the presidential inauguration after donald trump is friday, january 20th. c-span will have live coverage of all the day's events and ceremonies. watch live on c-span and c-span2.org, and listen on the free c-span2 app. >> chandra is a special advicer to the dean of -- the author -- the books, cast what it like to escape slavery, how citizenship in the united states was tran formed. in the "wall street journal" mark smith praised the book, she tells the story of the downwhere toward freedom. we learn something invaluable

about the fragile and chaotic nature of the freedom and enduring dignity of the people who secured it. w join me in welcoming chandra manning. [applause] >> thank you. thank you very minute to all of you for coming today. i'm a tiny bit surprised to see anybody. with an election just three days ago and an outcome that we know is going to make history going y forward, i'm -- i wasn't quite sure if anybody would show up ay but i'm glad you did.he it's a story of refugee see center of american history and skis do ash story about page asking defining citizenship as a day in and dayout basis.

want to talk about how thisf particular book came about, how i came to write it. i'll give you a glimpse into what it says and then i'd like to end with what i hope this book achieves. wayne to start by being if any of you have ever been to a. psychorama, an enormous painting, a sicker already --th sicker -- you walk into thee middle of it and every inch is painted.y inch in intricate, elaborate detail. that's a sick larrama.bl you can only interview total

immersion and you are overhemmed and you have to remain lost and disoriented for a good long time before you have any idea what you're looking at. and that is exactly how it felt to write this book. wasn't prepared for. it's my second book. so i thought i should have figured this book thing out by now and this would be ease easy straightforward. that the first thing i had wrongment but it is a second book so did grow out of my first book mitchell first book is what civil war soldiers thought about slavery. i ended in the spring of 1865 and, at a moment of tremendous promise, where race was concern and rights were concern. it ended as a moment when the united states quickly passed three amendments to the united states constitution.as the 13th amendment, endingut slavery, the 14th expanding

citizenship, and the 16th, extending the right to vote for black men. everyone of them was a revolution, three passed in quick succession. the united states had only passed two amendments ever since the bill of rights up to that point. so it was clearly a rich moment. what i wanted to know us how did we get from that moment to jim crow and the naiari race real rl estate -- relations. que i have thing this book. as i wrote this book about citizenship and rights in decade immediately falling emancipation

and that followed in 2011 to 2015 by the-1/2 over anniversary of the civil war and i received a lot of invitations to give talks, usually about emancipation and citizenship. those should have been easy talks to give. i should have been able to wake in in more than and guy him. i couldn't.s what i quickly discovered was that emancipation and citizenship were two different things and we didn't understand either one very much itch. i beer start understanding the difference between emancipation and citizenship. where it happen? when did people symptom being slaves and start being something else.

a half million went how to the process of exiting slavery in places called contrabands camps those're refugee camps that followed the union army throughout the civil war.ro i thought about contraband camps. nobody else knew too much about them.nobody e people usually get mental images of things like tents full of smuggled cigars. i'll have nice little scene c setter in the introduction section of my book, is take is flays coop -- contraband cam. and decide as to that was exactly like entering the cycles rama to be totally overcome by the details of people's lives inside the refugee camps. i was overwhelmed be the

experiences and is not find a narrative arc to make sense of them, to put anybody in a kissing with each other or the congress or the president or the longer story of how slavery ended.d.pr i was lost and it really, really stuck. was so i just kept going in circle f finally, a basket of eggs drove me first to utter distraction and then to try an experiment. the basket of eggs was an episode i came across involving women in north carolina. she put a basket of egg and her children into a canoe and she walked that canoe 12 miles up the coast to the union army, and she delivered those agencies to the general burnside andel

delivered herself and her children to freedom and that story stuck with me. eggs. eggs. in a canoe. the most fragile didn't take much to break an egg. you had can can can i kids in t. how would she get them to safety?lf a m and get the people to safety. i didn't know if she could swim, if her children could swim. couldn't make sense of this story. and timing stepped in here, too. right about the time the storyry was -- wouldn't let go of my brain, my own kids were facing significant challenges challenge were undergoing intensative testing and my oldest son has autism, and that means a lot of things. it means something spinning -- specific for this story. he has a lot of ways that life is hard but one has to do with how he perceives, how business

perception works. when most of us come into a new place we receive from the general to the specifics. you walked in here today and at first we were aware of ceiling, floor, walls, we know we're in a room and a book store and we are safe. so even though we haven't been here before or not letly or often, we know where we are in space and we're safe and we are secure and we go about the business of a book store. maybe the fill in details. start to notice the book we're looking for, but we notice the big picture first. my son perceived in exactly the opposite order. he is no aware that he is doing it than you are but he beginnings with a very specific in works out. she would walk into a place like this and depending where his eye fell first -- maybe on this end

cap first, and he would have to take into account every single book on the incap. the pictures or at the covers would register, notice the titles and work out there were three rows rows and cubbies ande end have the hold incap in mind and go further and further and a little further, but for a very long time, moat most of the time, he was disoriented and doesn't know where he is in space. it feels overwhelming. it feels panicking and makes it super hard. but it also means that he almost always notices things. that the rest of us miss. and when she shares them, he totally changes my world. so finally got the idea, what if i look at these eggses the way my son would. stop trying to see a big picture they fit in and start with the eggs, what do i notice that i had missed before? what i noticed was that eggses

were probably what the woman had that day. i noticed the waves and i noticed the shakiness of the canoe and i noticed she can't see an outcome to this story anymore than i could. that all she could possibly know were details of that day and the enormous riecks she faced and to decide, take one step and then another anyway. she made me see in a way i hundred before, that to exit slavery was to go up against hard power, with absolutely no assurance of success. to look real threats right in the face that have no idea what would happen. and to do it anyway. and that is what it felt like to leave slavery. and so the first part of this book, troubled refuge, tried to tell the story, the story of

leaving slavery, exiting the state of being opened -- owned by another person. i want to emphasize that woman helped me see that everybody's experience of emancipation began in the details of exactly where they were. and so i want to start with just a paragraph or two from theth js first contrabands camp at fort monroe in virginia. as the story goes, point comfort at the tip of the peninsula,a, mid-way down the atlantic coast of north america, got its name from weary, grateful travelers who spent month outs sea in the 17th century ship gamp teed to milwaukee any landfall look like a refuge. to judge by first appearances the spot isn't that beautiful. it's girded by the atlantic

ocean and the chesapeake bay and the breeze on the summer day brings cool relief. the oysters added a tux of luxury. certainly compared with a reeking, disease-ridden ship, old point comfort made have seemed look a haven or pair paradise. it has plenty of oysters but no water. the 1860s the u.s. soldiers set out to drug a well. they doing 900 feet into the ground without fining a drop then gay up. the refuge at fort monroe wasser in the helping are for permanent. with fresh water no placening stain life for long the first contra band camp doing place in fort monroe.

the camp spreads whether thed union army through the occupied south.th specific places where emancipation began for half a million formerlies. in contrabands camps, black men, women and churn, sought refuge from slavery. they found it in the basic sense of escaping their owner's grasp, but the environment, natural and man-made they encountered there made for troubled refuge. whether the commonwealth of virginia left the union, fort monroe was the honda the user army and is .22 that army that free men ran, making themselves the business of one general benjamin butler. the officer in command. the lives of the three men that meets the other and we local act both later in chapter three. but the brief outline goes like this.

mallory, baker and, dave had been put to work building force-ifications when they learned they're owner planned to remove the farther south to labor for the confederate army and separate themselves fromth their families. the went to fort monroe. the colonel demand their repair, butler refused on the ground that colonel mali used the men to bill fork fission -- a fortification, and sew rules of war confirmed that to confiscate the three slaves as contraband property. in a stroke, butler used slaveholders own ininsisted -- and ilustrate holiday arca creto possibilities unavailable in peacetime.bilities u the phenomenon of the civil war condra -- contraband camp was born.

whenever the army win, men, up and children braced unimagine ayable risks to get there. dogs, union pickets who might shoot at the very sound of an unexpected foot step. deeing the marseest -- masterstd swore he would stone them and sell their children. still they aided eat union army when and were they were able to ban the long downwhere from slavery to freedom. part one of the book tells the stories of the journey from freedom literally in stories 0, people who made the journey from camps kneest kneest and -- you t think of landscape pate i painting to and tells stories of camps in west.

you have to think ofoved m kaleidoscope. so they moved around throughout the weis and west, east and withs, day in, day houston, men, women which children, had to bill a path out of live i slavery and something they hoped would be freedom. love parts one -- part one, clap temperatures and unto because it does tell their stories.s. i'll tell you unof them. a lot of them and not all happy. one of misfavorites takes place on an eye lend in the -- island in the mississippi river near memphis. a won found hers on this island, in a mass of people and done recognize anyone and it's conf fussing and then she hears a vote that sounds familiar but she hasn't heard that voice in

15 years. she turns union and it's exactly who she thinks it is. it's her sister. she hasn't seen her sister in 15 years. because her sister was sold 15 years ago. her sister was sold because the sister's two young boys had been sold away and the sister was grieving and crying so hard, she was thought to be no good north fit for labor. and she was sold. the woman and the sister unitedt and couldn't speak. but there was more good news. because those boys were in thebu camp, too. those stories repeated over and over and over again, and so did some other ones that aren't quite so wonderful. the story of a woman who followed the army through georgia, through through carolina and me ad my fortunately to freedom and then collapses on the beach and died of exhaustion, alone and by herself.

each story i lice a little vignette on the wall, and so in the fir couple of chapter is dry to take you up to the wall and lead ju see the stories and understand each of them as its own self. because we stopped there. if we just told the stories we'd never move into the middle of the room and figure out what the meaning of to the whole transcending the sum of its parts mooing be. toert's a two and three do that. they try to come to an understanding what all of these stories add up to together. and what they add up is to a story of how formerly powerless and stateless people built alliances with the union army and the united states gov. t the alliances they're bill wered un -- built were uneven, imperfect, and did not achiever. everything they hopes they would but these alliances helped to

win the war, helped to destroy slavery and redefined the relationship between the individual and the national government in the united states. they redefined what citizenshipp meant, not just for themselves but for all americans. so part two and three of thiss book tell that story. and they hinge on two central insights. the first is that the risk, of reenslavement was very high throughout and even after the war and that was one of the things that mose surprised me.ft the second insight is that the civil war was a refugee crisis -- civil war emaps base was a refugee crisis. now, the first one, re-enslavement. most wars in world history make more slaves. not fewer. and what i want that to sink in. we're so used to fact that the civil war ended slavery. we forget how likely it was no

such thing would have happened, wars usually make more slaves. the one ended the institution of slavery in the united states. it was not inevitable that ill would do so and the story it did so irmuch more complicated than we naught and don't understandre it at all. until we look at what is going on in these camps between former slaves and the union army. in fact three of this book tells the story. the second central insight, emancipation was a refugeens crisis, helps us see and understand things more clearly. one is conditions. what conditions were like in these refugee camps. what the conditions of exiting slavery were like for many people who exited slavery, and closest thing we have are refugee camps today.re no anyplace you would want to be and today we have a red cross

and a u.n. and there were no such things in the 1860s. so understanding the refugee crisis lends texture to their of what it wag like. understanding what emancipation as a refugee crisis reminds us we have had refugee crises in u.s. history before. refugees are a part of the american story. they are central to who we are. and third, i think underunderstanding emancipation as a refugee crisis helps thank you be stateless, to be uniquely vulnerable. people who study world war ii tell me that the refugees who were most vulnerable were the refugees without passports because you do not have the protection of a national government. and that's exactly where these former slaves found themselves. at the moment they left slavery.

the things they wanted out of freedom are the thing they'd always wanted. awe top my for. the -- autonomy for the families and communities to care for theo people they cared about. t but slaveholders alwaysed a the power to deny them. in the 1860s they didn't change they ever minds and the slaves were into it told these things but what happened is that form irslaves as access to a power. that source of power was the union army and so these half million former slaves got themselves to that sour of power and they allied with the union army, they dug ditches. the did laundry. they nurse in hospitals, they built fortification, took care of livestock, the million and two things it takes to keep a 19th century arm in the field and in motion. when day did they staked a stronger claim to protection from the union army into the national government that a

slaveholder trying to overthrow the national government. before the war it was states and not the national government at that time adjudicated citizenship and the war change that because of what happened in the camps.er second of all, no longer limitedly race and that happened because of what went on in civil war contrabands camps and as a result of the civil war, citizenship involved rights protection and that happened partly because i went on in civil war contraband camps. part two of the book tells the story of former slaves allying with the union army to end way, end slavery and redefineenship w citizenship which sounded like the end but that it here to parts to the book.nd there are no two because is not the end because, as it turns

out, neither ending slavery nor redefining citizenship was a once in for all kind of task.ed so part three of the book is about early efforts to translate that wartime alliance between former slaves and the union army and national government into a f peacetime alliance. and that translation resulted in the 14th amendment which i ased an imperfect bargain. so let's end today with a couple of thoughts on what is i hope this book will achieve. i'd like it to help lay -- lead to a deeper understanding what it was really like to exit slavery to from being a slave to not bag slave. i'd like it to make ity impossible to ignore exactly how great the threat of re-enslavement what and how long that risk laughed. i'd like lead to and understand hogue former slaves, women askr

children, both of whom worked for the union arm request -- how they helped win the warm and ene slavery and also redefine citizenship for everybody and not just themselves. i would like if his book other other end appreciation for success and failure bound up in all of those things. none of those things, the end ago slavery, winning of the war, redefine of citizenship were triumphant. seems structural forth forces destroy and- -- and sometimes evil people just plain won. this abolition of slavery was one of the most revolutionary things ever to happen in the united states but but tragic tragic and reverseible. our job is to protect it. because it remains fragile, even today. and finally i would like this

book to instill a appreciation for the definition of citizenship as an ongoing project. sometimes citizenship borders conditioned and shames they shrink. that's true in every era, including our own. and so defining citizenship,p, giving it meaning, in people's lives was not just job of people who lived through the war. itself is our job, too. every day. thank you. [applause] >> i would love to take any questions. in the back. you're next. >> i'm curious how much, if anyp direction union field commander> had about dealing with these -- situation oar just winging it?

>> that is a lock and complicate story which is defendant any -- definitely in chapter three and chapter four. was there direction and yes. what is clear and straightforward? no. so the direction comes almost immediately but then there's added on to in piecemeal fashion as the war unfolds. butler make this decision in may of 1861, and the war department immediately endorsed the decision, says, yes you did the right thing some other commander decide the same thing. you shouldn't send slaves back. but then in august 8th they expand that tacit endorsement with instructions from the war department and those instructions have two parts one said soldier does not send slaves back. but it also says soldier does not entice slaves to come into camps in the first place and reason is because slavery should be adjudicated by civil and not military authority. so who is and is not a slave, that's to be the decision of

civil authorities, not military officers, and one of the concerns central to the civil war we miss is real fear about what the relationship between civil and military authority should be and the unraveling unf slavery delivered over that relationship all the time. so when the orders come out you have commanders seeing either part a or b. c and folk tuesday on the don't send them and those who -- you have other commanders to focus on part b, and don't entice them and do the best to keep them couple. of you're tennessee or arkansas and want to run you have no idea which one you're going to get. so the risk to you is acute, and then increased a their would went opt bun the main orders were august 8th. >> you mentioned it's up usualal to hey three amendments to the constitution pass quickly.

did the form are confederated states vote on that or just the northern states? >> that is a click indicate complicates it out as well. the 13th amendment is passed before states are back in the union. and ratification of it becomes a condition for entering the yuandown. if you want back in you have to rate identify the 13 them. in the 14th and 15th, it's similar. so, those are in fact ratified by most of the confederate states. some hold out and actually don't for much, much longer.old out but ratified under a sort of duress. >> after the -- the political argument for the amendment started, hoe -- how was the

storyimpact the argument and the debate? did the field commanders argue for the amendments? >> the army is absolutely behind the 13th amendment and even the 14th amendment, but the 15th amendment, soldiers had gone home so it's hard to getting voices. they're absolutely behind the15 13th and 14th amendment, mostly. you can fine exceptions. and the reason is twofold. one, by being in the state of the confederacy they are convinces that's slave iry started the war so if you wants to win the wore and keep it won you have to rip that thing to out by the roots ma m make sure it doesn't come back and that's with the amendment. the 14th amendment, eve an the passage of 13th apple, the

threats, real risk of-if not the institution of -- re-institution of a legal slavery, certainly conditions very like it, remain strong and so part of what the 14th amendment is about is securing the 13th amendment. much harder to re-enslave someone if the other thing that the 14th amendment does is -- and the 15th in particular, is they help the republican pear, the party of lincoln, have a coe constituent si in former slavery states. they're hoping the hope is they would be able to build a republican party in the states of the south. >> your first big book was about soldiers and camps. this is about contrabands camps how much did you get from the

first topic to to second topic if i'm not asking too much, what might be next in your mind? >> the a. deal wiz question b. it's much easier for me to city in retrospect and this is -- chat things look like in 1865, the year immediately following the war. the amendments are nude fluid, political claim and i began by wants to no how we got from that to the 18 90s and the 20th 20th century, what happened in the interim. not just years layer but what happened immediately after and the decade after the war. that was the first question i began with. but i quickly discovered i didn't know enough to answer that question. so, i had to go back and lad to

look at whether freedom began where emancipation began and that put my back in camps and soldiers. saw some of the same guys. i'm looking. that from the other angle which was -- to a fascinating experience. that's the relationship between book one and book two. i was talking to people over the weekend, and i joke living said, i want to write next as ensays about not having a book to right i writelight out in and so many people said they would read and it it been essay about living in spence, living without a clear story line right now and this book -- writing this book gave me an appreciation for the moment's in-betweenness. if if could write anything i would probably write about baseball because i need a back. but i don't know what i'd say

right now. >> can you talk about what actually happened to the former slaves that fled the country and camps after the war as over and what happened to the camps? did the go back to where i thehe came, stay put? how welcoming was the community that surrounded them? >> that varied just as minute as what happened during the war.ro to be honest what i really wanted to do was to go a full decade after the war and follow where people went. i ran out of steam but i also -- but also the story of the war itself -- so much more to it than i thought that they became two separate stories for me. what happened to them. some of the camps stay and you would recognize them now as, example, arlington national cemetery. freedman's village, on the estate of robert e. lee, was

contrabands camp during the severely war. and it was the inhadn't tenants of freedman village that first dug arlington cemetery. dug the graves that became arlington cemetery. arlington is a very moving place for lots of reason buzz one particular one you might not have known if you to section 37, there's row as recovery of graves that just says, citizen. citizen, citizen, citizen. freed people from freedman village who died and were buried in arlington cemetery. that was almost to the turn of the 20th century. others -- in urban areas, becoma neighborhoods. back -- they say african-american neighborhoods for decades after the war. but there are plenty of camped that crumbled. once the union army is gone it becomes less advantageous in

terms of protection to have a bunch of form are slaves ally one place at one time abuse of the confederate soldiers come home. when they're not there there's an obvious advantage. but the advantage isn't obvious an the war. so people leave, they hit the road, try to find their loved ones they haven't seen in 20s ty years. after the war, the tents, things that -- the army supplies are regathered ands' of them are kind of left to their own devices. so, the story of what happened after is just as varied as any other part of the story. during the war some people went north.th and the summer of 1862 in tech, grant gets the idea there's labor soldier on northern farms -- i have a butch done

bunch of people we're could use something to do and i got a war to fight and they make the feel vulnerable because they're a flank i can be attacked on so he organize his transportation of former slaves in camps along thn mississippi river into the states of the midwest.is the did with his lincoln's blessing. weeks for mid-term elections of 1862, one of the complimentaryel inastute things lincoln ever did. and you know how they eye lex of 1862 went but the ickes -- the moder mid-term elections to which the former slaves went did not go well for in the republican party. sin to indiana and illinois and voters might have thought a that -- i -- getting rid of slavery, but i don't want that in my backyard.. a lot of nat 1862. so after that, rather than the

government do it, chaplains would do it send former slave to their own churches and communitieses and that went bet-under about remained uneven at best. in the back. >> i have a question about your sources. how did you find these stories? the story about the eggs? >> i could talk about this all all di. the first book rote was about union and confederate soldiers and sources are easy. you find that people read mail and you read and it they tellout what they thought. that was verify. but the that was straightforward. but the i'm ion interested in don't write and don't read andte finding their stories was very different process, and one over the beauties of both the army and the federal government is

that they wrote everything down. so, using war records records ad government records in ways that they makers of the makerser in envision or expect elm one or quartermaster's reportses. they're in charge of low logisticses in casemates at the quartermaster records his things like how much rations are coming and going out. if there's a sudden big huge jump, and no soldiers move, i know what happens. i know some people that came. the records of who is on ship is going up and down the mississippi river, same thing. so i can track people through little bitty pieces like that. there are some ledgers in the imagine archives listing them names of poo who were contact teed work for the government and

could i find those names and i sometimes i can trace those anyway.. s back to plea war plan plantation reports but any favorite source or transcripts because former slaves testified in the marshal law course in the public mother marshal courts and the different is that theen testimony of african-americans was accepted in the provost te marshal's court, to good rein. this want the union to win. so their tim -- the transcription of testimony is faction and there was american freedoms commission it was authorized by the sect of bar and congress and consied of people to travel to contraband camps and report on conditions

there, and i they'd it by interviewing people, and making. transcriptions of the interview. so thousands of pages, on miketh microfilm but hand wherein. that where the eggs come from. there were a lot of missionaries out there, people who go from churches write back what they see and who they encounter and what they're doing. there are some former slaves you can read and write, one is born a slave in savannah, georgia, and makes her way to camp, writes her life story later. and pension records after the store. when black men joined the union army in the later year they are entitled to a pecks or if they die there are mr. survivors. normally get to pension you have to produce a birth certificate, peop

major marriage certificate and they don't have that so theyey narrate what happened. that's where i found them. >> yes, sir. t >> i'm a minister so i'm interested anything you have to say about religion, and the few things you said.fi say more about that. so, religion. say more about that. >> all right.ou the first thing i should say about that is you'll be delighted know there is a young woman named abby cooper who is writing about religion in contra band camps. log for her book when it comes out. religion is all over the place. it's in the book and obvious in and nonsound obvious ways. union soldiers are quite fascinate we in the question of form slaves and religion. they're fast fascinated about

the ways that form slaves practice and also they are -- they're fascinated -- well, get this out of the war fascinated by what they say as a gap between former slaves in fer venusian religion and particularly in family relationships, preproductive habits, unseemly common e commentary 0 of child bearing by enslaved women and soldiers and even ministers are -- they can't figure out how people who are still valerie and sincerely religious seem not to take those adultery commandments somm seriously and not recognition of, i wander about conditions under slavery would make the standards to which white middle class people could hold themselves unreachable.

so that's the sort of unseemly side of the religious question. but i will see say that the charges and people who come to churches from the americanri missionary association aress struck by slave religious expression, i think we should be struck by it, too, because our stories about antebellum religion, we know that most or manslaughters are christian but i think we have visions ofons oe struckly sir culp described. i'm noor see we wreck any at the going recognize the religious expression that come outs of the camps and in south carolina, it's probably elsewhere bit i but i say the most in south carolina, women at the age of 15 become leaders in their

religious communities. and if you want to get anywhere with the whole community you have to figure out who is seen as the relation or spiritual leader among the women and that's how you get anywhere, and there's a woman -- new england woman from masts, harriet ware, and the wants to start a school. and the freeman want school. no question. but so their shat harriet ware. so harriet figures out onpegy is lead are of the prayer circle so she befreds aunt pegey, she makes her mind up andary everybody comes to the school so definitely a -- not autonomous within limits community -- faith community, think, among former slaves, and then finally, i think that it takes a great deal of faith to do what some of these people, to put your kidsso

in a canoe and go up the coast you. have to believe in something you santa see to do that. union seconds were told you were told terrible stories what would happen if you came to us. wide did you do it any? the answer was because i knew you couldn't tack my anywhere that just wasn't, and than jesus wasn't. don't think we can understand the plight of so many of them s without an appreciation for that force. anybody else? >> a couple questions about the amendment.qu you said the 13th amendment was pass build the states that remain in the union. but didn't the union government not really recognize secession? just sort of convent to just to ask the more than states to ratify? >> they didn't -- the understanding behind secession,

it's illegal but so is murder and murder happy happens anyways so once the war is over, andin they're out for a while, then congress can pass the amendment and it does, passades early. but to get back into the union a condition of being readmitted into the union --ry readmitted i mean representation in congress. mean civil rather than military authority. in order not that to happen, states are required to ratify the 13th amendment. [inaudible question]ment. >> they are -- well, there's argument whether they revert to territorial state or not.t they're not outside of theev united states but there is -- they are treated almost as territories in the period immediately following the war, they've readmitted into back into the union. so they're part of theout and as

soon as i can show they're capable of state government that is loyal to the united states, then they come back bam in and they way i show they're loyal is ratifying the amendment. >> ask the about the time offering the treatmented. the 14 was secure from the -- [inaudible question] of does that answer the question why they weren't all done together. >> the 15th was to secure some problems that the 14th. the 14th amendment does not include a provision for voting. and it doesn't because citizenship is an ongoing -- defining is ongoing process we think citizenship means voting but those or two different things for most of u.s. history up to that point. so the 14th amendment doesn't automatically include the right to vote. the republicans who passed the amendment hoped it would lead to right to vote but voting has always been a state matter so

there's a sort are tricky mechanism in the some amendment that its framers hoped would encourage states to extend the franchise to black men on their own accord and make that happen at the state level and not in the national level. what that was was representation within congress was a function not of straightup population but of building population and the hope was that georgia or whatever would want more representatives in congress andt so the way to get him that wasre enfranchise move or the population 50. % of your population, georgia, you can join right now and goodded to not to. so once that happens, clear that confederate states we happily forego congressional representation that's lan pass black suffrage, and the 15th 15th amendment is give them a con constituency in the sawing so.

>> so slaves were couped three-fifth'm of a person. theye >> your talk about three-fifth not of a compromise. representation in congress is afunction of -- for thorne states a sunks of all the white population and then three-fifth not of the black population. that was give southern states massive overrepresentation in congress because of course the interests of slaves north represented in congress, but the owners are vote that's thrown out once the war happened. overrepresentation is part of made there is a mess. if you want representation in congress you have to show us that the interests of everybody and really former slaves, are represented in congress, too,

and you do that be enfranchising black black voters to 14th 14th amendment -- the 15thon 15th amendment gets its back um because everybody who is -- everybody is counsel it counted forked soing. make sense? thank you very much. all of you. [applause] >> thank you for being here. that wasful and also to remind anyone who came in late that books are available for purchase at the register and 20% off today and the signing will be here in a moment.. thank you for being here. [inaudible conversations]

-- foreign to talk about -- important to talk about is

asking the women to take on the roles because no man was willing to do so, and women, because of how we perceived their roles as leader, because of unconscious biases, are still seen as something of an odd duck. particularly when the get into the senior role. so they are subject to greater scrutiny but by same token they're more willing to take on some of these high risk assignments because they want to prove that they can do it. in mary's case, she stepped into a company that was doing relatively well that at thyme and then the proverbial can you know what hit the fan with this huge re-call crisis, many deaths because of the problem is with the cars and i think frankly there were many doubting thomass who didn't see mary as surviving what was one of gm's worst crises in years, if not ever.

and i think to her credit she not only weathered the storm but took personal responsibility for getting it right and making it right, and she made it here in her town hall meetings that she did with gm employees she was holding else conditionable for fixing what was going wrong, and i think she weathered the crisis like so many other women that i interviewed for this book. they over came crisis big and small, and they became better leaders for it. i think mary today is a much better crowe than at the outset, not just because she is more experienced because she had this trial by fire. >> arizonawords airs only booktv every saturday at 10:00 p.m. and sunday at 9'm eastern. you can watch all previous ward "after words" programs on the web site, become of.org. , the state hospital, i had to puttin'sy women. i had.

to this asylum was opened in 18354 to relieve overcrowding at worcester state hospital. basically the fifth hospital to be build on the thomas kirk bride plan, which was really popular at the time for these places the reason this is significant to me was that honestly -- i started all of this as somebody who worked in the mental health field. i worked in private inpatient facility and children -- which pace basically the enstepchild of the aasylum and i just read and read and read about them, and i kept hearing about one called -- philadelphia state hospital, that had a really uniquely terrible history, and so i went there and that's a whole long story for another presentation, but basically

these places were what really got me interested in abandoned buildings. went to other asylums and then found schools and factories. potten, obviously is not philadelphia state hospital. but i think some of thing is is shows, has the dichotomy. the absolutely elegant and gorgeous architecture that symbolize this commitment that people had to carrying for the less fortunate. when these places were build, when dorothea dix was campaigning for their state hospital to be created she wanted people that were mentally ill to not have to be in the streets and poor houses and prisons and locked up in their relatives' attics and this was something where there was a lot of idealism and ambition involved. we they were building them. something that towns were proud of. they petitions for them. totten petitioned for this

place. they had post cards, look at this grand institution we have that defines our town, right? but then as the years win on, underfunding, overcrowding and injured staffing became problems, and there's a number of things but again, i don't have enough time to go into all the factors, but one of the thing us this rise of eugenics which is kind of the seed ling that the final solution grew out of. this basically people with enfear you're again genes reproduce and then drawing drag down society and we should remove them. that was the freedom unanimous thinks that came in the asylums and the other thing, too, west after the this view it's people that were crazy or if we're nicer than to put it that way, we sigh mentally ill, but that's a fluid kind of definition. there are all sorts of things

that people would be committed forment lou reed was committed to an asylum for being homosexual. if you were efem meant or too masculine as a woman. if you-under husband wanted to he cleat on you but didn't want the differ grace of trying to divorce you, if you greater wanteddor land -- so many different reasons. one of the ones that i income stood out the most to me was a guy who was a turkish immigrant and people didn't understand him because he spoke turkish so he spend his life in an an aaa sig- assay lie almost -- asylum. someone was put in because the didn't like housework. they were pet in places for the whole lives and forgotten, and

so the thing about totten is -- and the asylums in general are those those the places that get kind or awakened me to feeling like there is places that were rare by photographedded when they were operational. rarely traveled after they were operational and to yet there are storied thatted nod to be told and they're being left to fall apart like this. >> you, can watch this and other programs online at book therefore.org. chines, where history unfolds daily. in 1979, c-span was created as a public service by america's cable television companies compd is brow brought you today by your cable or satellite provider. >> up next on "after words," joanne lublin discusses her bork" easterning it "and shers her own experiences as the first deputy bureau chief for "the