up for a reason, and i try to think about that as we make choices here to make sure that in the future we head the right path for the people of this country and for posterity. >> booktv wants to know what you're reading. send us your summer reading list via twitter @booktv or instagram @book underscore tv or post it to our facebook page, facebook.com/booktv. booktv on c-span2, television for serious readers. >> and now on booktv, we want to introduce you to sam sorbo who's written a book called "they're your kids: an inspirational journey from doubter to self-advocate." are you a teacher? >> i am. >> how did you become a teacher? is. >> i started with my children. well, strangely, no. i started in college because i was a tutor in college.

i tutored calculus. and that's how i learned calculus, actually. but when i started home schooling my kids is when i really became a teacher. and i would say we could all be teachers. but the school system has taught us that you can't teach it unless you have a degree or some sort of approval of some governing body that approves you as the teacher. and that's simply not the case. i think people as they, as they advance in their careers, they understand that they have something to offer, and they become teachers without that sort of approval. it's just that they've reached a certain level of success, and they feel that they have something to offer. but because of that be the i relate it back -- if i relate it back to parents, i think all parents could be teachers of their kids, but they're denied that feeling of capability. and that's why the subtitle is an inspirational journey from self-doubter to hope school advocate -- home school advocate, because i doubted myself.

>> did you start your kids in public school? >> oh, yeah. so my oldest went through second grade, and in second grade the school system, the system really just fail him. they just weren't educating him the way that i thought should be done. and so i brought him -- and it was a hard transition, it is a hard transition for someone who's been publicly educated to think that they mighting do a better job -- they might do a better job than the skills. is what i said is i can do at least as good a job as the school because they're doing a crappy job. i can do a crappy job. [laughter] and so i convinced myself. and kevin, i had to get kevin onboard -- >> kevin sorbo, your husband. >> my husband, yeah. i said, you know, i just want to try it. i'll just try it for the first semester. at christmas we'll reevaluate, we'll see where we are, and we'll decide. because, you know, you can go in and out of public school, you can. it wasn't like we were in a private school and we were going to lose our slot or something.

and i tried it and i loved it. i loved it. it's hard, but it's not harder than sending your kid to school. it's easier than sending your kid to school. or. >> you write in your book that you moved to that neighborhood because of the public school. >> yeah. we moved there because -- and they are good schools. i happen to have, according to the folklore, the second grade class that my son was in was the very worst second grade class that school had ever had. they had, i think, five problem children in the school. they -- in the classroom. it was a shared classroom, so they had two teachers. one -- every other day they had a different teacher. there were just a myriad of issues around that classroom. but we turned in a book report every month for four -- for five months, and after the fifth book report i hadn't received any back, and so i just asked the teacher. and i was in the classroom, i was talking to the teacher

multiple times each week, extended conversations about just stuff, what had happened that day or whatever. i taught art in the classroom. i helped the teacher by grading papers. and yet it still took me asking the question how are his book reports to get the answer, oh, not very good. and i was like, i thought she was joking at first. i'm like, what? she said, no, not very good at all. and every excuse that i came up for her not telling me this, not volunteering this information, not giving me this information just as a teacher to the parent until i asked, every excuse made her look ors worse. look worse. which made me feel bad, because i liked her, you know? you like teachers for different reasons than they're good educators. there are plenty of reasons to like a teacher. and it wasn't that she was a bad educator either, i don't think. but the system fail.

she had 25 kids, she had problem kids. she wasn't there every day, so that division of labor -- he fell through the cracks, i guess. i don't -- i'm not really sure what actually happened, but i just went, you know what? i think i can do better. i think i can do at least that. so what happened was i brought him, i started doing book reports with him every day after school. i wasn't even thinking home school. i was just like, you know what? okay, we've got to step up our game because he's my first. i don't know what a second grader should be writing like. and so i said show me a good book report. she did, and i was blown away because it was, like, gorgeous. the cursive writing was amazing, and my son's writing is like chicken scratch. is every day after school we worked on the book report. and i went, this is probably what home schooling's like. if you're a parent and you do school work with your child, you home school. you just do it at the end of the day when everybody's tired and cranky and hungry. finish.

>> what was the process like for withdrawing him from school, and what are the regulations, if any -- >> oh, every state's different. california is a great state to home school in. there is no withdrawal, there's just non-enrollment. so you just don't enroll, and then you care of the paperwork with the state which is fairly simple. and there are so many organizations that have developed over the past two decades or so. i mean, home schooling three decades ago was like the wild west. it was the new frontier. you know, you really had to search for curriculum, and you really had to do all your research. now you can buy curriculum in a box. i do classical conversations. i love it. for seventh grade and up, you literally get your curriculum in a box. like, it's everything you want. it's everything i want anyway. and so, but there are plenty of other -- there's so many options out there. and then there are options to help you with the paperwork, to

help you figure out the filing requirements in your state or what you need to take care of. so it's pretty, pretty good for us right now. right now. >> you have three children? >> i do. >> all home schooled? >> oh, yeah. >> did the two younger ones ever go to public school? >> >> yeah. so they both went to kindergarten. >> is that a requirement, or is that something you did? >> no, it's something i did just to get them out of the house for a half day just for fun. and i, so, let's see. so i brought shane home for first grade, braden came home for third grade and then tavi went to kindergarten the next year just for fun. because shane had gotten some friends in kindergarten, and i thought it would be fun for tavi. and that was it. it was enough. shane actually didn't really respond well to -- i mean, he was okay, but he's not the social kid s so he really didn't want to be around a bunch of kids.

and, in fact, on several occasions he just didn't want to go to school. and i did all the research, i was concerned that maybe he was being bullied or something. he just, that's not his bag. i can't imagine how many kids are, like, pushed into going into a 25-child classroom, and they're not the social person, they're not the, you know, they don't thrive in that environment. it's too chaotic for them or whatever. >> now, sam sorbo, in your book you write that school bureaucrats view hoe yes nayty as -- homogeneity as a desirable outcome as if education could mimic a fast food franchise. >> yeah. have you read, have you read the mission statement of the department of education? anyway, yes. >> what does it say? >> well, school -- i'd have to look it up, but they've got good alliteration, but that's ability all i can say about it that's positive. it says nothing. it says something about equality.

they're looking for equal outcomes. and school bureaucrats are also looking for basically equal outcomes. and that's cultural. that's where our society is right now. we're very much about equal outcomes. but unfortunately, we live in an exceptional country, and we need to preserve our exceptionality. and the way to do that is not with a one-size-fits-all education system. >> how do your kids feel about home schooling? >> they love it. but i brain warrenned them -- brainwashed them. i'm a parent. parents need to understand that they should be in charge, that it's okay for them to be in charge and that they -- here's the thing. your child's 5, and it's time to go to kindergarten. why? you can't teach them their abcs? you can't teach them to tie -- you taught them to tie their shoes, but all of a sudden they turn 5 or 6, and now it's the job of a professional to teach them what? a, b, c, d, e, f, g, this is a

cat, this is a dog. so at what point, at what point does the parent, is the parent really forced to tap out? and i would argue maybe calculus. maybe for some people that's like, okay, that's above my pay grade, and i don't want to learn it. but what happened with me is when i started home schooling, i realized i kind of wanted to learn the stuff. is i'd never taken logic in school. my son was going into -- i did logic with him, and i learned logic. it was pretty cool. and what we ought to be doing is helping our children become lifelong learners. that's -- especially in this environment, in this economic environment. because the economy has shifted. i don't know if you've noticed, but you no longer get your college degree, get a job, work your way up the ranks, 50 years later retire with a gold watch. that doesn't happen anymore, and people are changing careers i think -- can't remember the statistic, but like three times before the age of 30 or 40. i can't remember. it was, you know, people are changing careers.

how do you change careers if you can't learn? and what are we teaching our kids when we send them to school? the school says this is how you learn. so in order to learn a new career, i have to go back to that? no. you can hack your education online. there's great ted talk by a young, what is he, 14-year-old physicist who, you know, who's discovering things . and he says i hacked my education. i went online. i wanted to learn about this, i looked it up, khan aced cadmy -- khan academy. education is out there now, and there are plenty of opportunities to educate yourself. and there are plenty of opportunities the educate yourself about how to educate your children if you really think that you need to be taught how to educate your children. but i'm here to empower parents that they are the primary educators of their children, and they don't need to cede that role to someone else at the age of 5. >> what was the reaction of your

neighbors, your friends, other parents? >> i live in a community that's fairly home school supportive. so i don't run into a lot of pushback. and nowadays, every time i get on an airplane the flight attendant says to me, your children are so well behaved and they're so polite. and i'm like, yes, they are. you know why? their around me 24/7. -- they're around me 24/7, so i require that they be polite. if i were sending them off to school, i might slack that. i might, you know, it's not that important because i don't spend all that time with them, so they don't have to be that polite. i would let it slide, right? but because they're around me all the time not only did i start requiring please and thank you, because even that, you know, it's tough to get please and thank you. i upped it, i said i want sir and ma'am. i want please, sir, thank you, ma'am. now, i don't get sir and ma'am, but i always get please and thank you.

>> is your husband onboard? is he active in this -- >> oh, yeah, absolutely. >> what does he do for a living? >> he's the gym teacher. [laughter] what does he do for a living? he's hercules. so my husband played hercules on television for seven years, and then he did another show called andromeda, and since then he's been doing film, basically a lot of independent films, some network television. so he's an actor. he travels a lot. that was one of the reasons that i decided to home school. because shortly after the book report incident, we went on a long trip, and then i was really doing the work with the kids every day that i'd brought from the school, and i didn't like the school -- i didn't like the work that they had sent. and i was like this, it's a lot of busy work. and i was just like, you know what? i think i can do better. so, yes, he's onboard, and i have a new book coming out. >> and we'll get to that. >> oh, we're getting to that? okay. >> we're going to get to that.

is there a stigma attached to a home school? >> if there is, it's a good one. [laughter] you know what? people are starting to sort of make their peace with home schooling. and i make a big point in my book, i do not go after teachers. i think teachers are great. i would like to to see more teachers work on a home school model with parents who can't afford the time or don't, or just can't manage to get it done. i would love to see that. i think the system has, is an example of failure. and part of the reason that it's a failed example is because we borrowed it from -- [inaudible] our system is based on the assembly line technique, one size fits all, and at the end you'll have a finished product. but we're dealing with human beings, not cars. and it's based on the prussian model which is a model that's

geared to quash the intellect and limit potential. >> how so? >> well, for instance, steve jobs gave a very well known speech at stanford, commencement speech, and he was booed off the stage because he basically said if you're graduating from college, you'll amount to nothing because you've been taught to be an employee. and so you will never be an entrepreneur. why is the mantra of our school system is college prep and career readiness. because the interest of the government is to raise worker bees for the economy. the interest of the parent is to raise a happy, healthy individual who can provide for themself. who's self-sustaining. that's not necessarily the goal of the government. >> i'm already paying taxes to the local school, i don't have time, i'm not qualified, my kid -- >> good thing you don't have kids. [laughter] >> my kids need the socialization.

some of the arguments against -- >> yeah. in fact, i go through that. i have a whole list of the arguments, because i've heard them. and there are some valid arguments. i'm not saying that this is -- i'm not saying this is one size fits all. i'm saying that it's really probably the best choice out there, and if it's not the best choice out there, you're a very, you're a very unique situation because i don't have patience, is a big one. i believe god gave you your children to teach your patience. i think you need to learn patience. what's the opposite of patience? opposite is anger. when you say i don't have patience, you say i'm sorry for your anger issue. have you seen somebody about that? but there are a lot of arguments against it. look, how did we get here? we were lazy. it was easy. they made it one-stop shopping. you drop your kid off. why would anybody put their child in an institution? i just turned that all on its head.

let's go from the other angle. you've got a 5-year-old. why, why are you thinking of giving him over to an institution? what's the impetus there? >> two full-time working parents. >> yeah. >> single parents. >> okay, single parents. so there's the one sort of area where i recognize this is really a far reach. i know people who have done it. it fends on the age of the -- it depends on the age of the child, it depends on the child's personality. it depends on a lot of things. so maybe home schooling is not available to you. maybe that is an option that's not available to you. right before i got married my husband suffered three strokes. i got a great job shooting a tv commercial for ice cream, one of my very favorite things, it was a national network spot. i wanted it, it was a big deal. i walked in the icu and i said to kevin, i got the job, they want me to ply to new york for three days -- fly to new york for three days, do you want me not to go?

which put him -- i didn't unwittingly put him in the position of admitting that he needed me. we weren't married yet. and he said, no, i don't want you to go. and i faced a choice. the choice of having my career or the choice of having my husband, and i chose my husband the career was taken off the table. that's the choice. so if you, if you're in a position where you have a child and you have to have a job and you don't have the time, i can't fix that. those are circumstances that can't be fixed. and home schooling may not be the option for you. however, i know people who the wife simply didn't want to home school. the husband wanted the children home schooled, so he hired, he hired retired teachers. one for each child. they came in the home every day for four hours, taught the children the curriculum that he designed or that he chose for them. the mom cooked and cleaned and

did her mommy stuff or the social stuff that she wanted to do or the charity outreach or whatever she was doing. never did homework with the kids because they get their work done in less than four hours a day with their teacher. cost him less than a private school which would have been his option, his other option. and his oldest daughter just graduated harvard. i mean, i would never have thought to do that, but that's why like i'm advocating for teachers who are a little maybe disillusioned with the system, you can branch out, and you can start a small business home schooling other parents' children and form your own little co-op. there's no reason -- the other thing that we do is we separate subjects. so math is distinct from history. but it's not, because there's a history to math. there's a history to language. there's a history to to science. there's math many science. there's science in math.

all of these things are intertwined. but what we've done in our school system is we've separated them all. and now with common core we're turning math into magic. so if you're a math -- i'm a mathematician. i love math, and i went to school for engineering. i understand common core, i can figure it out, but to a young child who's just learning the common core method, it looks like imagineic. what they're doing in the schools -- magic. what they're doing in the schools is they're removing the intellect. and if you as a child don't get it, you're stupid. and if you as a parent don't get it, you look stupid to your child. >> sam sorbo to, you mentioned you have another book coming out. >> yes, "teach from love." it's a school-year devotional for families and teachers. so if you're a teacher in the school, because i want to support teachers because i love them, i think they can be some of the greatest people, and they do an amazing thing, and they're working in a broken system.

this is a devotional to teach godly characteristics to our children. we've remove god from our culture where we're actively trying to remove god from our culture, and the fact is that that those characteristics are what we really should be emulating and should be trying for in our children. we want to have a morally principle society, we want to have virtue in our society. we went laws to work. we want laws to work. and if we remove morality, our laws don't work, and we will resolve into tyranny. there's no other way. and so i wrote "teach from love." it just came out. i just got a copy -- i got my copies at home, and my assistant sent me a photo of it, and it dose into bookstores on august 1st. >> and the book we're talking to sam sorbo about is "they're your kids: an inspirational journey from self-doubter to home school advocate." >> samsorbo.com. [laughter] >> you're watching booktv on c-span2. >> booktv is on twitter and

facebook, and we want to hear from you. tweet us, twitter.com/booktv. or post a comment on our facebook page, facebook.com/booktv. [inaudible conversations] >> good afternoon, everyone. my name is liz, i work with the events here, and i would like to welcome you this afternoon to politics & prose. today we'll be hosting willard stern randall for his new book, "unshackling america: how the war of 1812 truly ended the american revolution." just a couple of quick things, now would be a great time to turn off your cell phones. we have c-span booktv here with us, and you don't want to be the person whose phone rings in the recording.