no, i said, get this tourniquet on. the third platoon consolidate the dead and wounded and following. we'll take take the sills we can get everybody out. no marine gets left behind. >> you can watch this and other programs online booktv.org. >> this is book to be on c-span two, television for for serious readers. here's our primetime lineup. starting charlotte, michael anthony talks about his transition back to civilian life. at 8:15 p.m. the aclu former legal director, jamil author of the drone memos. about tvs after his program and 9:00 p.m. eastern, radio host hugh hewitt provides a blueprint for how the gop can successfully govern. a conversation with new york daily news columnist. at 10:00 p.m., kay heim awaits

offers her thoughts of the up-and-down sides of the brooklyn, new york. we wrap up our sunday primetime lineup at 11:00 p.m. with a biography of former president, bill clinton. first up, here's michael anthony. >> good evening everyone. welcome and thank you for joining us. i want to let you know about a couple of of author events on the way. saturday at 3:00 p.m. -- griffin will be here with her new middle grade mysteries. on tuesday we have eugene with his novel, -- about a widowed painter in the american experience. tonight, you might might notice we have c-span here with the event so if you can make sure your cell phone is turned off. also when we do the q&a we have a microphone here.

please come up and speak your question into the mic so the camera can pick it up. we are delighted to have you here tonight for two local authors. we have michael anthony, author of "civilian iced" after he got back from iraq he did a bachelors degree. chris welsh's interim director of the writing program and the author of "cowardice" so thank you very much. >> thank you sarah. everybody can hear me okay? >> should i move the mic? maybe i'm just talking really quietly knocking here and michael will do one too. >> thank you and good evening.

it's an honor to be here to help michael launch this fantastic war memo. i'm going to say a few words to introduce him in the book. ask them if you questions and then we'll open it up for euro questions. looking at the book, i was reminded of the image that was going on the internet about six or eight years ago was snapchat of a whiteboard and some military base in afghanistan that said, america is not at war. the marine corps is at war. americas at the mall. it was just the marines that were, the army was too. and with the army was michael anthony who, at the age of 17, fresh out of bridgewater high, joined up

and in 2007 at the age of 20 he went to iraq and help to build and then man combat and a support hospital where he assisted doctors categorizing wounds, suturing skins, sign through lens, and saving saving american lives and iraq he lives. the story of civilian iced is not so much of that experience although that's in the background, but about what he experienced when he came back to the states. and he felt like a vet who no longer wanted to live in the world that he had 54. reentry was difficult. the smell of baloney reminded him of the small cauterized of fresh he said we had to turn

part of ourselves off to survive. the only hard part was turning ourselves on. it was hard for number of reasons. parlay his own kind of self-awareness and vigilance about the project love reentry and it made it difficult. he was a troubled vet who was aware of the cliché of the troubled vet. he. he wanted to remember and also to forget a complicated thing. the thing that made it difficult for him that interest me the most was dealing with civilians of which i am one. the book is really wise and insightful about that relationship or nonrelationship between soldiers and civilians. we are willing, or at least we

tolerate having other people and other people's children put themselves in harm's way. but, we we feel ignorant and guilty about that experience and so we get to the members of an all volunteer military, kind of an indiscriminate gratitude and thank you for your service. or to cover for our own unwillingness to sacrifice ourselves we call all the soldiers heroes and leave it at that. pondering pondering the experience of soldiers and veterans more carefully might lead all too readily to the question of why we, ourselves have not answered or heard the call to duty are more actively supported those who do. or, joined the debate of whether fighting is the right thing to

do. becoming active in antiwar movements. there's conversation in the book about the vietnam vet who might be outside a liquor store where a friendship happens. on the vietnam vet i was telling michael that things are worse for him then they were for the vietnam vet. worse for michael than the vietnam vet. better than someone who gives a dashmac's banana someone is his passion, shaking hands is so, so -- each scratched his chin. michael took a a drag and let it out, passive. people are so, so passive said the vietnam vet.

but that is how it goes. so this is the gap that i found this book so effectively a bridge. a way to help civilians better appreciate soldiers. we want to civilian -- civilian -- soldiers i'm not so sure that's the right thing to do. i also realize something i don't think i want to know more about veterans to make them feel better, i don't feel guilty and that way. i want to know more about

veterans and everybody to know more about them because i think they have a great deal to teach us about the sense of purpose, about the possibility of living and leading us significant part of life by dedicating themselves larger, about duty. and about a lot of the things that michael talks about in the book. he makes this bridge by an away unusual and unique in the memoirs, and a variety of ways it is great writing, wonderful observations and through the humor in the book. i just want want to touch on the passages he laments feeling aimless, jobless, hopeless, just less all

around in the confusion of being a vet. i didn't know what it was that messed me up and i think that's what did the most. the book is also very self-critical. he finds that he does not want to talk about the war and he gets tired of people bringing it up and then he realizes that he himself is bringing it it up. and and that partly it is the problem of peace that he is grappling with. it is a problem that he is well aware in the book and it refers to the predicaments of many others. that lots of vets are dealing with. the fact that soldiers are 50 times more likely to commit suicide at home, at at peace than they are in the fields. it makes you realize what a challenge it is to get

"civilianized". there is a feeling of trying to be as authentic self. of turning back and turning himself in the holding back on the part that he had to shut down. it never quite feels real. he writes, real smiles, squinty eyes. now when i smile, i make sure i squint to. and then is looking in the mirror, the reflection looking back was sad one, bit off center. sounds lovely writing a bleak moment. he is saved in a way by his sense of humor and more particularly by joining a picked up community, savage you a call, pick up pick up artists, saboteur called.

>> the dating community is the people learn how to pick up girls i came back to the were young 21-year-old so i thought whatever he 21-year-old thinks is going to save him and learn how to pick up girls. so i go out and look at all these pickup artists classes thinking that would save me. that would be the crush that would bring me out of the hole of depression. >> there's a few great passages that i wanted to ask you to read. the first one -- webpage are you on? >> sure go ahead. >> this is the thing that chris picked out that he wanted me to read. it is me me on one of these dating courses. there are just throwing motley crew sprays so i'm just trying to save myself and he's just his own crew of depressed guys trying to do the only things as well. i just got mixed in and i'm just

a suicidal vet and these guys are just in their own world are trying to make sense of things. on this is just us out in the town ready to pick up girls. on another note to one of the places that they love to go to pick up girls is a bookstore stew. this is a nightclub. i would almost get the nighttime forever but david did not offer refunds i figured i might as well go. there's another reason why should i. normally they cared to see if david techniques work and meet a girl or two. i had somehow started to feel for these guys. it was like and more. how more. how the relationships forced upon you shoulders don't choose who they share a foxhole with. it's a shared experience that brings you together. not whether whether not you both like video games or basketball, even though -- we are in it together. we pay thousands of dollars not because we wanted to get laid

but not just for that. we do want to be alone anymore. i had i had nominated myself as protector of this motley crew. but after that one of the guys gets in a fight with a boyfriend and then the night goes downhill from there. lots of drugs, drinking, but there are some triumphant stories from the pickup artist community as well. but there is another passage i wanted you to read on page 34 you would think that a young man the veteran soldier would talk to a girl. >> i spent 12 months in a war zone, and in 13 mass casualty

situations help deliver ten babies, participate in more than 450 surgeries and survive through hundreds of her hundreds of mortar rounds. i received a medal, unit combination metal, good conduct medal iraq campaign medal, i could do this. never thought of of talking to a woman amy nervous. the reason i started taking the dating courses is because i was a big nerd in high school. i had this friend who i only found that years later on in high school he would tell girls to talk about bras in front of me. i would get awkward and weird. so it's a big joke to have these girls talk about bras in front of me. when i heard the story later and i remember the girls talking about bras. the first time it happened i froze up. i don't know anything about bras what am i going to talk about. the next and went online to research the broths. and so we goes by and the girls are talking about bras again because my friend told him too and i said what did you know that bras were invented in the 18th century by -- so is that

guy who came back from the iraq war say maybe if i could learn how to talk to girls i would help save me. maybe learning some talking techniques are different techniques would save me. that's the guy who came back taking these courses trying to get himself out of this whole. >> did you give a quick short course of interested parties. >> there's something called the i/o on. >> so these dating courses these guys are computer guys, they they break down every type of scientific study so when you approach a girl you have to approach in a certain way, talk in a certain way. say certain things and as long as you go through step a, b, a, b, c, d, you're going to take yourself take them home. he has -- girls lip and hair touching me on the arm like that means he's interested and then

you can inactivate two of of your plan. so these guys are very methodical. that's way connected with the army said. i would go through drills and basic training, these these guys are going to learn how to approach girls make jokes or something like that. very methodical. >> there is some gripping not battle scenes, but pick up scenes or would be picked up scenes. tell us about the title. how came to. >> it's just the aspect of coming home. like chris said, we have all heard veterans 22 veterans kill themselves every day. they come home with ptsd. we talk about the aspects of war that lead to it. they're more likely to kill themselves at home the network. so if you think about it everything that happens in war makes them kill themselves and then there would probably kill

themselves in war while it was happening. it's a coming home aspect that makes them do it. that's why they don't kill themselves for weeks or months later. there's something about coming home that does it. it's not just the war, is the war of coming home and it's during the transition where something is happening. where were getting those high suicide rates and high rates of depression. the book has what you call a deadline, and that was homage to yourself that you made to end it all. and so even he is having his suicidal thoughts he's going to his pickup classes i'm putting together a dating profile. it was hard writing a dating profile, nothing seems right but it seemed easy to figure out what was wrong. i wrong. i decided to leave out the suicidal stuff. this might be a personal

question but where are you at now in this pickup game? >> well now i'm married. it worked out well. i think the class is hell. i actually never told my wife of audit that i went to those classes. >> she knows now? now? >> not yes, national. >> i told her when i got the book deal. the classes i took it. >> and yet, you still, i saw on your website that -- tout is too strong of a word, but but you recommend it as a reentry strategy, why is that? >> there is that multiple pickup groups. teachers that teach one aspect, another aspect, and this book i only focus i only focus on three or four months after being home.

for like a year after i came back i probably spent ten or 15 grant taking these courses. i took about three or four courses and some are good, some are bad. a lot had some crazy guys in them. the ones that were the best are the ones that are called in her game. they focus on the inner game area so you get the inner game that your game in a girl and then the inner game where people are naturally attracted. what are you working right now? >> so my last one that i went to one was an inner game and i spent like two grand on it. and the guys like you're focusing on trying to get laid too much. what you need to do is go on a note woman diet and give up women for six months. i'm

paying this guy too grand to teach me how to talk to girls. and he says i have to focus on myself. so i said i'm gonna go six months no girls in the two weeks later i met my wife. i gave up on this diet. and that on this diet. and that was the end of that. >> and then as you say on your website, there is some creepy and i don't know if you could give tips to the audience when you're being games, how can you tell? >> how can you tell if you're being games? it's gained? it's really good, you can't really tell. here's a line. someone walked up to you and asked if you floss before or after you brush, that's a line everybody uses. it's a gateway line into a conversation. >> okay. >> it's weird, it will it will make sense when somebody comes up to you and says it. >> how about the cover? i have the color version,. >> that was just with the jacket off. >> this is just redacted

information. everyone note the military document is redacted. it is represented in the redacted stories. maccallum real stories but i like to tell the full picture military stories. i think we just get this romanticized, idealized version of the stories. i think it helps veterans to get out talk about these things. to out talk about these things. to talk about the full stories. that pain people as real soldiers, not just the square john hundred pound 6-foot 1 inch southern boy. you have to tell real people. it's real people fighting the wars in coming home. if if we want to help people we have to see the mess the real people they are. >> one of the things you talk about is that the anger about some of the injustices or corruption that you have witnessed. these are great names, but i don't think their real names of these officers, lally --dash. you say the wrong people being

called heroes. i think in some cases they fictionalize reports and make soldiers, you're forced to take a metal that maybe you do not want because excepting the metal made a superior officer look good. it tears that you more than you would imagine it said. does it still bother you, and why? >> i'll most died a lot of times i think what messed me up the most to seen people, a lot get awards. i can fight wars and almost i and have people die in my hands, that's fine. but just seen like a soul fall apart in front of you, someone trying to lie and do anything for an award. napoleon set along a fight long and hard for colored ribbon. just seen that an action where people are fighting in line for a bit of colored ribbon. it just breaks your heart and

breaks your inside to see that time and time again. and just coming home. one of the reasons i wrote this book was, talk about it in here i was on a date with a girl and she started talking about a newspaper article she read at a local newspaper. a hometown hero piece. how this how this guy is a hero and he's the epitome of the american soldier. she told me about the story and i said i enjoy a good war story and heroes, was a guys name and she said it is lally -. not only was he is a hero he is one of the biggest dirtbags in the unit. so i call up of body mind and of mine and i said you not to believe this. and first thing he said is let's go burn this guys house down. so there was an aspect of people come home and there's a lot of real heroes in the military.

a lot of great guys but there's also great guys that chase ribbons, fight for for a bit of colored ribbons. it happens. what she's talking about in iraq is a bunch of people nominate for these awards. we don't want these awards. we don't want to stand up there and look like idiots. when you stand up there and get your participation trophy. we don't really want to do this. on the other side, you have people who were petitioning to change military regulations so they could get an award because something happened they did not qualified for. everybody wants a combat action badge. and they audience exploded far away from these people, but it was an unexploded ordinance because the terrorist took all the gunpowder. it didn't explode. these guys, they thought they would have qualified for an

award but not really. they are trying to change army regulations to get the award. ugh i wanted me to lie so he could get the award. and i'm like i don't even like you. i would think about it if i'd like to but i don't even like you. it's just this bad aspect. it tears at your heart. when you're fighting for these things you think you're fighting for something. you have the guys wearing the same uniform as you who are fighting for that ribbon. >> i mentioned that passage where you're talking anything i would rather have someone set spit on me that shake my hand. you talk and then there's a book called thank you for your service. and talk about the resentment of veterans and yourself about fawning attitude in the shallow curiosity then maybe they don't want to hear about the non- heroes. but i wonder, how should we, you see a soldier in uniform at the

airport. do you say thank you? do you just let it be? or at the bar where a friend who served, how do you recommend for those of us who are civilians for life to talk to you, per jew, and attitude? >> i will tell you to quick stories. once with the publication. we talked to a lot of vietnam vets. they would say thank you for your service. i would say thank you for your service. this happened to me a dozen of times. a vietnam vet would say nobody that was say nobody has ever said that to me before. i can understand, the vietnam

war is what it is. the iraq war is what it is. so i can understand people had that sensation but to go 50 years and people not recognize that you are willing to give up your life and you went over into this. now i'm the first person to say this to like a dozen people. the other end of this is, go back to one of the dating classes. i took a dating class dating class and this was an inner game on. i remember one scene with one of the exercises were a big masculine guy and we are doing this internal meditation exercise. this big, masculine guy has a breakthrough. he just realized just realized something about himself, something about life. he is having a breakthrough and he starts crying. one of those cathartic cries, a full-body cry and he realized something about his life and he is having a perfect breakthrough. in the middle of this crying and cathartic moment one of the other guys walked up

to him and is like awesome breakthrough, high-fiber, do. he is right in the middle of this cathartic full-body cry. when the guys just like hi5, do. i feel like sometime that is coming back for more. in that zone. somebody comes up and you can be like hi5, do. hi5, do. you don't really know what's going on inside me. and you don't know what you're thinking me for what you went through. just when you first come back you are in that zone and it can feel like hi5. >> we can open up for questions and we're told that you you should use a microphone there so folks were pondering that. and i want to ask you also about there's a couple of things you talk about that help to through life. and not just reentry.

he'd been writing being one of those things, or two of those things. can you talk about that. because with a deadline approaching it felt like it was reading and writing that. >> one of the biggest things that help me is telling you the story about the guy who was a hero, was in a hero and a friend wanted to burn the house down. at that point, i really started thinking about writing a real's war story and telling the true story. hemingway once said if a man can write one true sentence that is all he needs to do. i started writing about a true war story not letting -- for good or bad service a hick of his saying something true. once i had something to focus on besides something shallow like meeting girls, once i really had a purpose again, something to go after that help me. once you oversee that war, where in his own where you have to be

hundred% on your game all of the time. you have to be a hundred% focused and you're doing something that is purposeful and many come home and it's so what am i going to do now. nothing has the same passion and causes you to be on your toes. once i had something to chase after a put my full force toward that help me out a lot. there is a book called flow, he said that we are not really are happiest when we are relaxed pre-where happiest when we are focused in doing something. i think that is what got me in that zone. in iraq i in iraq i was in that zone 24/seven. writing in chasing something and going after something brighter than myself to help veterans, that brought me back to the zone and help me focus and work on. >> and then you talk about

neural feedback which is something i'm not familiar with. >> neural feedback is just something to experiment with vets, there's all the different parts out there but i try this thing where they hook things with a video games with your game. a so instead of thinking about this you'll think about that. so i did talk about experimenting that with a few different things. in the book itself i talk about how, it's an embarrassing story but i went to do this neural feedback thing and it's supposed to rewire your brain so instead of thinking of something negative you'll think of something positive. i i've been having bad thoughts at night.

after i did neural feedback i had a way tutoring. it was my first wet dream since high school in ten or 15 years. so i think it re- wires something in my brain. >> i first became acquainted with your work through the warrior writers community. can you tell us about that? >> it is it is a great community started by this woman, it's a group of veterans that get together and write about their wartime experiences. i think that is talking and sharing the stories helps out just to make sense of things. know that that they are not alone and that shared experience can help other veterans as well. the virginia has done a study in the number one thing to help veterans with ptsd is exposure therapy.

it is not meeting with another therapist, the vets getting together and talking about their experiences. i think is very similar where were sharing the story. >> i want to go back to that question where it those of us who are not fellow vets, how can we help? also going back to what i said in the beginning for selfish reasons, how can we get out of -- those lessons, how can we better interact with them? buying your book would be a good move. in breeding as much as possible. are there things like where the writers have events where they intentionally have veterans and civilians, of course veterans are civilians too. or, are there other things?

what would you recommend to say to that man in the airport, or the woman in the airport with the uniform on. >> it is a tough call. you do not want a vets going 50 years without anyone acknowledging the service. the hardest part is trying to get out there and start the conversations and have the conversations. i try to have a sense of humor just so it makes it easier to talk about. focus on certain things and is going to be her conversation. if we can can make it funny and talk as people instead of just civilian and soldier. we can just have these conversations. you went went through this and i went through this. it's not putting anyone on a pedestal, just having conversations with a person. >> i know know there are some questions like where you and the -- did you actually kill somebody? those are things where i sense

our third rail types of questions for some in a moment in where you're talking with a fellow veteran who is getting competitive about that. and that's interesting to see. in this simplistic, romantic view all veterans commune automatically. but i forget i said, screw his scorekeeping. you do not want to try to play one up. >> yes. it's like -- measuring except in combat. who is that the most times. it is like, sometimes people feel like they have an embargo on emotions. uic a people, i had nine. people draw lines in the sand. i have a right to feel this way but you don't. >> you also are famous for a

joke, and it gets at the sort of a civilian, gets at this question but the civilian veteran divide. is it a lightbulb joke? >> that was a different, it's his comic a while back i made some videos and their famous for those. >> does not about military. it's a joke about vegan. >> oh. >> the next book i'm working on is another memoir but it takes place after this. it's a story about -- are thinking of a different joke. the story about my wife was a begin. i tried to turn her back to a meat eater. the book is called it's not you, it's meat. i made a bunch of jokes about that on you too. it's a vegan joke that went

viral. >> is a lightbulb joke? >> it's an old military joke was like how many vets does it take to change a lightbulb? you know, you are there. who dares asked this man a question? >> come to the microphone. thank you so much. the book sounds amazing. it takes a lot of courage to put yourself on the line in front of the world, not to mention your wife. thank you for that. i have a question about what is one of the things that major reentry difficult but i'm not sure how you feel about it. the concept of moral injury. have you heard. have you heard about this before? >> yes, definitely mention that. >> i gather there are different definitions floating around. the ideas there is ptsd which is a very specific id and moral injury is more of a soul injury which is something that you

refer to briefly. when you were talking about people seeking metals for the sake of it. other people seem people seem to define it more in terms of anytime you go into a combat situation there is a violation of your moral core. so so what you think about that? was your experience? >> i think i probably, myself though more towards the moral injury set of things when i came back for more. part of it is that you, and he had to do things over there, it's it's war. you have to do things and come back in was it supposed to happen or not supposed to happen? weapons of mass destruction, yes or no? was the purpose of of spinning the first place. the people are more concerned about the kardashians and they are with the kuwait's. so i think it's the aspect of what's even the point. part of my diploma knives and

muzzle. in the news right now because isis took it over. even over. even when we left a year later the world have health organization tried to come over and take over the hospital. we can go in there. so it's like, you do all of these things, you save all these lives are for true life on the line and two years later, back to a war zone. so you come home, people died, what for? then you people chasing a ribbon. there are a lot of heroes in the military, but when you see the 2% to 2%, see. see 98% of heroes. >> thinking of it in terms of moral injury, is more helpful in some cases as opposed to ptsd? >> i think moral injury is a hard conversation to have.

people can understand why someone might have ptsd but when easter talk about moral injury it's a different conversation. then you have to talk about what wore really happens. was the bureaucracy of the politics involved. i think that's a harder conversation to have. >> does moral injury have official standing in the military? >> i don't thing is talked about about much. i've only heard it within last two years. >> there's a psychiatrist who talks about it. other questions? >> hello. my question is about the writing process and editing process of this book. chris had mentioned this cookie-cutter narrative apparel with him. you talked earlier about wanting to write a true war story for your first memoir. i think some of those other prevailing narratives that hollywood lately seems to enjoy selling have to do with broken

veterans coming home. some wondering if during the writing, editing and publishing of this memo, where there moments for you where that telling something true, that's not cookie-cutter doesn't fit in, does that feel challenging or exciting like you achieved it? >> one story comes to mind that i wrote about and i thought taking out because the crazy story. even though is true it's a crazy story where it's too. people think i'm making it up. and putting in this one crazy story. the story was, back when we were in iraq we are working in the hospital doing surgery.

and they system actors and searcher, have you ever watched a movie or tv show and someone yells out a scalpel in hand reaches across. that's what i did. i was the hand. so one day during surgery, the anesthesiologist is working on an enemy combatant. he says i have this crazy idea and he breaks up this book on hypnosis. he said let's try to hypnotize this enemy combatant. and unlike sure, why not. the anesthesiologist is like l, i'm in. so they try to hypnotize this patient. is this enemy combatant on our table were just trying to were just trying to hypnotize in. so he goes away, more patients come in. of as long as their enemy combatants we try to hypnotize him. the only reason that we stop doing our hypnosis plan, is

because, at the same time in my unit it was about halloween in iraq. the unit had a halloween party. people dressed up in costumes that they have and someone dressed up with warpaint and cat whiskers. but but he might dressed up as a gangster. so we go to the howling party and he's doing his thing. . . ....

>> at this halloween party, and the doctors hear about this and they are freaking out. he is going to stumble on to our hypn hypnotize plan. par appear we had -- we had to stop that plan. but it is a weird story like i can't tell this. it is too crazy. nobody is going to believe it. that is one of those stories i thought about not telling because it is too crazy. this is just war. crazy think things happen in war all the time. >> in the writing process itself were there cages in which it hard? you are talking about personal matters. was there strategies you used?

>> all i tried to do with the book is break it down to the bear bones. it is a short book and quick read. i try to get rid of any fluff or anything that wasn't part of that raw feeling i was looking for. i wanted a quick book that was punch the gut and you can read in one weekend and feel something. i didn't want this -- i yus wanted something raw. >> my name is ivy. i am 40. i do a little work with the homeless and i was homeless a little bit. i help people with ptsd and war injury and all that kind of stuff. when you started talking about the suicides you sound hilarious. you have funny stories. but i think what you have been skipping, at least listening, is you were very young when you

came back and i was a little suicidal in my 20s and i cannot hold on to why it was. you seem to be more recent. can you talk about the statistics and your well-worth on talking about the stuff going on and we talk about how many a day and this is that. just your own story you come back; why are you? you were young. doesn't sound like you were shooting a gun or maybe you saw a lot of people die and that got to you. like anyone working in the emergency room might have had the same experience you have. why were you at 20 were you so suicidal? can you speak to it? >> one thing a lot of hospital people face is they call it compassion fatigue where it is once you go through that experience all the time. it is similar to working in an er. remember, it is a war zone.

remember what the hospitals experience after the boston marathon bombing? it just wears on you and you get compassion fatigue. it is combined with the moral injury of war because you go through things where having all these people die and you have to turn yourself off. when you are doing surgery, you can't feel for these people. if somebody dies you have to let and become a robot. and you come home and have to turn that part of yourself back on but as you are struggling to turn it bag on seeing the world around you, coming home, people don't care about the wars, you are facing the moral injury of war and people are being called heroes that should not have been called a hero in the first place. you are trying to make sense of it and find your place in the world and just hits you.

i think the moral injury creeps up on you. there is one part that hit for a moral am jury. at one point in my hospital, the commander's were having an award ceremony and shutdown the whole hospital. this one injured soldier goes to the er looking for help but we closed the door looking for an award ceremony. we end up doing the surgery and it is like a five hour -- he wasn't there for a band aid. he sat there for 45 minutes because he was too busy having an award ceremony about the care we were having and the awards

were given to the commanders and not anyone working in the hospital. stuff like that makes you want to give up. you see that and you just want to give up. it is like what is the point? people stink, you know? >> how has it been returning to your hometown? do you feel like you are comfortable where you left off? >> xhou come back stateside, you know? -- when you. >> yeah, talked about this in the book. >> you were back in south shore, you know? does it make you want to go out

into a bigger scale? something like, bigger, you know? >> yeah, a lot of guys when they come back are trying to find their place in the world again and that is what they are really looking for. they come back and it is a different world than they imagine overseas. >> what are you thinking about? who is going to take care of me now? you know, i was a medic and i was taking care of all the people while being a medic and anyway, so like... sometimes it was like i should wear a fucking -- what color shirt are you wearing? >> maroon? >> maroon. i deserve a maroon shirt. >> that is good. there is actually great scenes of michael going back to staying

at your brother's house, i think, and i think you took up smoking between leaving high school and going out and you come back and your brother comes upstairs and he is smoking. >> yeah. those are my favorite scenes in it. >> is there -- i was going to ask you to read from the very end of book. just read from the epilogue. if there are any last questions? yeah? okay. >> i just wanted to ask so, i know your writing is definitely has a lot of humor and dark humor is going to happen. how did humor help in your writing process or just in general helping you get back through everything and the reentry process and yeah.

that is my question. >> okay. yeah, thanks. >> i think it is just how you look at the world. for me, it makes it easier for me to talk about things when you can deflect on how certain aspects of it. you can just throw a joke in there and diffuse the seriousness of it. that makes it easier to talk about when you can diffuse it with humor. >> a lot of the humor in the book is sensational. a lot of them are situations that you wind up in. drinking with old pals out on the pickup scene and getting yourself into -- it really, i think that is part of what will make this book bridge that gap between the civilian and veteran.

while it is serious and does reckon with a very good question about injury and suicidal impulses, it also is really funny throughout. sir? >> one thing i found disturbing in the conversation that goes on about war and veterans is a lot of people try to blur the distindisti distinction of opposing war and the act of not supporting the veterans. is there a particular way to discuss that doesn't din great what soldiers do but disagrees with the way things are being done. how do you see that conversation take place? >> i have heard people saying you support the soldier and not the war. i mean, it is tough. i was just reading an article about how donald trump got

elected and he is very -- we should not have done to iraq in the first place and you know, he attacked hillary and other republicans for voting for the iraq war and how it helped him get elected. but i read a story about a vet saying i was doing this ten years ago people were calling me a trader. i think the conversation has been changing where -- a lot of people supported the iraq war and now it is changing we should probably not have gone there. the conversation is changing about supporting the soldiers and supporting the war and now it is okay, let's support the soldier. we can agree there was no weapons of mass destruction and probably shouldn't have gone in there. it has been changing toward we can support the soldiers but admit what is going on with this war. i think we are headed that way in the right direction. but it is an important think to keep in mind that the there could be a distinction between

supporting the war and supporting the veterans. you don't have to support a war but can thank those people for showing bravery in the battlefield. >> this bit of the conversation turns my mind toward an empathy toward young men who are by the standards of our culture or so many things in the entire human history to be drawn into the volunteer army or forced into, say, the vietnam era which was more my era and not a friend of mine -- actually my friend from high school and i are back in touch and he was a hundred percent disabled vietnam vet.

she was just a dumb 17-year-old who was drawn to the war. i just keep feeling, not that you were a dumb 17 year old, but i keep feeling like there is a bigger piece here which is what we do to our men in this world and that is all i have to say. >> thank you. any other questions? he is going to read the epilogue of the final word. before you start i will say that you will be glad to sign books. >> why these stories instead of

the thousands of others that happened during the same time period? simple. these are the stories that stick out and even though they are silly and all that happened was i got in a few fights, got drunk, got laid and got depressed but some things leave an impressions. you never know what you will remember or what will have the biggest impact. i have only been to iraq once but felt the sun beating down on my neck a thousand times. i remember chain smoke cigarettes and playing guitar and playing baseball in the side of the hospital and the feeling of holding a broom handle as a bat. i remember what i was eating when i heard craze tried to kill himself. and i remember watching the misfits in 37 states come together to run a hospital that would save thousands of lives. that is what memories are for: reliving and remembering again and again whether we like it or not. sometimes a soldier returns home and all he can do is share his story in the hopes of somehow, some way it helps another

soldier make sense of things. the stories may not be perfect but the sharing makes a difference. or so we hope. >> thanks, guys. thanks for coming down. here is a look at upcoming book fairs and festivals. on february, 18th,book is live in georgia at the savannah book festival. we follow-up in match when live coverage from the 9th annual tucson festival of book from the campus of the arizona

university. march 22-26 is the virginia festival of the book. and april 8, book tv is covering the annapolis book festival in maryland and the san antonio festival in texas. click on the book fairs tab on our website booktv.org. (inaudible) >> we are here at the hoover washington office for our monthly book series and partnership with the welfare blog. just a quick general announcement, on wednesday, february 1st at 5:00 p.m.