the music . >> i am the director here at the commonwealth club welcome to today's conversation the author of the of book wild ride in the executive editor of fortune. if you have not noticed it has not been quietly lisa lehr especially excited he is speaking tonight with the executive editor of the podcast who has been hot on the trail since the

beginning. take 30 seconds to introduce yourself to one of her neighbors. [inaudible conversations] that is the perfect amount of friendship other wise it is dangerous. [laughter] if you enjoyed me the your new friend if you come out of the building just go to the left field free to join this thereafter words anybody not here before? if you don't know much about as we do a host programs like this dozens of times a year.

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the generosity there are boxes downstairs. >> so questions are 10 or 15 words long in their not a personal story. so copies of the book will be for sale with your ticket and will sign books after the program you also live tweet and stream so they can catch us on facebook turn your wringers off we do hate that but we do want you to be on social media the handles are here. so i am pleased to welcome our guests to the stage. [applause]

>> did you like me being everybody? they did that to me and i was best -- best off. [laughter] i am glad that you made some friends for a are you ready? >> she just posted a photo of me on twitter she should have called that before. >> we have a lot to talk about then we will move:to a company in the news. welcome to tonight's program and the executive better and host of the of podcast debt it is my pleasure to be speaking with a veteran journalist and executive

editor of fortune of best-selling author of inside apple and now here to talk by his latest book wild ride. hello. >> excuse me for interrupting. ceramic that is interesting when we talk about guber -- so getting into the book itself so as to include all the history of people care what is happening now so yesterday was a super busy day down to the wire and in the course of the day then anybody else will of god and the ceo fired by the end of

headache a board member had resigned because it was about the sexual harassment and they told that joke on stage to another director so it was a busy day. and it was a woman. so talk to me about what you think happened yesterday one day later. >> a couple of interesting things. as you pointed out the released eric holder's recommendation but not his findings that would have been far more interesting. >> but the details of what he found so now you have to and for everything from the recommendation you can and for all what but that is

where you come in but. >> i prefer to think of it as exposing ridiculous behavior of white men in silicon valley the moving on. >> as i said. you made the point any other recommendations would've included the firing of the seal but the precise wording to the travis kalanick emails said he is taking a leave of absence of undetermined length. it could be monday over 2019. and to be continued to be involved with the most strategic decisions. i read an ad as he is now leaving for stepping down and all. so it is not over. >> so many giveback to be a

dia i've had parts of that reading to me avifauna breakneck speed and all kinds of things as the quintessence of silicon valley concentrates itself with one company so you think he is still in power?. >> i don't know how much but even what we saw yesterday there's clear evidence he is . i cannot quantify or qualify the set i will be involved in the most teachers decisions. how could he have known? i think we have known for quite a while that he has

the ability to control of board through his shares than he had to acquiesce whatever they decided i think if he had his druthers he would not have gone at all. that is where he was six weeks ago. >> gore in tow line 30 that morning. >> things changed and he acquiesced that but not leaving. >> so explain why that is with the board structure that he and his friend and his close colleague d'etre founder of uber. >> why is he sticking so close?. >> people ask why wasn't garrett camp the ceo or turn over the reins so willingly and so rarely? but my answer has been there are

many controversial things that happened that was a one of those nobody ever said that program many people have said that garrett camp was grateful from the beginning that travis kalanick took this when he created he created many little things to make it into lou uber sorry the key was comfortable with that and grateful really the first person to take serious money out of the company and was grateful to ruth travis for that. idle think it is any more complicated and now. >> cater imagine if the company would go public with that ceo?. >> even before this week for

that last month they didn't think there would go public anytime soon but a lot can change. >> is like dog years in silicon valley time. >> but not to be leader of a financial company. >> i am understand. we can discuss the morality but we know silicon valley venture capitalist will tolerate almost anything if they can make their back. and there is evidence it is also with the public shareholders. there has been instances of ceos dropped out for one transgression or another. i am not saying that they don't care or it is a slam dunk. but that would not shock me. >> it'll take their our

morals but the issues around a the criminal indictments that's uber ultimately fired anthony amid criminal problems. that is what i am more interested in. >> those are the existential threats so forgive me for mentioning the book but answering your question which is the final chapter is where travis kalanick and i take a walk through a sort -- san francisco down almost to the golden gate bridge. >> is that like internet executives to take walks?.

>> i would rather be sitting at a table taking notes but i am walking me down the street holding my recorder in my hand hoping that i am getting it. we are on the walk i do remember where i was going with this but during that conversation there is one other person to take this walk with frequently and this was anthony but he cannot tell me about it. so why publish that now other people have published they have walked. but the judge has specifically said he allows wamo to interview anybody that had any interaction with anthony on the subject of the acquisition which

means the content and the context of a conversation while they had their romantic walk. so it is quite serious because wamo is six -- saying theft. it is there renamed itself driving carbide google now it is part of the alphabet but wamo sues uber be consistent says anthony was the in junior and then they started a new company and they allege this was uber way to steal the technology but what has not happened

yet but then the next step is that it is a fraudulent behavior not just trade secrets. >> but they also sued uber. >> that was to knock them out of the box. . . and i said you don't usually sue people and i said that you are

suing uber and she said that's different. i think they are intent on taking this down to the wire. all this does matter in terms of what's going to happen to this company. they are in much more serious trouble than most people knew. when you started the book it was like look at this bareknuckled startup that's changing the world and its pugnacious in your face ceo such a character kind of thing. tell us what you are thinking. >> guest: when i started thinking about it was 2014 and what i was witnessing was this company being 34-years-old have already expanded around the world very quickly because they've done it in their second year of operation.

"thuber can be everywhere five r ten years earlier and they've raised already billions of dollars into a multibillion-dollar evaluation and they had a profound impact on the systems in many places, so i thought and i think it was and is an important story and if you believe that this revolution was serious, i was far more interested in what the app enabled them phrases like the economy, and i believe that it was the best example of what this could power

>> if it helps them raise money if well. they had come out of this next year of silicon valley with messy things of regulators and drivers and cars and transportation networks anyway google and facebook and yahoo! warrant. the next stage of these kind of

companies that we cover if you put them in buckets or phases of evolution from the companies that existed around microsoft and intel and companies that existed around google and facebook and twitter this was the next thing and i thought that was interesting. >> what do you think made them stand out? a lot of it has to do with the early years which were not great and presided over by startups one completely failed and it was a very difficult relationship for almost every investor he h had. a lot of this stuff was to be

motivated by rage in his heart and other different entrepreneurs and older. >> i don't think necessarily -- i don't know if the rage accounted for the success with "thuber it would have been a moe controversial statements. as i talk about in the book he's a stubborn ruthless person so both things became important but the parthat the part of the stot i think is interesting he was part of the founding team that went completely belly up but was unsuccessful so it started and field more quickly.

and the next company was an iteration of death to be a legitimate they sold to corporations and it took forever to get going and went down to one person and ultimately he sold it for what nobody in the valley would consider a lot of money. the point i was driving to is that happened in 2008. i've been here since 1997 and i tend to know the people that are modestly successful. i met him in 2010 after uber was starting to go up and by the time it came around, he was a player in that world and we could quickly named 20 people or more that are more important. so there is a lot of luck involved. when he decided i love all these

references that simply isn't the case. he kind of made it. >> not to take away from him, but the idea was important. he was around when he started operations, so he was the founder. he spent time with his parents including his mom. they sold newspaper ads and went to their house, it was a very modest house above los angeles in our fridge.

i would love to tell you that i found it and i absolutely set out to find it. what was motivating him. he tells me a story in the book about when he was an indian guide. they are no longer called indian guide is a program run by the ymca to spend more time with their dads and about ten years before travis, he tells me this story about a fund-raising drive for a campus trip where they sold takes in front of the supermarket for tickets to the event in front of the supermarket and he was bound and determined at age ten to sell

the most freaking pancakes than any other. if he was being beaten in the basement by his lovely mother or his hard-working father, i don't know. not many in the internet space he talked a lot about being bullied. >> he was also an athlete and a good runner, good baseball player. so you know, he sort of played both of those positions.

he tells about having been bullied for being a nerd. a badge of honor in silicon valley. but i never got the sense from him telling the stories that there were deep emotional scars. my impression the reason i talk about his personality, because needy keys just in asshole which is an explanation for a lot of people in silicon valley. where did you come to the conclusion, what was it lacks.

the. they have abundantly better ways of doing that. they wanted to ride around town. i had used it to send our babysitter home because i thought that it was a brave move

by didn't have to take him and i could watch the progress and make sure she got home. your business, not mine. they built this product that worked well. they were not doing that at the time. they had the idea to make it

into a way that we could power ordinary people with their cars and by the way, we can make the calling party look a lot like what "the communicators -- theyo quickly into the product because the app worke worked into the ay established all over the country and they had a lot of money. >> how do you strike the difference between the two. i don't know how even to describe them, he just came over one time to the ceo of twitter and said the reason i'm giving this is because 80% of the cars are not in use.

think about that. it's just wrong and i feel like i can save the world that way and he really meant it. he walked away and they turned to me and said they will kill him. [laughter] >> uber talks about the same exact statistic that they talkek about in terms of unused inventory. >> even their offices, you go in and get a foot massage and this pink everywhere, it's lovely when you go to uber and you think like the death star like i better not stand up because it will open up and like i think about that all the time and then the room, the the war room. >> when you get off the elevator of uber like you are a little scared because you're not which

way to turn or the floor will -- that's true. >> what is the difference between them, because the war room is a perfect example. for the first time i was like you've got to be kidding. they said we think it's great and i said i think you are 12-year-old boys. so what was the mentality of the difference between the two? >> the funny thing about the way that you introduced it as he isn't even the ceo, nobody knows -- >> also really nice. >> we all go with what we've got, and i think lyft, that is who they are, and of uber is who they are. >> is that the difference of uber, the obnoxious of pushing around regulators and the sort of ugly statements that he would make? you talked about that in the book quite a bit that he would toss off with a statement that was usually somewhere betwee ben

appalling and disgusting at any point. >> yes, i think that this is who travis is. it's not a corporate strategy. >> but has it made them successful, hasn't been the reason that they feel their way city after city. >> in my mind, it is hard to separate the bravado or the attitude from the actions because again, it's worth pointing out lyft was the first to do a damn the regulator strategy we don't think these taxi rules apply to us, and uber blank had a white paper that said we think that this is illegal and we are concerned about that. they had conversations with said okay i if may be a legal but we better do it quickly or we will be beaten by these guys. what you're talking about is we are not going to be a little sneaky about the regulatory issue, we are going to be

completely transparent and we are going to go in and start operating and when they come to us to say we think you are a legal, we are going to fight with them and get drivers and riders to be on our side and we forget in 2017 there was a moment that they were beloved. the headline saying how much people love their rides and so on. >> but sneaky seems to be their favorite move on lots of things. it goes back in history like one the sneaky move, what's the word they used? >> they do all kinds of sneaky things. >> i am a newbie expression of anonymous phones to call for rides and then cancel them or say you ought to be driving for

uber. i interviewed this guy who told me, and this was 20 years ago, they would have white board and he would write a $with big numbers and he said to me i go by and the number he just wrote a large number for people who would be walking by. it was the shifty. >> is that at the heart of the company? every two weeks you think it's sort of one thing after the ne next. >> one person shifting and another is pushing the envelope. >> it's not shifty, it is criminal. is that something you can use to a certain point but not fully. >> if you mean not profitable,

yes it brings a storm that ends up having real ratifications around the company. >> when you were doing the research, why continue because it doesn't really work. you get found out and now you sort of have a target on your back because people assume you're going to lie to them and be aggressive. do you think it is a good strategy and then we will get into what they think next but when you were doing the research for the book it seems like it is a never ending theme is that correct? >> it's not the only theme. they didn't project to me or i didn't have the daily feeling like this is a criminal enterprise.

some of the things i simply didn't know about. number one along the way i saw plenty of good. if i did think it were a criminal enterprise -- >> it's not like it's a dog eat family here but when they have a choice to do something a little sneaky or the right way it seems there is a shift. >> all i'm saying is there's probably a good book in the family, i'm sure there have be been. so i see my role as a journalist to write about the family and tell a story. maybe we can have a conversation about the notion of passing judgment. i think my style is to present

and analyze and tell it in an entertaining way. >> when you did though, you would come to conclusions. what conclusion did you come to, is this a sustainable -- is this what made it what it is because it isn't like any company we've ever covered i think we can both agree you would never think facebook behaves like this although they've done plenty of sneaky things. and i'm thinking of all the companies covered. the only close company i can think of is microsoft. and even he looks like a little kid and. >> i will answer you. i once had this conversation with mark, like i saw the lightning quick wit and intelligence when someone else was working above the startup feature story and i said we are just starting this feature story and i think we are just really concerned about some of these russian billionaires who are oligarchs involved in killing

people and being investors in facebook and without batting an eye he said i'm glad you're not writing the story. [laughter] and so, i don't think -- let me rephrase that. i think there's good people doing good work and good corporate work anywhere. i don't think that takes away from your question and the things you're talking about. i think it's possible to do what they are doing without being shifty. the example is lyft is doing it. separate conversation is this a real business and i think the answer is yes. i can't prove it. no one else can either. >> this week has shown its just rained down on people, they are sucked into the middle of this incredible behavior. i want to get to the financial parts of it, to act, how you think of the business going forward and all these businesses.

but talk a little bit about -- i told you i was going to ask this question. in the book, nowhere do we have any really small amounts of they are so tough and this and that, nowhere any of this stuff. same thing in the brownstone books. it didn't exist now. that is what matters but it's causing all the problems causes explosive post alleging sexism, sexual harassment, and it's just really corporate malfeasance. it's more so than anyone else, it's how they run a company like it is an episode of game of thrones, but it's a constant managers are untrained, no one was reporting things, no hr system in place. i think uber's place the whole time as we have been fast building and no ability to change to do this, which to me is i sort of didn't clean my bedroom excuse, what are you kidding me can't put in a normal system? i'm going to say why did you

miss this, because there was a sexual harassment problem going on, there was a party problem, there was a., you know, sort of careless behavior towards employees and drivers and its pervasive through the company and hard to miss. >> first of all, i have a whole section that was strengthened after the initial manuscript and it was strengthened by my two editors who are women. where i discuss the allegation that came after i turned in my manuscript and the subject more generally that's number one. and i addressed it. you can judge me on how i interested, i understand that.

secondly, to the extent because this is an important element of the story, shame on me that i didn't get it adequately and you also mentioned the bucs -- he wrote this exposé and nowhere did he mention the allegations of sexual harassment. it wasn't. we later learned multiple settlements the terms of which have been those people didn't talk about it, so this is the reporting. >> my issue is you couldn't cover without knowing his reputation. did you know about this stuff and not write it or did you feel like it was nothing or was it an issue of covering that people

turn a blind eye to some serious things? which you referenced and they don't care anything about except to pay off eventually. >> i interviewed women on the record in this interview and women off the record for this book. the subject didn't come up. if you're asking if i knew, i didn't know. and if you want to say why didn't you, why weren't you looking harder, why didn't you push harder on this, fine. i spoke to women who complained to me how they were trained by their managers because they were jerks essentially. i talked to women who described the work vacations where they would send teams to places to launch a city and they would all go out and party, who told me about it as being one of the things they loved most at uber.

so, all i can do is tell you what my reports told me. i could have done more and i could have done better. >> were you aware of the memo that we published last week from travis, the party that no? >> in the back of my brain i remember before i ever started working -- >> can you explain? >> you published a memo that travis felt compelled for some reason to write a memo to his employees before an off-site in miami giving them ground rules on how they should behave at the meeting and i think it includes something like don't have sex with someone who's your subordinate. >> don't vomit because it costs $200, don't throw kegs off of the roof, which is like what, okay. and don't have sex with someone in your direct reports but if you decide to, or three of you do, make sure everybody is consensual. okay, good advice. [laughter]

for a fraternity guy, not the ceo of the company. and the last part that wa of ise crowning glory of this appalling memo was i can't have sex with anyone because i'm the ceo and then hash tag fml which is fuck my life like he is lamenting that he can have sex with his employees. that memo was famous, like we are such dollars so to say. >> it was after the miami thing. >> i'm saying what happens that this gets overlooked? i'm not giving you the blame but a bigger issue that even the women you interviewed or the

men, i don't think it is just women. >> but if anyone is going to bring it up unsolicited when i say tell me what you need to know i said that it would be women. and i think, so i can't do any better than answer your questions as directly as i can. i think when you read my book you will get a sense of an ima immature grown-up running an immature company and so i think i got back and after i turned in the manuscript and that video of him berating the driver it became viral and he said he needed to grow up and point out for the end of the book this is a man that recently entered his fifth decade saying that. and by the way, i also rode in uber with him and the driver recognized that he had the ceo in the back seat and started really getting him the business like you don't understand this

isn't working right, i can't get my e-mails answer on that and they did an e-mail and he said i'm going to follow-up with you and very quickly late at night he copied me in on the e-mail and i said did you do that, because i was in the back. no, of course not, i do that all the time. >> what do you think gets to the culture of it. there's sexual harassment at all companies but nothing like this. and then also again just last week we wrote about this in the thing which i think is what pushed it over the edge. for those who don't know, they got the medical records of a rape victims, uber customer and they were questioning the story blaming it on the ceo and carrying them around for a year, medical records in a criminal case. it doesn't change because that

was just literally last week kind of thing and then they lied to "the new york times" about it when they asked. >> so this is a situation where on an almost daily basis things happen that you couldn't make up if you tried. can you imagine a meeting with the employees for the board members to explain what they are going to do next, and this financier making a sexist comment at that meeting. >> i wonder if you think spending all this time with the company do you imagine the recommendations will be taken seriously and they will change? >> given the scrutiny that they are under it is going to be hard not to take them seriously. when you read through the recommendations, if they are operating manual for how you're

supposed to do human resources. they will institute those changes. i think they have a shot at making those things stick because i don't believe every person is on -- >> but do you believe this culture can because as you know a lot of cultures have the dna of the founders or immediate and they don't change. >> i will make an observation. i think apple was 30 or 35-years-old when i get my book on them and it was a huge education for me because i have always discounted the notion of corporate culture and thought they don't have anything real to talk about and i was completely wrong. the culture was everything and it was a three decade plus old company.

the culture was not as ingrained. as i said i would like to be optimistic for them. you think no chance but i think the chance. >> ina by angelou fan and think when someone shows you their true face for the first time you believe them. every single company that we have is an element of that. the financial side, losing a ton of money, billions. a lot of people like to try to compare themselves to amazon, like they lost a lot of money and then they became what they are today. amazon built a lot of modes, warehouses, very different systems. amazon didn't have any real rivals if you think about it they have small rifles but nothing real. they never got in the game.

>> there were quite a few and they were bad. >> but they built boats everywhernoteseverywhere they ww they are benefiting from them. losing this much money, can you explain that because that's something that i feel is not the case. >> even with what they released we don't have a clear view. we know for a while they were losing a ton of money in china trying to build a business and losing by investing in their own version which we talked about earlier could end for them but they are bringing in zero revenue so the question is does the business itself have a shot of bringing in money. there's been evidence at various stages that it had the

possibility to bring in a lot of money and just take the united states, they are in this arms race you could envision a scenario where not by collusion but because they spend themselves into exhaustion that they both pull off these subsidies and make money. but the flipside of that is already it is interchangeable to them. >> to me the biggest thing was their brand. >> it was easier to explain to people around the country and around the world that knew it. they had been severely tarnished. they have the data at their fingertips, i don't. the data that would be interesting to know is what

consumer behavior is like. anecdotally there's places people just take uber. that's the more prevailing thing. but there's people out there who do. >> she's not very technical just. >> in any case -- [laughter] this is the last question and then we will get into q-and-a. the brand is the most important thing and it's not just this. before that it's are they trying to screw people going to the protest. like every day it feels like trump and i forgot he insulted someone that was disabled. can a brand sustained this much?

the >> they can rejuvenate you need the right people and money and strategy. but i'm not telling you anything you don't know. >> so who does it have to be? >> if there's ever a conversation with the top prospect who says the explain one thing to me, who do i report to, but he isn't there right now. when is he coming back i don't know. what are my specific responsibilities going to be? how do i know that isn't going to change?

>> it is tough, so there is the person they want who wants to be the ceo. >> pick two names. this he mac [laughter] he's a very diplomatic guy.

>> maybe there is enough money in the world, i don't know. >> but talking about the type of person that would be perfect in this situation would be alan mullally on the board who defend the ceo where he gets complex organizations to wrap things up and i don't know how old he is but -- >> and he can rock a sweater vest. >> thanks for your time and bringing truth that is always an added plus. >> she's referring to my wife in the front row. >> the better half, and i really mean it that way. >> you had this amazing

opportunity to write about apple and uber. what is one similarity or one difference of the two companies with pretty unique ceos? >> there's a lot of similariti similarities. steve jobs prided himself in breaking the rules large and small, not as large as uber but that was a part of his persona. i wrote a thing this morning travis told me once i said how do you like running a big company and it was a telling response he said i like to think of it in small pieces. i reflected in the buck and again i don't think that he grasped that wasn't acceptable. he's running a big company. but in fairness, from a storytelling perspective, that was one of steve jobs lines i like to think apple is the largest startup in the world. he made it work.

it was not a small company, there was a ton of professional processes if you would hear stories about people's being screamed at by steve jobs and others being treated horribly but there is no -- that isn't against the rules come it's not agains, it's notagainst the lawt people because you think they suck. >> i wouldn't compare them in any way at all. >> let's say in awhat to say inn aspirational tone, and uber -- >> no, i don't -- [laughter] that's fine. steve jobs was a very great ceo. >> i should preface this by saying i haven't read the book that i would like to know from the both of you what you think is the sort of realistic and practical future given a lot of the shortcomings we talked about tonight among the leadership management and culture.

>> i'm going to give you the cup half full. the company with global operations and i'm reaching for a business cliché that his mind sharing with consumers and with the writers. it's worse than the public perception problems or the reputation being tarnished. if you can get past that. if they can get past that and you bring in the right leadership to run the global operation that would be the cup half full. >> i would say they will probably get over that if they do the right thing. i think that it is problematic in the criminal investigation is problematic but they have a management staff to attract really good people.

you're not going to get sheryl sandberg to show up. so you have all these problems with attrition and keeping staff and drivers happy that this is such a logistical complex company to have the mind share -- [inaudible] and i think they are going to get sold to google. they can't compete in this area they just can't. there's a and b. players and now they don't have the eight players anymore and they've managed to create one of the most toxic cultures i've seen. i don't know who could go in and out you have a ceo floating around saying uber needs to get to uber 2.0 and travesty to get to travis 2.0 like it's all going to rest on his cheeses

like shoulders, and that mentality is so silicon valley. he's someone who created most of the damage not taking responsibility for it or having any kind of sorry. david omdurman i think he meant something slightly different talking about having discussions with women. a bad stupid joke at the wrong time but he quit immediately. he did the right thing. he knew he would be a distraction. one single stupid joke. including the india stuff and please read about that it will disturb you. >> he was probably delighted to be done with it. >> someone called and said that it was applauded by him to get off the board. >> once it happened --

>> right here in the back. >> i was expecting that he would talk tonight about topics like uber and at the job market, uber blank impact on urban life, uber and the economy, the impact on our social life but you chose not to talk about any of those things and i'm not ask -- >> we can. >> i'm mostly curious why you don't find those topics important and interesting enough to discuss. >> i do. [applause] i do and i can't tell exactly which direction you're hoping i'm going to go or which direction the people that are clapping are going to go. i spent quite a bit of time thinking about the impact on the economy as part of my research

for the book i became a driver and wanted to experience what it was like. i didn't do it for a long time but i did it long enough to learn quickly that i enjoyed my job a lot more than being a uber driver. >> what is the impact not just of uber but all these companies in this economy. >> i think it's very complicated. on the one hand, they didn't invent piecework, piecemeal work. they didn't invent contracting. they sort of i don't know, they made it more efficient being of the procurer of people and things for that piecework. my observation and talking to a ton of drivers and experiencing it myself in one breath they

will tell you the many reasons why they hate being uber drivers and then they will tell you why they are which is they are hard up for cash and for many reasons they like that they have the ability to get it quickly and to do it when they want to do it which is no trivial thing but like i said they will give you the same argument and the same conversation. >> what about the impact on the city, the idea of self driving cars. i think they are different subjects. i am not one of those who seize how self driving cars are going to work quickly. when you talk to these people, they tell you it is a wi when is

safe but it's going to take consumer acceptance and regulation to get there and that may take quite a bit of time. it's funny and interesting i will make an observation uber and lyft are cluttering the street, but in john zimmer's words they are taking cars off the road. >> can you say the quote used in the book about horses? >> yes, this was classic. he was asked in china do you envision a future where people don't drive cars themselves and he said no, people still ride horses for leisure even though that was once our primary form of transportation, and i can envision that a people take their car out for a ride on a beautiful sunny afternoon. >> than the quote about drivers at the conference where he got in big trouble which is the flipside of that. >> where he called a taxi --

>> he wanted to get rid of all drivers he said someday my business will work when i can get rid of all drivers. that's what the crowd said at the time, too. it was an observation he was telling the truth and he was brutally honest about what people don't say is they are hoping to get rid of all humans in the process of driving, drivers. >> the logical conclusion of the billions of dollars that all of these companies are spending on automation is the elimination of human jobs which is the same conclusion altogether examples happening. and he says it in the most embarrassing foot in his mouth way. >> i have a question that follows on the conversation about the culture of uber. i wonder if there is any connection you think from your research where there is sexism

and discrimination and drivers incomes. there's a storthere was a storyi guess they are being sued because they didn't pay them enough. that culture is connected to the fact that the company's mission is to disrupt the taxi industry and as we were just talking about eventually to possibly take out the transportation sector worldwide. i would imagine working in that environment would be different from any other job because you're dealing with all of these questions as you go about your daily task so is that part of the culture and something people talk about, are their connections? >> they understand the impact their business is having. >> i would think that would be something that is at the top level or is it not something they think about?

>> as i'm sure you've heard it absolutely is something they talk about and to give you a window into the mindset of a company, this was for travis and the people around him a badge of honor and i'm paraphrasing him now, these are his words, taxi commissions and owners are corrupt. they want to keep the number available to consumers down and keep prices high and we will have as many on the road as possible to keep its low for consumers. that was the founding mint copy of the companies and they were not shy about that. >> witwhat about the second question, the idea that they may disrupt baby that is yesterday's fight. they don't talk about that anymore about the idea of getting rid of humans in the

driving process in a way that might affect the corporate culture i don't think it is particularly surprising that there's sexism at a company that has anti-humanistic values. [applause] >> i am a humanist. i named i think what we do and what you do is going to be the last industry to be disrupted by robots. can you imagine a robot -- >> totally, they are making them. [laughter] no. you know that isn't going to happen in your lifetime. >> i will be dead, i don't care. [laughter] >> those of us, we are kind of at the end. we will be dead. [laughter] that is a great question. last question. thank you so much for coming. what is the advice aside from not writing these memos and going to brothels with your employees.

[laughter] just to steer away from this and make sure that the people you are bringing on anybody's the value that will get you to the next stage and not be dragged down. i know there are good people but -- >> that's a good thing because people change. talk about not as a founder what happens in the churning of the founder? >> there is little evidence. bill gates changed after he became a philanthropist. mark zucker berg grew. steve jobs didn't change but he grew tremendously. it's a great question. i structured my book around lessons you can learn both for entrepreneurs which steve jobs considered himself to be one and corporate executives.

>> what about tips? there are hundreds of founders. what do you think the key assets are for things to avoid obviously not writing that memo but think of some -- >> i will give you -- i mean, the one that was uber did from the outset of the core tenant of what apple did which is laser focused on things and when uber was thriving and growing they were focused on one thing which was making a huge. steve jobs took this in an art form they were going to say no to more things than they were going to say yes and they were only going to make products on the conference room table. that we could have a long conversation about the fact that it's over. they are investigating flying cars into transporting chickens

and barbecue and helicopters and so, i mean i think great entrepreneurs and business executives try to focus on as few things as possible. that was my learning and i think some of the people ask what advice would you give. i hate to do that, but that would be the obvious advice. what would you do if he were the ceyou werethe ceo of a universi? >> no way. you've kind of done what i am saying i won't do. you run a company that you've kept to being a journalist the entire time and i have had the over the years. i don't want to be the ceo of uber.

can you be a pioneer and not survive.

before the program is up there's now an informed tradition to ask the speaker's following questions what is your 62nd idea to make the world a better place. don't be snarky. >> they give you 60 minutes of preparation. i'm going to get there. i wish i could be snarky, but i just tried really hard to do three things, to say please and thank you and to be grateful for all the blessings i have and if everyoneveryone shopped for thal the world would be a better place. >> fantastic answer. [applause] let's give a big round of applause. there's a lot in his book. it's a fascinating history of uber if you want to find out how they got where they thought. [applause] and thank you for sharing your thoughts with us.

it's called wild ride inside of uber's quest for world domination. fantastic. he will be signing this excellent book wild ride down the hall and copies are for sale. he is ready to write personal notes to all of you, i know. [laughter] to please take your time and ask for whatever you want. [laughter] he's a great journalist. thank you. [applause] is one book that i'm reading and just about finished is sebastian's book called tribe and of course he's the author of a perfect storm.

i chair the veterans affairs committee in washington and it's a book about ptsd, reintegration of our veterans back into society so it's a great book and i recommend that you read it. i serve also as the cochair at the literacy caucus here in washington is one of th and ones i encourage everyone to do is read this summer. obviously we have a lot of very boring things in washington, papers, policy papers and all that, but just for fun this summer, i'm about to books behind. i've read every book that he has ever written starting with his first one and i've never given up on him. he's a great writer and also i want to read the book on andrew jackson and the reason i'm reading that is andrew jackson was the first person to hold my congressional seat and in tennessee where i live, they have to presidents. one is andrew jackson and the other is andrew thompson so

those are folks i would like to read about this summer. >> booktv wants to know what you are reading. send your list over twitter and booktv or instead graham@book_tv or to the facebook page, facebook.com/booktv. booktv on c-span2, television for serious readers. motherboard on my magazine senior editor ..