our pockets now. >> thank you brian. >> thank you so much. see stan, where history unfold daily. in 1979 c-span was created as a public service by america's cable television companies. and is brought to you today by your cable or satellite provider. >> on booktv today we have on the campus of ucla in los angeles. we're talking with professors who are also authors, brenda stevenson teaches history here at ucla, for spencer stevenson what courses do you teach? >> courses on slavery and women's history also interracial dynamics. >> how long have you been at ucla? >> the six years. >> how has it changed? >> tremendously! it has grown the student population, it has grown to the type of student that we have.

in the type of faculty that we have and the things that we focus on regularly in the student department which is where my heart and mind is as well. it has been a wonderful time here though. just seeing the change in being part of it. >> so you came the year before the la riots. >> i did. it was such shock from texas where i was, having been born and raised in virginia and coming here and being part of that. seeing it firsthand. >> heavy rain about that? >> yes i have. i was so impacted by it that i decided to write a book. -- i wrote a book that was published in the oxford university press in 2013. >> and lewis tosha harling's?

>> a 16-year-old girl who walked into a liquor market, a grocery store in march 1991. and close to home in south-central los angeles and she picked up a bottle of orange juice across the dollars 79. she put in her backpack and went to the counter with the two dollars in her hand. the shopkeeper thought she was trying to steal the jews. a fight began and she knocked the woman down she stood up and had a gun. the girl turned to walk out of the store and she shot her in the back of the head. so that was one of the major cases that began erections that are no known as the 1992 riots for rebellion or whatever you want to call it. >> and booktv has talked about the book before. >> they had taught me about the book. they had wonderful conversations and i hope it is in your archives will people

can go back to him more about her and the book. plus it is in the archives. but we are here to talk to you today about your most recent book called what is slavery. brenda stevenson what is the answer to that question? >> it is in transport it is who we were people from the very beginning.every civilization in the world, egyptians and if you look at the chinese, latin america, what is north america, every place in the world has had slavery. and we still have it today. i mean there are millions of people who are enslaved every day and almost every country in the world. states. and so slavery is one of those enduring horrific institutions that we created and we tend to turn a blind eye to which his wife it is like the city. >> into looking into contemporary little bit, but

how did this begin? flexibility again with people organizing the society and that some people had to work in some people did not. and so once you have the hierarchy within the society of people that were thinkers, artists, administrators and leaders etc. decided they wanted other people to work for them. most of slavery really evolves from the persons who are conquerors. that conquer other people and then they really should get those other people to becoming the workers. the people that want to work for them. billy was slavery where it comes up most the time. so it has been used as a form of conquering, is a form of labor, it has also been used as a way of indicating as well because owning a slave means you have a certain amount of money and his sentiment of status in society.

slavery is all of those things and it comes from all of those things. >> is american slavery unique in any way? >> american slavery is unique to a certain extent. i think what a lot of people do not understand about slavery in the united states is that it is an institution that lasts a long time. it lasted for miller the 1500s when the spanish first arrived until the five. it's an institution and became very racialized and associated with if you are a black person in where you thought of as a slave first. but you can prove it but it became sort of associate with blackness. being of african descent. what else is unique about slavery nightsticks is that we come from a larger institution of slavery in the americas. latin america, the caribbean in

particular. but in no place or no time with informing slaves on the ground as it was in the united states. so these are the kinds of things that make the institution of slavery in the united states unique. >> why africa? >> will begin in the americas. at the time of discovery really. i have this on the west coast of africa in 1450 or so and beginning trade relations was africans were already organizing their own society, their agreement, their own training system. and so think that they would trade actually were not slaves for the most part. what they were looking for mostly were witches and things that were exotic. ivory, gold, spices.

those were the kind of things that were initially traded between europe and africa. as you also at the same moment began to quote - unquote discover the americas and to decide the wealth of the north america strays and extent laid in agricultural pursuits and with the agricultural pursuits, there was a need for labor. and so, at the same time that europeans were trading ivory gold, they began to also change your people that could also now be used in these colonial sites where the economy was being developed. and very labor-intensive crops such as sugar, coffee, tobacco and of course very much later caught in were introduced and became basis for trade between

the americas, africa and europe. then more and more africans who were part of the trade request into the traits. >> was there slavery in europe? >> there was slavery every place. we often think about society in europe that was similar to slave societies. of course there were slaves in eastern europe. the word slave comes from the word slav. because there are so many slaves and the time of the world. one things about the slave trade that really - items were traded around the world is europeans world around the world with instant from africa, europe and now gets from asia and the americas as well. >> wasn't more or less outlawed in europe and went to the us

become the center? if you want to really think about slavery in europe ending for dwindling i should say. after in the early 18th-century. at about the same time they began really slave trade in the united states. we can have people then, france for example they went present as ending slavery on their territory but maintaining slavery in their colonies. >> brenda stevenson , the african nations, the african tribes aware of what was happening? did they know what was happening these young men and women? >> while they have slave societies. and so the first africans who were taken to the americas and europe as well because

initially it was spain, portugal, england and france and other places in europe as well. even places like norway and amsterdam and the dutch had them as well. so africans had slave societies just like everywhere else in the world. and these persons, the first that were taken a slave or persons that were already enslaved in western central africa. and they were the first ones in the slave trade. not did they know what was going on? some did not. some of them themselves- taken as slaves. with traders themselves up fall into bad circumstances and become enslaved themselves. so they were witnessed but most people did not know the extent that of the brutality. that is what we believe but you know slavery is a brutal

institution no matter where you find it. people's lives and their desires for their lives are denied, the control of their lives, their bodies, their labor capacity. it is not there anymore so slavery is wherever whatever you find it. >> all colonies in the us had slaves? >> all 13 colonies in the us are slaves. other parts of the earth at the time that did not belong to what became the united states. the french colonies in louisiana for example. yet colonies in florida or in texas new mexico, all of the spaces have slaves. in the course, many people -- first in the americas. europeans first arrived and people that when they

colonized, they were native peoples and native peoples themselves also had indigenous forms of slavery. there was a lot of slavery going around. [ as move south, when was it being abolished in the colonies? massachusetts for example or new york? were there slaves leading up to the civil war colonies?>> with the american revolution he really did and slavery to a certain united states. and what was the new states. and so we see for example, one of the work in 1776 in virginia statement become fight for the british you can gain your freedom. that is one of the really first emancipation proclamation's. this of course, she did it in order to get soldiers. he did not have any. and he was out there outside of norfolk virginia trying to figure out what the heck to do and he just decided, i better take advantage of the people

who want to be free and he will fight for me. so that was one of the first emancipation proclamation spewed at the same time the american revolution but a kind of moral conflict to the persons who work founders of our nation and people began the institution of slavery in the north east. and so we see by 17, slavery had disappeared in the northeast. and it was outlawed in most of the territories became the united states of america. >> but it was baked into the constitution for the seven states. >> are slaves. it did not outlaw slavery in the constitution. what did was that the slave trade could be discussed to be ended by 1808 and it was never

an african slave trade although there was lot of people smuggled in afterwards. but really, american revolution that we begin to see slavery was to the south. >> brenna stevenson, there is a series that your book is part of. what is it? is what is your. and it is the opportunity to learn about important issues or topics and actually world history that they might be interested in. it gives introduction two. pockets. whether it is slavery, african-american, the french revolution, excessive. the soffits that capture one's imagination and perhaps you do not have a chance to take a class in college we do not have a chance to see that tedious theories or something like

that. it gives you an opportunity to learn something and it is a fairly short format. >> there is a lot of first-person accounts in your book. r. >> reviewed your research to. >> principal and from virginia which is really the center slavery. in the colonial period and you know, slavery remains important up and through the civil war. so kind of in his history in a way. you know, going to jamestown, williamsburg you know all of the locations and studying at the university of virginia. her research is really done himself. it is in virginia, north carolina, south carolina, typing this etc. and when i tried to do is i want people to really understand enslavement from the position of those persons. i think a lot of the history

prior to the 1970s a particular we focus on the perspective of those persons who owned slaves. and so, we had a great - where people focus on the what the slaves themselves think? the documents will provide this perspective? and i try to really get their voices into what i write. >> is there an extensive voices? wasn't a lot of oral history are what? >> there were a lot of oral histories production one of the wonderful things that happened in the great depression of the country was that go out and capture us history.in one of the great works project association and which they went into the south and they began to interview aging men and

women slave. past slave and find out what were the members of their experiences as slaves? some have that archive. we also have other archons were people have written their stories at the time of freedom. 1840, 1850, 1860s. i do have some very early accounts of the 18th century the people who gave their freedom in men and women that were able to publish their stories. this is where the abolitionists really wanted people to understand was institution was likely to get people to abandon it. we had a lot of publications doing that time period as well. >> was that was at least a small abolitionist movement? >> there was always a small abolitionist movement. principal applicant themselves were the first abolitionist

because they were just, they would run away and establish societies and get back to africa will try to get a life from their masters. as soon as they know basically landed. i mean you have these advertisements and one on newspapers about escape from you know the ship. really the ship is still in the heart of the have a chance to even be sold or just arrived. they cannot speak english, don't know their names, don't buy the names of their masters. these were the first true abolitionist for these africans who arrived and said i have to get back to africa. i have to get you know back to someplace where i not treated this kind of way. and then of course we have the quakers early on also. methodists early on as well. some germans. gain their freedom. and they gave a very different kinds of ways. they also began to of course push themselves into and create an abolitionist movement.

next slave revolts, was a common occurrence? >> yes they were. people always plotting and trying to end the institution or at least and there part of the institution for the parts that affected them. so they were quite but more unrealized. for someone with spill the beans or someone would hear something worth something was unusual. the person shoehorned toward controlling the slave population including their owners as well, listen, the government controllers. they were old on the lookout for those persons who were plotting on a slave revolt. one of the things that masters understood and understood was that no one wanted to be enslaved. i mean no one wanted to be a slave.

they knew that people would always try to undo this bondage. and they were always trying to figure out how to keep them in bondage slave was trying to figure out how to get out of it. >> you have a list of many more nearly all of the slave rebellions in the colonies in the back of your book. >> yes. >> will learn about not turner. once you learn about that? >> we learned about not turner because it is to realize some of the great horrors of the institution. and it was great for about slave revolts but slaves in the middle of the night and set people's throats and burned on the houses and things like that. this happened with not turner. in 1831, in southhampton county virginia. not turner was a brilliant young man who was a literalist,

a preacher, a leader in one of the interesting things about him with many of the people who would lead slave revolts was that he truly, deeply believe that he had been chosen to do this. he had been chosen for greatness and that is one of the common themes that i see in slave leadership. and leadership in general. he has this innate sense of his importance and the is being chosen to do something great. and so we remember this particular slave revolt i think because it caused such a shutter throughout the south. almost hundreds of black people in retaliation and there is a public trial and it which met turner who was a minister talked about god choosing him for this task. and it really was an enormous,

credibility to the abolitionist movement which is really just getting at that moment to say people, this is what will happen if you continue to enslaved people that no one wants to be enslaved. you are at great risk for having these people in this kind of condition living with you. and it really changed slavery dramatically in the country because the laws affecting enslaved people and also italy trees black people change greatly after that. they learned how to read and write for simple people who were freed now, they pushed or was pushed out of seven states. because they for a year but that's all and those that are

still asleep, there was some occupations you could not, that allowed greater mobility for example that you are not allowed to have. so really did change and it caused a great tightening of restrictions around free people of color in the rent slaves themselves. >> how large was the free black population during this period? >> about 1/10 of the slave population. for example, if you have 200,000 slaves, in 1830 or so they have about 200,000 free people of color. of course, most of them were located in the northeast and in the midwest but you also had the, large southern urban black population. the largest was in maryland, there was a large number in new

orleans, a large number of free people of color as well in other smaller cities also. >> brenda stevenson , was the impact of uncle tom's cabin request it was very impractical. it was very. really captured the totality of the institution and and so, capture the imagination of the world. that became the most book of the 19th century. it was read more than any other book except for the bible. it was translated in so many different languages. even in chinese. and it also, it was so popular that the princes have to work 24/7 to produce enough copies of it. it was really big big, the literary hit of the 19th century. of course the, through the

first movies produced and it was in the late 20th century based on uncle tom's cabin and so, even edison, edison had an early, thomas edison has an early movie, a silent movie of uncle tom's cabin. >> did it sell in the south? >> it did sultan south of the was also banned in the south. so you know there were people who wanted to read it. you had to read it to be able to protest it you know but also they were people who thought this is not good literature for the south. in this course, the south is on propaganda going. they were africans very important from the 1820s onwards. work producing literary and stories about slavery. and you know you are taking uncivilized people and he was

civilizing them. people, making them productive by teaching them christianity and teaching them to have a skill and organize family life because in africa they were promiscuous and over sexualized excesses. so there was a whole you know proslavery machinery that was very important and it fit into the literary industry of the time and the mean of the - the south fought back. >> i think i read that the men who wrote the hymn amazing grace used to be a slave trader as well. >> yes, he was a slave trader and that is why he was so affected by the horror of it all. eventually he gave up and became abolitionist and wrote this song.

>> 1861, the civil war starts. give us a snapshot of the south population culture, etc. >> the south in 1861 was the richest part of the nation. it was extremely wealthy, extremely elitist. those persons that were at the very top were slaveholders. they often with politicians as well on the state level as well as on the national level. the south, the industrial revolution of the northeast and so, it was in a good place financially and they wanted to hold onto it. it was a large slave population. almost 4 million people at the time. it was a place that was not slowing down in terms of the institution of slavery and they

really wanted to open mesh back to the slave trade. he wanted more territory in the west to expand. he wanted territory in latin america to go to the caribbean and central america to expand. to expand their plantation and they weren't taking -- was interesting is that this was happening in the united states. slavery was living at the time that we began to really saw this dwindle in the americas. i mean and had emancipated slaves in the 1830s, france had emancipated slaves in the caribbean in 1840s. and so united states and cuba

and brazil that was really still you know pushing for slavery and went it was really driving. >> in the middle of the civil war, abraham lincoln issued the emancipation proclamation in 1863. >> 1863. >> any effect? yes. one of the things interesting is that because african and american slings still interested, so invested in freedom that as soon as the forces arrived in south carolina in 1861, basically and they go behind and believing that this is an army of liberation. of course it was not. you know these were not armies of liberation but this is during the american revolution and the working team 12. anytime scott forrest came down to fight what was the elite, which was there enough they

thought maybe these people should be here for me. and so, you know the emancipation proclamation of 1863 did give legitimacy to those persons who were allowing the military men for allowing slaves to come and stand behind the lines and work behind the lines as free people. >> april 65 is when the war ended. what happened to the slaves the next day? >> will, there was a series of things because in some places like texas for example, slaves could find truck were slaves did not know they were free readily. and never see this you know this big gap in time.

but some people up. and because this notion of being able to walk free when before you could not walk beyond a small geospatial area for their plantation was, it was intriguing to them. some people went on to the next plantation. they became sharecroppers, just wanted to get away from their owners. some people say. people do not like to head any other place to go. and so there are all kinds of responses to it. and of course, it really did take a lot of organizing. some done by the military, some done by eight societies that came down initially took down food and educated people to prepare black men eventually for the boat to be part of the electorate you know, to prepare black men to be ministers

because they wanted to christianize those persons who had been enslaved and so it took you know a great amount of effort to organize how to help these people who had been oppressed in so many ways intellectually, socially, culturally. politically. to be prepared to become citizens of the united states. >> brenda stevenson , you write about that 20 to 30 million people are still enslaved? who are they, where are they? >> they are everywhere. unfortunately. who they are, mostly children and women. one of the great truths about slavery across time and place is that most of the people who have been enslaved have been children and women. the people we see is most

vulnerable in society. that is one of the differences with slavery in the united states and slavery during the slave era that we are talking about. you have equal numbers of men and women who are slaves. but most of them are very young of course because you know throughout time time must have been and shall not, they are in asia, they are in europe. in the united states, people who are forced into work that are shut in, travel papers, documents are taken away from them. they are forced into prostitution, they cannot escape. there'd be in, star, drugged and so they have no control over what happens to them. many of them come out of war-torn situations that we see happening in the middle east

that we see happening in africa. these are the most you know, vulnerable people as refugees as we call them, refugees and those are enslaved.these are people who feel subject to slave trading in southern sudan for example. and other places in africa. these are people who have parents that are so impoverished that people take their children to pay for their debts. unities are the people that are enslaved today. >> brenda stevenson teaches history at ucla. this is her most recent book, "what is slavery?". this is booktv on c-span. >> you are watching booktv on c-span2. with top nonfiction books and authors every weekend. booktv, television for serious readers.