do they throw the ball down field. ..

>> >> fumble or baseball so because this something is new or does not fit to mine gold does not make it bad. this energy has been good for the game my probably would not do some of those things that he does benghazi said earlier and but the fact is that his coaches are comfortable his teammates are comfortable and at the end of the day that is all that matters.

>> we are out of time and this is denigrate conversation dig deep congratulations i enjoyed meeting and then know the public will. >> i hope they will buy it for my experiences one. >>

>> host: it is great to be with you thanks for making time to talk about your book american under god. prove that principles matter. [laughter] and to talk to about this i enjoyed the reid you can tell that i have my pages here as you know, i work in the house of representatives as a staffer to former economic professor dick armey who had a big impact on the house with those in the -- intellectual underpinnings and we talk about this with the former free market economics professor but now when the house of representatives. >> and dave have ben will

models you cannot put free market economics and your values together into politics. >> host: that is what i was so fascinated about in your book be coz one it is the synthesis of faith and economics and public service and the fact is as people know you as he was a house majority leader deal layperson to beat the house majority leader and that is hell people came to hear about dave brat but so to talk about this about how there is days and this this of politics. >> primarily that is why i wrote the book.

to go back to the of founders of those 4,000 year tradition but if you go to grad school with ph.d. in economics paul the centers are highly specialized. but over the last 3,000 years, all of the greatest thinkers from socrates from jefferson or madison they took greek and hebrew and latin and that was the liberal arts education. and i only applied to. i just want to show folks it is still possible. ended your ethics don't

match up in you could not lined up those incentives your doomed to failure. but both of them want a large number of competitors. and with those factions competing against each other. and to put up 200 pages. >> what i was struck if i was the complementary aspect of the ethics and economics and politics. and that i would -- god would work six and rest on the seventh that presumes

the right to hold things that may be coveted. so that basis of the judeo-christian religious tradition with the best public policy from your perspective it was an important chapter in the history of the state. tell us why you see the founding as important of the history of our faith. >> but you just got at it and they could not see with back tradition was the given and we are there right now. , there is the debate between church and state the first amendment is about that.

and no establishment of a religion. but. >> and i went to princeton seminary, we found it. the presbyterians so we found in these great institutions. we will take action so it was assumed it was aristotle into that cabinet position and now they can no longer teach ethics if you bring up religion in a brown bag is

real so with the separation of church and state such to look to say that type of separation? note ten commandments? then compassionate love shows up about zero as we were not the most loving society. but of the total separation if the he men right to emerge added that judeo-christian tradition set dave perceive the persistence of government.

so wanted to push the thinking now little bit. so to get a good debate going. >> and to mention that catholic tradition and how does your faith and how that forms your public service and that is biographical group than each right in michigan through ninth grade.

this stuff because the new growth with the protestant tradition and then went to princeton seminary. so a great liberal friend of mine so i knew wanted to treat philosophy in college. and then went to the world bank and the philippines and then i met my wife were i taught economics and ethics.

so it is my calling to put those things together. >> host: this is not a memoir. but you did talk about your ph.d. and how did you meet your? i consider both of you friends and she is the wonderful woman. how did you meet her? to make it is pretty funny and mutual friend set up a blind date. it was awkward half first. but then we just had values in common.

i love it up here but with the same judaeo-christian outlook. in the love where we're going. we have been made -- married 20 years and just drop the oldest off at college. did hit me way hard. but when you see is in the room that is not good. >>. >> again to combat to what we talk about in the book because if you touch on the

founders and not just the horizontal separation of powers so not just across the federal government but that the state's word i checked on the federal branch authority how was that working out right now in that regard of the of horizontal and vertical analysis? >> and i will go back real quick that he went to princeton seminary and then he studied hebrew.

would say how long does it take human nature to fall? so that is the traditional forms your thinking what do you do? separate power vertically and horizontal lead. federal-state local with those enumerated powers so since then we've violated that behind -- beyond comprehension that house had 5 inches of bills. so if you get the sense we are upside-down, we are. and we have to push things back with the direct bottom line but those federal prague -- programs that our insolvent with their own

board of trustees reports so in 10 years of federal revenue will go just to entitlement programs. so that is not need that is the main grab. of the budget committee. so that kind of evidence where virginia is a well-run stay. we don't want them to think we are anti-government then go by flowers. and education is in the constitution of the stage. we have to do that and we should do that. but i got pants on fire to

say we debated on the salad bar. we did. go check again that we debated what is on the salad bar at your local school at the federal level. >> host: you say that vertical component returns governance to the stage. even if some of the implications and i thought that was an interesting point. the key is we are supposed to be a democratic republic. that just means there is a fair process and your a fiscal hawks use. and there is still free them. there is a large number of options.

>> so i point out the federal government is the creation of the state is remarkable how few people realize and your point about the checks and balances with the prerogatives of the state. and the devastating in southwest virginia. >> and we aeronaut among down but we hope the legislative branch of poults

the state prerogatives. >> some people think it is the executive doing that power grab. there are some hot button issues and they don't want to vote. because you may be kicked out so we ranged with the judiciary now is the executives and tell the executive branch to give tremendous power and everybody is learning what that looks like. and congress shall make all laws.

ru term limiting yourself? >> guess. twelve years. i looked at a couple of numbers and if you have your eye on leadership there is nothing wrong with that but the of money is so dominant. eighty% of those votes going to presidential the yet they put in all the incumbents of congress is an amazing power of the purse to win the elections. on top of that many part to be chairman of the committee if you vote in lockstep with leadership you can just are looking that both sides do this. >> and to run for the senate

was close but no more than two terms i think it is important mentalities though speaking of the founders to have the favorite to and why quick. >> probably madison because of his seminary and i love the constitution that washington is interesting. he stands out. in vr blessed with just history he is the one that everybody likes. he walks into a room. and they just deferred automatically.

i just want to see the look on his face. all these great men who have egos turn to him. >> and i will tell you a funny story i was on a business trip in london and i was talking to him about the founding that there is a divine inspiration and it told him about living near mount fernand he said it is possible the british empire could have defeated george washington by washington in franklin and adams and bill whole bloody lot? no way. [laughter] it is remarkable.

so you talk the underpinning of the moral case for free enterprise for conservative commentary to leave that economic growth and up word mobility says the free enterprise system is the greatest supplier. so you make that point in the book with freedom and earnings. the next graph shows the incomes of the bottom 10% to support better under capitalism.

so go out and buy the book "american undergod" because this chart is definitive proof of that. and one of the things that there is unjust economic value and labor but there is human dignity. and a market economy that allows to have the dignity of work but why don't more people understand it and for them to be enamored by socialism? >> unfortunately the political divide i grew up with liberals abetted the root word is liver -- liberty and the lions have gotten confused but i put my dissertation on all of the

indicators guests were the cleanest environment? the most women in the workforce? highest degrees eight grade? political rights and civil liberties? then you talk about the dignity there is a six volume set with a ph.d. in economics and in her book says the cause of modern economic growth every person made $1,000 per year. and in 1700 you get hockey stick. now massive economic growth.

so with human capital and industrial revolution, and then and she says there is 1700 that we start to call the businessman or the businesswoman morally good so my position is abraham knows this or jesus or gandhi or confucius nowhere do they say capitalism is good. it is something that you put up with but the problematic thing is if you last quarter we teaching our kids in school? that business is morally good?

or business wall street is nasty and there are a few bad apples but the predominance of america is a good every small business person wants to give their employees health care. to teach economics people are very good in want to help employees. to teach the kids it is unjust work is a calling you to be happy and passionate every waking hour of your life. so we have to show them this is good for you. by the way it is good politics also. >> so talking about a college professor and also

as a teacher that comes through here so you encourage your students to get involved in politics. >> i do. plato and the republic so do math until you are 30 then philosophy until you are 50 then politics when you are near death. [laughter] your mortality age. when you're done with wine and women and song. then you can make sure you are done with that deal. >> but go into a vocation

first. but always major in your passion. >> and do what you love but minor in accounting. minor in science or web design just in case. follow your passion but that is good counsel people say i am glad that i did that i needed a backup plan. >> is greeted vice and i tell people i know a lot of successful people with that external valuation of success, i don't know any happy people. do what makes you happy but if your goal is success you may not be very happy.

so of video generation these kids are doing better. >> to talk about the economy in terms of what they dealt with so that economic dead end chapter 12, even those keeping track of nothing of those jobs numbers tell themselves everything is back to normal but there is hinting at the ongoing deeper problems. in with the invisible recovery it is the outcome of decades with increasing regulation of great

recession is optimistic. this diagnoses a typical cyclical downturn implying all we need to do to get out of it is wait that is bad news if we break those fundamental drivers of the economy. so we have been told that this recovery is the new normal to except those growth rates so this is because those fundamentals are broken but what those things we need to get right

but it was still be down to get that education back in the entrepreneurial spirit with the protestant work affect with of location and second that regulatory overhang you talk to any small business person to disagree on health care but would discoing of fair 15 or 20 percent with a deductible for the poor and the study showed the average family has $400 on hand. they know i cannot make it for another downturn. in that is with us deficit. they have 4 trillion on the

balance sheet that is huge stimulus. if it is the interest rates it is 2 percent it would crash. the markets would get january. 2% would not be normal. so we are on a sugar high. so it is always capital accumulation but machinery. who puts a bed of the next 10 year window?

>> with such a dampening defect don't know the next time it will come your way. >> and that's it if every bette just looks across negative 20 or 3% that is not the spirit that we need. >> so talk in terms of economics as well. on page 49 throughout this book washington cannot be in the business of picking winners and losers the best ways to allow the innovators to thrive for consumer demand not on the friends that they have in washington. so why talk about how this president has moved our economy based on the promise

what you know was more important than who you know, ? and the decisions of 100 million americans every day. energy decisions internet, you name it. those of the political appointees. that has a dampening effect but you are right about the destruction of the incentives in people being awarded the targeted tax credit to build a better mousetrap. >> the american people have

figured it out for good or bad. i try not to get negative but the educational side is huge and people have figured it out you have 80 percent going for the outsider candidates in no bernie gets 50 percent of the votes and that is unheard of weak as people see the small guy is left behind if you don't have a lawyer or a lobbyist in making get through the regulatory tape. but back in the '50s of general motors it was common sense as general motors co so does the nation we have to go back to that. we just had the ceo 11 out of 15 exchanges so somebody

is scared of the federal government if you have to hundred million per quarter in you say they are okay then the pressure you can imagine what the small guy is doing. and put a runoff tank for their restaurant worth $200,000? that is putting kids through four years of it university. >> there's a lot of regulation and then a secure strange -- a drainage ditch. >> that you have to trust the price system but that is what the country is built on to allow the price to dictate how did they know to

put them on the table bucks because the price of just everytime you scanned that is a purchase that information's goes to the supply -- this supplier so make 10 more. that is amazing no central planner knows that. the they start picking winners and losers it is catastrophic that is the main reason i wanted to run for office. >> some of the private sector business folks subject to corruption but yet there is a notion that person in a government entity is of us view of the left is profit motive in

that is inherently good. but that is the mindset when you expose of fallacy that a think is healthy. >> echoes back to the logic that the last thing you want is a concentration of power anywhere. with a $4 trillion budget with the $18 trillion economy it is a concentration of power over the $4 trillion budget. and that means it would go to the floor for a vote. survivors six people would determine the budget over the next month. i tried to call out the red flag to go to the cbo and educate yourself is a big

deal. >> is huge. and another thing that you talk more about the deficit than we hear on the nightly news. and not only the economic aspect but the moral aspect as well. i remember past debates and discussions when we worked on the hill we were at a balanced budget but yet that debt has doubled why is that correct. >> both sides are over committed.

it is called economic goods not economic bad. more education's more roads more missiles but the debt is 19 trillion the unfunded liabilities the promises to pay medicare/medicaid social security is 100 trillion so in 10 years all revenue is only for mandatory spending. so where is the ethics? everybody lobbies on behalf of the goods that what about the kids? when medicaid and medicare are insolvent seniors would give a 20% clip that is in the law right now in medicare is not far behind the kids will get away more so that is the ethics.

i taught those kids nobody is sticking up for you i will go to the hill i will go to the press. i stand in the middle and i am tortured laugh laugh that is my calling and i want to do that. every day they say here he comes again. we know what he will say but it is immoral calling to show will have been to change those points to go through the house and the senate. we cannot do that on the budget committee. because if you yell to loud what will you do? constituents say what you doing to fix it corrects you have not done anything. i say i am one guy doing everything i can i'm trying to influence the votes but it is a heavy lift i am talking to democrats right

now all the war between the right and the left we worked out in the weight room we get along a debate my catholic friends in the morning religion and economics and policy they are friendly good people. they did not get to that level we all get along great . but the press makes it the great divide. it is not true. the true power is right in the middle that is not led by the right or the left do a quick scan you will convey bond negative seat was controlling. >> the media tends to mix tool the of virtues. end everybody plays a role in the process but to diminish the process of people like you and those on

the left him make the argument on either side. ended is those to get all the glory of play a very important role in the political process. >> there is uh few keywords to crapshoot govern and compromise. if you have $550 billion deficit do we increase that number? serve to talk about compromise i am willing more than anybody but ask to be the same direction as long as though 1% goes up then you'll find me at the table.

>> host: we can increase the economic growth that would do more than anything to bring down the debt. so the relatively low unemployment rates but there is a lot underneath that. we have a 1.$5 billion revenue. how can that be? just like the country with declining labor force participation some people have left a the workforce. we have part-time employees working 28 hours because of obamacare and the mandate of 30 hours and we have been

trading out high-paying jobs for low-paying jobs. there is human dignity in all work and we should value that but that is one of the reasons revenues are down. so we have to raise taxes to close the gap. we'll need more work more virginians paying higher taxes and it seems to me of the federal level the employer rate is down just like enrichment but the fundamentals are not sound. >> saw the piece that you wrote last week you are right on the many -- money that racial tensions are at their all-time high.

you get that at 1% growth because people feel you are competing against each other we should never have that feeling that three year 4% people are not on each other's case the slow-growth is causing that then talk about the labor force participation rate is right on the money but then for the rest of the world the chinese and the indians they are working hard. i have indian friends who have a phenomenal work ethic . you cannot make decisions for the commonwealth of virginia at a minimum wage of $15 but our competitors are laughing at us. really? you don't have productivity bayou wage -- raise the wage rate? we have to bring up our productivity levels but the

wage rate is the same as productivity few raise productivity their wages go up. >> are they still trending? >> in the short run but long-term that is what you have to focus on. >> the point that you made and he was from the "national review" pretty much talking about race relations but that is a great book to talk about appellation of -- appellation as well. ben reed talk about a couple of other things like the book writing process.

this is a very thoughtful book and i have written a book from my college roommates 30 years ago. [laughter] and i found the process to be therapeutic and enjoyable but i tried to carve out some time like a weekend to get into rhythm. some people get up of 5:00 in the morning before they work out or go to the hill. as a member of the when you are home? meeting with constituents, obviously a family man how did you find the time? over 200 pages. >> zero lot of it was already written i was an academic 80 years and had a

couple of books started. but then i had a philosophical and that was to open the question with the 2000 year search for that to break it wide open if you want the world class philosophers to replace it. so that is what got me they don't have a coherent philosophy. to set want to give it to you for free. but that crack up that we

don't have systematic theologians right now. that period there is very little systematic thinking wrote a book gone that with economic notes from my lectures over the years and the few books people will see that embedded in the book and those killer apps that make it unique you'll find that so i have all these big ideas and then you think i forgot to put that in their. but for common knowledge laugh laugh. >> that is everybody's problem that is the way i

did it. big chunks. i cannot write a few pages i write for a few days in a row and then to give up the computer. >> going back until think by name but you have mentioned three teachers that were mentors can you share who they are and how they have an impact? >> if you're from michigan offer of lake michigan and i had a my preacher in the reform church scottish reform presbyterian but he

had is a great systematic bankers and was great to have them as college kids you don't have iraq altogether but i saw lead a christian concern looks like not only of my finkel for this to do that with my life so i aim to be a professor. then there are plenty more. >> i am friends with both sides of the ideal. and they got me with usaid. but so great people all the

way along the line will help you grow. so i want to pass it on at the end of the day to say i am not teaching let's put some of this in action. >> so what is at typical day like? on the day that we have this conversation what is it like? if you get up tomorrow you do what? >> you just had over one month at home but three weeks in a row in washington d.c. again upper leap to go to the gym to work out and then you go to the budget committee meetings to work

with constituents to get a head that bonn would is coming at us to work with the staff then you go home for three weeks then go home for one week to do the politics and run for office. and i promise to be in every county once a month. that was not clear thinking that was a doozy but it was great. >> we just had lives change in virginia and yours changed somewhat how has that been to have the district that you are used to correct. >>. >> is okay. i don't know how what happened. is a blur. i taught my students 18 years now there are dispersed through the region but you almost wonder somebody designed it and to

run through them twice. you can meet to new people pet it is hard work. you can introduce yourself to share ideas when you are new people leprosy skeptical of politicians berger you have to say here is what i believe san here is the proof. >> and here is what you believe it is clear in the book. [laughter] you say the same thing back home and anywhere else. so my sense is people are very receptive to this

conversation. >> it goes back to dick armey and the contract with america. so it is not really republican it is the free market = treatment for citizens under the law. >> for the economic justice. >> the problem is not that they hold themselves to those promises then they vote for what is not the free markets. then i get into all sorts of trouble. you can predict every one of my votes. go check it out. >> care is something important that you pressed

on, november 12th, was this the prediction? >> i got to flip the coin at the last game. that is the love he relationship three captains came up. >> is economic department. [laughter] >> that is great for it was great to spend time with you and thinks for taking the time. >> it is the good interview you took notes and went beyond. you did a super job and has been fun working with you the last couple of years.

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>> this weekend john hopkins ellen silverdale will report on industrial meat production. >> there's good things and bad things with everything the good things are certainly that we have a reliable accessible food supply and just as you said the cost of food in real dollars is significantly less. that is with animal -based protein particularly but also weed and milk. those are the good things. the bad things are that this is an industry that has not really, under the appropriate purview

and that is because. >> the purview of hume? >> any regulatory or even until recently consumer attention. >> afterwards there's a book to be every saturday at 10:00 p.m. and sundays and appear mr. them. you can watch previous after his programs in our website, book to be.org. >> you're watching book tv on c-span to with top nonfiction books and authors every weekend. book tv, television for serious readers tonight a book tv in prime time we want to show you some programs from our afterwards series from this past year. first up senator mitch mcconnell talks about his life and politics with senator lamar alexander. the book is "the long gain". >> it this is the book about a shy boy who grew up in alabama,