environmental disaster that hit london in 1952 while at the same time a serial killer was on the loose in the city in death in the air. then chris offers his advice on launching a profitable business, inside hustle followed by mark albans read all of the vietnam war, 1968. russian-american journalist mohsen gasson report on russians who came of age during the putin regime in the national book award nominated the future is history and fit is alan jacobson's book on restructuring your thought process on how to think. a group of best-selling books continues with best-selling biographer walter isaacson and leonardo da vinci then former first daughters jenna bush and barbara appears bush share their experiences growing up in the political spotlight in sister's first followed by mark manson's advice on leading a happier life. next, roger hodge, deputy director of the intercept

shares his family history of ranching in texas lock and wrapping up our book at the best-selling nonfiction books according to book people bookstore in austin is vacationland : a memoirist from humorist john hodgman. some of these authors will be appearing on book tv, watch them on our website, booktv.org. >>. [inaudible conversation] hi everyone. i think we're going to get started. how are you doing? everybody doing good? [applause] thank you. my name is lily philpott and i'm the public events coordinator. where so glad you joined us at the strand bookstore this evening both to celebrate banned books week and to help us launch our new series. this year banned books week run september 21 through the 30th and we are pleased to be celebrating the freedom to read and the three and

countable authors, david levithan, coe booth and ariel schrag. band out loud as a series presented in collaboration with the strand, the series provides us with a platform to amplify diverse voices and convene vital conversationson the way free expression affects writers and readers alike . next monday, october 2 we will be back on the second floor with daniel and lily who will speak about physical linguistics and creative border crossings and on november 20 we will welcome poet sam stax and gin and verbally for readings and an intimate writer to write our conversation on craft and finally on december 11, we are conducting a feminist retrospective of the year with morgan jerkins, carmen maria machado and lee who are

long listed for the national book award and they will consider women's roles at the forefront of the resistance looking back and forward. we hope you will join us for these events, they will be fantastic. the one in december will be here any other downstairs on the second floor. i want to take a moment to thank caitlin higgins and the rest of the amazing team who been so instrumental in pulling this series together and i want to thank steve sams, book tv for recording our event this evening. it's my pleasure to introduce nancy wyden who is the owner of the strand bookstore . [applause] >> thank you lily. i'm so happyto have you here and being surrounded by our rare books . for a little bit of history, the strand was founded by my grandfather in 1927 and up until three months ago because he retired, we were part of book road which was an area that ran along fourth avenue from union place. at its height from 1880,

there were 48 bookstores and today we've survived years of big-box stores, amazon, e-books so i'm thankful to readers and writers like you. we are so honored to be celebrating banned books week along with 10 of america. they are tireless defenders of freedom of expression and this awesome panel of authors right here whose books have been banned or challenged because of their presentation and content. we are so proud to havethese offers on our shelf . with us tonight. david levithan is here, he's the author of "two boys kissing" which was challenged in part because of the cover photography which depicts exactly what, exactly that.

he is the author of all wealth of award-winning beloved novels including nick and norah's infinite playlist, or grayson with john green. david is editorial director at scholastic where he got his start working on my kids favorite series, the babysitters club. then we have coe booth, whose honest portrayal of inner-city life has met with challenges across the country. she is a bronx native who holds an na in psychology and an mfa in creative writing. her experience working as a social worker in new york city emergency children's service inspired her first novel, tyrell which is the los angeles times book prize for young adult literature. her most recent novel, "kinda like brothers", was chosen by npr as one of the best books of 2014 and an ala novel book

for children. then we have the multi talented ariel schrag, creative, right here. creative queer started early when she started publishing comments about her high school life while still attending high school. since then she's published the graphic memoir awkward definition, potential and likewise along with the novel at adam. her comic anthologies such as "stuck in the middle" has received multiple challenges due to his explicit language and content in depicting life in middle school. also here to moderate this powerful panel is jason low, publisher and co-owner of lee and low books, the largest multicultural children's book publisher in the united states. please join me in welcoming these wonderful voices to the strand.

[applause] >> okay, here we go. all right. first i want to thank them for having us out here to talk about these important issues, especially in light of what's going on nowadays everywhere but i want to start off by sort of informing you about the american library association's office of intellectual freedom and what they do is they keep track of the banned books, challenges and things like that and they have deemed that basically more than half of all challenged books are diverse books. and so when i say diverse books, the definition of diverse books which was really well put author melinda low who essentially

has written a lot of articles on inclusion on the web so you should check those out but she said diverse books have to do with nonwhite characters, lgbt characters, disabled characters and focus on issues of race, religion and non-western settings. so what i've just defined for you is essentially all of the books that lee and low publishes as well as all the books that these authors have published as well. let's start with some questions. david, we will start off with you. let's talk about the cover of "two boys kissing". it should be right behind me. the image is a literal interpretation of what the book is about. and at the same time has led to numerous book challenges.

because as we all know many books that are challenged are by people who have never read the book. so tell us briefly about the book and what kind of statement youwere trying to me with the cover ? also, were you prepared for the pushback it would receive in terms of challenges? >> the book is about many things but the central identity is about, based on a true story of two boys who break the guinness book of world records or world's longest continuous kiss. a kiss for over 35 hours and they don't have much of an argument because they're kissing the whole time so there are other boys around them who also have storylines. the book was always titled two boys kissing so it was pretty much not guaranteed but pretty much guaranteed that we would show two boys

kissing on the cover and that is exactly what random house did with the photo by, actually a high school photographer named evan walsh . recently, once the book gave themed was called two boys kissing, having the kiss on the cover made it easier for it to be criticized but i think if the book were still called two boys kissing with a black cover we would still have had challenges. the ala and banned books this year had their top 10 list, the top five books all have queer content is definitely a trend that goesbeyond the two boys kissing .so i think that the subdivision is always that we can challenge and identity by challenging the books about that identity. the good news is 95 percent of the time the challenges

are unsuccessful and that identity is defended by the communities so i knew very much that piling the book that way or just writing a queer way or both would certainly make it vulnerable to attack and challenge. both actual and free exhibit which i know we will talk about later. so but the other option is to never talk about it. or just to ignore that identity completely and that is not in my mind, i think in the minds of the community across all sorts of identities, not an option. we can't just pretend kids don't exist cause some people don't want them to exist and the factthat is all the more reason to write about them. >> . >> when you were growing up did you ever see any books like this? >> i certainly didn't see any covers like that. but books like this, no. i think we were very much in the infancy of queer ya when i was myself an adult, we certainly had books like annie on my mind which is very, and john hodgman's

books and there were some but certainly the seachange did not really happen until the last decade, 15 years or so but once the seachange, it is now about getting as many queer voices out there as possible and we are very much in the throes of that. >> when you started out we were talking in the back a little bit and you said you started in 19 and published it in college, did it ever occur to you that you could one day do what you are doing now back then? >> i certainly, the path that it took was not particularly what i would have expected. it's a little bit of a step for me because of the cover of "two boys kissing" but not really because, maybe the reason people loved it was because it presented all the characters humanity and it wasn't afraid to tell the truth to kids so i think when it came to telling my own

truth, it made absolute sense to write why a. so it isn't, if you'd asked me at 19 what are you going to be talking, sitting, in this amazing room in the strand, whatever, 25 years later what will you be talking about, this wouldn't have been in my top 10 at the same time it does feel very natural. i was very lucky to be a part of a wave of authors who all individually decided to write about our own identities or identities of people we love because you don't have to be queer to write great queer characters. i happen to be a part of that and was very lucky. >> so coe, while this panel is about banned books, there's a process known as soft censorship . to define that, soft censorship is sort of like banning books on the download. what is is this soft

censorship is really, it's about when books are deemed inappropriate by an educator like a librarian, teacher or principal before an actual challenge actually occurs. so which is, means that this book never gets near a library shelf or a classroom. >> to talk about what you write about, you live in the bronx and the characters and settings you to pick your books reflect your background. so tyrell which is a book that you see right behind me. if you could tell us a little bit about that book, and then maybe tell us what your reaction would be to a suburban school librarian or teacher who comes from a predominantly white student body and next say she were to say to you that your books or my students could never

relate to the books that you write about. >> i've had that specific thing actually said to me . i think i was in illinois and a teacher came up to me and said, she literally said this. she goes we only have two ethnic students in our school and i don't know what that means. >> i think other students were totally devoid of ethnicity. they. >>. >> they were non-ethnic. >> and she's like why would it be important to have your book in our school. and it was like, really? you're only going toteach them books about things they already know? you're not going to teach them anything else . >> forget about that for a second. a little bit about my book, tyrell. it's the story of a 15-year-old boy inthe bronx and it's about a week in his life . he and his mom and little

brother are homeless and his dad is locked up and it's him trying to figure out a way to get his family out of the shelter they are inwhich is really disgusting and gross . and it's written in photo book slang of the bronx slang and it does have occurs words, god for bid. kids have never heard that. and so i forgot what the question was. >> false censorship, i think i get more censorship and actual censorship in thought. it's that whole thing of well, it's not going to, our students won't relate to this, this is for inner-city kids, this is not for us. or they have it in the library or in the school library and they literally trot that book out every february for black history month and is never available, it's behind the glass case in

a display, you can check it out, it's part of the artwork . and then december, february 29 they put that book away and it's never, it's just not available. or another thing that i get a lot with my books is that it is in the library but it's never shelved with the other books.it's like segregated to a shelf in the back of the library that's called something like urban literature or street literature and i saw a toni morrison on that book shelf, i'm not joking. so it's in the back and it's kind of like we hadbut we don't really have it because it's not mixed in with all the other books . so yes, that's, that's where my books are. it's very frustrating. it's i never see my books mixed in on the shelf it's like beach reads or love stories or whatever. it's like, we have love. tyrell falls in love. so it's like, it's just so

frustrating that it's so segregated and so removed from people kind of stumbling upon it and finding it by accident almost. and checking it out.>> what they're talking about really is, it's the segregation you were saying that it's kind of hidden away. really, that cuts down on the discoverability of the book itself, that no one's going to really be able to take this book up because it's not really able to reach it. >> you would have to be looking for this book to find it. >> have you had people who weren't black to read this book and related to themselves? that's what we're getting at here. >> of course. yes, i get a lot of letters from kids, all kind of kids who tell me they related to it and most of it is because they're thinking of the story is actually about not just with about necessarily, they say i have trouble with my mom to or my dad not around or they can relate to it on different levels than just

being a black kid from the block bronx and i think kids are able to do that one adult thing they are. >> what you think adults are afraid of? >> i really can't tell you. i think it's like they're letting in to their home or their community something that's other, that's a little scary.they feel like it's this inner city. i don't know. i want my kid to know about that. meanwhile all the kids are in hip-hop, and they know exactly what it is but it's so fear, it's like so removed to the suburbs for a reason and if you don't want that book around our kid. it's like it's, they're not thinking that's a story about a little boy who was trying to help his family. they're just being sort of the setting and maybe the language he used and they find it offputting even without reading it. just looking at the cover.

>> and that's a thing, your book is not just about black experiences, but it sounds like there's socioeconomic things happening. there's these single-parent, there's a whole host of things crossover. >> is also to say that it's okay if it is about the black experience. >> they'll still read it anyway. >> they don't want to teach things that the students can't relate to already and as i was growing up, i had an entire lee black and latino community and we read that fee, catcher in the ride. nobody looked at us and said those kids won't relate to that. we read those books so why isn't it the other way around? like a community or with the two ethnic kids, why can't they read something that's just as foreign to them as the great gatsby was for my neighborhood? >> why not? >> arielle, i haven't

forgotten about you over here. quality "stuck in the middle" has been defended a number of times . so challenge usually entails that a parent wants a book removed from the library from recommended reading lists. or from required reading. so tell us a bit about the anthology. and some of the larger implications related to book challenges. also tell us how you successfully defend a book. >> i think for "stuck in the middle", it's like you said an anthology of comics about middle school. by 17 cartoonists i love and it's really tame. i mean, like i have written

also about my high school experiences, those are not tame. those books are explicit, there's a lot of sex, naked teenagers. because of those books are published for adults, i mean teenagers can read them but because they're not specifically why a, they've never been challenged. duck in the middle however is marketed as a y a book . so it has come under this kind of scrutiny. but there's really nothing that bad in it. i think the word. [bleep] use, we don't even have the word f you ck. there's maybe a reference to teenagers painting about engaging in sex. and there's, i think there's a panel of a teenager smoking. >> so it's really not that bad but i think that because it's a comic book, this is why it's come under these challenges.

and that's sort of what the issue is, that the parents sort of opens it up and they see the word based, not like it's all printed, they might not find in a prose book but they see it written in big cartoony letters, it's noticeable. ac you know, teenagers talking about sex in these big speech balloons that are more noticeable so it's sort of, if they open a comic book and immediately say that bad, i don't like that whereas with a prose book they could actually read it to find what they don't like and most parents don't end up doing that so i think their kids home this tonic, they open it up to one page, see something they don't like and decide that it needs to go . so that's what i think is happening with "stuck in the

middle". it's being targeted for being a comic, not specifically for its content, i would say. in terms of successfully defending it, we've always had the comic book legal defense fund come to its defense which is amazing because theyspecialize in comics being unfairly targeted . because images can be consideredpornographic in a way that prose can't . so the people there have always been great and jumped to the defense of the book. i don't, it's been challenged in many school efforts, i don't know what the result of all of them have been but i think they've managed to keep it on the shelf. >> has there ever been a reader, activism happening, people speaking on behalf of your book, things like that? >> people who feel that passionately about it, it's so not a big deal. i feel like people are going to defend something, they want to defend something that's worth defending and not just use of the word

pitch in a short comic. so people definitely have, but it's not been, it hasn't been the sort of thing where people are, i want to fight for the useof the word. [bleep] in a comic . because the book, we've been talking about diverse books and it's not a very diverse book. i write a lot aboutqueer characters in my other work but that book , i mean there are kids in middle school so there isn't too much sexuality at all but the sexuality that is there is mostly straight and it'snot, it really is not that scandalous . >> okay. moving right along.let's see. david, all right. in 2015 there were275 books challenge in the united states . however, the actual statistics could be 2 to 3 times higher and the reason

for that is that if a principal receives a complaint about a book, sometimes he will take the book out of circulation, put it under his arm and hide it away so that definitely sidesteps any protocol, any recording of that book being formally challenged. that's why that number can be higher. the reason i mention all this is because the intolerance of diversity in general seems to be on the rise and more the kinds of books we all view so did you as an author feel a greater responsibility to represent the lgbt community by publishing new books and defending past ones? >> wouldn't it be funny if the answer was no? of course, of course. i think for the authors point of view, it is a very hard

business to be in. the worst thing you can say to an author whose on the banned books list is that great, you must be selling more books which might technically be true or there's more attention to it but at thesame time the difficult part is there is a librarian or a teacher who is in your place defending your book . they always do a fantastic job of it but it's strange to know that somebody's job might be on the line because of something you wrote. and 95 percent of the time it ends up being okay and the book stays on the shelf and it's defended effectively but it's still a fraughtprocess . but that doesn't at all, i've never met an author whose book was banned or challenged who wanted to back away from it. it does engage you to only

push harder to tell the truth that you want to tell and to know there are so many librarians and teachers and parents especially students willing to defend the books that does make you say okay, they are trusting me to be as honest as possible and truthful as possible and to represent whatever identity i want to represent as honestly as possible so my part of the bargain is to do that. and then there part of the bargain is because i can't be in every school with every copy of my book is to defend it when it is challenged and you're right, a lot of the times challenged does not come through a formal process. it comes from a principal or administrator, it comes from pressure to not order books that are called "two boys kissing" or have two black kids on the cover so you have to fight that. i don't know what commentary

that was. >> clearly we have a vice principal in the audience. so i think it does, the goal of the challenger is to intimidate you into silence you. and the result of the challenge is always to energize you and make you want to read better.>> so coe, back to you. i read that you worked in child protective services and social work before you became an author. so i was wondering, to me, parents seem to have little control or influence over the other forms of entertainment but that they are consuming on a regular basis like tv, video games, the web. so i was sort of thinking like, why do people still challenge books? why are books singled out over other entertainment medium, is there any kind of

psychology to any of this? >> i think parents understand books. they know what their kids are looking at on the phone. they're like, what is this snap chat or whatever? they don't know what that is. they know what a book is but also there's an intimacy of books that scares a lot of parents.you take the book to bed with you, you read it, it gets in your system a different way than just scrolling on your phone or online. i think it'ssomething , you remember books forever. you don't remember who posted on snap chat next week. i think it's a different level of intimacy that books have and i think that scares parents a little bit. not all parents, obviously. that wasn't for me. >> does anyone else want to say anything about that?

>> i would also add that they think books are easy targets. that it is much easier, they don't think books will defend themselves.they think there's a grand american tradition of challenging and banning books and they want to be part of that, not realizing that almost all the time , people do defend the books . and specifically when it comes to issues of identity whether it's queer identity or other identity, it is much easier for them to attack a book then tried to attack people in the school itself. so they will try to, if they don't want gay things talked about, they are not going to talk about it in terms of students because then people will be outraged but attacking a book is a symbol of those students and they feel that that is more accessible and the good news is it's not. >> i think there's also an idea that books are supposed to be or learning, they're

supposed to be in the school to learn the facts and i think most of the people that challenge books don't read fiction so they don't know the books are kind of jacked up and crazy. perverse things that touch you and like the reality of an inner life. and so when they discover these books or target them because they have things they don't like, they don't realize most other books are also that intent. and they just think that this is not what their kids school should be doing at all. >> also, when they read books they only support the online review or whatever those lights are that pullout the elements of the book. did i turn my mic off? is it on? okay. a look at the elements and they go this book has profanity, sex. they just like find the little things that sort of

latch onto that's a negative in their mind. and they don't see the book as a whole thing as you were saying arielle, that there's a connection that people make to a character and they feel empathy for people and there are things that you can learn and it may not be facts and figures but you can learn how to connect and how to see another person's life and walk in their shoes. they don't see that part. it's just reduces the book down to these basic things that are, it makes it so, it cheapens the whole experience to me. >> arielle, looking back in the challenges that you face, as well as looking forward to the books that presumably there may be more challenges on the horizon foryou in your book , would you ever be tempted to self censor? self censor your books for the sake of avoiding future

challenges? >> no. >> i mean, yes, no. why would you do that? i guess i don't generally, this is the only ya book i published so if i were to write another ya book, i would have that in mind. i don't know if it would stop me. it's possible, i guess that i could leave something out if it's an editor or publisher told me they thought it would not get the book to libraries and if it didn't feel worth it to me, maybe. i think i would need somebody else to come to me and say let's talk about this. i don't think in my own creative process i would take stuff out because that's the death of art. >> so this last one here is for everyone.

feel free to jump in. so writing diverse books obviously comes with its own set of challenges. not only do you have to be a good writer and write a compelling story that sells, you have to, you have the added responsibility of shouldering a cause. and accurately representing marginalized voices. defending books is hard work for a lot of people, there's a lot of involved organizations, librarians, individuals, readers. there's a lot of people pitching in beside the authors themselves. and the time that you're defending books when you're sitting here on a monday night takes away from the time that you could be writing. >> but what keeps you going. what keeps you hopeful in terms of , not only writing but being an activist for your work?

>> that question was likely the bluebook exam part one and part two. i mean, >> i think again, i think there are two different questions here in that in that you should be defending anything ever written whatever your ideas, whatever their viewpoint is but specifically, when your book is being attacked or the thing that you are, that's is a different element. it's not when the rallying is censored for the witchcraft and wizardry and harry potter. i imagine she doesn't take that personally as a wizard and which whereas when i or a

latino or jazz jennings, our books are censored because they have queer content, or even sure mina ñmeyer who is not writing about her own sexuality, you have "two boys kissing" in drama but it's a buildup, it's the mantle of the people you love and mean a lot you're being attacked through your book. so you have to take on that burden. i don't know that it's a mixture of activism in self-defense, quite honestly that in the world where i don't know if you picked up but there might be a little hostility nowadays to various identities. but again, i think that the great thing is that for me, that i at least have gotten my story out in a few hundred pages is what i'm defending, i'm not defending 140 characters and that we can thoughtfully contextually give a viewpoint into an identity or identities and

again, when the pushback occurs, more often than not it is a conversation point and i will happily engage in that conversation because i know that i'm not just talking about what my books are about, i'm talking about who i am. i would feel strongly defending a book that i had written that was not about who i am, i don't want to make it sound like how sad it is to defend a book because of yourown identity but that is an element of my work . >> what he said. i agree. it's like sometimes it seems so exhausting having to defend the book when the only thing that is being criticized for is who i am. being a black person, living in an inner-city, growing up, not exactly tyrell that growing up in the inner city, those are things people are

afraid of and it's like really? then you're saying you're afraid of me, almost. it just gets tiring.i wish i could write a book and it could be criticized or not based on the content or what the book is about, not who is about. it gets frustrating after a while. >> we do diverse books obviously and i find similar experiences in that you are always having to have that conversation over and over. and like david said, you're happy to do it because that's what you got to do but you get tired. you do. but to the hopeful bunch, remember, your hopeful. >> the great thing is that it's frustrating, this agonizing, annoying conversations you are having our 99.9 percent with the adults. that when you are talking to

the actual teenagers reading the book, the kids reading the book, they get it. they're fine with it. they want to read different books, they're not nearly as full ofbarriers and borders as the people who are protecting them . so i think that gives me hope , that you do see when you do schools, i'm going in talking about my book every day to gymnasiums of 2000 kids talking about non-binary gender, talking about not being defined by your peers. all these things that to your earlier points, when i was 19 i had not thought i would be in a gymnasium talking about non-binary genders. and sometimes you can see the administrators go okay, i don't know. kids are like of course, my gender. of course. so that gives me hope that the things that are controversial, it's all about the gatekeepers but when you actually are with the students who see your characters in terms of the kids around them and in their

world on facebook or whatever, then suddenly it's not as scandalous tothem. and certainly things like language are not scandalous to them. so i think that over time , things improve. slowly. >> there has been a lot of progress. really, there has been to what you are talking about and you can see that from just, you could never check yourself doing this. what you're doing now, that's progress. so i think we have to remember that the hopeful part of this talk. but i think that that's all the time we have for this part of the conversation. we're going to go into q&a now, correct? >> sorry, if you have a question please raise your hand and we will bring the microphone to you and turn it down so this doesn't keep happening.

these raise your hand, stand up, say your name if you feel comfortable and ask away. >> first question of the night, here we go. >> hi guys, my name is peter schneider. and this is a comic question directed for coe. during the first portion of when you spoke, you talk about young readers not seeing differences. and i'm going to digress very briefly. in alcoholics anonymous, unrelated, you come in and you look at the range of

people in the room and you go, i'm not like that. and somebody was with wisdom and perspective says listen for the feeling. >> when you pinch your arm. and you hurt, i know what it's like to feel the same thing. how do you think those kids came to that? that realization, because i'm not sure that modeled or taught. and i think it's very important. >> i think the kids today are so open to it. i don't think they necessarily, they don't see the divisions that we put in front of them.like i was saying, with the music and hip-hop culture, they are open to that already so getting hold of a book like tyrell's for a lot of kids is not an adjustment.

they are kind of like interested in it. i think the adults are the ones who say maybe that's not the book for you or they put it in the back or they just don't think they're going to relate. i don't think the kids eat at all. they're open to it. so i don't know how to equate but i think as they read, sometimes it sounds like, it almost sounds like they're a little surprised. they're like i'm a white kid in the suburbs but i found your book tyrell and he and i are the same in this way. my dad is you know, not around, he's messed up or they find a connection. sometimes it does down like this was not what they thought. they didn't think they would find it sells or themselves in it. thank you.

all the people up front with the questions. >> hello, my name is jason, i'm from the bronx just like you are. fantastic. the idea of banned books is something we grew up with coming from totalitarian regimes and it seems like now is a much moresubtler form. i'm trying to get an idea , when you get opposition from schools and things like that, just elaborate on what that looks like. is it one person, is it a committee? is it a school superintendent? because ifthat's one person, that seems insane. if you could elaborate on that a little bit . >> most challenges, again, talking mostly about the ones that are in the american library association are the result ofa complaint . there's a formal procedure,

it is usually a parent who filed the complaint with the school or with the public library, and then it becomes an issue. certainly sometimes, it's usually that one parent alone who is the one who is attacking the book and there's not a groundswell but sometimes not. sometimes the community divides and there are many people on the sideof the challenger as well as the defender and you never know what you are going to get until then but certainly were most cools and public libraries it does only take one person to file acomplaint . and much to the extreme , extreme annoyance of the librarians and teachers that defend, it is not a prerequisite that the people have to have read the book. they can challenge the book just because of what it is, what they read on the back cover copy , or they read an article on a website. or the front coverthat there is no , there's no

requirement for when you lodge a complaint area but then there is a more stringent requirements for when you are actually owing to do that. >> i had a challenge this summer in virginia and a parent challenged my book eleanor, rainbow rows book and all three of those books were on a school reading list and she challenged it and it was this one parent who said this should not be on the school reading, the summer reading list and then the state senator or something came in and said these books were quote unquote pornographic. i don't know if she read them or not, i don't think anybody read anything and they had this whole big thing and it was in the newspapers and everything and then i guess they had a meeting or something and eventually it was notsuccessful .

it was a summer reading list that was used by not just that community lots of schools. whatever. anyway, it wasn't successful but it was weird. it was like one parent that didn't like the books. >> what band books would you recommend and why? what's your favorite band book? besides her own. >>. >> i really like the absolutely true diary of a part-time indian. >> sorry. >> i love that book. it everything about that character. it just warms my heart. i just love him, he's such an honest voice and he nails all the insecurity of being a teenager and the story is so heartbreaking and so hopeful, i love everything about that book. >> i'll go with empty anderson's fee.

because it is a great example of its challenged sometimes through language and the use of the f bomb and it is such, so deliberate and so supposed to show the degradation of this character is forced to use it. so it's just the irony of the fact that m.d. anderson doesn't use it gratuitously at all. is used so meaningfully and still people are freaked out by it. i think that's sad again, is usually just intended by introducingcontext but it's an amazing book . >> i have a newborn son so i'm going to go with tango makes three. >> which is the book about the male penguins raising a baby penguin and the central park zoo. >> but yes, i think anything that can sort of start children from as young as possible, knowing that there's a family and etc. and

the fact that people want to challenge that is just incredibly sad. >> i'll just throw in, i'm happy to be reading the love by toni morrison right now and it really should be read by everyone. it's just in terms of the how this book is sort of unfolding very slowly and then what happens and what you find out is just so gutwrenching that it's just a shame not to be exposed to that. and it really, i think it's a must read, really. >> i guys, my name is sam. and i wonder, i want to get your thoughts on something. i grew up reading at a young age and read everything. but i found that the books that we are assigned to read in school were painfully boring compared to the things you actually wanted to readat home .

and i remember there was a huge shift that happened a few years ago when i found out that we were studying speak by lori holt anderson in school and i was like, what? you guys are reading cool books but i guess maybe not because now you just ran through a list of, all of those are banned? what? but i wonder if the diversity things are interesting and i never thought out before but i wonder if there's also this ignorance, this idea of not having a clue what their kids are going through and not having a clue that these books will be helpful for your kids growing up and if you have any thoughts around that idea. >> that it's if it's fear, ignorance around the need of what, i guess i grew up reading but maybe you would've gotten the kid more street if you gave them books they wanted to and they felt related to their contents. >> i feel your statement

about ignorance area you hit the nail on the head really because a lot of the rhetoric that your hearing the news nowadays is complete ignorance. about other people, about culture, about things that are pretty much no-brainers. but at the same time are a problem for a lot of people so i think if you were to grow up reading diverse books, you would have that window of sliding glass door, all those things and i truly believe that it would change you as a person. you would not be the same person after you read these books about what you were saying and that books get in the, they get in and they stay there so i think it would be hard to sort of kick that off if you have read this book. >> i think a lot of times people, they just want what they know. they're not open to new things. they want to teach, or they

want their kid to read the same books they read. they're not open to new things and it's like, it's their afraid. it's fear. it's like letting in something new so i don't want my kid reading these new type books and their diverse and lgbt, it's scary to them. so i think that hopefully, the kids are more open but we never read any thing good. at school, it's terrible but we really, it's boring and i like to read and i was in middle school and high school but i never read anything aside. >> i hated all those books and now the kids are reading, a lot of places they are reading way better books. >> i was going to add that i think there are so, it's we have there are so many teachers who love to teach newer books and i think there's some who are ignorant

to them but others, it's purely money or it is that the state mandate which books or the town mandates which books they can teach so it's an ongoing site . both in terms of out with the old, in with the new and making sure that as many voices are represented but i think as with many things,it comes out down a lot of times to money and bureaucracy more than anything else . >> i'm lisa, i'm from austria and i want to extend the university in jersey and it was so shocked when i heard there are books banned in the us. i couldn't believe it. my question might be a bit new, kind of decedent and to this banned stuff. it's not in your area we have propaganda, that's true. but in terms of books that kids are allowed to read,

they can read anything they want. >> there will be no change in the next 3 and a half years. nothing will change. >> but i think this will sound really strange and certainly i don't have empirical evidence but i think the interesting thing about our censorship is that is is so out in the open and there are procedures and there are challenges and battles. i think that in other cultures and other countries, i think it is harder to get published. it's harder vis-c-vis the publishing mechanisms are more lax. i know it's harder in many other countries to get queer voices published. especially for children who are ya but it's sort of, we're ahead of the curve and getting a lot of voices out there but we are also ahead

of the curve of having resistance to those voices so they go hand-in-hand. >> but your point, i think the culture of it is certainly unique to us in that we do talk about banned books week. that i certainly traveled to other countries where they are always very surprised that we have a ranking of banned books and things like that, very unscientific top 10 ranking but i think i don't mind it because i think it is, we know about it because we are engaged in it. and that most of those, the banned books week isn't proclaimed by the forces that are trying to ban the books, that is proclaimed by the people defending them. and that we are making the waves and pointing it out. because we don't want to happen and to speak silently and we don't want people to get away with it. instead, we loudly make it an issue earthly because we believe in treat freedom of speech and believe there

should be a freedom to read but also because we know that our piece of the battle is just a metaphor for the much much larger battle over ideas. so we call it into question because we want attention to be paid. i think it's a way that i don't know that other countries wanted. i think it's complicated. but certainly our culture around issues of censorship is very unique to us, i'm sure. >> you have your books written leading into other languages?>> they have but it's much harder for anyone to get, in some countries. certainly other countries are more embracing but it's how they treat queer people and their culture, definitely is reflected by how they treat queer literature. >> has "two boys kissing"

beentranslated and what about the color cover art ? >> by and large the cover art has. >> i will add to that, like no other time in sort of human history as the voice of the individual been and howard the way it is for better and worse. >> so i think that these things are built in and there is protocol when a book is challenged. i think it's purposely made hard to challenge because you can make a decision for your kids but that doesn't mean you have the right to make a decision for everybody's kids so they make it hard for a reason. and that's why you're saying that many of the challenges actually fail.>> but then also, where i was saying that individual voices are more harmful. that goes both ways. i think that everybody, if

they see something, they have to say something. just let it slide because it's a slippery slope once you do. once you decide it's not worth fighting for this book, then maybe it's not worth fighting for that book. so we're living in an interesting time . >> all right. i'm john. in a similar vein to the question just asked, i'm wondering we are in this moment people are waking up with the paradoxes of receipts, realizing that if you're going to allow speech then you have a freedom for other people to express themselves, there's going to be problems and id seeing these stories that something percent of millennial's think that not all speech should be protected and there's this massive fear of that. i'mwondering as people who have been marginalized , if you're muscle memory,

american reaction on freedom of speech ever comes into contrast with who you are as a person and whether you ever struggle with the additions to that? >> i think that is the paradox. if you are in it for yourself, you'd better be in it for and coulter two. and if you believe in the freedom of speech, you believe in freedom of speech and that freedom of speech includes the people saying hateful things about you. but i think you are, now do i believe every major publisher should give millions of dollars to people who spew hate? i don't. i don't think freedom of speech means you get a lot of money for it or you get a lot of publishing marketing

behind it but do i believe everybody has the right to say what they want and every book has the right to be published by somebody? yes i do. i believe that you can't cherry pick when it comes to freedom of speech, even if that means you have to defend things that are extraordinarily loathsome to you. that is the bedrock of what we're talking about. and again, i think you just have to fight free speech with free speech and that somebody is saying something loathsome you haveto call them on it . >> the solution is alwaysmore speech . >> hi, my name is sandra wilde, on the recently retired education professor from hunter college and ihave a question about authenticity . >>

>> teachers in my class had me i don't know if i'm quite use of these books because they are learning bad english. this is sort of a and related thing. recently a book was dropped from a shortlist of young adult books because it was discovered the author was pretending to be native american and he wasn't. i read the kindle sample of the book and it was horribly an authentic about native americans and i think sometimes books that are not authentic and be more comfortable for people. do you think that sometimes just the authenticity of diverse books can be offputting to people and make them want to challenge them a little more? >> i think so. i think it's the real myth that something. we went to a bot of stage where most of the books that were about people of color were not written by people of color. it kind of was maybe a little bit more palatable for people

because it just, it didn't get in so much. now it's like people are writing their own stories and they are writing it really honestly telling the truth. sometimes people, i don't know the word, , it's not shocking. it's too much almost. like i get a lot of letters from teachers who want to teach but there's always one thing, i love the story, my students, they would say like i'm white but all my students are black and latino and i know they would love it but i can't teach a because, then they pick one thing. like that's too much. a lot of times they say they don't like that it use the n-word in the book, and even though the n-word is always used as as a synonym for like guy or dude. it's not used in a negative way. as a white teacher they can't

teacher because they are uncomfortable with that word even though they know their students would be able to write to the books. it's almost like, it's too much, and i don't know, i think it's almost like we like that it's authentic. our students would love that it's authentic but this part of the authenticity is a little bit, can't do it. it's so frustrating. so yeah i do think that is something. i think we have to, i don't know, they have to just get over it i think it's like they're not used to it. they are not comfortable with it. >> question on the other side. >> i was just wondering, we talk a lot about teachers or parents have maybe try to censor your books but have you ever been censored at an earlier stage like before you are published or maybe an editor said this part might not be grateful you to wt sell as well because that will be less palatable to everyone?

i was wondering if you had any experiences like that that you have to fight at that stage of the process. >> i was really annoyed we had to turn into -- that seem so idiotic to me. like you know what the word is. do you think it is fork? you just made it, it looked terrible and yeah, so that really upset me. it also upsets me now in retrospect that we did it and it is still getting challenged all over the place. i rather would've just said [bleep] >> new edition. >> yeah. >> i don't know. when i was writing tyrell, my editor, mr. david letterman, i remember you said i would like to think like anything is going to be a problem? and you said write the book the way you want, like tell the story you want to tell and then we will talk later kind of, so i wrote it like freely, will tell

the story wanted to on the kept waiting for the talk and it never happened. so i i just like that i had tht freedom to really just not think about anybody outside of, just tell the story and needs to be told and not worry about any of that. i tried to carry that forward with the next book. >> i'm now going to leave the room and she's going to tell you the truth. no, i mean, i've been very lucky, if anything they encouraged me to sort of again do whatever i wanted. i mean, trusting me that i would not do things that just for the sake of titillation or like just a pushover look for the sake of pushing the envelope, that everything has to be organic to the story and it has to feel real and true to the characters. if that is the case then one of the exciting things about,

anything really goes. you are giving context. you're looking at it through the lens of emotional truth not through the lens of entertainment. i think that frees you to come up with some things, some your intended to going to go i'm going to do the scene, and other things as your writing just, find your like wow, i did not think is going to go there but then i went there and i've never had an editor say to me are you sure you want to go there? so that's been fantastic. >> i remember when i was in my nsa program at the new school, one of the teachers read my work and said, he liked it but he is like is this why a? i was like i think so. it's for kids. that's prematurely time somebody thought it was worried, if it would fit in the y.a. world but other than that, no.

>> on michael. i'm wondering how these challenges usually resolve? is it always that in general bureaucratic process? you ever have to go to court or rely on some of the process to fight for your books? >> i mean, to my knowledge it is almost entirely through the official process. so whether it is through the library system of whether it's through the school system, again, almost every school and library has a protocol that is followed. sometimes it erupts into school board meetings and other forms, and sometimes politicians get involved. and you do have legislative attempts which are in my mind hysterical in both senses of the term. like in oklahoma eighth a few years ago -- a few years ago there was a legislator who proposed the bill to pull from the school, the shells of all public libraries, school and otherwise, indie books that had

any mention of homosexuality, which would reduce their collection significantly. it did not pass, but so sometimes if the official process upholds the book there would be attempts, not lawsuit, but legislative attempts to disenfranchise people or to create a lot to get books on shelves. but again, most of the time, the mass majority of the time those efforts fail. >> wasn't there an attempt in arizona to get rid of all the books, mexican or mexican-american books? it was unbelievable. they didn't want -- >> positive -- >> positive portrayals of mexicans and mexican-americans. they felt like i was getting into the politics of immigration and the didn't want kids to learn any of that. [inaudible]

>> i don't know if everybody heard that. >> it was to end the mexican studies program in tucson which they did but the court overturn it. the program is back. >> i know the get rid of even novels, because my friend, his books were swept in that and they didn't want any of his books, god forbid. it was the craziest thing. >> we have time for one final question. >> no pressure. >> untranslated question from a 12 year old. he's too shy to ask the question but the question is, is there a relationship between banned books and pop culture? his point is the kids are, a lot of these ideas are free and pop culture but the parents are maybe not understanding that. so, therefore, the books were

getting banned. >> so the pop-culture is loud but the books are being banned. >> because the parents are sort of shutout of pop-culture, and also maybe the pop-culture is connected to the books in some way. >> i think that's a very good question. i wish the 12-year-old would have -- kidding, i tease. i think that parents don't understand a lot of pop-culture but did you understand books. it's like pop-culture, like i'm one of, i'm not even a a parent and i know nothing about pop-culture so i feel the parents pain. i think they don't understand what you kids are looking at these days, or playing, and they don't understand it so the only thing they understand our books. >> i mean, not to be armchair therapist or, what i'm in an armchair. but i mean, to say the obvious,

but challenges are about control. they are about usually a parent who's trying to control the environment in the world that the child lives in and impose a certain set of values upon that child, or the children around them. they are trying to do it not just for their own child but for everybody. and often times it is the only thing that they can attack in a localized sense, that yes, they cannot challenge facebook about the identity dropbox that they have. they cannot challenge the radio to get the songs that have been banned. they cannot challenge the local movie theater, although sometimes they do protest the local movie theater but by and large those things are out of their control. the pop-culture is out of their control. something that is within their control are the books that are in their child's school or in public libraries.

there is a procedure to attack those and they will be listen to you in a way that they will not listened to it they try to pull something down off of youtube because they don't like the fact that it's positive. so absolutely there's a direct correlation, that has the world is scarier to these parents and they are feeling that they are not having the control that they want to over the world that their children live in, again, they think looks on the easy target because books just sit there. again, the good news is that whenever book is challenged, much to their surprise, the defenders do spring up and this thing they think is a defenseless object he comes an incredibly well defended object by bookstores like this one, by librarians, by schools and by people who are here, by pen. so there is this whole apparatus they don't know that, they think they have easy target but, in fact, it is not one.

>> good answer. >> what an amazing launch to banned book week. thank you, analysts. [applause] >> jason, paul, david, ariel. the authors of egregious to grant and sign copies of the books which are available at the registers, and so take advantage of it. thank thank you, in america. thank you, c-span. thank you all for coming. [applause] >> booktv records hundreds of author programs throughout the country all year long enters a look at some of the events we will be covering this week.