president of the united states. it is a testament to the fact the american dream is very much alive are those willing to work for it. >> all c-span programs are available at c-span.org on our homepage or by searching the video library. >> this afternoon, new america hosts a conversation on african-americans and the trump administration. we are live at 12:15 eastern right here on c-span2. over on c-span a look at the future of trade between the us, canada and mexico. we are live at the atlantic council at 12:30 eastern. >> the australian ambassador to the united states talked about relations between the us and australia and international trade policy at the chicago council on human affairs. this runs about an hour.

>> it is my pleasure to welcome the ambassador to the chicago council on global affairs. in an effort to take your mind off the record-breaking heat wave that at the moment is across the east coast of australia, we have taken the opportunity to turn the temperature down a little bit for you in chicago. it is about-3°c when i left this morning, not as bad as february in chicago but hopefully you brought some trustee boots and your favorite beeny. it is not lost on anyone in this room that the united states and australia have long been strong allies with shared values and interests. we have been intrinsically linked since the very beginning. many some historians noted one of the consequences of america winning the war of independence against the british was america refuse to accept any more conflict so the prison's in pennsylvania and elsewhere were

cut off to the british in 1783 so it is no surprise a few short years later in january 17, '88 governor philip sales around south head into sydney harbour and established a british penal colony which then became the foundation for a new nation. it is fair to say american fourth of july celebration and australia day holiday have a lot more in common than beer and barbecue. the ties that bind the countries have endured into the modern era. australia has not missed a war. australians have fought alongside the american military in every major war the us has participated. in addition to their cooperation on security and defense the economic relationship between the two countries is and remains robust. yet the recent withdrawal of the united states from the

transpacific partnership and the fallout from a certain phone call between the leaders of the two countries two weeks ago there is some uncertainty about the future of american involvement in the asia-pacific region with regard to australian generals. perhaps not coincidentally china's foreign minister, a week after that phone call. various discussions around the growing relationship between the two countries. and emerging china stretching its influence into south china sea and beyond, the administration, in certain world affairs and for australia and its special relationship with the united states was with this backdrop we look forward to hearing ambassador hockey's issues of the day. before we begin i would like to introduce the ambassador to you. he served as australia's ambassador to the united states in january 2015 and before that

was a member of the australian parliament for 17 years. 2013 he was appointed treasurer of the commonwealth of australia and the g 20 finance ministers, central bank governors in 2014. as part of this role as a regular delegate to the imf, world bank, and various other meetings, prior to his service in government ambassador hockey worked as a banking and finance, please join me in welcoming ambassador joe hockey. >> thank you very much. to all the chicago council, thank you for involving me along today, a few words and also to answer a few questions. the appearance here, it is a

great city with a long-standing relationship with australia and australia, wherever i have gone in the last 24 hours i have been running into australians you are quite right, they are not familiar with this type of weather but hopefully we can have a good influence and we are having a good influence in some of the extreme weather chicago is famous for. of course it was mark twain who said it is hopeful for the occasional visitor to keep up with chicago and given this is only the second time in 20 years i have been here, quite an occasion. prophecies faster than he can make them. mark twain was quite impressive describing the city that works, the city of big shoulders, as something that is moving quickly and it is. it is always a city that is

focused on trade, commerce and innovation. arguably the home of railway around the world. with so many developments that have changed the course of history including first self-sustaining nuclear chain reaction happened in chicago. being the home of route 66 to the place where the car radio was as well. thank god for those long trips and in australia you can drive a day or two and not see another car. and a world series winning baseball team is again something i discovered the deal of the hearts of many americans. talking about the people of

illinois, with how important it is to stand by each other during times of adversity, difficult and challenging at the same time you celebrate the friendship, in the good times. it goes back a long way, we are both immigrant nations. as david mentioned earlier we were in one sense the beneficiaries of the american war of independence, sending their downtrodden here in australia. in those days, the oldest continuing culture in history of humanity, aboriginal indigenous culture and australia. continuing custodians of the land in australia for 30 years.

a boat of convicts show up in sydney. i digress a bit and tell a story. the french were keen to set up a colony as well and at that time the king of france was absolutely delighted with the opportunity to get to the far end of the earth and said up a colony. he sends a well-known naval commander, when he was leaving port in france in a race with arthur philip, he had to throw a stowaway off the ship twice. the stowaway was completely obsessed with australia. wanted to know more. loved the concept of kangaroos, heard about kangaroos and koalas but was literally trying to get on this boat to go and he said if you come on again i will have you flogged, threw him off and

he ran a few days after arthur philip set up a colony of sydney. he had a glass of sherry, governor arthur philip, the british and french were not at war with each other but he sits down and two ships would never sail again. never sail again. the young frenchman that he threw off his ship, napoleon bonaparte, history would have changed quite dramatically had he been on that ship. we had a hand from that very moment. the history that has been forged in shared pain that in many ways defines how loyal you are to each other and really that is where we start. australia made a massive commitment in what was known as the great war, world war i.

it was on the other side of the world and america's population we had sacrificed the equivalent of 3 million soldiers. for a country of 5 million people at the time, we have massive casualties particularly on the western front in france. the commander of the fourth british army directed an australian jewish general, john monash said you have to take this town off of the germans otherwise we are never going to crack the western front. he said i haven't got enough soldiers. they said we are going to give you some of these new americans that just joined the war but are untried. let's do that. the australians and american started training together and formed this bond of distinction for each other based on shared values and then general pershing, and american general found out, we are not fighting under foreign generals, we are not fighting other australians or anyone else.

american soldiers said hang on, we are not abandoning our buddies. start appeal off their uniforms and put on australian uniforms, we are not walking away and purging gave us three companies of american soldiers and added a difference to the americans, general -- delay the attack until 4 july. took the town in 93 minutes using tactics that were the first of their kind and arguably the first world war turned. when america contributed, mobilize 4 million soldiers for that war and it was a turning point, they did say on the back of an engagement for the rest of the world, woodrow wilson in a speech to the congress as president in january 1918 said this is the 14 point plan on which we will engage with the world as america should.

this is how we went to find the 20th century. the american century. there were key components in that plan that are as relevant today as they were back then. in particular, article iii, the removal so far as possible of all economic barriers and establishment the quality of trade conditions among all the nations. free trade, he said, good for america, good for the world, the basis upon which america engages with the world. he went on to talk about freedom and navigation of the sea and that is as relevant today particular the in the south china sea as it was back then and continues to be. and you know what? the united states signed up for that platform. the people of the united states signed up for that platform.

they said yes, we leave an enterprise, we believe in freedom, we believe in democracy, we believe in transparency. we believe in the empowerment of individuals. that they can take control of their own lives. america has effectively forged out over the last 100 years a global empire that for the first time does not rely on the invasion of other countries in order to win over their hearts and minds was the first empire in the history of humanity that haven't had to go and conquer nations in order to spread their values, a unique position in the history of humanity has been given to the united states because the united states embodies values is what happened? people joined up. people wanted to join the great

american dream. americans called it a exceptionalism but it was more than that. it was a promotion of a set of values that was easy to share in all corners of the earth, australia, the united kingdom, canada, the anglosphere but more than that, touches all over the world, walking away from communism, walking away from socialism, walking away from totalitarianism. .. >> the only one. we don't do it because you are the big brother. we do it because we both have

the same values, the freedom of enterprise, democracy, loyalty to family, support for liberty. it's based on that and shared values. and so the last few weeks there's been talk about, well, there might've been some robust discussion between the president and prime minister. that happens from time to time. mateship is about being honest with each other. we call it fitting in. where you fit in with each other. what you so what do you think? you respect each other and that is still the case. it was on the phone call. it is still the case today. whoever the united states elects, it is the prerogative of the american people. and we will work with them and we will work constructively and honestly, and loyally where the values continue to be shared. that's what you do.

that's what you do. and we are ever mindful that there are 150,000 dead american soldiers buried in the sand between australia and japan. america is mindful of that. that's what america won't walk away from the asia-pacific region. all of those souls who fought and died for the values that made america great, they are never leaving those chores. and that's what america will never loos lose and should nevee the asia-pacific region. but, of course, the dynamic shifts. america, somehow, is expected to solve every problem around the world. i get the burden can sometimes be troubling for the american people. when you lose your job in chicago or detroit, and jobs in that going to china or laos or

to eastern europe, somehow you are not feeling as magnanimous as you might have towards international interest. i get that. australia has had that. even china has said that, by the way. china lost 19 million manufacturing jobs between 95-2005. automation, robotics, companies moving their manufacturing to cheaper destinations with a lower wages. it happens. it happens. the question is how do you lift the tide so that all boats rise? america has been good at that. australia has been very good at that. australia hasn't had a recession for 26 years. it's not an accident. it comes about because we've had to cope with the changes in the world. so one of the challenges that we both face is how we can continue

to promote the values and importantly defend the values that are so important. in a military sense australia has military personnel currently stationed in 31 u.s. states. 31 u.s. states. not not many people know that. australia has probably the deepest engagement with the intelligence community of any country in the world here in the united states. certainly on par with britain, maybe even a little bit more. and, of course, until recently we had one of the largest military presences in iraq and syria. the europeans have contributed more troops that until last year we had the second-highest number of military personnel undertaking connecticut activity, as i call it, in syria and iraq, making sure that we

work together with the united states to defeat isil -- kinetic. kinetic. and, of course, on the economic front we have had a free-trade agreement with the united states since 2005. no one is talking about ripping it up here because you have a two to one trade surplus with australia. so you are a significant beneficiary of the trade with australia, and we don't mind that. because some of the benefits are that you have the largest investment in australia of any country in the world. including in particular businesses like chevron and conoco phillips and others that are helping to export massive amount of resources out of our country to the growing markets in asia. by the end of this decade, australia would be the biggest exporter of liquid gas in the world. we have the biggest reserves of

gold and uranium in the world. we're the biggest exporter of iron ore in the world, the biggest exporter of coal in the world. and with the massive growth in asia, in particular with the middle class in asia that is going from 500 million people today, larger than the whole of north america, about the same size as europe, that middle class is going from $500 million today, 500 million people today, the 3 billion in the middle class by 2030. less than 15 years. six times larger, and that's a massive opportunity for the manufacturers in the united states, the service providers in the united states, as it is for others in australia. because resources, even though there are a big part of our economy, they are actually only about 9%, 9% of our economy.

agriculture is about 3% of our economy, beef, wolf, pork, wheat. so we are a big services-based economy. 70% of our economy is in services, education, tourism, health care, nursing and so on. and the united states is a pretty similar profile. so, therefore, the opportunity to tap into that middle class the asia is a great win for both of us, for all of us. and that's why we argued vigorously for the transpacific partnership. it's about american standards,, about australian standards being the benchmark for commerce in the fastest growing region, not only in the world but in the history of humanity. the asia-pacific region. fast growing, dynamic, wealthy, and they come the people of the asia-pacific region, they want what you and we have, what we have.

they want better quality healthcare. they want better quality education. they want clean air, clean food. they want to travel, explore the world. they want nice cars. they want nice houses. the consumer goods that have driven the american economy, they are decided by this massive growing middle class in asia that is going to try the global economy over the next 100 years. that's why you cannot abandon asia. and for the stability of the region, for the benchmarks in integrity of the entire asian region, asian needs you. so that's the message that undertaking to washington, here in chicago, los angeles, des moines, iowa, whatever it might be. there's a partnership, partnership forged in blood, nearly 100 years ago, a

partnership that will continue, sadly, to require both of us to make massive sacrifices, by a partnership that is necessary for the prosperity of the american people and the australian people as well. thanks very much. [applause] >> ambassador, thank you so much for your remarks. we want to get right into it. can you elaborate on the nature of the phone call, what was said? i think people here would love to know more, as well as how your government is responding speed well, i wasn't on it so i can't say. [laughter] >> i'm a diplomat. >> it's good. try minister didn't brief you afterwards? >> -- prime minister --

>> they goes to an agreement made on the previous administration before the election, and the united states agreed to accept some economic refugees from two islands to the north of australia, that australia has had some responsibility for, and australia agreed to accept some refugees under different circumstances from the united states, and under the gardens of the united states. now, these things happen all the time. i understand the president was elected. we understand he was elected on the basis of a certain policy. we respect that, but there was an agreement between two nations, and before the election. and the president agreed to respect that agreement, particularly given that we are close allies, and we agreed to

one of the agreements. that's where it's at. >> what was the response in australia to the nature of that call? in the united states certainly there was concern that it was seen as disrespectful towards the prime minister. >> well, you know, these conversations to happen between prime ministers and presidents, and i get that. i mean, i've been involved in honest and frank diplomatic discussions with people in my previous role as the chair of the g 20, we had some pretty vigorous discussions. but you do that when you know that, when you're speaking to your brother or your sister. you have a vigorous discussion, and people just listen to the conversation i think they might not get onto well. it's just a fleeting moment, a fleeting moment in a larger dialogue. from our perspective and australia, look, there was a

reaction, but we are, it pains to emphasize, and it happened under president bush as well and it happened at various points along the way. the american media is covered globally, and to a degree that is exceptional. the american presidential election more coverage, media coverage and us joy that the coverage got coverage industrially, right? so everyone has an opinion on president trump. and it might be a good opinion. it might be a negative opinion, as if he is here the united states. what we have to do and other countries have to do is remind people that a partnership with the united states is deeper than any single individual, whoever that may be. it's very important that an anti-bush or an anti-trump or an anti-obama mood in various parts

of the countries cannot turn into an anti-american view. no single person totally reflects the attitudes and the vision of the population. and that's what we are doing and that's, our prime minister wasn't going to join the line of commentators in the international sphere, giving a view about the executive order. he didn't do that. he resist it despite provocation in australia, and that's because we are not going to become commentators on american politics. you can switch on a 35 channels in the united states ansi, tree on american politics. we are not going to add to it. >> you no doubt had a number of conversations with members of the administration as well as members of congress after the phone call. what did you sense was the mood about the u.s. australian u.s.-a relationship in washington? >> it's very strong.

i mean, i was quite surprised to receive about probably 20 or 30 phone calls from very senior congressmen and senators. and we were not looking for that. that. it was spontaneous and genuine and heartfelt. for example, senator mccain, his opening words to me, 500 australians died in vietnam. you know, i said yeah, i knew of some of them. and certainly my family was close to being one of them, a member of one of my own family. you know, of course there's a history there. spivak the nature of the use australian alliance which you allude to in your remarks i think surprised many o others in the room about how close we are as a nation to give mentioned 31 states were australian troops are stationed here in the united states, the intelligence agreement and the like.

does this rise members of congress sometimes when you talk with them? >> no. no, the members of congress had a very deep understanding, particularly the intelligence committees, the defense committees, and anyone who's served in the military and the united states tends to know the background. because essentially whatever the united states military personnel go, there's probably a aussie somewhere there, whether you like it or not. and you know, it's sort of the basics. so no, look, there's genuine goodwill. we run the stereotypes of crocodile dundee or hugh jackman or greg norman or cate blanchett so on. not that they are stereotypes. you know, that's part of our mutual indebtedness. it's not going to change spirit

how about the same question from the other side? how do you sense is the mood about the nature of the relationship? what are people concerned about? what are they concerned about? >> okay, my buzzer is going off year. [laughter] look, when america says america first, as someone with nearly 20 or some politics i get that. i get the irony. what the rest of the world is hearing is that they come in second. and they are the losers and america is the winner. america is the biggest military power in the world, the biggest economy in the world and its culture is more pervasive and colorful than any other culture in the world. even arguably the english culture. it's pretty remarkable. so when you say, you know,

america comes first, everyone else comes after that, i get that for domestic reasons. i get that for the worker who lost a job and his housemate in detroit gets, he wants to hear that, but also as long as your mindful that a lot of american companies trade outside of the united states, they actually, they sell goods from a lot of income that comes into the united states, the reason why it is the richest nation on earth is because it exports so much in culture come in manufactured goods, in products and a range of other things. if people start overseas looking for alternatives to the united states, that will have a horrible impact here in the u.s. so when you're the biggest player in town you need to sort of recognize that you've got to leave something the table for the other party.

that's it, american exceptionalism is based on a certain amount of humility. americans are very humble people. they are modest people, humble people. and i get that, too. but that is part of your exceptionalism, that you can be the biggest, the most powerful, the richest and be humble. and you know, i would urge that humility to be a continuing part of the dialogue. >> change the conversation toward trade which are a referee that you were quoted as saying that for the united states to withdraw from tpp was quote q julie come would be quote hugely damaging to the united states reputation in asia. what did you mean by that when you set that? what are the ramifications for the united states do you feel now that we, that comment was made before the president withdrew and now that it has happened. >> it was a very honest

statement and i stand by it, because what america has done is set look, these are the benchmarks we want. we want to protect intellectual property. we want to have a legal system that is fair and transparent. we want to have a dispute resolution process that is fair and reasonable and affordable. we want to have free and open trade where countries are not engaging in either over all covert practices to increase the price of the goods or manipulate their currencies, manipulate their currencies. i'm with that. we are with that. we signed up to it. the tpp actually help in many of those areas. it set a benchmark and you will -- of a fast-growing economic region that hasn't got consistent benchmarks pics of the question is who is going to set those benchmarks? the united states said we will. we will take a leadership role. and they help to get everyone

signed up, and said yet we're going to set those benchmarks and start to remove trade barriers. why do you want to impose tax? tariff and taxes, you would reduce taxes. you want to reduce tariffs. and then the second thing is about 2 20 years ago in order to make an advance manufactured good, you would have componentry for maybe four or five different countries. the raw materials, something would be made a semiconductor in one country, some robotics from another country, they all come together. that's five different countries would form part of that in manufactured good. today it's about 20 countries. so if every country starts imposing taxes, the indigo is going to end up twice, three times more costly. which takes it out of the accessible range for a lot of people. so frankly, the faster we can

remove trade barriers, the faster we can get rid of taxes and tariffs, the better. now, some countries are not complying and don't comply. you've got to bring them along. you got to bring them along. and the tpp did that. and it was based on american values, american experience that the region embraced. now when america says we don't even stand by those values, someone's going to fill the vacuum. >> who do you think that is likely to be? [laughter] >> well, we wait and see us. do you still see the united states as a leader in free-trade? you mentioned yesterday u.s. free-trade agreement hasn't come into set the firing line but do people back at home worry about kind of that's the next tweet of the moment?

>> well, america has a two to one trade surplus against australia, and we are comfortable with that because she are other benefits i had a bit. as i mentioned componentry. boeing planes, boeing headquarters here in chicago, boeing planes, key components are made in australia in fact i think boeings second-biggest offshore workforce is in australia, helping to make component parts on some of the passenger jets. and, of course, part of the flipside is come for example, where the second-biggest purchaser of the joint strike fighter. spirit apparently it is very expensive. >> yeah. and we are chewing on the pressure reducing the cost of the joint strike fighter. but we are there, you know? we are massive buyer caterpillar equipment. our industry is been using caterpillar trucks, and so on.

so yeah, it cuts always. i don't think you can out scramble the egg here but i think it's possible to do that. but certainly you can poison it. >> following the united states withdrawal from tpp, what's the future in your view for that agreement? >> well, we are certainly proceeding after discussions with other countries to have 12 -- tpp, go ahead without the united states, and we still certainly encourage others to join, and there are a number of countries that could join that haven't, obviously china hasn't joined that might choose to join. china has obviously put more effort into the relationship, and particularly has looked at promoting original comprehensive economic partnership which is

essentially an asian free-trade agreement for asian countries, just asian countries. we want the tpp to continue to proceed, and other countries that haven't joined that are strategically very important for all of us like south korea and indonesia who were thinking about joining the tpp may still join the tpp. we will wait and see. >> in a letter last year you wrote to the obama administration when the topic of potential renegotiation of the tpp was coming up how to use it in the letter, and i'm quoting from an excerpt, renegotiation of the agreement in any form or in some other form of an additional commitment is not an option and would jeopardize approval of the tpp countries. given the presidents withdrawal or you feel it is basically precludes youth participation during this administration? and potentially all future administrations given that mrs. clinton in her campaign

decided she was against the tpp and needed for the renegotiation? >> there's two ways you can go. you can either try to negotiate or you can have a domestic compensation practice, package or adjustment that helps is what you might of somebody pressure points. i understand this, if renegotiate the tpp, th a clear message to every other country is you've got to give us more. that's pretty hard to sell in australia or japan or malaysia, that i kill you giving the united states more at your expense. all of a sudden your people will say no, we are not going to do that. we actually have, it's a hard time selling free-trade agreements in australia believe it or not every other country has these challenges. it's not unique to the united states. our people who are anti-free-trade or opposed to

the tpp and all the tpp nations. and we have to address those domestic politics just as you do. but when you sit down and negotiate a deal, i think you're all people would assume you've got the best deal. and if you don't think you got the best deal, in your country they've taken the view it's not the best deal, renegotiating with one or two countries is sometimes possible. renegotiating with 11 other countries when there's someone else that might want to play in this ballpark, it's just unlikely. highly unlikely. >> how have you given the fact that there's domestic opposition potential in australia for free-trade, but seemingly the government and governments of both parties have overcome that, how did those people in the united states who believe in free-trade define the merits to the populace who may not be seeing it? >> at the end of the day it

means cheaper imports, cheaper components, but most significantly united states exports go into the fastest growing region in the world without a ball and chain around the lake. the ball and chain is unfair taxes on those exports. it means you have better protection for your intellectual property. currently, for example, vietnam has no restrictions on the intellectual property of pharmaceuticals. america dominates the world pharmaceutical market. it is the innovator, the promoter, and, frankly, when you have a fast-growing economy like vietnam, you want to have protections. and that was what the tpp was delivering for american pharmaceutical companies, for example. there are many other, dispute resolutions. there was an international, some countries you would want to try

to defend your intellectual property or defend the contract in their local courts. so this set up a mechanism for all of the disputes could be resolved in a free and fair court. that's a good thing, particularly for the united states, which is a big innovator and certainly has a number of companies that are the cutting edge of manufacturing and development. >> so there were many protections there. australia, australia has free-trade agreements with korea, japan, and china. and, frankly, united states, for example, in beef would go into china and can be directly with us. and we would have lost out of that. and now that you're not back the tpp, our beef farmers are cheering, right? except they know that at the end of the day, the fewer trade

barriers, the less tax on beef or agriculture, the better it is for everyone. then you compete on quality. and that's what we want to do. australia hasn't had a recession for 26 years. longest continuous period of growth in modern history. it's not an accident. we had to fight for survival. we were totally tied to an old regime we had a fixed currency, where we had tariffs come out right across the board in taxes, tax system and centralized wage fixing, and governments on both sides of politics recognized that was unsustainable for australia. and over the years, 26 years have removed those barriers. it has made australians more prosperous. the highest minimum wage in the world. one of the highest household incomes in the world. one of the highest net wealth of families in the world. it's not an accident. complacency and australia is our

enemy. that is our big enemy. and there are few people that are arguing against that complacency. there are some people that think this is the norm. it isn't. the fact is if you don't benchmark yourself against the best in the world, then you are going to fall behind. and the united states has always seen itself as having the capacity to be the best, to be the benchmark. it still can be but it's got to be prepared to lead if that's the case. >> we are going to open it up to audience questions so prepare yourself, but let me ask one more to the cycle is getting the questions in mind. in your view given that we are, we, united states and australia, have shared defenders of the values you articulated freedom,, enterprise, democracy, family, what do you see is the biggest threat that are shared asia-pacific region? >> well, i see a thread around the world.

being out of politics have given me a moment of clarity, so think about these things. look, you are seeing antiestablishment move right around the world. it's not unique to the united states. you see it in some forms in horrendous terrorist rebellious movements. usually in countries where there is no free and fair vote. in other places you see it as a rebellion lived by a totalitarian autocrat. in other countries say there is a vote anything the government proposes from brexit to colombia peace plan to the reelection of their own party. and in part it's because people feel incredibly disenfranchised as individuals. governments and businesses are centralized power, centralized decision-making where it be

washington headquarters in chicago or los angeles or london, whatever it is. companies have taken decision-making out other businesses and individual countries, individual states and have centralized it. and what happened to social media comes along and it becomes a loudspeaker for individuals? all of a sudden they say hey, i deserve essay and the sick. sometimes it really on edifying ways. it's become a megaphone for individuals to be able to say hang on, how about me? what happened with consumer goods is consumer goods now have empowered individuals. so consumers have empowered individuals. media, social media has empowered individuals, but still government and big business centralized power and disenfranchise those individuals. so that's why you are seeing people kick back and say hang on, i want to have more power.

i think we've all got to look at how we can localize more decision-making, more power in the hands of communities and individuals, which is a big, big step in politics to give up power, to hand it to individuals in communities. usually only happens every two or four years. but to do on a daily basis is a big step. i don't think anyone has worked that out spirit thank you very much. now we would like to go to the audience. wait for the mic because we're on live stream. start right over here at table two. >> thanthank you very much, mr. ambassador for your comments. can you hear me? given your background and world finance, which is exceptional, imf, asia banking, et cetera, given the disruption worldwide that you talked about, brexit, future of the eu being endowed, the greek debt crisis, the trend

towards conservatism and the insane standard to live think we have going on in washington 24 hours a day, -- saturday night live thing -- what you see as the future of global finance? you been in the world bank, many people say that sent out mode institution to the asia bank was reputed to be a big. what is happening in the asia bank and what is the world finance going, given all these upheavals that you mentioned? >> the asia infrastructure bank which is what, investment bank, as established by china and rejoined the number of others. u.s. has enjoyed. japan hasn't joined, but probably 30 or 40 other countries. australia has because we live in the asian region and there's a $7 trillion shortfall in infrastructure funding in asia over the next 10 years.

so we want to be part of a creek with the biggest export oracle, biggest export of iron ore, massive exporter of energy or if we can build a railway line and indonesia gets our cattle from port to market, fantastic. if we can build a par pipeline across the middle of india and gives energy to the hundreds of millions of people that burn dirty brown coal or wood in order to get heat at night, we actually give them electricity, fantastic. i mean come in china we seen the greatest alleviation of poverty in the history of humanity over the last 30 years. more than 300 million people have come out to clearly define poverty, and we as humanitarians should be celebrating that. but in response to our pressure points. in china there are 40,000 new businesses set up every day in china, 40,000. and they are advanced businesses. they are not restaurants or coffee shops.

not that they are not -- don't get me wrong but, and they are now empowered with the world cup as is into which has skipped an entire generation on communications of landline telephones. they have now gone straight to mobile and now they're going to cashless societies in indonesia come in india. so this great movement. and that will continue, that will continue. the challenge in the world economy is this. you know, governments have only so many levers. you've got regulation, one lever. you have taxation, another lever. you've got government spending, which is a third lever, and then you've got monetary policy set by the central bank, which is a fourth lever. you can't keep regulating.

sooner or later you got to run out of cash could you can't keep tax income you can't tax your way to prosperity. you can't do it. you take more money out of the market. so what happened was the central banks loosened policy, a flood of money without into the economies right around the world. it just built up and that's created asset inflation. if you want something you are doing well. it makes it harder and harder to buy things. take what if you don't own anything, right? even though interest rates are very low, they will have to go back up. the central banks aren't going to listen an everyone else. so as interest rates go up, as governments run out of money, too many governments of insane god, there's a popular movement here, we better regulate more. and then that becomes a constraint. the challenge now is that interest rates are going to have to go up around the world. it's just unsustainable debt so much free cash out there or effectively free cash provided

by banks. because then you get this ridiculous level of asset inflation and the rich get richer, the poor get poorer. so it's going to be managed really, really carefully. because governments run out of money. they have run out of monetary policy. they can't tax and the can't regulate. so what would i be doing? i'd be looking for how to improve productivity? how do you improve the speed and dynamics of an economy, investing in infrastructure is one of those things. better quality infrastructure helps you deliver cheaper, better outcomes in your daily life and daily business. and also government is going to get smaller, it's going to be less constraining on individuals. people click for bigger government, what are you thinking? it's actually smaller government that's going to empower individuals and help to lift the

tide. government doesn't create wealth. wealth. individuals create wealth. business creates wealth. and government doesn't create jobs. enterprise creates jobs. >> also will be hosting summit from the aei be in the next few weeks so we will keep an eye out for that in the program announcements. the lady at table three. >> will thank you, ambassador for your remarks. given the presidents current moves to relook at nafta, his withdraw from the tpp, do you think that the australian u.s. bilateral free-trade agreement would be -- approach the strong government to renegotiate that,

and what would be the australian governments view on that? >> no, i don't think he will. and look, everyone is entitled to look at an agreement and say can we make it better? the present that is going to do that. he's got a mandate to do that. i get that. we all get that. but it's not as simple as just ringing up your colleague and say look, can we sit down and have a look at things? because every business tha engages in commerce, anything between candid and the u.s., its $4 billion dollars a date crosses the border? that's a very complicated relationship. and what happens is businesses build into a risk return model. the rules of the game. so when you change from imagined the middle of the super bowl they change the rules.

i find it hard enough to find at any rate. especially when no one can properly define what -- imagine halfway through the super bowl or three quarters the way through super bowl they go up to tom brady and say listen, you don't have to throw the ball forward, you have to throw it backwards. can't do it. game over, right? so when you change the rules of trade, or taxation, once you are making it easier, changing the rules actually has a cost. in this town of all towns with two other great trading borders of the world focusing on hedging risk, you guys know that there certain risky -- the risky hedge is political and regulatory risk. and then you start just building it into the price of everything. you just build it in.

so good that might cost $10, if it's made in a country where there's a civil war brewing, it will cost you $12. if you have great innovators and they are working in their basement and they are costing $100,000 a year to employ in a country where there is suddenly a civil war or a coup, you start to think we've got to get them out of there. we don't want to be in that country. they are our prime asset. people react to fear. people react to adversity come and they do it dramatically. so you got to be very considerate in how you engage in the trade, the change attribute and look, i think the president is in that space. i really do that i think the president understands that. i mean, he's only been there three weeks. give him a go, you know? >> next question please.

>> thank you, ambassador. so the value of the mateship and global affairs is certainly based on as you talk about the sport of trade and defense. what else is connecting this mateship? a cultural interchange, educational exchange. there has to be other things that connect our two countries in addition to trade. what might -- >> it's every single area of engagement. so medical research. we have medical researchers working in boston, key institutions. we have the lead children's neurosurgeon in washington, came up to me the other day and said get up, mate. i said what are you from? he said children's hospital here in washington. i'm the head of neurosurgery. he operated on a friends of mine eight year old son.

the medical level, it's very deep. pharmaceutical companies and a range of different businesses. in education plenty of students here at the university of chicago, there's literally thousands of australian students studying here in the united states on campuses, but also studying in australia. a vast number. even on capitol hill there is a vast number of australian interns that role through all these congressional offices every year. and a number of the congressmen come up to me and congress wouldn't come up to me and say thank you. in the arts, we have producers -- congresswomen -- producers and directors, and we have business entrepreneurs from rupert murdoch to andrew, the head of dow chemicals, to chief executive of morgan stanley.

you know, every area there is a cross engagement. one of the things that quite struck me is there was a million american soldiers that were based in brisbane and australia during world war ii. and what was not reported at the time because now they are managing the media little more importantly than come there were brawls between the australian and anti-american men. the american men had better uniforms, were better paid and were chasing australian women. and the net result was 40,000 australian women moved to the united states with the americans. so i get a little chivalric people come up through the essay my mom was australian, right? because they came with american soldiers. so it really is a very deep tie, and i suspect, and it is still happening today. it's still happening today, which is fantastic spirit we do

our part with mateship if we work with two different think tanks and australia and with the consulate here, i think that's all we have time for ambassador hockey, thank you. david, thanks a million. please join me in thanking our speakers today. [applause] [inaudible conversations] coming up this afternoon, new america host a conversation on african-americans and the truck administration to we will be live at 12:15 p.m. eastern right here on c-span2. over on c-span a look at the future of trade between the

u.s.-canada and mexico. we will be live at atlantic council at 12:30 eastern. so which presidents were america's greatest leaders. c-span recently asked 91 presidential historians to rate our 43 presidents in 10 areas of leadership. top building this year went to the president to preserve the union, abraham lincoln. he is held at the top spot for all three c-span historian surveys. three other top vote getters continue to hold their positions, george washington, franklin and theodore roosevelt. dwight eisenhower to serve in the oval office from 1953-1961 makes his first appearance in the c-span top five this year. rounding out the historian top 10 choices, harry truman, thomas jefferson, john f. kennedy and ronald reagan. lyndon johnson jumps up one spot to return to the top 10. but pity pennsylvania's james

buchanan is ranked dead last in all three c-span surveys. there's bad news for andrew jackson as well. our seventh president found his overall rating dropping this year from number 13 to number 18. the survey had good news for outgoing president barack obama. on his first time on the list come historians placed him at number 12 overall. george w. bush moved three spots up on the scale to 33 overall with big gains in public persuasion and relations with congress. how did our historians rate your favorite president? who are the leaders and the losers in each of the 10 categories? you can find all this and more on our website at c-span.org. >> two former diplomats were a part of the discussion on the future of the iran nuclear agreement under the trump administration. we will hear from former white house senior middle east advisor