>> and i'm very pleased to

introduce chandra manning of the radcliffe institute for study at harvard university and not their what this cold war was over. a calf a wholly original play but it was like to escape slavery, how emancipation happened and how citizenship in the united states was transference. in "the wall street journal," mark smith plays the troubled refuge striking with a highly engaged narrative with this sobering ineptitude started the journey towards freedom. in her superb telling, we learn something valuable about the fragile chaotic major the coming of freedom and the dignity encouraging the people who secured it. please join me in welcoming chandra manning. [applause] >> thank you very much to love you for coming today. to tie you the truth, i'm a tiny bit surprised to see anybody with an election just three days

ago and an outcome that we know will make history going forward i wasn't quite sure if anybody would show up to listen to what happened 150 years ago, but i'm really glad he did because they think the story of this book really matters. it's a story of refugees at the center of american history. it's a story about success in value in how those things are often intertwined. there's a story about making and defining citizenship now once and for all that on an ongoing day in committee of and that they promise for which all of us bear some responsibility. what i want to do is talk about how the book came about, how i came to write it. i'll give you a glimpse into what it says. and i would like to have it but i hope this book achieves. i want to start by asking them if any of you have ever been to a psychodrama. do you know what it is? a psychodrama is an enormous painting, a circular painting.

one is the battle of gettysburg. the battle of gettysburg is 377 feet long and 42 feet high. imagine a football field including the field including the end zone 42 feet high and you walk in the middle of it and every inch is painted in intricate, exquisite, elaborate detail. they are overwhelming. they are impossible to enter gradually. you can only answer be a totally martian and once you do you're overwhelmed and you don't have to make sense of what you are seeing. you have to remain lost and disoriented for a good long time before you have any i'd be a what you're really looking. that is exactly how it felt to write this book. i really wasn't prepared for because it's my second thought. i thought it should have figured this book thing out by now and this would should be easy and straightforward and i was the only first thing i had rat when

i first got their day. it is a book which means it did go out of may 1st for. my first book was about what civil war soldiers thought about slavery and in the spring of 1865 and ended as a moment of tremendous promise and fluidity or race is inmates were concerned. it ended at a moment when the united states quickly passed three amendments to the united states constitution. the 13th amendment ending slavery, 14th expanded citizenship. every single one of those was a revolution. three of them pass in quick succession. to put that in perspective, the united states had only passed to amendments numbers since the bill of rights up to that point. so it was clearly a rich moment. what i wanted to know is how you get a you get a map on the 1896 plessy versus ferguson and jim

crow in the chain and race relations. that was about -- that was a question that i set out to an other one i began my second up. i'll warn you ahead of time i still don't have an answer to that question. i wish i knew. i doubt. but i haven't studied this book is that, "troubled refuge." i set out to write this book about citizenship and rights in the decades following emancipation. timing had everything to do with it because it was in about 2009, the 200th anniversary of abraham lincoln's birth canal immediately followed 2011-2015 and thanks to both of those things i received a lot of invitations to give talks about emancipation and citizenship and on the surface, though showed up and down the center of the play. there should've been easy taxicab, what i was working on. i should've woken up in the morning to woken up in the

morning to give them and i couldn't. but i quickly discovered was the emancipation and citizenship or two really different things and we really didn't understand either one of them very much. so i figured i better start between emancipation and citizenship and start with the basics. but the emancipation first feared where did it happen? where did people stop being slaves and start being something else? nearly half a million of them went through the process of exiting slavery in place is called contraband camps. contraband camps were essentially refugee camps that followed the union army throughout the civil war. alright, fine. at the contraband camps. nobody else seems to know too much about those. people usually get mental images that you like smuggled cigars.

sounds like a good place to start. the injured to reception of my book on emancipation citizenship takes place in contraband camp is to find camp is to find out something about contraband camp. deciding to do that was exactly like entering a psychodrama. it was into the middle of this enormous story and be totally overwhelmed by the details of what i was finding. the details of people's lives inside the refugee camps. i was overwhelmed by the particularity of men, women and children experiences and i could not find any kind of an analytical framework for narrative arc to make sense of them, put them in conversation with each other or put them into conversation with congress or the president or the larger story of how slavery ended. i was lost and it really stunk.

i also felt like the cyclorama because i kept going in circles. finally, a basket of eggs drove may 1st to a better distraction and then try an experiment. so was an episode that i came across involving women in north carolina. she put a basket of eggs into a canoe and she walked back to new 12 miles up the coast to the union army and deliver those thanks to general ambrose burnside and delivered herself and her children to freedom and that storage is stuck with me. and it's been a canoe the most fragile you could think of. it didn't take much to break an egg. if they are anything like my kid, and eggs would be broken in half a mile. how on earth is she going to get them to safety. how is she going to get the people to safety? i didn't know she could swim.

i couldn't make sense of this story. timing stepped in here, too. about the time the story wouldn't let go of my brain, my own kids were experiencing some pretty significant challenges and were undergoing some pretty intensive testing with bad. it came to pass that my oldest son has autism and that means a lot of things but it means something specific for this story. one has to do with how he perceived, how the perception works. and most of us come into a new place, we perceive from the general to the specific deity what inherited and so did i. and at first we were aware of feeling for. we know we are in a room away pretty quickly nowhere in a bookstore in a bookstore is a familiar place and so we are fine. we've been here before, not lately are not often. we know where we are and we are

safe and secure in waco about the business of what we do in a bookstore. and maybe eventually we fill in details. we start to notice the book we are looking over, but we noticed the big picture first. my son perceives in exactly the opposite order. totally unaware he's no more aware he's doing it then you are, that he begins at the very specific thing works out. so he walks into a place like this and depending where his eyes the first, maybe it would fall on, is this an end cap? maybe he would follow this and cap first and he would take into account every single book on the end cap. the pictures on the covers would register. you would notice the titles and eventually work out that there were three rows then send cubbies underneath and then he cubbies underneath the mandate of the hole and cap and it got a further in a little further, but for a very long time, most of the time he's disoriented.

he doesn't really know where he is in space. it feels overwhelming. it feels panicky and makes it super hard, but it also means you must always notices things that the rest of us miss. when he stares at them, it totally changes my world. so what if i look at these eggs the way my son what? what if i stop trying to see a big picture they fit in and start with the eggs and see what i notice that i had missed before. what i noticed were the eggs are probably what the woman had that day. i noticed the shakiness of the canoe and i noticed that she couldn't be an outcome to this story any more than i could. but all she could possibly know what the details of what that day brought her an enormous risk she faced and to decide to take one step and then another anyway. she made me see in a way i

hadn't before they to exit slavery was to go up against hard power with absolutely no assurance that such task, to look real threats right in the face to have no idea what would happen and to do it anyway. and that is what it felt like to leave slavery. and so, the first part of this book, "troubled refuge," tries to tell that story, the story of leaving slavery, of exiting the stage has been owned by another person and doing it in these places called contraband camps. i really want to emphasize that that woman helped me see and that is that everybody takes. that emancipation began in particular details of exactly where they were. i want to stare with just a paragraph or two from the first

contraband camp at portman road in virginia. as the story goes, coldplay concert at the tip of the peninsula formed by james in new york where there's about midway down with america got its name from the very grateful travelers who spent most of the 17th century guaranteed to make any landfall look like a refuge. it is in fact beautiful by the atlantic ocean and the chesapeake bay with sandy beaches and rocky outcroppings and the breeze that in a summer day brings cold relief. the roosters that once uttered it sure is given added a touch of luxury. certainly compared with a week in disease ridden 17th century ship, assessing like a haven or even a paradise. it had general benjamin butler playing oysters, but no water no matter how deep they doubt.

in the 1860s, u.s. soldiers sat out. they dug 900 feet into the ground without finding a job. finally they realized and in the end they gave out. without massive intervention direct each of portman route was neither helpful nor her minutes. no place can sustain life for long. so too was the case of silver contraband camp. the folks at a u.s. army installation of old point comfort of portman route but the first of many contraband camps for camps spread her of the union army went throughout the occupied south. they were the specific places in which emancipation began for half a million former slaves. contraband camps, black men, women and children sought refuge from the army -- sought refuge from slavery. they found it in the basic sense of escaping their owners that the environment both natural and

man-made encounter there made for troubled refuge. whether the commonwealth of virginia (-left-paren april 17, 1861, remained in the hands of the u.s. army and it was too that i made it to reinflate men ran on may 23rd of 1861 thereby make in themselves the business of one benjamin butler at portman road. belgrade is contraband decision into the last of the three men that ci and we will give both later in chapter three to accounting. the brief outline of sight this. frank baker and james had been put to work until they the better fortifications when they learned their owner plan to remove them further south to labor for the confederate army and separate them from their families. they decided to look at portman route. the colonel sent an agent that the slave law. but refused and colonel malory

had built a forest and armed rebellion against the united states. and so the rules of war confirmed authority to confiscate the three slaves as contraband property. in a stroke of about 30 slaveholders with the legal property of their owners to release owners to really slaves from the owner's crass and illustrated how work could create possibilities unavailable in peacetime. the phenomenon of the civil war contraband camp was born. wherever the union army went, tens of thousands of enslaved men, women and children made their way, brave and almost all the risks to get there. heavily armed search parties are union patriots who might shoot at the very sound of an unexpected facet. they defied the threats of their masters who swore that if a slave ran to hunt them down he would stone them and father children. so they came. so they found work with a code.

still they aided the union army when and where they were able then begin the long journey from slavery to freedom. so part 1 of the book tells the stories, tells the stories of the journey from slavery to freedom literally and the stories of people who made that journey and contraband camps in the east, which tended to establish themselves early in the war in 1861 and stay put. you might think of a landscape painting. it also tells stories of camps in the west. camps in the last if you want to think of a kaleidoscope because the army moved more than the last. camps are on the way all along rivers and wetlands throughout the west and in the east and west come a day in and day out, men, women and children had to build a path out of slavery into something they hoped would be freedom. i love part 1 because chapters one and two of this book does

tell their stories and i will tell you just one of them. there are a lot of them and i will tell you one because we could use it today. one of my favorites takes place on an island in the mississippi river near memphis. it found itself in 1864 but this mass of people and she doesn't recognize anybody. it's confusing and overwhelming until suddenly she hears a voice that sounds familiar but she hasn't heard the voice of 15 or so cannot possibly be who she thinks it is? she turns around and it's exactly who she thinks it is. it's her sister. she hasn't seen her sister in 15 years. her sister was sold 15 years ago. her sister was sold because the two young boys have been sold away and the sister was screaming and crying so hard she was thought to be not that her labor anymore. she would not stop grieving for

those boys. the women in the sister reunited and for a few minutes they could name is deep they were so overcome. but there is more good news because the boys were in the camp, too. those stories repeated over and over again and so are some other ones that are quite so wonderful. the story of a woman who followed sherman's army through the carolinas, made at sinai to freedom and then collapsed and died of exhaustion alone in by herself. each of those stories is like a little vignette on the wall of the psychodrama. in the first couple chapters they take you right up to the wall and try to let you see each of those stories that really understand each of them at the own self. but if we stopped there, if we just told the stories would never move into the middle and figure out the meaning of the whole transcending sum of its parts might be.

or it's two in of the book try to come to an understanding of what all of these stories add up to together. and what they add up to is a story of how formerly powerless and stateless people built alliances with the union army and the united states government and contraband camp. the alliances were uneven, and perfect. they did not achieve everything former slaves hoped they would. but those alliance helped to destroy slavery and they redefined the relationship between the individual and the national government in the united states. they redefined the citizenship and not just for themselves, but for all americans. parts two and three of this book tell that story and they hinge on two central insights. the first is the risk of reinflate men was very high and it remains very high throughout

and even after the war and now it's one of the things that most surprised me. the second insight to parts two and three hinge on is the civil war was a refugee crisis. civil war emancipation was a refugee crisis. the first one, reinflate men. most wars and world history make more slaves, not fewer. i want that sink in for a moment because we're so used to the fact the civil war ended slavery. we forget how likely it was no such thing would've happened at all not because they didn't relent in because that's what wars usually do. the usually make more slaves. this one and then with the institution of slavery in the united states. it was not inevitable that it would do so and the story of how it did was much more complicated than we thought we don't understand it at all until he look what is going on in these camps between former slaves and

the union army. chapter three of this book tells that story. the second central insight, the emancipation was a refugee crisis. hopes to see and understand things more clearly. one is what conditions were like in this refugee camps, the conditions of slavery were really like for many people who accepted slavery and the closest thing we've got a refugee camps today. they are not places and if you would want to be and today we have a red cross. we have the u.n. and there were no such things in the 1850s. understanding emancipation is a refugee crisis really like texture to the story but it was like. understanding emancipation as a refugee crisis also romance has been encountered in u.s. history before. we have not always done everything right, but refugees are a part of the american story. they are central to who we are.

third, understanding emancipation is a refugee crisis obsessive statelessness of the emancipated at the moment of their emancipation and that's important because to be statelessness to be uniquely vulnerable. people who study world war ii taught me the refugees are most vulnerable without passports because you do not have the protection of the national government. that is exactly where these farmers is found themselves at the moment that they like slavery. the things they wanted out of freedom are the things they always wanted. they wanted an economy for themselves and their communities to care for the people they cared about. slaveholders that had the power to deny them. and the 1860s, slaveholders did not suddenly change their mind and decide former slaves were entitled to these things after all.

but what happened with former slaves had access to a source of power that could overcome slaveholders. the source of power was the union army and so the former slaves got themselves to the service of power and allied with the union army. they dug ditches. they did laundry. they nursed in hospitals. they built fortifications. they did the million and two things it takes to keep the 19th century army in the field and in motion. and when they did, they staked a stronger claim to the protection of the union army and national government than a slaveholder trying to overthrow the national government code. they change citizenship in a these three ways. first of all before the war and not the national government that adjudicative citizenship and it changed it because of what happened in this camps. second of all, citizenship during the war was no longer limited by race and that happened because of what went on in civil war contraband camps.

finally, as a result of the civil war, citizenship involved with the protection and the way it really had not before the war and that have been partly because of what went on in civil war contraband camps. to recap part 2 of the book, tell us a story of former slaves aligned with the union army and the war to bring slavery and redefined citizenship which sounds like the end. you guys can tell me there's three parts of this book. it is not the end because as it turns out, it neither ending slavery by redefining citizenship turned out to be 1 cent for all kinds of tests. part 3 of this book is about early efforts to translate the alliance between former slaves in the union army and national government into a peacetime appliance and that translation resulted in the 14th amendment which is also an imperfect

market. for that to end today with a couple of thought on exactly what it is i hope this book will achieve. i would like it to help -- i would like it too late to a deeper understanding of what it was who would like to add a slavery ,-com,-com ma to go from being a slave to not being a slave. i would like to make it impossible to ignore exactly how the threat of reinflate no bias and how long the risk lasted. but like it too late to an understanding of how former slaves did not include saved women and children, both of harlem for the union army, how they helped win the war and end slavery, but also redefined citizenship for everybody and not just themselves. i would like it if they spoke at length an appreciation for the success and failure bound up in all of those things. none of those things come in the ending is daybreak on the winning of the work of the war, redefining the citizenship was wholly triumphant.

sometimes structural forces are just a huge overpowering destruction of war and sometimes people just played one now. the abolition of slavery was one of the most revolutionary thing ever to happen in the united states, but it was also agile and reversible. our job is not to celebrate it with empty triumphalism or to school for shortcomings. our job is to protect it because it remains fragile even today. finally, i would like this book to instill appreciate that the definition of citizenship as a non-going project. sometimes citizenship sometimes shrinks. that is true in every area, including our own. so defining citizenship, giving it the name and peoples lives is not just a job for people who lived through the war. it is our job every day. thank you.

[applause] i would love to take any questions. in the back because you're closer to the microphone. you are next. >> am curious how much if any direction union field commanders had about dealing with these situations where they are just kind of weight unit. >> that is a long and complicated story which in chapter three of chapter four, was their direction? yes. was it clear and straightforward? no. the direction comes almost immediately but dennis added onto the snow fashion as war unfolds. butler makes his contraband decision in may 1861 on the war department immediately endorses

and says yes you did the right thing and other commanders do the same thing. the student says waves back. but then august 8th to expand the endorsement with some instructions from the war department. they have two parts. one says they do not send slaves back, but it also says soldiers do not entice players to come into camp in the first place and the reason is because slavery should be adjudicated by civil and not military authority. who is and is not a slave is this decision is civil authorities, not military officers. one of the concerns central to this story that we message about what the relationship between civil and military should be. the unraveling of slavery trips over the relationship all the time. disorders come out. you've got commanders seemed part a or part b. theater focus on don't send them

back and those are the ones that open arms or you have other commanders to focus on part b,.entice them in the first place and do their best to keep them out. if you are the middle of tennessee or arkansas, you have no idea which guy you're going to get. the risk to you is acute throughout the war. and then there were as the war went on. they came to an out of state than ambiguous. >> hi, you mentioned that it's unusual to have three amendments to the constitution passed so quickly. did the former confederate states vote on matters such as the northern states? >> that is a sort of complicated history as well. the 13th amendment is passed before us back in the year before former confederate states are back in the union and ratification becomes a condition for entering the union. if you want back in time you've got to ratify the 13th.

and then the 14th in the 14th in the 15th of the stories on exactly the same, but it is similar. those are in fact ratified by most of the confederate states. some hold out for much, much longer. the ratified under distress -- darius, sorry. yes, sir. >> i'm wondering after the political argument started, how was the story of the contraband camp, how does that impact the argument and debate? did the field commanders suddenly argue for the amendments or something like that? >> the army is absolutely behind the 13th amendment ending than the 14th amendment. the 15th amendment, soldiers have gone home so it's hard to get their voices in aggregate. they are behind the 13th and

14th amendment. the reason is twofold. one, baby and in the state of the confederacy, they become utterly convinced slavery started this war in the first place. if you want to win this war and keep it one, you've got to rip it out by the roots and make sure it can never come back again and you need a constitutional amendment. and then the 14th amendment because even after the passage of the 13th amendment, the threats real risk is not the institution -- reinstitution of illegal slavery. certainly connections like it remains strong and so part of what the 14th amendment was about a securing the 13th amendment. it's much harder to reinflate. the other thing that the 14th amendment does and they help the

republican party, the party of the union of a constituency in the former confederate states because the former slaves if they are voting, the hope is that they would be able to build a republican party into this out. >> your first big book was about soldiers and camps. this is about contraband camps. how did you get from the first topic to the second topic and if i'm not asking too much, what might be next? >> question may and question be. it is much easier for me to see and ranchers at the relationship between the two books and it was at the time but now it seems so obvious. not from a camp standpoint, but

from what things look like in 1865 in the years immediately following the war. those three amendments are much more fluid political climates than anyone really would've thought was coming in 1861 and i really began by wanting to know how you get from not to the 1890s and early part of the 20th century, piscean segregation of what's happened in the interim. not just years later, but immediately after that decade after the war. that was the first question i begin with, but i discovered i didn't know enough to answer that question so i had to go back and look of our freedom began and that put me back to soldiers. i do find some of the same guys i saw the first time i now see again, but in looking at them from the other angle, which was an experience. that is the relationship between book one in book two. what is next? i don't know.

i jokingly said an assay about not having about to write right now. i was kidding, but so many people told me to read it. an assay about living in suspense, about living without it clear story line right now. writing this book gave me an appreciation for those moments in between ms. if i could write anything, it probably write about baseball because they need a break. even i don't know what i would say right now. >> can you talk a little bit about what actually happened to the former slaves that led to camps after the war was over in what happens specifically to those camps? did they go back where they came? did they stay put? how welcoming was the community that surrounded them? !

initially to be honest but i really wanted to do is click full decade after the war and follow where people went. i ran out of steam, but also the story of the war itself is so much more to it than i thought that they became separate stories for me anyways. what happens to them, some of the camps they and you would recognize them now as, for example, arlington national cemetery. friedmans village on the estate of robert e. the visit contraband camp during the civil war. and the last the inhabitants of friedmans village differs to arlington cemetery, that became arlington cemetery. today is a very moving place for lots and lots of reasons, but one particular one is if you go to section 37, there is her last euro that says on its use in

common citizen, citizen. free people from friedmans village who died and were buried in arlington cemetery. so that's dave thomas at the turn of the 20th century. others in urban areas become neighborhoods, they say african-american decades after the war. i do not it becomes less advantageous to have a bunch of former slaves, home. is it not be said and changed that it isn't a lobbyist after the war. some of that happening as people leave. they hit the road here they try and find their loved ones they haven't seen in 20 years. after the lawyer, the enemy

supplies are read gathered, so some of them are kind of left to their own devices. the story of what happens after if any other part of the story. the summer of 1862 in particular of ulysses s. grant gets the idea that there is a labor shortage. i've got a bunch of people here that could really use something to do. they make me feel vulnerable. at government expense, he organizes the transportation of former slaves and camps along the mississippi river up into the states of the midwest. he did this with lincoln's blessing weeks before the midterm election of 1862 which

is one of the few politically astute and fabricated. you know how the elections of 1862 went, but the midterm elections to which this former slaves were sent did not go well for the republican party. there's empty and they enact an illinois and might've thought getting out of slavery i'm on board with that, but there is a lot of that in 1862. so after that, rather than the government doing it, they would send former slaves and often better than what remains i need to not pass. >> i have a question about your sources. how did you find these stories? like where they written -- where did you find this story about the eggs?

>> i could talk about this all day. the sources are super question because the first book i wrote was about union and confederate soldiers and the services they receive. you read it and they tell you what they thought. that was pretty straightforward. the people interested in it this time don't write and most of them don't read. finding it was a very different process. one of the beauties of both the army and the federal government is that they wrote everything down. so using more records in government records and ways the makers of the records never addition to rent tended opens up all kinds to the world these people lived in. i give you a couple examples. one are quartermasters records in charge of essentially logistics. the quartermasters records for the union army will list the by,

new russians are coming into and going out of a particular camp. if there is a sudden big huge job at once i know some people came to the camp. the records of who is on ship going up and down the mississippi river, same thing. it attacks through little bitty pieces like that. there are some in the national archive listing the names of people who are contracted to work for the government and the union army. and i could find those names and sometimes i can trace those names that to prewar plantation records and find things that way. i'm a very, very favorite source of evidence are essentially transcripts because former slaves testified and they testified in the martial law cores with the union army was,

one a difference between martial law and civil law was the testimony of african-americans is expected for good reason. they want a union to win. so their testimony, the transcription of testimony is fantastic and there's also this thing called the american friedmans inquiry position and it was authorized by the secretary of war and congress and consisted of people who travel to contraband camps and report on conditions there and they did it by interviewing people and making transcriptions of the interviews. soldiers and generals, but also former slaves. those are fantastic. thousands written on a microphone, but handwritten. there are a lot of missionaries and people go from their churches and right back with ac and who they encounter in what they are doing.

there are some former slaves who can read and write. born a slave in savanna, georgia i think and she makes her way to camp here she writes her life story later and pension records after the war. when black men joined the union army and their later years, they are entitled to a pension or if they die, so are their survivors. firmly to get attention you have to produce a birth certificate, marriage certificate, that kind of thing. people who are enslaved at that time don't have that so what they do is set up a pension file so that's another source. those records you kind of have to read between but that's hopefully bright side. yes, sir. and the ministers are infinitely interested in everything you have to say about religion. say more about that, more about that.

religion, say more about that. >> first thing i should say about that is he will be delighted to know there is a young woman named abby cooper writing a book about religion and contraband camps. and so i don't know where she is not in the process, but it is say a year or two out. look for the book when it comes out. it is in this book in this and not obvious ways. union soldiers are really quite fascinated with the question of former slaves and religion. they are fascinated about the ways that former slaves back to us, but also they are fascinated fascinated -- advanced look at this i'm not the way. they are fascinated by what they see as the gap between former slaves fervency in some matters of religion and what they see as their lack of fervency and particularly family relationships, reproductive habits and things like those. there's an unseemly amount of

commentary on the childbearing hobbit the knowledge that of enslaved women. the reason there is so much is because they can't figure out how people who are so eerily religious seem not to take those commandments so seriously. there's not a great deal about it wonder what about conditions under slavery with nate to standards to which white middle-class people could hold themselves i'm reachable. there's not a lot of that kind of commentary. that is the sort of unseemly side of the question. but i will say that the soldiers and people who can't promote their churches and the american missionary association or start by expression. i think we should be struck by it, too because we know that most or many slaves under

slavery are christian, but i think we have visions of their christianity circumscribed by onerous than by white people and they might sit on their own balcony but not being able to gather and so i am not sure that we recognize the degree of the truly unique form of expression that does come out in these camps. in south carolina and probably elsewhere, but i saw the most of evidence out carolina. women at the age of 15 become relators among religious communities. if you want to get anywhere but the whole community, you have to figure out who is seen as the spiritual leader among the women and that's how you get anywhere. they say one man from massachusetts and she wants to start a school. she comes down to the school. there's no question about that. they are not sure about where. so here it intercepted and peggy

is the leader of the women's pair circle. so she befriends and peggy. and peggy takes a while to take her mind off, but when she does come everybody comes to the school, so there is definitely an autonomous community, a faith community among former slaves. finally, i think it takes a great deal of faith to do with some of these people did to pitcher kids in a canoe and go up the coast. you have to have belief in something you can't see in order to do that. one woman put a finger right on it. they ask her one point, you were told terrible stories about what would happen to you if you came to us. by what she do it anyway? the answer is i knew you couldn't take me anywhere jesus was sent. i think that soars -- i don't

think we can understand so many have been without an appreciation for the source. anybody else? >> couple questions about the amendments. the 13th amendment by the states that remain in the union but didn't the union government not really recognize, wasn't it just convenient to just ask the northern states to ratify it? >> the understanding is illegal you can't do it, but so is murder and murder happens anyway. so once the war is over in confederate are conveniently asked for a while, then congress can pass the amendment and it does. it actually happens pretty early. but to get back into the union, a condition of being admitted into the union. i mean representation in congress. i mean civil rather than

military authority. an order for that to happen, states are required to ratify the 13th amendment. [inaudible] >> welcome others' argument about whether they have revert to it or not. they were treated almost as territories under the period immediately following the war before they are admitted back into the union. they are part of the united states and as soon as they can tell us that they are capable state government that is combat game. the way they show us their loyal as they ratify. [inaudible] >> the 14th was that to cure some of that. [inaudible]

>> the 15th was to secure the problems because the 14th amendment does not include a vision for voting. as i said, citizenship is not going process. we think citizenship and voting, but those are two different things for most of u.s. history up to that point. the 14th amendment doesn't automatically include the right to vote. they pass the amendment would lead to the right to vote. the voting had also always been a state matter. so there is a surrogate tricky mechanism in the 14th amendment that spammers would help encourage states to extend the franchise to black men on their own accord and make that happen on a state level and not the national level. doubtless representation within congress but the function not of population, but is voting. the hope was that georgia or whatever would want our

representatives in congress and said the way to get them was in franchise 50% of the population. and they said not to. so once it's clear that confederate states will probably forgo representation rather than pass their own accord, that is when the 15th amendment. as i was saying before, it would give them a constituency. >> slaves -- [inaudible] >> they were never counted as three fifths compromise. representation in congress is a function for the southern states as a function of all the way population and three fifths of the black population. but that did was give southern

states massive over representation in congress because of course the entries are not represented in congress. so yeah, that is going out once the war has been spirit over representation was a mass in the first place, so that is going out. if you want representation in congress, you have to show us that the interest of average that he and billy former slaves are represented and you do that by franchising voters. what they do first is to press representation they don't energize black voters. the 15th amendment is back up because everybody counts for voting. does that make sense? thank you very much, all of you.

[applause] >> codecs they thank you to chandra for being here and also remind everyone or anybody who came in late the books are available in a 20% off today in the signing will be right here in just a moment. thank you for being here. [inaudible conversations] >> next we speak with -- [inaudible] >> the premise of the book was both simple and complex. let it tell you how it started. i was doing fieldwork in central

mexico about 16 kilometers and a brand-new urbanizing area where you had 10,000 people moving day or per month. i've always been interested in the two basic questions. one, how do people manage to survive when they shouldn't? do, how to excel when they shouldn't be able to do that either? and i've always been trying to touch those questions regardless of where the fieldwork was. in this particular case as this came almost a serendipity. i was asked by the guy who's phone i would say not for a loan of 100 vessels. he says what is that? what we do as we get 10 people together and each one post than 100 vessels and we take turns over a period of 10 turns in each one gets 90 vessels and the other people who remain in the

circle, it's kind of like a landing circle, putting back in 100 vessels. when your turn comes along, you get 900 vessels as i said to myself, how does that work? i knew what it biased, but he explained that as a mutual trust. the people who participate are basically people who trust each other. i asked the basic question, how do you avoid people just getting the money and taking off? he says it's a matter of trust built on social relationship, which has a which was a nice handy sociological kind of argument. the more it delved into it, the more i then understood that they are also convene a hand in fact these are savings and credit associations that area as they study them over 25, 30 years end.

i'm not between 1000 pesos over 10% to $45,000. let's say of one extreme you have one that is basically made up of 10 people, each one putting in $25,000 every three. so every three months, the other person to participate in this, let's say there's 10 of them, they will be collecting $225,000 they will keep putting it back in. over a period of 30 months. will use the money for investment or you say, for example, to take care whatever expenses you have. a lot of mexican restaurants, for example. the other extreme that could be someone who uses in mexico city company uses a hundred vessels, buys a big box of queen asked,

sells a box of kleenex and therefore makes 900 pesos. it could be used for that. it could also be used for ritual applications. density relationships, making sure he can meet your obligations. mexicans have a ritual cycle that begins at christmas to buy debate easter, but in between christmas and easter, there's a whole bunch of other punctuating kind of ritual celebration including weddings ,-com,-com ma funerals, baptisms, confirmations. all of these punctuating event that needs some kind of gift. what happens if the people then will time their turn in order to meet one of these many social obligations. back in and of itself creates even more dense to be in the network itself. every time you give a gift, you will receive one that some other time because one of your children's birthdays is coming up. so the collateral is can't

really being reinforced and expanded as well because new people are coming in. if you don't know somebody, what you do is you land your stepdad. that is, you lender on collateral of the individual is then obligated to make sure they meet your obligation. along that line, you have to understand as i looked out 135 of these things, these are truly transborder. the rate in which people didn't pay was .005%. so it's better to participate, especially one of the major banks was recently caught expanding their service to a whole bunch of people that did mean it. people don't put their money into a bank and for a lot of

reasons, number one, banks ask a lot of questions. if you're a poor person for person of modest income and you don't have a lot of collateral and you don't have a lot of credit, and this is the way to get around that encourages state and sent aid that is guaranteed. the bank asks you to fill out form after form about your own personal identity, i.e. a highly individualized and individuated kind of transaction between you and us being called a bank. ..

>> >> there is a lot of stereotypes and in negative information as wall that diabolical ratio is conflict especially in this region. and being treated different how you look or what you speak the is even being used now during the presidential elections