cnn didn't mention a word about it and the notion of being on the front page of the new york times or getting anderson cooper to talk about your getting the number one video on youtube, these are what we call breaking through. >> go to booktv.org. next two veteran journalists, in the recent general elections in kenya topics include campaign financing, female representation in parliament, the youth phone and opposition court case claiming the results were hacked. kenya's ambassador to the us was in attendance and asked the panelist questions, center for strategic and international studies hosted this 90 minute event.

>> welcome to our kenyan election review. we did a kenyan election preview. i am not sure many of our forecasts or predictions came to pass which is maybe a good thing. i will introduce, very happy that we have a panel this morning consisting of two distinguished journalists who have been in kenya following the campaign in kenya and i will introduce them in just a moment. my name is mark bellamy, senior advisor for africa at csi us, ambassador in nairobi, i had the good fortune to spend several

weeks in nairobi prior to this year at the election. i want to start with a few opening remarks to frame this morning's discussion and turn to our guests. as all of you in this room know, last week 15 million canyons went to the polls to elect a president, to elect members of parliament, to elect governors to 49 counties and a number of other officeholders. by any standard and certainly by african standards this was a remarkable event. if only because of the thousands of campaign appearances by different candidates, because of the passionate participation of such a large part of the canyon electorate and the technological sophistication of this process

including the speedy electronic tallying of votes on election day. as you know, incumbent president won the presidency with a margin of victory that was larger than predicted in any paul, but not outside the realm of probability. as expected, opposition leader has rejected the results claiming these elections were rigged. he genuinely believed he had the numbers this time to win and canyons and international observers believed that as well. he warned he was certain the incumbent would stop at nothing to rob him yet again of an

electoral victory yet unlike in 2007-2013 he is struggling to convince observers these elections were, in fact, seriously flawed. angry protests have erupted in some nairobi slums and parts of western kenya that are his strongholds but so far there is little to suggest a repeat of the ethnic-based violence that followed the calamitous 2007 elections. most of the deaths in this can be attributed to quick trigger, quick triggered kenyan security forces so at this point it is probably a good idea for all of us to urge restraint on all sides, restraint in terms of putting supporters in the street

and the kenyan government keeping it security forces on a short leash. most international observers gave the thumbs-up to these elections. the white house has issued a statement congratulating the president on his victory. in kenya, apart from the opposition's predictable rejection of the results some legitimate doubts remain. forms signed by election officials and party agents at each polling station and each constituency counting center that are meant to confirm the electronic results of these elections have not been completely and publicly released. for the election commission to say don't worry, we have these

forms in hand isn't good enough. to put the final feel of approval on this election these forms need to be posted by the elect oral commission on its website or made available for public scrutiny and without that final step, public confidence in the elect oral commission which was a problem throughout the campaign, this lack of confidence will indoor and suspicions about hacking and rigging will likely also indoor. i must confess that some of my predictions did not come to pass and in many ways i am relieved that they didn't. it was very easy to imagine scenarios that this election was acrimonious throughout and thought to be exceptionally close would end in disorder and

possibly widespread violence. that would have been a severe setback for kenya's young democracy and for canyons eagerness to exercise and test their rights under kenya's new constitution. those worst-case scenarios did not materialize. i may have been wrong in predicting clean, fair, credible electoral process regardless of who won would be a big boost for all of kenya and overtime would have the effect of communities closer together. i was probably too idealistic in making that assumption. the aftermath of this election, clean and fair and credible though it may prove to be seems to be trending in a different direction and not necessarily leading to greater inclusiveness and social cohesion.

it may be too early to draw that conclusion but not to be concerned about the quick crackdown on civil society, a move that recalls some of the low points had followed the 2013 election. and election won by william rudell. i would like to turn to our two guests. i am delighted we have two distinguished journalists from the voice of america both of whom have covered different aspects of the kenyan campaign and the elect oral process. directly to my right, victor mc cordy is managing director of the english africa service and

tv hosts of africa 54 program. a native of kenya, victor is a versatile journalist with 20 years of experience working in africa, europe and the us. he has covered many international stories, international conferences and many prominent international figures and covered this election in kenya on the grounds arriving weeks or days before the election and through the electoral process so great to have you with us today. and native tanzanian, chief of the swahili service, started his career as a journalist in tanzania, joined in 1994 and traveled widely through africa and reported from many corners of africa, he was one of the first journalists to visit darr for and report on the dark for story internationally back in

2004. the bachelors, masters and doctoral degrees from howard university. set up and organized and ran the network of correspondents that were in place in kenya to cover this election so thank you for agreeing to join us here this afternoon. if i can i would like to turn to you first for your impressions, your comments on this election. each of our guests will speak for a while and we will open up to your comments and questions. >> good afternoon. it is a pleasure to be invited to talk about this historic election in kenya. it was such an event and great to be on the grounds.

there are so many things that happen, i can always say having been monitoring the developments running up to the elections it was an exciting time in kenya because stakes were so high the incumbent was running to make sure to secure a second term. there has been a lot for him and his supporters, did a good job for the last 5 years from the opposition leader, for many it has been concluded that this is it, his only chance to make it and if he doesn't, i predicted he will be taking his retirement from politics. we don't know if they will confirm that so it was interesting to observe the

campaigns and try to listen to what they are saying, why they wanted to be elected and ten days before the actual closing day, there was so much frenzy of activity, the campaigns were all over the country crisscrossing each other, trying to get the last vote particularly from areas where they believe many voters didn't do so well last time. almost impossible to catch up with them. another region of the country, it was interesting, the night i was traveling didn't realize a very important key person in the elect oral commission had disappeared and i woke to that news as i was settling in and

fighting jet lag. the manager of the independent election have gone missing and been discovered murdered. the timing couldn't have been worse. a few days until the election ends all the speculation especially of the confidence one could have, accusations by the opposition coalition, schemes to infiltrate the elect oral commission and manipulate the process so we woke up to the shock of the death of that man, and everyone was wondering if this was directly linked to the elections that were a few days away and that change the

narrative, the security of the electronic systems to transmit the election results. so as we continue to try to understand what was happening, we continued nevertheless to observe the last few days of the campaigns which were a frenzy of activity and tried to listen closely to see if we could see the major platforms for these two different campaigns especially with big cognitions, independent candidates didn't feature much even on the campaign trail. and after election, most of the

time in nairobi. listening to the two campaigns, did they understand other than attacking each other. they took question on the trail for what has been done in the area of infrastructure development even before the current administration with implementation of those projects, and to nairobi, and later on networks of highways which some were completed and still under construction and we

will definitely complete the job, taking care of what they have done. on the other side the opposition trying to convince the voters they can do something because they have nothing to show what they will do, to make any reference, you can see the challenge of trying to convince the voters they have a better plan but on the whole you consider as a journalist looking for real concrete plans with a strategy on development or otherwise you didn't see much. they traded insults, dancing on the campaign trail of

entertainment and later on the day came was very well organized and orchestrated, a fantastic job in the election, a few missing things but overall election day was a success, there were few complaints, nairobi city, but because the commission, everyone will vote those things, 8:00 pm after the polls closed at 5:00.

interesting, eventually streaming in, streamed live on the electoral commission and didn't take long between the incumbent and opposition leader and after that the opposition leader -- set off all this, debates for sure of the transmission and whether credible numbers on the screen, we will talk more about that. and the process before, during and after the election.

>> thank you. thank you for sharing the podium with you. i will show how we as the africa division prepare for this, this is a very important election, very unique in terms of accomplishing credible election and also demonstrating -- a lot of people were interested in. a division, we go to nairobi, and 25 stringers and not all were from kenya and journalists

in uganda and tanzania and canyons to do some training on election coverage, digging into the issue of objectivity, there was a lot of concern about violence and the media -- not to hype this concern but also you have to say there is an elephant in the room. we did this training on all platforms, radio, tv for five days in nairobi and did a lot of

social media training, social media was very important in this election, we wanted to address that before the elections. during the elections, we had people from here who went there also and nairobi, talking about the election itself, we capture the mood and what is going on.

the people of kenya had in this election, people came out in big numbers and they were there from midnight, shivering in the cold of nairobi, waiting to vote. and four hours, coming in and got in line, not until 10:00 a.m.. there was a lot of confidence, in terms of showing up and going

on, when the results came i would say personally, observing the results and having followed up the period before the elections, they were showing the elections they were neck and neck, study coming out, a few hours after that, he jumped to a 1 million lead and never relinquished it. i was astonished with the speed of how he jumped so far ahead so fast but i wasn't surprised that

he won. i was very surprised -- so today there is breaking news, promised this big announcement, the nation was waiting for this announcement, saying the victory is computer-generated and figures were cooked and there were other sessions. the nation breathed a sigh of relief when the announcement was made. a lot of people think it is not the most civilized way to go to this kind of argument. it is upon the judiciary to be a

democratic institution. but let me share, today, one of our online journalists brought a story which shows kenya voted along geographic and ethnic lines which is no surprise. all 12 counties -- from predominant ethnic groups and six counts where the main group. if you follow politics, ethnic is very strong. in northeastern provinces in

nairobi provinces. where he comes from and in the other province, a stronghold, only on the eastern province, that is where -- five counties winning. more numbers coming out. a window into -- and the ability -- on the record and took credit for some achievement some of

them started, and nasa, mostly on promises. nasa was put together just a few months ago in april, so were in nairobi. they are scrambling, now we put as our candidates, and putting the platform together, the jubilee, a tough job, these

candidates travel across, not -- they stop in modes and got a feeling of how it feels to travel across the country. i will stop there. and i would like -- to say a little something on that side. >> talk to me, come on.

in nairobi, go a few days before -- we got there a week before the election, in terms of preparations to the last political rallies, on the party side, have watched or looked at most of the elections, most of them. all the presidents from the later president, the father of the current president, i was -- i voted during president

keybacky, and in jubilees of time but then i was here. i have seen it all and what they would say from the journalists perspective point of view my assessment of how the election went, the process of preparing and voting and having gone to the way the current president's ballot on the eighth of this month, this was probably the best election in terms of preparation up to that point. ..

we're going to know that, i was speaking earlier, telling him what mr. raila odinga has done was right thing because even for us we are not pretty to the exact workings of what was happening behind the scenes when we were counting the votes. it was an opportunity for us to see through the judicial system do know, things happen or whether the did not happen and they are just crying for no good reason. so basically, yes, i think an issue, specific issue we may need to talk about. i'll be more than happy to

share. thank you. >> thank you. thank you very much. actually that's a good point. i just want to underline that i think most observers come certain most observers i've talked to would agree that this was an exceptionally well-run election. and particularly when contrasted with previous attempts we had some pretty severe technical breakdowns which then have led to an absence of all the confidence in the process. that was not an issue at this time. technical breakdowns were not an issue, and that said, i'm not sure that technology is also the answer, technology doesn't guarantee of free and fair election. but this was a big improvement for kenya. before we go to questions into the larger audience, i'd like to ask vincent and dr. hamza a question or two about the media and the medias coverage of the

election in kenya. you had teams all over the country, and can you share with us a little bit, can you tell us did those reporters that you had out in the field, or the able, did they have free access? was able to get to the polling stations? was able to talk to officials and talk to voters? and were voters wante willing tk to journalists and willing to share their experiences with the journalists? and secondly, you working alongside kenyan media and international journals would come in for this event, and maybe you can share with us some of your impressions about how did the media cover this? did the media do the right job in terms of truly telling the story of this election? >> well, if i may answer some of

those. if we had accreditation, we didn't have a problem accessing any place. we were able to go to any of the important areas we wanted to visit. it was polling day, we'll go to polling stations, nobody stopped us. for the tallying of the results with access to the election commissions tallying center and so there was no restriction. i don't think there was any problem speaking with either the participant in the campaign, the politicians. the challenge was they were moving around too much, especially the presidential candidates, pinning them down for a sitdown interview was a big challenge. their priority was elsewhere. they wanted to appeal to the voters, not too much interested in talking to some of us. so that was a big challenge, but as regards how the other media

houses covered, i observed them keenly but closely the local media, one of the things come at a no, we tried best to do a jo, a good job, kenyan journalism really free speech, rather space come in terms of media after many years of fighting to have freedom of expression in a way i feel like looking at how the elections were covered, the time before the actual elections were covered, there was an opportunity there because there were not many really strong well researched investigative journalists that kind of high quality pieces out there. the media in a way took the easier route of having several panelists in the stooges, and do

just talking, analyze what politicians had set out there. and many times use what is reported is what one side said and then their response on the other side, no serious investigation into how truthful are the statements, whether their claims of certain development projects, say we build 300 or 3000 house facilities. you wanted to go out and find out if billy that is true, when suddesuch claims are made againe other side, you know, how fair and truthful some of those claims by the opposition or by the government. so you felt like the media,, maybe didn't have the resources but you feel like there was something missing in helping to inform the citizenry on that for some of these claims and really making a fair assessment of where the country is five years after the last elections, in terms of whether the economic

development, job creation, the countryside development, how the monies that were allocated to the development of the local counties have been utilized, you didn't see a lot of really good serious reporting. reason i don't understand, but personally i felt like there were opportunities lost. >> i totally agree with what vincent just said in terms of the performance of the media, but let me go back to our own reporters. we didn't really get any problems in terms of access. we prepared to get access with the iebc, with a kenyan media counsel before hand. we had -- everyplace we got we had access. we had an incident though, you know, maybe you want to talk

about that. that was after the elections. the government was very sensitive about coverage, special of any protests, and, in fact, one of our correspondent who is based in nairobi was arrested one of those days just to cover some of those protests, was taken to the cid headquarters to be interviewed over why they were there. they made some claims that she had been seen bribing people to cause chaos. but, of course, that didn't happen. it wasn't the case and we had to go and try to get out of jail. they didn't keep her there for too long but that was i think oversensitivity of covering any

appearance of a protest after the postelection violence. the government has been very sensitive about that. and you can see censorship of the local media. almost across the board really avoid every coverage of demonstrations around the city, around the country. there was a little bit of that, but it comes from the events of 2007. i personally think the 27 to seven -- 2007 violence traumatize the country and created this monster where everybody is so terrified around election time that you don't want to really show any element of violence, you know, because there was a field that it could not only bring the members but, of course, also inside of the people to commit such crimes. >> and i think even the local media, we at the only we had our

limitations because we only have two hours a day on air, english to africa your four hours a day, so we have limitations in terms of time of the on air. the local media have a lot more time, but you will have to agree that the local media was under heavy pressure in terms of not to be seen to insight any kind of violence -- insight. and that led to them i think checking themselves, what do the cover, how do they cover it. as vincent said, there wasn't a lot of fact checking, for instance. whatever they candidates say, that's what would be reported without any kind of fact checking. and now in nairobi there are some institutions. during our training we brought

in a gentleman from an organization called africa check. there is an organization in africa called africa check. nigeria, nairobi, and they are doing a good job in terms of teaching journalists how to fact check, even if it's within a short period of time, and that was missing. so the local media had to work with this delicate balance of being socially responsible, and also calling it as it is. and i think if i was to give -- i would say that were working mostly on being socially responsible then calling the story as it is.

>> okay, thank you. let's open this up to questions or comments from our audience. i just would ask that you identify yourself and your organization. i should add that this is all on the record. we are completely transparent today. this is an on the record discussion. yes, sir. [inaudible] >> one and two, that's right, and he will go second. okay, thank you. >> thank you very much. this is a very stimulating panel. my name is dr. tom herlihy. i've been going in and out of kenya since 1980 when i was fulbright scholar, one of the

things oh that is always troubling about kenny is there are these extrajudicial killings. i think back to some other politicians and ambassador alluded to the murder of this gentleman to work for the electoral commissioner i was just wondering neither one of you have addressed that at all. if you just bring up to date on any news you might have about the police investigation into this murder and does it look like it was an extrajudicial killing, or what do you know about it today? thank you. >> let's take another question. yes, sir. >> high. matt, i work with international.

you started to talk about vincent, regarding the counties. certainly one of the big stories we've heard about kind more and academic forum not very much in the news media is this untold story about counties. certainly this is the first democratic transition of counties, the first election since, the second election since the first election five years ago, and so as more power and as more taxes get pumped into counties, i'm really wondering what is the untold story? certainly we can generalize about ethnicities and groups that are in these counties, but we know that a lot of them, many counties are also had erogenous. there are different groups and really wondering what the impacts are being felt across the country are. >> let me to that and you do the

counties question. the death is still going on,, officially that so we're told. as vincent said, the timing of his death, his disappearance and then murder was really disturbing. it left room for a lot of speculation, and the fact that this gentleman, he was described as a man in terms of how the iebc computer system secured the system. so when he disappeared and died and got murdered, at that time there was a lot of speculation that it could be political. but then around the time there was some stories, talking about triangle. he got killed with a young lady

with him. so there was a lot of speculations. the iebc was quick to come out and say his death won't affect the credibility of the computer system with the iebc. but the investigation so far unless there's any new news, the investigation so far is still going on so we don't know. [inaudible] >> -- part of the reason he died was to cover up the story. that he died because, as people have been saying, because he had some information that was very critical and somebody wanted that information and they thought it might have been used to get into the systems and, therefore, this is certainly something that we're going to

get more of when they go to court, because i'm sure, according to mr. raila odinga, his table come up in court. as hamza says, that's what we know for now, lisa the official position fromthe government and the iebc. >> so if i may, first, we know two of three things. he was murdered, tortured and the police launched an investigation. a few people arrested but up to net investigations are ongoing. we don't know why he was killed. nobody can say for sure why he was killed. that's where we stand and we wait and see. that is at least from journalistic perspective. that is what we are. we cannot speculate too much. for the history of kenyans

record for how well and quickly they resolve, the countries also issues of high-profile murders, perhaps unless something changes in the future, i don't think there's been a great record of wharesolving some of these issu. many of them after some time of actually been forgotten and we never got to know who murdered who and why and really critical who did and why they did it. many times gets lost in space of time and it's unfortunate really. so we'll somebody will get to the bottom of this and eventually no who killed him and why they killed him. now, taking the question of the counties, for many, many years kenyans have been clamoring for system that can allow developments to be, the management of the counties of their local areas of jurisdiction to be managed from,

by their own people in their own area. i think the county system is the best thing that ever happened to kenya. now with the default system of government, funds are allocated to the different counties. the counties acted just like the states in the united states and every county has a governor, has representatives and has other officials the run the different projects within the county. now, they have a great deal of development and the different regions of the country. some have gone really well and there is a good spirit of competition among governors to kind of do better than the other guys. a few of them have been really doing a fantastic job, but there's also been accusations of massive corruption. because everybody has now a little bit of control over funds within the local area and there

have been accusations that some of those local officials have pocketed some of the money that was meant to develop the counties. so that is very unfortunate, and it's across the board. some have accused governors and other officials that members of the opposition parties of corruption. some of the ruling coalition have been accused of the same corruption, seems to be kind of, something that has been seen as common among officials. and so that is the downside to it, but other than that i think the counties, it's a good thing that happened to kenyans in terms of holding their leaders accountable because now development is localized. it's been decentralized. used to be the president has to determine what happens in which part of the country, but now the local leaders determine what happens to the funds that are

sent to the different counties. >> let me just add a couple of points to those on the killing of chris msando, right, we don't know who the authors of this particular crime were we do know that kenya has, not just kenya, but kenya is that something of a history of the disappearance and assassination of political figures, prominent lawyers, of human rights activists, of witnesses. that happens. but even by the standards it seems to me this crime was particularly brazen and shocking. and it was meant to have an effect of some kind. this wasn't a casual crime. this someone hijacked at three m in downtown nairobi whose body is out in the rule force the next morning. no, this was meant to send a signal of some kind.

we just don't know exactly what the signal was. i do think that it in some way casts a shadow over this election. for me at least one of the enduring recollections of what otherwise is probably going to turn out to be a historically free and fair election is going to be this unexplained murder. the one signal and then send that is indisputable is one of impunity. i'm sure the authors of this crime were confident and acted confidently and with a sense of near-perfect impunity. the counties are an exciting story in kenya, absolutely, as vincent pointed out. these are some of the most hotly contested races. you know, the devolution of authority, the counties, was not a popular idea, at least in nairobi after the new constitution was passed, and

there was a slowness in implementing putting the machine are in place. but i think there's a great deal of popular support in kenya for this devolution of power. and a lot of popular enthusiasm in terms of voting for the constituent assembly representatives and for the governors and so forth. this is a lot of money. there are a lot of resources being pushed down to the county level and, in fact, there's a huge bill that goes along with that. public service bill. the salaries that are being paid in kenya now have led to a lot of complaints that this is maybe a great experiment democracy, but it is hugely expensive. the stakes are high at the local level. salaries are high. resources are there. so these races tend to be as hotly contested as the national races. i saw a poll, maybe this was a poll that nick showed me. this was a kenyan voters were asked which of the six ballots your casting is most important to you. because they voted for six

different offices. and as you'd expect most kenyans said the president is the most important one. but the second most important vote that the cast was for their member of the constituent assembly, which is the county legislator. that's an interesting sign that there's a certain degree of popular support for this idea of county support government. >> if i may add a point there. one of the promising things, the big advantage that you see on the ground is when you're in kenya is, for those of us who come from the region or who have worked there, you know, when young people finish school they all go to nairobi. they all go to the capital city. that's where the jobs are. now you have young people who go back to the counties because they know the money isn't there. so even if they have an idea that you wanted to implement in nairobi, let me go back to my

county, your place. so that i can establish a business there because there is funds coming from there. >> very quick point there. in fact, of the issue of the races, that's critical but i think it's unfortunate that happened at the same time of the presidential race. because many including the media focus on the presidential race. it was the story and it ended up in some ways subduing whatever is happening at the county level. that was an important race for most of those residents of those counties, the governor meant much more than some degree than who becomes the president of the nation. so unfortunately, you just hope someday perhaps the presidential race will be down at a different time. it will make a difference. >> yes, sir.

>> thank you. [inaudible] i just wanted to ask, try to reconcile that claim of -- with the fact that you believe party has absolute majority in nearby parliament, government, senators, and even women wraps. so are you saying that in addition of those reading that if the person does read of all the people who are also -- the fact that we have actually the

party has a big majority senate had in the last parliament. secondly, you are aware that kenya actually was voting for six versus, six elections in one. and then up to today there's not a single member of parliament, senator, governor who has disputed those results. they were accepted. for everybody. this is the same election. [inaudible] contains results for all the six races that were under competition. so i think we need to see how you can reconcile that claim of rigging. secondly, we have officially over 4000 election observers,

and the official number was actually 8000 without you all the polling positions of observing the election. the u.n., african union, european union, even -- its own observer team. and they were given a claim certificate, not even a single -- on the results. so i hope we can reconcile the claim for rigging. sadly, all the candidates come from the two teams, their own election -- in the polling station, and they took copies of the results at the polling station through their mobile phone. how come the 40,000 -- not a single thing have come up to claim about the results that they took each their own of the

polling station? the ones being announced they see different. so again, how can we reconcile that? let me just mention the christian center. i think iebc is, very clear in say that yes, there was an attempt to hack the system but it was not successful. and in the case of -- the presiding officers, wasn't given to them until two days or think one or two days before the election. so nobody had those passwords. so whatever they may have given out, that may not given out anything, actually was not very material. i'll say that the investigations that are being conducted by the police, they have some leads. they are now trying to figure

out where msando was between -- that is the missing piece. so just if you could talk more about that rigging and allegation. because it doesn't go well with the facts that are on the ground. ..

create i mpression that we own that claim of rigging, i don't think we, as a-- as a journalist have made any on the issue-- on the claim of rigging. all we do is we reported on what the opposition candidate said, he made certain claims and we, as reporters, made, you know, reported on his claims and then the responses from the ibc on how they secured their systems. so, we don't have any evidence or to ever, that there was any rigging and we cannot take sides on whether, you know, that the ipc or that side is

100% right on anything they're saying, but what we observed is that there was a system put in place. the ibc guaranteed everybody it was secured and, they had a system that could not be if with those attempts. they acknowledged the claims up to this point, none of us have seen any evidence, any of the evident evidence they have as regards the rigging attempts or hacking of the system. we never saw anything. we haven't been shown any documents or anything that can confirm any of those. so we look forward to observing the proceedings in court ap perhaps they could get revelation as to what really happened, but as journalists

doing our job, we did not necessarily take sides, embrace any of those accusations, we just reported on what we heard and we waited to see if there was anybody who could produce evidence to prove any of those. >> and that is why we're saying that the decision by them to go to court was the best decision for the nation because even the president-elect also asked the opposition if you're not happy with this, the results, go to court. so, the fact they're going to court, everything will come out in the open, and there is -- each side is, you know, stating their claim. the iebc, the official result is the--

won the elections and that's where it stands at the moment, but the onus is also on iebc to be transparent. everything that's not transparent so far, to be transparent. the eu called on iebc to make their-- i think there's some 2,900 forms, 34-a or b which haven't been made-- haven't been posted on the iebc systems. they're calling on them to do that. that's making sure there's transparent and result issues. >> one other point. in terms of the numbers in parliament, governorships and that, one thing one needs to recognize the dynamics this time around is really different. in terms of how they performed, forget about the presidential

race, but even the other races as ambassador says, it is true that the campaign was kind of different. we mentioned earlier, that the coalition had well-oiled machinery on the ground because they've been around since the last election, they've been literally campaigning since the last election. the opposition colin is a very new outfit. they were trying to find themselves, trying to kind of figure out how to move ahead and therefore they had some disadvantages. in all fairness, the jubilee coalition did an amazing job on the ground, focusing on areas where they did poorly last time. you can see they performed well in terms of the local races. parliaments, senators and governments and the ambassador said it's true. not many people have disputed the victories of some of those

officials from the opposition and so the dynamics were completely different this time than 2007 or even 2013. >> i want to thank you, ambassador, first of all, for being here and also for your comments this afternoon. the-- i guess one prediction we could have all made before this election is that it was going to end up in the courts, regardless of which side appeared to win, which side claims victory and even in this case appears to be a clear-cut and decisive win by president kinyatta and jubilee and it's going to end up in the courts and that's not entirely a bad they think. how reconciled are kenyans to the results, particularly those

on the losing end of it. anything that can be done to achieve that result that reconciles, particularly the losing side, to the result. it's worth pursuing that and i think that the court process might have-- might in the end have that beneficial effect. >> crack down post election on the those operating, particularly to anyone-- >> because everybody is suspicious of the timing of cracking down on those ngo's, but of course, you've probably heard that that was reversed, the government requested the ngo coordinating body to kind

of let that slide for now, for the next 90 days. and claims that they hadn't been paying taxes, have employed foreigners without permits, now i personally am not privy to all of those details, whether the-- they have issues with the taxes or employment of foreigners, i don't know about that, but of course, anything happening at a certain time can be seen as suspicious because people speculated when would not go to court that they would probably go by proxy through some of those organizations then. one of the two people think about actually are the ones that will have banned or were nearly banned until that ban was kind of lifted. so, of course, those suspicions why do you want to crack down on those organizations at this moment, but at the same time we don't know whether truly-- perhaps they had committed some

of this crimes, if you call them so. >> thanks for sharing your experience. i think there would be no elections without the people of kenya. so i'm wondering, do you think that education-- this is a question for you vincent. the reason i say that, is because i think in the past you could easily convince people to do something they're not supposed to do and they'll vote for you. this time around it seems things are different, but also, do you think we underestimated the will of the people of kenya when it comes to post election violence? because the whole world thought they would have post election violence, but it didn't happen. how much credit can we give the voters themselves? >> well, those indications, they tried but there was an

agreement effectively and in good time and perhaps why we had so many spoiled ballots, i think close to what, 70-- 300,000. >> quite a substantial amount and they said it was because quite a number of people did not get voter education so they made mistakes. some were just cases they said the person would put a line in one box and kind of overflows to the other box and that becomes a spoiled ballot. there are issues, also, helping people with disabilities, including blind people and others who couldn't possibly identify, who you know, who they're electing. so there's an agreement in kenya, those education hasn't been to all. so that's something to everybody agrees. >> in terms of ballots, personally i was optimistic that there wouldn't be any

widespread violence and the international media-- we knew there would be a few protests here and there, but kenyans, when you speak to people, most kenyans have no op ti op-- appetite for violence. i think as i mentioned earlier kenyans were traumatized by the events of 2007. i'm not too old, but i don't think in our lifetime we've seen anything close to 2007. after that time, majority of kenyans would not allow the country to slide back to 2007. whatever happened in this election. and credit goesto the kenyans, and voters to make a statement through the ballot and of course, maintain the peace. we have a few protesters here and there, ts expected, but kenya is not about to burn up.

it doesn't matter who tries to incite them into violence, kenyans are in the going to turn on their country. >> while you're waiting for that, let me say, everything considered, i completely agree with you. i think the winners are kenyan people. you see the way they turned out for the vote, it was 78, 79, almost 80% voter turnout and you don't get that in a lot of countries. you don't get that in the usa. so, the fact that people came out and they endured the light to exercise their right. i mean, that was a, you know, a display of knowledge, of knowing that this is our right, and we have to go out there and exercise it. so, definitely, they were the first winners.

whatever, you know, the result is, the kenyan people were the first winners. and also, i think the fact that there was no widespread violence this time, i think it's kind of a tradition this we probably won't see anything like 2007 ever again 'cause -- and when we covered the electio elections, before the elections, there was a lot of effort, even young musicians, you know, kenyans, they have this, you know, the kind of music they call kenya flavor kind, and they were releasing a lot of videos on peace, you know, during the elections, so that was, you know, a measure of this is what we're expecting and they got that to a big extent.

>> actually just what i wanted to stay, but also to a charge exte extent, also, the candidates themselves towards the end of the campaign they came out, a concerted effort. even from the government itself and nowgoing to zero of peace. i remember president kenyatta offered the meetings and almost pleading the electorate not to get into situations where they'd fight. and the last meeting, it was all peace, so in regards towards that same message of peace and to his point that we-- it's unlikely that kenya is going to have a tour. people are wise somehow.

they're really much wiser after going through that period. they know even if they're told to fight their neighbors, they would think twice. that's part of it in my thinking. thinking. >> we have time for a couple more questions. so, i come to you second. all right. thank you. >> i'd first like to thank the panelists and echo this being a stimulated discussion especially as someone who doesn't know about the kenya election. i know it's been dubbed the chopper election, an estimated 90 helicopters registered for politicians to campaign in different parts of the country that reflects a growing disparate between candidates and the people and people from lower statuses being able to

run in the lower office. i as an american have a billionaire has a president. but i wanted to ask you if you could comment on election techniques or campaign techniques in kenya and sort of if you could come with any trends or predict developing trends that you see in the future of how future elections will be handled. >> take a question, take second question and-- >> thank you. my name a gabriel. i work for a contractor. before the elections the al-shabaab terrorist group has promised to disrupt the election by any possible means and i was wondering if there had been attempts for them to do so, and whether or not they were successful at a local-- >> the one on the campaign

techniques, kenyan campaign, presidential campaigns, actually would he very much had a copter affair. there was a lot of money being made about these, they crisscrossed the country. one of the things in a way, i think he immediately said look how much money is being spent out there and whether at that also was speaking to the disparates you're saying between those who have and those who don't. if you look at how much it costs or a helicopter, i think it was estimated at about $3,000 per hour and for months and months we saw these helicopters landing in places and there was a big show of force and many out there in the campaign, on the campaign trail. unfortunately it's not

transparency how much was spent and-- in many cases nobody is using this as a way to kind of question the-- why we have such disparate between those who have money and those who don't have. the politicians land in places and just blow off dust from the faces of thousands of poor people and they just fly away after giving them a few promises. i thought perhaps that could have been used as a-- kind of a basis to discussi how we will we're doing. in some cases the politicians fly to these places and back because they have no-- there are no good roads and accessible pulling him over his places. the idea that could have been, i think, a basis to do a story on the development of the

ground and how much money is spent by politicians to conduct the campaigns. some people said the reason why we have a lot of corruption of the system is having so much spending hoch money, some people have to try and regroup this and it comes through by an acceptable reasons. how true, that's a legitimate question. >> one more-- >> that's a structural, you know, regulations that could be put in place in the coming electionsment financial disclosure how much money is spent during these elections. how are they getting this money. where are they getting this money? in kenya like many african companies, there are no real regulations when it comes to

how you collect your campaign money, how you spend it. so whoever can collect more and they can spend, you know, as much as they want, nobody knows where this money is coming from. there could be another stage in kenya politics in terms of streamlining the democratic institutions to getting real credible elections. as far as al-shabaab. we, yeah, there were those threats, but there were no reported incidents of al-shabaab attacking a period close to the elections or during the election day. as i said, we had streamlined and we're watching that closely, but i think there was an incident today, sometime this week by al-shabaab, but they-- you know, they didn't -- they

wanted an international study about the elections with violence. >> and sometimes in the run-up to the election there are claims that the government is straining sources for great options. in fact, we're in the time, a press from al-shabaab and some of that was that the elections we were-- they can take credit for that. they've provided enough to have the election take place even in some of the frontier counties, fairly peacefully. nobody was intimidated. nobody failed to go to the polling station for fear of an al-shabaab attack. >> i think that's right. in some ways there had been an up-tick in al-shabaab attacks before the election, mostly on

military convoys and along the border with some somalians and some thought it would be a bigger effort, but for whatever reason that did not occur so that actually to be an interesting substance of analysis, because they couldn't do it or the security services turned it off and couldn't contain it. interesting story though. on the election campaign, i would add a couple of things, it's always astonished me to the extent to which kenyan politics are so demonstrative and candidates travelling from one big rally to the next in every corner of the country. so there's a tremendous amount of showmanship, even by americans standards and naturally all the money changes hand on this, people need to get transportation paid for and meals paid for. that's a lot of money being passed out. >> guest: i was struck by the

giant lauries on the road and jamming the highways in support of their candidates. and the most important kenyan politicians even down to the level of the governor or members of constituent assembly have fairly security entourages. they're sometimes formal and sometimes they're left formal and sometimes they're entourages for one purpose and not there the next day. he think before the election, there was a woman given the stakes in this, there could be violent crashes between armed groups before the election and that did not happen. that did not happen. the campaigning itself didn't spill over in a charged

atmosphere especially people are running around with guns. actually sounds like a preparation of united states, but do we have time for maybe a couple more questions? and then-- >> i'm a serious associate with csis here and i was hoping the panel could speak more about the recent police killings, particularly if it looked like it was directed from the top or as ambassadors bellamy mentioned it was more trigger happy policemen and without the independent police overnight authority listed up about five years ago is investigating on that front. thanks very much. >> and there was this woman here. >> sorry i can't get to everybody, but i think--

>> hi. >> kathleen with the international republican institute. thanks so much for your comments today. my question is regarding use of women in this election. we saw that there still-- while there were some success stories, you know, first women on being elected to the foreign government seats. and we are a small reputation of women who represent a lot portion of the kenyan population. in the last evil. -- and in the gender role, could you speak about the dynamics of women in the election and what might need to happen to have broader representation going forward? >> i'd like to take that. very quickly on the killings. there was no evidence there was an order from above to kill

citizens, but, of course, i think as the ambassador mentioned before, might have been trigger happy. someone may have tried to quill these organizations, there's no evidence that somebody would order this. in terms of your question on women, in fact, women performed is he well for the first time kenya has female governors, there are three of them. three fee man governors and senators. and as the ent ament, a member of prlment. i think that the progression towards embracing more women leaders and young leaders. it's a factor. all campaign to some degree is determined by how much money you have. ap one of the young fellows who

won is called-- i forget the member. >> and [inaudible] >> a student of university, but-- >> and the journalist as well. >> and they have a lot of money we don't. i don't know where he gets the money from, that's in capital and propelling to that position. he every -- it's just how he got in, i don't know. there are nnl-- financial factors and we don't have many women with that kind of money and young men and women don't have that kind of money. there are a number of people. one was a crook and-- i think this election took

kenya to another level. it gives promise in the coming years people will be elected on their character and judged not by how much money they have, whether they're male or female or youth. so i think there is progress being made. there's hope. >> all right. >> are we wrapping up? >> i was going to sort of start to wrap up. >> okay, well, may i-- >> please. >> i just want today say, most of you know that the u.s. governmented-funded organization, but i wanted to make this disclaimer here that our remarks do not reflect the views of the u.s. government. this is purely the voice of ameri america.

america. >> all right. we will take note. it's been a very, very interesting discussion today and i think this is probably the first of what may be a number of discussions because inevitably it will turning to the attention of election, but where is kenya going in the longer term for kenya. i want to thank our two guests today and this is the first-- not the firsttime i've worked with voa. and the first time with guests on the panel at voa. ambassador, thank you for joining us today and thank all of you for coming out this afternoon to be part of this discussion. thanks. [applause]

[inaudible conversations] >> tonight on c-span, an indepth look at the opioid epidemic. we talk on the drug cartel's pizza delivery system and opioids. spiking deaths in certain areas create a demand. here is a look. >> i think you see the drug dealers, they're great marketers, it's amazing. i mean, the whole-- this whole system is all about customer service and it's all about delivery. i mean, i tell people that if you look at heroin, mexican drug cartels have a business

model. they ship it into our southern borders and into ohio control it on the street and at some poent -- and it's a delivery system, i call it pizza delivery, they get you started and i'm told, not a medical expert. theearly stage heroin addict and the late stage, the amount 100 to 1. what goes from $100 a day habit to $1,000 habit. the reason i think you get to fentanyl, one it's easier for the drug dealers to get and cheaper for them and they can make more money on it and number two, it's a way to broadcast that you know, this is something different. this is a better high. the irony, the irony is that

when we get a situation where five, six, seven people die in a weekend in some city in ohio, able because we're on to fentanyl or carfentanil, it's a different potency and the demand appears to go up. and we worry, we put the bulletin out and local law enforcement says be very, very careful. we worry we're just encouraging people to take a higher high. it's just, nothing makes sense about this and you know, i think it's clear the brains are altered and a person buying it is not looking at it rationally or the way you and i would be looking at it they not being addicts. >> tonight a look at opioid addiction, state officials on the front line and lawmakers from the hardest hit areas will join us and we want to hear

from you, we'll open our phone lines to hear how the opioid epidemic has affected you personally. see it starting at 8 p.m. eastern on c-span. >> this weekend on book tv the saturday 10 a.m. eastern, live at the mississippi book festival. features authority, mark bowden and his book 1968, a turning point of the war vietnam. and alvin on his book, a man and his president, the political odyssey of william f buckley. and we have a guest on after words. sweeping away all concerns about what people might say about you or think about it, safe in the knowledge that if you tell the truth and you do it in an entertaining way, that you will win way more fans than

the media has made enemies for you. >> and then the at 10 p.m. discusses his book breakthrough our guerilla war to expose fraud and save democracy. >> it's very hard to break through to the mainstream media. we did a story on cnn, hidden cameras and cnn didn't mention a word about it. the motion of getting on the new york times or anderson cooper talking to you, number one thing on twitter, these are what we call breaking through. >> for more on the schedule go to book tv.org. >> general david perkins is responsible for selecting, recruiting and training u.s. army forces. his job is to predict where future fighting will occur and