. >> this is so exciting and would be one of my favorites because i nonfiction finance and the types of authors we would have book that is on every reading list that you can imagine with every book club so i am thrilled.

citadel of the vice president for analysis europeans to jedi and the moderator for today's discussion on the politics

and the challenges relating to the gaza strip. in this is part of the family foundation and a lecture series we are not relatives although perhaps we are distant cousins. this event today is the live stream on the web site as well as c-span it will also be available later and because it is being recorded please put earphones on silent we do encourage tweeting. we hope he will connect regularly with us on our web

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today we are looking at the critical humanitarian situation with a lot going in - - going on and fighting and to possibly impact the situation although boston has been under a blockade for nearly a decade and also with electricity or a lot of issues with the gaza strip such harassment only how they could talk about the

current suffering to regional and international deliberation and how does one envoy a dynamics that some of our aborning could have a war again and that was very devastating and we certainly want to avoid another conflagration. we have an excellent panel with us today i will introduce them briefly a policy fellow currency based daughter of new york and say policy network day think

tank without borders to foster public debate on palestinian human-rights with the framework of international law and and inexpert on the executive branch policy with that is really thinking as well and with serving with distinction for go to my immediate left is the acting director of united nations which has approximately 12200500 staff across of gaza strip with mental health event micro credit in emergency assistance.

and jim my extreme right is a fellow with the brookings institution. teaching at georgetown and stanford and indonesia currently writing a book on the israeli grand strategy. i will engage our panelists in discussion and we will close promptly at 1:30 p.m. today. can you paint a picture of the current humanitarian economic situation on the ground in the gaza strip and also painted the picture of those views that are obstructed and how do you describe the situation since the conflict of 2014? so

let's start off with a picture. >> thanks for hosting this today but in 2012 there was a report called gaza 20/20 space will share a brief quotation by the year 2020 will increase around 2.1 million. fundamental ever structure for electricity and sanitation is struggling to keep pace of the needs of the growing population. electricity provisions will lead to double that damage to the offer will be reversible. since 2012 there has been continued development during the conflict and during that time 290,000 civilians were

sheltering in school's 86,000 refugee homes were damaged in tens of thousands but in addition psycho social distress so virtually 100 percent of the children experienced some signs of ptsd. also and i can take last few times we have seen a lot more delicate parts with fewer cars and trucks. offical on employment is 67% for women in perhaps most troubling for the youth for

age 15 through 25 is 60% with the courage electricity crisis running about 20 or 22 hours a day are the blackouts so to put that into perspective they could have electricity for as long as this panel discussion today. so when they do have electricity fails scramble to get everything done more than 90 percent of the tap water is not drinkable. and more than 100 million liters of raw sewage pumped into the ocean every day that his olympic size swimming pools being dumped every day. >> there was an update a few

weeks ago to the 20/20 report and this is one portion of it. most of those earlier projections have deteriorated further than earlier stated. the per-capita has decreased and the demand for additional health clinics it has maintained higher education in standards the only water source to trigger increased the of the materials of gaza the access of material to allow that infrastructure services to recover and that has been highly restricted.

so how can that be reversed? the un has been acting -- acting -- asking doctors to have a sustainable initiatives. perhaps most importantly for the freedom of movement and vegetarian coordinator said of a more devastating a solution to increase. and the prospect for peace with israel. >> thank you very much. >> what is the current funding situation?. >>.

>> as a contributor so what are the current pathways?. >> with the of finding information we have the deficit of $125 million on a budget of 15 million per year. we are working to make that budget deficit we have calculated roughly a structural deficit we have to overcome. it is the largest contributor for those

agencies. we do have support from the european union that is the number two contributor. and this gives us another 25%. so as you noted most of those have been close. we also have an active in coordinated role for construction or food items we have a very sophisticated system so we generally don't

have any problems there but with bad tool useless that could be considered so they are able to come in but experts warn negative exports is traditionally manufacturing economy other fruit or vegetables so to export those goods the adjuster not there anymore. >> are there other a programs provided directly to gaza?.

>> they give to those that operate for construction and as a defacto government. >> help us understand those politics so block us through what is going on politically how that is shifting. >> thanks for hosting the panel.

i will try to go in in chronological order and going to where we are today. is a lot of attention was given to gaza but that was the results from the west bank following those decisions from the beginning of the year. so with looking at the medicines and medical supplies in the salaries of the employees that are present and living within the gaza strip rather than the west bank.

allegedly said that that they are attempting to control which is a big part of the budget but that focus of president abbas shows that there was an effort to increase that pressure or to stop making payments and the combination is the escalation of major military crisis where they doing that for the moment? so with that regional dynamic to be

unfolding for the past four years but most notably between her negative and israel but immediately was the entry of a new american president and president trump already showed signs to have policies between israel and the of palestinians and they could provide bad deal. and then with that administration coming to office there would be dynamics and with the premier alliance and the islamic extremist including

the muslim brotherhood. with the policy shifting under the of trompe administration he will make up position to take a strong line on the ground to implement president trump of with the agenda so they you could identify through a single palestinian voice to take strong policies toward the hamas government in the gaza strip. so that forms the backdrop of the decision so that is the international context so we see there was a significant opportunity so on one hand they were quite isolated and that meant

there was no merchandize and also the relationship from hamas to iraq in saudi arabia in the emergence of the regime in egypt men to hamas was swept up in the policies to marginalize and protect the muslim brotherhood in egypt that meant those borders so all these together resulted in a situation where the government was quite isolated especially for president abbas so there was increasing rifle with the political establishment and

the powers within gaza to position himself coming back into the political establishment so both the press dubbed him coming into power and the possibility of that idea would be supportive of the policies that president abbas was taking to increase the measures to isolate hamas so they could come back to the gaza strip and of course, of the saw in the gulf crisis with a country that was accused that is reflective of those dynamics in the

challenge now is to show it isn't a supporting organization so that is the context and it was a flawed decision for several reasons and to be a counter productive than they have backfired so now hamas has moved much closer how that is producing a significant threats and now with some of those policies to have some form of reconciliation. >> so who is backing if anybody? what was he

counting on?. >> my reading of the situation is if he could present himself from the palestinian authority tunicate -- take control of the gaza strip in the west bank a could support this country such as saudi arabia if he could demonstrate to take control of the gaza strip. so what was resulted is the you ae as a possible

successor to president abbas and that is more for egypt and never before i think it could fall either way and is now support of coming back into power but in deciding to further increase with the rationale is that you can increase pressure on the population in order to weaken on those governments.

and has been weakened several times. and those between gaza and then they could further weaken hamas of the gaza strip from the west bank and that was completely misread and those latest on to bemoaned and how they see in

the west bank and thai you see the future there. >> so in terms of the first question and from those days just before and with that situation on the ground between israel and gaza and

though that murder and objections -- reduction of those three israeli teenagers. they came away for the escalation in a mosque gets a lot of that legitimacy so it is an organization end to take a vantage end the crisis with those tools driven - - shipments win the war escalated and how it

positions itself of the israeli aspiration for jerusalem man the west bank but i do think it is an ironic twist of fate of hamas that coordination that under his leadership but also in the gaza strip from the uae support and that the

we have prevented that and that benefits by having another political entry point with the political establishment. and gaza is critical to the establishment. that is somehow marginal so for than to grab a foothold into the palace korean authorities and that is a very tough line pothos are increasing the author tarriance but also incapable

of getting any concessions. so my guess he could get political support within the west bank as well. there could be the other contenders in the nba power dynamic. >> so now we turn to you. the israeli discussions in debate of changing developments in gaza and they don't have centers there with a troubled relationship in those current debates so to have

the hamas standoff in the new role of the uae and egypt, what is the thinking there?. >> is a pleasure to be here at mei and i think the extreme right will be disappointed but that is terrible but for many israelis is a very bad situation so those three wars with gaza have been very damaging for those that were in charge so there is that growing recognition

that status quo is very bad so we see how to deal with this one and it is widespread desire which is a state neighboring israel every couple of years and therefore wherever it would be you would have extremely unstable situation they would necessarily have that so the solution one palestinian done or one palestinian authority and the end to war with its

neighbor. and it is worth noting that we all have a separate military to assume that is a constant but hamas will not give up its powers the matter the damage to the gaza strip. so then the question arises is what to do? sova to conquer the gaza strip the matter the cost with the war every couple years but usually by far level heads prevail that would be very different than previous rounds and of course, the damage was far worse there than israel but they were

running to the shelters and regardless of how it is in gaza that is not viable. >> so the other alternative with the official palestinian government is a desire that there is a dip bait from the right wing that we should not exacerbate the situation but in the end so that his party by choice so there was a

market loosening the blockade so i was talking but not pressuring too hard because then you get into a war that you don't want one that is the impressive organization but there was a market especially on exports in part that has gotten worse recently so by a large is the interesting irony the ones that our more hopeful

that our more prone better more hawkish john the gaza strip. but those ones are now singing a different tune. . . right now they're talking about

accepting the status quo. the simple reality right now is that in this loop of do you try to get out of the status quo which leads you back to the hope that hamas will be brought under the full which doesn't happen and then you turn to -- and trying to push farther and resolve the problem the core you're risking more each time. hamas cares more about its power than the gaza. what is it (? israel is in a terrible conundrum. the gaza strip is right near the population of israel in the conditions on the ground that we heard our redness. they are also bad for israel. the water is the same water that comes up the coast in the

aquifer is the same aquifer under the several crucial part of israel and heavily populated. 2 million people in its looming for israel. the solution is they don't have one. that's a bust. then the possibility comes up in the israelis know we work with them in the '90s and in charge of security in the gaza strip in the '90s and lost it to hamas in the blood he could. some of the israelis know, personally, very well. he's back by the egyptians in the egyptians fighting some of the same enemies that israel find his back by the u ae. in that context, if you think about getting the two state solution in the west bank and some of this is an appealing

situation. let me conclude by saying there's a difficult dilemma here and it not that simple. on one hand, in the long term, real solution would be to bring gaza under the west wing fold and perhaps it's possible and we should do all we can to facilitate that. in the short term, what you really need to do is try to alleviate the terrible situation in the gaza strip and to avoid a much more terrible reoccurrence of the war. have a very difficult long-term and short-term dilemma. to my mind, the possibility of another competent gaza and another situation and things need to be moved rapidly in that direction but i would point out not simply jettisoning and accepting hamas which we all work under the assumption does not care about people of gaza. not an easy choice. >> thank you. i will ask you a follow-up question. on the short-term issue why

hasn't israel gotten the short term balance right between hamas, in gaza for now, and that doesn't necessarily have an interest in wanting a war except when it's really is pleased as it has been several times in the past and in some ways hamas manages some aspect of the jihad groups that place a little partner role indirectly, perhaps, and containing or managing a situation -- why hasn't israel or hamas found a livable balance, call it a long-term truce or something that would seem to be in the interest of both interests and why is it that it's gone to the brink so many times? the other question i want to ask is a question on turkey.

the is really turkish relations have gone ups and downs and turkish have had ambitions to play some role in gaza and some where the relationship stands and where it doesn't. >> that's a good question. i think why haven't they reached a motor 70 where they agree to have a more or less quiet border. in part, there have been some attempts and it's worth remembering that after hamas was elected there was brokered by the europeans that allowed them to man the crossings and could continue more or less as normal with the pa, presidential guard, facilitating the crossings. it wasn't stable. part of the answer is -- why haven't israel and hamas because there's ramallah in the mix.

ramallah is not a viable solution. secondly, every time there has been an easing of a blockade and especially in recent years, very dramatic changes, israel has hamas. for the next round and we don't see gaza flourishing. that is worth noting. the early stages of a blockade -- the bucket comes after the coup when hamas takes over the gaza strip. the early stages start earlier even before the disengagement and they start when ramallah was in charge of the gaza strip and the start with the kidnappings and capture of terror soldier from the israeli territory. in short, israelis mistrust hamas intentions and it's pronounced. why can't they find a motor 70? every time they give something it's emboldening hamas for the next round.

the second is it's not completely clear that hamas speaks with one voice and there has been an attempt in the past and hamas as different even in 2014 when you saw. [inaudible] the political ring class didn't want it either. they didn't have a section of authority over their military wings. even then the modus operandi is difficult. the regional dynamic is important. hamas has the region and remember hamas as a porter feet of not just israel. blockade is right to countries. first, priority is a four is it

seems as a general islamic group and from the israeli perspective one, and the right wing, it's an appealing alternative because it's an adjustment problem and let themselves. secondly, because they don't want to annoy and concessions to hamas. [inaudible] not to mention all the countries in the region with animosity toward them. i'll try to be brief. talking too much for turkey, of course, and qatar are the outliers in the region and with turkey the relations are complicated. a colleague of mine -- the relations have come back to a normalcy but a lot of the

instigation for the big crisis was ben ghazi and turkey so wants to play an active role. the relations between israel and turkey even more politically trade relations for good and growing and now the political is off the map. jerusalem, for some company things. by and large piercing is an agreement to continue as normal while still others frederick that is cantankerous. certainly now with you one. in short, there's not much trust and believe that he will there's a feeling that constructive relations with eredogran are certainly in the benefit of turkey as well. that continues. >> laura, turn to you is there

and is really long-term strategy and what is your view of that and coming to washington business administration where does it appear on their radar and what is the approach at reviving the peace process and do you see in gaza an opportunity for diplomacy or for progress where it might be more difficult. >> thank you. thanks mei for organizing this. as i was preparing my thoughts for this event, it occurred to me that this is the first event i can recall on gaza in washington in a very long time which is actually a telling fact. gaza is off everyone's screen until we start having more discussion about are we about to have another war.

this is striking. i'm old enough to remember a lot of wars in gaza and everyone in this room has probably been through a period of words in gaza and each time there's a car accident in slow motion and everyone acts as if no one has agency to do anything but watch these cars collide for these cars drive into a wall. i think the title of this event says a lot. is thousand reaching a boiling point. as a friend of mine in israel said gaza is not a pot of water and it's not a lawn that grows up and needs to be mowed. it's also not a person who is worrying about their weight, watching their caloric intake, is the question. the thanh preferences and my friend tonya i talked to her before coming and she said and i'm paraphrasing -- we've turned

gaza, we meeting all of us by the way, we've turned it into the largest controlled experiment with human beings in history. testing what is the behavior and breaking point of 2 million people as pressure increases over time. that is a fundamental challenge for all of us in this room. it'll be good if we think about it is how we resolve it before we get to the point of pay, will be have another war. in terms of -- i want to start something positive in it how you open the question, is there is really strategy. when you look at the israeli approach is tactical, not strategic. partly because no one has a good idea how to and this in a way when you don't potentially end up with a situation that is worse on israel's border which is an absolute legitimate

concern because right now we are still framing development and humanitarian concerns in gaza and security as a zero-sum bargain. it's a very problematic way of setting up this calculus. it's fundamentally wrong. that is something that the interventions seems to be changing that calculus. the other part of it, and this is where it's distinct from the west bank and east jerusalem, is that israel doesn't have strategic objectives in the gaza strip the way it does in the west bank. there aren't settlements and the settlements are gone and the settlers have given up and i don't see a great assertive tendency. there isn't the wrestling with we have to keep this space for settlers and what percentage and there's another. that actually offers, i would say, a ray of hope that there are pragmatic solutions that we can work on and available to gaza that are much harder in the west bank if one were looking for this. at this point, though, were talking about a tactical

approach in the international community, including the united states, has acquiesced to that. in that sense, we are all complicit and we are all enablers in a situation where we can see at any given moment the situation in gaza and the poor show in gaza has many many authors. let's be clear. overarching authority and responsibility is israel and i agree with the other speaker that israel has a completed set of issues to balance but israel turned off electricity. that is a moral choice. there are arguments for why dealing with hamas and everything there's a possibility and there are obligations on all sides. as we look towards the next gaza war -- i remember six months ago saying will be have another for the summer. my goodness. if there will be another war in

the summer why are we trying to avert it rather than watching it happen? this was talked about, you can see how these things evolve. the us deserves enormous credit, i believe, for not backing away from the humanitarian side of this. our continued support for what we deserve credit for and i don't know if anyone understands how much political pressure there is against 22. you have a constituency and in the jewish community which says the way to solve the refugee issue because there's so long to their homes the way to solve it is to get rid of unra because if they stop calling them refugees then it's a very attractive solution if you want to get -- it's total crap.

that is been constant pressure for more than a decade and the aid has continued and the american people are committed in a way that's laudable. this is not simply a humanitarian crisis and simply bandaging it is not a us policy. it's a tactical approach is well as the israeli approach. it is getting worse and worse. this is where we are today when we talk about when will the next gaza for beef. i was thinking about what i would want to talk about because it's been a long time since anyone has talked about gaza. we are sort of in this box when we talk about gaza. i was there two years ago and i visited unrwa facilities and i'm only person i know that works for a humanitarian but doesn't go to gaza. it was sobering.

i went up to the hill and talked about people what i saw in gaza and the response i got was wow, that is terrible. until hamas is gone there's nothing we can do. i found this very predictable and troubling response in terms of yes, here is what children is going through and people going through and here is the security implications for israel of a perpetually being on the verge of breaking down. here's the environmental risks for israel. it doesn't matter until hamas is gone that will put ourselves in this box. for me, when i talk about this today, and most people know me for the work i do on settlements in jerusalem, i have concluded today that gaza is no longer a separate issue and no longer part of the overall peace process but a permanent status issue and needs to be treated as one. it is an isolated and separated for so long it is no less of a

permanent status issue than jerusalem or settlements or refugees and it needs as much attention as the house. for those of us who have for years said listen, gaza will be resolved in the context of a conflict pending agreement and that will wrap it up and i don't believe that anymore. i don't think anyone can believe that anymore. there is no solution without gaza. for the israeli rights, that gives up on the two state solution, it doesn't surprise me that were hearing more dramatic talk. for people who believe that somehow gaza solves the west bank by alleviating the demographic pressures on israel, again, i will say that is crap. the technical political term i have mind in this venue is crap. you do not get a piece of the palestinians without gaza and you do not get a peace agreement on gaza until you start dealing with the realities and that means first and foremost the humanitarian realities, yes, but

it also means no longer as an international community, as the united states, ask what asking to the calculus that has been imposed by the parties, by israel and hamas. this is bigger than them. for years people have said we can't want people more than the parties and i said prevailing time that i suspect the international committee wants peace more than a lot of parties and i suspect that without the pressure and help from the international community they won't get past their objections to dealing with each other. i don't actually know of any other regional conflict in the world where people have said, bosnia or rwanda, we can't want peace more than the parties. the humanitarian side, sorry, it's awful what is happening but as long as the hutus and tutus cancel each other, we can't do anything. this has to be done. whether you are coming at it from the us national security interest or concern about gaza's stability in egypt and isis and

all of that or strictly about the israel security and environmental or whatever it is, you still get the same question which is allowing gaza to simmer, under it until we get the next four is morally apparent and politically nonsensical in from a security standpoint is self-defeating. >> thank you. thank you very much. i will come back to a question i asked you. what are you seeing in this administration? what are the tvs? and what are the tea leaves on other diplomatic channels that may or may not exist that relates to gaza or gaza as the broader picture? >> i said to someone recently what does the trump administration think on x and i said anyone who tells you what the trump administration thanks

on x is lying to you. i used to say they're lying to themselves, too, but now they're flat out lying. there isn't a single voice. i could say well, i talked to this one person political or actually could be someone political or bureaucratic and i have no idea. i can say that i think we are continuing our current commitment on humanitarian side and that is laudable and is an expenditure of political capital for which this demonstration deserves credit. i will say something to someone who is not a great fan of this administration for a lot of it issues or in general but i will say something to give them some credit which is on this they are not much different on gaza than the obama administration. no one wants to pay attention to gaza. this is a sinkhole for people politically. there are no easy answers available and anything you do is going to [bleep] israel and will [bleep] congress. >> yes please, ass project you

do this for another that you'll say what you think. >> there is no point of entry we put this on the rules for hamas. the no you can't deal with hamas until it reforms itself and send all of its people to dale and it's not possible. if the rules of engagement are we will not engage until the people in charge locked up, leave and say that we are sorry to put themselves in jail then there's no place to engage. okay. fine. you try that. you try that for a lot of years and it didn't work. when i hear discussion on this illustrious panel about the calculations people are making about what will we can whom and when -- i hearken back to a decade of sitting in it,

committee in beirut when they were talking about who would wait longer it would be in a better position when the other guy was weaker. that was a decade ago. we've had this game plan for a decade. i was just in ramallah and i asked someone about the electricity issue and they weren't defending but they were saying it was basically a failed policy and we should've done it ten years ago. now, it's a failed policy. maybe. it would've been immoral ten years ago but at this point, we been down this road over and over and there's always a little bit different on the margin. [inaudible] will the everett turn this enough that the hamas speculations fundamentally change and suddenly one person gets to be in charge of we have a new point of entry? we can hope for it. as an analyst, i find it extremely improbable that outside some serious intervention from the other world said you will move this direction and there is a benefit to you if you do and there is a cost to you if you don't.

same war, different day with a slightly different effect and with the same horrific impact on the ground. >> thank you very much. let me now turn to the audience for questions. there are protein microphones. please raise your hands. sentiment in the far back. introduce yourself and ask your question. [inaudible] are use to travel to gaza regularly in 2013 and 2014 for news reports. my question is not hamas as a terrorist group. the eu recently ruled to keep hamas on the terror list and there's no possibility that the united states will chop hamas off the list in the new feature. my question is to end the gaza blockade, is there any specific like is there a prerequisite for

the world to recognize that hamas is not a terrorist group and we know but the two things are related. how close are the two things related? >> the gentleman right next to you. >> i teach at george washington university. how well is the syria. [inaudible] good talk. >> over here, the gentleman in the second row. two gentleman in the second row. gentleman in the redshirt first. >> and advisor to aipac. my question is for the gaza

security corporation between idf in the security forces, of course, we know they benefited for a while but how safe and secure is the security corporation, if there are more crises like the one we had will hamas people to continue or will the pressure stop it? >> gentleman on the second row. [inaudible] there is no blockade. i think it is a myth. [inaudible]

[inaudible] is tomorrow, israel opens the borders or egypt opens the borders, the situation will not change. the blockade is not a problem. >> the lady in the third row. >> my name is hon. i have a couple questions. the definition of a renegade state which was referred to as hamas and i'm wondering what exactly that definition is because we think of israel, a country that continues to violate international law, destroys infrastructure of gaza, kills civilians et cetera you have to think about what the construction is of a renegade state. secondly, i'm a little surprised in this panel that it seems like were talking about palestine and israel as if they are equal parties in this conflict. it is clearly the case, honestly, that israel has the

power to mitigate the conditions that palestinians are facing. i'm curious as to why the comments were tilted in that regard i think that's a huge oversight. with regard to the us role in funding unrwa, while you said is laudable why does it work out the billions of dollars of military foreign aid that the us provide israel with that seems counterproductive. lastly, in terms of thinking about gaza in the humanitarian crisis, were not talking about a hurricane they want to gaza but a humanitarian crisis caused by state violence. i'm hoping that i can hear from you all as to how we address the humanitarian crisis in that regard. >> thank you. was to our panel. lera, will start with you choose any of the questions.

>> unfortunately i can't read my handwriting. so on the questions i should have wrote down. first of all, i want to start in the back because i think it's a key question. the question of hamas and the terrorist group. other people can talk about, chris can address the whole issue and the mechanism for reconstruction and limits that are put on dealing with gaza because hamas is in charge. hamas is a terror organization because they engage in terrorism. what ever you believe, i mean, in terms of israel relations with hamas and what it should be in the fact that israel doesn't deal with hamas, let's not pretend that they don't. it's a zero, zero, zero contact. hamas has supported devastating terrorism inside israel and i would argue that shooting missiles, rockets, unnamed into civilian areas is definitionally

terrorist activity. that is not resistance or self-defense. when you are shooting things off and wondering where they will land and aiming them toward populated errors, that is terrorism. that being said the fact that the west bank, the gaza is under control of hamas doesn't mean that the entire population of gaza is now guilty of being a terrorist or that it is legitimate or legal or moral to inflict collective punishment.

>> >> the world will say this is a man-made humanitarian crisis. i am not an expert with every conflict in the world but i cannot think of any conflict with the row has said we hate to the rulers of we will abandon the people almost completely ruby are actively supporting the conflict from one side. it doesn't hold up as a national security construct.

>> can also issues can you say more about that with three construction and development?. >> so the problem is in the earlier remarks fundamentally it is the problem there are items available for purchase but if you cannot afford the products you cannot buy them so julien people in the gaza strip that is half of the population and that is

another 250,000 at a population of 2 million so what is it like there isn't anything on the shelf so prior to the blockade there were palestinians at work did israel so that border crossing is evidence of massive amounts of people so every time i go there is empty so if the economy will recover that is the critical component in terms of reconstruction we have

shelters san housing is overseen by the u.n. it district where the material goes to import concrete and other materials is video cameras we have to see where the material is as an to match that up with a concrete we have requested so it is a very tight regime that no one does materials used for other uses so i think we do see there are infrastructure projects taking place those that are related to the refugees but

there is that hesitancy who will control or run that zero or operate that? so there is the hesitation on the international community's with those infrastructure problems. talk about those humanitarian issues you just cannot create jobs to have that second largest we represent 11% of gdp. so those d&b systematically addressed. >> time for questions?. >> so those that were spoken

about on the panel i think it is important to take us step back to understand that broader context so if you support that in my mind is a red herring to create a situation everything israel does tour the gaza strip is executed if it is executable with islamic radical groups to the prism of fighting terror is inexcusable so before hamas and gaza to be a terrorist haven it was a haven also the islamic

emirates and all the terms that appear to justify positivity put in place to maintain gaza as of problematic enclave. so that has created a situation we are not actually talking about conflict resolution with those political drivers the conflict management to say we keep the gaza strip and the long term strategy and that is whether or not isolation of the gaza strip but all of those are operating within the context of the palestinian authority of the west bank and while

having the authority in the gaza strip the committed to armed struggle against israel and we can keep all of that and we can manage that palestinian territory and with those political drivers and what hamas has an organization is making a good everyone about hamas but i find their policies despicable but that does not mean they all have legitimate political poll and that if hamas were to be defeated now what about

after hamas? instead of fixating some pottery manage the situation in gaza so what are the underlying political drivers are to begin with? israel is the occupying straight -- state when we talk about how maas' not carrying is the occupying force they are still all occupied by israel that is in violation of international law regardless of what hamas thinks.

the other thing i want to say is we can talk about hamas to be a terrorist organization but the fact of the matter is with that infrastructure and when the flares to what they support the resistance and they are legitimate with that determination so if that is sold lois wolf attack so

instead of talking about this idea to the na difficult position in reality there would not be that situation. getting in line with american foreign policy so if there is any desire it is said to focus:hamas but to deal with that palestinian issue that still has international law supported by international law that israel continues to sidestep and circumvent.

>> there is a lot to do with. >> so to give province is by rebellious military that would have very dramatic sanctions that is something they have not done. so they see those changes but there are more important undertones with that d termination i think we are missing the point because

those other is in a better situation so who do you hate more? that is beside the point. so whether nonsense a hates' israel more is beside the point it is more what the parties can do the remember the stronger party as believers of power but it is a terrible mistake with those low expectations to think they have no agency at all.

it is light years better there is something about those decisions that have been different to have the real effect we can argue to is to blame but there is a dramatic crisis of people there is also agencies to a the party so relevant is that should not be relevant dealing with the reality that hamas should be spoken to but that there is a reality but we still deal with them in reality.

so with the blockade sometimes they say there is day c. shah and gaza clearly there is a blockade but the blockade that we have done with many others. so after 10 years of a partial blockade with no clear resolution that doesn't lead to them do whatever they want with the

u.s. soared denmark could attack it tijuana broke from mexico thinking the u.s. would do something about it. i think things need to be changed dramatically or that israel is the stronger power >> security a cooperation is a question and what happens of the west bank so with at palestinian authority that's

is crucial help cooperation continues in i think that is a good thing that should be an independent state along israel. >> representing the national council so what does that mean for gaza is that last for months or years?. >>. >>.

>> i was born in iran with global bridges for humanity but the problem of what is going non so a? question. >> when is the more powerful partner in their behalf to live together. >>.

>> so after talking to a the rabbis who said his attacks along palestinian not only hamas but those promises so whenever palestine in hamas are attacked do you really think israel will stop with that occupational mindset if it decides otherwise?. >> one more question. >> the question is the of occupation so has sen

occupier of of gaza strip the border is partly closed the main difference is to have the access that basically is the core of the three occupation but to explain the full argument. >> we have very few minutes. >> said the occupation boils down to the. >> that is the effective

control of the territory between the air and in the sea. no military troops with that effective control this is what it boils down to it is dangerous to use of rhetoric because it weakens the possibility so they pulled out of the gaza strip and the result was worse. >> when do they change their mind? when they decided to engage the plo and then later with the two-state solution.

so what is happening and to ask why that situation. >> time is short. i enjoyed all of this this is where we agree to the duo's inhabitants better but in the west bank they could be better with that coordination to also maintained a semblance to avoid of occupation of your

everyday life so this is fundamentally inaccurate so it is a rupture of life is better they will continue to demand political rights. so in terms of occupation not only the ec and air because israel does not allow you to leave. in the latter to get some form of identity.

and that is another way and ending with this final comment so half of my talking the beginning was the fact it has devolved into the zero sum game. and with the occupation of their life without seeing with those that are maintaining the occupation than actually is quite sustainable in this very

sustainable. but otherwise things will the change on the ground. >> i want to close to what i said before going back into of us discussion just when will be the next war in in gaza or also talking about jerusalem exploding across the west bank for girl we have a low level intifada that has bubbled up over the last three years with global terrorism is not from gaza i agree with both colleagues said so to be a social path

to look at gaza to have some sense of irresponsibility abbasid absent that there is an even the pretense that long has been absent but i am old enough to remember the logic that they will shah out hamas that they will see how zero badly gaza to life flourished in the west bank. over the past 10 years with those political horizon with

the area to be depopulated in that had worked and we saw a gaza turn into this place and the west bank turd into hong kong may be that it's a winning strategy. so spent some time there to see is an example was happening it is a much better example so effectively to be depopulated.

so those outpost have pins and straight back by the ideology that suspend the rule of law what if hamas goes away with a viable peace plan what about the religious side? so with a real love of the land. do not forget have drawn the cradle of judaism. to give up control of hebron if you are religious and all and even if you were not you should understand the connection they say and i agree with the bacon come back to hebron as a person with a legitimate right and

history. that is what they are fighting for. that stream and the of religious commitment does not demand occupation and after every war that is what we are missing and tell somebody resurrects it. [applause] seven things to the family foundation for their support and also mr. salem so please join me to thank the excellent panel. [applause] [inaudible conversations]

. . .... .... .... >> and later, andrew carol looks at world war i through the eyes of general john perishing in "my