but has to do with, we believe, the magnetic waves and fields that are available to -- from active lesions on the sun. >> well, we thank you for your time and sharing your thoughts with us this morning. appreciate it. >> you're welcome. >> we'll have coverage all day monday, beginning at 7:00 a.m. with washington journal live from the flight center in maryland, and then at noon, we'll have a simulcast with nasa tv on c-span. now we return to our focus on manufacturing and labor with andy pudzer, was president trump's first nominee for labor secretary before withdrawing his name. his book it is titled "job creation: how it really works and why government doesn't understand it." >> the book it called "job

creation, howe it really works and why government doesn't understand it." the co-author is andy pudzer. mr. pudzer, you talk about the certainty factor in your book. >> guest: yes. well, at the time we wrote it back in 2009, 2010, there was a lot of uncertainty in the economy because of actions that president obama was taking, but went along processsive lines as opposed to conservative economic lines which i think the business community would have preferred. so with respect to tax, with respect to energy, with respect to regulation there was great uncertainty in the business community about where the government was going and what kind of an obstacle it would become. so we tried to convey the message the government would provide some positive certainty so we could rise out of the recession -- we will still in the recession until june of 2009 so we were out of it technically but i don't think people for years felt we were actually out of it in reality.

you want that kind of dynamic economic growth that you're expecting out of a recession you have to do some positive things and give the business community some certainty you're not going hurt them. >> host: what are some of the measurement that go into the book. >> guest: tax reform, energy policy, regulatoriy reform, and reduced spending, reduced government spending. this was the only trump agenda item we didn't hit was healthcare reform. this was 2009 and-10, an-but not as big an issue as today witch didn't know what a negative impact it would have on the economy at that point in time. so, we covered the other four. again, spending, tax reform, regulatoriy reform and energy policy. >> host: well, you talk about regulatoriy reform in the book. can you give an example of what you would like to see as a former corporate ceo. >> guest: sure. you can take it as a state and local or federal level itch was in california at the time, so we could spend the entire segment

talking about one tenth of the problems businesses have in california with regulation. on the federal side, it was the constant influx of new regular layings, such as that of the department of labor, who was putting in new requirements michaeling it easier to unionized, and the black bit offing regulation, regulations that were going to require attorneys to disclose the discussions they were having with their employer clients during the course of attempts to unionize; crawled black blitzing. the employer standard where they tried to make franchisors jointly responsibility for the franchisees, and would completely destroy the franchise model. had to increase to $48,000 the salary level below which you had to pay overtime pay. even if you had somebody who was managing a restaurant and got an

incentive based bonus, which would have hurt particularly franchise restaurant business, retail businesses in general, economically. all of this was coming down the pike. you anticipated that with a progressive secretary of labor, progressive secretary of the treasury, very progressive president, that we were going to have some real problems and were trying to stave those off to get americans working again. job creation isn't a template the government envisioned it to be. not something that inevitably occurs. not a financial cycle you can look into and would go up. that's what the president's advisors thought tet, they thought come offing of the recession would get 4% gdp but claim that is impossible but in 2002 the government projected 4 percent gdp growth thinking that were coming out of the recession cycle. said with different poll joys can hit those numbers. without them you can't.

>> host: you write the unfortunate reality is that federal spending initiatives are actually intended to expand the power and influence of government rather than improve the economy and create jobs. >> guest: this is really the progressive philosophy. the progressive movement started with president will son and the only president who was more progressive than barack obama but the idea has been to expand government power texas put the ability to control the economy in the hands of an elite group of people, political appointees, the bureaucracy, and academics and top elected officials. rather than having the direction of the economy driven by consumers and by consumer purchasing. so, i think rahm emanuel said it best. you don't want a crisis to go to ace. whenever there's been a crisis, whether it was the early 1900s or the great depression or the recession, there's always the expansion of government as the solution to our problems when

all it really does is prolong the problems because the goal isn't actually to create economic growth. the goal is to expand government, empower an elite group who will then redistribute the benefit, the wealth of the nation, more equally. which takes every -- more equally lower than higher, but instead of raising everybody up it lowers everybody down. they view that as a more just society. we say you get a more just society by generating growth. president kennedy said a tide lifts all boats. we wanted to help create a tide that would lift everybody's economic boat and make it easier for working class people to get to the middle class, making it easier for work class kids to find jobs, reducing income inequality by increasing everybody's income, not decreasing the top and increasing the bottom. >> host: in your book you focus on employment rather than unemployment. why is that? >> guest: i think that should be the -- me focus into be how to

get people back into jobs. what causes somebody to hire a person? when you have -- take one of our restaurants, our restaurants employ 25 people. i think most people think about it that way. you think the restaurant has 25 employees. but if go to the concentric civiles we hire people to build the restaurants to design the restaurants, construct workers pout the restaurants together, people that -- the farmers and the cattlemen who tend the herds and grow the crops. the processors that take the cattle and the crops and turn it into foot that we get in grocery stores and restaurants. the guys who drive the trucks that deliver the food. you have concentric circles of restaurants and all of those people buy clothes go to the movies, they send their kids to school, they do all of the things that help generate economic growth. if you can focus on the four businesses and find a way to cause them to grow, you're going to see real economic growth and then all of these concentric circles overlap with other

businesses which is how america went from 13 back woods colonies in the late 1700s to a nation that is almost devastated and destroyed in a civil war hundred's and thousand of americans died to 1885, the largest economy in the world, and by world war i, the highest standard of living in the world. this is because of an economic system that relied on individuals and empowered consumers, encouraged individuals not only to create economic growth and benefits but to keep the benefits of the growth to themselves and automatically benefits everybody else because people they try and grow and benefit themselves, inned a vert at any timely -- adam smith -- benefit everybody else. so it's really a system that works tremendously well and we saw somebody putting a -- the hour glass of economic growth. we want them to take the cork out. >> host: what do you see -- what has been your role in it. >> guest: cke restaurants,

carl's start with a cart in -- he is the -- started with a hot dog cart in 1941. by the time i met him in the 1980s he had a half billion dollar public company called cke restaurants carl's junior. >> guest: yes. in the late 80s the bought hardees, and got in financial trouble in the late nine inside and the 2000 i was the general counsel nor company think appointed me as the ceo, chief executive officer, to take the company -- i think either sell it or take into it bankruptcy. realize quickly that would be a mistake win. had 75,000 people working for the company that would have lost their jobs. the franchiseees would have lost their investment. we needed to try fix this. had a great team. we did fix it. we're now -- retired april 2nd april 2nd and we had 3,800 restaurants and 44 states and 41 foreign countries and 20% of the

restaurants now are overseaes. so it was a lot of fun, and i have to say i'm enjoying retirement after 16 years as ceo but it was a fun 16 years. >> host: what are you doing. >> guest: i'm actually writing a book. have a deal with a publisher to write a book. it was going to be about how i thought hillary clinton and barack obama really worked together to dish if not destroy, at least significantly demean the american free enter surprise system which created great opportunities for people and built a wonderful country. with president trump having been elected now can write about how president trump with the proper support in congress in particular, given what has happened lately but with the proper support can bring back that american dream spirit, that lift evidence this nation so high and make america great again. we have real potential and i want to talk about the dish adopt think people know about woodrow wilson and what he did to the country, his disrespect

nor constitution. a lot of thing -- franklin room. who didn't want the help of the business sector dooring the great depression. he actually said in a speech, they should leave us alone. lawyer not constructive. and then relied on government. how government expanded and maybe expanded too much. that's not say that government doesn't have a role. it does have a role. and it's a constructive role and i think government can be very meaningful, but like anything it can be overdone and i think we have seen it grossly overdone, particularly the last eight years. >> host: why died you withdraw from consideration as labor secretary. >> guest: i didn't have enough votes to get confirmed. if i had enough votes to get confirmed i would have stuck it out to the end instead of having this very pleasant conversation in the beautiful paris hotel. identity be beading my brains out in washington, dc as i'm sure alex acosta is. there was an adverse reaction to

betsy devos being approved of second of education, chuck schumer then identified me to go after. the press was merciless, dishonest, some other interview we can talk about the fake news during this confirmation process. i got beat up pretty bad and it made some of the more liberal republicans a little nervous, once you lose people -- you start out losing two, the two that didn't vote for betsy, weren't going to vote for me no matter what. but you lose one more they get nervous and the laundry list went on of disstoressed stories and the more nervous it made people. the presidency reported that i hadn't filed my government ethics papers and must be something wrong because i couldn't -- i was like the first guy to file. filed january 3rd. the problem was the office of

governmentth hicks, headed by an obama appointee, wouldn't react to my papers. they sat on them for six or seven week. in the meantime the presses beating me up. schumer makes me the target. some republicans got nervous and i didn't want the the president to suffer defeat on the senate floor that hat my name attachment it to. so discretion being the better part of valor i withdrew. >> host: you are portrayed as being antiunion. >> guest: i'm very supportive of collective bargaining. you look back to the late 1800s the early 1900s, and the unions had great victory with respect to child labor, eight-hour work day, eventually workers compensation insurance and retirement. the unions had great victories. do think that the unions are currently struggling for relevance. in the private sector they're down to 6.4% representation of

the work force, for the public and government combined it's only 10.7. that's 100-year low. not that low since like 1915, 1916. so, they're really struggling to be relevant and in doing so they're not focusing on what would create jobs, what would create economic growth. they're trying attract number's into the unions. trying to use government to bring numbers into the union and that can be overdone. so, for example, the fight for 15. the $15 minimum wage. there was a report out of the san francisco fed that said it hurts low-skilled workers the very worker -- not like the san francisco fed is the bastion of conservative economic policy. in san francisco they have gone to 13, going 15ment he harvard business school says it causes restaurant closures to increase four to ten percent for every dollar it went up. arvad not a bastion of economic conservative'll so i. in seattle where they want to 13,

the university of washington, liberal based school, said that the minimum wage increase seattle just to 13, going to 15 -- had already taken down most skilled workers hours nine percent and depride them of $125 a week in earnings. these people can't afford this. this hurts low-skilled workers, hurts -- i used to work in baskin robbins, i'm glad i had that job. taught me a lot about inventory, taking care of customers, showing up on time, the thing iowa learn he you hasn't of entry-level job. they're going kill the entry level job but gives them something to talk about on tv, gets the union something to draw members in and look like they're helping work erred and they're really not. in fact, i'm against certain of the policies that's unions are pursuing to generate more union votes. i'm not at all opposed. think collective bargain its i workers should absolutely have the right to do. >> host: does carl's or hardees have restaurants in seattle and

san francisco and how would that affect an individual restaurant. >> guest: we do have franchise restaurants in seattle and fran seasons. the franchisees loyal the employees pay the becames and just prices. to the extent that it make is harder to hire people so your labor cost god up because you have to pay these increased wages, the ten den si is to automate. the tendency is to reduce the number of your employees. or reduce hours -- or to close restaurants, which is exactly what the harvard business school and the university of washington study showed happened. i didn't need studies to tell me that happened. did it in "wall street journal" opeds and rare clear politics and was ridiculed for and it characterized as antiunion, although i'm not. actually, i've been trying to convince the restaurant industry and the franchise association to increase to go for an increase in the minimum wage. it is too low. it could go to nine dollars,

there's a level at which you can increase the minimum wage and not kill entry level jobs. i'm for raising it to that level. $15 an hour kills jobs and businesses and hurts low-skilled workers, lesser-skilled workers. it's bad for the american worker, and it's apparently good for union membership but not good for much else. >> host: you quote freedman in your book, one of the great mistakes is to judge government policies and programs by their intentions rather than their results. >> guest: athlete absolutely right. such a good quote. absolutely the way every government program should be judged. look at the war on poverty. the intention was to reduce poverty. it hasn't reduced poverty. knee -- if we were losing a real war, war in another country, we would change our tactics to win the war. we are still going -- not only going with the same tacticked that failed but we put more money into them. this is not a good plan. we have a president that its

willing to change that. if we can get political commitment, some political energy going, particularly in the senate issue think we can solve a lot of these problems and make a lot of improvemented. that's i would we need the senate to get onboard. >> host: what would have been your first action as labor secretary? >> guest: i wanted to -- number one i wanted to implement policies that would help create job inside the inner cities elm i think the policies implemented over the past eight years have hurt job growth. want to sigh the entry level jobs reenter the cities itch want to see people get prepared for the jobs that exist so we would have a apprentice ship and internship programs and coordinate with the private sector. the government spends 300 -- 300 million a year on jobs training. or 200 billion -- excuse me -- 30 billion, and the private sector spend'd hundred billion. so let's court nate with the

private sector so that we're not, like, running around doing crazy things with our money that don't make sense when the people that have the jobs and are willing to train people for those jobs and are looking for people to fill those jobs -- computer programmers, welders, construct worker -- they can't find the people to fill the jobs. we have 6 million job ohms the country. a 'historic high. never been 6 million job openings. we need to train people to fill them and get people in the inner city into the american dream. get into the process. into the system. when i work at baskin-robbins, the proudest day of my professional career was when the franchiseee manager owner of the restaurant hand me the key and said you're the assistant general manager. you can open in the morning. opened that store the next morning. bet it was the cleanest restaurant in america in a half hour. such pride and accomplishment. the kind of thing that keeps you out of a gang, keeps you in your family, keeps you in school. the pride that leads you to a

better life and a more profitable existence than -- keepsout of gangs and away from the drugs. does things that are so meaningful to people that are underestimated. those jabbed don't exist in the inner city because people are afraid to go in. they're not seeing the growth in inner cities we should see and i would have done everything i could to try to increase that. i also would have attacked the regulatoriy jungle that secretary perez created. think most people have seen secretary perez as chairman of the democratic party and can get a pretty good idea what he was doing for the six years he was secretary of labor and a lot needed to be undone. the department really overreached in a number of areas. but we need to take it down some. and would -- there's a woman in the department of labor, ivanka trump. she has some very, very good policies with respect to -- particularly family leave. i was -- by the time i graduated

from law school -- i worked my way through law school, didn't have government or family assistance. my family couldn't help and there wasn't a government program. i graduated. my wife was pregnant, we had two kid. remember what it was like getting to the end of the month and the money didn't make it. and so there are things that i think government can do to help. if we relieve the burden on business and -- better tax rates, better regulatoriy policy, get rid of this horrifically burdensome health insurance system we have you might be able to do things with family live, do really help people. would have been very happy in the administration trying to do those things and at the same time help president trump generate economic growth, which is his focus. mick mulvaney has the make america great economics. it's tax reform, regulatory areee form, healthcare reform,

smarter immigration policy, it's smarter trade policy, it's reduced spending. had a great aural in the "wall street journal" and i wish i were there helping are this is a place to be and we're going to hawai'i next week keeps telling me how better a time we would have than if i stayed in but i'd love to be in the fight and i'm helping the president in every way i can from here. >> host: you talk about healthcare reform. how did the affordable care act affect one of your franchisees, for example. >> guest: well, significantly increased health care -- health insurance costs for everybody and it not only increased the cost of labor, which labor costs have been going up dramatically but also had a dramatic impact on the dollars that people had available to spend, because over the past -- healthcare colorado went up i think seven percent or eight percent last year and

projected to go up 25% this year, more next year. this is money that people would spend in retail. i wrote al aural in "wall street journal" last fall about the restaurant recession. restaurants have gone into a recessioner in period and the research showers your healthcare insurance premiums went up, you were 30% more likely not to visit a restaurant as much as you did previously. so, this is that -- and it isn't just restaurants. it's people that are looking to buy clothes. maybe wear your shirt a year longer than you might otherwise have or getting a new car. anything in retail, people -- if you take money out of the system you'll hurt retail businesses and restaurants were hurt by that. it's across the board. the current systems are devastating but nowhere near as devastating on the individuals who have to pay the health insurance premiums and incredible high deductibles, don't know where it's going to

go next year should be very concerned about where the system is talking the cost of health care and health insurance, a good solution, hope the senate does get behind it, that gets rid of government come position, reinvigorates competition and i'm hoping that the senatorsing figure that out and get hint. >> host: is it fair in the reading of job creation to say you're suspicious of bureaucrats. >> guest: oh, yeah. absolutely. this was -- again, going back to woodrow wilson, he wrote about this extensively. he believed that the way the government should be run wasn't by elect officials. it was bay bureaucracy, it was by professional inside the bureaucracy, who would execute the functions of government free from control by the political system, and i think we're seeing a lot of that. there's a lot going in the fourth branch of government that is beyond the control of the president, beyond the control of congress, more beyond the

control of congress than pre president but certainly beyond the control of congress, and some of the president. look at the problems that president trump has had trying to get the regulatoriy state, theirself bureaucracy, under control. all of these leaks, things coming out that nobody wants to come out. you have policies going forward that shouldn't be going forward. it's become a behemoth and congress needed to get it under control. don't trust it. think it needs to be reduced and gotten under control so the people that we elect, the people who are responsive to the american people, the people who answer to them, are in charge of what is happening, not a bunch of bureaucrats or academicians who get appointed to a government post. >> host: can the congress or president make a devils in the economy or does it chug along. >> guest: since the beginning of the year we have had meaningful regulatoriy reform under president trump and even since the election we have had very, very meaningful increase in

business optimism. what has been the result in the economy? well there are 620,000 more people working from february to june of this year, according to the bureau of labor statistics. last year it was 47,000. of those 620,000 people, there are almost a million more people working full-time jobs 4 , hundred thousand fewer people working part-time jobs. more people working the jobs are better. we're seeing -- claims for unemployment insurance are 44 year low, going back to early 1970s when there were 68 million fewer people in the population. i'm talking the number of people filing claims for unemployment insurance. we have seen median household income increase more since january, january dish think just through the first the months ofee year, is creased $1,300. during the entire seven and a half years of the obama recovery, it increased $1,000.

so, more of an increase in median household income since the beginning of this year through seven and a half years of the supposed recovery. this we have seen house hold wealth -- net worth hit historic highs. never this high, $27 billion higher than before the recession. job openings hit a record high at 6 million. you have seen how many -- i can't remember the number cut it's like maybe 20, 30, record highs in the new york stock exchange and the stock market. the stock market price goes up when businesses and investors are enthusiastic about the future. they don't invest 0 on the past or presentment they invest on where they believe things are going we're hitting historic highs almost every week. we hit another one today, before yesterday, maybe even yet i was busy speaking yesterday so didn't keep track. we're seeing real dynamic economic improvement since

president obama -- since president trump was nationated and that's just with regulatoriy reform. can you imagine the type of economic growth if we can do tax reform and healthcare reform, infrastructure spending. if we can implement the policies that he said he wants to implement, that heirs entire cabinet and particularly the director mulvaney are advocating that -- i think we'll see 3%. you have businessmen who underproof and try to underperform. think 3% is underperforming. if he can execute the policies and congress will work with them we'll see very dynamic economic growth and, gosh, sure hope the senate wakes up and smells the rows. politics is a team sport. guys on the team have to realize it's a team sport. they don't seem to be aware it's a team sport. we need that kind of commitment to policy, commitment to our objectives and our goals, committedment to fulfill the promises we made as republicans. we need the kind of commitments

the democrats had in 2008 and so far i'm not seeing it. >> host: whoa is you cao author david newton. >> guest: an economist with west mont college at the time he wrote the book and now teaching in san diego. a good guy. a number of books out there. and we had a lot of fun writing the book. >> host: book came out in 2009-2010. >> guest: december of 20. >> host: is it still relevant today? >> guest: yes. matter of fact it's very relevant today. really talks a lot about how businesses grow and develop. it isn't so much a book for 20. it's a book for people that wonder how government views -- particularly progress give governments view the jobs and how they can help the economy and how conservatives and conservative economic principles work much better to generate -- help the economy. and why its that an easy at the same time to make but it explains a great deal why that's

true, and i think that's important for people to understand. certainly don't learn it in school. not something you'll teach in an economics class. >> host: final question. how do you get your message beyond the opinion page of "the wall street journal," beyond the libertarian convention? >> guest: first, i'm writing a book, and i'm really -- it really is a lot of fun to write. it can be frustrating at types but i wake up at 6:00 in the morning and the first thing want to do is run to the computer. the other way i go on television, fox business, cnbc, squawk pockets, i've been on nbc a few times since the election, which i enjoy. i get to reach an audience that its festivity done they audience i reach on fox or fox business or cnbc. so, when people ask me to talk, if i'm able to, i go and do it, and it's an important message to get out. it means a lot. america has given a lot to me.

really want to give back to the country, which is why i was willing to serve as secretary of labor, it's not an easy thing to do. would have been much easier to retire and spend time with my wife and kids and write, which is what i'm going to do. but the reason i wanted to serve is -- look there isn't a country in the history of the world a working class kid like could aspire to level of success i have achieved with any ration alcohollans of achieving. my grandfather grew up in country where there wasn't a path to get on to lead you here. that's a word that needs to be spread and i'll do everything -- doing the interview with you. hope that reaches people as joel job creation is the name of the book. available journal, the sub tootle, "how it really works and government doesn't understand it." andy pudzer is the co-author. this is booktv on c-span2. >> book tv is on twitter and facebook. and we want to hear from you. tweet us;

>> friday, on c-span, at 8:00 p.m. eastern, a profile interview with secretary of health and human services, tom price. >> i think that my passion for trying to help people and my passion for a healthy society, this just fees look the cull minimum make of a -- culmination of a life's work, to the 20 plus years in clinical -- and the representative life, the state senate and in congress, and to have the opportunity now at this time, this pivotal time in our nation residents history and a system, we have to leave this remarkable department is fulfilling as anything. >> followed at 8:30 by a conversation with supreme court elena kagan.

>> you said at the very beginning of our conversation, we're not a pure democracy, we're a constitutional democracy, and that means that the judiciary has an important role to play in policing the boundaries of all the other branches, and that can make the judiciary an unpopular set of people, when they say to a governor or president or congress, you can't do that because it's just not within your constitutional powers. >> watch on c-span and c-span.org, and listen using the free c-span radio app. >> this weekend on booktv:

trolling is about sweeping away all concerns what people might say or think about you, safe in the knowledge that if you tell the truth, and you do it in an entertaining way, that you will win way more fans than the media has made enemies for you. >> then at 10:00 p.m., james o'keefe, founder and president of project veratas discuss this book: break through." >> very hard to break through to the main stream media these days. we just did a big story on cnn with hidden camera video. cnn didn't mention a word about and it the notion of getting on

the front page of "the new york times" or getting anderson cooper to talk about you or the number one video on youtube or twitter, these are breaking through. >> for more offer the schedule go to booktv.org. >> next, we'll larry from journalist louis uchitelle on manufacturing in america today. he wrote a book titled o'making it" why manufacturing still matters" this is an hour. >> good evening, everybody.