>> now on booktv we want to introduce you to palmer rainout, professor of constitutional

history of hillsdale college and he is the author of this book, the bureaucrat kings: the origins and underpinnings of america's bureaucratic state. professor moreno, on page one of your book, you write, the united states is ruled by an establishment nowhere mentioned in the constitution. what does that mean. >> this is the so-called fourth branch of government, which is a combination of the other combinations the heart of the constitutional problem. the original constitution was founded on the basis of separation of powers come in the most important structural feature of the constitution. in the 20th century we developed an administrative apparatus, all these agencies. the environmental protection agency, federal communications commission. most of this really started with the new deal and they combined legislative, executive and judicial powers matteson caused

the essence of tyranny. that's the kind of problem we face. >> host: congress passes a law. president dined there. >> guest: congress passes a law. they don't legislate, they delegate. nobody has voted for it and are not in anyway accountabaccountab le. congress tells them you read the rules. a vague aspiration or no discrimination and railroad rates. those people who make the laws. but they make for the most part if it back and intervene in individual cases for their constituents get in trouble with these agencies called constituent service, which is much more help than them and getting a lack that and a lot easier than the higher job of making policy choices so much as they gain. the congress doesn't legislate but the fundamental

constitutional job. >> host: has to creep or the increase been explicit, implicit, has it been slow? >> guest: it is coming in waves, and quan said the scientists call it. the first burst of this is in the progressive era 100 years ago. woodrow wilson who is a political scientist before he was president had a theory about giving america a new style administrative state. the biggest threats came with the new deal with fdr after the great depression. periodically a reaction after those increases in governmental power. americans have second thoughts and usually some day in the conservative reaction. next was lyndon johnson and the obama administration has brought in the fourth wave with the affordable care act especially and the dodd-frank at and they

are qualitatively the development of an american state for much longer. >> host: professor moreno, how has this affected you and i and anyone else on an individual basis? >> guest: federal bearcat especially, but every team you do in life is the fact day by rules and anything that involves your health care now is increasingly dictated by the department of health and human services. if you want to apply for a job, they're all kinds of requirements and regulations. employers especially have to comply with all kinds of bread tape. the complianccomplianc e cost of satisfying federal regulators are growing exponentially. education, schools are increasingly being managed and

schools used to be the quintessential local institutions, the place where americans govern themselves in their schoolhouses. these are now dictated to by washington. every aspect of life now is being shaped by rules, effectively laws that are made and enforced by people who nobody knows. people they can't name, who aren't accountable to them. people who think they know how to manage the lives of ordinary americans better than ordinary americans themselves. >> host: you used the 1927 radioactive for an example. >> guest: hoover -- herbert hoover has gone down at the laissez-faire 19th 19th century american conservative is a progressive and the radio act which gave initially the federal radio commission the power to issue licenses to people. according to their sent a convenience and necessity.

they say whether the public needed a radio outlet in the locality. previously he don't get every license. radio you did. radio ended up being a more politically manipulable form of media bias newspapers. it was no accident the newspapers offer critical instances of the new deal. do i know that your license renewal is contingent on if you play ball the way the administration wants you to. it's an example of some of the political dangers to licensing in that way. trent >> has the size of the federal government wrong? >> not as much as you think. a number of personnel the

federal government has employed hasn't grown much since world war ii. mostly because the federal government gets the states to do most of its regulating. almost all federal regulatory programs for the federal government gives money to the states and the states have to comply with federal regulations of the states are administering these programs. people haven't noticed so much the growth of the federal government in terms of personnel being carried out through the agencies of the state and by getting institutions to higher officers whose full-time job with lawyers is making sure we are in compliance with federal regulations. the government has made the enforcement of this through both state and private parties. >> host: what is the role of the federal register? >> guest: that is the compilation of these regulations. it wasn't even started until 1935. when such a place where people go to see what regulations are.

it could be an important statute in three of four paragraphs. it is thousands of pages, tens of thousands of pages every year. i think the record was about 80,000 pages in one year back in the 1980s and we recently broke that record in 2015. 100,000 pages of federal regulations. the important thing about that is even those are the formerly published regulations that do so much just by an informal memorandum of understanding that are not published sort of subtle ways that don't leave any official footprints in the record. the federal register is just the tip of the iceberg. nobody could keep up with all of this. big companies have to hire people whose lawyers have to do with some specific aspect of their business.

>> interview, professor, the growth of the bureaucratic state as you call it could be attributed to congress. >> guest: their dereliction of duty, their unwillingness to do the hard job of legislators. they've taken the easy way out because their fundamental interest is in getting real life did and they find the current system increases their power. the delegation of legislative power is congress giving away its power is something so abrogating. congress were more powerful to stay in office under this new system. the house of representatives has an incumbency rate is higher than the house of lords. they have established a permanent class as well. in the 19th century when congress did its job, the concern then the congress is

concerned too much of the day-to-day administration of government. we've had problems on both ends of this is delegating too much power and micromanaging to match. it's a healthy balance in terms of congress being primary and not the overwhelming part of it. >> host: the book is called "the bureaucrat kings: the origins and underpinnings of america's bureaucratic state." paul moreno of hillsdale college is the author. >> these lovely director chairs chairs --