and today not only do i care to count to a really great author of the new book made and shown, but lisa and i go way back to the 80s when i worked together at a tv station in north carolina. we are reconnecting with me asking questions of her which might make her slightly nihilistic that i know she knows the answer to every single question that i'm going to ask her home today because she

researched this book for five years. thank you for being here with me. we are so happy to have you. her first book was radio shangri-la, which i love the fact that they have a gna, national happiness. we are glad you're here to talk about your new book ray and joe and his third and final ways. the story is so compelling in so many ways. i think we need to go back to the beginning a little bit here because mcdonald's is huge. it's ubiquitous. it is everywhere but it has some modest beginning in the little town in california with a couple of brothers. when you started researching, that take you where? >> san bernardino, california

which is a small town and yes it is two brothers who came from new hampshire she can't know yet if the weather in new hampshire to california and the tony's, but they wanted to make their way in the movie industry like a lot of people did and still do today. and mac mcdonald made their way west and they found out very quickly as many people do that it's hard to make it in the movie industry, so they wound up starting in orange juice and hot dog stand. the orange shoes and hot dog stand lead them to open a rib restaurant and then they decided they are having a hard time. if anybody remembers the era of crop. they would serve you to your car at a time in america when people are falling in love with the car appeared suburbs are being built, both have been built for

the first time in the brothers had a hard time employing dishwashers and carhartt who attracted boys which met shenanigans in the parking lot. classes got broken so the reds were hard to make sedation down and decided to pare down their menu to just about 10 items and that included hamburgers and milkshakes and french fries. they are terrific formula for making the french fries. at first people in san bernardino with a move to restaurant were upset because they liked the carhartt service. it didn't take long before people fell in love with the expeditious surveys and the good food and it was cheap food, too. a whole meal for 40 fax p. about three mcdonald's really began in the desert of california. there was the mcdonald

brothers. ironically no. so that was the very beginning and it became quite popular. they became sort of wealthy for that day. >> they were working as hard as anybody in the restaurant business advertise which is scary. they split their shares. they worked until 11:00 at night. he felt really lucky because they were able to buy a new cadillac every year. they route to upgrade their cadillac every year. one was married, neither had kids. they live together in a house on the hill and they were just happy. they were tired that they are happy with what they were making. $100,000 is profit center is to appear in >> in the early 50s that was a lot of money. other people started becoming

interesting so they disenfranchised insert. they found the trade magazine read about the speedy system they had an basically they put the hamburger and the assembly line. they figured out a way to move the production of food very quickly how very quickly out to you the customer in under 10 seconds that she placed an order. really, really quick. putting the hamburger in the assembly line was scraped and other people across america for opening hamburger stands, looking to be entrepreneurial small-business people, small businessmen. so san bernardino became after. people will flock there and stand outside. i left out an important detail that the first thing donalds was in class so you can see in the restaurant which now we see it all the time but it was revolutionary. what was so exciting that so these people would show up and

want to steal this idea for this donalds. they saw these people sketchy. we could sell this formula. they put it in the manual and sold the idea. they didn't even really want to sell their name. too bad that didn't make any sense. why would you want to use the donalds on your restaurant. but they did, people dead and for $950 he got to buy the blueprints for the donald's, which included the golden arches which eventually became ubiquitous. >> what a bargain another look at it in 2016. i was to be getting now. now you have other mcdonald's starting to pop up in various places. they were more interested in what they were doing in san bernardino. >> they had other offers to people who wanted to take the idea and national, but they are pragmatic. they knew how hard they were working but they didn't want to

invest time and energy going state to state in floating around. there were doing just fine. >> geographically lets move to the midwest and talk about a man named ray crockett was doing his thing at the time but was pretty much match regular. hardcharging sales guy and you bring him into the picture. give us an idea. >> ray kroc was an old car salesman. he had been selling paper cup since he was a young man. he then did not work from the multi-mixer and that the smoke machine mixer that alert you to do six at a time, six and five at a time which was revolutionary technology as the paper cup was in the paper cup was invested. he just loves being on the road.

he loves to eat this up for sale. you like to figure out what made she want what he was selling. he was just a larger-than-life personality. so with this milkshake machine, that's how we encountered the brothers. so he's not selling this milkshake machine and he hears about this and it allows operation in california. he goes there and what you think happened? >> mcdonald's brothers knew him as mr. multi-mixer because they've got multi-mixers peered ray was intrigued by why would one little store needs so many of these multi-mixer machines. you'd think by now i'd be able to say it. so he went there to say about hearing they're happy to meet him because he sold them the very important piece of equipment to help drink

milkshakes until you came up and needed vanilla. i was very helpful to their system. they met ray and ray was dazzled. he describes it in his autobiography as if he was describing falling in love because it was so perfect to him. he'd seen a lot of drug store counters, restaurants and the system is so beautiful he is so fall in love with the efficiency but the cleanliness. he was a neat freak. he was very happy to see this and wanted to figure out how to propagated across the lands because in his mind the more mcdonald's for more milkshake machines that would be sold. they started with milkshakes for him. he really did. so he sells them on this milkshake machines. at what point he what point to decide this needs to go they can have to admit this scope it?

>> when he first laid eyes on the mcdonald's operation. although people were there sketching and trying to rip off the idea are more politely emulate it. but i decided you didn't want to see ... eat that night went for dinner with dad and said please let me franchise. they were elected. they had a franchise nation working on their behalf who was ill, who became ill but long after ray entered the picture. the stars aligned and basically said if you want to do it, no skin off our back. go ahead and do it. his first franchise opening was into playing, illinois not far from where he lived in chicago and that is a mcdonald's that if you go to mcdonald's corporate to consider that the first opening of the make donalds in the united states. >> it looks like a museum. isn't it donald's functioning

across the parking lot but it looks like it did in the old days. >> that would be the original store. was he successful after that? >> uis. devising a plan as quickly as you might think a part of that is because other people are opening their own hamburger stands without the franchise. but it was hard. hard to sell something like that. but he was doing okay. he was a couple years in when he went to st. paul, minnesota which is where our story takes a turn for the romantic. >> now we start to get into the park here. let's back up a little bit and tell us a little bit about who'd shown as before she met ray kroc. >> so joan was 26 years younger.

ray was 52 at that point. john was in her 20s. she was a young mother. she was a beautiful, blonde woman and she was a very skilled pianist and organist. back in the day that was a very valued profession. people would play in restaurants, which she did. she played on television, local television. she was so beautiful that the local tv owner -- she also had a really good concerned some of my friends, music lessons to kids. so she was working hard with these three jobs, but the job she loved was that the criterion restaurant in st. paul, minnesota where she would play the organ or piano. >> but. she put the organ in the dining room and after dinner hour issue with her to the match where she played you know.

>> so now take us back to that evening. keep in mind when he is married. he is a child at home. >> she's out of the house, they cannot. >> joan is married with a child at home. so now she's doing her thing, playing the piano and ray walks in. ray has been selling for two years in 1957 and he walked in and was there to sell the owner of the restaurant a franchise. ps ready to come. he never got the milkshake machine mixer. by the new rate because of that. they came in to have a dinner meeting and sure enough he was waylaid by this beautiful woman played the organ. not only was he a track day to her youthful good looks, that he himself was a pianist.

he had made money early on in his life and left playing piano. so you is taken by not just her looks better technical musical proficiency. i was an intoxicating thing for him. >> did they meet at night? did he get give introducer how'd that happen? >> best i can tell from talking to people about to people at what ray says in his autobiography which if you take a couple grains of salt. he demanded to meet her. and he went over and said hello. the extent of the conversation was it's never been completely clear. even john's daughter was there that night, too. her father came with her to pick john up after work but it's not entirely clear the depths of the conversation. what happens next suggesting that it had more to it than just

this quick interaction, which is that joan bought the franchise. he opened store number 93 in minnesota and hired jones has been to manage it. so there is a spark that night, but it's still a while before it's officially rated show on the eve of their lives may have been on separate paths to continue to connect in ways. give us an idea what happened after that. >> is important to point out in 1957 and in several years forward, mcdonald's was not successful for the corporation. for the people who open franchises, it was very lucrative and they were paid 1.9% loyalty to the make donalds corp. of which half a percent was going to submit donalds brothers and that wasn't enough to keep the corporation growing at the rate that it needed to

and helping corporate polices standards from store to store. ray was under a lot of pressure because he was growing the company and hiring people who are helpful to him. in several cases they were enormously helpful. it was a difficult time because other people are starting to franchise. mcdonald's had not invented franchising. they came up with a particular formula that works for them. the stories were doing great and donalds was becoming a nationally known brand. they were investing in advertising. local operators really understood the power of advertising, but they were bankruptcy. >> with bad intent consideration, what happens to get the relationship found between jonah and right who

obviously felt something that night. but it would be several more years before they got married. we need to fill in the gap between what happened in that night and when they did get married. >> jones has been a soak at managing the donalds in st. louis park, minnesota that he got a large bonus. a $10,000 bonus which is incredible sum of money. he took that money and planet back into the old mcdonald's. at that time as it relates to the beautiful place, to open the make donald you had to go where the opportunity was. joan and her husband were told they had two choices of where to go if they wanted to open their own franchise. one was in allentown, pennsylvania and the other was in rapid city, south dakota. since while he was from that part of the world they chose

rapid city, south dakota. so off shown and rally and they have doubted that with extremely little money in their pocket and grand ambition that if they were able to the openness that donald, then maybe their family finances at family finances to be on a better footing themselves think that's exactly what they did. join at that point was not allowed to work in the donalds. that was an edict from the mcdonald's brothers. not just ray. so when they got to rapid city oversaw the construction of a set of golden arches on main street and started ordering all of the food came locally. it was all sourced locally. it wasn't hauled in on a chart because faith is very committed to keeping the food local and the standards of that meant to be cap death. life in south dakota where jonah

is working behind the scenes and is doing a lot of really important things at the time a lot of women did that and maybe didn't get all the credit for it. she clearly had some sense of business. >> yes, she was very sure. >> how they cross paths? i believe they were married three times. when he and chung get married and i am sure if that had some level of entry. give us an idea of what happens before they eventually come together. >> at that moment in time in the 60s, they were both very committed to the donald from a different give. he joined her, rally. and they of course have seen this huge company which is important to point out and then who is key and critical and coming up with the formulas that

help to make donalds get on good sound footing which was to own the underlying real estate of the night donalds. he was the real business minded person going into different communities and helping convince people who owned the land. it's hard to imagine just how blatant the landscape was then because it's different than it is now. these are people that there is very little else going on. so here it went dead and helped negotiate end quote said broker deals with real estate owners. ray was matched by the hamburger guy bryce harry was much more the finance guy. so that is going on while jonas helping her husband but they continue to somehow be involved with each other in an issuer that has something to do with one of ray's early hires who was

a world war ii pilot who owned a little fast and ray and harry and june 19 who is currently on third and to grow, super and new growth, although their boat ended up living in florida. i won't go too far ahead. that really make donalds core team would fly around the country and the cobra head for the churches in the schools and identify parcels of land. somewhere along the way ray was stopping off in rapid city and shown by seeing him somewhere. so i relationship evolved. he was desperate to marry her. she almost married him in 1961. he married someone else. he divorced his first wife and married someone else. tonight to 65 by mcdonald's for public and they became enormously wealthy as the people

close to, that was when he was married to his second wife. so john was still in rapid city when ray headlights flooded during the ipo of mcdonald's and became instantly worried $33 million on paper. which is huge. >> we will race forward. you have to read the book from 1965-it to 69 which is a credit the year because that's the year they finally get married. what kind of wedding was that? they are both divorced. the big wedding or little small thing? >> very quick and small and was at the jay and r. which was a spectacular ranch property they read about right after he struck it rich at 1965 in part because all of a sudden he was extremely wealthy and that was a beautiful piece of property but that is where he had ordered what became known as the cross foundation.

it was a little bit of a ruckus room from the donalds folks and their retreat for ray and jay and his second wife. when he divorced his second wife in order to marry joan, it was very convenient to place is called the jay and i are ranch. and california. in the central coast if anyone's seen sideways prevented the central coast of california, it isn't closer to l.a. version of napa and sonoma valley. it wasn't wine country then. ray and his second wife lived in beverly hills. it was an easy weekend retreat. so they get there in 1969, finally married this woman. he's been interested in for years. that said i do like as perhaps they both died it would be having waited so long?

>> it was for ray because he had everything. make donalds had done while beyond his wildest imagination. he was a celebrated businessmen at a time. now we have celebrity ceos a dime a dozen so interesting. back then a ceo with use of media savvy and friendly. it was very unusual. milkshake machines from a salesman become multi, multimillionaire with selling hamburgers. it's just a fantastic story because people were very dubious about this business sustaining. it didn't seem to make any sense. again so obvious to us, but that is extremely dismissive of this idea until of course the stock went public and kept going crazy over the years. he was extremely happy, read about it and they landed in

chicago where he had started where he had lived his whole life. the joan quickly discovered rave is a difficult and contemporaries person which she may have been aware of over the years, but she recognized ray had a serious problem with drinking and it was only two years after they married that she threatened or did file for divorce. and almost as quickly as she filed for divorce, she mysteriously decided to stay in the marriage. that is where her core sense of philanthropy really began because instead saving the marriage and being but she could've been, which was a much younger south of this extremely wealthy man and spending money, she decided to start a charity which she called operation cork, and its mandate was to help

families of people who drank. this was at a time when people didn't talk about this thing very often. betty ford had they would come out, wasn't even on the map. so the fact that joan was so moved by her experiences with alan on, which some may note is the sort of horror companion to eight, which of course helps people who do drink. that had been around in the successful. in the 70s a number of people were working to figure out ways to more for other purposes as well as to address the larger issues which is how families are impacted. john was front and center. she used the money they had earmarked for charity and she would convene people at the site back to the ranch where she married ray in 1969 and brought together the great minds who are

thinking about that and were eager to figure out ways to develop these new systems. what i love the she just didn't do that which would have been terrific enough. she was very act of in creating media. so all these years she had seen the donalds crowd out thanks to the use of mass media. as we all know they are terrific merchandisers today. that is nothing new dating back to the earliest days of the business. job arafat for her work with alcoholism and addiction and made movie she. she produced a play in a series of public service announcements using the best animator at the time in the country. she published books and she died dear abby to write about a pamphlet that she published an married to requests. there is clear that touched a nerve and is so exciting this

woman with a high school education was able to do such formidable work. >> what did they think about that? >> funny enough, ray while he didn't seem to think he had a problem with drinking, he loved what joe was doing. the people around way, the closest mcdonald's advisers are nervous because they didn't want shown talking about right. most didn't believe ray had an issue. this is the idea that someone who is super successful have any problem was unthinkable. now we hear about it in the news so much, there's nothing unusual or even unto her that someone has an addiction problem. they go get it taken care of, come back and often things are okay. but in the 70s that was not something even fathomable. the survey was cool with that. we would hang out at the ranch with these meetings occurred

with all these addiction knowledge as they were called from back then. a common meet and they would be there in his robes smoking a cigarette and having a cocktail and chiming in on the conversation. he was concerned and happy for her about the bigger issue. there's a whole chapter in the book about her relationship with darkness that has a little bit to do with dartmouth computing wish to get money for the business school and showed swoops in and manages to reroute it for a medical program that was extremely important in the egyptian movement and continued until very recently. >> what was their life like together? >> schatz is going on on pitches very passionate about it. he's obviously growing the empire. but what was their life like together? it is an idea what it was like.

>> it was larger than life like both of their personalities. they had crazy, crazy sums of money that they use the way people who are enormously rich do and should. they bought an incredible real estate. she had incredible baubles. one point rate body baseball team because he heard the san diego padres were in trouble in his den about the baseball team. it is very content she was and people who knew them well and were around them often were put in the uncomfortable position of ref or read the two of them because they weren't the kind of couple who was sitting quietly for dinner and then go home and have the site. they would have to fight ratepayer. so there is not boundaries with them. and lives in joan's daughter describes them as liz taylor and burton.

they were just very contentious and volatile. it was difficult and yet it had this veneer of glamour. they were running around in chicago in the 70s is the toast of the town and ultimately in san diego. >> i think they rent with some pretty famous people at that time. >> they were able to have tony bennett come to a party, any party they had food like to invite tony to play piano because why not. and the plane really did very -- she was a huge animal lover. the ferry docks, places they need to go for a vet appointments. baseball players were big part of their life. once ray got into the team. john became friendly with some extremely formidable man after

ray died. that mr. rogers was a close friend of hers, fred rogers. father ted hepworth of notre dame. mercedes cambridge the dress. then lift his larger than life, their apartments on lake shore drive in chicago was apparently extremely popular and the first thing they did was to make sure that there is an organ built into the wall and a pml, too. they were big into parties and glamorous parties. >> we want to talk about philanthropy and i want to leave time for questions, too. so ray died in 84 and he leaves behind his how much money? >> about $500 million. >> so that's half a billion dollars. >> in that day and age that would be the equivalent of what

today? at least three, four times five. >> someone told me and i can't remember, but it's allowed. >> she is living that lifestyle. he passes away. at what point did we know she would turn into a philanthropist that she did become? was it right away or did it take a while? >> we got a stern with operations work and as ray was in his last year, joan exerted her power over the foundation which ray had hired his brother to run. a research scientist, completely different from right except he was fastidious also. he's been giving money away with the foundation to very highfalutin science medical research that was not distinguishable from most mortals. this could be signed this around very highfalutin subjects. joe was annoyed that bad and

especially during the darkness. where was this push and pull to get them to give big donation to the school, which by the way they had nothing to do with. you have to read in the book if you're interested. she just wasn't very interested in the idea of philanthropy. it was when he died almost immediately the money would transfer rate before he died in two to joan's d. kroc foundation. literally, the week that he passed away in january night in 84, she was making donations to local charities in san diego. it took a turn and while they may fall in love with joan is in july of 84 here may remember a man walked into a mix of bonds not far from where ray and joan had been living in la jolla,

california in the san diego area and it was the worst mass murder in our history at that time. job this early and immediately step forward. she was the largest single shareholder at that point and she stepped forward and pledged $100,000 of her own money to start at the dems fund. had a news conference, didn't comic donalds, didn't talk to anyone, just came forward. if you are in the movement you might have known about her because of the work she did. she stepped forward as the widow of the founding chairman of the donald, pledged this money and controversially sad she has such enormous compassion for the widow of the gun and and her two children that the first payout was going to go to them. the community went wild. at first they went wild that

this woman was so benevolent and then many people went wild with the idea that the compassion was extended towards the man who perpetrated this violence. i think i've said a lot about job. john even went so far as to meet this woman to console her. i think that says a lot about her, that she was able at that time when she could have been most concerned about the family business service be the issue is not a crisis management for the family does is that she was concerned about this lament his life was ruined and that was really the first of this on relatively small today. they were nodded and turned at that time of the donations she would make that somehow seemed inexplicable at the time. there seemed to be no rhyme or reason, no pattern. tell us about that and how

people would benefit from her largess. >> when i first told my agent i want to read the book is that philanthropy is so boring. he said no, this isn't typical in there something wrong with people who buy a big checks to help people. that's my favorite person on earth. joan was so different from that. she was so an orthodox. and as you said, but the san diego padres in response to a news item here heard in the car on the airport back home. joan would see a story or hear a story or read a story and call up and all of a sudden get a ton of money to whomever needed it. or she would meet someone on a plane. the first freestanding hospice began because she met a woman on the plane who is a doctor her age and joan was so taken by this woman who had this education and wanted to start a

freestanding hospice in san diego back again when now we take hospice for granted. it's a wonderful thing if we all know it's an incredible presence in the community. it was pretty new. show them love this woman in the next she got a check and joan worked hard to make sure the land was secure. time and time again that is how she gave money. flood the dems. >> their flood victims in south dakota. >> in the 70s there is a huge flood in rapid city and in 1997 a devastating flood in grand forks, north dakota. she was the mayor of a just been given she was on tv every single night discussing the terrible state of the area on television every night. joan was so moved by that she had her friend, the former mayor

fly into grand forks with a check for $20 million in the condition was that it go as immediately as possible to flood the dems to offer them where they had that her name be kept out of it. she didn't realize someone would trade detail. and then of course be sure you have time for questions, so we get to the big donations to really set her apart and still do to this day. >> is a public radio reporter had always heard about joan kroc and they give she gave of -- which again was not whimsical, but it was as much because she related to the then president as that was that she was captivated by the npr mission which of course many people are and they can name every house.

john wasn't like that appeared she understood the value and power of media for a free democracy. but what i didn't know until i started researching this book, she gave a gift that was 10 times larger to the salvation army, also posthumously do was to build recreation centers in poor neighborhoods all around the country. she built one before she died in san diego at the cost of $80 million. it was so beautiful and so transformative that that is where she left the lion share of her fortune when she died. the salvation army was inadequate to do this. this very difficult because they were in the business of building world-class recreation centers. but they prayed and decided to accept the money. >> by the time they cashed out, it was close to $2 billion. >> that is an amazing sound even by today's standards.

>> if you had to sum up the way you feel about her having spent so much time studying her, talking to families, what would you say your biggest impression is that was about her question her >> cynthia, she lived life to the fullest. even when she was diagnosed with a terminal illness and her family devastated, she said i lived an amazing life. i'm sure everyone here has the same feeling. how do i give my life meaning and especially as you get older, have you feel you are useful in the world question art show was useful in so many different ways granted small and while most of us don't have that kind of resource, what i love issue was just so big and everything she did, the way she gambled. she smoked a lot.

she bought incredible tools which she gave away, but she also had the biggest heart. those are the things that stick with me. she was not afraid. she was unafraid or at least if she was it doesn't seem like anybody around her do it and i find those are qualities that i hope to mimic at my own life especially as i get older and the story of her, she did a lot of things that maybe her husband would not have been so excited about. a lot of the guess he wouldn't have necessarily supported and i don't think she did that to annoy him. i think she just worked from the heart and from from passion and what better story can there be to truly live life. >> she lived life. >> we all know about or about ray and joan kroc demo blew up in today. lisa, thank you.

[applause] some of your questions and might need to fill in a gap or two or just have something you would like to ask. who would like to go first? raise your hand and we will call on you. don't shine now. we're all friends here. speak up if you would. >> my wife and i grew up in the midwest and we find it so fascinating the story and relativity and we appreciate the two of you bring it out. i was wondering if you could go out when marijuana became such a mainstream concept in this time. many times foundations will get involved with people. >> that's really interesting. i have no idea you lived in california where now they just

legalize marijuana is controversial in so many ways. i do know that joan was aware of the weekend friendly with betty ford and was also an early supporter which began from the midwest is headquartered outside of minneapolis. those two forces had united in recent years. there are big pavilions in each place that were supported years ago so i can only imagine that is unfortunately a big business to be involved did right now and will only get bigger. >> should we point out the oxford exchange? >> if you don't mind standing, adams here today. and they are -- those of you who don't know, they are the grandchildren of casper started to make donald's empire here in

the bay area. they had 3515 southtown avery. it is also blake and their company built this amazing building. this is sort of the place but donald's built. but it's quite different and that was a bookstore, coffee, tea, lunch. you leave your cares at the door. it's so beautiful that people get married here. at the palace pier the palace. it's even more beautiful than i thought i was so grateful for the rotation of the stories when i got this invitation i've learned so many friend asked cascading effects that make donald's in different places and this certainly is a shining. there's nothing like it. i've been in hundreds of bookstores. i've never seen anything like

this. did the conversation bring any questions forward? [inaudible] >> yeah, so even before big donald's came along, they had a woman who is the gal friday. i don't think anyone caused themselves that anywhere. so jude martina was raised at its core business but they sold these milkshake machines. she was a larger than life personality. she was fearless. she was in that financial shape when ray hired her on the spot and she was with him for years and years and she in fact gave him the first hundred bugs when he went to incorporate that donald is a core business separate from the franchising that the brothers had. she was so instrumental that he

gave her a 10% of the donald's stock. when the donald's went public in 1965, she became a big five or $6 million in paper instantly and they were all great news paper articles written because at the time she was elevated to treasure but she was such an executive -- she became an executive in the corporation and was so incredibly wealthy. so that was incredibly unusual. she apparently were turbans and was very elegant and believed in mystical things. what was so cool about her was when ray and harry, the fellow i describe to came up with the franchise formula and who was the president of mcdonald's and took mcdonald's public, when ray and harry were, there is friction in the company of course and jude was called unofficially the vice president of equilibrium and everybody

would go to her because they knew mom and dad fighting. that was sorted to eat those fair. she was buried state in the middle and with help when they have problems and she was an incredible person. there is a website her family built when she passed away but she stayed on the board of mcdonald's until her death. she was very instrumental in ronald mcdonald house and built herself a beautiful property in palm beach when she left mcdonald's in chicago. a restaurant not favorable had integral piece of history was told by her presence there. you did not meet her you say it for you did. i [inaudible]

>> can you talk about the reviews and the broader picture coming out in december and all the different angles that are being used with the donald's? >> chair, yes. all of a sudden the donald's which never went away as being federated and pop culture with michael keaton play ray kroc in the movie coming out in a minute and literature and plays the first wife, a great cast. it is strange. i got interested in this because of the npr connection, wondering who was this woman who basically helps save npr's finances, but because i covered this piece sculpture where i was until recently a reporter and this giant nuclear mushroom cloud sculpture i was told built by joan kroc and it was in

disarray. they weren't sure how they would fix it or save it. i thought now why would they build this very unusual to find this unusual sculpture. it turns out he was no new proponent in the 80s and a funder in many different ways of the movement and that is what top managers said annette. that is coincidental. they were looking for some paid oocyte social network. i think it's a strange coincidence that the writer of the film and i have been rooting around, reading these old books. very few books were written about the early days of the donald's. one was from 1977 and one was for a 1986 which was an excellent history. i don't know if it's now we're getting old enough that we are interested in things that are nostalgic for our lives.

it's interesting that it's great. it's a fascinating time. -- seeing how people respond to the movie. ray kroc is studied in business schools all around the world even today and the franchise model of courses studied. we will see what happens. yeah, i've been enjoying really fortunate press. it's a good story. >> which is why we think c-span is here today. >> is a very happy surprise. >> the synergy of the movie coming out that the book just launched his great because i think from the trailer i've seen michael keaton is holding a good different from what you are able to see in the book. >> it's important to point out that my publisher is brilliant because they knew the movie was coming out.

>> is anyone else have a question for lisa? >> i was a discrete company with who they surround themselves with any pointed out some great people of course. what about fred? how does he play in the relationship and was he there was some exchanges you identified in the book. >> i didn't get to talk to him before he passed away. he would not talk to me. fred turner was the hand-picked successor and he after brave attire became the chairman of the donald's and was integral even before that as a young man. he was was was apparently they are denied their brave act into the criterion restaurant and first laid eyes on job. he talked about in one of the documentaries that was made about mcdonald's. what an amazing force he was. he was literally at the griddle.

so like joan hubert at the restaurant and knew intimately how things work behind the scenes and in the donald's and was entrusted by ray ,-com,-com ma groomed by ray to take over than he served for many years. he was also, very important to point out, instrumental in getting ronald mcdonald house which does incredible work with six children and their families. he's the one when ray turned 75 decided to help take this idea which as a result of one franchise had kind of grown out of the need in that community. but that was one franchise that did it and fred identified that when you get the man who has everything, he asked people to donate to a fund which allows other mcdonald's to get involved and start the road local ronald

mcdonald houses. he's also a whole book unto himself in a critical force in the early days for sure. right here. >> there is a long record -- [inaudible] contextually shown in those circles, which influential, typical -- >> i'm so glad you asked that. one of these ideas i kept at it when i hit which was almost can't wait, especially because mcdonald's did not wish to help me in my research. jones family was from that dinner to talk to me, too. one of the reasons i kept at it was in listening to jones philanthropy, i really she gave away all her money before bill

gates and buffer were heralded before making their pledge. she was very unorthodounorthodo x in the sense that in the early 90s she got tired of running the foundation. for anybody who knows it's very complicated. understandably so. she shut her foundation down in 1991 and basically started giving out of her check. she was rich enough she did it to a corporate structure. i think that's very interesting. it's not something that works for everyone or would work for everyone, but she didn't want to have to answer when you get all these requests you have to handle all the appeals and the more you give money to bore you ask for money. it wasn't that she was trying to skirt any regulations. she wanted privacy and to be able to give. there were people in her life and thought that was unwise. if she had kept the foundation in place at the time of her

death, it would last in perpetuity were funded and managed correctly like the foundations you mentioned. she made the choice not to do that. she didn't feel the need to have a foundation that lasted forever. she didn't know there were people she returns, you'll know whoever runs the ford foundation and its origins. it's a really interesting story for people involved in any sort of philanthropy because what she did was not right for everyone. the way she did was definitely right for her and in many ways selfless. many have taken the pledge to give away half or more of their wealth, who were wealthy and i love that. i love the people who are enormously wealthy take that commitment and i love that show made that commitment it didn't do it within a proclamation. she just happens to be what

happened. i hope that answers your question. it's a fascinating glimpse into american philanthropy that i hope celebrates her for a long time to come. >> and this was five years ago after research and write this book. was this like a labor of love in a lot of ways? >> i've got a phd in ray and joan -- address by lot from partner pointed out, i've never done anything for as long as i have which is telling about me. >> we hope you've enjoyed lisa happily, the author of ray and joan, the man who made the great donald's fortune and the woman who gave it all away. we know her so much better after this conversation today and it's been wonderful. >> thank you so much. appreciate everyone for being here. [applause]

and if there are any other questions than happy to answer them of course. >> are you good? okay, that's fine.

>> the second time as in 22nd time as in 2005 so i've been out of iraq for over a year. the narrative about what it gone on in the prisons of iraq simply did not ship with what i've and went ahead god and i recognized again that as a soldier, i had an obligation to the truth and as i the narrative switch had people talk with an isolated incident is either taking care if we simply had nothing the way he did that those of us who were there again had a duty to speak out to the original post. we had not used the word torture at this point. i still struggled with the idea of what we call enhanced interrogation that had kind of an impact on me in my own experience i was struggling with. i thought there is a discussion that the american people needed

to have and evolve to the point where recognized now enhanced interrogation really is torture and an enhanced interrogation. what i didn't want to do is write some policy book where the eggs come from or why it happened because i simply didn't know a lot of those things. more importantly it had an obligation to tell my story and explain my role in these things and not to justify them and not even on some level to condemn them completely or the other people involved but to be as honest as i could.