estimate of cost of 2020 census which does not conform best practices. quality cost estimates can help an agency manage complex activities as well as help congress make funding decisions and provide sufficient oversight however, cost estimate only partially met characteristics of best practice and min malely met other best practices well documented incredible. bureau has not public released update to 2015 cost estimate yet several events since then

including changes requirements and procedures, the life cycle cost would be substantially higher than original estimate of $12.5 billion. the bureau's preparation for 2020 have been further complicated by ongoing vacancies in the positions of census director and deputy director. active leadership has since been named, turnover makes it difficult to ensure accountability and continuity as well as to mitigate risks and control costs over the long term. this concludes my prepared remarks, i will turn it over to my colleague who will discuss the risks facing census it efforts. >> chairman, gowdy, thank you for testifying to testify for 2020 census. the technologies if appropriately deployed can improve our nation's response rate and secure citizens' data, this technology has not been effectively planned or managed and much work remains to deliver

it. three areas require congressional attention to associate with the technologies, they are schedule, security and cost growth. i will expand on each of these starting with schedule. the bureau needs to deliver 44 systems, some are new systems in infrastructure while other changes to existing systems. clearly the internet response capability, mobile devices, centralized components are critical systems. systems need to be ready for end test that started in august to ensure that they are integrated appropriately. the bureau has missed many milestones and currently four of the 43 have completed development and testing o. of the remaining 29, 29 has delivered functionality, many of these systems are key delivery dates in early 2018 so that they can be included in the test. these systems include the

internet response, mobile device enumeration application and the fraud detection system. mobile device application has been running for some time and we have concerns of delivery of fraud detection system. i'm not sure i would agree with the secretary's comment this morning that the systems are on schedule. appendix lays out 43 delivery dates and we will be tracking closely for this committee. we are specially concerned that schedule pressure and late deliveries will result in compressed and inadequate testing turning to security, the bureau needs to continue diligence in area since it's been the target of recent cyber attacks, the bureau needs to minimize threat of fishing, secure 400 mobile devices and ensure security of cloud services and properly configure all systems. to ensure that all systems are secure as possible, the bureau needs to assess security controls, fix known deficiencies

and have the proper sign-off by both chief financial and office to ensure that each system is authorize today operate. the process is critical since 33 of the 43 systems contain identifiable information. we have concerns of whether there will be ample time to complete security work given delivery system and shortcuts taken to authorize prematurely. right now all 43 systems need to be authorized, reauthorized or authorized. this is a point that i think it's fair to say congressman homered quite well. finally, we have concerns ant cost growth associated with these technologies and have had these concerns for sometime. the cap program is mentioned by secretary ross in the system has overrun and now costing about a billion dollars. baseline it costs seem to be changing constantly, the latest

from bureau is it costs were 3.4 billion but the total did not include 1.4 billion bringing total cost closer to 5, not 3 and a half. as mentioned by secretary ross, the new life cycle estimate includes this additional billion and a half that was previously unaccounted for. we will be tracking these costs closely because given the remaining work and past mismanagement. we remained concerned about cost growth in this area even with built-in contingencies. in conclusion, cost growth are major concerns that we will monitor for the congress. mr. chairman, thank you for holding the hearing in oversight 2020. >> good morning, chairman gowdy and ranking members of the committee, i appreciate the opportunity to testify about the bureau's 2020 census life cycle cost estimate. we all support the bureau's ultimate goal to produce a high-quality census while minimizing costs.

but over the last several years we produced a number of report that is have found weaknesses in how the bureau allocates costs, collects cost data and estimates commodities for the 2020 census. my testimony today provides additional details about limitations. first, we found that the bureau's 2020 census life cycle cost estimate cannot be validated. second, much of our work throughout the decade reveals cost over-runs, unaccounted for costs and decreased cost avoidance. to the first point, the bureau's estimate is auditable. it takes into account more than 100 inputs but when we try to verify accuracy during 2014 census test there was no supporting documentation. additionally we have evaluated the review portion of the in-office operation and found that the estimate was derived from undocumented verbal conversations. the lack of documentation

prevented us from auditing the bureau reported to stakeholders. similarly we identified three instances where the bureau census test fail today keep cost data, both 2014 census test and the 2015 address validation test intend today collect cost data in the field but it didn't. finally, during the 2015 census test we found that the bureau could not differentiate between the cost performing enumeration versus administrative activities. therefore it cannot determine whether enumeration methods were more effective and more efficient than it was achieved by reducing administrative burdens. we found that the bureau reported costs basted on predetermined budget allocations instead of hours worked. in addition, we found multiple

instances where contractor costs with -- were not charged to accountability. it prevents bureau from making informed decisions. second, we are concerned about cost-over runs unaccounted for cost and, for example, the bureau initially predicted spending 666 million for subcap program and now 965 and now based on what the the secretary said, it'll be higher. also found substantial overruns. the bureau estimated that spending for in-office canvassing 44 million between fy16 and '19. finally, our valuation of -- evaluation 2017 costs, and we found operational control system

allowed to make more contact attempts than the cost estimate accounted for. so the expectation was they would go up to six times and we found them going many, many times. we are also concerned about increased unresolved rate as reserved in the test potential need to expand additional resources that are not accounted for in the bureau's cost estimate. in conclusion, we applaud the census bureau for undertaking several major initiatives to modernize operations. we recognize that not all of the innovations will perform as expected in some of 2020 cost savings may not materialize, however, stakeholders have confidence in cost estimates and must count by documenting and tracking all project costs correctly. i'm encouraged by recent efforts to improve the life cycle cost estimate. the bureau started linking

documentation to the variables in estimate and as we have just heard the secretary's task force worked closely with the bureau to improve that estimate. we are looking forward to reviewing that final product. so thank you very much for inviting me and i'm pleased to answer any questions. >> thank you. >> chairman gowdy and cummings, deeply engaged in the last several cycles, the leadership shares cost effective 2020 census and participation in the census, however, to uphold constitutional duty and ensure accurate and fully inclusive count. congress must allocate resources to count historically under counted communities as well as easier counted communities.

we are please today submit for e record two reports from the leadership conference in addressing both opportunities and the risks posed by the use of technology and of administrative records in the 2020 census. per the constitution, the overarching goal is fair and accurate enumeration of all people living in the united states on census day and the goal of a accept -- census that's equally successful in all communities is really nonnegotiable. these aren't republican goals or democratic goals, they are shared american goals and achieving them will be key to our representative system of government. but insufficient, uncertain and frequently late annual funding has delayed derailed important census, most at risk are operations that are specifically design today enumerate historically heard account communities. census bureau needs to study

ramp up, deployment of it architecture and feel infrastructure and development of a massive communications campaign that's going to encourage people to participate and therefore at the back end help keep costs in check. we support the proposal in congresswoman's bill, i won't go through details of that because you have that before you. census has political connell: -- consequences but the conduct of census must be strictly nonpartisan and strive to achieve equally accurate count in all communities. unfortunately, even with careful plans we may be looking at an environment that could yield significant underaccount in poor communities, rural areas, communities that are recovering from natural disaster, communities of color as well as under counts of young children, immigrants, deep concerns about cybersecurity and the security

of their information as well as in rural communities where the digital divide is particularly pronounced. there are hard account communities in every state and hard account populations in communities of all sizes from large urban areas to smaller cities to rural and remote communities including american indian tribal lands and reservations and key point to note for both members here, nearly 10% of census track in south carolina are hard to count percents uis bureau and 27% of baltimore's population live in hard account census tracks. regrettably we fear that the strict budget add to barriers, the census bureau is going to attempt but hamper by smaller fingerprint on the field. as you know when your --

veterans, advocates, businesses large and small, indeed all of us in the united states has to live with the results of it for the next ten years. leadership conference and member organizations look forward to working with all of you to ensure cost effective, secure and above all, accurate and inclusive census in every single one of our nation's communities, thank you. >> i want to thank all of you for opening statements. also thank you for doing it in less than five minutes. i hope you consider running some time. mr. cummings, my friend from maryland. >> certain population groups have historically been underaccounted in census specifically minorities such as african americans, hispanics and american indians on reservations

are counted at rates much lower than others. ms. gupta, why aren't the groups accounted? >> one particular concern is mistrust of the government and whether communities will be -- whether their information will be safe and not used for enforcement purposes or and the like particularly among immigrant communities, but there's also a real concern around the digital divide and what that might do with -- and i would say even with more acute in rural communities as well as, you know, real concerns around cybersecurity and whether their information is going to be breached and the like but a lot of the harder to count communities, communities of colors, there's a lot of mobility in these communities, they -- they need to be trusted

partners in the field from the census, whether it's through organizations like the ones that make up the leadership conference or through partnerships with the census bureau to have messengers that are explaining the purpose of the census, why it's important to be accounted and that's why the partnership program and the communications aspects to have census need to be adequately funded because without that, there's no chance of getting accurate count and that will ultimately fail the entire census and the country. >> one thing that secretary ross said to chairman and i the other day is that the cost of labor, he thinks has to be up, because you have to get a certain kind of person -- what you just talked about, and to get -- i was trying as you were talking, i was trying to figure out how do you penetrate that? how do you pass that problem because if people are not trusting of government, if they are worried about immigration

issues, maybe not for themselves but for family members and some people they don't even know what the census is. all they know is that the government is knocking on their door and any time the government is knocking on their door they assume it's something bad. i know because i lived in a neighborhood like that. how do you pass that? >> i really think it's critical that the census have, the bureau have the infrastructure around the communications machinery and the partnership program and we were encouraged -- i was encouraged today when i heard the secretary talk about projected communications budget of 500 million but it's important to ensure that there's enough money to actually promote census participation in our many diverse communities and to address some of the unprecedented challenge that is the 2020 census is going to be facing around as i said mistrust of government, cybersecurity fears, fears of federal government agencies and i think it's deeply important that the

commerce department and the census bureau consult closely with stakeholders who know these communities well who are in these communities who can be trusted marriages -- messengers and the value to be counted. that's the only way i think that we are going to be able to ensure that there's a fair and accurate count and, of course, there's already deep concerns about the canceled testing and the like that could have other implications for the accuracy of the census in the next -- in 2020. >> talking about the canceled testing. i understand that one test the bureau canceled in 2017 due to insufficient funds was to be conducted in tribal land, the standing rock, considering that native americans were the most unaccounted group in the 2010 census, this is very significant

what are the implications of canceling this and other tests particularly in rural areas in american indian reservations? >> well, there's a statistic that we have 87% of the hardest account counties were rural counties and given that this is the first high-tech census, i think there's a lot lot of questions, questions about cybersecurity, about whether technology is going to work, we want a modernize census, you have to be able to test it and testing it in rural communities as well as hard to count communities it's important to get it done in 2020 and the fact that they canceled because of insufficient funding three out of four test runs, it's of great concern and it will hamper this lack of preparation, you know, could very hamper the accuracy and fairness of the census count

in 2020. >> i have one last question. the alleged cost savings penny wise but found foolish, can you try to explain that to us? >> sure, the most cost-effective way to count people is when they fill out the questionnaire that's either mailed to them or when they self-respond via the internet. every time -- and if they don't self-respond through either of those methods then the census bureau has to send out enumerators to knock on their doors and as many as six times and so you can see how costs add up very quickly. both in terms of the time that the enumerators are paid for, the wage that is they earn as

well as mileage that they are reimbursed. most cost-effective way to conduct census is to get up and increase initial count. >> gentleman yields back. i really am struggling think of something that you see that far in advance that's coming, so not to ask this in a too sophisticated way, how the hell did we get there if we know it's coming, how do you get on a critical watch list? >> the thing that's frustrating is the same thing happened in 2010 and we were involved in 2010, that's when we canceled the ham-held project. the committee held multiple hearings. the interesting comment that secretary ross talked about 80% of the money is going from

beyond 2018. from an it perspective, that should not be the case. we should start early, plan more appropriately, get the right contracts in place and deliver. what happens with the historically is going to happen again, can we get this done late and secure, yes, you know what it's going to be, it's going to be a higher cost. you pay a premium for doing everything late. i would have major concerns about the 15 point 6 and still hitting that even with the 10% when you look at it management of this. the thing that's good is having the commerce department govern in oversight. i think that will help but we still haven't changed basic management and how we are doing things at the census bureau. we would still have concerns about additional cost overruns going forward but it's not acceptable that we repeat the same sins of the past that we do every ten years.

>> it's hard to explain to the same people that you're trying to convince to -- to voluntarily comply which leads to my next question. what are the impediments, what are the impediments to what i call voluntary compliance although i'm sure that's not the right technical term? >> sure, there are a number of barriers, one that was already mentioned, decline civic engagement. people are disconnected from the government, you know, so that requires trust, building trust between the census bureau and the public. there's also a cultural divide. when the government comes knocking on your door, the census is sometimes seen as not something done for you or your behalf, it's seen as something done to you, it's not always seen in a positive light. then there's structural barriers, people living in

make-shift housing, nonconventional housing, people doubling up, people living in basements and converted attics so they are physically hard to find, language barriers out there, so just reaching those folks is difficult as well and this is why all this up front work is so important and why the census bureau is at the point that it is right now. it's very difficult to make up for either funding that was not provided or time that's already elapsed. you can get behind the curb very quickly. >> accepting the fact that we can't do all of the preplanning for 2020 that needed to be done in 2012, 2013, the best we can do is 2030 census there with specific reference to the 2020 that's coming up. if i heard the testimony right, there's an opening in the census

director's office. so we will start with ms. gupta, if you were the census director, if you got to do it in one day or the chance that mr. ross or folks maybe listening, what is the single most important thing you would do today for the 2020 census? >> it's hard to say a single thing, a couple of things need to happen all at once, it infrastructure needs to be tested for all of the reasons that have been previously stated and i think that the partnership and communications campaign need to be out there starting in the next couple of months. they have to ramp up this whole infrastructure in order to really educate folks about why it's important to be accounted and to overcome some of the real concerns around trusting government and cybersecurity and so -- you know, i want to add that when the secretary was testifying he said that he anticipated 800 partnership specialists which is well below

the 2010 number of 2,800 and so those plans are inadequate and i think right now there's a lot of concern that the hardest account communities are not going to be adequately counted and that will result in a failed census even with the 1.6 billion if allocated. there has to be an immediate investment in that infrastructure and kind of real planning around it just as there is with the it. >> ms. rice, what's the single most or two, if you want, what needs to be done given the fact that we can't change the lack of preplanning? >> i really think it infrastructure has to be in place. we don't want to be in position in 2010 where they had to revert to paper-base operation in the last minute and they didn't have the -- they had some infrastructure there and they had to build on it and it was a problem. there were backlogs and they -- you know, the office sizes weren't compatible for paper operation. it was just trickled down all

the problems, they got it done, but it wasn't pretty. so getting that it infrastructure in place. >> you can't use the word infrastructure, what would you do? >> so with the it and that's my world, mr. chairman, i would say those 43 systems need to be delivered and secured. we have this data in our testimony that looks all neat and it's very difficult to get a handle on where all the systems are in integration security, that needs to be managed weekly. someone needs to dog that weekly in terms of what got done and what remains and are we going to hit the dates, there's key dates in early 2018 that are key to getting this stuff delivered to being included in the end test. you have to dog the 43 systems from a security perspective, chairman, representative hurts comments, it's fine to bring in people, you need to actually do the assessments and fix the

vulnerabilities and sign off apo's, you need to make sure that gets done and we don't have a major breach. >> last question. it's not going to be remedied overnight. what is something that perhaps members of congress haven't thought about or what's something that you would do to try to restore some public trust so we can raise the voluntary compliance rate in 2020? >> sure, it's -- i don't -- off the top of my head, i don't think there's anything new. i would certainly be leery of trying anything that has not been used before at this point because it'll be one more risk for the bureau to have to manage. what i think needs to be done is focus on the try and truth methods, things that are known to work and i would point to partnership specialists and the whole communication and outreach campaign. the partnerships specialists are so critical for engaging the

different people that they represent, their different stakeholders groups and they are the once who create the trust, they are the trusted voices. if, you know, secretary ross or any of us goes up on tv or, you know, makes, encourages people to respond to the census, it's not going to have the same level of response as people who know the community, your local minister, school principal. it was mentioned before that the census bureau hopes to hire as many as 800 partnership specialists, that sounds like a large number. if you look at the workload, over 3,000 counties in the country, that's a huge workload for them. it's a three-dimensional issue. they have to cover both physical geography, different channels of communication and plus the deep dive into different communities and focus on partnership campaign and making sure that's adequately funding and get the

resources they need will be critical for increasing account and hard to count communities. >> mr. palmer. >> thank you, mr. chairman. ms. rice, can you provide your initial thoughts and observations of the 2018 end testing? >> sure. so we did visit all three locations and found -- just to remind everybody about 2010. they actually did use a device in 2010. the field data collection automation worked -- so using a device in the field, they did last decenial, when all things considered, okay. i didn't see any major -- >> was there any aspect of the testing raising any potential issues for future address

canvassing. >> we did think that in the rural areas, there's something called the optimizer that it one as efficient as maybe it could have been. your office raises some issues, cost estimates and as well as warning that increase in the canvassing could increase costs. will the percentage of addresses sent for infield work during testing be a factor and -- in your review as you consider that issue? >> yes. so the office address on whether

something blocked. we plan to look at that to see how well it works it isn't predicting-- >> that part of the increase in the cost estimate is that already taken into account into addition to what we are needing now? >> my understanding is because it's his-- consisted of two pieces and interactive review which is satellite imagery in the second block resolution where they take the results from imagery and try to find the

households they canceled the review and those housing units will go into infield canvassing creating an increase. >> six gary ross got a little intense with questions questions we are asking and part of the issue is that this bureau has, i think, pretty evident and poor track record in addressing flaws and problems that have been identified by the office and the ga zero. would you like to enlighten us a little bit on this relationship between your office and the census bureau and their willingness to follow-up on the the things you suggested. >> in that respect we are encouraged by willingness to work with us and other stakeholder groups.

just an example in the way we engage the census bureau on a monthly basis we meet with the acting director and deputy director and before that with the director of the census bureau. we share information about ongoing problems. we have regular discussions about the progress they are making on implementing our recommendations. they are much more transparent than they used to be. i've been involved with senses issue since 1997 and there has been a change in terms of the culture at the census bureau and their willingness to work with outside groups and going into the 2000 senses it was very standoffish, try to keep ga zero at bay and other organizations. now they embrace our recommendations and that goes all the way up to the department of commerce level.

we have had meetings with commerce secretary and they have been various sector-- effective and willing to work with us. you said currently i think i'm not sure exactly the way you used it, but one of the questions raised to secretary ross is the fact that gao had a high risk list and you issued 30 ruminations over three years, but only six were fully implemented by january and obviously under secretary ross he inherited that problem. i think what we on the committee would like to determine is how much willingness is there to work with the gao or with the oig office to resolve these issues and do it in a timely manner. is that what you are finding now that there is this willingness? >> absolutely. they really embrace our recommendations now, and that was not the case a decade or more ago. >> i think both of your offices have expressed concern with

failing to adequately test systems and products and that was one of the issues raised by my colleague from georgia. i appreciated secretary ross' answer that you can't test a system until it's in place, that one of the things again that we emphasized to the secretaries we want to test the systems and we want the test results used in the decision-making process. are you finding them to be working in an agreeable manner on that? >> first of all, they had delivered the system so once we get all the systems deliver there is a plan to test in it integrated fashion. they did hire and integration contractor to help and we think that's a good thing. the issue as a kennel he get that delivered, integrated and secured in the time that remains is highly likely not everything will be in the 2018, so it is

that mean? that means they will have to test it post and again, it's not that it can't be done, but you are compressing testing schedules. higher risk, more cost and that type of thing. that is something we will monitor quote-- closely. >> when was the contract awarded to the contractor? >> that would have been in the summer of 16. >> is very reason why they can't get the work done so they could be tested pre-census? >> they are trying to get it done pre-census, i mean, they are working hard to get that done that integration contractor is relying on other contractors to deliver their systems and again we missed milestones and had late starts in a kind of inherited a bad problem so they are coming into mop up. >> i appreciate your willingness to come before the committee today and answer our questions.

with that, mr. chairman, i yield back. >> on the half the members of the canadian want to thank you for your time today, your expertise and commitment to an accurate census in 2020. the record will remain open for two weeks. submit questions for the record. no further business. thank you again for your testimony today and we are adjourned.

>> coming up this morning president trump headlines the voters summit in washington dc. the family research council has hosted the summit for the last 12 years. to hear can-- from key conservatives and after the present we hear from mark

meadows and counselor to the president kellyanne conway live starting at 8:45 a.m. eastern here on c-span2. in the afternoon our coverage continues on c-span with alabama senate candidate and former state supreme court judge roy moore. house majority whip steve scalise and many more conservative leaders scheduled to address the group starting at 2:00 p.m. eastern on a c-span. last week former president bill clinton and former canadian prime minister jean chretien look back on their experiences negotiating the original nafta. next we will see the conversation from the canadian american business council in montréal. it runs just over an hour. ♪ ♪