at 8 p.m. alec ross on the industry of the future. and then steve johnson on his book wonderland, how play made the modern world. after that, sonya shaw on pandemic, tracking contagions from cholera to ebola and beyond. and followed by time travel, a history. and kathy o'neill on methods of mass destruction, how big data threatens democracy. 2016 books on science and technology at 8 p.m. eastern on book tv here on c-span 2. book tv is on twitter and facebook and we want to hear from you. tweet us, twitter.com/book tv or comment on our facebook page. facebook do facebook.com/book tv. >> we want to introduce you to

paul moreno, the author of this book, the bureaucrat kings, the origins and underpinnings of america's bureaucratic state. professor moreno on page one, the united states is ruled by an establishment nowhere mentioned in the constitution. what does that men? >> this is the so-called fourth branch of government which in a way is a combination of the other three branches, that's the heart of the constitutional problem. the original constitution was meant to be founded on the basis of separation of powers, probably the most important structural feature of the constitution. in the 20th century we developed the apparatuses, environmental protection agency, federal communications and most of this started with the new deal. they combined legislative and executive and judicial powers and that's called the essence

of tyranny. so that's the kind of problem that we face. >> so congress passes a law. the president signs it. >> yeah. >> what happens? >> well, there to say, you have congress that passes a law is the problem. congress doesn't pass law, they legislate, they delegate and they have people who are not accountable, you write the rules, you write the lawsment they give them a vague aspiration, we want clean air or no discrimination or a fair railroad rate and it allows those people, supposed to be the experts, to actually make the rules and make the law. >> and congress what they do for the most part, is sit back and intervene in individual cases where their constituents get in trouble with these agencies. we call this constituent service, which much more helpful to them getting elected and much easier than the hard job of making policy choices and legislativement the problem

is that congress doesn't legislate. it's not doing its fundamental constitutional job. >> has the creep or the increase in the bureaucratic state been explicit, implicit? has it been slow? >> it's come in waves, in quanta, the scientists would call it. the first great percent was in the progressive arrow about 100 years ago. woodrow wilson, a political scientist before he was president, giving america a new style, administrative state. the big egest was probably afte the new deal, after the great depression. and after the great increases in governmental power, americans have second thoughts and usually there's a conservative reaction. the great society in the 1960's with lyndon johnson and the

obama administration brought in the fourth one, the affordable care act and dodd-frank, they're qualitatively a new step on american state, the way that the europeans have had a state for much longer. >> so, professor moreno, how has this affected you and i? >> people usually don't meet a bureaucrat face-to-face, a frale bureaucrat especially, but everything that you do in life, practically, is affected by rules that the people make, anything that involves your health care now is increasingly dictated by health and human services. if you want to apply for a job, there are all kinds of requirements and regulations that are-- and employers, especially, have to comply with all kinds of red tape. the compliance costs of satisfying federal regulators are throwing exponentially. education, schools are

increasingly managed and used to be the quintessential institutions where americans governed themselves in schoolhouses so every aspect of life is being shaped, by rules, prospectively laws, that are made and enforced by people who nobody knows, people they can't name. people they don't vote for. people who aren't accountable to them. and people who think they are-- they know how to manage the lives of ordinary americans better than ordinary americans themselves can. >> you used the 1927 radio act as an example, why? >> herbert hoover who has gone down in history unbe fortunately as a laissez-faire, was a progressive. and the radio act i think it was the federal radio commission, the power to issue licenses to people if you wanted to operate a radio. according to their sense of public convenience and necessity.

so, these people got to decide, these commissioners got to decide whether the public really needed a radio outlet in a certain locality. and that's a tremendously powerful power that they have. previously newspapers were relative unregulated. you didn't need a license to start a newspaper, radio you did. radio was a more ma manipulating and they knew that the license renewal was contingent on whether you played ball the way that the administration wants you to. so, i think it's a perfect and early example of some of the political dangers of an administrative discretion of licensing. >> and given to what you've been describing as the size of the federal government grown? >> not as much as you think.

the number of personnel that the government has employed hasn't grown much since world war ii. mostly because the federal government gets the states to do its regulating. the federal government gives money to the states and the states have to comply with federal regulation so the states are actually administering these programs. so, people haven't noticed so much the growth of the federal government in terms of personnel, because it's being carried out through the agencies of the states and by getting private institutions to hire officers whose whole jobs, full-time job of lawyers is making sure that we're in compliance with federal regulations. the government has made the enforcement of this done through both state and private parties. >> what's the role of the federal register? >> that is sort of the compilelation of these regulations and it wasn't-- it wasn't started until 1935. you have one central place

where people go to see what regulations are and in the old days in the 19th century, congress passed a statute, tremendously important, three or four paragraphs, three or four pages. the federal regulator is tens of thousands of pages every year. i think the record was about 80,000 pages in one year back in the 1980's and we recently broke that record in 2015. so he essentially 100,000 pages of federal regulations and even those are only the formally published regulations. the federal regulators by just informal memo of understanding, this are not published and subtle ways that don't use any foot sprints in the record. so the federal registry is a tip of the iceberg and no uncould keep up with it. big companies would hire people whose specialty it is to deal

with regulation, some specific aspect of their business. >> in your view, professor, the growth of the bureaucratic state, as you call it, could it be attributed to congress? >> congress is fundamentally responsible. their dereliction of duty, unwilling to do the hard choices, the hard choices they've taken the easy way out. their fundamental interest is in getting reelected and they find the current system increases their power. but people see that they're giving aware their power. it's self-abdi gaiting. it's not. congressmen are more likely to stay in office. that's why there's an incumbency rate higher than the house of lords in england. >> in the 19th century in the old days when congress actually did its job, the concern then

was that congress was interfering too much in the day-to-d day-to-day administration of government. so we've had problems with congress on both ends. delegating too much power and micromanaging too much. the constitution is a healthy balance in terms of congress not being overwhelming part of it. >> the book is here and paul moreno of hillsdale college is the author. >> here is a look at some of the staff picks from politics and pros bookstore in washington d.c. olivia lang explores the solitary lives of artists in the lonely city. and the first nonfiction book, he says that climate change is ignored. pulitzer prize winner examines

the future of genetic manipulation in "the gene". another staff pick from the policies and pros bookstore is "grunt", to looks at the safety of effectively of america's military. atlantic magsz-- magazine contributor, about islamic exceptionalism. >> and the science behind ant anti-depre anti-depresssent medications. many of the authorities have or will be appearing on book tv and you can watch them on our website, book tv.org. >> next week, washington journal will devote the entire programming stay to the key issues facing the new trump administration in congress. beginning monday december 26th

we'll look at national security and defense issues, including president-elect trump's look at the year ahead and james mattis. on tuesday, december 27th. it's trade and job issue had you congress and the trump administration could change current trade laws in an effort to create or save jobs. ens, december 28th, we'll discuss how energy and climate issues mitt be impacted by the incoming trump administration. thursday, we'll talk about immigration and how president trump and the administration will look at that. and we'll look at accordable care act, the key players to watch in the months ahead. be sure to woch it beginning december 26th at 7 a.m.

eastern. >> c-span's washington journal live every day with news and policy issues that impact you. coming up thursday, center for public integrity reporter, talking about the politics behind the opioid epidemic in the u.s. the center for the study of presidency in college, "twilight warriors" explain how the national security apparatus has voted to combat terrorism. >> begin watching 7 a.m. eastern and going into the discussion. >> now, gail buckley tells the story of her ancestors. the story of her book, the black calhouns from civil war to civil rights with one african-american family. this was part of the book festival in