that we just needed to have a book festival in austin, texas, to celebrate texas authors and literacy. and to support our texas libraries. and since those early years, the book festival has just exploded and very quickly became a national, premier destination for the biggest books of the year. >> join booktv for the texas book festival live from austin saturday and sunday november 4th and 5th on crushes span 2. on c-span2. >> hi, guys. how's everybody doing today? good. welcome to kramerbooks. my name is rachel, just a reminder, please silence your cell phones. you're welcome to follow us on social media to stay up on our events. today we're here to talk about economics. don't worry, i'm not going to

give you guys a lecture. i'll leave you in the capable happened of our -- in the hands of our capable author instead. in his new book, "americana," we go through a 400-year-long journey of capitalism highlighting some of our industries' most important inventions from. the arrival of the mayflower to the inner workings of the mafia, he presents an exhilarating and eye-opening perspective of an american history of capitalism that i'm sure he's very excited to share with you all today. mr. srinavasan is an accomplished entrepreneur spanning pop culture, social media, and content. as a child he lived in the south, the rust belt, southern california and the pacific northwest. his book is available for sale in the bookstore, and he'll be up here afterwards for a book signing so, please, help me

welcome mr. srinavasan, everyone. [applause] >> thanks, everyone, for having me, and this is only my second-ever book event, so i am very glad that you guys took a big chance on coming out and hopefully, based on how this goes, i'll get to do other events or never again. so -- [laughter] hope you guys are a good audience. as rachel had points out, i came to this country at the age of 8. my mother was a, had a ph.d. in physic, and she had gotten a role at roswell park memorial institute in buffalo, new york. she had gotten a post-doctorate position there, and she was going to meant this i stupendous sum of $14,000 which meant in india that we were going to be very, very rich when we arrived in america. after my mother had done six months, she came back and got us. i went off to live with my aunt,

and not too far from here i attended school in richmond, virginia, for a few months, then buffalo, new york, then on to california and the northwest. and my own, my own journey in america in many ways mirrored the american journey. and i didn't quite understand how much it mirrored it until i was fortunate enough to take a freshman history class from richard white, the acclaimed historian at the university of washington who's now at stanford. and in his class, the final essay was to weave and connect your family's history into the context of the american narrative. and since i was taking this class in 1995 and i'd been here for a total of 10 years, 11 years from '84 to '95, i didn't quite have a device through which i could weave a narrative because we'd had such a short amount of time there. so the major event in american history, i had to ask him what can we do to allow me to fully

express myself in the context of american history, and we had stumbled upon this device of economic themes. so, you know, the rust belt in buffalo, new york, my family's westward migration, my mother ended up with a position at a biotech start-up in seattle, seattle itself was booming with technology, microsoft at that time was a very large company. still is now, but certainly at that time it had a very scorching growth rate. so we're connecting all of that over an 11-year period into this essay. it gave me a perspective on american history that i didn't have before, and i got this directly from a very notable historian, and it served me well. going forward, however, in the gold rush of the internet was this hugely alluring thing in seattle and san francisco at that time, and i had been lucky enough to participate in this gold rush at least as a, as an early employee at a couple of companies and then as a founder

of a venture-backed start-up in news aggregation. so it's colored my perspective of these next big things are, basically, you can transform society very rapidly. so just as a, to a hammer everything looks like a nail, to me, these economic questions have always driven me to assemble everything that i know about american history and put it into this framework. so about ten years after that, i started thinking about every biography i would read, every history i would read would somewhat evade these economic questions which i think are so central to the american experience. and, in fact, if you think about mexican immigrants that come to this country, many of them undocumented, an undocumented immigrant, obviously, is leaving the privileges and rights of citizenship in mexico to come to this country to live a stateless -- to live as stateless, non-citizens. why would somebody come here to live as stateless, non-citizens?

obviously, they're leaving democratic privileges in mexico behind. so what is that motivation? you can look at it and say, well, it might be the allure of some form of american capitalism, even for the underclass, these dividends. it's some allure for perspective that they might have some access to prosperity, and prosperity's a relative thing. somebody might have -- somebody might think a new change of clothes, fresh t-shirts and being able to buy whatever clothes you want is prosperity, others might think access to air-conditioning or a new television is prosperity, someone else might be denied the ability to buy a car which is, obviously, a big luxury item in the entire third world as it certainly was in india at that time and still is for hundreds of millions of people. all those things represent prosperity, and i still believe that the ease with which you can access this prosperity is the primary allure for millions and millions of immigrants that have come here. so tracing back from that, i

wanted to look at if the prosperity was the motivation for my own family and for other immigrants that come here and that if, indeed, i can make that case, how did, how far does that go back? obviously, for the irish that certainly was the case to some degree, the eyal -- italians it was the case, lithuanians, germans. then i tried to trace it all the way back to the mayflower, and the mayflower gave rise the a question that, you know, to some degree really struck me. i wonders how was it in 1620 that persecuted religious separatists would be able to afford a giant ship? how would they be able to afford to charter one? if i were to tell you that a hundred people in central america chartered a 737, you would think how could that possibly happen, you know? that's a strange set of circumstances. so then you start weaving in and ask questions about how the mayflower actually was financed, and you start going through a

great primary document, william bradford's plymouth plantation. and in it much of it documents the financing of the mayflower, how they sold shares to a group called the merchant adventurers, how the pilgrims themselves had shares, how it was a seven-year term, how there were provisions where the pilgrims would spend four days on the collective venture, two days on the, two days for themselves, one day for god and then how those terms changed to six days for the collective venture and one day for god and how that was a sticking point when they were about to embark on this voyage. so you start looking at economic motivations throughout, and you start questioning how that financing happened, what happened at the end of that transaction? it took 25 years for that transaction to unwind itself. and from there i started assembling a series of next big things. when did steel have a very big impact on society? what happened with oil? what happened with automobiles? with food?

with the meatpackers in chicago? and all these disparate events and biographies and trends, i started putting it into a mosaic. and, ultimately, it came together where i thought the 400 years of american capitalism, you can start using this backdrop of next big thing where you can have something like the internet browser leading, ultimately, to the smartphone. obviously, you weren't have a smartphone if people weren't used to an internet browser. that was the thing it solved. so and the internet browser created great demand for the computer, because even the '80s pcs weren't in the majority of households. pc growth, computer growth in the household really took off with the internet. so these next big things compound, and that's the connective tissue that i tried to identify in this book. and many times these connective tissues aren't separate threads altogether, but they're obviously deeply interwoven with

politics. and i just wanted the a couple of examples today of deeper threads where several next big things are so connected where you might not necessarily think of them as connected. one is the gold rush. now, the gold rush starts with, to some degree, happening during the tail end of the mexican-american war, you know? 1848 when in the final days of the, in the final days of mexico actually owning that territory, bays before its official surrender, someone finds, discovers a saw mill worker in a river in california discovers that there are gold flakes on the ground. and so this is obviously a serendipitous discovery, you know? it doesn't take great skill or culture to find gold, but they did. and it's this great, lucky find that at the tail end, the end of manifest destiny where the united states comes into possession of california almost at that exact time almost as if it's providential, it finds gold. almost instantaneously, the

californians, obviously, the rush happens, and then the californians immediately are clamoring for statehood. and because california's in possession of vast wealth, it accelerates that process. so by 1850 the californians want to present themselves and become the 31st state of the union. well, at this time there are 15 slave states and 15 free states. and it's the one marker of legislative balance that the southerners are still able to hold on to because in terms of representatives, the free states have vastly more representatives in the house, but in the senate they have 30 senators, and the free states have 30 senators. so that would change that balance and that equation very dramatically. so you have the compromise of 1850 which is triggered by california wanting to get admission, and one of that has the fugitive slave act which is the enforcement of the fugitive slave clause from the constitution. and that sets up -- off the idea behind the fugitive slaves act is that it has to enforce this

constitutional provision that if a slave ventures into a state in the north, that they can summon local magistrates in the north to return that slave back to the south. and that is something that harriet beecher stowe finds so odious, she starts writing "uncle tom's cabin," and it gets serialized and captures the imagination of a lot of abolitionist sentiment and is able to use a fictional story to humanize the slave experience. and throughout the 1850s, that starts becoming a major dividing point, and you start seeing after dred scott decision in 1857, you see that slave prices actually went up. so there was quite a bubble in slave prices where at auctions you would have the, what they would call a prime fieldhand, somebody that's maybe in their 20s, strong, has no history of running away because that's the seller representation you'd need to make if a slave had ever run

away. and so you see the average price of slaves throughout between $700, $800 on the whole of all four million slaves. so you have the value of $3 billion to $4 billion for all of the slaves in america, four million or so. and so to some degree in my book i note that this is an irrational valuation because it's, it was -- a lot of credit was there. to purchase a slave, you could use a lot of collateral, borrow two-thirds of the value. so much of the sentiment was base on a valuation of slaves that was decoupled from the price of cotton which many historians -- walter johnson, sven beckert -- they go into. so connect the gold rush with slavery and some of the sentiments that precipitated this overconfidence on the part of the south, triggering a

humanizing novel from harriet beecher stowe, those are the types of connections that i try to we're in throughout the book where it's not just a celebration of capitalism or great biographies, but synthesizes the democratic forces that clashed with markets many times throughout more than history. american history. and so that you'll find later on as well. a strong theme is the rise of william jennings bryant's candidacy in 1896, and it's against the backdrop again of business interests in this country being very pro-tariff. so at that time you didn't have the income tax, and because you didn't have the income tax, the federal government was financed by either the tariff or liquor and tobacco taxes. you know, both fermented and distilled spirits. so because of that reliance on the tariff, business interests often had a friend in the federal government where they could protect industries, and to

protect an industry you instituted a tariff. the higher the tariff, the more money the federal government is able to collect. at the same time, the industry in the united states that would find overseas competitors to take market share in america is protected. so and that's, you know, one of the men that gave voice -- this was andrew carnegie in his autobiography talks about how the steel tariffs were instrumental for developing the steel industry in the united states. so until the income tax was made constitutional by the 16th amendment, you had this reliance on tariffs where businesses often times -- even if the federal government didn't quite need it -- were very pro-tariff. and when, once the income tax became instituted, that's when you could both have prohibition, because the federal government was no longer reliant upon income taxes, or reliant upon taxes from alcohol in both distilled and fermented spirits, and it wasn't reliant on the

tariff as well. so you see, start seeing these connections, and that's how the story came together throughout. so the next big thing from that point starts tracing to the automobiles, goes through suburbia, goes through roads and how roads gave way to fast food. there are lots of anecdotal examples, obviously, and biographies. but the main theme of the story is how democracy clashes with the interest of markets and how american capitalism is the synthesis of, you know, social, cultural, economic and democratic forces. so i wanted to open it up to questions and hope you guys have some good ones. >> how does the mafia tie in? >> you know, that's during prohibition. you know, so this is something that -- it's not a major theme in the book. i think that it's a smaller theme, but the mafia is one of

those things where it's unintended consequences, and you see lots of unintended consequences with policymakers. but one of those consequences was that you had right after prohibition you had a brand new business, because alcohol -- beer, especially, was the fifth largest business in the united d states. you know, some great fortunes were -- adolf fuss bush. you had these great big fortunes in alcohol, and all of a sudden right when it became legal, you had a brand new opportunity for all kinds of lawless men to be able to take advantage of a whole big market, very large consumer market. but it had other unintended consequences as well. grain prices, for instance, in california -- grape prices, for instance, in california boomed. you had the grape grower, because wine had a sacramental exception to it, and then you could also buy syrup and allow it to turn into wine in the home. so you had lots of different

economic opportunities and, certainly, that gave rise to organized crime. >> so after that, sounds -- [inaudible] how do you rate capitalism? i mean, do you go into the types of capitalism that the americans experimented with? and kid you find -- [inaudible] >> you know, in terms of rating capitalism, it's like rating democracy. how would you rate something like democracy or rate capitalism. that's one of the things that i discussed on npr earlier today, which is that it doesn't have a moral quality or immoral quality. it's a neutral construct, you know? it doesn't -- if you want to sell your kidney, you'd be able to. there's nothing in capitalism that intrinsically says no or says yes or encourages or discourages it. it's up to the society to, ultimately, imbue it with values. and that's always been the case throughout. just like when you're asking me how you rate capitalism, how would you rate democracy? for 80 years slavery was

tolerated, and another 100 years, integration was follow rated. so i think it's a neutral philosophy that you can have whatever values you want to, and it's up to your society to shape its force. i also brought up -- >> [inaudible] market capitalism, more liberal capitalism, do you go into the various -- >> i do. >> [inaudible] >> i do. and it's a constant evolution, and i think it's a constant evolution, for instance, one of the examples that i use is the rise of schools, you know? the rise of public schools. so if you go into, you know, even a staunch republican community in, let's say, texas or deep blue -- or a deep red state and you were to ask them what is the great thing about your community or your society, many times you'll hear that the thing that they love most and that they'll brag the most about is their great public schools. and here it is a social institution that they would take great pride in. it's one of the first things

that makes your community a community. they wouldn't say we have great fences and our neighbors can't get in. so that's one of those things that people don't necessarily identify as capitalism and democracy colliding, but it certainly is. and, you know, the person that argued for public education and universal education all the way back in 1848 was carl max. in the commune -- karl marx. in the communist manifesto he produces a 10-point plan for developing economies, industrial economies at that time to become more fair. and one of the things that he argues for is the abolition of child labor and institution of universal education. and, certainly, we have that. he also argued for progressive income taxes as a part of that 10-point plan. so even american capitalism certainly is a hybrid. it's not an extreme, it's not an extreme ideology. and what i try to do is i try to separate the ideological argument from it altogether and really think about it as an operating system rather than a,

in an ideology. >> out of curiosity, what was the final return on investment for the mayflower investors? >> they lost money. [laughter] yeah, yeah. so it took 25 years for the debt to finally be repaid. and it wasn't a debt, it was ec equity first because they were shareholders. after a few years, they realized they wanted to convert -- at the end of the seven-year term, they needed to do something with the equity because at that time you'd have to have a pro rata distribution of all the assets of plymouth. they didn't want to do that, so the equity got converted into debt, a transaction you see very often in private equity and other areas like that. and for a long time, that debt couldn't be repaid, couldn't be serviced by the fur-trading revenues. and ultimately, what happened was these group of men in plymouth, they called themselves the undertakers. and these undertakers assumed the debt from plymouth colony in

exchange for all of the fur-trading rights. and so these group of nine men absolved plymouth colony of the debt, and finally these nine men negotiated with their investors that had still held on and managed to hold on to the stake. by this time england also was in the throes of civil war, and so 1620-1645 was not an easy time in england easier. a lot of these men needed their money back and didn't make it, and a few descendants had, you know, still held on to this original investment. >> given our current political climate, how do you think capitalism will evolve from where it is now? where do you see it changing? >> welsh that's a very interesting -- well, that's a very interesting question. obviously, the fact that these rust belt states like michigan, wisconsin, ohio ended up being

the swing states where you would not have predicted they were going to go to trump or even become red, especially michigan. obviously tells you there's something in the air. especially to, you know, the lap northern argument for protectionism -- bannon argument for protectionism, that's something you wouldn't expect to see in republican dogma, but free trade is very much a big question as to what the republican platform will seek to do with free trade. because it's not clear cut at all that the swing states for them now are onboard with unlimited free trade. so i think that's going to have substantial implications for 2020 as well. any more questions? no. okay. i think we're a wrap. thank you so much. [applause]

>> here's a look at some books being published this week. msnbc's chris matthews explores the life of robert f. kennedy. in "all out war," edward kline offers his thoughts on forces that are working to delegitimize the trump presidency. georgetown university law professor peter edelman offers a critical examination of laws that impact economically-disadvantaged americans in "not a crime to be poor." also being published this week, dilbert comic strip creator scott adams with "win bigly." in the three lives of james madison, noah feldman weighs in on the legacy of the founding father. neuroscientist joseph --

provides a history of alzheimer's disease and reports on the medical research being conducted today in the hopes of finding a cure in "pursuit of memory." and pulitzer prize finalist stephen kotkin recalls the life of soviet leader josef stalin in the prelude to world war ii. look for these titles in bookstores this coming week and watch for many of the authors in the near future on booktv on c-span2. >> i was trying to figure out, you know, my life as an astronaut, life as an associate administrator for education, all these 24 years working with nasa that identity was gone, because i had retired from it. i'd moved from d.c., moved back home. and the reason i moved home was to be with my dad. and he's now gone. so i had to, you know, that was a, you know, moment of really trying to dig deep and understand, you know, the purpose and why i'm here. i've been told that mark twain has always said the two most important days of your life are

the day you were born and the day you figure out why. you know? why were we born? what is our purpose? and then i was told by my editor that when i had mark twain, they said mark train doesn't really say that. [laughter] so if you look in the book, there's no mark twain reference there. [laughter] but i still use mark twain because it sounds kind of cool, i think. [laughter] but, you know, figuring that why out. and as a society in this day and age with all the things that are going on, you know, all of us collectively figuring out why we're here to help impact the people that are here that are going to be the explorers that help, you know, change our planet for the positive. that's why i wrote this book. and it's, it's the jeanette, you know, you shared your story, it's the family, community not giving up, believing in me when i didn't believe in myself. and it's the journey of

s.t.e.a.m. education, science, technology, engineering, the arts and mathematics. i grew up living it every day with piano lessons and building bicycles and bread trucks and all these different things. and i think, you know, one of the things that's going to help us as a civilization is when we realize that we're really on this really small little blue marble together, technically working together as one civilization. granted, we don't always see this happening every day. but from the vantage point of the international space station, when i look out over virginia and i see my hometown from space, it's only 240 miles up, the distance from d.c. to new york. not that far really. going around the planet every 90 minutes, seeing a sunrise and a sunset every 45 minutes, doing this with people we used to fight against. i was there with the russians

and the germans. and having these moments where i'm flying over virginia, five minutes later we're over paris where one of my crew mates, he's looking down, hey, my mom's probably eating down there too. and in russia, you're there in a couple of minutes. it shows you how connected we are as a people. and then flying over afghanistan and looking down and seeing how beautiful it is but knowing what's happening down there, you know? aleppo, all these places of unrest and fighting and, you know, these things going on. but from that vantage point, it's simply stunning. and so i'm going to try to get you all signed up, you know, for a spacex mission -- [laughter] like, i've got some coupons up here, you know? [laughter] when i'm signing your books, you know, you might be the lucky one to get the spacex ride. but if you get an opportunity

and whether it's through v.r., whatever the experience you have to get to see this, it fundamentally, cognitively changes you as a person. it makes you want to do better when you see our planet there that vantage point. >> you can watch this and other programs online at booktv.org. you're watching booktv on c-span2 with knop nonfiction -- top nonfiction books and authors every weekend. booktv, television for serious readers. >> and this weekend on booktv's "after words" program, former "face the nation" host bob schieffer examines the impact of changing technology on journalism. we attend regnery publishing's 70th anniversary party in washington, d.c., and nbc news correspondent katie you are ther reflects on the 2016 presidential election.

also airing this weekend, microsoft ceo weighs in on the reinvention of microsoft. history professor taya miles examines the role that slavery played in the early history of detroit. success aced cadmy charter schools -- academy charter schools founder discusses her work, and susan gates talks about the problems that led to the collapse of freddie mac in 2008. that's all this weekend on booktv on c-span2. 48 hours of nonfiction authors and books. television for serious readers. ..