[inaudible >> we will get started per hour you doing? [applause] >> i am the public programs

coordinator here. and then to help us launch our new experience. september 24 through the 30th with the freedom to leave at the strand bookstore. this is a new monthly series. to provide as with an amazing platform. with those leaders alike. this monday october 2nd we will speak about creative border crossings. and we have an into a writer with our intimate conversation and then

looking back and forward. please join us for these events the one in december is the peer the others are downstairs. i want to take a moment to thank the stranded team better so instrumental to pull this series together. so finally it is my pleasure to introduce the odor of the strand bookstore. [applause] >> we're so happy to have you here. and to be founded with my

grandfather we were part of the book row that was an area along fourth avenue so there were 40 bookstores today we have survived so i have very thankful to readers and writers like you. and as the tireless defenders of freedom of expression and some of those whose books have been banned or challenge because of the presentation content we're so proud to have these authors on our shelves and

with us tonight. david is the author of two boys kissing with a two -- which it did fix which is exactly that. is also author of many others also the editorial editor to scholastic working on my kid's favorite series the babysitters club then we have coe booth who is on his portrayals of inner-city life that with challenges across the country planned and a bronx native who has the nsa in creative rot -- read and the ma is ecology also working emergency

children service inspired her first novel that was the l.a. times book prize reasonable literature. her most recent novel was chosen as one of the best books of 2014. and the multi talented area. and then when they self published comics about the high-school life was still attending the school. so that, make an apology has received multiple challenges to the explicit language and content for right there a middle school.

also we have jason publisher and co-founder of the largest multi-cultural children's book publisher in the united states. and these wonderful voices and welcome them to the strand. [applause] >> first woodstock about these important issue is especially with his billing nine nowadays but to inform you of the american library association intellectual freedom. and those that challenge.

that basically there are half of challenged books are diverse books. and that definition of diverse that is well put that is essential to write off a lot of articles. and those diverse books have to do with nonwhite characters the lgbt character, disabled characters were issues of race and religion and non-western settings. so all those books that they publish and those that published as well.

so david talk about the cover of two boys kissing. >> in the images a literal interpretation of what the book is about at the same time has led to numerous book challenges because we all know that many books that are challenged those that have never read the book. and a statement they are trying to have that push back. in terms of challenges. >> and with that central even the employees who make the guinness book of world record for world's longest tenuis kids over 35 hours so

there are other boys around them who also have a story lines. the book was always tired old "two boys kissing" so it was pretty much not guaranteed that pretty much guaranteed they would show "two boys kissing" on the cover and that is exactly what it amounts to with a photo by a head of school photographer. once it is called "two boys kissing" certainly having the kids on the cover made it easier to be criticized even with the blanket cover we would have had challenges that they all have clear content that is the trend so

that supposition is that to challenge about that identity the 95 percent of the time it is not successful so i knew very entitling the book that way would certainly to attack and challenge by the other option is to never talk about a. >> so of course, when does a grosso identities is not an option. because somebody doesn't want them to exist. >> when you were growing up did you see any books like

this?. >> certainly not any covers like that. so in that embassy with a weird books like danny on my mind. but that's the change did not happen until the last decade or 15 years. once the seat changed now to have as many clear voices out there as possible. >> you said you started 19 in publishing did it ever occur to you to do than what you're doing now back then?. >> not with the path that it took is not what i would

have expected. and maybe it is the reason people loved it. and it wasn't so afraid to tell the truth to kids when it came to telling my own truth. it made absolute sense. so if you say what will you do at 19? there is amazing room in the same and. this would not have been the top guests but it does feel very natural. of those who individually decided to write about our own vanity when negative amenities that i just happen to be a part of that.

>> coe booth while this panel is about handbook's about soft censorship. like the book is on the download. when books are deemed inappropriate by an educator like a librarian or principal before the challenger actually occurs. that means for a classroom. and to grow up in the bronx. and then a book that you see behind me so tell us about that book and then to tell

us your reaction of the suburban school librarian or teacher who comes from the predominantly white student body so of your books are my students could never relate? >> i have had that specific thing said to me. so with teacher came up to me to say we only have to ethnic scoot students and our school. >> other students are totally devoid of ethnicity and are hatched. [laughter]

and you only teach them books about what they already know? you will not teach them anything else? and a little bit about my book come it takes the story of a 15 year-old boy in the bronze in that he and his little brother are homeless and to get out of the shelter that they are in which is disgusting and gross. and it does have curse words. so now i forgot the question. [laughter] >> i don't get full censorship is more soft. that our students will not relate to this.

this is not for us. they have been in the school library and day literally brings have put out for black history month but is never available is behind the glass case you cannot check it out it is part of the artwork. and it just is not available. but it is never shelled with the of their gross it is segregated literally to the back of the library they call that urban literature or st. literature. so it is in the back so it is then mixed in with the of their books. so that is where my books are. it is very frustrating end

so it is frustrating it is so fabricated that remove from people stumbling upon and it. >> what they talk about really is the segregation. to cut down on the discover ability of the book itself. no one can pick this up. >> q deliberately have to be looking for this. those who are not black and read the book and related.

>> yes. i get a lot of letters from kids that tell me they related to it is because they think what the story is about not just to with his about. bid to be on different levels. and that they could do that. >> what are adults afraid of?. >> i can tell you. such to be in their home or community that is a little scary. maybe if it is inner-city they know exactly what it is but we move to the suburbs for a reason. we don't want that book around our kid.

they don't think it is the story of a little boy trying to help his family is the setting and the language he uses. it is off-putting even without reading it. >> isn't about those socio-economic thing is happening. there is a whole host of things to crossover. >>. >> so that entire black latino community we read catcher in the rye and nobody said they will not relate to that.

so why isn't it the other way around? so why can't they read something just as hard?. >> why not?. >> your anthologies' stuck in the middle has been challenged a number of times successfully defended. and to remove from the of library from the of recommended reading list as required reading. so tell us a bit about the anthology's stuck in the middle and those of are related to book challenges. it how you successfully

defend the book. >> stuck give the middle is the anthologies of comments about middle school by 17 cartoonist and it is really tame. i have written about my high school experiences those are explicit with the naked teenagers but because those books are published for adults specifically is that why they had never been challenged but stuck in the middle is marketed to come under this type of scrutiny but there is nothing that bad. the word bitch we don't even have the word fuck it looks

like f--k talking about eating insects or a panel or of the teenager smoking so there really is not that bad bet i feet because it is a comic-book this is why it comes under these challenges. so that is the issue of the parents open that up to see they may not find in the pros book but it is noticeable. to see teenagers talking about sex in a way with the speech balloons. to immediately say that is bad i don't like that. and with the pros but actually have to read that.

so the kids bring home the comic and then realize it needs to go. it is targeted for being a comic. and in terms of successfully defending it to have the comic book legal defense fund that comes to its defense which is amazing because images can be considered pornographic the way that prose cannot. so that jobs to the defense of the book but they do manage to keep that on the shelf. >> is that a reader activism people speaking on behalf of

your book? that people don't feel that passionately because it isn't a big deal. and then worth defending bin not use of the word bitch? in a short comic? i don't know. so i want to fight for the use of the word bitch in the comic. [laughter] because talk about diverse books i write a lot the kids in middle school there isn't too much sexuality at all but what is there there really is not that

scandalous. >> moving right along so in 2015 to under 75 books challenged in the united states however the actual statistics could be two or three times higher the reason for that is if the of principle receives a complaint about a book sometimes he will take the buck out of circulation and hide it away. so that sidesteps any protocol to be formally challenged now the reason i mention this is because the intolerance of diversity in general seems to be on the rise for the kinds of books we all do.

as an author do you feel a greater responsibility to represent the lgbt community ?. >> would that be funny if the answer was no? [laughter] of course. of course, that is for the author point of view. it is a very hard position to be in. the worst thing you can say to the offer that goes for a challenge that is great you must be selling more books. that could be true but the difficult part there is a library and horror teacher defending your book. they always do a fantastic job but it is strange to know somebody's job to be on the line because of something you wrote. ninety-five% of the time to end up to be okay and i

never met an author whose book was banned gore challenged then wanted to back away. that just makes you push harder to tell the truth you want to tell. to know there are so many of those to make you say are trusting me to be as honest as possible to represent with average india want to represent as long as it is possible. my part of the bargain is to do that. angeles is a defendant when it is challenged that does not come through a formal process the from the

administrator but from pressure to not order books called "two boys kissing" or have black kids on the cover. >>. >> clearly we have a vice principal in the audience lot of and the goal of the challenges to intimidate you and silence you and the result is to energize and make you want to speak louder. >> so back to you working in a child protective services so parents seem to have little control over the

other forms of entertainment they consume on a regular basis like tb or video games so why do people still challenged books? why are they singing about over other entertainment? is there psychology to this?. >> parents understand books they don't know what they're looking at on their phone. what is the cat?. >> that is the intimacy of books. if you take the book to bed with you it is in your system and a different way and the remember brooks boiler ever.

so it is that level of intimacy. >> to think the books are easy targets that there is a grand american and tradition. but then not realizing but then people defend in the of books whether it is a clear identity is much easier for them to attack the of book to attack people in the school itself to say in

terms of students but to attack the book as a symbol and they feel that is more acceptable. >> there is the idea of books are supposed to be for error learning the most of the people that challenge bookstall read fiction so they don't know if they have this fucked up reality of the inner-city life said to target these books they don't realize that most other books are that intense they just think this is now with their kids should be doing and all. >> so with those sites that

pull out the elements. >> palin's get those elements such to find those things to latch on to the they don't see the book as well whole thing but that they feel empathy for people the things that you can learn maybe not facts and figures how to see another person's life to walk in their shoes. it just reduces the book down to moody's basic things that cheapens the whole experience.

>> looking back on the challenges they faced. working on the horizon for you. and then to avoid future challenges. so why would you do that? so this is the only book at this level i have published i dunno if we have that in mind. and i could leave something in not get the book into the

libraries. but i think i would need somebody else to say let's talk about this. >> because that is just the death. >> so writing diverse books. >> not only do you have to be a good writer to tell the compelling story but with the responsibility to shoulder a koch is to accurately represent those marginalized voices. that is hard work were a lot of people involved. there is a lot of people

themselves. and the time the defend the books sitting here on a monday night takes away from the time you could be writing. >> that question was the blue book eggs the ems. >> they are two different questions year. that you should be defending anything the you have written. specifically when your book

is relax -- attacked it gives it a different element. when the censored for the of witchcraft then wizardry they don't take that personally. has when books are censored because they have content or even is not writing about her own sexuality. so that the mantle that you love are attacked. and you have to take on a bird in. it is an action of self-defense. in these indemnities but the

great thing is i ailey's have gotten my story about in 200 pages. not 140 characters. if they can and thoughtfully and contextual the give a viewpoint into identities when the push back coker's and happily engaged in that conversation because i'm not just talking about what my books are about talking about who i am. and the book i had written that was not. but that is because of your own identity. >> but it seems so exhausting to defend that is

the only thing criticized. and to live in the inner city. that is do they are afraid of for gore really? then you are afraid of me. so not just based on the of content or who it is about it just it's really frustrating after a while. >>. >> with the diverse book is similar experiences to have that conversation over and over. bid to say they're happy to do with. >> so low that frustrating

and fucked up conversation juror having 99.9 percent of adults when you're actually talking to the teens that are reading the book reading different voices and those that are protecting them. and that gives me hope so i'm going in talking about my book every day to the gymnasiums of 2,000 kids to talk about by a married gender -- by gary gender but but sometimes you can see the in minister raiders say

okay. so of course, the kids say yes i am binary gender. so those things that our controversial is all about the gatekeeper but those that see them in terms of the kids that are around them. it is not as scandalous to them. >> there has been a lot of progress. the you could never picture yourself doing this. this is a whole full part of this talk tonight but this is all the time we have for this part of the

conversation. now we go to q&a?. >> please raise your hand. >>. >> my name is peter. this is a common question director -- directed toward a portion of when you spoke.

young readers not seen differences. and i will digress briefly with alcoholics anonymous to look at the range of people to say i am not like that. somebody with some wisdom can listen for the feelings. so that is what it is like to feel the same thing. how did they come to that realization? and it is very important.

>> the kids today are so open to it. i don't think day necessarily see the division to put in front of them. and they are open to that already. getting a hold of my book for a lot of kids so the adults say that isn't the book for you. and not thinking they would relate. so as they read it almost sounds like they were a little surprised. white kid in the suburbs. i found your book and he and i are the same in this way.

and to find the connection. think yes. >>. >> my name is jason. the idea of banned books comes from the idea of the regime in this seems like with the more subtler form. when you have opposition from schools so a elaborate on what that looks like. so is it the school

superintendent if it is just one superintendent than that seems insane. >> the most challenges are the ones attracted by the american library association usually a parent who files of complaint with the school or public library then it becomes an issue. certainly sometimes it is usually the one parent alone the tax law of book there is not a groundswell but sometimes the community divided in many people are on the side of the challenger as well as the defender and you never know what you will get. so from both schools it ali takes one person to file a complaint and much to the

extreme annoyance of the librarians and teachers who have to defend it isn't the question they have to read the book to challenge it just because what they read on the back cover copy or article on the web site or the front cover. there is no requirement that there is more stringent requirements for when you go to the process but not to file. >> i had to have a challenge in virginia at a parent challenge my book. both of the books from the school reading lists and she challenged it as one parent it should not be on the summer reading list and then the state senator and said

these were pornographic and then there was a big thing in the newspaper and eventually was not successful. and with a lot of schools. so it was not successful. and anybody that did not like the book. >> would you recommend and why?. >>. >> i loved that book it just

warms my heart to have such an honest voice with the security and the story is so heartbreaking. >> because it is a great example challenged four-lane bridge with the use of the f bomb is so deliver it that total degradation of this character that was forced to use it it took the irony of the fact they don't use it gratuitously add all it is so meaningful and people are freaked out is usually successfully defended. >> i have a newborn son so i will go with anting go makes three.

which is say book about the male penguin raising the baby penguin at the central park soo. so anything that can start children as young as possible and that is incredibly sad. >> i will just throw in and i am reading beloved by a tony morrison right now. suggest in terms of how that is unfolding very slowly. it is just so gut-wrenching. it is a must read.

>> i want to get your thoughts on something i grew up reading everything the finding the books retried to do read in school and then a few years ago i found out they were studying but that they read school books but maybe not the tissue rand your list? but with those diversity things but also affair is just an ignorance not having a clue what the kids are going through and that they will actually be helpful for your kids growing up.

so the fear and ignorance so i grew up reading if you actually give them books that they want to. >> with your statement about ignorance because of a lot of the rhetoric you hear in the news nowadays is complete ignorance about culture that is a no-brainer but that problem for a lot of people so if you grow up reading diverse books you have that window that would change as a person.

but indeed they get in deep i think that would be hard to shake that off. >> but they are not open but they want to lamp have their kids read the same books they read they are not open to new things. they are afraid it is fear of letting in something new. those that are a diverse. so we never read anything good in school either. but i like to read middle school and high-school.

and many are reading way better books. >> so many teachers and librarians there are some that our ignorant to them or with of mandate so it is the on going to diversify the with the old and in with the new to make those commanding voice is are represented. >> so i was so shocked when i heard there were books in the u.s. and i could not

believe it. so do you cnn? not in europe. where the kids are allowed to read. >> there is known change in the next 3-1/2 years. nothing will change. [laughter] this will sound really strange. >> the interesting thing of our censorship that there are procedures and challenges it is harder to be published the publishing

mechanisms. and then you get this clear voice is published so we are ahead of the curve to get a lot of choices out there. . . . . top ten ranking i may add, but again, i don't mind it because we know about it because we are engaged in fighting it and it isn't proclaimed by the forces that are trying to ban

the books. it's proclaimed by the table presenting them coming and we are making noise and pointing it out because we don't want it to have been silently and we don't want people to get away with it. instead, we loudly make it an issue because we believe in the freedom of speech, and we believe that there should be a freedom to read but also because we know our piece of the battle is just a metaphor for the much larger battle of ideas so we call into question because we want attention to be paid to it and we don't know that other countries necessarily wouldn't want it so it is complicated, but certainly it is unique to us. >> outdoor books been translated to other languages?

>> it has that and other countries they are more embracing but how they treat people and their culture is reflected by how they treat literature. >> what about the cover art? >> by and large the cover art has stayed. i will add to that in no other time in the human history has the voice of the individual then empowered the way it is for better or worse, so i think that these things are in the open. there is protocol when a book is challenged and it is hard to challenge it because you can make a decision but that doesn't mean you can have the right to make a decision for everybody's kid, so i think they make it

hard for any reason and many of the challenges actually fail but then also, you know, i was saying the individual voices are more powerful, and it goes both ways. like everybody if they see something they have to say something, they can't just let it slide. once you decide it's not worth fighting this book maybe it's not worth fighting back or that spoke. but we are living in an interesting time. in a similar vein to the question asked here in this moment waking up to the paradox of free speech realizing that if you are going to allow speech that impedes upon the other to express themselves and there's going to be problems. 54% of millennialist thinks not

also be protected and there is a fear of that especially in the right. i'm wondering as people that have been marginalized if you are sort of american reaction of freedom of speech contrast with who you are as a person and if you struggle with the issues on the. >> that is the paradox if you are in it for your self you better be in i in at 4 a.m. cou, too, and you have to if you believe in the freedom of speech, you believe in the freedom and that is including the people saying hateful things about you. but i think you are. now do i believe every major

publisher should give millions of dollars to people that spew hate, no i don't and i don't think freedom of speech means you get a lot of money for it or for publishing marketing behind it. but do i believe everybody has the right to see what they want and every book has the right to be published by somebody? yes, i do and if you can't you can't cherry pick when it comes to free speech given if that means you have to defend things that are extraordinary to you of what they are talking about. i'm a recently retired education professor from hunter college.

they are learning that english. a book was dropped from a short list of adult books to go because the author was pretending to be native american and he wasn't in favor of a sample of the book. sometimes just the authenticity of the books can be offputting

to people and make them want to challenge them a little more. >> i think so. we went through a stage where most of the books about were not written and it was a little bit more palatable for people there's always one thing or i loved the story, my students would say like i'm white but all my students are black and lati latino. that's too much.

a lot of times they say they don't like that i used the n-word in the book and even though it is always used as a synonym for guy or do and not in a negative way, as a white teacher they can't teach it because they are uncomfortable with that word even though they knew they would be able to relate to the book it is almost like it's too much. this part of the authenticity is just a little bit can't do it. it's just so frustrating. so, yes i do think that is something they have to get over.

have you ever been censored out an earlier stage before you are published fo for media and editf this part may not be great or so as well because it would be less palatable to everyone, just wondering if yo you had any experiences like that but you would have to find in the process. >> that seems so idiotic to me. we know what the word is. do you think it is for? [laughter] it was just terrible, so that upsets me. it also upsets me in retrospect it's getting challenged all over the place. i would rather have just said fuck. [laughter]

i remember you said it wouldn't be a problem but you said righte a book the way you want it and then we will talk later. i'm going to tell the story i want to tell and then i kept waiting for the talk and it never happened so i like that i had that freedom to not think about anybody outside of this but just tell the story the way that it needs to be told and not worry about any of that and i try to carry that forward in the next book. >> i'm going to leave the room and she's going to tell you the truth. [laughter] >> i'v >> i've been very lucky with random house if anything, they encouraged me to do whatever i

wanted. i mean, trusting me that i wasn't do things just we all love that everything has to be organic to the story and true to the characters and if that is the case, then one of the exciting things goes because you are giving context is looking at through the lens and that frees you up to come up with things like okay i'm going to do this and then others just, pandora mike i didn't think i was going to go there but then i did and i never had an editor say to me are you sure you want to go there, so that's been fantastic. >> i remember when i was in my program at the school, one of the teachers read my work and

said he liked it and i said i think so. that was pretty much the only time somebody was worried if it would fit in but other than that, no. >> i'm wondering how these challenges usually resolve. is it always the internal process and do they ever have to go to court or rely on some other process to fight for your books? >> whether it is through the library system or the school system again almost every system has a protocol that is followed. now something it goes to the school board meetings and other times politicians get involved and you do have legislative

attempts which are in my mind the hysterical in both senses of the term like oklahoma a few years ago there was a legislature that proposed a bill to pull from the shelves of all public libraries and otherwise and the books that had any mention of homosexuality which would reduce the collection significantly. it didn't pass, sometimes if the official process upholds the book, there will be attempts, not lawsuits, but legislative attempts to disenfranchise people or create the wall to get the books off the shelves. but again the majority of the time those efforts failed. >> wasn't there an attempt to get rid of all the books, mexican or mexican-american

books it was unbelievable. they felt like i was getting into the politics of immigration and they didn't want kids to learn about any of that. >> [inaudible] it was to end a mexican studies program in tucson. >> they didn't want any of his books, god forbid. it was the craziest thing. >> we have time for one final question. >> i am translating a question from a 12-year-old. he's too shy to ask the question, but the question is is

there a relationship between the banned books and pop-culture and his point is that kids are sharing the idea that these are free and pop-culture but the parents media are not understanding that so therefore the books were getting banned. >> said the pop-culture is allowed but the books are being banned. and also maybe the pop-culture is connected to the books in some ways. >> that is a good question. [laughter] >> i think the appearance understanding of the pop-culture but they don't understand the books. i'm not even a parent and i know nothing about pop-culture. i feel their pain, but they don't understand what you kids

are looking at these days or playing and they don't understand it so the only thing they understand our books. >> and i think not to be in armchair therapist but to state the obvious, book challenges are about control. they are about a parent trying to control the environment and the wilfor both the child livesd a certain set of values upon the child or the children around them not just for their own child, but for everybody. and often times, it is the only thing they can attack in the localized sense. they cannot challenge facebook about the identity john fox that they have. they cannot challenge the radio to get the songs of green day

band. sometimes they do protest the local movie theater but by and large, those things are out of their control and pop-culture is out of their control. something that is within their control are the books that are in their child's school or the public library. so it is easier to attack those and they will be listened to in a way they will not be listened to if they try to pull something down off of youtube because they don't like the fact that it is posited to there is a direct correlation that as a world is scarier to these parents and they are feeling that they are not having the control that they wanted to over the world that their children live in, again they think books are the easy targets because books just sits there, but the good news is whenever a book is challenged much to their surprise, the defenders to spring up and it is

a defenseless object and becomes an incredibly well defended object by bookstores like this one, by libraries and schools and people who are here and so there is a whole apparatus they don't know and they think they've got the easy target but in fact it is not, it is the hard one. >> what an amazing launch to the week. thank you, panelists. [applause] the authors have agreed to stick around and sign copies of the book of able at the registers and so take advantage of it. thank you penn america, c-span, thank you all for coming. [applause]