next summer when we take an even more forward leaning perspective on where comparative effectiveness research needs to go and how we get there together. thanks everybody and i hope to see you soon. thank you. [applause] tonight on book tv a look at lights in the white house. next, an interview with adrian muller former assistant to president clinton about his book, the president kitchen cabinet. then richard carty not his book link and sense of. peggy grandy writes about her time working in the reagan white house in the book, the president will see you now. and former president judge w bush talks about his paintings of military veterans compiled in the book, portraits of courage.

>> author adrian muller's book the president kitchen cabinet tells the history of the african mystery kitchen staff who served in the us president. he sat down for an interview at the schomburg center in new york city. this is just over an hour. >> hello there schomburg family. how are you doing this evening? [applause] thank you. good evening and welcome to the schomburg center my name is novella and i man did publications here. thank you for joining us in the lines featuring author adrian muller and his most recent, the president kitchen cabinet: the story of the african-americans who have fed our families from the washington the obama's. as as you saw in the video, it is a one-of-a-kind research institution dedicated to the collection, preservation and interpretation of the global

experience. also you may have heard in january the schomburg center was named the national historic lamech by the national park service so they know what you all know, the landmark status recognizes the vast collection of materials that represent the history and culture of the people of descent through the global transnational perspective. through public programs and exhibitions and film screenings performances and engaging conversations like the one were sure to have today we explore the historical and contemporary narrative that continue to shape our nation and our world. also, we hope the public programs that you are able to explore our archival collection which was over 10 million items. certainly, come here for our public programs and then go and visit one of our five divisions we can find rare books, photographs, other kinds of collections and other resources. i would tell you about the rest of the program for february but since it's black history month,

every month at the summit and schomburg center, next month we are featuring our women's jazz festival. this year we will feature an evening discussing the legacy of ella fitzgerald and three nights of ella fitzgerald inspired performances on some of her most emerging women in jazz today. this event and others can be found on the schomburg website, songbird .-middle-dot work as well as through event light by searching somber. you can find it in our winter program brochure which is also located in the lobby. i want to thank you to any schomburg society members that we have here. your support. [applause] yes, okay your support makes it possible for us to deliver consistent high-caliber programming for the low cost of free to the public all year round. for return to tonight's program i would ask anyone to silence your cell phones. also, no flash photography or video.

before we get started before i have a chance to introduce you to our panelists i will bring out kevin young, the director of the schomburg center. [applause] hello. hello. we are very excited to have adrian here and have you all here. it's a good-looking crowd out there. novella told you all of the good news that we have a national historic landmark status which we are delighted by. we had the black power show up right now and were almost done with our renovation which has been going on over a year and were really excited for the new spaces and we'd like you to come warm them up with us. there was a moment ago that i was going to maybe say i would say i was tonya hopkins and conduct some of the interview with adrian who i've known a while is a brilliant food writer, soul food scholar. but i'm going going to turn over the states to adrian and tonya and welcome again.

thank you. [applause] let me introduce you to our panelists. adrian muller is recovering lawyer who worked as a special assistant to president bill clinton. we all know who that is he's lectured around the country. adrian first book, soul food, was published in august 2013. soul food on food on the 2014 james beard foundation book award for reference of scholarship. the second book the one featured tonight, the president kitchen cabinet he's a certified kansas city barbecue society judge and a former southern food board alliance member.

leading us through the conversation and tonya hopkins whose career began in marketing is a qualitative researcher and brand strategists for various brands including food, wine, premium spirits brands. these experiences field experiences fueled for unique perspective on ethnic and mainstream food cultures and led her to found.co. commentary commentary on all things culinary and cultural. this is a multimedia platform which she provides historic and contemporary culinary consulting and content. narrated historic dinners, tastings and events. as cofounder of the nonprofit james having foundation, tonya is a food historian and a wine specialist for historically inspired dinners including the june 2016 james beard house event. it's it's based on the historically famous 1790 reconciliation that a lavish meal prepared by thomas jefferson enslaved french changed chef, james henning, set the table for america's future. please welcome them. [applause]

everybody knows me and my bags. there a security blanket. adrian. >> what's up. >> what's up. >> it's no long time no see. >> yeah. >> i don't remember and i don't recall back i don't remember when you tell he gets up and he tells the story that i'm all excited, it was teen years ago and i thought what his brother to talk about. he gets up and tells the story about the long-lost delicacy of possum [. >> that's right. >> i was like, what is he talking about but it turns out that that was great. i refer to that and i give you props. >> possum for taters. that was 100 years ago that was

the dish, believe it or not. people looking for long-lost soul food recipes don't overlook the possible. tonight we're looking at her latest book which i actually have in my security back here, the president kitchen cabinet. and untold stories of african-americans who have fed our families from the washington. i thought it was interesting that you worked in the white house. you said that you never went to the kitchen. >> well, no. if if i'm not to be someplace, i'm not going to go there. the white house does not a place you should wander around. if you don't need to be there but i worked in something called the president initiative are one america. you've never heard of it but it was an outgrowth of president clinton's initiative on race. he is the wild and crazy idea about the initiative race.

if we actually talk to one another, listen, we might we might find out that we have a lot more in common than what supposedly divides us. that went on for a year and a half and after that the board that iran that recommended that there be an ongoing office in the white house to deal with racial reconciliation and other racial issues. that was the initiative for one america. >> when you got the idea to to this book and you started the research ? how many years did you do the research to back eight years in the making. what really inspired me was unemployment. [laughter] that's always an inspiration. >> at the change of an administration what happens if you're a political appointee -- by the way i got the job by the old old-fashioned way. georgetown law school called me up all those practicing law in denver and this is not to disparage any attorneys in the audience but practicing law was on for me. got to the where i was singing spiritual is in my office and i figured i should do something else.

this punk while i was taking about opening a restaurant in denver and she describes the initiative for one america and i did the same thing that cheney did when george w. bush and i was the head of the search committee and cemented my name. that's how i got it. [laughter] we get to the end of the administration and as an appointee you write out your letter of resignation. shockingly george ws except in my resignation so i was unemployed, job market was soft i was watching a lot of daytime television. >> not good. >> not good. i thought to myself, i should recently. i went to the bookstore and got a book about the history of southern food in that book was southern food, at home and on the road in history. at that book contributed to an african-american achievement so i just emailed him to see if someone had written network.

about ten years old when i got it. he said no one had really taken on that project, so that led to my first book on the history of soul food and it was while i was reading that sources for that but i discovered these african-americans cooked for our presidents, including something written by schaumburg in the 20s. he was going to write a history of african american cooking and he talked about some of these. >> arthur schaumburg, who founded what were in right now? >> yes. i found a photocopy of what he had typed up to capacity. there's also if you dig into dubois, or into booker t. washington, they had a lot of work related to food. dubois had this whole extensive study on the black tater of the philadelphia and you touch on that too.

how that was a pathway of new money for black people and status and class that still trickles in two today. it's interesting that you said the one who had done the piece about the african american accomplishments, is it one piece? there so much connection to american food ways unlike any other. >> right. >> even this book, zero my god, it doesn't look that thick but it is packed with stories and people and dates. forty-four administrations, all have different people that are involved but there are so many -- you could do i don't know. 50x50 ? i don't know about that too in 1 million books written from the stories and hear. >> the things about african-american presidential history and the cooks is that it's fragments. in the 18th and 19th century

, even into the 20th century, the african-americans were looked down upon. server two positions were born to do. a lot of the historical sources a lot of their sources were you only get references to neagle krups or colored folks. they didn't even put out the person's full name. it is remarkable that we see a full name in some of the sources. in the 20th century, it's better. cooking was not the glamorous thing that is today. it was one of the few professions that african-americans could pursue and excel at without garnering a lot of backlash. we see that play out. what what's going on in the white house kitchen mears what's going on in broader society absolutely. not just about their place but you made it clear that they are feeling on food. you talk about times when white

cooks have been fired to rehire black cooks. their skill and talent element to this whole lure of the mythical, amazing black cooks. i love how you set it up in the beginning when you say there are cooks -- you call us dumb cooks, scratch cooks have more the improvisational approach and let's see what's in my fridge or what's in season and go with it. and then there are cooks that what's the french term note on the back that means putting everything in its place. if you're a scratch cook, someone in in your family is like that and when you try to get a recipe that has an attitude, i don't measure, you just have to watch something. i'm a cook that has to have everything set out so i know know that i have all my ingredients and properly measured and my approach back

that's how you approach this book and all the information? yeah, the study of the food culture and what deals with the president directly, what involved president and what is beyond the present control of congress, public perception of the president and show how they interact. >> the very methodical approach afforded a very fast-paced, story folded piece of blood. it's phenomenal. you don't have to read the whole book, just skim it and have a conversation. but no, i i want to read the whole book. any other scratch cooks, i want to get a feel for the scratch cooks. >> can i get some hands up or scratch? who. >> okay. my tribe is much smaller.

>> you have some slides, are they looping. >> yes, live besides your seen some snippets from the interesting personalities i've collected in this book. real quickly, the first person was samuel francis he was the steward for president washington. you saw that picture online and thought he was a white do. there was a lot of heated debate among scholars about his race but quite a few of his descendents believe he was biracial and that he had african heritage. i show hercules was the enslaved cook for george washington who also escaped successfully on george washington 65th birthday he is not the only famous essay be, you and i guess we know about only judge who escaped actually before him. >> i was wondering if one inspired the other. >> she escaped two years before hercules does. the portrait you see is that a portrait that's hanging in a museum in madrid spain. the title of the portrait is a

cook for george washington and the painter is gilbert stuart the same guy who did the iconic portrait of george washington. what's interesting about that portrait is the chef outfit that hercules has is one that would warrant by a european jeff not an american chef at that time. seen what happened with only judge and how vindictive george washington was? if you read the letters of washington's reactive and the extent to which he tries to get achilles after his cape, you think of that song of frozen you think of let it go. he could not let it go. it made sense that hercules goes overseas because that was the safest thing for him to do. >> he was able to do that as you documented. he made money selling scraps -- that was interesting because i've come across that story as you know in history there are stories and then there are backs in history and sometimes they are hard to discern.

i had learned that he was such a great cook that he was a demand and he was able to sell meals to people. this piece about the scraps, what was was that about that was part of the same thing. a lot of personal chef the employer would give them the liberty to sell the scraps and flops because people would use them to make candles they would repurpose those things. >> the tea leaves from teabags. >> right. hercules, this brother was making so good that he made $5000 in terms of what he was selling. he would buy fancy clothes, gold cane in washington gave him a lot of liberty. after he was done working he would put on that blue suit with the gold cane and walk around philadelphia, he was allowed to go to the opera. he had quite had a few liberties. >> that says a lot about, nonetheless, he wanted to be free. this whole mythology that you often touch on about the happy

slave in the propaganda around that in society to make people believe that slavery wasn't so bad. with all these liberties and perks and whatever he is still, like i'm out. we believe he does make his way to spain? >> that's one theory. they don't know exactly where he ends up but the clothing is a clue. no one knows for sure. the interesting thing is toward the end -- a couple things. first of all, when washington brings hercules to philadelphia to be has come, he does this for six months he had a white woman named mrs. reed but he wasn't feeling her cookie at all. he brings hercules from the mount vernon kitchen to come to philadelphia. the tricky thing was philadelphia had this gradual abolition act of 16801780. if you were there for six months in philadelphia you are automatically free.

washington would do to get around this was right about that time of six months, he would pack up all the enslaved people and send them back to mount vernon, keep them there for a few weeks and bring them back and start the clock over again. he did this throughout -- i know, crazy right? for the end of his second term he sends hercules back, not to the mount vernon kitchen but into the field to make bricks and do other hard labor. that is what really supposed hercules to make. for freedom. >> but after he escapes, washington is like oh my cook is gone, i need my québec, the house will fall apart. if you leave the letters in sequence he's going to the five stages of grief, i really believe that. [laughter] i told you all there was a lot in here. >> the leathers from martha washington read like something you'd see on the housewives of

old virginia. [laughter] thanks for laughing at the joke. i return on that one. [laughter] drama. he put them on the field, like a punishment. maybe that's what spurred him to be like, i am out of here. >> it seemed to be the precipitating event that washington suspected that hercules would escape with some of his family members. one of them was caught stealing money out of a backpack and it was believed that that was going to finance an escape attempt. i think that's what i dictated it. >> before on to the other very important person, i thought it interesting that was george washington step grandson, nephew, whatever, how he actually luckily for you and for us, for the sake of this research, documents in detail about hercules artistry and talent and all that.

what was that about ? it sounded like an early romance work is going on and on. >> washington george park custis admires washington and use the step grandson. we get a sense that of hercules personality and what he had going on in the two. one thing to know is that he had a biracial staff. he had enslaved african americans from mount vernon and they were indentured whites that worked in the kitchen and then his boss was a biracial man named samuel. evidently, hercules was quite temperamental as a chef. he would he would feel a kinship with gordon ramsay. >> yeah. [laughter] >> he talks about them flying at

his instructions and how he if they messed up, he got mad at them wait wait wait. >> we've got a talk about james before we talk about. [laughter] >> he's not really, james henning. >> he does cook for a president. he is thomas jefferson's chef before he becomes president. he cooks for jefferson for that 1801 in monticello. >> right. right. it was sally having his older brother and james was 19 and jefferson got appointed to become minister of france, he takes hemmings over to france with him and for three years has him trained as a classical french chef. spends a lot of money to do this. he installs hemmings as his. >> all the money he didn't pay him for being enslaved. >> but when he finishes his training he pays hemmings.

he brings him back and he's here in philadelphia. as you know, in the the mid- 1790s, having says i want to be free. jefferson agrees to do this on two conditions. one, you have to teach other enslaved people on monticello how to cook. i spent all this money training you, i want you to impart does not. two, you two, you have to leave behind your recipes. hemmings does this and then he's free on february 5, 179696. what you see rolling through here is a list of all the kitchen utensils that were at monticello and that is written in hemmings hand. that's at the library of congress if you ever want to see it he was literate in english and french. he studied it when he got there. as you mentioned earlier, one of the cofounders of the james having foundation which you can learn more about online, one of the other cofounders is here and i want to give her a shout out.

yes, i want to make sure we talk about james because you also talk about this interplay between french cooks and french culinary techniques and african-american cookery in the fusion of virginia and french and research shows that james was may be the only one over time trained in france for this chef de cuisine status. >> right. i included him in the book because of a reason, he is a fascinating story but also, he set the tone for presidential cooking at least through jefferson's presidency. what happens is that to enslaved women from monticello end up being assisted just in the kitchen to a french man and the reason why hemmings doesn't become chef is because he brings himself hangs himself to death

in 181. speemac. will will be on-site in fellowship next week in monticello. there's some new, you alluded to this but there's new information that we believe will provide more dimension to james story. >> okay. he dies. >> we had to enslaved women who are working in the white house kitchen and after jefferson's presidency, they are the main cuts at monticello essentially. >> trap. you talk about them trapped in the basement. >> right. typically, anyone who has been in washington dc in july and august will understand this but the white house in the summer had a skeleton crew. it's built any reclaimed swamp and people in the white house kitchen would get tropical

diseases. for whatever reason jefferson would not let those two women go back to their families when he would leave the white house during summer break. they actually had to stay there and we see examples of the husbands back at monticello escaping trying to reunite with their wives and jefferson catching them before they even get to the white house and returning them. their life was pretty much in the white house basement. there were slave quarters right off the main pigeon. >> right, they live there, slept there, for a flood when flood when it rained. it was hot. and we have to remember their cooking from hearth three, not modern ranges, ovens you can preheat. the fires would roar constantly. >> that hearth cooking, there was a fireplace with a range on top but there was another fireplace that was open, hearth cooking like that. according to some sources, injuries related to heart cookie were the second leading cause of energy to women in the 1800s and 1700 next to pregnancy. that shows you how dangerous

that word was. >> absolutely. you can only imagine those long hot, no potholders, no ice. [laughter] i love how you stories within stories. the stories about the husband were trying to see their wise and how you learn history along the way which is great for those of us who prefer to learn history through the lens of not just food but from a black perspective, i love how you have actual quotes from the people who have worked and cooked and served some of these presents. will you talk about some of the personalities, the dynamic between the president and some of the people who serve them? sure. there were three main themes to the book. one, to show how there were

culinary artists, the second was to show that they were family confidence in confidants of many situations in third is unwittingly or unconsciously they were civil right advocates. when african-american civil right advocates could not get access to the president, to lay out their agenda, they would go to the cook and asked the cook to whisper in his ear while they were serving him food. they were hoping that something would register and the president would move on it. one of the funniest stories involves, the private cook for lyndon johnson. her story is fascinating. of all of the cook i discussed in the book she's the 1i would've loved to sit down and have dinner with her and talk about her experience. she was key to the 1964 civil rights act. when johnson was lobbying that bill with members of congress he would use her jim crow experiences. back then, the family would drive from texas to washington dc and she would ride along with the family. in many instances she was not allowed to go to the bathroom or

eat with the family. she suffered so many indignities back because she could go in the restaurant that they were stopping at along the way, yeah. >> she suffered so many indignities that at some point she refused to go on the trips. she lived in washington year-round. the president would say it was a shame that my cook has to to go through this. after he signs a bill, sensor with a pen and says you deserve this as much as anyone. one of the things that we know about lbj's personality is that he would often show up late for dinner and demand to have food right away and she would say, ghost in the kitchen when something. and he would do it. [another thing is that he would often show up late with gas and want dinner may. he would show up at dinner with six guests at ten a clock in it. she would start making the food but just send out drinks and nobody ever complained. [laughter]

one thing, just to show, an interesting figure and plays a role of perception that the president has in terms of food is that there's something i call the great chili, controversy of 19 before. every once in a while the white house put out a recipe for food. there was a recipe for the press? yes, for the press. there was a recipe for chili, named after a river that runs along the lbj ranch in texas. does anyone know about texas chili? it has no beans. that's how it's distinctive. it's chili con carne not so with this recipe comes out, americans freak out and they want to be assured that their president love beans. >> beads were big once upon a time. >> in the johnson library, he is the recording system in the oval office. extensively and had conversations recorded but it starts out with kennedy and then johnson with according system

and that he recommends it to nixon and we know how that turned out. [laughter] >> nixon took it to another level. >> if you'll indulge me, i have a clip from the johnson library of her talking about the president being preferences. the first voice you'll hear is wanita roberts who was johnson's social secretary. she is the one getting all of the slack from the public and then you'll hear the a race. can you play that. it's not can i play? >> okay. so what i did is that i

transcribed it the recipe in the book, this conversation conversation in the book. i'll read it. the first voice is wanita roberts. >> want me to do wanita back i will drew a dramatic we have correspondence asking that the president and first family like beans. i know enough to say yes i wanted to check with you. what would you say if you are asked a question by a responsible person. the right answer is i would say yes. robert says and. i know he likes pork and beans. he likes pork and beans, pinto beans, lima beans, green beans and that's green lima is dry. the fresh green beans? he likes the blue lake canned green beans and used in a salad. he likes beans. the green limas, baby limas, how do you prepare those for him.

justin salty water, add a little margarine and pepper and cook them for a good long while until the jews in the mystic. yes, use the velveeta don't you? i do that for parties. i use the velveeta. we call it lima beans with cheese and mushroom sauce. the pinto beans i get to cook like i do with salt pork and hambone. the pork and beans, do you you document them up? he likes him plain. do you know where and of the chili recipe cards are? yes. i sure don't. i may have one or two here but someone's got it and i will find it because i need that one also. okay, nice talking to you. velveeta for special occasions. [laughter] >> only the best. >> if you get the audiobook, you can get the tape.

>> you could have sent me an audiotape rather than me spending all night reading this book? >> yeah, it's a fun conversation. it shows you how this white house goes into spin control they go to her. another couple of stories that i want to tell involves cooks for franklin roosevelt franklin roosevelt? >> yes, the white house food reputation during roosevelt's administration was horrible. >> tell everybody the years 1933. the problem was eleanor roosevelt was uninterested in food. for much of our presidential history, the first lady had an active hand in the food operations. she knew what her husband liked, she, she would made sure what her husband wanted and needed. she was also the one that would save the president from themselves because often presidents would like to stray from their diet and get comfort food and junk food. eleanor roosevelt meets harry at

nesbitt in new york and henrietta couldn't cook. >> is your sister? no, a white woman. you had this team of african-american cooks who she supervised. they had to put something good out. but what we find out from memoirs is that henrietta would stand behind them and correct the seasoning. she messed everything up. it was so bad you all that when people got invited to a state dinner at the white house they ate before they went. [laughter] >> dang. >> yet, to cook so i talk about was named libby mcduffie she would help up with the food and there was a woman named davey bonner who cooks for roosevelt went he would go to warm springs georgia for his treatment for polio. >> p, unlike his wife, he appreciated boot. >> he would go for two to three weeks at a time and a wealthy

family in warm springs allowed their african-american cook to cook for him. the first lady and the white house position were with him and they knew the food wasn't going to be great because it would be something that adhered to diet. bonner and mcduffie would look at the president and decide whether he was peaked or not ? "mark yes, pale, not healthy, not healthy. if he was peaked they would bring the food out that the first lady or the doctor prescribed and as they were putting the plate by him they would whisper in his ear, don't need that. [laughter] fdr would fake like he wasn't hungry and play with his food and once everyone cleared, they take them back into the kitchen and hook him up with what he really wanted. [laughter] >> is a bittersweet story where she prepares what would be his last meal. back right, the day he died he is sitting for a portrait in daisy bonner had a jesus play

time to be served at 115. fdr has his cerebral hemorrhage at 112. the soufflé never got served but what she recounts is a true miracle. if anybody here has ever made is to play what happens if you let that simply sit around. it falls, right? ladies and gentlemen i'm in a tell you about a miracle. [laughter] >> you heard it first in her to hear. >> daisy bonner says that soufflé did not fall until three hours later when the president was pronounced dead, that's what she says. >> she was keeping hope alive. she was hoping it would be consumed by him after all. >> she was so moved by his death that she wrote on the wall in pencil, daisy bonner cooked first and last meal for president roosevelt. if you go to the cottage to the status preserves behind some plastic and she is one who called the white house export to notify them of his death.

very interesting. she got him hooked on southern food and pick feet. that's another. >> that's another southern dish she would broil them and butter them. >> what ? as if there's not enough fat content in a picks but. [laughter] check this out. we know from one story that he served pick feet in the white house. yes. [laughter] >> not just to anybody but to the british prime minister, winston churchill back he was served sweet-and-sour pick feet to winston churchill. he take one bite and fdr who love this dish asks him how he likes it. evidently, churchill was not feeling it and says it's interesting, slimy texture and fdr's like wonderful you'll like them fries fried.

churchill says i don't think i would like them fried. they both crack up laughing. just to show how much he loved pixie if you go to warm springs georgia they have a case that has preserved the shopping list for the last week of his life. on that shopping list is for hogs feet so, he had the fever. >> he had the fever i was gonna say something else, but it's nasty. >> okay, all right. how are we doing on time? >> i don't know. you're the moderator. [laughter] let me explain this. this presidential pickle thing because you're probably wondering what is the presidential pickle. i did not come across that detail the mac okay, it's my metaphor for how i'm dealing with food. we want our president to be extraordinary but we want them to be like us. food is often gives us a sense of whether they have a common touch or not. that's a kool-aid pickle.

make it look like the presidential kielbasa. >> sometimes a pickle is just a pickle to make but it's red. >> does anyone know what a quote laid pickle is if you don't know about kool-aid pickles, here's how you make a kool-aid pickle. you get a jar of dill pickles, take off the top, put kool-aid in with the pickle juice, stay with me. and you poke holes in the pickle or you slice them, cut them put them back in the jar and leave them there for two weeks, take them out and eat them. if you like the taste of pickles and of kool-aid, it's just a and sour comedies. if you don't like either one, this is the nastiest thing you'll put in your mouth. [laughter] >> and do you like them? >> i do like them. it's fascinating and weird and

it may endear us but it gives us how we feel about the presidency sometimes. >> right. it's interesting that you left off that's a nice segue and we can come back to it. but it's presidency week, your book just came out, lots of news, lots of stuff and you did leave off with 44. >> i did. i finished the book before the election. are you glad? >> [] [laughter] the first century and a half that a lot of these people their grandparents and great grandparents are descended from slaves who are working in the white house from day one did you get a sense there are any

legacies families in the different staff positions. most of the legacy families really kind of disappeared in the 70s and 80s and 90s. in terms of the white house kitchen, for the most part, the head cook position and it only becomes the executive staff in 1961 because declan kennedy created that position. before that they were called the first. they were but when jacqueline kennedy's that i want european food by european trained chef the african-americans didn't have that expertise and that specialized training. >> some of the techniques passed down and even we look at the back the ones who hadn't gone to that training. they start to winnow out over time. the woman i talked about was really the last african-american to be the kitchen and she was an

interim because the one hired by the kennedys couldn't handle it under the johnsons. here you had this french chef. >> and a southern president. >> johnson would ask them to make nachos, you've heard of chili con queso, heat called it to be concrete. a lot of attention. in that transition when he was looking for another seth, he manages to get a raise while she does it. since then, the only other person offered the job was becca clark, patrick clark, he was working at the hotel across from the white house what he was auditioning for the job because the clintons would come over there and eat and other staffers. he turned it down because it was too much of a pay cut. he was making a couple hundred thousand at the hotel and at that time the white house job for an executive chef was around 58000, something like that. he had four kids, so you know,

it was easy math. >> math math and money is fascinating. how different administrations and different presidencies that you write about here present an image of thrift and economy, the the didn't want to waste the taxpayers dollars and the extent to which they, even early, there's a big brouhaha with the washington and there's people like thomas jefferson who are like what ever, i'm flying them in from italy and go all out and over extravagant. the reason most people don't know this but before president truman, presidents had to pay for their staff entertaining and food out of their own pocket. it was not that difficult because they were often wealthy. >> the ones who weren't wealthy were very creative. for instance, abraham lincoln and ulysses grant would do their

shopping at the army commissaries. rather than getting stuff at the market to make ends meet. >> the whole thing about when they shopped openly or on the dl , the reason i asked about the staff because i heard and i don't know if it's real news or fake news but i heard potus 45 fired the entire staff, people who had history there and that they can't do the lights on because they fired everybody who had come to do, fake news ? >> that's alternative news. i have not heard that. what's happening right now is because they haven't actually hired anybody yet. you have holdovers from the obama administration cooking in the kitchen. the three african-americans who are on staff as assistant chefs, they're probably still in the kitchen. it's hard because no one is commenting and we don't know is going on. you don't have any insider stories?

on the outside looking in. there's a filipino working as the white house executive chef during the george w bush's' executive second term she cooked out both terms of president obama. as far as i know, she's still in that position. >> i want to make sure we have enough time for q&a so if novella could let me know when we want to start that, give me a signal. do you want to talk about before we wrap about about the obama's? >> the obama's were interesting interesting with the garden in the past for healthy eating. what's interesting about them is that they were a couple that ate outside the white house quite a bit. the supported restaurant. what happens when the president goes to eat outside the white house. >> meaning not like alfresco but in a restaurant? >> right.

so, what they do the secret service goes and they secure the kitchen of the restaurant and they get the security numbers of everyone there that you're kidding. >> no, you have to make sure that everyone can be there. no one else can come into the kitchen after that and the interesting thing is reportedly, there is a trained chef on the secret service who stands behind whoever is preparing food and make sure no sign i get in. >> and their arms while they're doing it zero my gosh. drama. >> the elimination challenge, not the same thing. [laughter] what else you want to talk about that there's one other funny story i'd like to share. a lot of these cooks and people involved in food services, they

make a president comfortable. one of my favorite stories involve a lot of the fields. alonzo fields was a long time butler becomes maître d'. during the truman and the eisenhower fee maître d' runs a lot of the stuff in the white house, responsible for a lot of the food. the truman's love to have a cocktail hour before they eat dinner and their favorite cocktail was an old fashion. if you know about an old fashion it's bourbon and rye whiskey with a simple syrup of sugar and water, some bidders and garnished with some citrus, and orange peel. they asked for these old-fashioned and alonzo makes us old-fashioned and brings it, truman takes one sip and she says can you make this dryer were not used to our old fashion been so sweet.

fields like alright. he reconfigures the formula and makes the drink. served that and beth truman takes one sip and says this taste like fruit punch. he was a little hurt. the next night he decides to just rave straight bourbon. [laughter] beth truman takes one sip it says that's how we like our old fashion. >> hey now. that's what i love about this book. there's a lot of stories about the people in the food and some of these recipes are slamming. i don't know about the presidential pickle but. that split peas soup, i don't like meant unless the gum or toothpaste but that recipe was white the bomb. i tried it. that is a laura bush favorite. if you go to the presidential library in the dallas texas is on the menu at the restaurant there. it's really good. it's a great recipe. >> there so much stuff. i think there will be a time,

did you already have a chance to see the book, go to the bookshop or what's going happen after this. i highly recommend it because it's really a great read and a great way to learn, learn stuff that really is so sparsely documented. you talked about that. the humming foundation, were talking talking about someone from the most famous slate family and the history and still sparse amount of information, no images, no pictures, he was literate so where are the recipes that he wrote down, where they destroyed or lost? >> my hope is that as word gets out about this book, african-american presidential presidential chefs who were shy to share their stories will realize they're part of this rich legacy and they will help ensure the stores. i'll keep a website going to chronicle this information and i'll keep an active database by admin space. if you look in the book i write

down the names we know of who i work for a particular president and will see that some industries that have a couple names some have several and i hope to keep adding to that list. so that these people were known and we have their names. >> it so important. [applause] that's why we established the foundation. and there so much synergy between what we are doing and what you did. they are important. they sacrificed a lot they contributed a lot. they gave away a lot, they took credit didn't take credit for a lot. some of the recipes are documented but we have to remember that books like the virginia housewives, documented by white authors so we have to be a detective sometime to find where these recipes are great.

in terms of the recipes and the reputation of these cooks, so, the there's been this rivalry between the french cooking and other things around the world. french cooking was that as the cooking of entertaining, the highest standard but often americans would come back and talk about southern cooking. often african-american women were the face of american cooking and when they were writing about our cooking that's who they brought forth. that's why laura dolly johnson is very important. she's a free woman, biracial, who has to be talked into working at the white house kitchen. benjamin harrison harrison does so because his friend peter roosevelt recommend sally johnson. dolly johnson was the cook for colonel mason and when benjamin harrison becomes president, roosevelt recommends dolly johnson.

she comes to work at the white house kitchen but there was one big problem. there was already a french woman who had that job. this very french cook had a very american responses. she filed a lawsuit and she went to the press. this is the first time that a staffer sues the president. it gets resolved and then she went to the president talked about how poor the habits were for the harrison and other things but dolly johnson gets the job and she is celebrated in headlines all across the country. they state full name and she's one of the few examples of a cook that leaves the white house and trades on her own name and establishes a second career. you don't see that a lot with african-americans. it's that they don't disparage her with the whole i have a whole different perspective on that. they try to disparage us and put us down but it sounds like they talked about her as a human being. >> somewhat.

they dwell on her looks a lot so you feel like it's been written by a teenage boy. [laughter] but they do recognize her much more than others. it's interesting. >> definitely looking forward to continuing the conversation, not tonight tonight and right now, will let you have some questions and move on with the rest of the program but thank you so much. adrian, it's been a blessing. thank you for carrying on the work of our ancestors. >> yeah, cool. thanks. >> the question is how did i get the recipes and did i test them. >> the microphones are at the back of the auditorium. please use them. >> it was a combination. i reached out to several presidential staff and used if i could use them their recipes.

a lot of them come from looking at old cookbooks and old newspapers. some recipes i actually called family members from the presidents and just to see, i didn't get a lot of recipes from them but they pointed me in the right direction to a printed rest. for instance, i talked to linda bird johnson, the, the eldest daughter of the johnsons and the strongest member she had was of the popovers. i included that recipe in the book. it's a mix. there are two other interesting recipes i have the state dinner for nelson mandela that patrick clark actually devised but at the last minute the clinton said no you're not cooking but you'll be an honored guest here. if you want to re-create that mill which was a lesson requested hal a bit with vegetables and red curry and lemongrass dressing, you can at home if you buy my book. [laughter] another quick recipe was a for a

young lady who was colorado's 2014 representative to the kids state dinners that michelle obama had. michelle obama would have a recipe contest and a winner was picked from every state. the winning recipe, had to be healthy, they would get to go to the white house and eat some of the winning entrées and stuff. she was the toughest interview to get in my book because i used to date her mother and it did not end well. [laughter] there's a picture in here as well, you must of got the interview. [laughter] next question. [laughter] i was wondering if you found out stories of enslaved black women trying to poison any of the

presidents? >> i never found any examples in presidential cooking of the enslaved folks trying to poison the presidents. this is a frequently asked question. who is the official taste tester for the president. my quick answer is it's usually the present strongest critic. i'm just kidding. [laughter] it's actually the stuff. the chef is the last person to taste the food that's put in front of the president. that's an incentive not to poison it. i read something, you didn't go into detail but you mentioned something about leverage and how different ways or protests show up over the years and i don't know if you are but you talked about poisoning there are stories and it doesn't go into detail but it's not relative to the presidential to our knowledge but you did mention

that. >> i talk about the story of the poison teapot of 1776. the story goes that samuel francis his daughter phoebe is cooking a meal for general washington at that time. there is a guy that thomas was in washington guard who wasn't really feeling the revolution so he distracts phoebe while she's cooking and adds some extra seasoning to the teeth and the peace go out to general washington. phoebe thanks something is going on and so she talks to francis her father emilio understands what's happening. as the story goes, he burst through the kitchen, grabbed the paint of peace before washing taken gigabyte and throws it out the window. at that precise moment a ticket was walking by. [laughter] either the teeth and dies. [laughter]

.... .... >> that you found that was surprising to you? that you thought you knew and you were like this fascinating. >> i think the most surprising thing was the number of cooks that have been in the white house kitchen. my own research has uncovered 150 and i know i am scratching the surface because there were a

lot of fires over time oh i think records have been destroyed. one is we have been there from day one in a continued presence in all these ways. the other part was this civil rights advocate part. i didn't know people outside the white house went to the took to get to the president. i thought that was fascinating. >> hi, i saw the washington macaroni and cheese dish on one of your slides. >> yeah, jefferson. >> i know chef ashbell talked about james himings brought back that recipe from his days in france. to what extent is that recipe related to himings and what extent did you find the influence of him throughout the

cooking you examined. >> earliest mention of macaroni and cheese were essentially the pasta, parmesian cheese and butter. over time other elements get added. what we find in the book is the old school recipe. which is probably what hemmings made. >> he had several because of the art and innovation. you talk about adding the cream, butter and extra cheese. from our research, he was maybe obsessive about testing recipes and doing different versions of them and ice cream is another one he is linked to. the controversial ice cream and where does it originate.

without a doubt, we know jefferson's kitchen is one of the reasons it became so poplarized. the macaroni and cheese. it became one of the early -- it went from a high end dish to becoming a comfort food we take for granted today. >> another interesting story is we know jefferson loved mac and cheese because he served it in february 6t, 1802 in the white house and we know because the reverend wrote about it in his diary. he sees this mate of mac and cheese and has no concept for what it was. he thought the pasta was giant onions. he asked the guy next to him,

mary weather lewis of lewis and clark, what it was. jefferson takes them to the largest room in the white house to look at the great cheese. when he was inaugurated dairy farmers sent him a ton of cheese. it was just on display. >> was it moldy? >> when andrew jackson is elected there is a similar gift given to him. it was sitting around for months and he thought the best way to get rid of it was open the white house and serve punch and let people have all the chose they want. the white house was tore up and cheese in the carpet and curtains and they said it smelled like cheese for months. >> was this the first government cheese deposit? >> i like that. with orange drink. >> it should have been red drink. >> to answer the second part of your question and jefferson was

teased about having a half french, half virginia style and the fact he gets the knowledge and imparts it on others who would cook for him shows the ongoing legacy of french cooking in the white house. we have alternating presidents some big in french food and some are are mot. james monroe, big fan. >> his plantation was near. james' training staff and there was efrdz the neighboring plantations were being influenced. madison, monroe, and the different counties and how that spreads and how it catches up with the chef that a lot of people know and lewis who comes to new york in the 1930s and opens up a restaurant and is a huge influence on the revival and appreciation of southern cus cusine. they say the ice cream was more

like a shake. he finds out how to make it firmer and you know puts it inside a baked pastry. just all these really innovative techniques that show up on fine dining restaurants still to this day which there is a link between the plantations and that. >> this conversation between french and american food and acchaem drink, wine is another way this plays out well into the 20th sefrpry. the kennedy's got a lot of flack for jacqueline kennedy's state menus printed in french and serving french wine. the white house has a strong policy of serving american wine. and lbj takes it to had next level saying every embassy has to serve american wine. >> and bourbon.

>> no, but he was a bourbon guy. the swiss had a very funny reaction. they were amused and said we understand what americans are doing. there are african-american -- fine american wines but all french wines are great. >> we will take the last question. >> wonderful presentation. two quickies since it is the last one. >> one! >> our colleague argues that much of what goes misunderstood in african cultures occurs because of our inability to understand similarity. so, in your opinion what does food symbolize within the context of the work you do? and relatedly, then if music becomes the language of the soul, what is food? >> yeah, so i think food is a great connector.

and a lot of my work is about how do we bring different people together through food. but i think food symbolizes a world perspective. you know, if you have someone who is an ad venturous eater and curious they are usually open to a lot of different perspectives. if you have somebody eating the same food all the time i think it a window on the personality of that person. many times we really don't get a sense for who the preseason really is. it is an artificial image but out there. when we get looks at how they live, what they like to eat, what they enjoy doing in free time it gives us a sense of if that is someone we can relate to. we want presidents who are relatable and presidents want to be relatable. if they are unpopular they can't get their agenda enforced as well. this conversation that feeds upon itself. i think food is a critical part of that. >> yeah, and it a connector.

if i had to pick a symbol for food i feel like it a connector. i feel like you illustrate that. a connection between people who may see different. presidents and the staff and connection to ourselves and culture today. our connection to the land, the past, the history, to the future oh it is very connective symbol so i hope we answered your question and thank you for that question. gl thank you. >> as we close out this particular program, i want to remind you all we are selling adrian's book today in your book shop and we will have a book signing following this. please give our panelists a welcome applause. [applause]

gl have a good evening. >> we will have more booktv tomorrow night with highlights of recent book festivals. former senator barbara boxer discusses her book the art of tough. from the vusana book festival, "forbes" mag wreen john tamny on his book who needs the fed's. a discussion about epidemics from the tucson festival of books. donald mcneal on this book wreaka, the emerging epidemic. and from the virginia festival of the book, a state department's decision about the media with frank says no and april ryan. part of booktv in prime time each might this week c-span2. >> c-pan's washington journal live every day. coming up wednesday morning,

national journal associate editor sam baker discusses neal gorsuch's first days on the bench and previews oral arguments in a religious liberty case being heard on wednesday. and indivisible cofunders talk about progressive actvivism and cnbc senior contributor will discuss how the white house is adopting significant changing to the tax code. be sure to watch c-span's washington journal. >> c-span where history unfolds daily. in 1979 c-span was created as a public service by america's cable television companies and brought to you today by our cable or satellite provider.

>> richard is the former president of the corpus christi college oxford and the author of "lincoln's sense of humor." next we talks about president lincoln and his book at the winston churchill library on the campus of the george washington university in washington d.c. this is an hour and 15 minutes. >> good evening and welcome to the national churchill library and center. my name is michael bishop and i am director of the library and executive director of the international churchill society. the result of a collaboration between the society and the george washington university, the library first research facility in the nation's capitol