harder to write than i thought it would be in by the time i started the book i had been studying churchill for about 40 years. it takes that long i think, he wrote so very much and i've made the authors terrible mistake of thinking it would be relatively easy compared to other things i've written. its punch harder than i thought because when you start writing it down and you start trying to give an account of the main themes in his life, things that he stood for and he advocated or defended, turns out they relate to one another more deeply and more complexly than i had imagined. i came to understand them better i hope that it was a painful process. >> host: did you approach this book from a fans perspective? >> guest: well i am a scholar so i don't think i can write anything down that i can't defend but i do admire churchill very much.

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>> >> when he was about 20 of the joseph chamberlain a great man father of neville chamberlain, partner of is the father said that the young churchill's should go into politics. i don't think that i could never keep up with the pace of writing and speaking that would be required and look what he did. he made a lot of money.

he turndown enormous amount of stuff. he called them potboilers. but some of them are profound. i am teaching a eight class this term on contemporary george wells and c.s. lewis and those for people are very different people. to have something similar to say about modern times. end with mass effects of modern life to those standards of those people. >> yes he did have friends. he had some great young man friends that persisted through life there is a man

named reggie barnes that went to cuba with the churchill. and then to tell all of war office what was going on with the cuban people. and they became friends there. and they remained and correspondence. he was very close to what may and who wrote chariots of fire he was very learned and powerful. he did write to the say about him that is very much worth reading and he did good with chariots of fire but he would walk along and go to the liberal club and

use the of facility. he was a member of the carlton club to say excuse me, are you a member of this club? he said club? i thought this was a public convenience. he wrote a beautiful leslie about him. commenting about the wealthy that he pile that his treasury in the hearts of his friends. >> and he stayed with him 25 for 30 years. and the founder of "the financial times". there is one who was

churchill's h. and he gave him only hard jobs to do it anyways did the. his grandson is the of board toward the end of his life and he is the great historian of venice and the best tour guide of venice endeavors seen. >> host: looking back to the british people make the right decision to get rid of churchill as prime minister after world war two? >> i don't think so and he did not think so. he did give an explanation but he ran the campaign very hard. first of all, to lay down the strong implications.

and what he said was a socialist government realize the ultimate aims was out with the secret police. but to get done with their trying to get done. they were beat by a lot. in nearly one in the election of 15. he compared those old accounts occurrences of socialism to the bolsheviks that was the totalitarian thing of the day. so yes, i think it was a mistake but that party is not so much a socialist party as it was back then.

>> host: when he gave the iron curtain speech at westminster what was he doing? was he in the wilderness? >> he was. he only met harry truman once. but in the middle of the conference the votes were counted and they took over for him. with an enormous change that happened in world affairs between july 1945 and a february 1946 in the truman administration because that the decision that they thought they would stand up to contain the soviet union. and the fulton speech there is the part and a postscript

in the hand of harry truman. so please come. said he was there in a heartbeat and that turned out to be part of the plan by truman to be developed with churchill that is now the cold war. >> host: how many times did winston churchill spent in the wilderness road his career? >> oddly enough there was one dirty one -- 1931 through 1939 a shorter 145 through 51 then the rest were three years or under. that means the party is not empowered and it means you don't hold one of the

leading positions of your party if your party wins. but two of the word along. >> host: president larry arnn did your book you reprint his speech for 1946 i have now stated the two great dangers of war and tyranny. >> so churchill had a sophisticated understanding of politics. i read a lot of aristotle and to be how consistent that they thought about those political categories and there are six forms of government and are

categorized secondary the good rule of one person then tyranny is the worst. it is a rule in the interest of the rulers. and is all-powerful and aristotle with the of politics it is very worth reading, he describes what a time and passed to do to remain empower. with that previous chapter the peking that story that the young tyrant sends a messenger to say how have you stayed in power so long? he doesn't say anything but

he starts to lop off the heads of the tall stalks of grain and becomes back to say he didn't say anything but just did this and he said i know what that means. so churchill with a in the age of totalitarianism. it is certainly different in scale and intensity and he gives us explanation why that was possible with a mixture of science and ideology so we can deploy a more people and then gives tools for both. and the adn that we can take everything into human hands

to perfect it. churchill saw that early in his career and made his first warnings against socialism before the turn of the 20th century to come into parliament. and to beef afraid of for all his life he felt they were both transformed into more destructive forces by modern conditions. so your viewers should read darkness at noon. one of the few modern totalitarian states one is the view from the top. if you put the two books together you will see that the classical teaching for example, is say conversation

of a poet and a tyrant hero. and what emerges in the dialogue that he maoism miserable. it is in good to dominate other people. it does not bring happiness there is friction everywhere you can never turn your back. so the protagonist is one of the people of a photograph taken in petersburg of a ballerina of the bizarre mistress it is a very beautiful home but the germans put the leaders into fresh tattoo destabilize

russia. s.a. poisoned the scylla so they sat in there with the little desk like in school like lenin and stalin and then they make the list to kill people. the send people to kill devil. there is a photograph but they take a picture of all of them. by 1939, everyone that had not died of natural causes, stalin had killed. and one of the last arrested in his work of fiction dole

told book is an explanation why did they confess to crimes they had not committed knowing in public against a man that they hated and feared? why did they confess knowing they would be executed in a few days after was over? why? but that explains that the answer is not torture. the short explanation is they had done this to other people so the tyrant is caught in it also in a miserable way of living. and i will repeat founded in the utopian hopes and

founded in the power of modern science and those things are among the best today. >> host: you have a triangulation of reagan and thatcher and churchill. all done by the hillsdale along. -- alum. >> care at the college and done by one of the students in one is done by bruce wolfe he is doing frederick douglass right now. that the photograph that he gave you his card that was taken in that building standing right over there. >> host: the profile picture plaques the next sitting in the chair he looks like a million dollars use very handsome very striking it is a beautiful

photograph. and to own an original print i hunted down the man who owned that. i cannot get him to end i doubled his money it was moral obligation. , some of them heard frederick douglass talk and said don't you think that belongs here? laugh laugh and he is a photographer. so yes. so what you talk about our modern people they all had a connection with the college. in the middle are the

founders with washington and jefferson. in the front door the civil war people so the soldier statue done 1885 is an honor of the civil war and probably more or maybe in percentage terms but we were abraham lincoln people with christian abolitionists. so those three in the back garden statesman of the free government of our oldest building where the picture was taken dedicated on the fourth of july. that was the beautiful speech by the founder of the republican party with the lieutenant governor of michigan during the civil war in boston blair was the

governor so we are proud of that we think limited free constitutional government is the greatest political development. so we study all of that here. >> so what's the uniqueness of hillsdale college? been met we don't take any money direct or indirect. >> including student loans to make every transaction is voluntary. for most of the history that goes back through 1844 we think that is good because higher learning should be done by those who really want it. there's a lot of learning that is noble but the

highest kind is a sacrifice you really have to want to make that. that is unique not money from the government. added helped to found the party of lincoln and the civil war the rally to the country's wars had had a huge history department that is the largest apartment in the college right now. the colleges interested in the christian faith that is interesting because the college has always believed in civil and religious freedom is in the first line of our founding articles. so requires a faith statement to come here but all the other hand nearly everybody is a serious question. we have an honor code that

they demand respect. course you can argue but the institution does not feel to abandon the. so there is christianity and then character we think the moral character of a person is where the person lives and finally the subject matter of the college of those things of which we live our lives that are identified in the classical and medieval and renaissance literature or modern literature. the things that are good that there's nothing you can add to make them better. so that is what aristotle identifies as happiness that is the soul of acting in

accordance with virtue in that means all of the virtues and also with the ethics. the kids love it they've read the first book before they come here as they're freshman year. >> host: required parts been mike guess. send them the book. them the rest of the four years they come to understand that things like that need including the natural sciences which are very strong here. so those things make the college unique and also makes it seem killer as half the curriculum is the same for every kid. that means those who play in the nfl right now and three young men who recently clerk on the supreme court of the united states.

those six young men spend half the time steadying all the same stuff so when they get together with their friends they have a lot to talk about. >> host: when you became president what was going on with the college? >> guest: it is a fine college. just like it is now but not as good. [laughter] they were probably be occurring to the fact that there was trouble. your press secretary asked me and my predecessor was here 20 years. his marriage had broken up and his son and daughter-in-law were moving instead with him for a period of time and she took her life and left in note to say they were having an affair.

that was not a good. he retired and had to. i don't believe that he did but they were living in the house together but the college of course, could not his own judgment in the college-age men he could not continue so they're looking for a president one day. it was sad for george and his family and the woman who took her life. if it hadn't have happened that way i doubt they would have approached me i would not have approached the because i refuse them for a long time i did not want to talk about it. why would you want to be a college president? i was running the claremont institute that i helped to found and i am on the board at a wonderful place. people range arrested in the

things that i have been talking about in this conversation. the help to build the place, i was the president educated, friends, i did have a little -- a lot of kids to deal with. why would i want to leave that? especially because that they are figures of fun and so the chairman of the board i said most of my friends are faculty members why would i want to do that? said what they think about them he said but hillsdale is different vice said you really think so? i know some who teach there. but what baby stage of my that document perchance said they want you to come to do the job by said call but humor me ask for the

articles of incorporation and bylaws. said i will not do that. i don't want that job and he said huber be. they called it vice said woodies said that it? this sounded puzzled. i get them they are exceptional but i get these articles written by the people that i described in 1840. babied like the declaration of independence which i happen to love. i remember i was in my study in claremont california where it is warm and i had a shiver go through me. we'll get that. bois i flipped to the back yes. this place is old. had been here once but i had

forgotten. they showed me the memorial statue to when i was here i said you had a big part in the civil war. they said we did. i said why don't i know that? if you are any good at your job been beautifully snow to tell the that. so i see that and i think to myself maybe that would solve the problem. because people who are real smart and know their discipline better than you do cannot work for you. such to be in charge of anything learning from lincoln or churchill churchill, tuesday bolshevism could not have succeeded with the mass

effect on modern life. and what he said in the paragraph before they're trying to turn this into insect. but he did nature is more to tractable. those explosive variations are unpredictable with the glory of mankind if you can read that then you can say is a that is how you like to be governed? allies sought a way to do that this is about me it is about that. if you don't find that beautiful, what are you doing here? if you do, help be. so that is why i came here. >> host: select does the president of a college do?

>> everything else is trouble. [laughter] you pay for getting to do those things to be here monday morning they're all friends of mine very good at their job.