i think that is another thing i am doing with this book and that is allow us to see what the early days of the new country looks like through the eyes of the cloud. >> you write the current presidential nomination process is a hodgepodge of past reform movements, rules instituted by national and state parties, strategic behaviors of candidates, the actions of campaign professionals and con tr tributers and state and national laws. can you break it down? >> well, probably the most recent big change came in the 1970s when the democratic party

changed the rules to a more national process. candidates who do well in primaries do better and you start watching you saw the changes. there were no rules on how delegates were selected. sometimes they were appointed and many were national officials. there were 15-16 presidential primaries at the time and even there the connection between

someone vote in the primary may not have related to the kind of delegate who would be at a convention. they had to follow the rules as pausz and easy way to -- process -- to change the rules. >> it was disaster. so that was the convention where hubert humpry won and there was eugene mccarthy and robert kennedy and they felt they had been short changes in the ability to get support at the

convention. >> did the republicans follow suit? >> no, they didn't really do much with rules until around 2000. they were likely to leave it up to the states and the states selected with the primaries. when >> when were the first primaries held in the political system? >> in the early 1900s. 1912 turned out to be a disaster because that was the year teddy

roosevelt decided he wanted to be president again. the republican president howard taft was getting the traditional support. >> did they stop that behavior? stha >> it put a halt on it and the presidential primaries were not as important. they were not always connected to the delegate selection. they got somewhat important. >> when did the smoke filled

back rooms fade away? they faded away in the 1800s not so much because of presidential primaries but other out siside influences. you started getting polling in the 1930s and since the aim of the convention is to nominate a poplar presidential candidate. it might not have been a formal following of it but it seemed to have influence. there are more outside pressures from interest groups, media providing more coverage with radio and television so that sort of that thinking. winning in iowa or new hampshire gives the candidate a lot of media attention, more campaign

con fwrugz -- contributions and this should help them win. momental doesn't always last. you might thing of that in the way of barack obama with the ability to overtake health care in 2008 as the hillary clinton was the frontrunner and that went to barack obama later on. >> what is the caucus? >> the caucus is the older format and you have people coming into a community center, library, gym, and supposedly talking about the candidates and having a grass root democracy.

the people came there with their preferences firm. it is a way to socialize with your neighbors and perhaps through that process. it is very drawn out. >> does the system work? >> does the system work? >> it is probably better than anything we can think of or get pasted. it brings in different voices so you get the voters voice through the primary. the caucus is attracting more from the actvists or the people intensely involved in politics. the elite endorsements that governors or senators or members of the house make to give a

voice to those individuals. we get a lot of different voices that come into the process. it doesn't always produce a smooth result but it does produce a result that probably taps into at least some of those voices. >> has it weakened the parties? >> the national parties have a little bit of difficulty controlling the process and the state parties have a lot of influence in the past as well. the parties have been leasing by lots of things that happens in the past. the state law regulated the

policies quite heavily and there is competition for the parties. there is social media where i am not sure anyone can control that. the parties have been weekend but not just because of this. >> it has a lot to do with tradition and going back to the early 1900s when these laws were passed. so somewhat states and you think they adopted a closed primary. other states where the progressive movement was stronger they were likely to

adopt a no party registration and everyone can goat. >> what that an oddity? >> it is odd something being open and some being closed. there are lots of people trying to influence what is happening with the national state parties and it is odd because most countries don't use primary elections to make nominations. >> why did the democrats bring super delegates in the process and what is a super delegate?

usually an affected leader and party leader. it was developed in the 1980s by the democrats in response to what happened after the initial reform like in '72 and '76 didn't have the traditional senators or governors being part of that process. they wanted to bring back in the voice of those individuals who traditionally had influence. so they developed those in the 1980s. since the time they changed the number of people who are super delegated but they have the idea of supporting each candidate. >> what is the goal? >> what was my goal? try to explain how we got to where we are today.

we want them to npdz why we have what we have today >> how were candidates chosen prior to the 1800s? it was a convention where states sent delegated and they were party regulators without much information about bought was happening. so they would go through a series of roll calls of notes because one candidate brought the required number of delegates to win. sometimes it happened fairly quickly so lincoln was nominateed on the third battle. there was a democratic convention in the early 1900s which went over a hundred. there could be candidates not

campaigning but it more internal to the convention. >> what potential changes do you see on the horizon for how we select our candidates? >> they have been tinkering with the rules all along. the republicans between 2012-2016 made it so that the delegates that were selected particularly in process states would reflect that initial caucus vote and not so much some of the things that would happen after the fact.

nobody controls the entire process that could implement that kind of reform. >> we have been talking barbara norrander the "the imperfect primary" is her book. >> here is look at books being published this week: two united states senators have books coming. al franken recalls this campaign in giants of the senate. and mike lee reports on lesser known figures who influence the u.s. constitution in written out of history. senators franken and lee will appear on our afterwards program in the coming weeks. and tom coburn officers thoughts on reducing government spending in smashing the d.c. monopoly.

gram explores the relationships between china and the u.s. in destined for car. and sean mckeek n takes a closer look at the edgnd of the rule or the russian leadership. watch were many of the authors in the near future on booktv on c-span2. ....