general macarthur, at nine former white house chandelier cleaner stewart steerchs recalls his time serve under 7 presidents at 10 p.m. eastern georgetown flocty professor jason brennan weighs in on flaws in democratic systems and we wrap up our saturday prime time lineup at 11:00 with 37th annualbook awards that happens tonight on c-span2's booktv. >> excited to talk to you about the new book with a speech reason hopefully just the first of many -- ...

>> >> >> i got the opportunity last year. before i start one-two extend a special thanks to the bookstore. [applause] for giving me this opportunity also to c-span who is reporting this which is good because it has always been edgy month find to be on booktv. [applause] if you know someone who could not make it or you

just find me so captivating to watch again. [laughter] it will be on tv hopefully very soon. the original title of this book was almost treason and that those of long way of the concept behind the book and also our recently ended presidential election. i know if you notice but it was a contentious affair the most of my lifetime and treason on net daily word you heard from around by both candidates and supporters and i would not blame you if you did not notice it was a low-key affair but accusations were flying around but when people say treason what did they really mean? it is defined in the constitution when you

provide aid or comfort to the enemy of the united states the only crime defined and that is a very specific reason. under british rule treason is applied to a great many of them for those that were opposed begins speaking out against of the government there was a supreme court justice who noted favor not only raising a hand but we saw an example of that at the constitutional convention with one of the delegates mentioned the case of the english man who wished death on the unknown man who had killed his favorite but that turned out to be the king even though he had no way to know food he was was convicted for treason the framers were

very familiar and they wanted to make scheerer they cannot make that offer happening in their countries and not congress could not change a at their whim. that does not stop people from using the word over and over but most of the time with certain presidential elections most of the time that you share that but they feel that somebody is being disloyal to be seditious in some way. and there was one incident in particular that inspired the book above to take credit but my publisher can up with the idea you may

remember 2015 last year that president obama was trying to negotiated deal with the iran nuclear program and 47 republicans and senators and any deal that day beach with ratification and then they could be scrapped by the next president. file looks like a likely outcome at this point. so they accuse the senator that went against the logan act. even went so far to accuse him of treason. now this may sound familiar just a few months ago donald

trompe naiad comment for the russians to release the e-mail's that is a violation of the logan act but the incident with senator cotton is a launching point natalie because it was the inspiration but the focus of the first chapter with the epilogue in keeping you here to midnight that is the small handful i will start with the l. logan act. 1798 on the brink of war france was at war with its neighbors trying to stop shipping to its enemies they

were capturing sailors and now was preeminent at that point because congress in the of white house was controlled by the federalist party of the democratic republican party led by thomas jefferson was anti-war and did not have a lot they could do about it so in the midst of all of this state that they could do something about this. a philadelphia uh dr. named logan he was a friend personally of jefferson and he was a quaker and he thought if he could meet with some of leader of france he could talk them back from the edge to keep as country of war.

still logan was a prominent person with that stature needed to negotiate with the foreign country's leader and to negotiate the better deal so basically he's sold aho several parcels -- parcels of land he got an audience and by this time france had seen the wisdom to what things back and it was impossible to determine what the real impact was. but they certainly thought there was a lot of impact he was hailed a hero he became a celebrity in paris.

you would think he received similar treatment in his home country for his own initiative. morbid that was most emphatically not the case. to be inexcusable of american foreign policy and what day saw the bus of these as well that the view that democratic republican of the mob rule of the french revolution in they wanted to do something that they would not do this again. and makes it does crime without authorization to correspond directly or indirectly with a foreign power over any disputes or controversy.

this turns out to be one of the worthless slides and i know that is a high bar from when they pass this budget hawk in the 225 years it is passed not the single person was convicted that is the distinction and those on the eastern seaboard who were out of touch with the rest of america. in the absence the many real-estate mogul deciding he would write an article under a pseudonym and for them to succeed from the union shortly before the of louisiana purchase.

the local u.s. attorney in a bit overzealous decided this was correspondence with a foreign country. there is not a lot in the historical record in the nfl apart very quickly. so the l. logan act with of worst penalty is a historical footnote. [laughter] and as it turns out to the only thing it was accusing the political enemies and with those accusations with the congressional republicans for the trip she took to syria and how they make these accusations and

jesse jackson getting back at those american and hostages then extended ministration thought about fighting charges and even ross perot coming back from of vietnam war effort. but george logan has nothing but the best of intentions lead is very much in accusation and that was him on the senate floor perpetrating him as the trader. not the only person the other was the man named tressed he did not betray his country under the british and there is no question he betrayed the

president but if it was in the best interest of his country, in 1847 at that point when president pulled decided to be extremely generous but he and the of secretary of state wanted to negotiate with of minimum that he would except with the rio grande river and then if you other concessions that was particularly important to pay that mexican and government. now that seems like of very safe choice as a loyal

democrat second in command and very strong supporter of the war that was controversial. it turned out not to be quite as safe and was appalled by what he saw the unabashed war of conquest -- conquest so he is having those that he had an end to down at the time i did not want to sit down at the negotiating table so finally they got to appoint where there were getting desperate where there was uh temporary cease-fire and to get mexico

to the of bargaining table it was a little more than president poehl what has been comfortable with. the area that was very important to president poehl and nothing ever came of this but eventually getting back to washington and secretary buchanan heard about this in very quickly concluded that it was a huge mistake immediately recall that back and return to washington immediately. at the time this happened get improved day a bill that and then they would have shot a deal. they didn't want to leave

this deal they were concerned about what would happen. with those grand designs of what they may think. so they decided they would disobeys that president to illegally negotiate a treaty one now he knew p. could not negotiate anything that would resemble a treaty but the least bad treaty to stop the country that it would have to be accepted by polka and the senate to ratify. the result was the treaty was except edina but the

treaty was good. they gave them everything they wanted basically. then it was ratified. but at the time want to go all lot further even with the members of his cabinet to get a lot more out of the war people wanted to extend of border several hundred miles out from where was someone to annex the entire country there is no way to say and maybe abraham

lincoln and gesture out of racism they didn't want to bring those non-white citizens from the united states. but because of nicholas tressed we never had to go down that road. now several of the chapters in my book follow a common theme of first amendment liberties. and there is a lot of

chapters involved. because these debates for they are accused of treason and it bin the middle. and facing oppression from the government but is almost always done in the name of national security. and that was basically past. and resaw this again to crack down on defense and we explore that with the former ohio congressman with a faction of the democrats to be exiled to the confederacy at the time was known as the

lead it just is. and the espionage act that was used against the first socialist ever elected to congress with the major newspaper published. but with a first amended rights it is complete without a the mccarthy era of the witch hunt and to star research that i knew that i would have to include from the chapter and there is all what 21 choose from that is ingrained in the national consciousness. and don the activities committee. and then i chose to focus and it is shocking and that

was the smith act trial in the end of the communist party. and then the law that was passed and made it illegal to advocate for of violent overthrow of the u.s. government. now wants the cold war started and with the tremendous pressure from the republican regarding criticism. -- communism. and at the urging of hoover and the fbi to have of less

than empathetic group you find so much once they erroneously believed bois to be unfairly a targeted a very proud am public not member lettie and then the of the defendant and was charged with sedition to go into hiding and changes name and travel the of world and had to leave their son because of the russian government taken back to america. so i did that. so perhaps that is why to be

remembered so well now the justice department as they were plotting but that entire case rested upon the violent overthrow of the government but even in that case could do to a number of circumstances with the very bizarre legal strategy with propaganda and disruption and the appealing this all the way to the supreme court. the was not a close call for them. if they hadn't then ploting at the time and to get

around to it. in then that is for they would spring into action. with the great geopolitical struggle these 11 men constituted a clear and present danger is those two justices that dissented there's no way the fairchild to show those equal passions so the supreme court would come back to restore those civil liberties but that time did not come for a while it was about six years and then that came true and

then get pell the conviction that was the starter pistol the of the communist party usa not until 1957 that they survey the landscape and then overturned that unconstitutional and in those intervening six years and across uh country not including the original defendant charged of violating that conspiracy provision 93 were convicted and they stayed in prison with the oblast defended in jail through 1962 and they commuted his sentence but it interesting side note but it

is still on the books today and it has not been enforced in about 60 years so if you are planning to silently overthrow the government laugh laugh i am not talking to anyone in particular. but i think that wraps up my presentation thanks for coming if you don't have a copy yet you can buy one here. also let your local bookstore please go to my website and afterwards i will sign autographs 51 to your book sinai will be here but before we get to that to this anybody have any questions about the book and general or the very fascinated once please ask the way.

>> q cover the john adams era putting people in jail specifically? that made him look bad. >> with the alien and sedition act is focusing is especially on his grandson and the argue very vigorously at the paper. and even before the adams administration so some of them suffered severe consequences. >> with those more current defense what do you think of the edward snowden situation

quite. >> i think probably is the up perfect embodiment the focus of a epilogue in diameter many more books will be written about it but the perfect example if you hear the word trees and used quite often other people call him a hero. and then he tries to sort that out. >> maybe that awareness has changed. >> i think if we used uh turmoil little less frequently we have seen one case of treason those that

was doing barack propaganda videos but in 1952 it is a very foreign concept now with something to write on the of log that i know it when they see a standard set out in the constitution. >> the when the treaty was passed nothing good happened to him. [laughter] unlike george logan with the future tryst from emerging the job was not waiting for him when he back and the state department and for

many years for he in his wife to make that and winfield scott forged an alliance to petition abraham lincoln they were not to key on that idea so anonymously not until the late 1860's with the expenses incurred while in mexico and finally 1871 someone convince the grant administration spending the last four years of his life in alexandria of virginia of laugh.

>> hoodie you decide to include? there is a plethora of choices. >> part to of that to i mentioned a free-speech civil liberties, so each of those areas i wanted to find one good example for the alien and sedition act berger the socialist congressman or the espionage act of for all for one -- world war i but the logan act was a given in that was the incident behind the book. but to dig deep into my historical knowledge it took me awhile. i had to keep crossing things off and add new things.

>> what about nixon and kissinger with the of logan act? >> not kissinger but briefly some talk of using it against nixon. very brief. and that is another chapter in my book talking about richard nixon 1968 worrying that johnson talking about peace in vietnam would help hubert humphrey win the election because he was gaining on him. he was conspiring secretly telling him to reject any overture from johnson. but johnson found out and did use the word trees and 1.while angrily talking to a senator if you listen to loud johnson's white house he swears a lot when he talks. [laughter]

but lbj did consider using the logan act but they did not fully have the evidence they needed to go public and that point they decided it would be bad for the country as a new president coming in. medium rare can do better what they were getting into had that come out but they learned eventually. >> joseph mccarthy and the name roy cohn comes to mind did you write about them? because it turns out a big time mentor to the president-elect. >> i believe that was mentioned only in passing with that chapter talking about the mccarthy era and having no sense of decency but really is only mentioned

in passing as a part of that era. >> did you ever look at the assertion that they met with the iranian agents in 1980 for the release of hostages after the election? >> i think that was under consideration because that this very fact that -- fascinating with the logan act itself i think part of the reason is still murky with evidence and people believe that did not have been bad william casey who became the california a director as the campaign manager mrs. saul going on during the iran hostage crisis. and was trying to negotiate an all-day wanted was to get

these people out. so to play a role that that might not have happened then that would make carter look great for the election and coincidentally now within a half hour of the inauguration they did not want to give jimmy carter the satisfaction if that was there own spite towards carter that could still be in resolved but those are the accusations. >> the following chapters have some weird language about the of punishment which i read right before i came here tonight. i did not look at but corruption the threats

against people committing treason or the punishment quick. >> and don't think there is any limit but execution and a lot of people have been executed for treason. it does not have to be the death penalty but there is no limit on how far the government can't go to punish you if you are convicted. you have to read medellin zero pin cord or have to separate what mrs. to the treasonous acts and that is why it is so rare we have only seen 30 cases of some even charged with treason in this country. >> account many people have been executed quick. >> i am not sure. maybe 30 people were charged

in total and 225 years of the country's history, don't quote me but i think around 18 have been convicted sums spent their life in prison not all was executed last person convicted i believe was a 1952 and american of japanese descent who helped to engineer pearl harbor and worked for the company that used american pows as slave labor he was sentenced to death but president eisenhower commuted the sentence to life in prison. >> one american citizens are jailed for spying like rosenberg they're not generally charged with treason. whether they charged quick. >> very often like the rosenbergs with the espionage act they were

charged with espionage even edward snowden he was charged under the espionage act. i am not sure those other statues with their so many other laws like taking up arms against your country and to pass on national security secrets there is a whole range of laws that cover. >> what about daniel was quite. >> i did not get into ham, not a full chapter but "the chicago tribune", three paydays before the attack on pearl harbor they were very opposed to roosevelt trying to push the of war they got ahold of the top speaker war plants and slash them across the front page and there is

a lot of talk for short-time to be charges against the paper and publisher that filled by the of wayside if you days later as they edged illustration had bigger things to deal with but the last third covers the pentagon paper incident as well in the broader view of that chapter regarding the press leaks. >> that one soldier in afghanistan they held him five years, a lot of people wanted him charged with treason to aid and abet the enemy they claimed he went over there to help them but do you have any stories of wartime where soldiers were executed without trial or suspicion of treasonous acts >> that is an something i did not looking into but i am sure it happens a lot in wartime on the battlefield

with the ranks of the military they do have a lot of latitude. >> [inaudible] >> it could be. >> treason is not used it is easier to use against them because treason is so narrowly defined quite. >> i do think that is a big part of it because the bar that is set to convict somebody with those two witnesses with the overtaxed homeless admitted in open in cordage is unlikely soul lot of cases i think potentially you could bring charges but that never happens. think of john walker the american telephone and begin the news around 9/11 was fighting with the outside in afghanistan and was captured

by the u.s. forces. he was not charged with treason. i forget that georgia be a bush at the time wrote off the possibility of the treason charge and said it is a kid he was misled and edit want to do that. is still life in prison. no death penalty. could be worse. >> the framers thought that treason had to be treated in a certain way that all the other lines that have that analogy to treason were not given the same los scrutiny are inconsistent with what the framers intended by having treason in the constitution in the first place. >> that is a very good point

the obvious work around congress has found if they pass laws if not for treason to carry the same penalty but lower fine even the favorites found their own work around very early on with the sedition act that had the concept of judicial review probably but have been struck down as unconstitutional but the espionage and sedition act was upheld. lot of these things so politicians are a creative bunch there is no shortage of ways to get around the narrow definition. i would love to sign some books if nothing else. [applause]

>> we will begin signing a book shortly. [inaudible conversations]

. >> i was born at a time in south africa where my parents were not allowed to be in contact with one another. i grabbed during a time when we were governed by the laws of inter -- interracial relationships was forbidden so we essentially being born

from my parents with the black woman from south africa, i was essentials leave borne a crime. i was against the law what my parents had done was break the law and because of that our lives were impacted the way we could live as a family under the rules of apartheid. >> i'm director of the library is a great pleasure to welcome all of you hear it is wonderful to have such a robust pride we have a lot of members that are here with us and also lot of people who are in the or