and now we are married and pregnant for property rights together. the family this is the government together stays together. >> host: is this the that timothy train to work together. "cornerstone of liberty: private property rights in 21st century america." this is but tv on c-span2. [inaudible conversations]

>> thank you, everyone. i'm pleased you were all here. i am lawrence mone, president of the manhattan institute. [applause] it's a pleasure for me to introduce jason riley today. jason is a senior fellow at the manhattan institute, regular columnist for "the wall street journal" and a commentator for fox news. in his new book "false black power?," jason offers a critique of civil rights leaders and prioritization of pure political power in which he argues that failed to produce significant results for african-americans. the book includes thoughtful responses to jason's arguments from two leading black intellectuals, john mclaurin glenn lowry.

this slender book that packs a powerful punch. as one blogger noted, what makes this book shine is the clarity of its logic and accessibility of its writing style. he made it look easy to dance, so it is rarely expressed his elegance so natural that it seems effortless. how did you get to write this? there you go. it's available for just $10. six dollars on kindle. jason may not get rich with this book, but hopefully she will open a few minds. please join me in welcoming the fearless in the peerless, jason riley. [applause] >> thank you for that very kind introduction, larry. i'm glad you told a few jokes. i was going to start with a joke about c-span where i appeared

recently covering this event and my wife advised me and this will be a joke free presentation on salé i'd. thank you. "false black power?." what am i talking about? in a nutshell, what i am saying is that barack obama needed black voters far more than black voters needed barack obama. that is not a personal attack on the former president. you can substitute in the name of any but politician in the statement would still hold true and that is what i'm trying to get out in this book. it started out as a column that grew into a longer essay and then eventually the short book

that was recently published. my intention was to make a fairly simple point, which was political or dvd is not the most employer of advancing a group economically peer to racial ethnic groups political success does not automatically lead to economic success. one does not flow naturally from the other. it's hardly an original, but one ignored by the civil rights who practice identity politics, favoring candidates of their own racial or ethnic background and so forth. i thought the end of the obama presidency was to reiterate the limits of this tragedy, which has been in place more than 50 years now.

since the 1950s, black leaders really prioritized integration of political institutions. they've got a great deal of success in doing this on their own terms. by the early 1980s, major u.s. cities with large black populations, cleveland, d. charlie, chicago, washington, philadelphia had elected black mayor is. between 1970 in 2010, the number of black elected officials grew from fewer than 1500 to more than 10,000 in this country including a black president. in addition we saw the school superintendents and legislators. they were created last congress. they have paid off economically

for the black poor which is what would happen. you look at how black underclass by marion barry's washington d.c. for sharpe james of newark. as my manhattan institute colleague fred siegel has said these unbeatable scenes in the way of helping the poor but the poor became more impoverished. mississippi posted more black officials than any other state in the country and continues to have one of the highest black poverty rates in the country

will they became better off, but average income black were left behind in the black poor actually lost ground. that has been the story nationwide. in an era of increasing black political clout, not to mention affirmative action and racial subsite, they have lost ground both in absolute terms and relative to the white underclass. in the 1970s and 80s and into the 90s, the poorest 20% of blacks saw their incomes decline more than double the rate of comparable weights. this history i think should've served to temper exit patience for the first black president. without taking away anything from barack obama's historic accomplishment, or the country's widespread sense of pride in the racial progress has symbolized, the reality is there is little reason to believe a black president was the answer to

racial inequalities are the problems of the black poor. on the racial affront to another and an article in "the new york times," which counted as a failure. the obama administration's inability to an income inequality. he was supposed to do that. we are off the charts on many fronts, but particularly on the racial friend and what his presidency would be able to do. sure enough, household incomes, poverty, homeownership during obama's time in office. it did improve towards the end of his second term, but blacks

did not see the average unemployment rate fall below double digits until the third month of obama's seventh year in office. so now we have more evidence that the proliferation of black politicians in recent decades which now includes the twice elected by president has done little to narrow racial gaps in employment and income and academic achievement in other areas. this is not to say of course the plaque should stay out of politics, not run for office or not engage politically. that is not what i'm saying. what i question is whether gaining political influence should continue to play such a central role in the strategy of black leaders when it comes to advancing blacks economically or whether their focus should be on other areas.

that's because most groups in america and elsewhere have done so with little or no political influence. groups that have enjoyed political success tended to rise more slowly. it is not that you can't take the political route. you can't, but chances are you're going to rise more slowly than you would taking other routes. germans,, italians, asians are among those who saw economic gains precede political gains in america. as a pattern you also see internationally. ethnic chinese in southeast asia, the english in argentina, jewish and britain among many other examples all prospered economically while mostly shunning politics. even if a group had the ability to wield political influence, they didn't always choose to do so.

german immigrants to the u.s. in colonial times were not lacking in numbers. in fact, there were so many of them that benjamin franklin was complaining about how many there were in pennsylvania as far back as 1750. why is it founded by the english become a colony of aliens who would shortly become so numerous to german ss and some of us we'll find them. nevertheless, germans, many of whom arrived to focus initially on paying off cost of their voyage had other priorities and were well known for avoiding politics. they brought with them to this country because the german immigrants everywhere from australia to brazil followed the same pattern, and basically shutting politics and the establishment itself economically first. truman center politics only

after they had risen economically. the counterexample in the example blacks have followed most closely with the irish used rise from poverty was especially slow given that you have these irish ran political organizations in places like boston and philadelphia and new york. who are dominating local governments. the irish had more political success in the u.s. than any other ethnic group historically after they arrived. get the irish were the slowest rising group of all european immigrants. the political power of a relatively small number of officials had little impact on the economic progress of most irish-americans. in fact, it wasn't until political machine started to decline in influence we saw a swelling of the irish middle class to the point where today

average irish incomes and educational attainment and so forth all exceed the national average. viewed against this history, many blacks were expecting obama's presidency to deliver more prosperity and political clout tends to deliver for a group in the u.s. or anywhere else. the black experience in america i should add is of course different from the irish experience which in turns different from the chinese or the jewish experience. we can't even generalize about the black experience here because they have patterns that differ from black immigrants from the west indies, for example, or from africa. but that doesn't mean because we can't make perfect apples to apples comparison that we have nothing to learn from other groups experience or that no

comparisons can be made. many different racial and ethnic groups have experience various degrees of hardship in countries all over the world and how those groups have dealt with circumstances is something to study closely and draw lessons from going forward even if the only lesson is to manage expectations. one of the clear lessons from history is also the human capital. the collective skills and knowledge that create economic value has proven to be far more important than political capital in getting ahead. a racial ethnic groups culture, attitudes, habits, values matter much more than electing people who look like us. and that reality helps that explains not only the obama era, but also the preceding decades.

prior to the 1960s in the first half of the 20th century when blacks were more focused on developing their human capital we saw the racial gaps narrowing incomes in the skilled professions in making gains in absolute terms also gaining on white paper progress is slow but steady. it was happening. yet in the wake of great society of the black leadership shift to brazilian political power more fervently, we saw those previous gains slow comes doll in some cases, reverse course in other cases. obama's election was the end product of a civil rights strategy that has prioritized political power, false power in my view to advance blacks in

eight years later we once again learn the limits of the strategy. i will stop there and take any questions. thank you. [applause] >> i will field questions -- [inaudible] [inaudible] >> would you compare your experience with the debate 100 years ago between booker t. washington about how blacks can rise from poverty.

>> well, i think the differences of the strategies between the boy and washington have been exaggerated over the decades. booker t. washington did not reject civil rights or the importance of advancing using the political system of the year and didn't reject the industrial learning the booker t. washington wanted to focus on. but you do see something there that blossomed in the post-civil rights. when it came to the choices that someone like martin luther king junior wanted to make in choices that more militant blacks wanted

to go. but the real difference i think between the old-school leadership in today's leadership is there is also a mindset that everyone who came to washington and the naacp in its early years were focused on their idea was that racism was a cause and here. we are going to have to succeed notwithstanding. the shift in attitude came in the second half of the 20th century where the attitude to see racism and anguish from america for blacks to be held responsible in thatmindset is what won the day in addition to the focus on political power, to encourage to adopt the political

players play off of endlessly and has also hampered the progress. [inaudible] economics editor of barron's. it creates a real political clout. to what extent if any would you specifically they greater political clout is to? i was intrigued to learn john mcwhorter is critical to what extent is it different from your view and how much does it respond to ways in which you might differ? >> on the first question, what tends to happen when you get a black leader who wants to play in politics as they become a politician and political

concerns. you can take education as an example. school choice is hugely popular in the black community particularly among the black poor, pulled off the chart, has for decades. barack obama tries to shut down a school voucher program. tries to shut down the school voucher program in louisiana. why? not because they are popular, not in demand. many of whom are minorities. he tried to shut it down because he had the political need to satisfy and delight did, mainly the teachers unions and he decides to do their bidding instead of ethnic voting blocs that played a large role as priority shifted by necessity he became a politician. that i think is how you can get

political clout can backfire on the group that sent the person not to represent them politically. in terms of john's criticism, john's criticism -- part of it really surrounded. he thinks the racial debate in this country has shifted more to the deindustrialization of the country and how he says the black intellectuals to his mind are really focused on blaming social pathologies in the ghetto and that is what lenin to the current state of affairs and he thought i should have done more to talk about that. i think it is a fair point and

they've been making this point for decades. i think they get the sequence wrong when they say that. in other words, the social breakdown in the 1960s proceeded. detroit didn't riot after. the riots came first. and so, that is my problem with that, but i was somewhat what john was criticizing about the book. mas blanc >> other precious? right here. make sure you raised your hand so i can see you. go ahead.

>> i want to thank you for your enlightening comments. i enjoy reading your op-ed pieces in your prior book. my question to you is a more personal one. i'm interested in the reactions you receive in the black community to your work. realizing of course that's not all of it. >> ray. that is the point. it really depends on who you're talking about in the black community. talking to clergymen for churchgoers sitting in pews, whether you're hbcus talking to students or whether you are at amherst talking to members of the black student union there, you will get three very different reactions. but they just depend on the

ideas. it depends. if you are speaking to people sympathetic to the naacp's seal and trying to help, you will get a negative response because a lot of what i write about makes a lot of what the naacp is talking about irrelevant. if the problems facing blacks today's are not primarily racial barriers or racism per se, there's not much use for an organization like that. to the extent they are going to be out there advocating against the charter schools, with the recently did, they are doing more harm.

so it is going to vary. >> okay, michael. michael goodwin. >> thank you. the question about president obama. your comments about bloc voting in the example with the teachers union is well said because the feeling he had in his campaign was where they going to go? the black voters who elected me are going to stay with me. a number of nonwhite people have made the point that after the obama years, there will then be this awakening the black power is not all it's cracked up to be, that politically there must be other ways. what do you think the republicans, independents need to do to attract black voters so they can have better integrated parties in the country as a

whole can be less divided racially. >> i think they need to show up in these neighborhoods. you can quibble over why that is or some other factor, but political expediency. they say we still don't need this vote to win. a lot of people in my camp over the years for saying they attract more hispanics, diversifying. they won't be able to win national elections. trump proved everyone wrong on that point. there is an argument that he proved everyone wrong. i still push back a little bit. if republican candidates want to do better among black voters, they need to spend more time in

black communities. they need to go to the barber shops in the grocery stores. they need to run political ads on black radio stations and touring shows that black people watch or websites they visited. i haven't seen that kind of concerted effort. you see from time to time among individuals in new jersey when it got elect in 2013, went into some of these cities. in the past, you've seen people do pretty well on that front. paul ryan of someone who's just traveled the country with people like bob weston, community leader has been there for a long time. when paula zahn to black colleges. they are much larger if you

remember the autopsy report after romney lost, but purdy said this is what you need to do going forward in this political earthquake with trump came along. >> okay, question back here. >> to what degree do you think there is a role for the black elite in the private sector to try to mobilize the black community to get a recognition of your view and to disseminate that message. >> there is a role. i mean, it depends coming in now, many members of that elite group have become convinced that it is the government that put them in the position they are in

today. in other words, spoken to groups of black or fashion dolls, centers were convinced the action for racial preferences would not exist. so you are still fighting a mindset that the democratic party has done a brilliant job of pushing on black america. not just urge independents among low income blacks, that even upper middle class blacks have a dependent mindset that we wouldn't be where we are today but for big government. and so it is a challenge. >> one question over here, right?

>> charles murray wrote in the 80s about the impact of welfare before and later in the 90s about the impact of family disintegration. if you look at the situation as it is right now, have you thought about what we could do policy lies superflat port lease was in the progress they made in the 50s and early 60s. >> well, from a government policy is, it is a question of what i would like to see the government stopped doing. programming needs to come along. stop doing things that we know don't work. so if we have welfare programs or government assistance programs that used to be safety nets, but in our traps for blacks to spend generation after generation on dependency.

we need to think what has been put in place regarding work. if we have kids trapped in failing schools, the school models we know work. stop copying their growth. if we know that we have a lot of that a nontrivial errors in brooklyn in or up in harlem who want to start their own service or store, cut the red tape. eliminate these items that hamper the growth. there are things the government can do to play a role mostly involved in some of the policy is tried in taking a more humble approach going forward. >> one more question and then we will wrap it up.

>> jason, you may recall ronald reagan got in trouble for going beyond what you said. he said some of the people who are black leaders actually want the situation to remain bad to even get worse because without the anger, the resentment, they are out of a job. did reagan go too far in suggesting any leaders have a vested interest in keeping the situation as the days and secondly, whether good or bad, minorities and women get their foot in the door for the first time that they can take it from there. did you keep or do away with the programs? >> i don't think that's the history. if you look at these case studies in places like atlanta to set aside programs to black

businesses for contractors and so forth. the idea that the programs are being used they are sold that way but that's not how they play out in practice. in terms of the incentives of black leaders, yes, there is some truth to that that black leaders gain or benefit politically by keeping blacks riled up, angry, racially paranoid and so forth. that is part of the reason why you stop obama indulge a group like black lives matter that it was politically useful for them to do that, even if he knows that cops are not driving -- police shootings are not driving the homicide rates. it was still politically useful for him to link to this group and say okay, you know, you have

some points here. that he wasn't going to shut them down and call it the nonsense that it is. so i think it is in there. i wouldn't take the argument to fire. i don't want to psychoanalyze these books. i think many of these groups and many people on the black left are trying to help in ways that they think work and many of them are sincere sinking more government will help so they pushed the government policies and they believe that. and they believe until racism has been eliminated it can serve as an all-purpose explanation for all that ails black america. they may believe that. i don't think it's true but i'm not going to sort of put that on the couch.

>> one final word. we are going to be a conference with jason neville elaborate on any of the things we discussed today. in the meantime i wish a very good luck with this book. thank you all for coming. [applause] [inaudible conversations]

>> i was trying to figure out my life as an astronaut, life is a city administrator for education. i was 24 years working with nasa's identity was gone because i retired, moved back home and the reason i moved home was to be with my dad and he's now gone. so that was a moment i'm really trying to dig deep in understanding the purpose and why i'm here. i was told mark twain told me the two most important days of your life or the day you were born in the day you figure out why. why were we born. what is the purpose? i was told by the editor that mark twain really didn't say that. so if you look in the book, there's no mark twain reference there. i still use mark twain because

it sounds kind of cool i think. you know, figuring the why out in as a society in this day and age and all the things that have gone on, all of us collectively figuring out why we are here to impact the people that are here that are going to be the explorers that help change our planet for the positive. that is why i wrote this book and you will share your story. it is the family community not giving up, believing in me when i didn't believe in myself and it is the journey of science, technology, arts and mathematics. i grew up not even knowing what spam was, but i was living it every day with piano lessons in building bicycles and all these different things and i think, you know, one of the things that will help us to this

civilization is when we realized that we are really on this really small blue marble together, technically working together as one civilization that we don't always see this happening every day. but from the vantage point of the international space station, when i look out over virginia in see my hometown from space, 240 miles in the distance from d.c. to new york is it really. going around the planet every 90 minutes in the sun rises and sets every 40 minutes. doing this with people. i was there with the russians and the germans in having these moments where i am flying over virginia. five minutes over paris where leo i heart's, one of my crewmates is looking down. my mom is probably eating down there too. in russia in a couple minutes he

shows you how connected we are as a people and then flying over afghanistan, looking down and seeing how beautiful it is, but knowing what is happening down there. aleppo, all of these places of unrest in fighting in the things going on, but from that vantage point that is simply stunning. i am going to try to get you all signed up for space exhibition. i've got some coupons appear. when sending your books, you might get the space that's right. but if you get an opportunity, whatever the experience you have to get to see those, it fundamentally, cognitively changes you as a person to make you want to do better when you see our planet from that vantage

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