help. i am here to see that and cheer him on. >> here is a look at two books vermont senator patrick leahy is reading this summer. "all the light we cannot see" selling the story of two children struggling to survive in france during world war ii. and minnesota senator al franken "giant of the senate" recalling his path from -- to becoming a politician. booktv on c-span2. television for serious readers. >> next on booktv, roxane gay discusses her body and its impact on her life in her memoir, "hunger." this program contains language some may find

ms. -- offensive. [applause] [cheers and applause] >> good evening. new york times best selling author of "bad feminist," "difficult women," she is a contributing opinion writer to "the new york times" and has also written for time, mcsweenys, the nation, salon and more. her fiction has been selected for the best american short stories of 201 and the best american mystery stories of 2014 among other anthologies. in her new book, "hunger," she delivers a seringly honest memoir of food, weight,

self-image and learning how to feed your hunger while taking care of yourself. joining roxane on stage is co-host of the call your girlfriend podcast, emina -- [inaudible] without further ado, please join me in welcoming roxane gay. [applause] >> we're taking a selfie. [laughter] my sister's going to be so jell-oous. [laughter] -- jealous. >> hello. >> thanks so much for joining us today. i'm so excited to talk to you. this book is amazing.

[laughter] >> you know, i mean, you're like kanye to me, only shoot three-pointers. sorry. >> but i was so struck by so many things when i read the i had to to stop many times because it was very emotional, it was really raw. and i was so -- i was just reminded of how just generous you are as a person, who somebody who is not afraid to say the thing we are all thinking or should be thinking and helps us be a little more brave. and, yeah, can you kind of talk to us about, you know, what was hard about writing for you? >> everything. [laughter] >> oh, you want me to elaborate? >> sure. [laughter]

>> you know, it was a difficult book to write. i sold this book in, just before "bad feminist" came out, actually, and i was thinking about what i wanted my next nonfiction project to be, and i thought the book i want to write least is a book about fatness. and then i realized it's book i should probably write the most. and my dad always tells me do something no unelse is doing if you want to achieve success. and a lot of people write about fatness from perspective of body and have lost a lot of weight. and so you see a woman on the cover of her book standing in half of her formerly fat pants, and she's like, i did it. and i just thought, i can't write that book yet. and i want to write that book. so why don't i e tell the story of my body today without apology. i'm just explanation of this is my fat body, and this is what it is like to be in this world in this body. >> yeah. i mean, i think one of the things that i really enjoyed, too, that you did in the book is, you know, for as many new perspectives that we hear about,

like, bodies and about abuse and about rape culture, i still think there is a singular narrative of how you are supposed to react to when, like, hard things happen to you. and i think that you were really able to shift that conversation and change the conversation from, you know, like in saying, yes, there's such a thing of health at every size, but here's where i am. >> there's such a thing as whatever the fat beauty, like are, empowerment complex is online, but here's where i am at. and also the conversation around, like, you know, choosing to call yourself a victim or a survivor. and i think, you know, it was so important that you did that. what kind, like, what reactions are you hearing to that? >> well, nobody's read the book yet. well, a few people have read book, yes. [laughter] but it comes out tomorrow. and so i haven't gotten many reactions. a lot of people have made assumptions based on what they think the book is going to be about, and they think it's a book about self-loathing and so

on. and that's not what this book is about. it's a book about, like, what happens when you are beyond lane bryant. because often times when people talk about body positivity and fat positivity, they can still go to the mall and buy an outfit. but what happens when you're bigger than that? and what happens when you find yourself no longer able to shop in a store for clothing? and, you know, when the world simply does not accommodate you. it's a story we don't hear unless you are watching tlc and one of their horrific shows like my 600-pound life where then the fat body becomes a spectacle and idea of being shamed. and we have this doctor, who i'm sure is well-intended, but puts people on a 1200-calorie a day diet even though at the beginning of the show they say the weight loss surgery has a 5% success rate. and i think that lets us know how pervasive fat phobia is, oh, i have a 95% chance of failing at this, but i'm going to mutilate my body anyway. and i just wanted to talk about all that. and i wanted to say i believe in

fat positivity and health at every size, but i'm also not thrill to be this particular size. -- trillioned to be this particular size. i met the health at every size founder last week, and she weighs about 90 pounds. [laughter] and so so i was, like, really? i mean, she's wonderful. [laughter] she is wonderful. but she's a medical doctor. and so i love that she's taking up this cause because people will listen to her far more than they'll ever listen to anyone else because of her thinness. and she even said that to me. but i just thought, wow. wow. okay. she's super thin. she will never know what it's like to live in this body. but, sure, happy and healthy at every size. [laughter] and so, yeah. i'm all for it, but i'm also just me and trying to be as realistic as i can. >> another thing i, you know, i really liked about the book how it confronted me with my own

kind of, my own history with weight and where i, you know, where i think i am. i think i've been big probably since i was in the sixth grade. never really thought about it too much. like also went through sexual trauma, but i had never connect those dots in the way that you lay bare, like, so much. but i, you know, i was so -- i just realized how much of this conversation about weight, too, just centers around fat people being miserable all the time which is, like, not necessarily true for some of us. some of us have athletic sex. some of us are happy -- >> i can't talk about that. >> it's true, your family's here. [laughter] i'm so sorry. [laughter] >> i'm show less text

00:08:03 >> we'll get to the percent for you later. [laughter] -- the portion for you later. but where you're able to talk about all oaz these things and realize the conversation around being fat doesn't have to center around thinness at all times. >> yes. i think it's so important for people to realize that you can be fat and live a full life. we have relationships. we have families. we have jobs. sometimes we're really good at those jobs. and people love to tell us doesn't matter what you achieve as long as you're fat, your achievements don't count for anything. and i definitely wanted to write against that narrative. i hear it constantly, certainly, because i live in the world. but i also know that i live a full life. and thinness is not the be all to end all, and it is not the ruling factor, and neither is misery. but people want us to be miserable. they want us to punish ourselves because they feel like fat is a problem that needs to be solved and that we should be constantly apologizing for our bodies. it's not about them. it's very odd. >> i mean, when i was reading your book in the subway, a man

came up to me to give me diet advice which i thought was hilarious. >> oh, yeah. [laughter] i get so much nutritional advice. i was in chicago recently doing an event, and a man came up to me and gave me his name and number, but not in a good way -- [laughter] and he was, like, i'm a nutritionist. like, what the fuck? really? [laughter] and last night the washington post did this feature on me over the weekend, and don't read the comments. [laughter] just don't. and a guy e-mailed me last night and said i don't know if you know this, but exercise is really require to lose weight. [laughter] and i just thought, you know finish. >> you're like, i'm a tenured professor. >> i'm 42, i have a ph.d. , but you're right. [laughter] [applause] you're right. i have a personal trainer, but i don't know anything. thank you, thank you. [laughter] just walk two or three times a week.

and i could tell that this man was being really kind and, like, earnest. so i haven't written him back -- [laughter] because my first response was not kind. [laughter] nor was -- but it was earnest. [laughter] like are, earnestly go fuck yourself. sorry, parker. [laughter] it's very, very frustrating. >> i mean, but is it kind though? i think, you know, one of the things you're able to talk about so well too is how when your body is not the norm, whatever society has decided the norm is, people think it's okay to comment about it. >> they do. they absolutely do. >> they think it's okay to shove you, to talk to you -- >> oh, they do. absolutely. they think that they can treat you like a garbage can. that's all you are. i mean, i can't tell you the number of times i get shoved in public. people don't even apologize as if fatness makes you immune from pain, like a force field. no. i thought so, but it doesn't work that way. [laughter] but body does become part of the public conversation, and it becomes public property. and that's extremely frustrating because people read, like, one

magazine article in "people" and think they are suddenly an expert, and everybody is a doctor. everybody is a doctor. not a day goes by when people don't give me statistics that i know already. because i live in the world. and i've read a book. it's -- yeah. it's maddening. >> i want to shake all of those people for you. >> me too. [laughter] and, uni, it's not kind -- you know, it's not kindness. but i think they perceive it as kindness. i think they think they're doing you a favor and you with information that you've somehow never seen an oprah commercial or opened a book or seen a television show where diet culture is consistently being thrown at us. like, they think that somehow we've blocked it all out which, like, teach me. i'd love to learn that. >> so crazy. you know, another one of the things i think you do so well is just, you know, open up this

conversation around shame that people have whether it's around, whether it's around fault or it's around, like, how you feel about your body. but that's what i felt reading it. slowly, the shame is just lifting little by little, and it's by having these kinds of conversations. like, what was, you know, what were you kind of trying to get to really in talking about this? >> you know, i didn't have an end goal when i started writing the book, i just knew i wanted to write about fatness, and i wanted to sort of -- fatness is this thing where people don't really want to talk about it. and they know you're fat, but they whisper around it, or they have the audacity to say, oh, girl, you're not fat. [laughter]. .is able to book i took a look at myself in the choices i made over the years and how once i

was as fixed as i'll ever be i was comfortable in a certain it was all i knew and so, it was all i did. that was really useful. also, learning i don't have to apologize for my body which is a work in progress. writing the book certainly got me please recognize that and be able to articulate that. >> i love that. one thing that is fairly apparent about this conversation is yes, you're writing about fatness but what it really does is open up a conversation about accessibility and how we treat people with different bodies. i know you are someone who has really conscience of when you gone for two or of making sure there's accessible seating and that you can accommodate different bodies and that is unfortunately missing in people's thoughts.

>> my event in ann arbor was in an auditorium's would be tiny seeds rigid arms and i asked the venue that they need to have seats available with no arms for people who cannot sit in the seats. no one thanks about that show because people generally assume that we fit in the world the way you do and the norm is treated as thin. anybody beyond that shouldn't leave the house. so, i do think accessibility is important and for this tour i ask that every venue have accessible seating for everyone and for different kinds of bodies. we will see how it goes. >> it's kind of crazy that we all assume that the norm is this thin body because we see the statistics. the fashion industry doesn't cater to the real bodies of women, we know how much our bodies change but there is such a resistance to accepting the reality of whatever the average

american woman's body is and then extrapolating that two larger things. what you think is really going to take to change the conversation? >> i don't know. it'll take financial imperative. enough people will have to have the economic partner to demand and demand that we make seats that are over 17 inches which is the average width of the chair. i don't know if that will happen because all too often designers, whether furniture or clothing, they are like no, i want to design precise to otherwise i can't feel artistic and creative it shows you how bad designers are. [laughter] if you can't imagine your way out of a size two, what are you doing this work i don't know what it will take. it's one of the final years of termination. i don't know what it will take. >> if you don't know, how will

we -- you are like my guru. >> on this one thing, i don't know. back when i was reading i found myself being protective of you where i was like oh my gosh, i know what she's trying to say, this is amazing but so many people are not going to get it. this is going to fly over their heads. seen some of the cover of your peace or the way that people have engaged you, like you tweeted about someone asking you to describe your body -- very offensive where you've engaged material and how are you not. >> it's really interesting when people read the book and still learned nothing from it. i did a radio interview this morning with a woman i've actually interviewed with at least price for and she said and used npr voice as if she was trying to really connect with me

on my level. she was like, a white lady and said so, describe your body to me. [laughter] i was like, i'm tall because i knew what she was trying to get me to do this was expecting me to enter this fugue of self loathing and say my body is this huge hulking mass but that's not how i think of myself because i do need to get to the day. in the interview she came back and said so, describe your body to me. i lost my [bleep]. i said seriously? yes, i was like no. i hope they air it. i hope the air every single word. i had a witness, my publicist was there and it's exactly as bad as you think it is. people don't know how to talk about it. every single review, i write with my highest weight was and i wrote

it just to get people context his people are actually really bad about guessing numbers of what weight looks like. people think that every woman weighs 140 pounds or 110 pounds and she's like no, i'm rocking to ten. every single review has mentioned it. every single one. i'm just like [bleep] me. >> is the obsession with the thinness and people still read weight loss memoirs -- is almost dangerous to write about your weight or what it is you're trying to do because people instead of getting out it will use a manual for here's how i'm going to -- >> this is how i don't become her. you'd be so lucky. it's very frustrating and people want answers so they wanted to be a cautionary tale. what is the number that i need to start panicking and do over. it's really interesting.

the coverage has been well intended but interesting. >> you should start panicking when you're not an acclaimed writer, probably. stay in your own. [inaudible] [laughter] that's really interesting. i love that you say in the intro to the buckley talk about how it's specifically a memoir about your body. where you are at right now and the form itself challenges -- on some level is a traditional memoir we learn about your childhood and family college years but the way it's written the focus is on the somatic focus on the body is interesting interesting. >> i never wanted to write a memoir and i told myself i write a memoir when my parents died but then i realized there's nothing in my life that they

can't know. they will read the book. [laughter] i just thought that if i have a focus it'll be easier. i was very deliberate about making sure it's a focus on my body because that's what the book is about. as i got deeper into the book, whenever i felt lost, i thought how does whatever i'm talking about in this moment relate to your body. that had me stand course. >> another thing -- if you don't follow maxon on social media, you need to. that's where you get a lot of good stuff for free. in my friend group we joke about how good you are at the internet, dastardly good. parts of reading this book for there's this whole side of how i didn't know how you spend time online talking to strangers in internet chat rooms and being a lurker and contributor. obviously, that came from a

place of pain but to see the full realization of that and it goes back to how generous you are sharing your ideas in life and letting people in on the level they can relate to the neck which i'm always accused of not doing in my actual life. it's funny. i've been online probably since 1996, back in the day i went to college my parents gave me a macintosh lt two and back then we would use the 2400 modem to get online and tie up the phone line and i go home i would take this big computer and a box and fly with it. laptop did not exist. i would tie up the phone for 16 hours at a time and i would talk because i was so shy and so afraid of the world that i had a very vivid imagination and a

very large desire to be out in the world and being on the internet allow that. i would go on message boards, back in the day, and talk to strange people. back then, believe it or not, the internet was fairly safe. it wasn't what it is today. you talk to a four -year-old guy and not get murdered. as an 18 -year-old girl, which is not necessarily the case anymore. also, i think i was lucky but i loved -- i'm a writer. it worked fast with writing and not having to do face-to-face interactions. it was just great to have this medium. now, i'm like you're seeing something i've been doing since 96 and yeah, i should hope i'm good at twitter at this point. >> our culture is so it's like a 30 under 30 or five types under five or.

[laughter] >> i shed a tear when i turn 40 because i didn't ever make the new yorker's 40 under 40 list or whatever the 20 under 40. i was heartbroken. i would like can you started 242 under 42? >> i think your story there so much more beautiful than that. it's part of your success. been doing it forever and i know what i'm doing and i'm seasoned and a pro but i think it's also, to me it was heartening to be like, you can pull it from the for a long time and when success comes in your opportunity comes you're ready because there's no imposter syndrome. >> know, well, there is. there's tons of it. i know that meritocracy doesn't exist but i always told myself that cream rises to the top. that's how i got through the many many years of obscurity and

not being very good. i just got better and better and, you know, i was fortunate to raise with the bandages that put me in the position to succeed. it's not an accident, success is