i was hoping to get transportation and 2001 because my whole background i was a transportation banker for a number of years for citicorp and bank of america and i worked for transportation companies, so my whole background was in transportation so it is nice to be able to return to a field which i had worked previously and it's nice to be back in a department that i'm very familiar.

>> earlier today the conflict was the focus of the discussion at the middle east institute. we will hear from a united nations representative that works on humanitarian relief for palestinian refugees. this is about 90 minutes. good afternoon everybody. i'm the vice president for policy research and analysis here at the middle east institute and i will be the moderator for today's discussion on issues surrounding the politics, the daily life and challenges related to the gaza strip. this is the latest at the family foundation lecture series.

we are distant cousins perhaps and this is being live streamed from our website and i think also c-span is covering it as well and will be available later as a podcast for the website as well. because it is being recorded just for general decorum please put your phones on silent. please use the hash tag event if you are and we hope you will connect regularly on twitter and facebook. we have a lot of articles, graphics, reviews and other tools for understanding the region and policy. we also just published a new

book towards the reachable order in the middle east to get from where we are today to an alternative future you can take a look at it on the website and it's available on amazon. we are also undertaking an expansion campaign here while we rebuild the original across the corner on m. street it's a rapidly growing institution and if you were able to continue the cards that look like this that are available at the front desk where you signed in. we are looking at the critical humanitarian situation and there is a lot going on in and around between the palestinian

authority fighting within the movement itself it shifts impacting the situation. gaza has been under a blockade for almost a decade now and things have recently gotten worse as the authority is reducing salary payments into the issues that are impacting the situation. part of the discussion today is to ask not only help they can help mitigate the suffering that how we bring that back is through the regional and international deliberations in some kind of political process and how this avoids dynamic that some scholars are warning could

raise the risk of the war again after the last war that was very devastating and also the loss of life among the israelis we certainly want to avoid another. we are fortunate and pleased to have an excellent panel with us today. you have the full biographies that you picked up upon arrival at. to my right is a policy fellow currently based in new york as a think tank without borders whose mission was to foster public debate on human rights and self-determination in the framework of international law and to my left for middle east

peace and expert on the congressional views towards israel and palestine and israel he thinking as well and she previously was with americans for peace now and served with distinction in the foreign service office. to my left is the acting director of the washington office of the united nations relief and work agency which has approximately 12,500 staff and over 300 installations across the strip that deliver education and mental health and social services and emergency assistance to the refugees. to my extreme right is a fellow at the brookings institution director for middle east policy is taught at georgetown and stanford and indonesia and is

currently writing a book on the grand strategy and domestic origin. then we will be time for questions from you in the audience and we will close at 1:30. let me start with you if you could paint a picture of the current also paint a picture of the flows that are obstructed and how would you describe this sort of situation since the conflict of 2014. i know that there has been a report and amendments to that.

five years ago now, but me start with a brief quote from the report. the population increased around 2.1 million. it's struggling to keep pace. by 2020 coming electricity petitions need to double to meet the demand to the coastal aquifer will be universal and hundreds of new schools will be needed for the overwhelmingly young population. we have 290,000. 86,000 were damaged including 7,000 that were destroyed in 5,000 bu5,000 that nader had ma.

there was severe distress particularly among children and they found virtually 100% of the children in the schools experienced some kind of ptsd. i also mentioned since 2012 the development is going in the wrong direction. i can call you the last few times we've seen a lot more on the streets. the official unemployment is 32.7 and a shocking 67.4% for women and perhaps most troubling, unemployment for the youth 15 to 25 and 60% is disposables and of course electricity. the current is running about 20 to 22 hours a day.

families they have electricity for as long as this session will take place today. we see them getting up all hous of the day when they have electricity. the plans are functioning only 15% of capacity and more than 100 million uighurs abroad in parts are being pumped into the ocean every single day. that is the equivalent of 40 olympic sized swimming pools. just to go back as you mentioned, they put out an update a few weeks ago in the report. this report underscores the projections for 2020 has deteriorated further and faster than anticipated in 2012 and the

per capita decreased the provision of health services continued to decline and the demand for additional help clinics, doctors and hospital beds has not been met. gaza has maintained the standards that adversaries remain as low as four hours per day. reconstruction needs triggered increased construction materials, however access to the material needed to allow the infrastructure basic services to recover has been highly restricted. the question everybody has asked is what can be done at this point. they've been asking all actors including israel and the international community to invest in sustainable development initiatives as much as needed to revitalize the economy and perhaps most importantly to improve the

freedom of movement for equal and goods. and turning to something the humanitarian coordinator said, the alternative would be more isolated and more desperate or devastating installation increase and the prospects for the reconciliation with them the prospects for peace between israel and palestine. first of all, what is to prevent funding situation? is it the main source bear and second, it may be still but maybe that is changing as a contributor what are the current pathways that come through the

panel from the sinai but is getting through? >> i will take them in order. the funding situation as you know this here at this very moment it's a deficit of $65 million the budget of 750 to 15 million per year so it is quite substantial. we are working to make the budget deficit up and we calculated we have roughly a 100 million-dollar deficit we face every year so that is what we need to overcome now and the overall funding for the agency in terms of the others we do have quite a bit from the gulf countries and support from the european union countries.

so the european union itself is usually the number two contributor and then the countries that act to give another 25% and the rest of the oldest the additional 25%, so the third question here, the import you noted there used to be quite a bit and most of them have been closed. they never engaged this was the procurement. from the standpoint we have a very active and coordinated role so the material we need to bring from construction or food items or whatever it may be in order to facilitate so they don't have any problems there. but for the average person, there's many things that could be considered a secondary use.

they can't necessarily. whatever it may be without being able to export the jobs just are not there and be orchids for without the experts. does anybody else have other programs were things they provide directly outside? >> there are others operating subsidies and just because of these activities but for

construction work assistance to people speak t [inaudible] let me thank you. help us understand, walk us through what is going on and why they've been doing the things they are doing are they shifting and how does this play out politically? >> i try to go through a chronological order to give some context to where we are today. a great deal of attention was

given but that was the result of the decision and was taken in the west bank and followed from a number of decisions from the beginning of the year so some of the positions included things like medical supplies and cutting off the salaries of employees in the authority of our present and in the strip weather and the west bank. they are allegedly saying it forms a big part of the budget but the fact is they are focused

on the gaza strip and to increase isolation and pressure on the government within gaza. the next step was to ask for the supply that they give. the combination of these tests resulted in a significant escalation of the crisis. i want to ask why. so there's a number of factors, the local dynamics, regional and international dynamics that have been unfolding for at least the past four years but most notably since 2014 and a hamas and

israel. president trump has already shown signs of wanting to have policies between israel and the palestinians and someone who could provide the deal and there was also coming into the office some dynamics that would change and noticeably between the american allies and islamic extremists and countries that support movements such as the muslim brotherhood. with the american policy under the trump administration, he most likely took the position on the grounds as someone who was

able to implement trumps administration agenda as someone who was able to unify and present a single palestinian voice to the administration and the someone that is able to take strong policies to where the government so that formed a back half of the decision. so that's the sort of international context that is happening. we see that there was a significant opportunity in on the one hand it was quite escalated over the past few years as we just heard they have been severely impacted which meant there were no attacks and the relationship with countries such as iran and saudi arabia were on the rocks and the

emergence of the regime meant hamas was also swept up in the policies of marginalizing the muslim brotherhood in egypt which meant it whe was closed. all these factors together isolated so this presented an opportunity. on the other hand, there was also an increasing effort by the president's rivals to come back into the political establishment so there were discussions that were happening with the backing of egypt and to position himself back into the political establishment. so both coming into power had

the idea of the american administration that would be supportive of some of the policies the president was taking to increase measures that would isolate and possibly weaken the government to be able to come back into the government controlled. and of course what we saw in the crisis with saudi arabia escalations accused of supporting it for the rest organization that it is reflected in some of the dynamics happening in the gaza strip and the challenge to know show is playing in his hands with further weakening so that is the context that the decision happened and of course it was a

decision for several reasons we can talk about now and actually resulted in the counterproductive and the situation we see on the ground now has moved much closer and there is an alliance forming who has now backtracked to reinitiate. >> who is backing? ever close to hamas previously and so on. what is he counting on in terms of support? >> i wouldn't be able to

directly say, put my reading of the situation is that if he was able to present himself as a secular palestinian authority that is able to take control, then he would be able to enhance the countries such as saudi arabia and it might fall into step if he were able to present and demonstrate he is able to keep control of the gaza strip. what has resulted is continuing to support and coming down more strongly than it ever had before so i think egypt was aimed as a country that could fall now

supportive and coming back into power but the important thing to understand in the policy is that in deciding to further increase the isolation, he voted into the case which is that you can increase pressure on the population of close to 2 million people in order to weaken the political sanction or the running government so that is more reprehensible to achieve the political goal and it can also be weekend several times coming back into the gaza strip, what we have seen are several

escalations and it is a reading of the situation as well benefited from the west bank and maintaining the government. so there's a number of factors here. that played into the politics on the palestinian side and maybe a few words about how you see the supporters and so on.

we will benefit. they escalated the situation on the ground between israel and gaza and was open to the agreement as he hoped it would be earlier this year and would have been in jerusalem with the three israeli teenagers. the same element is very much present today. hamas gets a lot as they moved

into protecting in jerusalem. the crisis wasn't hit last month that would have been the point. it would rise [inaudible]

it is an ironic twist. in their leadership the west bank particularly also in the gaza strip so there's an opportunistic alliance for the funding in some of the government responsibilities that they had been trying to shed for years to.

is a political entry point and even though the entry point, it continues the political establishment even though we often think of it as its own problem as marginal anticipated from the establishment. it's the palestinian authority. it is capable of getting anything from israel. their support in the west bank

as well and having said that, there's likely to the other contenders. what is the current israeli discussion and debate about changing the developments in gaza and the area true from. it has troubled relationships. what are the debates from the standoff situation. there is the risk of the war.

it will be disappointing but i'm trying. [inaudible] as we heard earlier what we have all seen this terrible. for many the feeling is that it's about the situation. it's very damaging for israel as well including those in charge of the last round. as usual what's the alternative so we see how to deal with the status quo on the one hand there's widespread desire to

solve the basic problem which is the statement that goes to war every couple of years. it's an unstable situation. the solution from the perspective and also from this perspective would be whoever is controlling the gaza strip and at war with its neighbor. we are here by the way it is worth noting we never assumed they might actually do this, we

won't be renegades, they would assume that is a constant and the question is what every one else might feel. it would be horrendous and different than previous rounds. they were running to the shelters in the middle of the night etc.. it's to help with israel and the

pa. even in the desire now about to cut the electricity support there was a debate in the government with the right-wing that we should not exacerbate the situation. the result is that it will find itself by choice. there was a market for sending in part as a lesson. i was talking about the need not

to press too hard because then it gets into the war that you don't want and then it's following the market easing of things on exports but still very far from lifting so we've had this kind of debate in israel and it's still than the blockade. of th the ones that are more hopeful about peace and that are more prone to help them cooperate are those that are more hawkish because they take the stance.

there is the hope and desire now we are singing quite a different tune with the solution for every possible reason speaking about the position towards the gaza strip i mentioned the five cuts that see themselves as a potential successor building an artificial island to allow them to have an outlet to the world. in this loop that you try to get out of the status quo.

possibly trying to push further the problem from the core you are risking more each time. what is left with? >> they find themselves in this which is not static but as the population of israel. they are also bad for israel. it's the same under israel that is very heavily populated etc., etc..

there comes the responsibility of the gaza strip in the '90s and then later he lost it to hamas and it's someone they know personally very well. they are fighting some of the same enemies. conclude by saying there is a difficult dilemma and i don't think it is that simple. the solution would be to bring them onto the west bank and i think the party should do all they can to try to facilitate

that. there's a difficult long-term short-term dilemma that is not simple and i think it is the possibility of another conflict and the situation and things need to be moved in a direction not just simply jettison accepting hamas. it's not an easy choice. maybe a choice you have to make that it's not an easy one. >> on the short-term issue, why hasn't israel gotten the balance between hamas except it has been

several times in the past. they manage some aspects of the groups so that plays a little bit of a roll into that perhaps containing or managing a situation. why hasn't israel and hamas found a balance that would be in the interest why is it that it's going to the brink and another question i wanted to ask on turkey and turkish relations have gone through a lot of ups and downs and having a lot of ambitions with just a few comments about where the relationship stands.

>> why hasn't it reached where they agree to despise each oth other. i think that was brokered by the europeans and would continue more or less as normal with the presidential guard facilitating. the problem is that it was not stable. they do not pay for most of what happens. second, every time there has been an easing of the blockade in recent years israel is intelligent preparing for the next round we don't see dos a flourishing and that is worth

noting. for example the blockade but they start before the disengagement after the kidnapping of a soldier. they are sure that every time they give anything to hamas they are emboldening him for the next round. they probably still do a lot more than they are doing. second, it isn't completely clear that they speak with one voice so there have been attempts in the past for the cease-fire and a variety of

different interlocutors but even in 2014 when we saw the heavy hand in the west bank. and the vertical wing. and the regional dynamic is important. it is a general islamist group and so it is an appealing alternative.

why should there be a blockade. and second if they are supported out the top priority it isn't something they would do not to mention all the other countries in the region. i will try to be brief. i'm talking too much. the other outliners in the region are complicated but a colleague of mine the situations have come back to some kind of normalcy and the instigation turkey still wants to play an active role than many of the other regimes do. they were very bad trade relations growing and now it's

off from that and it complicates things but by and large what you'rweare seeing is an agreemeo continue as normal through the rhetoric. in short there is not much trust or affinity or belief that he would change that there is a feeling that constructive relations, economic and otherwise are in the benefit of israel and turkey as well so that continues. ..

that was off everybody's screens until we started having more discussion about regarding about to have another war which is kind of striking. i'm old enough to remember a lot of wars and gaza. everyone that this is probably been periods of more than guts and it seems like each time there's a car accident in slow motion and everyone acts as if

no one has agency to do anything as these cars collide or these cars drive into a wall. i think the title of this event says a lot it is gaza reaching a boiling point? is a friend of mine said gaza is not a pot of water and it's also another line. it's also not a person who is warning about their weight for their caloric intake. natan mentioned a friend. i talked to her before coming here today and she said and i'm paraphrasing we have turned gaza we meaning all of us by the way the international community is implicit in this, we have turned it into the largest controlled experiment with human beings in history, testing testing what ie behavior breaking point of 2 million people as pressure increases over time. that is a fundamental challenge

for all of us in this room and would topple plea because if we think about sometimes how we resolved before we get to the point of hey are we about to have another war. i want to start with a positive and its link to how you open the question of which is there is an israeli strategy and i think natan covered this brilliantly. when you look at the israeli approach it's really tactical. it's not strategic partly because nobody has a good idea how to end this in a way where you don't potentially end up with the situation on the border which is an absolute legitimate concern. right now we are framing development of humanitarian and gaza and security one improving other and vice versa which is a very problematic way of setting up this calculus and i think it's fundamentally wrong. that's something where i think

we should be changing that calculus and the other part of bits and this is distinct from the west bank and east jerusalem israel doesn't have a strategic object within the gaza strip the way it does in the west bank. the settlements are gone are the settlements are pretty much given up and they don't see it recidivism tendencies others and their relative space. there's none of that and in that actually offers i would say a ray of hope. there are pragmatic solutions that are available in gaza that are much harder in the west bank if one were looking for those. at this point though we are talking entirely at tactical approach and the international community including the united states has acquiesced to that and in that sense we are all complicit. we are all enablers to a situation where we can see at any given moment that the situation in gaza and the horror

show in gaza has many authors, let's be clear great overarching authority responsibility is addressed and i agree with natan israel has a complicated set of issues to balance. there are arguments for by everyone bears response ability and their observations on all sides but as we look toward the next gaza war which for months now, remember people six months ago saying are we going to have another war in the summer? my goodness if we think there's going to be another war in the summer why are we doing something to a verdict instead of watching the tv seeing things in jerusalem pop up in the entire panel talked about this. you can see how these things evolve. the u.s. deserves enormous credit i believe and this is

something crist talked about for not backing away from its humanitarian side of this. our continued support for unrwa is something we deserve credit. i'm not sure everyone understands how large it is and i'm not sure everyone understands how much political treasure there is against it in terms of congress. you have a constituency in congress and the jewish community in or to carry this is the way the salt this is through the refugee issue. there's really no palestinian refugee issue. they've been gone so long from their homes. the way to solve it is to get rid of unrwa soak the u.n. stopped calling them refugees, to very attract good solution if you want to get rid of a permanent set of issues that i don't know a single palestinian who does so because the u.n. gives them permission but that's been constant pressure for more than a decade. the agents continued the american people are committed in a way which i think is quite laudable. this is not simply humanitarian

crisis and simply brandishing it is not u.s. policy. it says much that they tactical approaches the israeli approach and it's getting worse and worse and worse which is where we are today as we talk about when will be the next gaza war. i was thinking about what i would want to talk about here because again it's been a very long time since anyone has asked me to talk about was that. we are sort of in this box for me talk about gosset. i was there two years ago when i visited unrwa facilities. i'm one of the only people i know who doesn't work for humanitarian agency who goes to gosset produced a very sobering experience. i went up to the hillah talk to people about what i saw in gaza and the response i got was that terrible. until hamas has gone their, there is nothing we can do which i found very predictable and very troubling response in terms

of yes here is what children are going through and here's the security implications for israel of a gaza is perpetually on the verge of breaking down through the m. berman to risks for israel. we put ourselves in this box. for me when i talk about this today and most people know me for the work i do on settlements in jerusalem, i have concluded today that gaza is no longer a separate issue. it's no longer part of your world process. it is a permanent issue and needs to be treated as one. it's an isolated and separated for so long it's no less an tournament issues issue then jerusalem or settlements or refugees. it needs as much attention as those and for those of us who for years said list and gaza will be resolved in the context of a con attending agreement and i will wrap it up.

i don't believe that anymore. i don't think anyone can believe that anymore. there is no solution without gaza so for the israeli right that gives up on the two-state solution it doesn't surprise me we are hearing pragmatic talk. for people who believe that somehow gaza solves the west bank by the demographic pressures on israel again i'm going to say that's a technical and political term i have coined in this venue. you do not get peace and the palestinians without gaza and you don't get a peace agreement on gaza until you start dealing with the realities and that means first and foremost humanitarian realities but it also means no longer is international community as the united states acquiescing to the calculus that has been imposed by the parties i israel and by hamas. this is bigger than them. for years people have said we can't -- i have said for a very

long time i suspect the international community wants peace more than a lot of the parties and maybe all of them at any given moment and i suspect without the pressure and help for the national community they're not going to get past their objections to dealing with each other. i don't know of any other regional conflicts in the world are people who have said you know what bosnia or rwanda the humanitarian side, sorry it's although what's happening but as long as you cancel yourselves together we can do anything. whether you are coming at it from a perspective of security interest whether you're concerned about gosset is cyanide in this ability of egypt and all that ever strictly about the environmental security you still get to the same question which is allowing gaza to simmer whatever you want to do until we get to the next war is morally

abhorrent. it is politically nonsensical and from a security standpoint it's --. >> thank you lara, thank you very much. i welcome back to the question i asked you. this administration, what are you seeing and what are the tea leaves with this administration and what are the tea leaves on the other diplomatic channels that may or may not relate to gaza or gaza as part of a broader process? >> sure. someone recently asked me what is the trump the administration thinking on x and i said that anyone can say what the trump administration is thinking is flat out lying. there is no single voice i could say i talk to this one person political order could be someone political or peer credit. that's to say i have no idea.

i can say i think we are continuing our commitment on the humanitarian side and that is laudable and that is an expenditure clinical capital for which this administrator deserves credit. i will say something is someone who is not a great senate of the administration. i would give some credit which i would say on this they are not much different. i'm gaza they are not much different than the obama administration did this as a sinkhole politically. there are no easy answers available. anything you do is going to tick off israel is going to tick off congress and by the way. >> is that another one? >> i'm sorry. you do this for enough years and you are just going to say what you think. we have set it up that gaza, there is no point of entry from a policy basis for gaza. we set that up in the rules for hamas.

until hamas reforms itself and sends his people to jail is simply not possible. if the rules for engagement are we will not engage until the people lock up leave and say we are sorry there's no place doing gauge. okay fine, you try that. you try it for a lot of years and it didn't work and when i hear discussion on this illustrious panel about the calculations people are making about what's going to weaken whom, i hearken back to you a decade ago sitting in a conference in beirut were hamas was debating who was going to wait longer in who would be in a better position when the other guy was the leader. we have had this game playing for a decade. i was just in ramallah and i asked somebody about the electricity issue and they weren't defending it. they were saying it's basically a failed policy. if we were going to do this we should have done it 10 years

ago. now it's a failed policy. at this point we have been down this road over and over. there's always a little bit difference but now it's it different factor. i've ammar it's going to turn this enough that the athlon hamas calculation fundamentally changes and one person gets to be in charge and we have a new point of entry? i guess we can hope or it. some analysts i find it extremely improbable that outside some serious intervention from the outside world saying you will move this direction. there's an edit that to you if you do. there's a cost to you if you don't, i think we will have the same war, different day was slightly different effects in the same horrific impacts on the ground. >> thank you very much lara. let me now turn to the audience for questions. there are roping microphones.

raise your hand so i can see. the gentleman in the far back. introduce yourself and ask your question. >> i used to travel to gaza regularly and 2013 and 2014 for news reports. my question is about how moss is a terrorist group. the eu has recently ruled to keep hamas on the terror list and there's no possibility that the united states is going to in the near future so my question is to end the gaza blockade is there any specific step like this is a prerequisite to at least for the world to recognize that hamas is not a terrorist group? the two things are related but how closely are the two related? >> thank you.

the gentleman right next to you since the microphone is already in the neighborhood. >> i teach at george washington university. i have a quick question. how well will serious situation impact the issue considering you have russian troops american troops kurdish troops turkish troops and the forces loyal to assad. >> thank you. over here the gentleman in the fifth row, two gentlemen. the gentleman in the red shirt first. let the panelists take note of the questions and we'll come back to you. >> my question is the security cooperation between ids and the security forces of course we know how moss has been there for a while but how safe and how secure is this security

cooperation and? >> the gentleman in the second row. >> there is no blockade. i think it's a myth. they're a very nice situations there but we have 1000 trucks every day with everything that they need. israel only looks at the military stuff. do they want to have an electronic system for missiles? no but if you want to have -- what are the wants of there is a myth. if tomorrow israel opens the orders or egypt opens the borders the situation will not change. >> thank you.

the lady in the third row. >> i have a couple of questions one on the definition of the renegade base. that was her virtu as hamas and i'm wondering what exact that definition is because when we think of israel country that continuously violates international law, destroys infrastructure of gaza and kill civilians etc.. we have to think about what the construction is of a renegade state. secondly it was surprised in this panel but it seems like we are talking about palestine and israel as it they are equal parties in the conflict in its clearly the case obviously that israel has the power to sort of mitigate the conditions that palestinians are facing so i'm kind of curious as to why the comments were tilted in that regard because i think that's a huge oversight. with regard to the u.s.'s role

in funding for example while you said it was laudable i also wonder how does that then work out what the billions of dollars of military foreign aid that the u.s. provides israel and is that counterproductive. lastly in terms of thinking about god send thinking about gaza if there was a hurricane a winter gaza, we are talking about the humanitarian crisis caused by violence. i'm hoping that i can hear from you all as to how we address the humanitarian crisis in that regard. >> thank you. let's go to our panel. we will start with you and go in that direction. any questions you want to respond to. >> i can't read my handwriting and the question that i just wrote down. first of all i want to start in the back because that's a key question the question of hamas and the terrorist groups and other people can talk about, i

think chris can address the whole issue of the mechanism for reconstruction and the limits that are put on dealing with gaza because hamas is in charge. hamas is a terror organization because there is date-based terrorism could would have you believe in terms of israel's relationship with hamas and what it should read and israel does deal with hamas in gaza and let's don't pretend they don't. it's a zero, zero, zero contact with hamas has supported devastating terrorism inside israel and i would argue shooting missiles, shooting rockets into civilian areas is definitionally terrorist activity. that is not resistance. that is not self defense when you were just shooting things up and wondered where they were land and aiming them that is terrorism. that being said the fact that the west bank, the fact that

gaza is under the control of hamas doesn't mean that the entire population of gaza is now guilty of being a terrorist or that it's legitimate or legal or moral to inflict collective punishment. we have been having this discussion since the plc election in mid-2000. hamas won those elections fair and square. i was on the ground. they won them fair and square not because they are holding guns of anybody's head. suddenly the palestinian people deserve whatever they get because hamas which by the ram ram -- by the way ran on the party of change and reform, running against, not running on islamic terrorism but the anticorruption party. obviously they have their agenda as well. 2 million people in gaza essentially the political horizon is erased because hamas is a terrorist organization and

the world will basically throw a little bit here and there and try to keep them. this is a man-made humanitarian crisis. i am not an expert on every conflict in the world. i cannot think of any conflict where the world has essentially said we hate the ruler so we are actually going to abandon the people completely or almost completely. in a conflict where we are supporting by the way one's size military and security perspective. it doesn't hold up as logic and it doesn't hold up as national security for the u.s.. >> the blockade wanted that doesn't happen issues, you said there had been development. can you say more about that and how do you see potential

reconstruction for either? >> i would be happy to. it's quite an impressive arrangement that they have. the problem as i mentioned in our earlier remarks was it's not the imports that are fundamentally the problem. there are challenges and they are fundamentally being worked through. as i said if you can't afford a product you can't buy it. just an example here 2 million people in the gaza strip my organization sees 1 million people in the gaza strip. that's half of the population and w. f. p., we only see red pjs. wf pcs and other 250,000 so we are talking about 1.25 million people out of a population 2 million there provides a on these services. it's not as if there's nothing on the shelf. it's also not just a movement of

goods but specifically more important movement of people. prior to the blockade there were roughly 100,000 who worked in israel. if anybody has been to the era border crossing at seven and they have massive amounts of people crossing the borders, it's an enormous, enormous place. every time i go there there's barely anybody there. part of this is the economy is going to recover there needs to be this exchange a movement not only of goods and people but not only of goods going into goods going out. that's the critical of component. in terms of the reconstruction we have part of her role in the reconstruction of the shelter in gaza. we don't have the full control of that system. the gaza reconstruction mechanism is overseen in part by the u.n.. there's a very tight regime i can tell you that.

struck down where the material goes straight they import of concrete and other materials involves video cameras and we have to certify staff members about where the material is in vote goes up concrete matching that up with the amount of concrete we have requested so it's a very tight regime. those are all done for security reasons for israel. they don't want the materials used for construction to be diverted to other uses. also we see while they're in for structure projects taking place and we do quite a few of them. we do some additional ones that aren't necessarily directly related to refugees in gaza. there's a hesitancy for many donors to invest heavily in infrastructure in gaza. who is going to control it? who's going to run it and run it in the is going to operated make sure sustainable in the long run what happens if there is another

complex? will it be destroyed and what we have to rebuild it again so there's a hesitation on many in the international community under -- addressing the underlying issues. talk about the humanitarian issues and part of that is deployment but again you can't just create jobs. we have the second-largest employer in gaza. we represent 11% of the gdp which is outrageous. so i think how those can be systematically addressed is not going to solve the issue. >> thank you, chris. >> i'd like to try to comment on the question that we were speaking about on the panel. i think it's really important, sorry. i think it's really important here to stepping back and

understanding the broader context in which all of this is happening. it hamas is a terrorist organization with the support that or don't support that in my mind it's a red herring because it's created a situation where everything that is real does towards the gaza strip becomes excusable under it terrorism or radical islamic groups are in a kind of policy that is seen through the prism of fighting terror becomes excusable. so before hamas and gaza there was a plo and it was a haven. when hamas was a terrorist organization it was a renegade state and there are all these terms they keep getting used that appeared to justify a policy that has put in place to maintain gaza as a problematic

enclave that is separate from the rest of the palestinian case. what that is created is a situation where we are not actually talking about conflict resolution. we are not talking about trying to resolve the political drivers of the complex. we are talking about conflict. we say we are going to keep the gaza strip and we talked about the tactical issue in the long-term strategy of within israel the fact that israel has debate internally about whether or not to increase that region of the gaza strip and suffering through some of the security measures. but all of those are operating within the context of palestinian authority and west bank which is committed to security organization and which means security in the west bank while having an authority in the gaza strip that is actually anti-concession and has recused

to recognize israel and suggesting that organization we can keep all of that and manage the palestinian territories without allowing them any harm of unity and without addressing the political drivers. so we can think whatever you want to think about hamas. i personally find many of the policies despicable but that doesn't mean hamas doesn't have legitimate political roles that were called for by the plo before hamas and if hamas were to be defeated now would it need an organization after hamas? ..

>> >> but many people all that

i spoke read this is that a and israel. to occupy the infrastructure so people support the resistance. there is the reason for that. they support the resistance because of the internationally sanctioned. and the palestinian struggle. those will always be there. something about managing cause the. -- in reality there isn't that situation and get in

line with international law and form policy that continues to call for education. some of those horrid my opinion to deal with the palestinian issue that still has international law supported that israel continues to circumvent. >> there is a lot going on but i will not cover everything. province is a technical term it is not a result of determination but a province

that is renegade to be run by rebellious military that is very dramatic. but that would entail very dramatic sanctions still lacks a we're seeing those changes but more important undertone so to call home loss say terrorist organization we're missing the point. but also those other finding themselves and that is

beside the point. so whether not israel hate somebody more that is beside the point. so israel is the stronger party with more responsibility. but it is a terrible mistake. but those decisions have no effect on things. so something about that decision has been different

with a real effect of the lives of millions of people. but that dramatic crisis of people so to quibble about who is interested in what but do you find it this way are not? but that should that be relevant and it is there and has a lot of power . so to those many organizations but we don't deal with them in reality. hospital lot of birds are thrown around with that of us is not exist.

clearly there is a blockade. and then to dave that legal recognition said to do with cuba or others but the judge that ted years of day partial blockade. it is not letting her loss to never it was because even if it is much weaker the u.s. or denmark or anyone with but a neighbor attacked it.

should do a blockade? i think not but because there is no palestinian agency whatsoever that is of crucial question but especially when we look thinking about what happens on the west bank. you are entering a very dangerous period but the possibility of transition or ending with security cooperation is crucial for by very much hope that continues and to cooperate with israel. that has allowed the west bank although it is not

certainly where should be as independent states. >> representing the and acetal the in regard to the crisis are there inter quantifiable aspects of that last for months or years?. >>. >> i present global bridges for humanity and use your

tongue not your gun. but the problem of what is going on the palestine i am sure 100 years from now the question is for those 60 years of negotiation when is that more powerful partner or occupier to realize this cannot go forward by have to live together or die alone. >> after i talk to this

israeli attacks and whenever palestine and gaza strip is attacked they blame hamas is what about the occupational mindset if hamas decides?. >> with that question of occupation so to perceived it is worth unpacking that part of the gaza strip the

border is partially closed. but that is where there is some effective control. saudia would be very cautious in using the word. >> day understand very few minutes you can defend later. >> maybe there are invisible sellers said and no love so that is effective control that is the air and the sea. there is no military but i have seen with the

respective control. this is what it boils down to this is dangerous to use this rhetoric because it weakens the possibility of occupation never ended in a thing would change. for palestinians and also the israelis. when would this really change their mind? when they decide to engage the plo and in 2000 or later. it hasn't done everything it should talk about those negotiations for. so we're arguing about who is right or wrong but again that is not the question.

how that actual situation is of real people. >> i will be quite? and this is where we disagree it isn't just the life but to give them full equality so they're committed to the security coordination to unable to live for maintain a semblance that is to avoid the of occupation of your everyday life whether or not you can study abroad. that is fundamentally inaccurate but that is a

rupture when life was better and people will continue to demand but it is definitely not happening -- happening in that conversation. is and also just the sea and air but those who are born and raised in the gaza strip have to register with the in israel that is a the body and that is another way in which that is occupied. in with those vital commons when will the situation change? i do think have of

my talking the beginning was just that. evolving into a factional zero sum game and then to see the impact of the occupation and then to supporting those governments that are maintaining the occupation within israel and that is actually quite sustainable. for the past 50 years 60 years it is actually very sustainable. so things and not going to change on the ground.

>> want to close by going back to what i said before that and ask to be woven back into the discussion we're talking not whether but when will be the next war in the gaza strip the last five we're talking about when it would explode across the west bank. we had battled low-level intifada but to talk about will most terrorism. but to be a social gaffe. and with human responsibility with the

overwhelming absence not just in the gaza strip. it is more obvious because that is even the pretense of the political rise and it has long been absent i am old enough to remember after hamas took over gaza and as life in the west bank to see the political horizon with those elements constantly surrounding in then entered

into a difficult place and that is a winning strategy. but get outside and talk to people and exciting is it is satisfied in example of what is happening in the west bank. the valley is a much better example of what is happening in the west bank with huge areas with 51 is serious to be effectively be depopulated. you do not need very many senators with an outpost that that is to take over those massive areas and then to suspend the rule of law

fundamentally you asked even if teeeighteen goes away or a viable peace plan some of my best friends in israel on the left are deeply committed to come up that position don't forget about the cradle of judea's some to give up control even if you're not religious unity and the religious connection to have broad. pace they say when i ate could be recognized as a legitimate history that is what they're fighting for. so that story and does not demand perpetual occupation but at the end of the day humanitarian obviously that is what we always get back

to that is what is missing until somebody resurrects fact. [applause] >> of one to think the family foundation for your support so please join me to thank our guests. [applause] [inaudible conversations]

civic to require those ambitious cases with those low hanging through its with those wrongdoers in society and not to be worried you cannot take them on. . >> darr sure he is frustrated to have unified control of congress the one that they're getting something done is attorney general sessions and then he

doesn't like key will be driven now. . >> please turn off your cellphone.