. >> it is very hard to break through the mainstream media. they didn't mention one word about it to get in anderson cooper to you talk about you these are called breaking through. [inaudible conversations].

>> when they explore joining us on this evening. and the executive editor we are very happy to be here tonight with though wonderful new book making it. and striking up a great collaboration suffer just like to congratulate them on and the exceptional response and this is to acre that launch. >> i am not sure this book would have happened withouto.

you. >> as many of you know has a distinguished pedigree over 25 years reporting on labour ahead economics and a war correspondent to the associated press his last book was ted early as impression to look with long-term aftereffects and was ahead of the curve. whether the new jim-crow but we started to work a lot of this six years ago it was

the essential topic teder fascinating the alou could foresee that convergence with politics? that was unexpected but does open the opportunity in thanks for joining us tonight.you may kn >> you may know just as a frequent contributor and a senior fellow and an author himself the most recent ofnt which is the title that i whke and the editor. the subtitle i have not

committed to very but also doing with what the economic thinking has done with the borders none of those were published so we are very gratified to have these gentleman to talk about those subjects enter pin that. so we'll have him speak for about half an hour and have the conversation and then open for questions and then we can speak individually. thinks for coming. >> thanks for providing this i'm here with my longtime

friend. he is a couple years older he has written about manufacturing and his own experiences growing up his dad was involved in manufacturing and thought of this as a manufacturing country but as a backdrop because of the past he hopes to be talking about that has not been the acceptable for a long time because many economists have insisted that they have noted that technological development is

more al put but fewer jobs we will discuss all of that i had some thoughts on my own especially at the outset. but you really have spent discussing this like 15 or 20 years. so the reason this is acceptable donald trump won a stunning victory because men can a longer work in many factories are disgruntled those expectations have been dashed and they voted for

trump out of bitterness. that was the underlying factor for the silentor majority. did you why did you write this book? [laughter] >> you gave me an opening to y be modest. the guy covered economics for the times for many years whenever i can get a story with manufacturing i did that and found it to be fascinating and overtime began to realize a

eventually a subsidy appeared. i finally came to the conclusion that it is a subsidized market activity so until the soviet union collapsed the ring gauge of the aisle a logical struggle that is not made in america i don't think. [laughter] but i came to the conclusionlizt and slowly realized there was always say public subsidy if you talk about a

value-added and manufacturing if you take day sheets of steel if you stamp that that is value added manufacturing in this country generates $2 trillion per year and happens that it grows more quickly so that manufacturing share of the economy has dropped to about 12% for the nearly 30 percent that was in the early '50s. then we went to the long periods of the struggle with the soviet union as they were the ones subsidizing with a government run the

economy. we could not explored the real nature of manufacturing . after that ended i would go to a place in new york and they say we use a lot of electricity we cannot afford that electricity so every year going to the new york state power authority asking if we can buy electricity and costar at a discount.sidy" that is not a good word. with public spending with that trillion value added is a huge share of it and very

often in production for by a bear cub clauses if you are - arrested or stopped if they give you a ticket and maybe a factory in america. so we're able now to say what is the nature of manufacturing? and public subsidies are everywhere.that'st the defense departmentntpurcha purchases weapons. the donald trump is very

belligerent and that is good for the weapons industry.let me but that isn't good for the factory workers but the factory employment in manufacturing was 19 million in was the high point. to fall precipitously after that. and is now 12 million people.s are ho that is sent the followers we were hoping.

and that was in the reporting the was with the man that had a factory worker. and she turned to me to say my children will not live as well as we live. they cannot earn enough in the service sector.manu manufacturing is potentially high wage but now i would get back to trump because somebody says i will make america great again really you mean you will increase production of weaponry in

this country and it will not be very many. that is the big part of the current situation and that is civil-rights. >> let's hold that for laterer but let's go back to thert mabsidy idea. you save virtually all manufacturing is subsidizedg thi in america but also a manufacturing his subsidizedd to the rest of the world.. >> absolutely. that subsidies are chaotic.

>> we do not have a national industrial policy to decide whether they should be supported for were the efforts should go worse state lois says put your factory in my town rather than in kansas city we will give you $100 million. that is a zero sum game before the nation as a whole because they cannot better off than kansas city. in this bidding war to get a factory to locate his a great effort to avoid those cities that have strong unions to negotiate those

labor contracts to raise wages. that is another aspect that is quite disturbing. with the cities like st. louis and new york manufacturing it to placeters near the african-american neighborhoods it is quite a bit. they have a general motors plant that we will move this operation in missouri but to

give jobs in any of the factories who loses a job and many people who took that offer and then there was a younger generation growing up so now we have a situation in to have those factories in st. louis to have that headquarters campus. part of the tension is there f just were not well paid unionized factory jobs for people in the st. louis area to go to. and what happens when the

other group in st. louis . and i could stay with him but it was there i came into contact with african-american and civil-rights leaders whod said they are leaving town and there is a work for a the people to be left behind but yet they are subsidized of days succeeding generations the high-school

educated people once could get. aide dennis to publishes the african-american weekly newspaper that his family leverage itself and had done well but why aren't there movements in the streets? we just don't with the migration of factories in you could apply that to new york as well.doesn't and doesn't care if thee factories are downtown but

more worried about the white people. or those african-americans of the other hand are losing the opportunity to have manufacturing in well paying jobs in the city. >> one of the i discoveredy that they did not necessarily offshore to save labor costs but the subsidies. >> tie-in is a big subsidize there which is fine and general motors for example, makes 2 million cars per year in china that sold ints

china. what should be going on with obama and trump should be negotiating 1 billion ofth those are made in the united states it exported but off course, that is very hard negotiation that thes direction we should be going. right now if you think about value-added is only 12 percent of the economy. in the 1950's it was 28 percent and a steady decline year after year as other industries and the financial sector grew and manufacturing dropped as a

share.ate it is private goods producing and the gray line was once labeled low manufacturing was passed that in those lines should be reversed. initiative be done by k the city to pay over st. louis that distributes those subsidies invade coherent way.

>> we do have to get your proposals but going back to civil rights, especially urban blacks. but trump selection made clear that the whites also lost. they lost the opportunity of manufacturing with good pay that one of the errors the clinton campaign was not to recognize the white

component of the decline. and address the needs of the white people. budget talks little bit as i travelled in the midwest i don't know why found excuses to go to the of midwest but in with in the of maya love the of factory in the factory workers would come into the union headquarters in there was of a lot of conversation in the union's

played a role as the union'sth we can to the of membership so it has plummeted we need a resurgence of the union membership. the of those subsidies for manufacturing so what of are the proposals? solar talk about goals to increase the

manufacturing share getting back to the civil rights issue but i regret the left-wing seems to ignore the right. but there is something of a prejudice more a skepticism that is an inefficient way to deal with the economy. with a civil rights issue, you are talking a negative externality to the decline of manufacturing which in turn leads to an

isolation. but a concentration of poverty to social isolationt evi so why not invest even if inefficient?. >> but the investment has been so localized it doesn't spend $100 million to pick one town over another. they should come from the federal government. to have some job goals there

should be unionization of those factory workers and a public discussion of what will happen if we don't bring back manufacturing. and to get to that point to buy stuff from china and to invest them in the treasury and securities to take those dollars and as a point i mean asia but the chinese

will say no there will be a shift from the dollar of the international currency to something else.betwee happening between world war war i and world war ii when the shift takes place what will lead to? we either have to go back zero or we will decline as an infant -- as a nation. >> let's get to your proposals. >> we discovering a

government in washington with the of to add your proposals. >> to have a long e-mail to a certain proportion if there is the election campaign the two candidates are running one should sayan manufacturing with the value added is only 12 percent of my proposal is to raise 8990 negative 20%.t is in it is higher in asia. file were a candidate i would propose doing that to say no more competing more against another they all

have to be channeled through a federal agency which decides who gets what with the goal of manufacturing the back up that 19 or 20%. i will leave out the jobs part. manufacturing employment got that 19 million and then drop at 10 million. and then comes back up that 12 million. and then talk about raising employment in manufacturing without ever mentioning how high that had been.

so i've afraid trump mentioned it and i did not vote for him but the best way to raise employment is through public works. we should build a high-speed railroad that is employment intensive. he certainly is not rushing to do that. to have a much more progressive income-tax and is very vague what he will do but yet he won on that score and held up for the province particularly to aul the non hispanics to give them work.

you don't hear them talk much about those projects.source >> if we subsidize a lot more is there retaliation like a trade war?. >> if we decide if we force gm to make 1 million of those cars here then ship them to china, that is the beginning of a trade war. there has to be a recognition and negotiation but to have the capacity to have factories around the world than the public has to

purchase these and perhaps we have subsidized purchasing. >> has the decline of manufacturing left?. >> i am of skeptical about the skills business. almost any skill can be taught to someone with a high-school education there was a time that is the way it was. my father got out of high-school, and became a broker role in one fabric to another. and then to talk about this bill this shortage i had yet

to have a lack of skilled workers people are trained on the job in junior college courses. >> we are bad that the apprenticeships programs. but they use their own federal policies to discuss wages. don't you think those apprenticeships is what helped us?. >> and over the years there are more programs and from the fort wayne indiana with

those vocational high schools that were apprenticeship programs closed across the countryombineh the with the combined high schools of vocational training so when you finish high school you want to go to college you can do so but these particular vocational high schools are central and supported by six to seven school districts and the students are busted and. those also go to college but the majority do not.

with cars and equipment when i went to high school we had shop class said home economics, i would have to print the declaration of independence but you get the idea of working with your hands. >> manufacturing jobs have come back to some degree very slightly. politicians talk about and then 500,000 turvey be are c

1 million comeback from ary very low level and has the value-added to generate income of. is there any chance from that vigorous subsidization or is it futile?. >> if trump is too greasy or dangerous it is a very bad start with the next president should say we dold need more factory jobs. african american and they're not paid as well as caucasians.

but the rate of increase is greater and we have to have a policy that slowly trains people. to use the national industrial policy to raise factory production eight teenineteen% we should go back to shipbuilding weto don't make any container ships. and through those apprenticeship programs and

my goal will be through manufacturing with 15 percent of gdp and that is where it is with most countries to object to the wasting of public money to get a factory to locate in the bidding process to go into national output bernie sanders might of i voted reluctantly for hillary clinton i think she more or less had this in mind but did not get very far. of life to see it trump

person to say here is how i'll use public money in nudges with weapons he almost is under pressure to make use of the weapons. if. >> does that make sense, of what time is it? some there are a subsidy wars and wed should recognize those so that is a provocative proposal. >> the company that we

bailed out should be making 1 million of those 2 million cars and here and shipped to china. barack obama and trump successor pass to sit down and negotiate that deal may we is 500,000 they will be able so we would slow the buildup manufacturing and 7218% use a those numbers. >> and one other point about this some civil think is

actually operated in favor of america but i've far from an economist we need to allow subsidies to promote certain times of manufacturing investments. selfish upon bread would. >> so the wto says we don't recognize the subsidies to dl lit up -- allied with free trade slip would be

helpful of the world trade organization and said manufacturing runs on subsidies and public money by defense spending and let's recognize that to start dividing up and who gets what? you might get a war out of that. i don't know how we solve the problem but. >> thanks for writing this love lead discourse it is one of the things people don't do very often for the factory workers and managers that gives a perspective that we rarely get in the

hope this will influence the nation in the right direction. [applause] >> what about manufacturing in the u.s.?. >> we continue to make weapons and we are good at that so so far that has nottu been a problem but it is of the since trump looks around looking all these factories making weapons have to do something with them. and he does so it could be

supply chain problems. so that becomes a serious national security risk. we think we make of for but it is 20% imported parts and that did not exist in world war two's that makes a complicated to fight a war we can make the weapons without importing the parts. >> [inaudible] what do the chinese are european subsidies look

like? and then to see those automobiles but with the national association of manufacturers to change national politics to be pro business? those are two separate questions. >> in a the convention that they're talking with great people now the convention is itking place in washington.

then they make two or three or four trips. >> repeat your question. said to have day supportive supportive?. >> they solve those problems by creating will the nationals i started to cover the meetings with most of the production here. and then became the dominant force in the started to put more factories overseas rather than producing here. so two-thirds of that

factory output comes from those from multinationals a yet they are operating overseas and along the ofam mexican border they're not there for the cheaper labor but one of their reasons is there are free trade agreements the we can only ship them to a 20 but they also ship the cars north so trump is not wrong to want to get rid it of nafta. hillary clinton did then she

didn't. with those multinationals you have to make more stuff. and when obama was in office now he is on the trump manufacturing council. in the said when i visited in michigan we make in china what we sell in china we just will not export then he

should make of merca more of what he sells. plus the research center. >> they are stuck in the middle. it has shifted with them. ma it never raises the issue is used to but it doesn't anymore.

they did not pull the tens of millions who were worse off with 10 or 20 years ago. because those are the people that voted for trump. you want to increase the percentage of the amount in the united states what will that accomplish? manufacturing is more and more productive and then it comes for of an article.

>> ed with the 15th hour workweek. ari in with those aristocratic preferences not realizing from life that is their point of view reflect the middle of the depression 1931? with how much unemployment of manufacturing with then it

will not resolve a and fair trade specialization in the one area of though world so isn't that part of the international picture?. >> manufacturing will just not solve the jobs problem jobs there is less and less needest in manufacturing. not to overemphasize but the job solution has to be another part of the new deal cou of public works. en to justify more restructuring very -- they should drop that. chi

and that is chipping away steadily at the value of the dollar. >> with the late '70s that government policy that is around 32% in in other areas of the economy raise prices all over the country.

en then decisively when ronald reagan went on strike he fired them in then that gave tolerance. >> manufacturing as a bigger multiplier. and creates more demand has been documented. number one or number two. two there is a chicken and egg question the start to lose their power because of the

competition from japan so that was part of it but there is still a case to be made manufacturing is too much ignored by big government training has been ignored. >> also of too much ignored by the unions. >>. >> so how do we decide? 's

this is not such a big gap. if we have a national industrial policy. and then the question of the service sector. the national industrial policy first has to be set first with the first order of business that should be the pacesetter. that is the simple answer.

but in the places that you want one added for private sector is manufacturing. in the part of the country we don't spend a lot of time. that ids of innovation. but that productivity has led the nation. and manufacturers tend to invest more in new product. >> there used to be a rule if you put a factory here the research center then try that out with their research center does that still exist? but that is a dying

idea. >> [inaudible] [applause] [inaudible conversations]

. >> professor from the university of missouri director of astronomy co-chair of the eclipse task force. this task force has to working for more than a year to prepare the americans for the eclipse. what you doing?. >> we convened three years ago to make sure people realize what would happen. if you say there will be a mass migration of people for all those that can see that total eclipse they will let you funny.