they continue the history of the jewish people. the accidental president looks at the challenges they faced during his first four months in office. with aj bain. in blood brothers explore the relationship between the sitting bull in buffalo bill and gordon would cause the friendship between don abbott's. look for these titles and book stores this coming week and watch for many of the authors in the near future on book tv on c-span two. they discuss the topics of banning books in schools and libraries. the language some may find offensive.

hi everyone. i think we're going to get started. i hope everyone is doing good. my name is lily and i'm not public programs according to. we are so glad that you joined us. to celebrate them and help us launch our new series pet out loud. they will be introduced momentarily. it is a new monthly series presented by pen america. provides us with an amazing topic.

the free expression. next monday october 2 it will be back on the second floor. we will speak about border crossings. we will welcome the poets. on december 11. we are performing that. the national book award. the one in december will be appear. the other two will be downstairs on the second floor. i want to take a minute on the rest of the team been so judgmental for pulling this

together. finally is my pleasure to introduce nancy wyden. [applause]. thank you lily. i'm so happy to have you here. the strand was founded by my grandfather couple years ago in 1927 and up until three months ago because he retired. we were part of our rope which was an area that ran along fourth avenue from union place. there were 48 bookstores in today's we have survived years of big box stores. i'm very thankful readers and writers like you.

we're so honored to be celebrating banned book week. the tireless defender of freedom of expression in this awesome panel of authors right here his books have been banned or challenged challenge because of the presentation in the content we are so proud to have these authors on the shelf. david -- david levin thing is here. here is the author of the wealth of award-winning novels. nick and nora's and the grayson which is on grain. also editorial director where

you have to start working on the kids favorite series. the honest portrayal of inner city inner-city life have met with challenges across the country. the experience of working with a social worker. they inspired the first novel which is the los angeles times book prize for young price for young adult literature. her most recent novel kind of like brothers was chosen by npr as one of the best books of 2014 and an ala noble book for children. then we have the multi talented area creative right here. it started early when she have

the public comments. since then she has published the graphic memoir's awkward definition along with the novel at adam. her comment has received multiple challenges due to its explicit language and content depicting life in middle school. also here to moderate this powerful panel is jason the low on the publisher and co-owner of lee and low books. please join in welcoming these wonderful voices please join me in welcoming them into the stand. okay. here we go. first i want to thank penn for

having us all out here to talk about these important issues. with the american library association and the office of intellectual freedom they have deemed that more than half of all challenged books are diverse books. it was really will put by author melinda lowe that has written a lot of articles on the web. she states that diverse books have to do with lgbt characters disabled characters

and focus on issues of race, religion and non- western settings. what i have just defined for you is all of the books that liam lowe publishes as well as all of the books that these authors have published as well. alright so. all right so. we will start with some questions let's talk about the cover of two boys kissing which we should be able to see right behind me. the image is a little interpretation of what the book is about and has the same time has led to numerous book challenges because as we all know many books that are challenged are by people who have never read the book. so, tell us briefly about the book and what kind of

statement you are trying to make with the cover? also, where you prepared for the pushback it would receive in terms of challenges the book is about many things is based on a true story and they make the records for the continuous kiss. they don't have much of a narc. there are other boys around who also have storylines. book was also titled two boys kissing so is pretty much guaranteed by guaranteed that we would show two boys kissing on the cover. and that is exactly what random house did. basically having the kiss on

the cover made it easier for it to be criticized. we still would've had challenges. the top five books also had clear content. definitely a trend that goes beyond that. i knew very much titling that book that way. would certainly make it vulnerable to attack and challenge both actual and preemptive.

or just to ignore that identity completely. that is all the more reason to write about them. books like this i mean no. we were very much in the infancy of clear why a when i was a young adult. we had books like that. it did not really happen until the last decade. is now about getting as many

clear voices out there. did you ever occur to you that you could one day do what you're doing now, like back then? certainly the path that it took was not what i would have expected. it is a little bit of a step for babysitters club to two boys kissing. the reason people loved it was because it granted all of the characters humanity and it was a ferried to tell the truth to kids. when it came to telling my own truth it made absolute sense to write why a. what are you going to be sitting in this amazing room.

twenty-five years later. what will you be talking about. this probably would not had been my top guest. at the same time it does feel very natural. i was lucky to be a part of the wave of authors who all decided to write about our own identities. you have to be clear to write great clear characters. while this pnr is about banned books this is a practice known as soft censorship. to define that. it is like banning books on the down low. it is really about when books are deemed inappropriate before an actual challenge actually occurs. it means that it actually

never gets a library shelf or a classroom. to talk about what you write about. in the characters and settings that you depict in your books reflect your background. you will see this right behind me. and then make sure you tell us what your reaction would be to a two at suburban school library that comes from a predominantly white student body. i had head that specific thing said to me. i wasn't a suburb. and the teacher came up to me

and said she literally said this. we only had two ethnic students in our school. and the other things are totally devoid. they were not ethnic. you are only going to teach them books about things you already know. you won't teach them anything else. forget about that for a second. a little bit about my book. it is a story of a 15-year-old boy in the bronx and it's about a week in his life. he and his mom and his little brother are homeless. it's just him trying to figure out away to get his family out of the shelter that they are in. it's really disgusting and gross. it is written in sort of a

slang of the bronx. it does have curse words. god for bid. and so, i forgot what the question was. i think i get more thoughts about censorship than actual censorship. the whole thing of our students won't relate to this. this is for inner-city kids. it's not for us. or they have it in the library or in the school library and the literally tried to book out every february for black history month. you can't check it in. as part of the artwork. and then february 29 they put that sucker wife and is just not available.

or another thing i get a lot is that it is in the library but it's never shall with the other books. it's like segregated to a shelf back in the library called like urban lit or street lit. anyway, it is in the back it's kinda like we have but we don't really had it because it's not mixed in with all the other books. that's where my books are. it's very frustrating i never see my books mixed in on the shelf when it's like beach reads. tyrone falls in love. it's just so frustrating that it's so segregated and so removed from people just stumbling upon and finding it by accident almost. in checking it out. what you're talking about really is you know the segregation that segregation you are saying it's kind of

hidden away that cuts down on the discoverability of the book itself and no one is really going to be able to pick this book up because you can't really be able to reach it. you have to deliberately be looking for this book to find it. have you had people who weren't black that read this book and related to this. of course. i get a lot of letters from kids who tell me they related to it. and most of it is because they're thinking of what the story is actually about not just who is about. they can relate to it at different levels and just being a black kid from the bronx. kids are able to do that more than adults think they will be able to be. what he we thick adults are afraid of.

i really can't tell you. i think they are letting in to their home or their community something that is a little scary they feel like it's the inner city. i don't know i want my kid to know about that. they know exactly what it is. it's just a fear we moved to the suburbs for a reason. and we really don't want that type of look around our kid. they are not thinking is a story about a little boy he was who is trying to help his family. they are just seen the setting in maybe the language he uses and it's been offputting. that's the thing like you say. is not about the black experience is social economic things happening.

and maybe single parenthood. there is a whole list of things i could cross over. it's important to say that it's okay if it is about that. when i was growing up i was an entirely black and latino community and we read great gatsby and catcher in the ride. -- we read those books. but why is it not the other way around. why can't entire white community why can't they read something that is foreign to them as the great gatsby was to my neighborhood. all right. ariel. i have not forgotten about you over there. it is stuck in the middle. it has been challenged so a challenge usually entails with

the recommended reading list or from required reading. tell us a bit about the anthology in the middle. and some of the larger implications related to book challenges and also tell us how you successfully defend a book so i think stuck in the middle it is an anthology of comments about middle school. by 17 cartoonist. those books are not tame. they are both published for

adults. they have never been challenged. stuck in the middle however is marketed as a why a book. and so it has come under this kind of scrutiny but there is really nothing that bad in it. there is maybe a reference to teenagers thinking about engaging in sexual activity. it is really not that bad. because it is a comic book this is why it has come under these challenges. on the sort of what the issue is that parents sort of open opened it up and they see the word bi tch and they see it

written in big cartoony letters. they seek teenagers talking about sexual activities in the big speech balloons. and in immediately say that is bad i don't like that. they would have to actually read it to find what they don't like. i think their kids bring home the comment. and immediately decide. not specifically for its content. and in terms of successfully defending it we have actually always have the comic book legal defense fund. it is amazing because they specialize in comics being unfairly targeted because

images can be considered pornographic. in the way that prozac can't. the people there had always been really great. it has been challenged in many school libraries. i think they have managed to keep it on the shelves for some of them. has it ever been a reader activism happening of people speaking on behalf of your book. and things like that. honestly people don't feel that passionately about it because it's not a big deal. it has not been the sort of thing where people are like i want to fight for that youth

of the word. we've been talking about diverse books. it's not very a diverse book. everett write write a lot about clear characters. it is not that scandalous. in 2015 the actual statistics could be two to three times higher and the reason for that. if they receive a complaint about a book.

it sidesteps in the protocol the reason i mention all this is because the intolerance of diversity in general. seems to be on the rise. for the kinds of books that you all do. so as an author do you feel a greater responsibility to represent the algae bt community by publishing new books and defending past ones russian mark russian mark when it be funny if the answer was no. of course you do. i think for the authors is a very hard position to be in. the worst thing you can say to an author who is on the books list.

it might technically be true. is very strange. 95 percent of the time it's ends up being okay. and the the defenders defend it effectively. but it's still a very fraught process. i have never met an author's book was banned or challenged to then wanted to back away. it doesn't need you to only push harder. to tell the truth. there are so many librarians and teachers and parents. they are trusting me.

to represent whatever identity i want to represent. they're part of the bargain is because i can't be in every school. a lot of the times the challenge does not come through. or not order books that have a black black kids on the cover. if you have to fight that. the goal is to silence you.

and the result of the challenge is always to energize you into make you want to speak louder. back to you. i read that you have worked in child protective services in social work before he became an author. i was just wondering to me parents seem to have little control or influence over the other forms of entertainment that they are consuming on a regular basis. i was sort of thinking like why do people white do people still challenge books. why are books singled out. over other entertainment mediums. is there any kind of psychology to any of this. do you know. i think parents understand books. i don't think they know what their kids are looking at their phones.

what is the snapshot. you take the book to bed with you. you read it. it gets in your system in a different way. the disc scrolling on your phone or online. your member them forever. .. ..

they want to be a part of that tradition not realizing again that almost all of the time people do defend the books and, again, in specifically when it comes to issues of identity whether it's clear identity or another, it's much easier for them to try to attack a book than try to attack people in the school itself and so they will try to -- if they don't want gay things talked about, they will not talk about in terms of students because people would be outraged but attacking a book as a symbol of those students, then they feel that's more acceptable and the good news is that it's not. >> i think there's also an idea that books are supposed to be like for learning, they are supposed to be in the school to learn facts and, i think, most of people that challenge a books, don't read fiction so they don't know that reads are crazy, you know, provers things that touch you and speak to

reality of inner life and when they discover these books or target them because they have things they don't like, they don't realize that most other books are also that intense and they just think that this is not what their kid at school should be doing at all. >> it's also like when they read books, they only read books online review or whatever those sites that are pull out the elements of the book -- did they turn my mic off? is it on? they look at the elements and go, oh, well, this book has profanity, has sex and this, they find the little things to latch onto that's a negative in their mind and they don't see the book as a whole thing as like you were saying, arial, there's a connection that people make to a character and that they feel empathy for people and there's things that you can learn and may not be facts and figures, but you learn how to

connect and how to see another person's life and walk in their shoes, they don't see that part. there's, oral, reduces the book down to just basic things that are -- make it so cheapens the whole experience to me. >> so ariel, so looking back at challenges you face as well as looking forward to the books that you'll create, more challenges on the horizon for you and your books, i mean, would you ever be tempted to self-sensor your books for the sake of avoiding future challenges? >> no. [laughter] >> i mean, yeah, no. why would you do that? i mean, i guess -- i mean, i don't generally -- this is the

only ya book i published, if i were to write another ya book, i would have that in mind. i don't know that -- if it would stop me. i mean, it's possible, i guess, that i could leave something out if an editor or publisher told me that they thought it would not get the book into libraries and didn't feel worth it to me, maybe, but i think i would need somebody else to come to me and say, let's talk about this. i don't think in my own creative process i would leave stuff out because that's the depth of our -- >> okay, so last one here is for everyone. feel free to jump in. so writing diverse books obviously comes with its own set of challenges, not only do you have to be a good writer who writes a compelling story

themselves but you actually have to respond to responsibility of shouldering a cause, accurately representing marginalized voices, defending books is hard work for a lot of people, there's a lot of people involved in organizations, librarians, individuals, readers, i mean, there's a lot of pitching in, the authors themselves. i mean -- and the time that you're defending books when you're sitting here on a monday night take asway from the time that you could be writing, but, what keeps you going, what keeps you hopeful in terms of not only writing but actually being an activist for your work? >> that's your question. [laughter] >> gentlemen first. >> that question was one of those blue book exams, part one.

i mean -- [laughter] >> i think that, again, i think -- i mean, there are two different questions here in that -- in that i think you should be defending anything that you've written whatever your identity is and whatever your viewpoint is but specifically when your book is being attacked for the thing that you are, that certainly gives it a different element. it's not when rallying is censored for the witchcraft and harry potter, i imagine she doesn't take that personally as a wizard and witch whereas when i or alex or jazz jennings books are censored because they have clear context or even not writing about own sexuality, she has two boys kissing in drama,

it's a mantle of the people you love and mean a lot to you being attacked through your book being attacked. and so you have to take on that burden. i don't know that it's -- it's a mixture of activism and self-defense quite honestly in a world where i don't know -- there might be hostility nowadays to -- identities, but, again, i think that the great thing is that for me that i at least have gotten my story out in 200 pages is what i'm defending, i'm not just defending 140 characters and we can thoughtfully con seually -- context ually give and gets to be conversation point and i would happily engage in conversation because i'm not

just talking about what my books are about but i'm talking about who i am. that's an almost at work. >> what he said. [laughter] >> sometimes it guests exhausting trying to defend a book when the only thing that it's criticized for is who i am, being a black person living in inner city, growing up -- growing up in inner city, those are the things that people are afraid of and it's just like, really, you're afraid of me almost. so, yeah, it just gets so tiring, i wish i could write a book or criticized or not based on the content or the -- what the book is about or not who it's about, it gets frustrating after a while.

>> yeah, i mean, we do diverse books obviously and i find, you know, similar experiences in that you're always having to have the conversation over and over again and like david said, you're happy to do it because that's what you have to do, but, yeah, you get tired. you do. >> to the hopeful part. you asked for hopeful. >> i did. >> the great thing is that the frustrating ago on newsing -- agonizing conversation that is you're having are are 9% with adults. when you're actually talking to the actual teens who are reading the book, they get it, they are fine wit, they want to read different voices, they are not merely as full of barriers and borders as people who are protecting them with quotes around it.

we are talking about things to your earlier point, i would not have thought that i would be in a school gymnasium. that did not -- but -- sometimes you could see the administrators, okay, i don't know. that gives me hope. when you are actually with the student who see characters in terms of kids who are around them and in their world on facebook, then suddenly it's not as scandalous to them and certainly things like language are not scandalous to them. so i think that over time things improve. >> slowly. [laughter]

>> there has been a lot of progress, surely there has been in terms of what you're talking about and you can see that from just, you know, you could never pictured yourself doing this, what you're doing now and that's progress. we have to remember that's the hopeful part of this talk tonight. and i think that's all the time we have for this part of the conversation, but we are going to go into q&a now, correct? okay. >> sorry, guys, if you have a question please raise your hand and we will bring the microphone to you and turn it down so this doesn't keep happening. okay, please raise your hand, stand up, say your name if you feel comfortable and ask away. >> first question of the night. here we go.

[inaudible conversations] >> hi, guys, my name is peter, and this is a comment question directed towards cole, during the first portion of when you spoke, you talked about young readers not seeing differences and i'm going to digress very briefly, in alcoholics anonymous sounds unrelated, you come in and you look at the range of people in the room and you go, i'm not like that and somebody with some wisdom and perspective says, listen for the feeling, when you pinch your arm and you

heard i know what it's like to feel the same thing, how do you think those kids came to that realization because i'm not sure that modeled or taught, and i think it's very important? >> i don't -- i think the kids today are open to it. i don't think they necessarily see -- they don't see the divisions that we put in front of them. like i was saying with the music and the hip-hop killture and things like that, they are open to that already, so getting a hold of a book is not a big adjustment. they are kind of interested in it. i think the adults are the ones who say, maybe that's not the book for you, they put it in the back or they -- you know, they just don't think they are going to relate and i don't think the kids see that at all, they are

open to it. i don't know how to explain. as they read, sometimes it sounds -- when i get letters from kids, it almost sounds like they are surprised, you know, i'm a kid, white kid in the suburbs and i found your book, you know, he andriy the same in this way, you know, my dad is, you know, not around, he's messed up or they find the connection and sometimes it does kind of sound like, you know, this was not what they thought -- they didn't think they would find themselves in it and they were able to so that's very nice. yeah. thank you. >> at the present. the people at front with questions. >> hello, my name is jason, i'm from the bronx just like you are, fantastic. the idea of ban books is something we all grew up with i

believe coming to totallitarian regimes, when you get opposition, schools like that, elaborate or is it one person, is it a committee, is it a school school super dependent because if -- super tp >> track bid the american library association are as a result of complaint, there's a form procedure, it's a parent who file it is complaint with the school or with the public library and then it becomes an issue and certainly sometimes it is usually the one parent alone who is the one who is attacking the book and there's not a

ground swell but sometimes not, sometimes the community divides and many people on the side of the challenger as well as the defenders and you never know sort of what you're going to get until then, but certainly for most schools it takes only one person to file the complaint and much to the extreme, extreme annoyance from the librarians and teachers who have to defend, it is not prerequisite that the person has to read the book in order to challenge the book, they can challenge the book just because of what it is, what they read on the back cover copy, that they read an article on a website, right, or the front cover that there's no -- there's no requirement for when logic complaint. there's more stringent requirements for some communities for when you're going through the formal process. >> i had to challenge in summer

in virginia, a parent challenged my book, eleanor -- why is my brain -- rainbow book, all they of those books were on a school reading list and she challenged it and there was this one parent who said, this should not be in the summer reading list and then the state senator jumped in and said these were books that were quote, unquote pornographic, i don't think that anybody read anything and they had the whole big thing and it was the newspapers and then i guess they had a meeting or something and eventually it was not successful, the challenge, it was like -- it was a summer reading list that was used by not just that community but lots of schools in -- whatever. anyway, it wasn't -- it wasn't successful but it was so weird, it was one parent that didn't like the books.

>> what books do you -- do you recommend and why? what's your favorite band book besides your own? >> my own. [laughter] >> i really like the absolutely true dairy of a part time indian. did i steal yours? >> yeah. >> everything about the character warms the heart. such an honest voice and nails all the insecurity of the being a teen and the story is so heart-breaking and hopeful and i love everything about the book. >> i will go with feed, it's deliberate and show total character who is forced to use it. so it's just the irony of the fact that that anderson doesn't

use it at all, it is used so meaningfulfully and still people are freaked out by it. i think that's -- it's sad, again, it's usually defended by introducing context, but it's an amazing, amazing book. >> well, i have a new-born son so i'm going to go with and tango mix three, the book about male penguins raising baby penguin in central park zoo. anything that start children from as young as possible knowing that there's all sorts of families and et cetera and the fact that people want to challenge that is just incredibly sad. >> i mean, i will just throw in, i'm happy to be reading beloved by tony morrison right now and

it really should be read by everyone. i mean, just in terms of the -- how this book is sort of unfolding very, very slowly and then what happens and what you find out is just -- it's just so gut-wrenching that it would be ashamed not to be exposed to that and i think it's a must, must read really, yeah. >> hi, guys, my name is sam and i wonder -- i want to get your thoughts on something, i grew up reading at a very young age, i read everything, but i found, you know that the books that were fine to read in school were boring compared to the things that you actually want to read at home and i remember there was a huge shift that happened a few years ago when i found out they were studying speak in school, wait, what, you guys are starting to read cool books but

i guess maybe not, not fully yet because you ran through a list, all of those are ban, i wonder if the diversity thing is interesting that i never thought of before but i wonder if there's ignorance, not having a clue what your kids are going through and not having a clue that the books will be helpful for your kids growing up and if you have any thoughts around the idea, just like fear, ignorance around the needs of what -- i grew up reading but maybe you would have gotten more kids to read if you give them books that they wanted to and that they felt related to their content, you know. >> i remember, i feel your statement about ignorance hits the nose -- the nail on the head, really, because a lot of rhetoric that you're hearing nowadays is complete ignorance about other people, about culture, about things that are

pretty much no-brainers and problem for a lot of people. if you were to grow up reading diverse books, you would have the mirror window of sliding fast door, those things and i really truly believe that it would change you as a person, you would not be the same person after you read these books, about what you were saying that books get in deep and i think it would be hard to sort of shape that off. >> i think a lot of time people -- they just want what they know, you know, they are not open to new things, they want to teach the -- they want their kids to read the same books they read, they are not open to new things and it's like, it's like they are afraid, it's fear, it's like letting in something new, i don't want my kids reading the new type of books and they're

diverse and lgb -- that's scary to them. i think that hopefully the kids are more open, but, yeah, we never read anything good in this school either when i was growing up. it's really boring and i like to read when i was, you know, middle school and high school but i never read anything that was assigned. i hated all those books and now the kids are reading -- in a lot of places they are reading way better books. >> i was going to add that i think there are so -- we have to acknowledge there are so many teachers in my branch who would love to teach newer books, there are some that are ignorant to them but others it's purely money or it is that the state's mandates which -- town mandates which books they can teach. both in terms of how out with

the old and in with the new and making sure that many voices are represented. but i think as of many things it comes to money and bureaucracy more than anything else. >> yeah. >> hi, lisa, i'm from austria europe and i decided to exchange here in a university in jersey and i was shocked that there are books banned in the u.s., i couldn't believe it and so my question might be kind of bit -- see an end to the ban stuff? it's not in europe, we don't have it. [inaudible] >> in terms of books that kids are allowed to read, we can read everything we want. [laughter] ris. >> will won't be no change at least in the three and a half years, no change.

>> i think -- this will sound really strange and certainly i'm not -- i don't have evidence to this but i think the interesting thing about our censorship is it is so out in the open and there are procedures and there are challenges and there are battles. i think that -- that in other cultures and other countries, i think it is hard the other get published. it is harder the pulling mechanisms of the elite. i certainly know that it's harder in many other countries to get queer voices published specially for children or ya, it's sort of -- we are ahead of the curve in getting a lot of voices out there but we are also ahead of the the of having resistance to the voices, so they sort of go hand and hand, to your point, the culture of it is certainly unique to us in that we do talk about that we have the ban books week that i've certainly traveled to other

countries where they're always very surprised that we have a top 10 ranking of ban books and things like that, very unscientific untop scientific i may add but, again, i think -- i don't mind it because i think it is -- we know about it because we are engaged in fighting it and that most -- ban books week isn't proclaimed by the forces that are trying to ban the books, ban booked proclaimed by the people who are defending them and we are making noise and pointing it out because we don't want it to be happening silently and we don't want people to get away with it, instead we very loudly make it an issue, firstly, because we believed in freedom of speech and we believe that there should be a freedom to read but also because we know that our piece of the battle is just a metaphor for the much, much larger battle for ideas and we call it to question because we want attention to be paid to

itso in a way that i don't know that other countries necessarily want it. so i think it's complicated, but certainly our culture around issues of censorship is very unique for us for sure. >> have your books been translated into other languages? >> they have, but it is much harder for the queer ones to -- to get -- in some countries. again, how they treat queer people in their culture definitely is reflected by how they treat queer literature in literature. >> have two boying been translated -- >> at least the constant of the cover has stayed which is good. >> yeah. >> ly add to that like in no other time in human history has

the voice of the individual been empowered the way it is for better and worse, so i think that, you know, these things are in the open, there is protocol, you know, when a book is challenged. i think it's purposely made hard to challenge it because really you can make a decision for your kid but that doesn't mean you have a right of a decision for everybody's kid. they make it hard for a reason to ban books and that's why you're saying that many of the challenges actually fail. but then also, you know, as i was saying individual voices are more powerful and goes both ways like, i think, that everybody, you know, if they see something they have to say something, they can't let it slide because it's a slippery slope once you do, once you decide that it's not worth fighting for this book, maybe it's not worth fighting for that book and that book and that book. so we are living in an

interesting time, yeah. [laughter] >> hi. i'm john. in a similar ban to of the quesn just asked, people are waking up to paradox of free speech, it impedes upon the freedom of people to express themselves. 54% of millennials think that not all free speech is protected and this is massive fear of that specially with the right, i'm wondering as people who have been marginalized, if you're sort of, you know, muscle memory american reaction of, you know, freedom of speech, freedom of speech ever come into contrast with who you are as a person and whether you ever struggle with the issues of that?

>> i mean, i think that is the paradox that you -- if you're in it for yourself you better be it in for ann coulter too and if you have to -- if you believe in freedom of speech you believe in the freedom of speech and the freedom of speech includes the people who are saying the hateful things about you but i think you are. now, do i believe that every major publisher should give millions of dollars to people who spew hate, no, i don't. i don't think freedom of speech means you get a lot of money for it or that you get a lot of publishing, marketing behind it. do i believe that everybody has the right to say what they want and every book has the right to be published by somebody, yes, i do. again, i believe that you can't -- you can't cherry-pick when it comes to freedom of speech even if that means that you have to defend things that are extraordinarily loathsome to you

that's the bedrock of what we are talking about. you have to fight free speech with free speech, you have to be louder and call them on it rather than letting it slide. >> the solution is always more speech. >> hi, my name is sandra wild. i have a question of authenticity. i wonder if authenticity of diverse books -- if authenticity can make the books more likely to be challenged like maybe people think, oh, you know, the stories are too rough.

a lot of times they say that i don't like that i use the n word in my book. even though it is always used as a synonym for die or dude. they can't teach it because they are uncomfortable with that word even though they know their students would be able to relate to the book. it's too much.

this part is you can't do it. i do think that is something. questions on the other side here. we talked about how they had censored the books. have you ever been censored at a per earlier stage. that will be less palatable to everyone. that you have to fight at that stage of the process. it seems so idiotic to me.

we know what the word is. it looked terrible that really upset me. it upsets me now is that we did it. it is still getting challenged all over the place. i would've rather to set it. when i was writing time while -- tyrell. remember you said do you think anything is can be a problem. write the book. and then we will talk later. and so i wrote it like freely i'm just gonna tell the story i want to tell. i kept waiting for that chance to talk. cannot think of anybody outside of just tell the story

that he needs to be told and not worry about any of that. i try to carry that forward. i'm not in the leave the room and she's in a tie the truth. i've been very lucky with random house that if anything they encouraged me to do whatever i wanted. trust me that i would not do things that is for the sake of that that everything has to be organic to the story. if that is the case one of the exciting things about that with why is you are giving context. not through the lens of entertainment. i think that frees you to come

up with some things i did not think that i was gonna go there. i remember when i was in my msa program at that new school one of the teachers read my work and said is pretty much the only time somebody was worried if it would fit in. is it always the internal bureaucratic process. you ever had to go to court rely on some other process to

fight for your books. to my knowledge is its almost entirely through the official process. so whether it is through the library system or through the school system again almost every school in the library has a problem. and sometimes politicians get involved. you do have legislative attempts which are in my mind hysterical. in oklahoma a few years ago there was a legislator who proposed to build from the shelves of all public library schools. in any book ahead any mention of homosexuality. it would reduce the collection significantly. it did not pass. if the official process

upholds the book. there would be attempts and not lost it. legislative attempts to disenfranchise people or to create a lot to get books off of shelves. i get most of the time the mass majority of the time those efforts fail. wasn't there an attempt to get rid of all the books with mexican or mexican-american books. it was unbelievable. they do not want that. they felt like that was getting into the politics of immigration and they didn't want kids to learn about any of that. i don't know if everybody heard that. it was to and a mexican studies program that the court overturned it.

and the program is back. i know they get rid of even novels. his books were swept up in that. they did not want any of his books got for bed it was the craziest thing. we had time for one final question. i am translating a question for my 12-year-old. he is too shy to ask the question. the question is is there a relationship between b and books and pop culture. his point is that his kids are sharing on a lot of ideas. the parents are maybe not understanding that. therefore the books are getting banned. the pulp -- the pop culture is allowed but the books are getting banned. and also maybe the pop culture is connected to the books in some way.

i think that's a very good question. i think the parents see that. they do understand books. i feel the parents pain. then understand what the kids are looking at these days or plane. and not to be armchair therapist here but i am in an armchair. to state the obvious. the book challenges are about control. there are about a parent who is trying to control the environment in the world that the child lives in and impose a certain set of values upon

the child or the children around them. not just for their own child but for everybody. and oftentimes it is the only thing that they can attack in a localized sense. they cannot challenge facebook about the identity dropbox that they have. they cannot challenge the radio to get the songs played. they cannot challenge the local movie theater even though they do protest that. by and large those things are out of their control. something that is within their control is the books in their child's school or in the public library. there is the procedure to attack those and they will be listened to in a way that they will not be listened to if they try to pull something down off of youtube as they don't like the fact that it is clear positive.

as the world is scarier to these parents and their feeling that they are not having the control that they want too. over the world that they live in. they think that books are the easy target the good news is that they do a spring up. the thing that they think is a defenseless object by penn there is the whole apparatus that they don't know and they think they have the easy target. in fact it's not one. what an amazing launch to banned book week.

think -- stick around and find copies of the book. they are available at the registers. they are taking advantage of it. thank you c-span. thank you all for coming. where history unfold daily. in 1979 c-span was created as a public service by america's cable television companies. book tv on c-span two. television for serious readers. the african-american

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