.... .... .... >> next, michael anthony chronicles his life of returning home from the war in "civilianized." this show contains language that some may find offensive. >> good evening, everyone. welcome and thank you for joining us. i want to let you know about a couple other author events we have. friday at 3:00 ann griffin is here with smashing miss carter and the missing goop and on tuesday we have eugene and this book about a widowed teacher and the sicilian-american experience. we have c-span tonight so if you

could make sure your cellphone ringers are turned off. after the discussion, when we do the q&a if you could come up and speak the question into the microphone so the camera could pick it up we would appreciate that. zee michael anthony, the author of "civilianized." after back from iraq, we did a bachelor at bridge water. and chris welsh is the author of courage. michael and chris, thank you so much. >> we are rolling? everybody can hear me okay? no. >> we can't hear you. >> you are breaking up. >> should i move the mic? maybe i am just talking quitely.

now can you hear me? michael will do the one-two. good evening, thank you, portage square books. it is an honor to be here to help michael launch this fantastic war memoir; "civilianized." i will say a few words to introduce him and the book, ask him a few questions and we will open it up for your own questions. looking at the book, i was reminded of the image that was going around the internet about 6-8 years ago of a snapshot of a whiteboard in some military base in, i think it was afghanistan that said america is not at war. the marine corp is at war. america is at the mall. the wasn't just the marines who were at war.

the army was too and with the army was michael anthony who was fresh out of bridge water high and joined at the age of 20, went to iraq, and helped build and then man combat support hospital where he assisted doctors cauterizing wounds, sutures and saving limbs of american and iraqi lives. this story, "civilianized," isn't so much about that experience although it is in the background but more about what he experienced when coming back to the states. he felt like a vet who no longer wanted to live in the world he pot with. the smell of baloney reminded

him of the smell of cauterized flesh. at war, we had to turn parts of ourselves off. we had to to survive. the only hard part was turning ourselves on. it was hard for a number of reasons. partly, his own self-awareness and vigilance about the project of re-entry, made it difficult. he was a troubled vet who was keenly aware of the cliche of the troubled vet. we wanted to remember and also to forget a complicated thing. the thing that made it difficult for him that interested me the most was dealing with civilians which i am one. and the book is really wise and insightful about that relationship or non-relationship

between soldiers and civilians, veterans and civilians. we are willing, civilians tolerate having other people and other people's children put sthevenlz in the harms way but we feel ignorrant and guilty about that experience. so we give to the members of the all-voluntary military an indiscriminate gratitude and thank you for your service. or to cover for our own unwillingness to sacrifice ourselves we call the heroes soldiers and leave it at that. pondering the experience of soldiers and veterans more carefully might be all too readily to the question of why we ourselves have not answered or heard the call to duty and

joined the fight or more actively supported those who do or joined in the debate about whether fighting is the right thing to do and becoming active in anti-war movements. there is a conversation in the book between a vietnam vet who michael befriends outside a liquor store and the vietnam vet is telling michael things are worse for him than the vitamin yet. shaking hands is so, so, this is

the gap i found this book so effectively bridged a way to help civilians better appreciate soldiers. we want to sort of fawn over them. we want to civilianize soldiers and i don't know that is necessarily the right thing to do. the book made me think about that. i always realized something as i was coming over here and i don't feel like i want to know more

about veterans because i want them to make them feel better. i want to know more about veterans and everybody to know more about veterans because i think they have a great deal to teach us about the sense of purpose, about the possibility of living a significant life by dedicating one's severlf to a ce larger than yourself, about duty and a lot of things michael talks about in the book. he makes this bridge by in a way that is unusual and maybe unique in a variety of ways. just great writing. wonderful observations and foremost through the humor in the book. i want to touch on a couple passages of just fine writing.

he writes about feeling jobless, hopeless, and just less all-around. the confusion of being a vet. i didn't know what fucked me up and i think that is what fucked me up the most. the book is, as i said, self-critical. he finds he doesn't want to talk about the war and gets tired of people bringing it up. but he realizes he imself is bringing it up and partly it is the peace he is grappling with. and it is a problem he is well aware and the book refers to the predicaments of many other vets that lots of vets are dealing with the fact that soldiers are 50 times more likely to commit suicide at home, at peace than they are in the field makes you

realize what a challenge it is to get civilianized. and there is a feeling of trying to be his authentic self, of turning that whole being back on, part of it had to shutdown and it never quite feels real. he writes real smiles come with squinting eyes. now when i smile, i make sure to squint too. he is looking in the mirror, the reflection looking back was sad and a bit off centered. sounds like a bleak moment but he is saved, in a way, by his sense of humor and more particularly by joining a pick-up community.

>> they are called pickup artists. i don't know if you have heard of the community. but these guys pay tens of thousands to learn how to talk to girls and pick up girls. i came back from the war a young 21 year old and thought what every 21 year old is going to save him; learn how to pick up girls. i go out and get involved in the pick up artists classes thinking that would save me. that was the crush that would bring me out of the hole of this depre depression. >> moderator: there are a couple great passages i wanted to ask you to read. what page are you on? go ahead there. >> guest: this is a scene chris picked up. it is me out on one of these dating courses. these guys are throwing motley crew. i am trying to save myself and

this is their own crew of depressed guys doing their own thing. i am just a suicidal vet and these guys are just, i don't know, in their own world and i am trying to make sense of things. this is just us out in the town getting ready to pick up girls. on a sidenote, i was telling chris, one of the places these guys love to go pick up girls is bookstores. this is a nightclub. i almost skipped the nighttime program but there was no refund. there was another reason i showed up. i was curious to see if david's technique worked but i started feeling for the guys. soldiers don't chose who they share a fox hole with. it is a shared experience that brings you together. not whether you like video games or basketball. even though my classmates were not combat vets we were fighting

our own wars of loneliness and paid thousands not because we wanted to just get laid but because we didn't want to be alone. we were hopeless and helpless and i nominated myself as the protector. a guy is hitting on a girl and almost gets in a fight with a boyfriend and the night is downhill from there. lots of drugs and drinking. there are some triumphant stories from the pickup artist community as well. >> moderator: there is another passage on 34 i wanted you to read. you would think that a young man, a veteran soldier, would, you know, talk to a girl. >> guest: i spent 12 months in a war zone, 13 mass casualties and

delivered three babies. i received a combat action badge, unit medal, iraq campaign ribbon and global war on terror medal. i could do this. but the thought of talking to a woman made me so fucking nervous. i was a really big nerd in high school. i had a friend in my school who would tell girls to talk about bras in front of me because i would get awkward and weird. i remember when i heard the story later on, i remembered the girls talking about bras because the first time it happened i froze up. so then next day i went online and researched bras. so a week goes guy -- by -- and

i am like did you know bras were invented in the 19th century? learning about bras didn't help so i thought maybe learning talking techniques that would save me. that is the guy that came back from iraq, take these courses trying to dig himself out of the hole. >> moderator: can you give a quick, short course for interested parties on either side? >> guest: there is something called the ioi. these dating courses are very methodical. they are computer guys, science guys and break down every type of pseudo scientific study so when you approach a girl you have to approach in a certain way, talk into certain way, say certain things. as long as you go through step a-d you will take this girl home with you. they have indicators of

interest -- flipping the hair or touching on the arm means they are interested and you can enact phase two of the plan. they would go through drills just like basic training. you learn how to kill and stabenow people these guys learn how to approach girls and make jokes or something like that. very methodical -- stab. >> moderator: there is gripping would be pickup scenes. tell us about the title. how it came to you. >> guest: really it is just the aspect of coming home. like chris said, veterans, we hear the stats of 22 veterans killing themselves every day and coming home with ptsd. we talk about the aspects of war that lead to. but they are more likely to kill

themselves at home than war. if everything that happens in war is what makes them kill themselves, the coming home aspect makes them do it. that is why they don't kill themselves for a couple weeks or months later. it is not just the war. it is the war and coming home from the war and during that transition where something is coming where we are getting high suicide rates, depression, alcohol and drug abuse. >> moderator: the book has what you call a deadline and that was a promise you made to yourself to end it all. even as you are having suicidal thoughts, he is going to his pickup classes and putting together a dating profile. it was hard writing a dating profile me writes. nothing seemed right but it eemd easier to figure out what was wrong.

i decided to leave out the suicidal stuff. probably a good move. this might be sort of a personal question but you did write a memoir. where are you at now in the pickup game? >> guest: well, married. i think the pickup classes helped. i never told my wife i went to all those classes. >> moderator: she knows now? when did you break it to her? >> guest: when i got the book deal. >> moderator: and you still, i saw on your website you, i don't know, tout is too strong a word, but you recommend it as a re-entry strategy. why is that? >> guest: there is multiple factions of pickup groups. there is teachers that teach one aspect, another aspect. in the book i only focus on

three or four months being home. but after a year, i spent about $10-$15,000 take thing courses some were good, some had weirdoes in there. the ones that were the best are the cons called inner games and they focused on the inner game. you are our outer game when you are gaming a girl and you work on your inner game and you naturally attract it. >> moderator: what are you working right now? >> guest: my last one was inner game and i spent $2,000 on this. the guy is like mike, you focus on getting laid too much. he said you have to go on a no-woman diet and give up women for six months. he is saying you have to give girls up and focus on yourself. i said i am going six months go

girls and two weeks later i met my wife and gave up on this diet. >> moderator: and then as you say on your website there are some creepy -- i don't know if there are any tips about if you know you are being gamed how can you tell? >> guest: how can you tell? if it is really good you can't really tell. here is the line that everybody uses. if somebody walks up to you and asks if you floss before or after you brush that is a line everyone uses there. the gateway line into a conversation. >> moderator: all right. all right. >> guest: it is weird. it will make sense when somebody comes up to you and says it. >> moderator: how about the cover? i have the color version. >> guest: this is just without the jacket.

this is redacted information. everyone knows the military documents are redacted. it was representing the redacted stories i like to tell. i like to tell the full picture military stories. so many times we get this romanticized stories. but to help the veterans, we have to tell the full version of the stories that paint people as real soldiers. not just these 180 pound, 6-1 southern boy. it is like you have to tell real people. it is real people fighting these wars and coming home from these wars. if we want to help people we will see them as the real people they are. >> guest: one of things to talk about is residual anger you

experienced. these are great names and i don't think their real names. you say the wrong people being called heroes. i think in some cases, they were fictionalized reports and make soldiers like you were forced to pick a medal that maybe you didn't want because accepting the medal made a superior officer look good. it tears at you more than you would imagine. does it still bother you and why? >> guest: i had a lot of people die in my hands and i almost died a lot of times. what messed me up the most was seeing people allowed to go to war. i could fight wars and almost die and have people die in my hands it is fine. but seeing like, i don't know, like a soul fall apart. people trying to lie and do anything for the war. napoleon said a man will fight long and hard for a bit of

colored ribbon. seeing that in action where people arei fighting in line fo a bit of colored ribbon it breaks you inside to see that time and time again. yeah, just coming home, one of the reasons i wrote this book was i talk about it in here and i was on a date with this girl. she starts talking about this newspaper article she read in one of those local newspapers. a hometown hero. a guy who came back from iraq and he is the epitome of the american soldier. i am like what is the guys name and she said it is lolly gash. he is not only a hero but one of the biggest dirt bags in the unit. i called my buddy and the first thing he said is let's go burn this guy's house down.

there is a lot of great heroes and a lot of guys that chase ribbons and fight for a bit of colored ribbons. it happens. in iraq, the instance was me and a few buddies were nominated for these awards and we are like we don't want these awards and don't want to stand up there and look like idiots. it is like in high school when you stand up there for your participation trophy. on the other side, people were arguing and petition to change the rules so they could get a combat action badge. an ordinance exploded far away from these people but it was unexploded ordinance because the terrorist took out all the gun powder. so it didn't explode. they just shoot a rock at us. these guys thought they would

have qualified in a war but not really so they are trying to change army regulations just so they can get this award. at the end, this guy wanted me to lie so he could get an award. i am like i don't even like you and i would think about it maybe if i liked you. but it is this bad aspect. when you are fighting 42 thes things and you think you are fighting for something you have these guys fighting for that ribbon. i mention that passage where you are talking to the vietnam vet and he is saying i would rather have somebody spit on me than shake my hand. you talk and say there is a book called thank you were your service andyou talk about the resentime resentment of ret veterans and the curiosity of not hearing about the non-heroes.

i wonder how should we -- let's say you see a soldier in uniform. do you say thank you or let them stay at the bar with a friend who served. how do you recommend for those of us who are civilians for life to talk to you, approach you, attitude that has been -- >> guest: two quick stories. one is with thousands of vets having thoughts like this. i remember talking to a lot of vietnam vets and they would say thank you for your service and i would say thank you to yours and a vietnam vet would say no one has ever said that to me before. i can understand not supporting the war.

the vietnam war was what it is. the iraq war is what it is. i can understand people had that sensation but to go 50 years and people not recognize you are willing to give up your life and you went over and did this and i am the first person to say this? i think the other end of this to go back to one of those dating classes, i went back to one of them and this was an inner game one. a really good one. i remember this one scene one time during one of these exercises there was this big, masculine guy who had a breakthrough. he just realized something about himself, something about life and he is having a big breakthrough. he is crying. having a cathartic cry. he realized something about his life and is having a perfect breakthrough. right in the middle of the

crying, cathartic moment, one of the other guys walks up to him and is like awesome breakthrough, high five. he is right in the middle of this cathartic full buddy cry and the guy is like high five, dude. i feel like vets coming back from war are in that zone and someone coming up to you feels like high five where you don't know what is going on inside me and you don't realize what maybe you are thanking me for especially when you first come back. you are in the zone and feel like high five, dude. >> moderator: open it up for questions now. we are told that you should use that micrmicrophone there. so, while folks are -- i was going to ask you while folks are pondering that i wanted to ask you also about a couple things

you talk about that helped you through life. i mean, not just re-entry but reading and writing being one of those things or two of tose those things. can you talk about that? as the deadline approaching, it felt like it was -- >> guest: one of the biggest things that helped me. i was telling you a story about the guy who was called a hero skwa and wasn't a hero and my friend wanted it burn his house down. i thought about writing a real story. hemingway said if a man can write one true sentence that is all me needs to do. i just started telling a true war story. not for good or bad but for the sake of telling something true. once i had something to focus on

besides focusing on girls or my misery i think that helped me. once you oversee the war you have to realize you are in the zone where you are to be hundred percent on your game, all the time. you have to be a hundred percent focused and on your game and doing something purposeful. then you come home, and it is what am i going to do now? nothing has the same passion and causes you to be on your toes like that. once you had something to chase after and put my full force toward that helped me out a lot. there is a book called "flow" by someone with a weird name and he said that we are not really our happiest when relaxed but really the happiest when focused and doing something. in iraq, i was in that zone 24/7 and coming back and i am out of t. but writing, chasing and going after something greater than myself to help veterans

brought me back to the zone and give me something to focus and work towards. >> and then you also talk about neuro feedback which is something i wasn't familiar with. >> guest: neuro feedback is this thing -- i experiment with all kinds of things that like veterans. there is a lot of things out there from yoga, medication, drugs and therapy and there is a new study on ecstasy helping vets. i tried neuro feedback where they hook things up to your brain and you play video games with your brain. it is supposed to help you rewire the brains and neurons or something like that. so i am thinking about this and thinking about that. i talked about experimentation in a few ways. in the book, i talk about the story and i went to do this neuro feedback thing and it is supposed to rewire your brain so

instead of thinking of something negative you would think of something positive. i had been having bad thoughts and nightmares. after doing neuro feedback, i had a wet stream dream. my first one since high school. the writers of the community write about the war time experiences. less talking and sharing the stories helps make sense of things. just knowing they are not alone in what they are experiencing. the shared experience can help other veterans as well.

the va has done a study and the number one thing helps veterans with ptsd is exposure therapy and that is vets getting together and talking about their experience. i think war writers is similar where they get together and share stories. >> moderator: and i want to go back to that question about what those of us who are not struggling vets partly how can we help but going back to what i said at the beginning the was for selfish reasons how can we get out of that trend? our nelly -- fellow citizens, how can we better interact? buying the books and reading as much as possible is good. how about reading things like warriors have events where they

potentially have veterans and civilians? veterans are civilians, of course, too. but are there other things? what would you recommend to say to that man in the airport? or woman in the airport? >> guest: it is a tough call. you don't want a vet going 50 years without anyone acknowledging their service. the hardest point is getting out there and having the conversations and keeping the conversations. i tried to tell the stories so it makes it easier to talk about it. focusing on certain things, it is going to be a hard conversation but if we can make it funny and talk as people instead of civilian soldiers. we are just people and we can have these conversations. i went through this crap and you went through this crap. it is just having conversations with the people.

>> moderator: there is the question were you on the ship? did you kill people? there is a moment in the book where you are talking to a fellow who is getting competitive about that and that was interesting to see. i forget you how say it but screw his scorekeeping. you didn't want to play one up. >> guest: it is like dick measuring but with combat. who has the biggest dick? whose had the most people die in their hands? people feel like they have an embargo on emotions. you only saw eight people die? i saw nine. i have a right to feel this way

but you don't. you also are -- >> guest: this gets at the sort of civilian question more. more specifically the civilian veterans -- is a light bulb joke? >> guest: i did standup comedy and did videos and it isn't about military. it was a joke about veaganism. it is a story about my wife. she is a vegan and i tried it turn her into a meat eater and there is a book called it is not

you, it is meat. i made jokes about that and they went viral. >> moderator: is it a light bulb joke? >> guest: there is an old joke how many vets does it take to change a light bulb and it like you couldn't fucking no, you rnt there. >> moderator: who wants to ask him a question? >> thank you so much. the book sounds great and takes a lot of courage to put yourself on the line especially for your wife. i have a question about one of the things that made your re-entry difficult. the concept of moral injury. have you heard about this before? >> guest: yeah, i definitely mention it in the book. >> i gather there are different definitions floating around. there is the idea there is ptsd

which is a scientific psychopathology and moral injury is more of a soul injury which you referred to when you talked about people seeking medals for the sake of it. but other people define it as any time you go into the combat there is a violation of your moral core. what was your experience with that? >> guest: i think i probably myself felt more toward the moral injury side of things when i came back. part of it is you come home and had to do things because it is war. and you come back like was the iraq war supposed to happen or not? weapons of mass destructions yes or no? you come home and people are more concerned about kardashian's than the kuwait people.

so it is the whole aspect of what is the point? my first part of my deployment i was in mosul and mosul is in the news because isis took it over. when he left mosul a year later, the world health organization tried to come over and take over our hospital. it is too much and we cannot go in this. you save all these lives and put your life on the line and two years later, back to a war zone. you come back home, people died, what is it for? you have people chasing ribbons. well, like i said, there a lot of heroes in the military. when you see that 2% it is like that 2% can mess you up and seeing 98% hero. that evil in the world is there. >> moderator: and thinking about it in terms of a moral injury is more helpful in some cases as opposed to ptsd? >> guest: yeah, i think moral

injury is a harder conversation to have. people get ptsd. it is almost war, they saw dead bodies and can understand why somebody could have ptsd. but moral injury you have to talk about the war and the politics involved and that is a harder conversation to have. >> moderator: does moral injury have official standing in the military? >> guest: i don't think it is talked about as much. i only heard it within the last two years. other questions? >> hi, my question is about the writing process and editing process of this book. chris had mentioned this cookie cutter narrative of heroism. you talked about wanting to write a true war story for your first memoir.

i think some of the other prevailing narratives that hollywood lately seems to enjoy selling have to do with broken veterans coming home broken. i am wondering during the writing, or the editing or publishing of this memoir, were there moments for you where telling something true, that is not cookie cutter and doesn't fit into narratives was challenging or particularly important or exciting like you achieved it? >> guest: there is one story i wrote about and thought about taking out because it is a crazy story. even though it is true, it is one of those crazy stories where it is like this is too crazy. they will think about making it up and putting this one crazy story even though it is true. the story was back in iraq, we

were working in a hospital doing surgery and you ever watch a movie or a tv show and someone yells scapal and the hand reaches over? i was the mysterious hand. one day the doctor is working and says let's try to hypnotize this combatant. he started trying to hypnotize this patient. we have this enemy combatant on the table. he is under anesthesia and we are just trying to hypnotize him. more patients come in and as long as they are iraqis and not american soldiers we try

hypnotize and do our own thing. the only reason we stopped doing the hypnosis plan is because at the time in my unit it was about halloween in iraq. my unit had a halloween party. people dressed aaup in whatever costumes they had. took war paint and did cat wh whiskers. a buddy of mine dressed up as a gangster. he is a big nerd and not a gangster. he is out there on this dance floor, dancing, doing his thing, and whatever. party goes on. next day comes. somebody went to the party in the criminal investigation division of the army and at this point in time in the army there was investigations going on because they found there was a lot of gangs in the military. so he is to the party, sees the

guy dressed up as a gangster and the cid starts investigating our community for gang activity. they are investigating our community for gang activity because of the halloween party and the doctors hear about this and they think they are going to stumble on to our hypnosis plan. paranoia runs high when you are hypnotizing a double agent. we had to stop that plan. but it is more of a weird war story like i can't tell this. it is too crazy. nobody is going to believe it. it happens. that was one of the stories i thought not telling because it is too crazy. but if is war and crazy things happen all time. >> moderator: in the writing process itself were there stages in which it was easier or harder?

you are talking about difficult subjects and candidly about personal matters? there were there strategies you used? maybe it flowed beautifully? >> guest: it is a short book and quick read. i tried to get rid of any type of fluff or anything that wasn't part of that raw feeling i was looking for. i wanted a quick book that is a punch in the cut that you can read in one weekend and feel something, understand something, about the coming home process. i didn't want this literary or academic work. just something about the coming home process. >> you pulled it off. yeah? >> hi, i do a little work with the homeless. i was homeless a little bit. i know people with ptsd and with the moral injury and all that kind of stuff. when you started talking about the suicides you sound like you are funny and have stories that

are charming. but i think you have been skipping the fact you were very young when you can came back. i was a little suicidal in my 20s and i cannot hold on to why. can you separate from the statistics and you are well-versed on talking about the things going on. we talk about how many a day and this and that. your own story, you come back and why are you? you were young and doesn't sound like you were out there shooting a gun or maybe you did see a lot of people die and that got you. anyone working in the emergency room might have the same experiences you had. why were you a 20-whatever and suicidal? can you speak to it? >> moderator: good question. >> guest: absolutely. a lot of hospital people face compassion fatigue where you go

through that experience all the time. it is similar to working in an er. but it is a war zone. imagine what the hospitals spee experienced after the boston marathon bombing and imagine that every day? it wears on you and you get compassion fatigue. you go through these things where you have all these people die and you have to turn yourself on. when you are in surgery you can't feel for these people. somebody dies on the table and you have to turn it off and be a robot. you come home and you struggle to turn that part back on. you are seeing the worl around you. people don't care about the war. people are being called heroes

that should not have been called heroes in the first place. you are trying to make sense of these things and find your place in the world. it just hits you where it is what is the point anymore? you face this type of apathy. it hits you. it creeps up on you. the moral injury creeps up on you. it is not necessarily a big thing. it creeps on you where you give up. we talked about people chasing awards. at one point in my hospital, the commanders who are having an award ceremony. they shutdown the whole hospital. this one injured soldier goes to the er looking for help but we closed the doors because we had an award ceremony. this guy is sitting there in this chair for 45 minutes. we do a five-hour surgery on him the next day. he sat there for 45 minutes

because we were too busy having an award ceremony about the great care we were giving and the awards were given to the commanders and not anybody in the working in the hospital. stuff like that makes you want to give up. you give up and it hits you in the throat like what is the point? people stink, you know? >> how has it been returning to your hometown? are you comfortable where you left off? or same thing? some type of like -- like when you come back stateside, you know?

you were back in south shore. does it make you want to go out into like a bigger. what are you thinking about? i was a medic and i was thinking of all the people while i was being a medic and anyway so, like, it is great. sometimes i am like i should wear a fucking shirt like you.

>> moderator: you talk about smoking and leaving high school and when you come back your brother comes upstairs and he is smoki smoking. is there -- i was going to ask if you wait until the end of that. he is on you. >> your writing has a lot of humor in it and dark humor. how did humor help in your writing process or just in

general helping you get back through everything and the re-entry process? and yeah. that is my question. >> guest: i think how you look at the world and i guess for me i have always used humor to deflect. it makes it easier to talk about things. you can deflect on certain aspects of it and throw a joke in there and makes it easier to diffuse it. >> moderator: a lot of the humor in the book is situational and situations you wind up in. drinking with hold pals on the pick up scene and i think that is part of what makes this book

actual actually. it wrereckons good questions ab moral injury and suicidal impulses it is really funny throughout. sir? >> yeah, just one thing i found disturbing about the conversation on foreign veterans. people trying to blur the distinction of opposing a particular method of war and the act of not supporting veterans. is there a particular way think of not discussing that. how do you see that taking place? you support the soldier not the

war thing. >> guest: it is tough. i was just reading about how donald trump got elected and he is like we should not have gone to iraq in the first place. he attacked hillary for voting on the iraq war and attack republicans for voting for the iraq war and how that helped him get elected. i read a story about a vet who said i was doing this ten years ago and people were calling me a trader. i think the conversation is changing. a lot of people supported the iraq war and now it is changing to we should not have gone there in the first place. the conversation is changing between supporting the soldiers and the war and now it is more let's support the soldiers and we can agree there was no weapons of mass destructions. probably shouldn't have gone in there. it has been changing toward we can support the soldiers but we

can admit what is going on with the war. i think we are heading that way in the right direction. but it is an important thing to keep in mind. you know, there can be a distinction between supporting the war and supporting the veterans. you can thank them were showing bravely in the battlefield. >> so, um, this bit of the conversation turns my mind toward a real empathy towards young men who are by the standards of our culture and so many things in entire human history to be drawn into this all-volunteer army or forced into, say the vietnam era, which is more my era. a friend of mine from high

school and i are back in touch. he is a hundred percent disabled vietnam vet. he was just a dumb 17 year old drawn to the war. i am not saying you were a dumb 17 year old but i keep feeling like there is a bigger piece here which is what we do to our men in this world. that is all i have to say. any other questions? >> he is going to read the epilogue now for the final word. >> okay. i will listen to it. >> this is the end from the epilogue here. it is after all these stories >> moderator: before you start i will say you will be glad to

sign books afterwards. >> guest: yeah, i think we will be signing books back there. why these stories instead of the thousands of others that happened during the same time period? these are the stories that stick out. all that happened was i got drunk, got laid and a little depressed. you never know what you are going to remember and what will have the impact. i have only been to iraq once but stepped off the plane a thousands times. i remember sitting on the roof of the hospital chain smoking and playing guitar and playing baseball inside the hospital and feeling the broom handle as a bat. i remember the feeling of watching a unit of misfits from 37 states come together to run a hospital that would save thousands of lives. that is what memories are for. reliving and remembering again and again whether we like it or

not. sometimes a soldier returns home and all he can do is share a story and hope it somehow helps another soldier. although the stories may not be perfect, sometimes sharing is just enough to make a difference. or so we hope, right? >> thanks. >> thank you, guys. thanks for coming down. [applause] .... >>