take off her stockings, washes all of the government out of them. something like beauty, the pursuit of beauty was very much tangled up with other social and political realities of jim crow. the pursuit of beauty was one way to strengthen jim crow. it was one way to attack jim crow. it was a set of rituals, a set of practices that were available to women living in the south.how they used it depended on who they were. what they wanted. but it was there and it was true, this women did use it in this way. >> now book tv visits fresno california with the help of our comcast cable partner to talk about author tim holyoke who argues for stronger lobbying regulations and advocacy in his book "the ethhical lobbyist: reforming washington's influence industry".

>> the name of the book is "the ethhical lobbyist: reforming washington's influence industry" . because when you read what others have written about the lobbying profession from that an ethical point of view, a lot of it is about that. all kinds of lobbying are unethical. that lobbying essentially ought to be banned. or that maybe lobbyists spend more time trying to represent marginalized, disadvantaged populations to provide some kind of pro bono advocacy work in the same way that lawyers provide pro bono advocacy work. >> and i sort of felt that that misses the point about what lobbying is supposed to be. which then goes to the question what is lobbying supposed to be. well, if lobbying is going to be justified at all, if lobbying is going to be worthy of some kind of protection, then we have to figure out what lobbyists,

basically on what grounds is lobbying protected in a system of a representative government like we have. lobbying in our system is really only protected under the first amendment of the petitioning clause. the first amendment arguably the most famous on the bill of rights, sees a lot of stuff to many people think about the very last part of the first amendment. the rights of people to petition the government for redress of grievances, people think about freedom of speech, freedom of religion, freedom of press, well petitioning is actually a very old right that comes out of the english common law. >> invites the people to insist that their government response to their problems. >> so we have a very complicated system of government these days. not just at the national level but it's become complicated.

>>. >> in our democracy is hard to understand how in this day and age, if a person were to or a group of people wanted to petition the government for a redress of grievances, they're going to be better off if they employed a professional petitioning agent. that would be a lobbyist. in a manner of speaking, that's the lobbyist job. advocate on behalf of other people, whether those people are organized into an interest group or whether it's a corporation they are lobbying on behalf of, the lobbyist that's what they're supposed to do. they're supposed to advocate on someone else's behalf. as the only legal justification there is for lobbying so any kind of lobbying if it'sto be particular , if any kind of lobbying is then to be considered ethical, it is lobbying on behalf of other people and a lobbyist is lobbying a fax, not even

exactly for what his or her employer wants. >> so that's a sort of basic motivation of a lobbyist. now, the next question that arises from that is why would the lobbyist do anything else? why would the lobbyist ever not lobby for exactly what his or her employers want? well, that's a good explanation for it. a lobbyist is valuable from the market. >> not so much for the people he or she represents but the relationship he or she has built with powerful lawmakers. lobbyists do not directly impact the lawmaking system, the elected officials, members of congress or senior people in the bureaucracy can do that. so for a lobbyist to be influential they have to have access area so a lobbyist is

defined really by the number and especially the quality of the people that enjoy access to. the lobbyist who has access to say senator mitch mcconnell, senate majority leader or paul ryan, speaker of the house, those lobbyist can then charge a great deal of money on the lobbying market case. so to have a long, lucrative lobbying career, a lobbyist needs to have these really, really good, well developed relationships to powerful people and a lobbyist really would end up valuing those relationships potentially over the quality or representation of the people who employ them. in other words, it would probably be easier for a lobbyist to find another interest group to represent that it would be for the lobbyist to try to rebuild a

relationship with the speaker of the houseif something had gone wrong with that relationship . now, elected officials and senior officials in the bureaucracy just because of the nature of our lawmaking system . and you need to put together large coalitions. we have a majority rule system of laws in the united states. you have a whole bunch of people, you get a whole bunch of lawmakers together with different ideas of what the law should be. then they get the majority to bring these law through congress and the next the other majorities to overcome filibusters. even to get a law properly implemented in the bureaucracy would require a broad consensus. that means that legislators are often in positions where they have to be supportive of bills that don't necessarily reflect ideally what the

legislator wants to do. but a legislator is going to need support not just from his or her colleagues but also from their home only constituency and other interests that they are beholden to. and they're going to look to the lobbyists that they have relationships with to survive that. lobbyists may also come under pressure to support positions on issues that tend to reflect the priorities of legislators they have relationships with more so then supporting the positions of the people, interest groups or corporations that are employing them. we saw this actually unfold in an extreme version with the corruption trial of lobbyist jack abram a few years ago. jack abram was supposed to be

representing several native american tribes and their feelings with congress and the bureau of indian affairs but instead to carry a lot of favor with the bush administration and with powerful republican leaders on capitol hill, he relied instead basically kept inventing issues that native american tribes need to be lobbying on and provide campaign-finance or for civil rights, essentially ripping off his own clients to better build up and carry influence on capitol hill. that's an example of exactly what i'm talking about, lobbyists behaving very unethically because of the pressures on him to do so. so this is the basis of the argument i make in "the ethhical lobbyist: reforming washington's influence industry" that lobbyists are under a variety of pressures to not properly represent the positions or defend the positions that their employers ideally want. but lobbying is only protected by the first amendment under the

positioning clause that lobbying can only be considered legal and therefore ethical when bob lobbyist is exactly lobbying for exactly his or her employers want. >> the whole basis of the argument. is that there's these pressures of pulling lobbyists away from what they specifically ought to be doing and therefore before going to have her reform, from the lobbying system in washington dc then we need better laws and regulations that push that these lobbyists to be clearly the holden to people who employ them and to be able to better resist pressure, to deviate away from thosepositions . then i may draw some analogies in the relationship between lobbying and it's really not all that different between lawyers and their

lobbying, a lawyer in court who can have only, who can only advocate for the way the client wants.and anytime the lawyer wants to change tactics, change positions they have to get the approval of their clients. so lobbying should be held to the same standard. lobbyist feels he or she needs to change positions to better with the legislator or his or her access. then the employees interest group or corporation needs to explicitly by sign off on that official. so it's going on all the time. so if were going to have some kind of result, before going to have a better system of laws and regulations , we basically need a system that creates this disclosure of what lobbyists are lobbying for all of the time. and so that's easily accessed by the people who are employing the lobbyist. and that's not all of the lobbying regulations that we

have right now. that might not be the lobbying regulation system we have that identifies lobbying, who they are lobbying for. and maybe this is all fine stuff but it says nothing about what they are lobbying for. so i think those are really some of the biggest challenges moving forward with dealing with the lobbying industry and under more and more pressure, as more people coming lobbying profession, it's going to be more competition from lobbyists who don't build relationships and finite number of lawmakers and that seems to be perhaps more pressure to be more beholden to legislators than to the clients that areemploying those legislators .these big ethical challenges going forward. >> now on book tv a literary tour of fresno california. we hear from journalists mark