[inaudible conversations] i'm coming back. i'm coming back -- [silence] >> you're watching booktv on c-span2 television for serious readers here's our prime time lineup, at 7 p.m. eastern, you'll hear from former head leader christian, author of a memoir entitled romantic violence. memoir of an american skinhead. ...

>> >> he began the painstaking process of rebuilding his life and in the year 2009, he co-founded organization called life

after hate the nonprofit organization helps people to disengage from hate and violence extremas of in 2015 christian decided to turn his state into ashley ending and wrote a book called a reject violence following his talk last two questions and then you can have an opportunity to engage. [applause] >> it is a real pleasure to be here don't be distracted by that terrible view outside my name is christian picciolini and i dirty here

began 1973 november 43 years ago but 22 years ago in 1995 when i left finally the neo-nazis skinheads that i helped build almost from the very beginning. twenty-two years old at the time but i had already spent eight years every single one of my formative teenagers as part of the neo-nazi skinhead gained but before that i was a relatively normal teenager. i had a thing florida -- for happy days my parents were italian immigrants who came in the '60s and they were often the victims of prejudice them sell so racism is not what i grew up

with that was the opposite. we always have different people of cultures and religions visiting and i became very comfortable with that but because they were immigrants the also had to work very hard in this country. they opened a small beauty shop in chicago in that kept them busy seven days a week sometimes 14 hours a day. i lived in a very italian part of chicago but when i was born they move me to a place that lacked diversity that was a very white suburban areas so i never knew where i fit if i was italian or american because of the traditional culture they kept me in a very close abubble. so i have a lot of struggles

growing up with low self-esteem and a no-confidence i was bullied pretty severely because of my name and i was different also i was very short and there really started to want to be very american in a was tired of sticking out and started to resent my parents for being immigrants and also not being there for me so i felt very bin and buy them so one day when i was going through this search for an identity beyond community and a sense of purpose and that is what every fed the searches for, i had this grievance or self hatred i was standing in an alley smoking a joint in the man drove up in a 1968 firebird and screeches to a halt and got out of the

car and looked me in the eyes and said don't you know that is what the communists and choose what you to? i did not know where a communist was i did not know of a new 86 or friday what the word got silent -- and also meant. i felt powerless i did not have any friends or community so when this man came up to me he promised me paradise and said come with me would not be powerless you will be powerful. you will not be alone i will give to this community and i got very interested. then he told me about the dangers that existed my a

community that african-americans were moving and and immigrants were taking jobs and jewish people control the media and finances i did not quite understand that but two out of three was a bad i would join the group and feel powerful and i started to learn the ideology i didn't have the basis or didn't understand why you is talking about i certainly didn't see those things happening in my neighborhood they claimed were happening but i was lonely and of 14 years old i pledge my allegiance to this man who was the first neo-nazi skinhead singer went from the kid with the hair cut from happy days to one of the first skinheads.

as i was involved in this organization started to learn the rhetoric and conspiracy theories the end they would use your rhetoric to scare us to do harm to other people to stop that from happening. and now look back to say how could i have fallen for that? because now we see the same conspiracy theories and propaganda and i think i could have been smarter than that. the truth was i was. i did not question the propaganda i was fed but ultimately i chose to swallow it and eventually i let it become a part of me because i wanted to belong so badly with the search of identity and community and purpose. so two years after i was

recruited as 16 years old the man who recruited me went to prison for a series of vicious and happiness hate crimes the final was going to the apartment of another skinhead girl who was seen standing at a bus stop with a black man. they went to her apartment, the whole group and a pistol whipped her until she was hidden 1 inch of her life and in the pages swastika of her blood of the wall they thought she was dead there were sentenced to prison but of but before we that propelled me into a position of leadership. i learned how to recruit, i was fully immersed in to the rhetoric and ideology, is bringing in kids younger

than me often it was the bully is so now because there was a full weight of leadership everybody recruited after me now looked to me as what to do and two years prior this power this kid who had no idea how to lead or even have a relationship real-life because i was shy was suddenly propelled into a leadership position of the first neo-nazi skinhead gain because by this time groups started to pop up all over the country and one thing a realized that music was a powerful recruitment tool also a good vehicle for propaganda source started in 19901 of the first white power skinhead bands so i

would use propaganda to teach people to hate and to be proud of something that was manufactured because we said diversity was contributing to the white genocide the more we allowed diversity to take place that white people would bear the brunt so now of course, i look back and think how ridiculous that was sounding better resonated so to use the fear rhetoric to make them afraid that puts them into action. so this picture from 1991 at a concert in germany and that is me on stage with 4,000 skinheads all over europe.

i sing these lyrics that encourage people to commit acts of violence and hurt other people based on the color of their skin. this was the first experience where i recognized the consequences of my words because after this concert these 4,000 skinheads went out to this beautiful easter firm in town -- east for germantown and basically destroyed the town they walked into shops and booted a and stole beer from the pubs and beat up the townspeople who were german. that did not compute i did not understand why we could say one thing and do another then i started to realize the consequences my words

would have but i started to question the ideology and if that was something i was really in tune with because i always had questions in the back of my mind when i heard things that didn't make sense i would not question them but i would have an internal struggle if i was capable of the things that i was telling people to do but i know now over those eight years i hated other people because i hated myself and i hated my situation so much i was willing to project my own pain on to other people so i didn't have to deal with it myself. when i came back in 1991 from my trip in germany

things changed again for me. and that a girl, fell in love and a 19 years old we were married with our first child. when i held my child for the first time it was a bit of magic and i suddenly reconnected with that innocent 14 year-old who was lost and regained my innocence i started to catch a glimpse of what it meant. and started to shift my priorities my identity, a community, a sense of purpose was no longer as a skinhead whereas the leader but as a father and husband and all i wanted to do was support for family and provide for them so i began to question very aggressively the ideology that i passed along to

hundreds or tens of thousands of other people through meetings and my music but that is not what i wanted for my own family i never ask my wife was not a part of the movement to become involved in never wanted my child to be a part of the movement so i started to question what i was doing . but i got a little confused again and said he to support my family there isn't much else i know but musec so i decided to open a record store in the purpose for me was to stay apart of the movement because it was so difficult to leave despite abandoning that ideology day-by-day it was difficult to leave the community and

identity because i had a feeling i had never experienced. so i opened the store to sell white power of music that is all i knew how to do. before the internet very quickly it was 75% of gross revenue people were driving from york and california to buy the music. but trying to be a good business person being greedy or selfish i decided i wouldn't just sell white power of music but other music / woodstock hip-hop and heavy-metal so the customers that came to buy the other music even though they knew who i was showed me compassion and in fact, they showed me compassion

when i least deserved from. to first i was very standoffish show is happy to except their money if they had a conversation it was short and i did not want to engage but they kept coming back and every time the conversations were little more personal so one day when a black teenager caveman he was upset he said his mother was diagnosed with cancer suddenly i could connect with him and understand how he felt because my grandmother was diagnosed with cancer just before that when i saw the gay couple loving and holding their son that was the same love that i felt for my own son. sova conversations got to be more personal and started to realize we have more similarities than differences and what we had

was superficial we all have the need for love and acceptance and success to support our families. those are the fundamental need to be all shared by all these differences i have magnified to separate us from them were superficial and inconsequential it didn't matter in the grand scheme of things. we were human beings and shared these experiences and i am thankful because that is the first time i allowed myself because before that they were monsters server pager cockroaches i kept as much demonization out of it as possible because that is what the movement was about

about, blaming somebody else for the problems that existed rather than reflecting internally if you were the contribution to the problem or bleeding that invisible person for everything going wrong in your life without actually knowing those people in one i begin to meet them i started to realize there was nothing to hate. it did not match what was in my head. now i lost my ego and fear and i was emotionally connected that everything crashed. highlife fell apart. would have left the movement close the store and because there's so much revenue it could not sustain the store i've lost my livelihood also my family and my community a bill to over eight years. my wife and children left me

because i did not pay enough attention i did not have a great relationship with my parents even though they tried so i lost everything per car renter period of five years 1999 were almost every morning i woke up and contemplated taking wildlife because i did not understand exactly what i was not feeling better because they treated others with respect and showing compassion but still dying inside. then a friend of mine said you have to change something . i don't want you to die. i said what you suggest? there is a job that a company called the ibm and to be to apply.

i said i have full tattoos i got kicked out of all high-school is an average college in there is no way they would hire me. she said just try. it is the entry level position. i will vouch for you. so i wrote my first trip resonate and i lied. and i got the job. the end of the first day i am has millions of customers but on my first day where did they put me? my old high school to install computers for the school district and i was terrified. now a grown man and like my first day of school i did not know how to change my parents because they knew

the minute i would walk-in they would say get out. of course, with in the first five minutes i see the old black security guard that i got in a fist fight with that got me kicked out. call that's fate your destiny or karma but i was so scared and i had never been so scared in my life. i was shaking i did not know what to do but i would chase him to of the party and i am probably not the best move. [laughter] but when i found him getting into his car i tapped him on the shoulder and when he recognized me he took a step back in fear. and i knew i had to do something i could only think to say i'm sorry. he stuck out his hand and i shook it and we embraced.

pretty possible be cried. and he made the promise of a tel my story to other people but because you recognize what i had gone through and that same struggle was not unique to me but what every young vulnerable person goes through and those lessons that i learned could be less than some other people could learn a and maybe he had intuition about way other people may join isis because there are parallel reasons why people join gangs or groups of hate or travel to syria to fight for a cause they don't understand. or that does not make a lot of sense.

the parallels we are searching for identity and a sense of purpose with a lot of disenfranchised and marginalized young people and older people in this world a lot of people searching for answers. lot of confusion and it is very easy for a recruiter to play something in your view that tries to solve those problems for you by blaming somebody else. so i decided because it was so hard for me i would write a book and take this man's advice and tell my story to be 10 years but i finally did it and it really is a cautionary tale for young people who were searching for something.

in 2010 co-founded an organization called life after hate with the purpose to help people go through that transition with they are scared to leave these movements because of the it kennedy and community and the purpose they may not have. and we help them transition out of fact not by battling the ideological or arguing warda beating because that just polarizes them further just with our political climate that we listen for the pot holes.

so if we think of the far right to or hate groups we think of skinheads alien to militia and kkk and they still exists but not what they used to be. this movement has gone from boots to suits purpose is no surprise 30 years ago we had a concept called leaderless resistance where the bull was we recognize reverse carrying away the swastika and the shaved head we would not do that but it grow out the hair and not get a tattoo but go to university and get jobs of law-enforcement and run for office. here we are 30 years later in even i was skeptical about 30 years ago we're starting to see that happening the metastasizing

of that cancer. they are smart, they'll learn how to massage the message but the ideology is the same based on fear. so because of the internet and it is a place to or marginalized can find their community in building an identity if they do have one in real-life because of the platform that used to look like this, now looks like this. to your daughters or grandkids or neighbors if they're not giving a salute you probably were not know that they were involved with their getting younger and younger.

if we looked at this to say should be worried about these young kids? yes. because the product of this internet radicalization is the result of somebody who walks into a church inverters nine people based on the color of their skin. or alexander who walks into a mosque to kill people. or james jackson who came here to york in march murdering an african-american with this war because he was trying to discourage people from interracial relationships. these are all products of the internet propaganda and the game has changed. and i was recruited you got a book and invited to a meeting and hung out to was very social. now it is very virtual.

and the scary thing that is where the marginalized young people hang out there looking for answers by people with very selfish mission. so we decided to do is to look, line as well so we launched a program called exit usa to help people disengage from hate groups and what i said earlier the we don't do that to battle ideologically with them but by listening. we get contacted from three different types of people, the person to engaged who once helped to get out, by bystanders like good parents or friends or co-workers were girlfriends

and former people who work engaged got their way out but thought they were the only person on earth to do that. and haven't been able to talk about their experience or heal fully to be productive so instead of arguing with them in you just want to shake them i don't do that so be billed resilience we introduced them to mental health professionals, job training training, education or tattoo removal and give them a support network just like them to talk to perk we have a private network of online that has 100 formers that on some days will say poster

latest joke but other days for the first time they will admit they were sexually abused. or their son committed suicide because we've understand each other. we help each other through this thing called life and have been very successful with that since we launched in 2015 tony is our board chair and was a new york at the same time also with former it is good to have him here but we tell people this engaged people going on to get there ph.d. is who were teachers for the first time because they can talk about this can work through some of those issues that have broken them over many

years and you're very proud of that. so this young girl 17 years old parents contacted us because they were concerned she was watching propaganda of the videos on a new tube also to eating a diet from idaho and was her virtual boyfriend. after speaking to the parents i did my homework and i realized he was not 23 from idaho he was a man in moscow. not only this girl but 12 other girls at the same time he would become the virtual boy friend they would never

see him he would send videos or skip the audio tracks and convince them to send compromising photos and videos of they decided they didn't or wanted to leave he would blackmail them. it is happening quite a bit also one-man from buffalo a wounded that who was the islamophobia. and he said i have some questions i've loved to talk to you and talked for several weeks it was clear he did not like muslims but i was walking my dog in the park i saw a muslim man praying it took everything

it in me not to kick him in the face. i said i am coming now and i flew out the next day and we talked. one of the first questions i asked was have you ever get to a muslim? he said now why would i want to do that? they are evil. i hate them. they are the double. so i excuse myself i got my phone we went to the local mosque and i said i have a gentleman here who was christian who would love to learn more about your religion can we stop by? he said of course, . [laughter] but rarely have 50 minutes because there preparing for prayer services. we're on our way. halfway there i said we have to stop somewhere in when i

told him he wanted to stop in turnaround and rollout plan for the go-ahead. it is a rental car i flew here least you can try. of course, the imam in hansard he said we can talk very briefly three hours later after saudi and crying and realizing all of the similarities that we had, we left. i am happy to say after all lot of work with joe and and the imam are very good friends and called for falafel every friday. we are so afraid of what we think we don't understand we want to push away in so far that it turns into violence.

we have to realities in this world we have to do a better job of letting go of that irrational behavior and unconscious bias end our ego to be vulnerable to build those bridges to the people that we claim that we hate because most people part of these movements never had a meaningful interaction with the people they claimed to hate. i didn't and when you ask why did you join them? because you have to give up everything else that is important in your life but they hope to be that new family that new support network after remake people

more resilient it is amazing so the hate falls away because now they are more resilient, self-sufficient and self confidence to have the tools and the trading in there is no reason to blame somebody else were be afraid of the other if you pair that with the holocaust survivor to the imam that is the connection that we need for all across the world there are people like me, former's to of dedicated their lives to help dismantle to what they once built and tearing down those bridges and i'm happy to tell you about this story is an honor to be here and a pleasure in this wonderful museum that tells a great story thanks for listening

to my story i just want to give you one challenge hopefully every day find somebody you think does not deserve her compassion and give it to them because chances are they needed the most. [applause] so now i think we will talk for a little bit?. >> christian, thank you. >> think you'll. >> it is very hard pressed to really understand the journey that you have taken. that the same time it is

difficult for you to explain it to us because every time you tell it you live it began. and experience it again but it is for a purpose. so with great admiration and respect for the courage, i am a little bit confused. what is the problem? is it ignorance? ideology? dysfunction? and if we as a society need to address it, where do we start? your last sentence sort of answer my question. but it is it as simple as be

leaving? that anybody who is in your situation or all susceptible to be bigots that audience is a huge. huge. or is that ignorance? and also there. my god over i spent a lifetime dealing with decisions i am not sure listening to you now maybe we targeted the wrong king to educate and love and

sensitize but the with the ideologues to expose them to put a consequence or a price of their bigotry but now listening to you, christian you, christian, the efforts should be as potential victims of where it reset priorities?. >> think you for that. is very hard to give a black-and-white answer but i will do my best. so when we fear we don't understand we never have the opportunity to connect that turns into hate but that is a lack of opportunity and i'm not playing identity

politics but a lack of opportunity with the inner-city sorrell america. and i can tell you standing in that alley of 14 years old and said would you like to play guitar or play baseball? i would have done that in a heartbeat people were a angrier than me. so i could be a vehicle. ltd. is the vehicle with a sense of purpose or the search for a purpose and identity and community that drives people with the grievances and the trauma or

whatever they experience and the catalyst. i found the injuries people like to find -- the angriest people. so how do we solve racism? but we have the ability to affect the people closest to us and to with empathy to put yourself in their shoes and that is a wider saying and to find common ground and from complete opposites

is where we need to be. we all need to be loved and have money to survive so if we could start their maybe we could build those bridges >> somebody did this experiment taking a bigoted person to put them in a container and the photograph of their family the regardless of where they came from the only thing that was left that they had in common was to reduce that level of animosity.

but on that premise what you're talking about is compassion what said to all of us do you want to begin to fight? so we're talking about is people to people so we now live in the world but if you don't talk to people how to exercise compassion? so what we have seen in our lifetime we're on our way to destroy civility and had to

fight this miracle with consequences undermining those values you cannot talk to each other. it is a substitute to engage where you were talking about. >> maybe they are unfortunate enough to do this but they do come in contact we spend time on line but also we interact with people at work or the girl she store with that lack of connection.

>> i plan to go back to my hotel room and i will pass a thousand people and i am fortunate enough. >> you may never get to your hotel. [laughter] i have a more delicate question with those skinheads or swastika or the people of the suits so with this frustration and baker and alienation we just experiencing an election in which pushed all of these buttons is this democracy in danger?. >> i believe so. i believe that our understanding of democracy is shifting and changing

because of what happens that nobody in their lifetime has ever seen. >> it is very fragile. weirdies compared to the world. >> we have never done a right. never. so to say we stand for what we were founded on part of that was slavery but they do believe in american ideals and then go to make the set.

if you go to america you will be american. that is the democratic ideals. >>. >> you never admitted that. >> the to have the conversation earlier with a great analogy. >>. >> he is not a big hit or racist or anti-semite. >> so that smoldering fire that always existed on election day and that ignited all of them. >> and not protected civil

society but in your heart for it your head but you'll pay a price. we were in retried to explain to people to a certain understanding of political correctness but that we through laws and education and sensitivity in

this last election and now to put the cover back. >> i want to invite them now and have coffee and listen and understand why they're living in the sewers because there is reason. >> i could never speak for the person in rural america. because they have to feed their family and it is the ideal situation but we need to listen. >> and dashes anybody

walking down that his threat and so we have to except to have the far left in the far right eventually they will need to become the same thing. in the last thing we want to do but that is the last thing we want to do. >> that will not help us to say your thoughts are ugly had refined way to connect without the being or pushing the idea is so how can we

sit down to humanize each other? it looks like humanization happens there is already a connection and rebuild from that. >> and then to support that and embrace that an to except that concept but with your experience has that changed your appreciation in or perception or value of freedom of speech? it

caused violence and death and u.s. engaged. does society need to protect itself?. >> i believe in freedom of speech but i also believe it is not free of consequences so while you may have the right to say whatever you want, if what you say or do a fax somebody else negatively you must be held accountable for that. >> the floor is yours. >> please wait for the microphone. >> how did the other people react that were skinheads

when you left? did they question you? and later they cable long to connect with them and pull the amount otherwise i could not be lower of a trader or a turncoat and it still continues even 22 years later i received death threats. but i can tell you there was 1.in my life very blindly willing to give my life for something i did not understand or know anything about. so i know i am doing something right.

now i'm still pulling up the weeds that are sprouting. i am also a little bit of a gardener. i could be hit by a of bus but i know i am living my passion. this is what i meant to do because i am one of the few people in the world that has this to the college to put myself in to a uncomfortable situation. >>. >> read your book it was

fascinating and infuriating. i groped in georgia. recall that of battle days. with those nazi gains it did this year in new york they attack people in the bars and i appreciate that is important but how should people intervene? in some ways you're waiting for people to spend now.

>> and retroactively at the bystanders those that don't want to have those movements but that is part of my answer something that completely has come up to the top if it is just as dangerous if not dangerous and with that historic nationals adweek need to speak up and do telluride 80

years old if you told me i was wrong or if you would have punched me in the face then i would have come back with a gun. it was not have changed who i was. . .

what level of compassion would work there? yes maam. >> i think that would work for isis supporters are people who are becoming radicalized but this really is a battle for good and evil not in a religious sense but the truth is 99% of us us --. >> also in a religious sense. >> 99% of us live in the middle there. they are definitely evil people

in this world. there definitely very very good people. most of us, we go back and forth depending on the day depending on the situation and depending on the mood. what we need to do is know the people can change and they can come over to the good side. >> the lady in the blue jacket. >> how are your kids doing and what happened to them and do you have any interest going into politics? >> oh boy. my little boys are now 24 and 22 and they are amazing human beings who i have a wonderful relationship with as well as my parents. my mother does call me too much but she hasn't figured out how to text message at. she called me literally a half-hour before i was going to

sit here and she said what are you doing? i said not now, mom. i have a wonderful relationship with my family. once i was able to forgive myself eventually i became a better father, a better husband, better friend, better employee and a better human being and i'm not going to rule out chicago mayor. you never know. >> how was the reaction, that was my question. >> it to my parents about a year to figure out when i was involved and they said i was just doing kids stuff. i was hiding it a lot the first year. what -- once they figured out they were terrified. they were concerned about my safety. they didn't understand and there was one point where my mom bless her heart said why do you like

him? go for somebody italian like al capone at leased or somebody like that. [laughter] she would have tried anything possible to get me away from what i was involved and i have to tell you thanks to my parents i am here today because they never gave up on me and it's the white house calling. >> now this white house. >> i'm very grateful for the fact that my parents didn't give up on me. they never gave up even when i wanted nothing to do with them. why can't you understand what i'm trying to say to you? i really thought i was saving the world. if they wouldn't have given up on me i don't know if i would be here now. >> how do you propose as a nation we get rid of the hate

because somebody like trump who encourages it and thinks that it's okay to punch a person in the face and how does that make it right? how can we change that because that's huge when we have a president that is such an idiot that he can't take your out -- when he is in israel so what do you do it that? >> you are way off the subject but okay. >> we vote. we didn't mobilize enough. let's talk outside of the hallway because we could talk for hours on a subject but i think we need to understand we live in a broken society. we have a lot of things to fix and the things we kept in the sewer and put the lid on the need to recognize that they exist and not keep them in the sewer because they are in the sewer they will grow, they will fester and they will eventually come out of the sewer and start to infect other people.

so we need to not be afraid to deal with the awkward and very tough conversations. this potentially could be a very big reset for us to realize that this still exists. believe it or not people thought we were living in a post-racial society. i think you can ask the people of color in this room if that existed and they would tell you no. we have never lived in the post-racial society and that's the truth. >> christian, i'm just thinking it sounds so wonderful. take them out of the sewers and embrace them. if you have embraced, gotten up one morning, had this revelation, came into your group of followers and embrace them they would have punched you. they could have even killed view. because they would have

suspected something horrific etc. etc. which they couldn't deal with. so i think we should all -- it's one thing to reach out to the bus driver. it's quite another, we are talking about people who are bigger by profession. they may have gone through what you went through so to spend time going into the sewers, i would rather we spend time changing our society which removes bullying, which removes unemployment, which teaches respect because if we -- everything on top of the sewers, the sewers even if they come out will have nobody to recruit. >> what we do with life after hate is very much like dr. --

treated polio. we treat those who are sick with innovation that we also know to keep people from being sick we have to inoculate the population from that disease. what you are talking about is prevention. i absolutely wholeheartedly believe in that but if we don't start to bring -- i think if we don't bring opportunity to the people who need it the most we will continue to have this problem because really going down to those depths where i was, was not an ideological thing. it was how can i heard other people more than i feel hurt myself so i think we do have to deal with trauma. tony taught me this, the toxic shame that people have and put them at a young age to be more inclusive, to be more understanding, to be more

accepting of diversity and a just other people in general. i was in montana couple of weeks ago. i was in whitefish montana who had a terrible situation there. i didn't see one person of color the whole time i was in the state. i was there for six days and i said who do you guys hate here? oh native americans. they are number one because that's what they have. there's always somebody to hate. we are marginalized and we are disconnected from each other it doesn't matter who the other person is black white brown green purple. there is always somebody to hate but i know that we can get past that because as unfortunate and terrible as 9/11 was the one day that i saw america unified than it did matter who you were aware you came from was september 12 and that gave me hope for just a minute.

i know we can get back there. >> we have to here and one in the balcony. >> thanks for your story. it's fascinating in her messages well. my question is based upon your experience in the examples that you brought up it seems like your organization, your efforts are grounded more toward white supremacists. is there any outreach? is there anything you guys are doing four for to name an example muslim extremists and percentagewise how much of your efforts have been changed up to that point? >> that's a good question. i tend to like to use the word isis inspired terrorist because i certainly don't reflect any muslim ideals.

we focus on the far right because that's our background however i also know that what we do transfers over to gangs, transfers over to isis inspired extremists or jihadists and the left-wing extremists as well. we do have a very large network of former jihadists that we work with but i personally have also worked with people. when i was in belgium, it's really interesting when i was in belgium a few months ago a man had reached out to one of the municipalities where i was speaking and he was a returned foreign fighter that came back from syria. he had done his prison time and now was trying to re-enter great. he was having a really hard time doing that. he had nobody to talk to. he couldn't talk to the people in his community because some of those people thought he was a traitor.

he couldn't talk to the community because some of them don't want to associate with them because if they were seen talking to him, they might think i'm a terrorist. he really had a network. i was going to speak there and he reached out and he said i really would love to see to this man. we met in brussels and we walked around and we spent three hours which is the magic number for some reason. we spent three hours together and our stories were so strikingly parochial -- parallel it was mind-blowing. both of our parents were were immigrants and they both settled in areas where people were really friendly. his brother had been killed in syria. my brother was murdered after the movement and we struggled with that identity and that community and that sense of purpose because we both believe what we were doing at the time was the righteous thing to do and that we were saving the world and we couldn't understand for the life of us white people couldn't understand that.

i do think that some day in our future when we have the ability to scale in that direction we would like to offer our services or at least partner with organizations that can offer those culturally specific services. i do believe fundamentally opportunity and positive avenues toward identity. >> thank you. the most important question for me to know is did pontiac really make a firebird in 1968? i'm just kidding. whatever time i have i really enjoy it and my friends and a lot of interesting and fun things to see. one day somebody posted something about the raw child. i had heard this name throughout my life and i still don't know anything about them but for that

one moment i decided, who are these people so i wrote the name in the search bar and it must have been some kind of algorithm because all these other sites came up they were very subtle and they didn't seem to have we hate you's. wasn't like this but there was just something about it that wasn't quite culture -- kosher. my question to you is what kind of, because you mentioned how subtle this movement is, what are some words that even somebody an experienced person like myself should look out for? >> now you are talking my language. first of all i want to touch on your topic of algorithms. think that's very important. what happens when you go on line

whether it social media there are algorithms that exist to act as a recommendation just like when you go to amazon and you buy pampers diapers it will say oh you should by huggies. when you start reading these propaganda stories it will keep recommending them because it thinks that's what you want to the danger is that it can go down into a silo and to a bubble into your own reality with very little crossover. this happens on both the left and the right. this is not exclusive. and it's so hard to distinguish what's real news and what's propaganda but his fake news and what is parody. there's so much information out there. we have lost our sense of critical thinking in many regards because we become so reliant on the powers that be.

now they talk about some of the dog whistles that they use are some of the subtle branding of things that they use when they are really talking about, when i hear it i think i know exactly what they are talking about. in terms of globalization and globalists these days who really describe international bankers and the jewish controlled finances. that's really what they are talking about. they have become very good at massaging their message so they are not saying you know control media and they are calling it liberal media. there were accusations that in the last in donald trump add that he ran on election day the star of david was used next to a picture of hillary clinton and when the voiceover was pocketing about voiceover there is a picture of george soros is

picture of prominent jewish people. when i saw that video the first thing i thought was wow this is a white power video. i would have made this 30 years ago and i could have written the speech is that he is saying. what they have gotten good at doing is they have massage the message. they have toned it down so it's palatable to the average person. if you go to average american races in the south and say take the swastika flag and put on your wall there like wow that's anti-american but you used the confederate flag or something else oh yeah i hate black people i will hang that on my wall so they have gotten very good at marketing their packaging. they still have the same haircuts in the same suits. it's just a progression that is metastasized into something

that's more palatable for the average american who have a legitimate grievance about something in their life and is willing to blame somebody else and put aside the misogynistic comments were the racist comments or the anti-immigrant comments because i have to see my family in this town of 42 people. it's not right but that's the reality. >> at the same time you don't have to be so sophisticated, you don't have to look for euphemisms. euphemisms log onto holocaust and algorithms will give you -- i don't know how you understand algorithms as part of the science of technology which continues the weights and measures pro and con on every issue and so the bigots on

whatever issues upgrade 24/7 and so the mechanismmeasure negative pros and cons and so if the traffic out there by the bigots is such that when you -- you will get anti-first and then you will get pro because that's the way the messages are floating in the clouds system. holocaust you'll get holocaust denial. the 24/7 he gets operating in those networks, that is what they are reading. in my days at the adl we went to palo alto. we went to see the geniuses and we said to them thank you for all these wonderful things that you have given us but there are

unintended consequences of your changes and the unintended consequences is that you now give a preeminent to the negatives. their answer was algorithms and with all due respect there are antidotes to algorithms and we see it now. when an issue arises of the algorithmic charts which hurts the commercial value of that server whether they are a gal who worked google or whatever, all of a sudden they have a weight to deal with the algorithm. so when other thing is be alert, be aware, respond because i can tell you the last thing on this. one of the meetings that we went to to complain about when you've log onto you get anti-they said well you know tell the jewish

community to go on the internet and say nice things about the. we have nothing else to do but three times a day go on there but by the way there was a campaign and within a month we did change it but that's not our job. to protect so it is a very serious problem. it's not only sophisticated but a cruel matter as well. >> is fighting a losing battle because they are using tech knowledge he fake accounts artificial intelligence to place conspiracy theorists like them. let's wage a rational battle. >> last question. >> i'm so glad i'm the last. i'm going to try to be unemotional but i'm searing here as jewish heritage a living memorial to the holocaust.

my mother was in auschwitz. she's going to be 90 years old next month. my father is 96 also a holocaust survivor. i'm here for the first time to visit thismuseum because i like the topic and i'm shocked. i am so shocked at the sight that firstly christian i love you come compassion of survivors. i am named after words after my grandmother who is exterminated. most of, all of my mother's brothers and sisters were also disseminated. my father out of 12 children, six survived. so i come israili.

>> i hope you are going to end with a question. >> i am. i'm going to ask the following. how can you with the events right now going on, whatever you think of mr. trump or president trump, thank you for your compassion christian because i want to bring compassion to this room by the to the left or to the right. he is an insane man who believes that he can make a difference in a positive way. my parents brought me here to america. >> your question is? >> my question is how can you sit here and not recognize the fact that right now america's leadership in the world is meeting with the three different major religions and their attitude and tanking is how can

we bring peace to the world? how can we fights the evil in the world and we are sitting here in the holocaust museum making fun of a man who is on a mission and the mission is the best mission that can keep us in the world. >> respectfully. >> i'm not here to be political. christian, you are right. compassion and education of humans is what humans can do so thank you for coming. i'd love for you to sign my book. >> i hope you read this book. thank you. they last thing respectfully i need is a holocaust survivor is a lecture from someone else to tell me how i should act, believe, stand in terms of our

tradition. you have of you and i respect it. it doesn't have to necessarily be our views and again respectfully it is really out of place. your comments are out of place. this is not a discussion or conversation. whether we like the president or whether we agree with his politics, come to another lecture where it is. this deals with christians experience as a lesson for us to better understand the forces of hatred, bigotry and prejudice that reside in our society. our environment is part of it. our election system and what happened is part of it but what you are talking about with all do respect has very little to do with what we are about. come to another lecture but that's the subject. thank you. >> let me conclude. christian thank you.

>> feel free to come up afterwards and i'm happy to answer anybody's questions. >> i also see tony's hand up. we have to break it. christian the words thank you are so bunnell, for us to say to you that for you to have the strength, the courage, the fortitude. it's not the first time and when i used to speak or speak about my holocaust experiences it was very difficult. it was very difficult because you bare your soul, you bare your experience so just to say thank you isn't enough.

we value, we appreciate. we know it is painful and it's baring your soul, a moment of despair and ugliness in your life for a greater purpose. for the greater purpose is to inspire us, to inspire us and everything we have heard argued your request some of the very things are difficult. had the change society? how do you change people? one step at a time, one person at a time. so all that you have gone through, what do you want us to do? do you want us to be nice to somebody we don't know? you know what it's so little and yet it's the whole world. so god bless you. continue the message. come back and be strong. [applause] >> thank you.

>> thank you so much. i believe they are selling books in the library. i would love in sit and talk to all of you. we could meet over there would be great and i look forward to speaking with you. thank you so much. i appreciate it. thank you. >> thank you. [inaudible conversations]

>> that comes to gradually end and other people i knew who they thought should get more credit than they get. this is in uruguay indian chief and he understood the principle of federalism because he lived for centuries before where were our own country. i was intrigued that from the outset. it's not a name that most americans know anything about and yet had a profound impact on our system of government because here's a guy who enabled benjamin franklin to learn about federalism and benjamin franklin was the conduit for which this information flow to the rest of the federalists. it was a more perfect way into the constitution.

>> i just finished up double in the grove which is a book by a guy named gilbert king. it's all about the life of thurgood marshall before he was anyone's judge but litigating cases in the south at tremendous risk to himself but basically fighting for justice. >> there is a book i want to read, it's bringing out the best in people and i think every once in a while to get a new perspective on how you lead a team, i always say you lead people and you manage assets. >> harry reid had recommended it and i'm wrapping up a terrific novel called all the light we cannot see. i'm moving into the narrow road to the deep north which is another novel and the sixth