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i will begin with questions and make the floor available to you to ask him, fonder, argue with him, whatever things you have. tonight -- microphone. i will. i will. we are delighted to welcome to what is called memoirs of are formed skin heads. christian is here to shed light on his unlikely path as the son of two hard working italian

immigrants to becoming the leader of the chicago area skin heads when he still a teenager. after leaving the violent movement he was part of during his youth, show less text 00:59:40 unidentified speaker he started a program called life after hate a non-profit helping people to disengage from hate and violent extremism. in 2008, christian decided to share his journey from hate to love in his look and published a book called romantic violence: memoirs of an american skinhead.

following the talk i will ask him a couple questions and then you can engage with him. christian, the floor is yours. [applause] >> thank you very much. to engage. [applause] >> it is a real pleasure to be here don't be distracted by that terrible view outside my name is christian picciolini and i dirty here began 1973 november 43 years ago but 22 years ago in 1995 when i left finally the neo-nazis skinheads that i helped build almost from the very beginning. twenty-two years old at the time but i had already spent eight years every single one of my formative teenagers as part of the neo-nazi skinhead gained but before that i was a relatively normal teenager. i had a thing florida -- for happy days my parents were italian immigrants who came in the '60s and they were often the victims of prejudice them sell so racism is not what i grew up with that was the opposite. we always have different people

of cultures and religions visiting and i became very comfortable with that but because they were immigrants the also had to work very hard in this country. they opened a small beauty shop in chicago in that kept them busy seven days a week sometimes 14 hours a day. i lived in a very italian part of chicago but when i was born they move me to a place that lacked diversity that was a very white suburban areas so i never knew where i fit if i was italian or american because of the traditional culture they kept me in a very close abubble. so i have a lot of struggles growing up with low self-esteem and a no-confidence i was bullied pretty severely because

of my name and i was different also i was very short and there really started to want to be very american in a was tired of sticking out and started to resent my parents for being immigrants and also not being there for me so i felt very bin and buy them so one day when i was going through this search for an identity beyond community and a sense of purpose and that is what every fed the searches for, i had this grievance or self hatred i was standing in an alley smoking a joint in the man drove up in a 1968 firebird and screeches to a halt and got out of the car and looked me in the

eyes and said don't you know that is what the communists and choose what you to? i did not know where a communist was i did not know of a new 86 or friday what the word got silent -- and also meant. i felt powerless i did not have any friends or community so when this man came up to me he promised me paradise and said come with me would not be powerless you will be powerful. you will not be alone i will give to this community and i got very interested. then he told me about the dangers that existed my a community that african-americans were moving and and immigrants were taking jobs and jewish people control the media and

finances i did not quite understand that but two out of three was a bad i would join the group and feel powerful and i started to learn the ideology i didn't have the basis or didn't understand why you is talking about i certainly didn't see those things happening in my neighborhood they claimed were happening but i was lonely and of 14 years old i pledge my allegiance to this man who was the first neo-nazi skinhead singer went from the kid with the hair cut from happy days to one of the first skinheads. as i was involved in this organization started to learn the rhetoric and conspiracy

theories the end they would use your rhetoric to scare us to do harm to other people to stop that from happening. and now look back to say how could i have fallen for that? because now we see the same conspiracy theories and propaganda and i think i could have been smarter than that. the truth was i was. i did not question the propaganda i was fed but

ultimately i chose to swallow it and eventually i let it become a part of me because i wanted to belong so badly with the search of identity and community and purpose. so two years after i was recruited as 16 years old the man who recruited me went to prison for a series of vicious and happiness hate crimes the final was going to the apartment of another skinhead girl who was seen standing at a bus stop with a black man. they went to her apartment, the whole group and a pistol whipped her until she was hidden 1 inch of her life and in the pages swastika of her blood of the

wall they thought she was dead there were sentenced to prison but of but before we that propelled me into a position of leadership. i learned how to recruit, i was fully immersed in to the rhetoric and ideology, is bringing in kids younger than me often it was the bully is so now because there was a full weight of leadership everybody recruited after me now looked to me as what to do and two years prior this power this kid who had no idea how to lead or even have a relationship real-life

because i was shy was suddenly propelled into a leadership position of the first neo-nazi skinhead gain because by this time groups started to pop up all over the country and one thing a realized that music was a powerful recruitment tool also a good vehicle for propaganda source started in 19901 of the first white power skinhead bands so i would use propaganda to teach people to hate and to be proud of something that was manufactured because we said diversity was contributing to the white genocide the more we allowed diversity to take place that white people would bear the

brunt so now of course, i look back and think how ridiculous that was sounding better resonated so to use the fear rhetoric to make them afraid that puts them into action. so this picture from 1991 at a concert in germany and that is me on stage with 4,000 skinheads all over europe. i sing these lyrics that encourage people to commit acts of violence and hurt other people based on the color of their skin. this was the first experience where i recognized the consequences of my words because after this concert these 4,000 skinheads went out to this

beautiful easter firm in town -- east for germantown and basically destroyed the town they walked into shops and booted a and stole beer from the pubs and beat up the townspeople who were german. that did not compute i did not understand why we could say one thing and do another then i started to realize the consequences my words would have but i started to question the ideology and if that was something i was really in tune with because i always had questions in the back of my mind when i heard things that didn't make sense i would not question them but i would have an

internal struggle if i was capable of the things that i was telling people to do but i know now over those eight years i hated other people because i hated myself and i hated my situation so much i was willing to project my own pain on to other people so i didn't have to deal with it myself. when i came back in 1991 from my trip in germany things changed again for me. and that a girl, fell in love and a 19 years old we were married with our first child. when i held my child for the first time it was a bit of magic and i suddenly reconnected with that innocent 14 year-old who

was lost and regained my innocence i started to catch a glimpse of what it meant. and started to shift my priorities my identity, a community, a sense of purpose was no longer as a skinhead whereas the leader but as a father and husband and all i wanted to do was support for family and provide for them so i began to question very aggressively the ideology that i passed along to hundreds or tens of thousands of other people through meetings and my music but that is not what i wanted for my own family i never ask my wife was not a part of the movement to become involved in

never wanted my child to be a part of the movement so i started to question what i was doing. but i got a little confused again and said he to support my family there isn't much else i know but musec so i decided to open a record store in the purpose for me was to stay apart of the movement because it was so difficult to leave despite abandoning that ideology day-by-day it was difficult to leave the community and identity because i had a feeling i had never experienced. so i opened the store to sell white power of music that is all i knew how to do. before the internet very quickly it was 75% of gross revenue people were driving from york and california to buy the music. but trying to be a good business person being greedy or selfish i

decided i wouldn't just sell white power of music but other music / woodstock hip-hop and heavy-metal so the customers that came to buy the other music even though they knew who i was showed me compassion and in fact, they showed me compassion when i least deserved from. to first i was very standoffish show is happy to except their money if they had a conversation it was short and i did not want to engage but they kept coming back and every time the conversations were little more personal so one day when a black teenager caveman he was upset he

said his mother was diagnosed with cancer suddenly i could connect with him and understand how he felt because my grandmother was diagnosed with cancer just before that when i saw the gay couple loving and holding their son that was the same love that i felt for my own son. sova conversations got to be more personal and started to realize we have more similarities than differences and what we had was superficial we all have the need for love and acceptance and success to support our families. those are the fundamental need to be all shared by all these differences i have magnified to

separate us from them were superficial and inconsequential it didn't matter in the grand scheme of things. we were human beings and shared these experiences and i am thankful because that is the first time i allowed myself because before that they were monsters server pager cockroaches i kept as much demonization out of it as possible because that is what the movement was about about, blaming somebody else for the problems that existed rather than reflecting internally if you were the contribution to the problem or bleeding that invisible person for everything

going wrong in your life without actually knowing those people in one i begin to meet them i started to realize there was nothing to hate. it did not match what was in my head. now i lost my ego and fear and i was emotionally connected that everything crashed. highlife fell apart. would have left the movement close the store and because there's so much revenue it could not sustain the store i've lost my livelihood also my family and my community a bill to over eight years. my wife and children left me because i did not pay enough attention i did not have a great

relationship with my parents even though they tried so i lost everything per car renter period of five years 1999 were almost every morning i woke up and contemplated taking wildlife because i did not understand exactly what i was not feeling better because they treated others with respect and showing compassion but still dying inside. then a friend of mine said you have to change something. i don't want you to die. i said what you suggest? there is a job that a company called the ibm and to be to apply. i said i have full tattoos i got kicked out of all high-school is an average college in there is no way they would hire me. she said just try. it is the entry level position. i will vouch for you. so i wrote my first trip resonate and i lied. and i got the job. the end of the first day i am

has millions of customers but on my first day where did they put me? my old high school to install computers for the school district and i was terrified. now a grown man and like my first day of school i did not know how to change my parents because they knew the minute i would walk-in they would say get out. of course, with in the first five minutes i see the old black security guard that i got in a fist fight with that got me kicked out. call that's fate your destiny or karma but i was so scared and i had never been so scared in my life.

i was shaking i did not know what to do but i would chase him to of the party and i am probably not the best move. [laughter] but when i found him getting into his car i tapped him on the shoulder and when he recognized me he took a step back in fear. and i knew i had to do something i could only think to say i'm sorry. he stuck out his hand and i shook it and we embraced. pretty possible be cried. and he made the promise of a tel my story to other people but because you recognize what i had gone through and that same struggle was not unique to me but what every young vulnerable

person goes through and those lessons that i learned could be less than some other people could learn a and maybe he had intuition about way other people may join isis because there are parallel reasons why people join gangs or groups of hate or travel to syria to fight for a cause they don't understand. or that does not make a lot of sense. the parallels we are searching for identity and a sense of purpose with a lot of disenfranchised and marginalized young people and older people in this world a lot of people searching for answers. lot of confusion and it is very

easy for a recruiter to play something in your view that tries to solve those problems for you by blaming somebody else. so i decided because it was so hard for me i would write a book and take this man's advice and tell my story to be 10 years but i finally did it and it really is a cautionary tale for young people who were searching for something. in 2010 co-founded an organization called life after hate with the purpose to help people go through that transition with they are scared to leave these movements because of the it kennedy and community

and the purpose they may not have. and we help them transition out of fact not by battling the ideological or arguing warda beating because that just polarizes them further just with our political climate that we listen for the pot holes. so if we think of the far right to or hate groups we think of skinheads alien to militia and kkk and they still exists but not what they used to be. this movement has gone from boots to suits purpose is no surprise 30 years ago we had a concept called leaderless resistance where the bull was we recognize reverse carrying away

the swastika and the shaved head we would not do that but it grow out the hair and not get a tattoo but go to university and get jobs of law-enforcement and run for office. here we are 30 years later in even i was skeptical about 30 years ago we're starting to see that happening the metastasizing of that cancer. they are smart, they'll learn how to massage the message but the ideology is the same based on fear. so because of the internet and it is a place to or marginalized can find their community in building an identity if they do have one in real-life because of

the platform that used to look like this, now looks like this. to your daughters or grandkids or neighbors if they're not giving a salute you probably were not know that they were involved with their getting younger and younger. if we looked at this to say should be worried about these young kids? yes. because the product of this internet radicalization is the result of somebody who walks into a church inverters nine people based on the color of their skin. or alexander who walks into a mosque to kill people. or james jackson who came here to york in march murdering an

african-american with this war because he was trying to discourage people from interracial relationships. these are all products of the internet propaganda and the game has changed. and i was recruited you got a book and invited to a meeting and hung out to was very social. now it is very virtual. and the scary thing that is where the marginalized young people hang out there looking for answers by people with very selfish mission. so we decided to do is to look, line as well so we launched a program called exit usa to help people disengage from hate

groups and what i said earlier

we currently have a private network online that has close to 100 formers in it, who on some days will talk about cat memes and post your rated joke then the internet but some come in and admit that it were sexually abuses or their son committed suicide that morning, and we rally. because we understand even other. we understand where we came from. and we help each other through this thing called life. we've been very successful with that. i would say over -- since we launched the program in 2015 --

i have to say hi to tony in the background, our board chair. he happened to be in new york at the same tome. toneis also a former, and it's good to have him here. we have helped people disengage and start good lives, people going on to get their ph.ds, people who are teachers, people who for the first time, because they've been able to talk about this, have been able to work through the issues that have broken them for many years. very proud of that. i just want to talk about some of the types of thing -- things we see. this young girl, call her. >> 17 years old from florida. her parents contacted us bass they were concerned she was making neonazi prop began to videos on youtube. also dating a 23-year-old boy from idaho. some is in florida. who was recruiting her, has written the scripts for the videos and had become her virtual boyfriend. well, after speaking to the parents and get a little

information i did my homework before i went in to speak with this girl, and i realized that this guy was not a 23-year-old boy from idaho. in fact he was a 37-year-old man from moscow. not only was he doing its is to girl. he was doing it to 12 other girl at the same time. he would become their virtual boyfriends and they would fall in love with them. he would send this videos and photos from online and send it to them and convince them to send compromising videos, and when they decided they didn't want to make video or wanted leave the movement, he would blackmail them. that's happening quite a bit online. i also want to talk -- call him john. a man, 31-year-old man from buffalo, wounded military vet, who was an islamophobe like i've never seen before.

i talked to him. he reached tout me after reading my book and said i've got some questions some things i don't agree with you're talking about. would love to talk to you. said, of course, let's talk. we talked for several weeks. one day, clear to me he didn't like muslims and one day he said, -- i was walking my daughter and my dog in the park, and i saw a muslim man praying, and it took everything in me to not go up to him and kick him in the face when he was on the ground. said, okay, john, i'm coming to buffalo and i flew out the next day. and we sat and talked, and one thief first questions asked him was, have you ever met a muslim person before? and he said, no. why would i want to do that? they're evil. i don't want anything to do with them, hate them, they're the devil. said, okay. so i excused myself and i went to the bathroom and i got my phone out and googled the local mosque and called and i spoke to

the imam, and i said, i have a gentleman here who is a christian who would love to learn more about your religion. would you mind if we stopped by? and he said, well, yes, of course, please stop by. but, know i only have 15 minutes because i'm presenting for my prayer service. said we're on our way. we get the car and i said let's go get some lunch, and halfway there i said we have to stop somewhere before we get lunch, and when i told him all he wanted to do was stop, turn around, throw up. i said i don't care if you throw up go ahead and throw up. it's a rental car, but we're going. i flew to buffalo and the least you can do is just try. so we went to the mosque and i knocked on the door, and of course the imam answered and said i have ten minutes, please come in. we can talk briefly. three hours later, after talking and hugging and crying and realizing all the similarities that we had, we left.

i'm happy to say that after a lot of work, john and the imam are now very good friends and they good out dinner every friday. it's the disconnection we have. we're so afraid of what we think we don't understand that we want to push it away, and often time wed push its away so far it actually turns into violence. we have two realitiness this world ask there are not enough bridges crossing the two realities. we have to let go of the irrational fear and the unconscious bias we have. letting good of our ego and being vulnerable some building the bridges to the people we claim we hate because the truth is, most people that i've met that were part of these moms have never, ever, in their lives had a meaningful interaction with the people they claimed to

hate. i haven't. the people we work will have not. when you ask these people, why did you join them? they said i wanted to belong to something. once you join you have to give up everything else that is important in your life, and it's hard to go back. life after hate hopes to be that new family, that positive gang, that support network, and after we make people more rye sellent, it's amaze -- resilient, it's amazing, without arguing ideologically with them, the hate falls away. now they're more resilient, more self-sufficient, more self-confident. have the tools and training to compete and there's no reason to blame somebody else. there's no reason to be afraid of that other. and if you pair that with the immersion i do where i introduce a holocaust denier to a holocaust survivor, or an islamophobe to an imam, that's the connection that we need.

all across the world there are people like me, formers, people who have dedicated their lives to helping dismantle what they once built. to helping build those bridges. and i'm very happy to be here to tell you about the story. it's a real honor to be here, abe. it's a pleasure to be here with you, and in this wonderful museum that tells a great story. thank you for listening to my story. i just want to give you one challenge before i leave today. i would like for you to leave today or tomorrow and hopefully every day, find somebody that you think doesn't deserve your compassion and give today them because chances are they're the ones who need it the most. thank you very much. [applause] >> okay. i think we'll talk for a little bit.

>> are we okay? christian, thank you. >> thank you. >> it's very hard for us to really understand to the journey you have taken, and at the same time it's going to be difficult for you to try to explain it to us, and so we thank you because every time you tell it, you live it again. you experience it again. but it's for a purpose. so, with great admiration and respect, for the courage, i'm a little bit confused. what is the problem? is it ignorance?

is it ideology? is it dysfunction? and if we as a society need to address it, where do we start? now, your last sentence sort of answered my question but i'm not sure. but is it as simple as bullying? being wanted to be -- social dysfunction? and, therefore, everybody who is in a situation of a social dysfunction situation, however you define it, are they also susceptible to be bigots to turn to violence? there are -- boy, that audience is huge. huge. or is its ignorance? >> you yuge?

>> uo ge. or is it ignorance? my god -- i spent a lifetime dealing with these issues, and i'm not sure we are right listening to you now. maybe we targeted the wrong thing? yeah, we argue, we need to educate, we need to sensitize, we need love and all that, but we were preoccupied with the bigots, with the idealoguing to expose them to put a price and a consequence on their bigotry. as i listen to you, christian, our efforts should be at their potential victims. so where do we set our priorities? >> yeah. thank you for that. i think that it's very hard to give a black and white answer to a very complex problem but i'll do my best.

really do believe that hatred is born of ignorance, that fear is a father and isolation is its mother, when we fear what we don't understand and never have the opportunity to connect with it, that sometimes turns into hate. think really what is underneath that is a lack of opportunity, and this is not -- i'm not playing like identity politics or anything like that, there's just a lack of opportunity for outcome people in this country, whether in the inner cities or in rural america, and i can tell you that standing in that alley at 14 years old, had somebody pulled up in a car and said you're a good artist, would you like to play guitar, or want to play some baseball? i know some semi pro baseball players that would want to hang out, i would have done that in a heartbeat. i was angry and i found myself. theying to people who were -- attaching myself to people who

are angrier than me. it was a vehicle. i do not believe ideology is not a driver in violent extremism. it's the result -- it's the vehicle. it's that sense of purpose or that search for purpose, that search for expiated that search for community, that drives people to those things and the ideology and the grievance and the trauma or whatever they're experiencing is the catalyst and ideology this vehicle for thatment i found the angriest people could i find so i could be angry, too. i think if we're going to solve this problem, people ask me all the time, how do we solve racism? i said, i don't know. if i knew i'd win a nobel peace prize. but we have the ability to affect the people closest to us, our family, friends, loved ones. to really just show them

compassion and be the message. i think to people we don't know, compassion is very important, and empathy, being able to put yourself in their shoes and listen to them when the say really ugly things, but to listen underneath that to why they're saying those ugly things. and finding common ground and starting from that point, instead of starting from complete opposites, i think is where we need to be. because while we hate to admit it, everybody in here has something in common with a neonazi. we all need to be loved, we all need money to survive and support our family. a lot of thing wes have in common and if we can start there and build out from there, then maybe we'll be able to build the bridges. >> somebody dish think somebody once did this experiment, took normal person, and a bigoted person, and closed them up in a container, and asked them to

bring only one thing which was a photograph of their family, and though the sis was that what -- the thesis was when waugh talk about your wife and child, that regardless of where the came from or felt about each other, if the only thing that was left that they indiana common was family, that it would reduce the level of animosity, et cetera. i don't remember how it worked out, but on that premise, and what you're talking about, is compassion. your last plea, which was so simple, which basically said to all of us, you want to begin the fight? be compassionate to somebody you don't know or even somebody that you may have an antipathy to. so, we're talking about people to people.

now we live in a world of -- and if you don't talk to people, how do you exercise compassion? how do you -- so we have seen in our lifetime we destroyed privacy, we're on the way to destroying civility. how do you fight this miracle with such unintended consequences of undermining the values -- the ability for people to talk to each other. you can't talk to each other. this becomes the substitute for engaging that you're talking about. >> every person in this room probably walked past a thousand people coming here today. those thousand people also probably live online, maybe some of them are unfortunate enough to do that. but the truth is, we do come in contact with people all the time and we do spend a lot of our time online, but we also

interact with people at work, and at the grocery store, and walking from the train station, and those are the opportunities i think that can make up for that lack of connection in a place that is supposed to connect us more, actually maybe doing the opposite. creating more of a porlarization. >> your saying despite that, to make a differs. >> i plan to go back to my hotel room and read my e-mail but before that i'll pass thousand people that i -- >> may never get to your hotel room, though. i have two more questions. one is a more delicate question in terms of -- truck about moving away from the jack boots, skinheads, swastikas, to the suits, and if you put everything together that you talked about,

this infrastructure, this anger, this -- the frustration, this anger this, alienation, we just experienced an election which on all side pushed all of these buttons. is our democracy in danger? >> i believe so. i believe that our understanding of democracy is shifting. it's changing, because of things that happened. be experienced somebody that no in our lifetime has ever seen, and i think we have to now really understand what democracy is. a lot -- >> fragile? >> very fragile. we're a baby compared to the world. the united states -- >> greece, not such a great model. >> no. we're still trying to figure things out. we have never done it right, never. right? we have done a lot of things right but never done it completely right.

for people who look back and say we stand for whats we were founded on. i don't fully agree with that because part of that was slavery and part of that was this class system. but die believe in american ideals. i do believe that we are built -- i think when you go back, ronald reagan said you can go to japan and you'll never be japanese, you can go to england and you'll never be englishing but you can come to america and you would we mesh no, matter who you are and that's true. that's to me the democratic ideals that everybody has a voice, an equal voice. >> without any question? >> what's that? oh, yeah, i think it's always been in question. >> never admit it. >> we were happy -- we had conversation earlier and you made a great analogy, racism all existinged in our country, donald trump didn't invent it. don't even know he --

>> he's not a bigot north racist, not an anti-semitismite. >> he legitimatized it in our country what was these kind of smoldering little fires that always existed, and on election day that bucket of gasoline, he kicked it over and ignites all of them. >> broke taboos that protected our civil society went almost had a contract with each other. you want to be a bigot? you can be a bigot. constitution guarantees you the right to be a bigot in your heart, your head, but don't act it out. if you act it out you pay price. he came and broke all the taboos and he -- we were in your way and my way and the lesson wes try to teach in this museum, we try to explain to people that our society is based upon

certain understandings -- political correctness is not a crime. you have to keep the hate you experience, would say in the sewers, and we through laws and education and sensitivity and through your experiences we put them into sewers and put the cover on the sewers. this last election removed that cover, and now we have to find ways to put the cover back on. but he didn't create it. it was there. >> i want to invite them out and have coffee with them and talk to them and i want to listen and understand why they're living in the sewers, because there's a reason. everybody -- it's nuanced. could never speak nor person in

rural america who lost the factory and is willing to forgive the awful things that he said because they have to feed their family. i'm not saying that's right. i'm not saying that -- the ideal situation but we need to listen -- >> it's not your fault but maybe i can fix it. >> right i think we all contribute to it. think we all to some degree still have unconscious bias, and it's as simple as crossing the street if you see anybody walking down that looks threatening, and this is something we deal with and have to accept, and -- listen, when you have the far left and the far right at odd with each other, and her to extreme they become, thea that circle, eventually they will meet and become the same thing. the last -- the last thing we want to do is opposition to those hateful ideals is become hateful ourselves.

that's the last thing we want to do. in fact we don't want to do it at all because that is not going to help us. what we need do is find it within ourselves to say, your thoughts are ugly, what you do is very ugly, how can we find a way to connect so that i can share my experiences with you without debating you, without pushing my ideas on me, without prescribing the solution to you? how can we sit down and humanize each other because there's not a whole lot of work that needs to happen. once that humanization happens, there's already a connection there. and you build from that. >> i have a final question before we open it up. we both come out of at least now, a tradition -- i guess maybe even then -- of freedom of speech. venerating it, applauding it, embracing it, support its, encouraging it.

i'm not sure where either one of us are 100% absolutists. think we all -- we certainly accept the concept, yelling fire in a theater is not protect. your experience, has that changed your appreciation, your perception, your value, of freedom of speech? you saw that hate caused violence and death. you engaged in it. does society need to protect itself from the christian that was? >> i believe in freedom of speech but i also believe freedom of speech is not free of consequences. so while you may have the right to say whatever you want, if what you say or what you do affects somebody else

negatively, you must be health held accountable for that. i believe that. >> that's basically it. thank you. the floor is yours. yes, ma'am. >> i have a can he. >> you need a microphone. >> i'll speak loudly. >> they're recording it. >> wanted to know how the other people that you were skinhead with reacted when you left and did the pressure you or treat will you badly or were you able to humanize them in some way and bring some of them along with you? what happened with those -- >> a good question. some came along later. once i was able to kind of work through myself. was able to reach back out to them and connect with them and pull them out. otherwise, i couldn't have been more a race traitor, turncoat, somebody that they wanted to hurt. and it still continues, still

receive, even 22 years later, death threats and threats against my family, but i can tell you this. there was one point in my life, from the time i was 14 until i was 22, that it very blindly was willing to give my life for something that it didn't really understand or know anything about. you can bet your ass i'll do that now when i know i'm doing something right. i planted a lot of seeds of hate in those days and 22 years later i'm still pulling up the weeds sprouting from those seeds. so not 0 only am i filling potholes that deviatate from from their original path but i'm somewhat of a gardener. it's part of the business case, be hit bay bus, or by the one train falling on the tracks, but i know i'm living my passion, i know i'm -- >> go to penn. it's safe. >> this is what i minute to do because i'm one of very few people in the world who has this

experience this, unique knowledge and the will to be able to help people and put myself into sometimes very uncomfortable situations, but i also know it's my duty because i have that nothings do what i do. -- i have that information to do what i do. >> the man the back. yes, sir. >> hi. i read your book. it was fascinating and infuriating. i grew up in north georgia, near marry yet attachment was in the -- marietta. was in the punk scene. we always called this the bad old days, go to a show and there would be a thousand people there and 100 skinhead intimidating the entire crowd. dozens of nazi gangs and klan groups. and we're seeing a big resurgence in white nationalist organizing, here in new york two rock against communism gangs in new york, attacking people in

bars, and i really appreciate the work you do with formers and getting people out. the exit programs are important but how do you think that people should intervene with far rights -- it's in full greer your it'sing for people to spin out because of personal issues or the movement has exhausted itself and people are looking for the next thing. how do you suggest people intervene with far right movement inside full swing? >> sure. the last part of your statement is partly true. we do retroactively wait for people to come to us, but the bystanders are also pointing out people that don't necessarily want to leave these movements and we also engage with them, too. so not just people who have an excuse to leave. that's part of my answer, is one, one, understand this isn't full swing. this is something that is completely come up to the top again, it has momentum, it is effectively recruiting hundreds

of thousands of young people in this country and abroads. probably just ascertain rescuer if not more dangerous in europe, because they there is a since after historical nationalism there. and we need to speak up when we see it. we need to not be afraid to speak up but also know where to draw the line to where that become answers ideologyol battle. at 18 if you told my i was wrong or punched me in the face in a rally in an interview or cancel meds gym membership or anything happen to the people in altright today i would have come back with a gun. it wouldn't have deterred me. wouldn't have changed who i was. so, we have to find just a way to connect with the people that are sometimes the ugliest people around. i know it's not for everybody. i know it's not something -- there are groups on the left

that are variants racist that try to solve it with violence, and it's see happening is the right becomes more violent and growing because now they're feeling more marginalized and they're using that as am mission to grow. when i see nazi walking down the street, any first instinct is i probably want to punch them, too, but i know that's not effective. wouldn't have ben effective for me for the thousands of people we work with. so we have to find a way -- i know this is not a popular idea. we have to find a way to feel the empathy for them and find a way to show them compassion because almost to a one every person we week with will tell you because they changed because something they didn't expect it from. showed them compassion when the least deserved it. >> then you have isis. i don't think they fit that category.

one level of come. passion -- what level of compassion would work there. >> would work for size supporter, people becoming recallingize recallized. this is a battle for good and evil. 99% of us live in the middle there. there are definitely evil people in this world, definitely very, very good people. most of us we go back and forth, depending on the day, depending on the situation, depending on the mood. we need to know nat people can change, they can come over to the good side. they just need to be exposed. >> lady in the blue jacket. >> how are you kids doing? what happened to them and what is doing in your personal police

officer and have you ever thought bet getting into politics. >> any little boys are now 24 and 22. and they're amazing human beings, who i have a wonderful relationship with as well as my parents. my mother does call me too much. but she hasn't figured out how to text message yet so i think i'm okay for a little while. she called me literally a half hour before i was going to sit here. she said what are you doing? i said not now, mom. i have a wonderful relationship with my family. once i was able to forgive myself eventually, i became a better father and a better husband and a better friend and a better employee and a better human being, i'm not going to rule out chicago mayor for my future. you never know. >> yeah. [inaudible question] >> -- tried to get you sooner than you did or how was their

reaction when you were involved all these years with it? that was my question. >> it took my parents a about a year to figure out what was involved in. they thought he's just doing kid stuff. i want real dish was hiding eight lot the first year. once they figured out out, they were terrified. they were concerned about my safety. they didn't understand. even one point where in i my mom, bless her heart, said this hitler guy why don't you like him. go for somebody like al capone, she would have tried anything fob get me away from what was involved. in i have to tell you, thanks to my parents i'm here today because they never gave up on me, and -- it's the white house calling. >> not this white house. >> i'm very grateful for the fact that my parents didn't give up on me. they never gave up. even when i didn't have a good relationship and wanted nothing

to do with. the because i thoughts, why can't you understand what i'm telling you? i'm trying to save you. really thought i was saving the world. if they would have begun up on me issue don't know i would be here now. >> right behind you. >> how do you propose that we, as a nation, get rid of the hate because of somebody like trump who encourages and thinks it's okay to want to punch that person in the face and how does that make right? that's huge. when we have a president that it is such an idiot, he can't figure out that he is still in the middle east when he is in israel. what do you do with that? >> you're way off the subject but, okay. >> we vote. we vote. we didn't enough. we didn't mobilize enough. [inaudible question] >> oh, let's talk outside in the

hallway. we could talk for hours on the subject. think we need to understand we live in a broken society, and we have a lot of things to fix, and that things we kept in the suer and put the lid on, we need to recognize that they exist and not keep them in the sewer, because if they're in the sewer they will grow, fester and they will eventually come out of the suer sewer and start to infect other people. we need to be not afraid to deal with the awkward, very tough conversations. this potentially could be a very big reset for us, to realize that this still exists. believe it or not people thought we were living in a post racial society. you can ask the people of color in this room if that exists and they would tell you, no. never lived in the a post racial society. that's the truth. >> christian, i'm just thinking,

sounds so wonderful. take them out of the sewers and embrace them. if you had embraced -- gotten up one morning, had this revelation, came into group of followers and ten then embrace them, they would have punched yeah, could have even killed you, because they would have suspected something horrific, et cetera, et cetera, which they couldn't deal with. so, i'm not sure dish think we should all -- it's one thing to reach out to the bus driver, to the -- it's quite another -- we're talking about people who are bigoted, by belief, by profession. they may have gone the route that you went through, but -- so, to spend time going to the sewers, i'd rather we spend time in changing our society, which

removes bullying, which removes unemployment, which teaches respect, because if we better everything on top of the sewer, the sewer, even if they come out, will have nobody to recruit. >> what we do with life after hate is very much like dr. jonas salk treated polio. we treat nose who are sick through intervention, but we also know that in order to keep other people from being sick we have to inoculate the population from that disease. so there's prevention. so what you're talking about is prevention. i absolutely wholeheartedly believe in that. if we don't start to bring -- >> take away the victims. >> i think if we don't bring opportunity the toe the people we need it the most we'll continue to have this problem, because really going down through those departments where i was -- depths where i was, was

a self-hate tread thing. how ick hurt a people more than i feel hurt myself. so i think we do have to deal with the trauma and with the -- tony taught me this -- the toxic shame that people have and equip them at a young age to be more inclusive, to be more understanding to be more seasoning of diversity and of just other people in general. it's interesting, i was in montana a couple weeks oaks, spoke in white fish, montana, which had a terrible situation there. i didn't see one person of color the whole time i was in the state. i was there for six days. i said, who do you guys hate here? right? like, oh, native americans. they're number one because that's what hey have. there's always somebody to hate. if we're marginalized and disconnected from each other it doesn't matter who the other

person is, black, white, brown, green, there's always somebody to hate. but i over in that we can get past that because as unfortunate and as terrible as 9/11 was, the one day that i saw america unified and didn't matter who you were, where you came from, it was september 12th, and that to me gave me hope for just minute. but i know that we can get back there. >> two here and one the balcony and then we'll wind it up. >> thank you for your story. i'm going to buy your book and read it, fascinating, and your message is as well. my question is, based upon your experience and the examples you brought up, seems like your organization and your efforts grounded more toward white supremacists. is there any outreach, there are

any efforts that you guys are doing for to name an example, muslim extremists, and percentage-wise, you know, how much of your efforts are -- have been changed up to that point? >> that's a good question. i tend to like to use the word isis-inspired terrorist because they don't reflect any muslim ideals. we focus on the far right because that's our background. however, i also know that what we do transfers over to gangs, transfers over to isis-inspired extremors jihaddists, and to left wings extremist as well. we have -- we do have a very large network of former jihaddist that we work with but i personally have also worked with people -- when i was be n

bell jump, very -- bellum, a man reached out to one of the municipalities where i was speaking in, and he was a return foreign fighter from syria, had done his prison time and now was trying to reintegrate and was having a really hard timing into doing that because he couldn't talk to the people in his community because some of those people thoughts he was traitsor. he couldn't talk to the community because some of them didn't want to associate with him because they thought if i am seen talking to him the authority mood think i'm a terrorist. he really had no network, and he sought me out and said i'd love to speak to this man. we mutt brussels and walked around and spent three hours, seems to be the magic number for some reason weapon spent three hours together, and our stories were so strikingly parallel, it was mind-blowing. both of-under parents were immigrants. they both settled in areas where

people weren't really friendly to immigrants. his brother had been killed in syria. my brother was murdered after i left the movement. we struggled with that identity and that loss of community and that sense of purpose because we both really believed what we were doing at the time was the rich chows -- righteous thing to do and we were saving the world and didn't know why people couldn't understand that. so i do think that some day in our future, when we have the ability to scale in that direction, we would like to offer our services, or at least partner with organizations that can over those maybe culturally pick services, but i do believe that fundamentally, opportunity and finding positive of news for the expiated community are the best dui go -- the identity and communities are the best way to go. >> the most important question for me to know is did pontiac really make a firebird in 1968?

just kidding. i love facebook. go on it all the time. whenever time i have, i really enjoy it. i like to connect with my friends and a lot of interesting and fun things to see. one day, somebody posted something about the rothchilds. identity heard this him in throughout my life. don't know anything about them. but for that one moment, i decided to just -- who are these people? so i wrote the name in the search box, and it must have been some kind of algorithm because all these other sites came up and they were very subtle. they didn't seem to have, like, we hate you jews. there was something about it that wasn't -- pardon the phrase -- wasn't quite kosher. my question to you is, what kind

of -- because you mentioned how subtle this movement is. what are some words that even somebody -- an experienced facebook person like myself should look out for? >> now we're talking my language. yes. so first of all issue want to touch on your topic of allege go richmond -- al go ash $go rhythms 'when you're googling this, algorithms that act as a recommendation just like when you go to amazon and you buy pampers diapers its would say you should buy hugies. news is the same way. when you start reading these fake news stories, these propaganda stories, it will keep recommending them to you because it thinks that's what you want. the danger in that is you go down into a silo, into a bubble,

into your own reality, with very little crossover. the happens on both the left and right. this is not exclusive to neo-nazis. and it's so hard to distinguish what is real news, what is prop beganda, affection news, parody. we have lost our sense of credit tall -- critical thinking because we rye loan to powers that be. now to talk about the dog whistles they use or the subtle rebranding of things they use when they're really talking about things, when i hear i, know exactly what they're talking about. they use the terms globalization and the globalists these dies really describe kind of like the international bank centers jewish controlled finances. that's real where what they're talking -- really what they're talking about. they will -- they have become very good at massaging their

message so they're not saying jews control the immediata. -- the media. they're call it the liberal immediata. they're conversations that trump ran on election day where the star of david was used next to a picture of hillary clinton, and when he was -- when the voiceover was talking about the globalists who was pictures of george sorrows and famous -- prominent jewish people. when i saw the video the first thing thought this is a white power video wife. have made this 30 years ago and could have written the speeches. they've gotten really good at massaging the message. they've to end it down so that it's palateddable to average person. if you go to average american assists in the south and say, take the swastika flag and put it on your wall, whoa, that's

antiamericanment but give them a confederate flag or something else, they say, i hate black people. i religion hang that on my wall. so they've -- i'll hang that on my wall. so they've gotten really good at marking and packaging. the suits, they still have the same haircuts and the same suits. it's just progression, metastasizing into something that is more easily palatable for the average american who has a legitimate grievance about something in their life that is now willing to blame somebody else or put aside and not pay attention to the misogynistic comments or the racist comments or anti-immigrant comments because i have to feed my family in this town of 42 people where i can't find a job. it's not right it it's realities. >> you don't have to a look for

you've euphemisms. the way -- i don't know if you understand algorisms, it's part of the science of the technology, which continuously weighs and measures pro and con on every issue, and so bigots operate 24/7 and it -- if the traffic out there by the bigots is such that when you plug on to jew, you will get anti-jew first, then you will get pro-ju because that's the way the messages are float neglect cloud system. the same thing with the

holocaust. you'll get anti- -- hole taus denial, because the 24/'7 bigotses operating on those networks, that what they're feeding. in my days at the adl we went to pool, pal alto, we went to see the geniuses and said thank you for all these wonderful things you have given us but there are unintended consequence your genius, and the unintensed consequence is is that you now give a preeminence to the negatives. their answer was, allege go ash algorithms algorithms and with all due respect, nonsense there when an issue arises on the al american league guy rhythmic charts which hurts the value of the serve are, whether it's yahoo or

google or whatever, all of a sudden they have a way to deal with the algorithm. another thing is don't be -- be alert, be aware, respond, and -- because it is not -- tell you the last thing on this. one of the meetings to complain about when you log on jrue, you get anti-jew, they said, well, you know, tell the jewish community to go on the internet and say nice things about the jews. we have nothing else to do but three times a day, you know, go on there, but by the way, we did it. there was a campaign and within a month, we did change it, but that's not our job. to protect -- so it is a very serious problem. not only sophisticated but in the crews man -- crude manner as well. >> it's fighting a losing battle because there's using

technology, fake anteds, artificial intelligence to inflate. they'll back conspiracy theories like them. let's wage a rational battle. >> last question. >> i'm so glad i'm the last. i'm going to try to be unemotional. but i'm sitting here at the museum of jewish heritage, a living memorial to the holocaust. my mother was in all-i witness and -- is going to 90 years old mitchell father is 93, also a holocaust survivor. i'm here for the first time to visit this museum because i like the topic. and i'm shocked. i'm so shocked at the fact that, firstly, clinics want to tell you, love you.

compassion. i'm the child of survivors, i'm named esther, after my grandmother, who was exterminatedment most of my mother's -- well, all of my mothers brothers and sisters were all exterminated. my father, out of 12 children, six survived. so, i come also -- aim a born israeli, born in a prison -- >> i hone you'll end with a question. >> i am. i'm going to ask you, mr. foxman, how can you, with the events right now, going on, whatever you think of mr. trump or president trump, thank you for your compassion, christian, because i want to bring compassion to this room. whether you're to the left or to the right, is an insane man who

believes that he can make a difference in a positive way. my parents brought me here to america and left -- >> your question is? >> the question is oh, do you sit here -- how could you sit here and not recognize the fact that right now, america lead leadership in the world is meeting with the three different major religions and their attitude and thinking is how can we bring peace to the world? how can we fight the evil in the world in this city here next holocaust museum, making fun of a man who is on a mission and the mission is the best mission you can think of in the world -- >> respect any -- >> i'm not here for political -- for any political. >> fine. >> i just want 0. >> got vow view -- -- iwant to

tell mr. christian, christian, you're right. compassion and education of humans is what we need to do. so thank you for coming. i'd love for you sign my book. >> i hope you read this book. thank you. the last thing we respect any i need as a holocaust survivor, is a lecture from someone else to tell me how shy act, believe, stand, in terms of our tradition. you have a view, i respect it. doesn't have to necessarily be our views, and again, respectfully, it is really out of place, really your comments are out of place. this is not a discussion or a conversation, whether we like the president, whether we agree with his politics, whether he's going bring peace or not, come to another lecture where it is. this deals with christian's experience and a lesson for us to better understand the forces

of hatred, bigotry, and prejudice, that's in's reside in our see site. our environment parts out it. our election system ask and what happened is part of it. what you talking about with all due respect has very little to do with what we're about. come to another lecture where that is the subject, thank you. let me conclude. christian, the word -- thank you. [inaudible] >> anybody -- >> feel free to come up afterwards. i'm happy to answer anybody's questions. >> i see tony's hand up. okay. we have to break it. the words, thank you, or so banal, for us to say to you that for you to have the strength, the courage, the fortitude, it's

not the first time, and i don't compare -- i know when i used to speak or speak about my holocaust experiences, it was very difficult. it was very difficult, because you bare your soul, bare your experiences, so just to say thank you isn't enough, but that's the best -- we recall sue, we appreciate, we know it is painful. and it's bearing your soul a moment of despair and ugliness your life for a greater purpose. for the greater purposes to inspire us. to inspire us, and if, again -- everything we have heard and argued, et cetera, your last -- your request -- because all the other things are very difficult. how do you change society? how do you change people?

one step at a time. one person at a time. >> exactly. >> and after all that you have gone through, what would you want us to do? you want us to be nice to somebody we don't know. you know what? it's so little and yet it's the whole world. so, god bless you. >> thank you. >> continue the message, come back, be strong. [applause] >> this is not supposed to be easy. thank you so much. i believe there are -- they are selling books in the library. would love to sides and talk to all of you. if we can meet over there white be great and i look forward to speaking to you. thank you so much. appreciate it. thank you, abe. >> thank you.