ups and downs of life.it is an adventure. >> this is been a wonderful conversation and thank youfor allowing us to cover you.>> like was, thank you johnny . >> the river provides residents an opportunity to enjoy nature., along with us author bill sullivan who shares a history for his book or on trips and trails. >>. >> eugene is in a beautiful spot but it's also a fragile place. and people are a little bit defensive about that. former governor, call shot initial tv audience with when he went on air to tell people not to come to oregon. he said visit all you want, we love tourists but for gods

sake don't move to oregon. >> forgot was settled by walkers, it turns out the earliest known evidence of humans anywhere in the americas north and south is in oregon indicated eastern oregon and the dna that was taken from the university of oregon, the paleontologists have done this shows that various ancestors came from siberia so this is the first proof of the alaska land ridge theory that shows the people actually want to come to oregon, the descendents of those people are still here at the oregon tries but i think there's also this transition of wanting because the white settlers came on the oregon trail, they did writing those wagons, they were full of gear, they walked over here in today, when spring comes in the day like this, you want to get outside, cabin fever just rages because it rains in the winter here and you get a nice day in april like this and people are lacing up their hiking boots and hitting the trails and maybe there's that echo of the oregon trail and the first native tribe wanting to oregon that persists here,

people still want to get out and walk. >> my book is called oregon on trips and trails and it's a compilation of the various places i can find in the state. the best hiking trails, the cruel cities in hot springs and places to stay. it's sort of like those eyewitness guides they have for countries in europe. it'll cover oregon and if they did they did it wrong and they cover five-star resorts and stuff. that's not what people in oregon care as much about. it really is the outdoor and cool little hideaways. >> well the federal government owns half the state of oregon, 50 percent is national forest or bureau of land management plan. so that plays a huge role. blood on some, oregon pays more in taxes than we get back. and there's some controversy about about that. people feel that some people feel that we should get that

federal land and use it and develop it but a lot of people are saying whatever you doing a nice job of protecting. and so let's keep it in public ownership and so that's why there's a very strong movement for wilderness and preservation in oregon. for my series of hiking guides i have five books that cover different parts of the state, each book 100 featured hikes so that 500. and each book also has 100 more at the back. less interesting trails, so that's 1000 trails in oregon and people ask me and you hyped them all? and i have to tell them yes, it's what i do, it's a tough job writing for a living. >> of my favorite is called the obsidian trail and this is in the three sisters area these are three 10,000 portable cano's that are in hours drive from here and if

you want to go snowboarding in august on a glacier, you can do that up there. but the trail is so popular that it's one of the few in oregon that you have to have a permit now and they only let 20 groups a day hike that trail but you've got wildflower fields and lawful flows with obsidian, this black glass. there's volcanic craters, glaciers and this is all in a five or six mile hike, waterfalls andlakes. that's a pretty cool life . one of the toughest trails is one that goes up five sisters and this is a 10,000 foot volcano and you wouldn't think they're the hiking trail at the top but there is. and you don't need a permit. you just have to have a lot of stamina as you are dating 5000 feet of elevation and about five miles . >> the next hardest one would be hells canyon. this is on the idaho border and they are your losing 5000 feet of elevation. start on the rim and hike down to the snake river so

that seems easy but in the afternoon in the heat of the day you got to come back . welcome to downtown eugene, this is close to where eugene was founded over 100 years ago and still is the heart of the city and your thinking well wait, this is a whitewater river with trails in the woods on either side but that is what eugene is really about. so we're on a bicycle bridge, pedestrian bridge. eugene has more ridges for bikes and pedestrians that has for cars across the river. in this town, the score is five before. >> and this one is just fine in the middle you can go 10 miles on either side of the bike path through the woods and not even know you're in the city most of the time. well eugene is used extremely bike friendly city and this is by design. the bike lanes and bike paths, separate bike paths all over the city so that you don't have to fight traffic and it makes it handy for commuting. but our former mayor was the

one who completed the trails along both sides of the river. her crowning achievement as a mayor was to build a path. that tells you something about eugene. there was a time when the land river was on steamboats and this was as far as they could come up the river but it no longer is used for transportation and it was also this huge fishery with salmon coming up in this iconic oregon outdoor experience, salmon coming up but then there was a area of bad pollution and people were so upset that they declared the entire web river at greenway, cleanup the pollution, salmon are coming back and it's now a canoe rat. you continue from here to portland, 150 miles on a canoe down to the land. >> and on that route you'd almost never see a farmer or a house or a city, who would imagine that you are in the

wilderness for 120 miles? oregon has always been kind of a magic name, just oregon. it speaks of mystery and beauty and i'm hoping that my book will help people find that part. is a great place to visit but maybe you don't want to come here to live. >> today, author and journalist matt baby will be our guest on in-depth. >> if you are among thousands of faces, until one day you see that one face that you see is put on earth just for you and that you fall in love in that moment. you know, for me, trunk was like that except it was the opposite. when i first saw him on the campaign trail i thought this is a person whose unique, horrible and amazing, terrible characteristics were put on earth specifically for me to appreciate or

unappreciated or whatever the verb is. because i had really been spending a lot of the last 10 to 12 years without knowing it preparing for donald trump to happen. >> matt. [speaking foreign language] is a contributor to rolling stone magazine and is the author of books including smells like dead elephant, dispatches from arriving empire. a great arrangement: a terrifying true story of war, politics, religion. chris tobia, a study of bankers, politicians and the most audacious power grab in american history. and his most recent book, insane clown president: dispatches from the 2016 service. during our life three hour conversation we will take your call and facebook questions on mister taibbi's literary career. watch in-depth with author and journalist max taibbi

live from noon to 3 pm eastern today. >> one thing that was clear is that is utterly boring to understand the biology of the motoric aspects of your behavior. your brain tells your spine, tells your muscles to do something and hooray, you've behaved. what's incredibly complicated is understanding the meaning of the behavior caused in one setting , firing a gun is some appalling act and in another it's an act of life will self-sacrifice. in one sitting putting your hand on top of someone else's is deeply compassionate and then another entity the trail but the challenge for us is to understand the biology of the context of our behaviors and that one was really, really challenging and one thing is weird as you are never going to really understand what's going on if you get into your head that you're going to be able to understand everything that this is the part of the brain or the gene or the hormone or

the childhood experience or the evolutionary mechanism that explains everything. cause it doesn't work that way. instead, any behavior that occurs is the outcome of the biology that occurred a second before and an hour before and allthe way through 1 million years before. okay. to give you a sentence of this, you're in some situation , there's a crisis. there's writing. violence going on, people running around and there's a stranger running at you in an educated state and you can't quite be sure what their facial expression is. maybe they're angry, maybe they're frightened, maybe it's threatening. they got something in their hand that seems like a handgun and you're standing there and you have done and they come running at you and you shoot.and then it turns out that what they had in their hand was a cell phone instead. and thus we asked a biological question: why did that behavior occur in you? and what's the central point

is, that's a whole hierarchy of questions. why did that behavior occur, what went on one second before in your brain that brought about that behavior? to begin to understand that, the part of the brain that's at the top of the list of usual suspects is a brain region called the amygdala. you want to think about aggression and think about the brain, you think about the and the dog. if you stimulate the amygdala and a mental lab animal you get an outburst of aggression. humans who have rare types of seizures that start their, rare types of tumors based in the amygdala, uncontrollable violence. if you damage the amygdala you bluntly ability of an organism to be aggressive so the amygdala is about violence. that said, if you sit down in your typical endodontist and ask them what it's about, that's not the first word is going to come out of their

mouths because for most people studying it, what the amygdala is about this fear. fear and anxiety and learning to be afraid. in other words, if you can learn something interesting which is you cannot understand the first thing about the neurobiology of violence without understanding neurobiology of fear in a world in which no amygdala neuron need to be afraid, there be a lot more of us sleeping between liens and labs. the thing that begin to make sense of the amygdala is what parts of the brain doesn't talk to? and which regions talk to it in turn? the next region that is incredibly interesting is all the insular cortex. the insular cortex is incredibly boring if you're a lab rat or any other metal on earth because there's something straightforward, you bite into a piece of food and it's spoiled and rotten and fetid and rancid and all of that and what happens is as a result, your insular cortex activates and it triggers all sorts of reflexes, your stomach

lurches, you gag, you spit it out. you have a gag reflex. useful, it keeps metals from eating poisonous foods and you do the same thing with humans, get a nice human volunteer who is convinced the bite into this food that's rancid and discussing and there in a brain scanner and their cortex activates. we do something fancier, all we have to do is think about eating something stuffing and the insular cortex activates but then something much more subtle. sit down someone in your brain scanner and have them tell you about the time they did something miserable and rotten to some other human. or, tell them about some other occurrence of some human doing something miserable and rotten to somebody else and the insular cortex will activate. in every other metal on earth, does gustatory discussed but in us, it also does moral disgust. and what that tells you is why it is that something is

sufficiently morallyappalling , we feel sick to our stomachs. it leaves a bad taste in our mouth. we feel soiled by it, we feel nauseous. because our brain invented the symbolic thing of moral morays and standards some 40, 50,000 years ago and didn't invent a new part of the brain at the time. instead there was presumably some sort of committee meeting and they say okay, moral disgust is, there's the insular that does like to discuss. it's in their portfolio now. give me some duct tape, the insular cortex is now going to do moral disgust and it has trouble telling the difference and no surprise, the main part of the brain the insular cortex talks to in human brain is the amygdala because once it decides decide this thing is disgusting, you're a couple steps away from it being scary. it being menacing, it being something you need to act against. in lots of ways, it's very

cool. because suppose you see some moral bill that needs to be cured and some of the time that can take enormous self-sacrifice, the ultimate sacrifice in some cases ended moral outrage was this abstraction, this sort of distance to sort of stay, it would be hard to pick up a head ofsteam to be able to act against it . the viscera, your stomach churning, that's where the force comes to to make a moral imperative imperative. that's great. then there's a downside. the cause the insular cortex is not very good at remembering it's only a metaphor that you are feeling disgusted and suddenly, you have the whole problem of the world of people who are disgusted by somebody's behavior which wish in somebody else's eyes is a normal, loving lifestyle. discuss is a moving target in time and space and there is

the danger to decide that being morally disgusted by something is a pretty good litmus test for deciding between right and wrong and we sure know all the ways in which they can get you into trouble and probably most of all, every ideologue in history has had a brilliant intuitive feeling for how the insular cortex works which is if you can get your minions to the point that when you talk about them, then living in the next valley, then who think differently than you, who pray differently, who love differently, if you can get your followers to the point that when you invoke them, the insular cortex activates the cause there's something just disgusting about them, your 90 percent of the way toward pulling off your successful genocide. a key to every good genocidal movement is taking them and turning them into being such infestations and malignancies and whatever's that they hardly even count as human anymore. >> watch this and other programs online at booktv.org.

>> c-span: where history unfolds daily. in 1979, c-span was created as a public service by america's cable television companies. and is brought to you today by your cable or satellite provider. >> next on after words, msnbc host chris hayes discusses his book o'connell colony and the nation. it examines how the criminal justice system is dividing the country into twoamerica's . he's interviewed by elizabeth henson, author of from the war on poverty to the war on crime. the making of mass incarceration in america. >> chris hayes, it's so wonderful to have you here. it's an important