course head of the council on foreign relations. former bush administration comes state department official. and lucille is reading two books that we cover today here at the national book festival.ad "hillbilly elegy" and justllbill finished up david mccullough, the american spirit. both authors are usada and by the way we will repair this entire day beginning at midnight which is 9 p.m. at on the west coast. it's all repairing plus sinces it's a three to hold a we can bookpeople be on three days. we will repair entire festival 8:30 a.m. on monday labor day. that's what's coming up. we've got one more author speaking tonight so we'll go back up into the history and biography room here at the convention center and this is going to be john aloysius farrell talking about richard nixon, the life. booktv, live coverage.

[inaudible conversations] good evening. welcome to the main event, the last program of the evening here in the ballroom. my name is ronald elving. i am an editor, correspondent podcast at npr and also a full-time, thank you, and also a full-time faculty member at american university school of public affairs. it is my very great pleasure to. be here this evening with john

aloysius farrell, jack farrellja to his friends, and he has written his third book. his first book was called clarence darrow, attorney for the damned. i think you should buy that book just for the title. second book was called tip o'neill and the democratic century. and then he turned to richard "d nixon: the life." >> because such a popular character. >> because of that trajectory i have to ask, what major turn to dick nixon? >> i was drawn to his story. the original subtitle for the book was richard nixon, an american tragedy. and that was struck as it did the research people like henry kissinger and elliott richardson would write in their diaries or talk on the phone with each other.heir dia and as watergate was collapsings around him he would say this is

really like classic greek tragedy. this is a shakespearean scene of someone who is so many gifts, and yet this and making tragic flaw which ended up bringing him down -- amazing tragic -- and quite a shakespearean mattered. he was iago to his own othello. as always whispering in his own it. you are not good enough. they hate you. they are against me. and in the end it destroyed him and he had that one final momeny of recognition, some you may remember on the last day tha ths in the white house when he addressed his staff and family in the east room, and he said remember, others may hate you but if you hate them, then you destroy yourself. so there's this wonderful moment of self recognition when he sees that the tragic flaw has brought him down and just the way that he feared the most, and yet in the end that's what got him.

>> i'm struck by a comparison to iago to his own othello. audibly that line is in the book. i think you said it on another occasion but i have looked for in the book and i don't believe found it. is that something you have a lot of sense but in the book and what does it mean to you? >> no, actually when you write a proposal for a book, you sort of try to come up with analogies to it the story, what about the proposal for double date that was in the proposal. i didn't use in the book. i probably shouldn't because as a way back to prepared to go out on a book tour i came across it might and i said that is a pretty good line. i have used it, if you remember the play, othello is this great general and iago his lieutenant, very jealous of him and startsle whispering in his ear, iago puts this paranoid in a fellow and in the end of fellow ends up

killing his beautiful wife desdemona because iago is so good at doing that. so nixon always had this susceptibility of telling himself over and over again i'm not good enough. one of the most heart rendering examples of this is when he comes back from china and he's accomplished everything that he wanted to do in his life. he is become president against all these odds, come from the backwoods of california to become president of the united states. he wants to be a great man and he sees this opportunity in the cold war to drive a wedgee between red china and the soviet union, and to bring china into the family of nations. long before he was present he wrote about this in an article in foreign affairs magazine, talking about how this new century was going to be a center of an information age. this is richard nixon in 1965.

an information age dominated by computers and that the old communist monolithic societies would not be able to compete with the nimbleness of science that's going to be needed in the 21st century. so he sees this happen as he's president. he goes to china. he makes this amazing breakthrough, and he comes back and is talking to henry kissinger on one of the infamous white house tapes, and iago starts to whisper and he says you know, henry, the american people are a bunch of sheep. they watched me on television with all that handshaking and stuff in china, and you and i know it really doesn't mean a thing. y this is richard nixon not really being cynical about the american people but bad mouthing subkeys yet such a sense of inferiority. that's where, i should've used it in the book. it is a good line. >> you mentioned that for affairs piece of 1965 which he seemed to have an enormous amount of sophistication about asia are in the book you point

out he had toured asia's vice president, part of his dutiest for dwight eisenhower and that he learned a great deal and present a lot of people. he seemed to have really takenry it on as a study too much of thh rest of his life. one of the things about the book they got attention as soon as it came out whe what you broke a bf news that had to do with the asian land where the avenue we shouldn't try to fight but richard nixon found as fighting when he became president in vietnam, of course. the news you broke had to do with a person named -- famous, generation, generation before us but not swallow today was sent on a mission by the nixon white house in waiting before he was elected president when you're still a private citizen but the nominee of the republican party. what was that all about? >> it's almost 5 50 years, it wl be 50 years next year, and nixon was running in 1968, amazing year of turbulent.

the year bob kennedy and martin luther king were assassinated, and jed eugene mccarthy challenging lbj in new hampshire. you have rights at the democratic convention. and in the midst of all this richard nixon builds a pretty formidable lead by september 1968 over his democratic opponent hubert humphrey. because lyndon johnson the sitting president has announced he's not going to run for reelection because of vietnam. all of a sudden the democratic party starts, the democratic voter start coming home in the fall of 1968. the blue-collar union workers leave george wallace was run as a third-party candidate and they start going back to the democratic party. the antiwar folks startan forgiving humphrey because it does look bit of a tiptoe towards, a split with lbj on the olympics all of a sudden, at the beginning of september richard

nixon had this young guy who was a vote counter, and his name was alan greenspan. >> good counter. >> and alan greenspan since them in the minds of we're going to win 410 electoral votes. humphrey will be lucky if he wins a single state because wallace will take the rest. but it is close dramatically by the end of september. then lyndon johnson calls nixon in and says we are seeing some progress on vietnam. on the institute a bombing halt. now, richard nixon thought it lost the 1960 election because the kennedys stole it from them, and getting johnson in 1966 do an october surprise in other congressional election bytion by announcing that he was closer to peace in vietnam. so nixon's paranoia kicks in, and he sees these forces lined up against him ready to steal something from them once again.

and he uses this connection, a woman who was very well known in the palaces of asia because her husband had led the flyingng tigers into battle against the japanese in world war ii, and he sends her to the south vietnamese to tell them that if they can just hold on a little bit longer, nixon reelected and you'll get a better deal, and so rather than go to paris and join in the peace talks, which nixon thinks isa charade, the south vietnamese resist. they don't join in the peace talks. .. etty much unknown story because some point that fall went in johnson got wind of it and he sent the fbi as to top top -- the tapes, to tap the republican who envoy and the.

and the presidential powers in saigon so johnson is getting all this information and he gets on the phone and call the republican senators like edward dirksen and he said i'm leaving and this is darn near treason. will he confronts nixon and nixon denies it but it has actually happened and the great tragedy in this story is that there really was a piece deal and the soviets said if he would do a bombing hault became promised there will be productive talks. we will get the north vietnamese to the table so when nixon saw this dirty trick johnson actually believed it was a the peace talks don't happen in

nixon is the lack it in one of the closest elections in american history. 43% of the vote come with only 43% of the vote. elements of this story come out over the years. if you go back and watch the famous interviews coming david frost asks him specifically, did you send them to talk to the south vietnamese in nixon said no, i would never do something like that. in the last of the puzzle in london johnson in 1968 was whether richard nixon had been p directly involved. i as i am going through the vast amount of material released in the last 20 years since the nixon library in yorba linda, they were handwritten notes by a man named h.r. holman, bob holman and is writing down whatd nixon is telling him to nixon as

saying keep inertia now working on the south vietnamese. anyway we can monkeywrench johnson's initiative. >> monkeywrench meant? >> throw a monkey wrench into the gears and stop it. a rainy day like today, down at the beach and a potted jigsaw puzzle because there's nothing else to do and you put thes puzzle pieces together in aat stuff comes out and you go away, but your brother-in-law comes up behind you and starts putting a few pieces of the puzzle together and eventually gets assembled. that was my little piece of the puzzle and i was glad to contribute. >> a crucial piece it was. one thing that strikes me has been the extraordinary way you manage to remain dispassionate and yet haven't edge and seek involvement in what's going on. he did not live all of this

history, and >> many of us have lived much of it. for a generation, i've read the book feeling as though i was reliving my life. did you feel that way at all?wa did you feel personally involved in the larger events? >> i was in college duringllege watergate, so i wasn't in college at the time of the great vietnam protests and yet come in nixon was a bad day for people of my generation. so when i started to go into his life, i approached it as a biographer, which is telling me so already come you have to be object is coming out to be fair. you have to see it from his point of view. what i found as i looked into nixon's life was my sympathy for

him grew, even as i was finding things out about watergate andi vietnam, which is a horribly cynical act. i was looking out for you came from and what he had to do to get to where he was. he was born in the california outback as i said. his father was a blowhard come as somewhat abusive. he managed to be someone who could fail to grow lemon and orange county, which is one ofl the most powerful citrus fruits in the world and he took it out on his son. he had five sons and two of them died in nixon's childhood. his baby brother arthur died in like a week, shocking the family of meningitis and then his older brother, harold, the golden boy of the family contracted tuberculosis and died over six years that wasted the family finances.

so by this point, they had sold a lemon farm, move to crossroads outside of whittier and his father had a toted down the road, put on this corner and opened a grocery store and began to sell groceries out of this abandoned church beard his job was to drive him to los angeles to the market at 3:00 a.m. and get the produce get the producing polished and prepared and then go off to school. he did this while trying to maintain a lot of extracurricular activities, drama, football, debate and he was a very successful, very bright individual. all of the time knowing that the good kids inside whittier, the good kids on the garden side of this town looked down on him because of his family situation. we always have this resent it, but at the same time, this amazing driving was going in.

the ability to pick himself up in even in the last years of his life after watergate, and to mount a semi-successful comeback public relations by until he appears on the cover of "newsweek" magazine with the big headline, he's back. >> in nixon won in 1968. 43% or not he won the royal college because there is a three-way vote with hubert humphrey.d so then he is president and he discontinued the vietnam war, but we could change this in the way the draft works and we start more and more aggressively and people step back a little bit, college campuses get a little cooler. not so much after cambodia in 1970, but in general he de-escalated and moved us towards an american withdrawal,c which eventually would happen. he also did a lot of otherly things, especially in the first term which people who don't

remember those years. a few of the social security benefit, the tpx defined, osha, the safety occupational health administration, title ix for women athletes. he had a health care proposal he would write about in the book that was amazingly like what we now think of as obamacare. >> very close to what we see as obamacare.e.t we sho his administration pioneered the idea that rather than go to a single-payer system, and that we should just tell the insurance companies everybody's got to have insurance or we are goingra to keep the private insurance remark and very slight differences between that principle to have every mandate for every employer to providewah

insurance for his mandate with all of us have to buy insurance if her employer isn't doing it. ted kennedy told me before he died, and this is my biggest legislative error was not taking this deal for nixon, specially m nixon offered it twice in the 1973 when he was desperate foreo domestic support and offered it, but they said he so weak. we will get it now appeared in the president will come in andt get medicare for all and it turned out to be jimmy carter, conservative from georgia and carter promised a balanced budget so instead of getting national health care communityt huge fight break out pity challenges jimmy carter in the primaries in 1980 when ronald reagan went to a good in this

new conservative area. he knew he missed his in 1973 by not taking richard nixon's proposal. >> there are these other other things nixon managed to accomplish that would buy today's life in the post-reagan era would count as liberal programs, expansions to go on provision of new rate, provision of new programs and benefits. did he get any satisfaction for not part of his legacy? >> two things. one is he had been part of the world war ii generation and the world war ii generation had seen a great crisis, to great crises, depression and world war ii and how muscular government could fix problems. so what was not in the post-reagan area where billlit clinton says the air of big government is over reagan said

government is not the solution, government is the problem. there was nothing to be ashamed of or afraid of about government. if we needed national defense to build highways across thetate country connecting every state capital, we would just do it. that was the way dwight eisenhower thought because when he had to invade normandy and bring down adolf hitler, who do we need 5000 ships? with a 10,000 ships. there was really no feeling government was discreet evil force in our lives in those days. world war ii generations ofestii differently. nixon himself at certain things that he realized he needed to do for the public.

the environment is a primet oil example. read the biggest oil spill up t that time in santa barbara, california and just as the movement is kicking off in nixon has two choices. he can go along with it orr resist it. he has sort of a gut feeling california is a beautiful place and we should keep it that way and so you get this amazing environmental measure and it's in the book at one point the major environmental organizations were asked who was the best president teddy roosevelt came in first in richard milhouse nixon came in second. it's really a formidable record. other things happened, too. i once had the subtitle of the book should be and yet because as you read the book, you'll see in nixon was the one who brought

about the deliberate polarization of america on racial matters, the so-called southern strategy.y. and yet, in the nixon administration was more desegregation than the johnson administration, eisenhower and kennedy administrations. they very quietly prodded by the supreme court desegregated the schools to the point the polls of southern black voters in the 1970s gave nixon a 53-37 plurality. nixon didn't want the rest of the country to know about it because he had been sosothe so s successful that the southernting strategy. he's appointing people to the supreme court, guys that were borderline if not outright

racist and making these doing the right thing quietly and make it look like he was against busing and he was the feeling oi resentment. in the late 1960s and the people he called his great silent majority. and he could tap it by telling them what these minorities and they don't want to do the hard work that you did. and he played that very successfully and to the american political life and is still with us today. >> the morbid fascination nixon

had with the media to some degree comes to fruition with some of the things he did in the watergate larger conspiracy. you don't start writing aboutut watergate or using that term until it's in the page number 400 staff in some people would be disappointed not, but in another sense you explain watergate from the very beginning. talking about what it was than richard nixon that led him tosh his relationship with the media and ultimately watergate. talk about his relationships with the media in orange county and of course the los angeles the "los angeles times" of the 1940s and 50s. >> there's a great irony that donald trump and richard nixon are so anti-prius because bothth of them were creations of the press in nixon's case in southern california the "los angeles times" was like the great elephant in the room andns

really hard-line conservative newspaper. from the beginning took an interest in the career and promoted him, specially in the 1950s when he went to the congresswoman, the pink lady. >> he did not call it that. >> she was actually first aligned by her democrats in the primary and when you think about nixon going in as a writer same horrible demagoguery. by the last days of the election, he was literallyng accusing her income across the border and join the korean war. >> korean war started during the campaign where were we?ti

>> we were talking about his relationship with "the l.a. times." >> same thing with donald trumpo a group of long island reading the daily news, "the new york post" inseam donald trump grow by manipulating the tabloid atmosphere in new york city and of course during the campaign he was such a feature on thehe evening cable news that it is a great irony that both nixon and trump identify the press is the enemy of the people.eople. >> it carries on when you get to washington because when richard nixon came these verses congressman and senator, vice president coming he discovered a different attitude towards his career. >> yeah, definitely. he took down a series of liberan icons and it is unavoidable that

strong elements of the eastern press were liberal. nixon's case in the 1950s, many were liberal republican, but when he went after a royal warrant and he took down alger hiss and harry truman state department and defeated his first campaign. he was putting skins up on the wall they really marked him as a young conservative, progressive newcomer when he got to washington and the price indeed did some elements of the press did really good job on him. the great muckraker picked him as a target. herblock, cartoonist for the "washington post" in particular we do these cartoons to the point that nixon couldn't stand his daughters to read thegt

morning paper so they canceled this "washington post" and got it at the office. there was an element definitely they took the native paranoia within his spirit and accentuated it in washington. but it was clear from the beginning. the first campaign, the piece of the jigsaw of puzzle i found was that nixon like to make lists. he would fit in chair, put his feet up, even through his presidency and write out withll and thoughts on yellow legalhe pads. one of these i found, one of the first ones when he came back top the were running for congress, a complete unknown to one of the things to do is go to the rotart meeting, stop at a newspaper in by and add, set up a voter organization in such and such a neighborhood, put guys in the warhead camp. there was something there from

the very beginning that eventually grew and flourished and erupted in watergate. but all along, he definitely had opposition from the liberales press in a tin mine. >> and he always believed perhaps because of that early experience he had with individual publishers, editorialists, reporters, that every newspaper decided whether they were with you or against you and that was it. not just the editorial page. >> not just endorsement, but how they covered in the news. >> he had some horrible misfortunes in 1960 he runshe against the most charismatic candidate of the time, jack kennedy who loved the press, was a reporter who could relate with the press and there is absolutely no doubt in history in 1960 press corps, reporters were cited with kennedy.

they got more editorial endorsements and nixon, who in use televisions so masterfully in the famous checkers speech was betrayed by his performance in the debate.-- they were balancing fact reason the media, but definitely the campaign reporters he dealt with every day were very much pro-kennedy and there's really no doubt in history that this reinforced his idea that reporters were at least ideologically on the table. >> i want to give you all an opportunity to ask questions. i will ask you one more as people come forward and you can line up at the microphone. we have one on either side if you'd like to ask a question. let me just ask you, the name of donald trump has come up. it is difficult to not draw parallels between mr. ayres and other people have done so, the curator of richard nixon, donald trump committee media element is an obvious one. what else do you draw as a

biographer and reporter? what else you draws lessons from this.e come t when we come to our own era? >> i don't think there's a lot of comparison between the two men. dixon was definitely a foreign policy intellectual. he read, wrote vaux. because he was eisenhower's vice president can integrate dignity and respect for the office but didn't find him, but still was never treated vulgarly. in that regard, there's not a lot of comparison between the two men. they both campaign and perhaps trump took this for nixon, sort of this politics of resentment and in fact, at times, when he was campaigning, you can use the phrase is nixon used. it's going to be a law and order

administration and things like that. this seems that nixon was charged with and had been alleged about by president trump are very similar. the saturday night massacre in which nixon filed the special prosecutor compared very closely to nixon's firing the fbi terror who is leading the investigation is nixon and all this talk that perhaps trump will fire today's special prosecutor. so it's more of a superficial resemblance than an actual one. >> thank you. we'll take your questions, sir. >> thank you very much. this concerns the five watergate recorders. i had the pleasure this because continuing a program presented by john dean. he said without any hesitation what the weather that if the

five burglaries had not been apprehended breaking into the democratic headquarters at the watergate, they had another place to go and that other place to go was government headquarters because people in the white house had expressed an interest in knowing what was going on there. the point that he made was while the breaking of the dnc did not emanate from the white house per se, the cover-up did, but not the dnc break-in. the subsequent reagan never got a chance, didn't emanate from certain individuals in the white house in a radically if the five

did manage to make it to destination number two, then the watergate house of cards might've come down sooner. i very much appreciate your addressing that. >> there are no questions anymore about watergate. the tapes show nixon talking and singing bob, we need more wiretapping. you need to go out now and follow the democratic candidate. this vast flood of paper released in the last 30 or 40 years, you have evidence that it wasn't just mcgovern headquarters, that would mask he was the front runner, they open up an office next to mask he headquarters to serve as a listening post and by putting spies in the camp had gotten floorplans showing where the different tasks and telephones were.

this is almost every one of nixon's aides at the white house with the exception of henry kissinger had some sort of involvement. it was a massive campaign and as you say, and it's a signal that they thought that they could break into the democratic national committee at 11:00 p.m. and burglary and install and take photographs and then still be fresh enough and energetic enough but at 3:00 a.m. they would drive it to capitol hill, which they tried unsuccessfully to break into three times already and successfully do at the same night. they were doing it because they had blown all this money they had been given in their boss were saying where is the fruits of what we are any money on? pac they panicked and made it

incredibly things throughout th whole episode. but dean is right in that regard. >> he also said the motive or he can into the mcgovern headquarters was to see at the people i come across information about the psychiatrist and they wanted to know if they were going to get hit with op-ed material from not. >> i won't argue about that. part of the motive i think there are many motives. they basically wanted everything and everything. water gauges have been because so-and-so wanted this particular piece of paper. there were lots of things they were looking for.. >> thank you for your question. one from over here. >> some of the moments from this really strange presidency was in 1970 after the bombing of cambodia, he's taking up all to night calling 50 different people and he decides to go to the lincoln memorial and talk face-to-face with student

protesters. think it was the film as well. what did you take from that? what did you think richard nixon was looking for a non-encounter? >> the key to the encounter happened after he leaves the lincoln memorial and goes to the capital. he's up at the n. he tries to get into the senate. he can't fix the law, but he goes to the house of representatives. the whole purpose is to show washington it right. so he has then get up -- nixon sits in the chair below and give this speech. and as they're walking out in the vein, the cleaning lady and she comes over her and she is carrying her bible and she says hi, mr. president. i can't remember whether she asked him to sign the bible were just notices that says reach her

bible, you'll be a saint. my mother was a saint. nixon's mother throughout his life was sort of his conscience. and she died two years before he finally won the presidency. throughout that night, there's references in rambling about his mom and you can make the psychological argument that he was very concerned about the fact she would not approve of him expanding the war in the way that he did into cambodia, that the death of the four students at kent state would be something that she would really object to. he was expressing not only tension, that some small bit ofs guilt and shame. that's at least the way of always interpreted that. >> let's see if we can get to a

couple more over here. >> perhaps it would have been better if richard nixon would have never become president. given that he did, it was believed it would've been better for the republican party and for the country if you'd won in 1960 rather than 1968. is that a sentiment that you share or not? >> nixon was amazing that all three times he ran for president coming rant is the more moderate candidate. he was more moderate than jfk, more than george wallace and later hubert humphrey and certainly more than george mcgovern in 1972. he always represented the center. he had got to let it in 1960. i don't know how he would've handled cuba. it awful hard to play those hands out in retrospect. i know he would've supported the bay of pigs in beijing. he always claimed he would have

never let it go wanted it go on and how fast way. it would've been gail the way isis invaded normandy. so you still might have had the missiles of october, but they might've been the missiles of april 1961 instead had this provoked a superpower confrontation. but he definitely was a calm her man in 1960. n not a great candidate. lost that race for a reason, that came really close and actually believe he actually won it. >> thank you, sir. >> you had said that one of nixon's most admirable traits was his resilience. there were two great comebacks in his career. one after leaving the presidency in 1960 and after watergate ofh course. how did he go about engineering, ask about engineering complex in light of the american americand people accept them? >> the first comeback called the

greatest comeback in a would say that's true. this may be the greatest comeback in political history, from 196268. in 1968, you can't believe the chaos that americans had been in.at what they wanted was just some sort of semblance of normal fee. even the most passionate detractors of richard nixon, norman mailer, hunter thompson, were writing and walter let them were writing on his behalf in the 68 campaign seeing here is the season and steady hand that may be able to get us out of vietnam. so i think that his ability to present himself as the moderate as an experienced man was what worked in 1960. i think the second comeback is not terribly important.make m

i don't think it will make much difference in history, but he really did show some of himself in the frost nixon debates. if you've seen the movie or the play, there's the moment where david frost very dramatically takes his clip art and throws it on the floor and says you have to live more of yourself here otherwise he'll never forgive yourself.. this is your opportunity and he had the great moment where he says they gave them a sword and they stuck it in and twisted it and i would've done the samer aa thing. he was never a man to betimate underestimated. yet great, raw political skills and like i said tremendous reasoning. >> thank you for your question. we just have time for a few more. >> the day richard nixon died on april 22nd, when did you hear the news about it? >> i don't know.>> i can't remember.

you remember where you were? >> i was home that evening. >> i was surprised. >> i was wondering did you read any of his books? >> i read very closely hisnt memoir and i think it is one of the best presidential memoirs. it's very bacon bacon if anything he does too much into watergate. he wrote another book later in life called in the arena, which was sort of a secondary memoir where he got some digs in at his enemies, but the one i enjoyedwn the most committed to i enjoyed the most were six crises, which is what he wrote after the 19600 blocks.met and then when he was president, think it's just called leaders if i remember correctly.

ari and crises and leaders of the three i would recommend. >> thank you. thank you for your question.n. >> i'm not sure how much you said just gerald ford, but how much would you contrast your old ford and richard nixon at a time when everyone thought nixon would be leaving office versus mike pence has trims vp whileisi everyone wonders, with vs and equally assessed in sin? >> the vice president is a really tough job and i've covered the white house. i was a political reporter for a time before it became ae a biog biographer. you really have to feel for them. i don't think ford was too secret. in the last six months before nixon's resignation, he was sending signals. one of the very famous places when nixon was under fire, he

went out and played golf with tip o'neill at a golf tournament in massachusetts and tip o'neill is orchestrating impeachment in the house and allow the photographers to take a picture of ford with his arm around tip. in the last three or four weeks, he distanced himself, did not fall on the sword with nixon. i hesitate to make any comparisons to trump because we are not at that same moment of crisis and drama. >> i think we may build to take one more question. thank you for your question. >> yes, what do you think would've happened in the 68 election if george wallace was not a factor, didn't run? >> i think that in the end, the number of blue-collar vote that

while aesthetic was the last man the number of votes that he took from nixon in the border state. and that would've meant that ina the border state and he ended up probably nixon would've won no matter what. his message was not that different from wallace. >> and the states that voted fol wallace. >> uconn to goldwater in 1964. they been broken up already. >> said the one chance he might have had. >> the outcome of the big threat to humphrey with these blue-collar workers in ohio and illinois and michigan would go for wallace.

>> 82 of cut off the questions, but we do have to give up the room as they say. thank you, all. we want to thank the national book festival, library of congress and c-span. thank you to c-span for havingnn assigned tonight in thank you, jack farrell. [applause] [inaudible conversations]

>> them in the middle of reading testimony by scott turow, which is a mystery book -- not mystery, but a suspenseful too close to reality as it talks about the struggles of human rights violations against the roma population. i'm about one third through. can't wait to get home and finish it. >> one last question coming thank you for your time. what did it take to get you interested in the book with a busy schedule? what types of books captivate your attention? >> what would be historic diggers which i enjoy reading and learning.

the other suspense fiction that takes me far away from the realities of washington as possible. its enjoyment. i do it as often as i can. >> vocab was the major city, the 10th largest city in the state of washington. a beautiful city, river running through it, unleaded nice buildings. spokane was built off of the money from the district that had the gold rush in 1883 and that led to a