togetherful really learning more about his life and what went into shaping and molding that mind that has create such great musical lyrics and music. >> booktv wants to know what you're reading. send us your summer reading list via twitter @booktv or instagram @book underscore tv. or post it to our facebook page, facebook.com/book to booktv. booktv on c-span2, television for serious readers. [inaudible conversations] >> if i could have your

attention, please, we'll get started. thank you, everyone. really pleased you're all here. i'm president of the manhattan institute, and it's -- thank you. [applause] it's a pleasure for me to introduce jason rileyed -- rileyed today. jason is a regular columnist for "the wall street journal" and a commentator for fox news. in his new book, "false black power," jason offers a critique of civil rights leaders and their prioritization of pure political power which he argues has failed to produce significant results for african-americans. the book also includes thoughtful responses to jason's arguments from two leading black intellectuals. it's a slender book, but it packs a powerful punch. as one blogger noted, what makes this book shine is the clarity of its logic and accessibility of its writing style.

just as fred astaire made it look easy to dance, so does riley express his mastery through elegance so natural that it seems effortless. [laughter] naomi, how did can you get to write this? [laughter] >> [inaudible] >> all right, this you go. and it's available for just $10. $6 on kindle. ing and jason may not get rich with this book, but hopefully he will open a few minds. please join me in welcoming the fearless and the peerless jason riley. [applause] >> thank you for that very kind introduction, harry. and i'm glad -- larry. and i'm glad you told a few jokes. i was going to the start with a joke about c-span where i appeared recently. then i found out c-span was going to be covering this event, and my wife advised me to back off. [laughter] so this will be a joke-free presentation, because that's

really all i had. [laughter] so thank you. thank you, larry. false black power, what am i talking about? in a nutshell, what i'm saying is that barack obama needed black voters far more than black voters needed barack obama. and that's not a perm attack on the -- a personal attack on the former president. you could substitute in the name of any black politician, and the statement would still hold true. that's what i'm trying to get at in this book. it started out as a column, and it grew into a longer essay and then eventually the short book that was recently published. but my intention was the make a fairly simple point which is that political activity is not the most effective way of

advancing a group economically. a racial or ethnic group's political success does not automatically lead to economic success. one does not flow naturally from the other. it's hardly an original observation, but i think it's an important one that is regularly ignored by civil rights leaders and black political leaders when practice identity politics. urging blacks to vote as a bloc, favoring candidates of their own racial or ethnic background and so forth. and i thought the end of the obama presidency was an especially good time to reiterate the limits of this strategy. which has been this place for more than 50 years now. since the 1960s, black leaders have really prioritized the integration of political institutions. and they've had a great deal of

success this doing this -- in doing this on their own terms. by the early 1980s, major u.s. cities with large black populations -- cleveland, detroit, chicago, washington, philadelphia -- had elected black mayors. between 1970 and 2010, the number of black elected officials grew from fewer than 1500 to more than 10,000 in this country. including, of course, a black president. in addition, we saw a proliferation of black police chiefs and assume superintendents and council members and state legislators. racially-gerrymandered voting districts were created to insure the election of blacks to congress and so forth. the problem is that all of this political clout has never really paid off economically for the black poor. which is what we were told would happen. you look at how black underclass

fared in coleman young's detroit or marian barry's washington d.c. as my manhattan institute colleague, fred siegel, has noted, these black mayors created these unbeatable political machines in the name of helping the poor, yet the poor became even more impoverished on their watch. mississippi has long boasted more black elected officials than any other state in the country, yet it continues to have one of the highest black poverty rates in the country. there have been case studies of places like atlanta in the 1970s and '80s, for example, where under black mayors the city implemented policies for hiring black city workers and black contractors. what happened? well, well-off blacks in those places became better off. but average income blacks were left behind, and the black poor actually lost ground. and that's been the story nationwide. in an era of inup creasing

grabbing -- increasing black political clout, not to mention affirmative action and racial set-asides, the black underclass has lost ground both in absolute terms and relative to the white upside class. underclass. in the 1970s and '80s and even into the '90s, the poorest 20% of blacks saw their incomes decline at more than double the rate of comparable whites. this history, i think, should have served to temper expectations for the first black president. without taking away anything from barack obama's historic accomplishment or the country's widespread sense of pride in the racial progress that his election symbolized, the reality is that there was little reason to believe that a black president was the answer to racial inequalities or the problems of the black poor. i think the expectations were set way too high.

on the racial front and on other fronts. i read a article of the weekend in "the new york times" which counted as a failure the obama administration's inability to end racial -- or to end income inequality. and i said, wow. [laughter] he was supposed today that? [laughter] the expectations, i just think, were off the charts on many fronts. but particularly on the racial front and what his presidency would be able to do. and sure enough, black/white gaps in household incomes, poverty, home ownership and other measures all widened during obama's term in office. the jobs situation for blacks did improve towards the end of his second term, but blacks did not see their average unemployment rate fall below double digits until the third month of obama's seventh year in

office. so now we have more evidence that the proliferation of black politicians in recent decades, which now includes the twice-elected black president, has done little to narrow racial gaps in employment and income and academic achievement and other areas. this is not to say, of course, that blacks should stay out of politics or not run for office or not engage politically. that's not what i'm saying. what i'm questioning is whether gaining political influence should continue to play such a central role in the strategy of black leaders when it comes the advancing blacks economically. or whether their focus should be on other areas. that's because most groups in america and elsewhere who have risen economically have done so with little or no political influence.

and groups that have enjoyed early political success have tended to rise more slowly. so it's not that you can't take the political route. you can. but chances are you're going to rise more slowly than you would taking other routes. germans, jew, italians, asians are among those who saw economic gains precede political gains in america, and it's a pattern you also see internationally. ethnic chinese in southeast asia, the english in argentina, jews in britain among many other examples all prospered economically while mostly shunning politics. even if a group had the ability to wield political influence, they didn't always choose to do so. german immigrants to the u.s. in colonial times were not lacking in numbers. in fact, there was, there were so many of them that benjamin

franklin was complaining about how many there were in pennsylvania as far back as the 1750s. he said why should pennsylvania, founded by the english, become a colony of aliens who will shortly become so numerous as to germize us instead of us anglifying them? never theless, germans -- many of whom arrived as indentured servants and focused initially on paying off the cost of their voyage -- had other priorities and were well nope for avoiding politics -- well known for avoiding politics. we know that german immigrants everywhere from australia to brazil followed same pattern. basically shunning politics and establishing themselves economically first. germans began entering politics only after they had risen economically. a counter example and the example that blacks have followed most closely would be

the irish who rose from poverty, whose rise from poverty, i should say, was especially slow given that you had these irish-run political organizations in places like boston and philadelphia and new york. who were dominating local government. the irished had more political success -- the i required had more political success tan any other ethnic group historically after they arrived, yet they were the slowest rising group. the political power of a relatively small number of irish-elected officials had little impact on the economic progress of most irish-americans. in fact, it wasn't until those political maaing chiens started to decline in influence that we saw the swelling of the irish middle class to the point where today average irish incomes and educational attainment and so forth all exceed the national average. viewed against this history,

many blacks were expecting obama's presidency to deliver more prosperity than political clout tends to deliver for a group in the u.s. or anywhere else. the black experience in america, i should add, is of course different from the irish experience which in turn is different from the chinese or the german or the jewish experience. indeed, we can't really even generalize about the black experience here, because native blacks have patterns that differ from black immigrants from the west inties, for example -- indies, for example, or from africa. but that doesn't mean that because we can't make perfect apples to apples comparisons that we have nothing to learn from what other groups experienced or that no comparisons can be made. many different racial and ethnic minority groups have experienced various degrees of hardship in the u.s. and in other countries all over the world. and i think how those groups

have dealt with those circumstances is something to study closely and draw lessons from going forward. even if the only lesson is to manage expectations. one of the clear lessons from this history is also that human capital, the collective skills and knowledge that create economic value, have proven to be far more important than political capital in getting ahead. a racial or ethnic group's culture, its attitudes, its habits, its values matter more, much more than electing people who look like them. and that's reality helps to explain why blacks fared the way they did not only in the obama era, but also in the preceding decades. pruitt the 1960s -- prior to the 1960s and the first half of the 20th century when blacks were more focused on developing their human capital, we saw racial gaps narrowing and

incomes, educational attainment, representation in the skilled professions and elsewhere. .. pleasure >> >>

[applause] please wait for the microphone. >> how you compare booker t. washington how blacks can rise from poverty?. >>. >> a think the difference of strategy over the decades

that there are more similarities and booker t. washington did not reject civil rights gordian saying using the political system here. and without that industrial learning. but you do see something that blossomed when it comes to those choices but of that leadership with the naacp

the adn that racism with that shift of attitude came. where we must see racism for our own destiny. in addition to the focus on political power. and what they play off endlessly.

>> to questions. you sound a little while the of your criticisms but to what extent do you specifically state that is counter productive to the advancements of blacks? i was interested that john recorder is critical but to what extent is that different from your view and the ways you might respond?. >> so what tends to happen when you get a black leader so for instance to take education of school choice

in the polls off the charts. barack obama gets into office and in the shadow of the school voucher program in washington d.c.. not because they are not popular or into me and. many minorities waiting list but they tried to shut that down with a political need to satisfy to get elected which is mostly the teachers' union that does not like school choice he did their bidding with the ethnic voting bloc. the priorities shifted he became a politician. and that could backfire so in terms of johns criticism

from the part of that surrounded and thinking that shifted the of the industrialization of the country but those concerns focusing to believe the get go -- the ghetto and that is what led him that i should have done more in making this point for decades that is not the argument that the sequence with the social

breakdown to precede the flight detroit did not write it after the factory jobs but the right came first so that is my problem so that is what jar -- john was criticizing. >> please raise your hand. >> i want to take you for your id glading comments

with the pieces of your prior book that my question is a more personal one i uninterested in the reactions in the black community to your work?. >> but that really depends on who you are talking about talking to the clergymen horror talking to students are at amherst getting three very different reactions on the audience side. but again it depends if you

are speaking to people who are sympathetic of the naacp point of view and then you will get a negative response so what i write about makes the naacp relevant if the problem facing blacks are not racial barriers than there isn't much use for that and to the extent they will be out there advocating against the charter schools they're doing more harm so that will very.

>> a question about president obama, your comment about the bloc voting in the example of the teachers' union is well said because i suspect he had this in his campaign. where would they go? with the teachers' union may stray but after the obama years there will then be awaking that it is not all this is cracked up to be. so what they do to attract black voters with better integrated parties and be less divided racially. >> you can quibble over why

that is. and with political expediency. some people may look at the success of trumpets a we don't need the votes to win. and then to diversify. but then there is an argument and then to do better and then run those political ads we have not

seen that type of concerted effort among those individual candidates and then to go collected and then people like richard out in los angeles over paul ryan who has traveled the country like gay community leader. rand paul has gone to black colleges those are good but you need a much larger part. if you remember the autopsy report the party said this

is what we need to do going forward. >> to what degree is there a role for the black elite in the private sector to mobilize the black community with the recognition of your view to disseminate that message?. >> there is a role. but it depends on many members of these elites that have become convinced the government put them in the position is that they are i have spoken to groups of black professionals those of the 1% but for racial

preferences see were still fighting a mindset of pushing on to do black america not just encouraging independence but upper and middle lower class that we would not be where we are today with big government so that is a challenge. >> charles murray wrote about the impact of welfare

and in the navies of family disintegration and. if you look at the situation and it is right now, what do you do policy lies for that progress that they've made in the '50s and early '60s?. >> from a government policy perspective that new program needs to come along. with the government assistance programs and then to become a lure and trap for generations in putting that in place regarding work. we have kids trapped in

failing schools letting those that we go worked. if we know we have a lot of budding entrepreneurs in harlem cut the red tape and that hamper the growth and. so they can play the role to resist some programs that are out there. to take a more humble approach going forward. >> one more question. but you may recall ronald reagan got in trouble for going beyond the of what you

say. some of those black leaders want that situation. and then they're out of bed job. so did they go too far that they had a vested interest? they get their foot in the door for the first time we set aside those programs?. >> if you look get these case studies by those that black businesses are city contractors so that is a

myth. but in terms of the incentives of black leaders yes, there is some truth to that that black leaders gain benefits politically to be racially paranoia that is why a obama indulges the group like black lives matter it is politically useful even if they know that police shootings are driving those homicide rates. to save you do have some points here but he was not going to shut those down but

yes there is some truth of that i would not take the argument too far i don't want to psychoanalyze these books but they tried to help they are sincere so they pledged those government policies and racism has been eliminated. >> but they are just pushing for this reason. >> we'll be doing a conference with jason in the

fall to elaborate but in the meantime good luck with your book. [applause] [inaudible conversations]