times already and in any caseou i've gotten them all. my name . >> the i am here from the "washington post" and about 18 years ago with my stepdaughter the time. >> we cannot hear you. >> this is a technical problem they have to deal with. >> my stepdaughter waser and we working in "national geographic" asking she can

bring home a friend and immediately we were enchanted with her but now when the most respected and accomplished and writers of nonfiction in the united states. [applause] >> pet isa very briefly what an incredible honor to sit here with jonathan as a huge figure in the world of dark - - journalism and if by some crazy chance if you don't know his work diverge you because it is very humbling nation be

interviewing gnp is a much interesting figure. >> flattery will get you everywhere. >> we will get to t11 soon enough but i have a couple of questions about how you got to this point in your life. to have the tight reputation as a tight publication so what influence did you have when your own evolution? >> and i learn so much about storytelling in the world is full of fascinating people and stories but most of all i've learned about research that you need to dig deep

need and find the people who believe the of the subjects that you looked into. to be working on your cat'som one day so that really fluctuated so the one consistent saying care out those that now live very well and you need to find that person and make them your friend. >> the subjects involved traveling to a dangerousge place so tell us about those challenges and apprehensions >> i first heard the story

of having lunch with a friend of mine who wrote the book 1912 end this is the of bold move selection have you heard about this trip? election in the amazon after that election the because of his active political career i started to research that. into the library of congressow,r but there was murder and drownings in then even with the amazon the biggest ecosystem on earth so was hooked right away but it is daunting to take on theodore

roosevelt. >> to take on a book. but i was really excited about it because there is so much to work where. and i knew how to do research thinks to "national geographic". i did go to wherever that was so incredibly free votech ih in the amazon then it went to northwestern brazil and rented a plane and flew for hours. >> how did you get the money to do that blacks.

>> fin and just for the book came out it is difficult for me but one part when you sell it and then when you turn in the manuscript then it comes out and that is how i used it. >> i thought you would fly yourself.[l >> no. >>. >> in dealing with a great you seemple use seen endlessly curious and afraid of nothing.

>>. >> but with winds tend churchillian garfield. >> so what interests me talking about is earlier i like to read biographies a personal story today given deep and that moment with

the triumph of infamy with that more private moment the struggle if that was desperate like winston churchill and then those moments in this something that we all share that day is when your true nature is revealed. >> so i had her the story 25 years ago negative husband was uh journalist and began his career in south africa. and when i met him 25 years

ago he said do you know that winston churchill was a prisoner of war in south africa and he escaped? me, how and i thought you are kidding me how do i not know this? an and then to go from there. >> but with at ur the disaster is more a wonder if that was in the back of your head? to meg tilly jihadist nothing was. [laughter] >> but to be honest i have

three each kids with day normal day-to-day life with laundry and dave plans and then when i go to my office and close the door i feel like i am going back in time. and to fighting that's fair i didn't set out to say this is what i want to write about but i do find it provocative by a do feel you can see it or smell it but

especially there is so much primary source material for with that narrative narr nonfiction slow there are times when the research takes me most of the time i feel like i will never get through all of this. >> of course, there is the problem of seeing what to use. >> so you have to whittle that down but it feels like

that informs me you truly have to understand so whether or not makes it into the book i've understand this event much better because of that to my but the early 20th century is a lost world andante incredibly dramatic way. >> with every conceivable way and it is fascinating to

see that through his eyesas but then to change that hasnc a romance but william manchester that that led him to see in the globalization glorificper cody would greet ? [inaudible] >> yes, do. the british empire was huge

but to them the colonial losing t all about gallantry using their redcoats and it was in a perfect and precise line. and with the beginning of modern warfare but there was a guerrilla fighting and concentration camps and modernization of weapons but it was completely different. >> q right splendidly. boer pr >> is that very strong?hings are

and fortunately things were changing the lot. they were very independent neighbor very religious.eat and that was the great tract hundreds of miles into the interior set up by the fact two years earlier the british empire abolished slavery. . .

he did change the experience in south africa. i kept thinking as i was reading your book. >> absolutely. he was a bundle of ambition. the one description is true throughout his life.is feelingsh >> is that his feelings on his father? -- rich. the ambition isn't that commonot in math class. >> it's looked down upon. his mother, a beautifulan and h socialite, and in fact he told

his mother this is the pushing age. so she was very connected. she had all these powerful men who adored her, so he was having her help me out. he thought that's th that the br me to win fame and propel myself to political power. he called it a gateway to you distinction. >> his first love, pamela.l of h he said you see all the thingsat wrong with him >> he's overly ambitious but incredibly, incredibly arrogant but throughout his life it is absolutely all about him.

and i found it entertaining because again and again in the letters and journals and articles, people would say that winston churchill, i can't stand him. he's going to be prime minister one day, that he drives me cra crazy. >> in south africa he ordered a soup and went to south africaof with cases of champagne? >> and his valet. he's willing to risk his life but he is civilized while he's at it. but what's interesting about him to be at this point in his lifetime if you look at pictures of him, you almost don't recognize him. we think of winston churchillch during the war. he's overweight and over and he's got a cigar in his whiskey.

this one he's young and has red hair and he's energetic and is the one throwing himself into war. but inside, sees the winston a churchill we know and it's re fascinating to read that letter he wrote at the time. there's one in particular he wrote when he ran for the parliament and lost. but during the election, he is loving all these opportunities to be on stage and he writes to her and says they don't know what's going to happen.t i don't know what the outcome will be but i feel my growing power. covered, >> something you cover in the b book, what happened to him and pamela? >> he was in love with her, this beautiful young woman. he met her in india when he was fighting in british india and

when she went back she had many admirers that he was in love with her and wanted to marry her. a he didn't think that churchill would amount to anything. >> [inaudible] for "the wall street journal" last week described a smooth writing popular historian. i guess that was a compromise. but it seems to me to be pejorative and condescending. it's being done by academics and david mccullough and your self.

be honest i feel so incredibly fortunate to do what i do. everyday every day i go to workk i can't believe this is my job to read most of the time these fascinating stories. i know a lot of historians and read academic histories andat i respect them. i hope this is a collaborativea thing. there's a lot of people i've met i was never interested insome history and then i would read david mccullough. it made me want to read more so then i started to read more deeply and i felt it is aople w conduit and to realize actually, they do and it is v.'s

fascinating storieb'sfascinatiny absolutely love. >> is a step into the gap that has been left by the decline in america's history. there is a cause to that but the academic historians dig more deeply into the specialized areas with political or ideological. the field is left open for people that want to tell stori stories. we were welcome to ask questions. >> to teach history and other ouings in high school, i appreciate your books. history is exciting. when you take the figures like o you fit in about dealing withill

churchill of course one of the primary sources will be a lot of what churchill wrote but i also find that he exaggerates things and likes to put himself in the best light so how would you deal with the challenge of dealingwan with? >> most of the time he wasn't alone. he went to cover the journalists and was attacked by the words. they had their accounts as well.

when he was on the run he hit in the coal mine. they did a collaborative and the only thing i found they were insistent about this so they organized the attack. he was a very young charismatica exciting general and they became friends sweeter in life. churchill . son said i've done my research and i don't think it could have been. it's impossible to encapsulate those that captured you and churchill said it was, but it aw

wasn't. this is a general question in terms of the writing and hearing about how you decide what you're going to use in your research.vi >> i'm sorry? >> how do you hav you avoid revg history to your own personal opinion on things? do a >> i did a lot of research, and i don't come at it with an opinion.

i started to write about alexander graham bell and i found out they tried to find the board and garfield and i found out i wonder what james garfield is about so i started researching him and he was extraordinary and brilliant and kind, instrumental bringing about black suffrage. i didn't start out thinking this was how i found him and how i try to do it with all my books.

>> in his multi-volume biography and then his various writings was a distinct ideological point of view and may have been bending history. to >> absolutely.that >> i came away after reading this thinking we missed away. as one to hear your thoughts on if garfield hadn't been as fascinating what type of person do you think he would have been and maybe the others. >> he would have been one of the great presidents. he was an inspiration to the country because he had come from such poverty and he seemed to be

together in a way that was a sharp contrast and it divided the country even more. so many people have put so much hope into him. as i said, he was a very progressive thinker for that time. if you can imagine he didn't even want to be president and was shoved into this situation so because of that he was uniquely powerful because he wasn't beholden to anyone. it wasn't something he hungered had beennd succumbed to the presidential fever. i do think that would have made him a uniquely powerful president had he lived and i do think it was quite a loss to the country.

>> we came with a tremendousf lt sense of loss that he never had the opportunity to be the kind of president he could have been. >> you made a brief reference to the policy of the concentration camps which was one of the most shameful episodes in the british empire history, particularly its impact on women and children and other noncombatants. did churchill ever acknowledge that or did that affect him in any way? >> was affected him was his own president, and it affected him deeply. he never forgot it. even though it was completely on the other end of the spectrum s, for those of you that don'tth know, the british have gotten into the war thinking it's goinl to last a couple of months and

it will be out by christmas. it ended up lasting three years and then they were desperate to get out. they set up these camps for the women and children who were supporting these men who were out fighting in the field so they wouldn't have any support and it was a disaster so theys were forced into concentration camps and even more of them died in the war. b the imprisonment they were eager to show the british back they were civilized, too. they were sort of backward and rough. it was more than he ever hated

in any other period in his whole life and he was desperate to get out. he made sure that they had access to the books and tw to te outdoors and they could exerciss or whether they were guilty of some horrific crime and they are still human beings. >> i would like to see the first books were wonderful, some ofgs the best i've ever read. i think the other journalist i just couldn't believe how close they seemed. could you contrast teddy

roosevelt with winston churchi churchill? >> i kept thinking of how much they reminded me at each other. very arrogant, drive everybody around hi them crazy and incredy well read. that is why they really didn't like each other. they did meet and it definitely was a love affair. >> since he was a journalist he had some preconceived notions about the british empire and asa he experienced the war, how did his view change about the empire and did he realize the sun was actually sitting on the british

empire at this time, and i second question, did that contribute to some of the most amazing things he did in life like the battle of london when hitler was trying to take over come i don't ever want to be dominated again. did you see evidence of him thinking towards what the british empire was and how hean wanted it to fit into the world of? >> i think we all know that winston churchill was far from a perfect man, and one of the things about him is that he was an imperialist and very proud of the british empire standing in the world and felt that it was to keep him in track and the board didn't change that at all. another thing on the opposite side of that i will say i admire

is that no one thought harder to reach out a hand of friendship afterward and he was incredibly magnanimous trying to help someone who'd been his enemy and that was true during the war anr got him in trouble with his countrymen. tim he was absolutely an imperiali imperialist. it was an extraordinary book. it was the characters they had with each other and if you have

a tape recorder in your room as i was wondering what you do and how they are saying these things to each other and how you do that. >> my father said the same thing.d this the dialogue is very importantet that everybody knows that this is all absolutely factual and i get that the dialogue from letters and accounts. i was talking to churchill and he said this and that's whered h all of that comes from. very importantly there is a trend in the narrative nonfiction where you get a paragraph about each chapter.

how does she know that he said that, while turned to the notes you you can find out. it takes me a long time before m will commit to a subject. there have been stories that broke my heart because i really wanted to tell them that i finally had to give them up because they didn't have enough primary source materials to have that dialogue or have those details to bring the storydetail alive. so unless i do, i won't commitit to it and i had a wealth of information to work with. >> you may have touched on this earlier concerning the river of doubt. i was just amazed at why theodore roosevelt was doing

this. what was his motivation for doing this?tivati stack for those that don't know the story, he goes down to this incredibly dangerous river that no one knows at least it's the river of doubt and no one knew where it was going to take them and where it was around each bend. the reason he did it churchill would have done it, too. then he loses and he is a pariah for the first time in his life.

he had a depression that haunted him for his life and was devastated. they hired an arctic explorer to plan this trip in the amazon and so they are not even prepared for the collecting trip. he gets in and do minister says you couldn't do that or you could match the unmasked river and theodore roosevelt is going to say no to that? knows what he throws himself into the people with him into outrageously dangerous trip.

>> we have time for one more. t >> i find it so remarkable that if the doctors might have left him alone, he could have lived. >> for those of you that don't know, he was shot in a train station on the mall where the national gallery says there is no plaque or notice at all that an american president was shot here. but the bullet that hit him didn't hit any vital organs. but she had 12 different doctors. especially this beautiful namedl doctor whose first name was doctor. [laughter]

he inserted on sterilized instruments in his back probing for this bullet even though listerine discovered 16 years earlier. so it is sickening to watch this through the lens of 135 years happening to this extraordinary man.s extr so i did the kind of research at the library of congress because even though garfield was president for a short time, a lot of the people surrounded it but i also went to the national museum of health and medicine and if they have the autopsy report their, but more than that i held a section of garfield's spine with his red plastic tin going through where the double

whawould have gone through and y also have strangely what i call bs on same-stor -- call be assan drawer. they also have john wilkes booth in the same drawer. they also have a jar with chunks of brain. he was mentally ill and after he was executed, they claimed his body and wanted to study it for science to see if you could see physical signs of insanity then they sent it to experts about the country.

she is still looking around foro her next subject. i am almost 77-years-old [inaudible] [laughter] >> thank you so much.

>> georgetown university philosophy professor jason brennan provided a critical look at democracies. harvard business school professor talked about the motivations of the white collar criminals. in the coming weeks i think the other aspect of the phenomenon that's important to talk about is the notion that

women because of how we perceive their role as leaders and because of this we are still seen as particularly when they get into the ceo role so they are subject to greater scrutiny they want to prove that they can do it. >> in this case she stepped into a company that was doing relatively well at that time and then things hit the fan if this crisis and many deaths due to the problem they were having with their cars. i think frankly there were many doubting thomas is. to her credit she not only weathered the storm that took a

personal responsibility for getting it right and made it clear in her town hall meetings that she was holding everybody else accountable for fixing what was going wrong. they overcame the crisis of big and small and i think today she is a bigger ceo dan at the outset because she had this for trial by fire. >> every saturday at 10 p.m. and sunday at 9 p.m. eastern. you can watch all previous programs on the website at tv booktv.org. starting right now, in depth on c-span2. the next three hours, eddie