[inaudible conversations] >> good morning. yes, you can applaud. applaud applaud --

[applause] >> i know that you're applauding because you're here at the 2017 miami book fair here in miami, florida. what a beautiful day it is here in miami this morning. that's why we live here, and that's why such a wonderful destination for our visitors. welcome again to miami book fair, and we have a truly wonderful treat in store for you today. i hope many of you have had the opportunity all week to enjoy the outstanding presentations that have been taking place this year. i hope that you will continue with us through tomorrow evening when the seven-day fair closes. you know, this fair just would not take place each and every year without the cooperation, the collaboration, the passion, and the volunteerism of many people in our community.

namely, the students, faculty, staff of miami-dade college. [applause] >> and really hundreds of high school students, middle school stunts and others in the community. so we truly thank everyone for coming together and unifying behind this miami book fair. also want to thank the friends, the circle friends of miami book fair. thank you so much for your support. each and every year. and i invite others to join that circle. i also want to acknowledge the sponsors, ohl and many, many other corporate and community sponsors that, again, come together to make sure that this outstanding literary and cultural event can be brought to thousands and hundreds of thousands of fairgoers every year.

so i know that you did not come here to hear me. so what i'd like to do at this time is to ask you to turn off all of your devices so we can all enjoy the program, and help me welcome a friend of miami book fair, friend of miami-dade college, and he will be introducing our special guests today. help me welcome mr. filipe basuto, regional mark manager of tv bank. >> good morning. what a large crowd. so, it is my pleasure to be the presenter of our speaker. you're not here to see me. we all know that. the beauty is, today in miami has to be one of the nicest days in a long time and we needed that so it's been exciting day, and not only that but exciting day to have such a distinguished

guest here today. chris matthews began his career by working on the staff four for democratic member's congress before moving than print media. in 1997 he began his own tack show "hard ball with chris matthews" airing every night on msnbc. the the author of seven best-selling books, including jack kennedy, tip and the gipper, when politics worked, and kennedy and mixon, hard ball. and now with the publication of bobby kennedy, raging spirit, he is drawing on extensive research and interviews and pulls back the curtain on public and private worlds of robert francis kennedy. ladies and gentlemen, please join me in welcoming, chris matthews. [applause] [cheers and applause] >> thank you. thank you.

>> what an intelligent crowd. i have seen this much iq i don't know. great stuff. well, just came from seattle, the weather is nicer here. it's great to come back here. a outdoorsy crowd here. don't have to wear a tie or coat. we only have until 11:15. the rule says 35 minutes. the book is inexpensively priced. it's actually a beautiful piece of art. there's a picture that i spent -- my producer and i spent so much time trying to get the right artwork. i want it to be a beautiful back for a beautiful guy. i wanted to it have him with minority kids, reaching out like nobody has ever done before. he was the first white candidate like this who real ya reached into the minority commune and

really engulfed himself as much as he. could this is the reason i wrote this book, is this dirt poor white family along the jersey tracks, in june of '68, dirt poor. the kid has no shirt. we didn't grow up like this but dirt all over you, the guy -- the father is obviously affectionatly patriotic about bobby kennedy. something the democrats lost, this affectionate patriotism, gut patriotism of the heart. he's obviously been in the military. got this crisp salute he is offering his democratic leader. this is all gone, the connection of the white workingless and the democratic party. has to come back. it has to. [applause] >> and the salute is everything. and the african-american crowd that day in june of '68, the

audience, something like there is doesn't happen. they sang spontaneously 20,000 in baltimore, the battle hymn of the republic. this is americanism. i want to give you four pictures which i think identify my book and why i wrote it. april 4, 1968, bobby kennedy's campaigning for president. he has gone from notre dame, university to ball state university. in fact at ball state university, an african-american kid said, why do you have hope for america? he said baas most white people and most black people are good people. and he said that he had hope. and as he got on the plane, actually got in the door go to the plane to indianapolis, he get to the word that king had been assassinated bay white guy, racist killing. he said why did i tell that kid to have hope? so he gets to the scene, actually before gets to this very tough neighborhood in

indianapolis an african-american neighborhood, the police leave him, the police escort refused to go in. they don't -- not going to take the risk. they know it's explosive. the situation. so bobby goes in anyway. he says i have to go. so he goes in, and the gets up on the flatbed truck looking at the group of african-americans, have no idea what has happened. there was no twitter and that crap back then. people heard things of word of mouth or waited for cronkite to tell them. wasn't like today. and he said, have -- i work with nbc, i was able to get the tape and you hear him saying to the guy next to him, do they know writ? yet? and the guy says, no. so he has to tell them. and so he gives this -- says, i'm not going to talk long because i have something terrible to tell you. he tells them. and initially the crowd is cheering him because they're so thrilled that bobby kennedy is there, that they don't actually

hear his words and keep cheering and he has to keep telling them. and we have to read it because the words are amazing. and it's classic -- what i like about this speech issue it's awkward. talks about how his brother was killed bay why guy, why thought was an odd thing to do he wasn't killed for racial reason us but the tried to connect. took his skin off to talk to the crowd litsch exposed himself, and any true empathy has to come clothed in vulnerability. you have be to vulnerable to be empathetic. want just say, i'm a tough guy, have my armor on. prayers and thoughts are with you, that crap politics always say. i'm so sick of it. but true empathy comes from pain, it comes from experience, from being a person. can't have emthe if you don't have that. think a lot about the guy with empathy. don't have it today.

our leader and -- i'm note just pointing at the one over top. i'm talk about all the ones in congress. they read out statements written by staff people who are bored to death, cold toast. that's what we get from these people. the other day when trump came out with they tax bill of his, pelosi said ---0 chuck schumer -- doesn't matter who reads this stuff. the same words. it's a ponzi scheme. oh, you original little person. i'm so tired of these people. say something human, say something that means something to you, relate to people about what this tax thing will mean to their lives. they don't even bother too much work. too busy raisings money and kissing ass, which i what they do. >> i talk about the train ride. want to talk about the cuban missile crisis. bobby predicted -- he wasn't a visionary. had a couple of predictions thought were fascinating. one that we we would have an

african-american president in 40 years, off by sten. pretty good. also so damned optimistic. what are the changes a guy like barack obama would come along who was unbelievable about threading the needle of ago african-american and from a whited mother and all the interesting aspects aspects of immigrations that worked for him. him being a genius, absolutely 100% clean, like no politician has ever been. and. [applause] but he nailed that. also nailed the jimmy hoff to toa -- hoffa, he said he couldn't quit. he said hoffa can quit the mob you. don't walk away from the mob. you end up in cement somewhere. we don't foe what kind of see meant he end up in but we don't think is what a happy ending the other prediction after the bay of pig he said the russian will

bring nuclear weapons into cuba. within a year they did. castro says -- told the guy that produced the movie 0 "13 days" i didn't want them to bring in offensive weapons but they did. he also said he liked bobby kennedy but who knows. and he did say that they were wrong to do it because the weapons wore not to defend castro from us. they were to reach every state in the united states -- every city in the united states this side of seattle. offensive nuclear weapons aim at bounces off the soviet -- the imbalance with nuclear weapons. nothing do with protecting cuba. they were aimed at us and cass street would have been standing there in central park if the war had gone the other way watching us all executed.

the cuban missile crisis, he said it has go get them. his brother jack said if we move on cuba, khrushchev is ready to move on west berlin and we were outnumber thread ten to wound, we would have had to go nuclear so he can see the chain reaction, and then he said, you have to calm down the hawks. know what he did? he went into the room of hawks, bundy and curtis lemay, people like that. he said we're not the empire of japan. we don't pull sneak attacks. we don't go and kill everybody without notice just because we want to gain a strategic advantage. we're not like them. unfortunately, george w. bush never got that memo. so, he made a lot of great calls. made a lot of mistakes in this

youth. joe mccarthy and then turned on him. but the thing i like about bobby was his character because when he turned against joe mccarthy, he thought maccar the has gone too far in fighting communism and abusing witnesses and demagoguery. he wrote the resolution condemning him on behalf of the democrats and help bring him down. when mccarthy drank limps to death, in- -- drank himself to death, in three years, bobby stayed with him as a person. he would go to his family and sit there while maccar the across anytime him in a studentor, he wrote in his diary how mccarthy whereas drunk the last few hearings. i'm irish, i understand the whole thing. the clan. you look out for the guy that grew up like you did even if he goes bad itch understand it. all the time he was risking his because's political career because you didn't want to be known as a friend of joe mccarthy.

so he said the airport at national airport, with his daughter, kathleen, who is a friend of mine, and my wife. a friend of my wife even more. kathleen told me -- she was six years old with her dad, with daddy, and daddy gets the word over the car radio that joe mccarthy drank himself to death. at bethesda naval hospital. he was so overwrought by this that he drove around the airport three times. and then when it came time to bury mccar their -- 70 centers showed up for this service at the capitol. four of them went off to wisconsin, bobby snuck along on the plane. when he got he got a ride with a reporter but begged the guy to never say he was there and then went to the funeral site and sat and watched from the car as they burredded mccarthy. politicians are not like this. poll politicians are for show

most of them. he had a character within him. he did things because he thought they were important and that's why people believed in him and his enemies feared him because he actually would do what he said he would do. when he announces for president, nixon is watching from portland, oregon, at the benson hotel. wanting television. bobby announced for flint, march 16th. and nixon is watching the toupe and then when somebody turns off the television, nixon is still staring at the tv set and am like, twilight zone, and nixon starts with that weird thing of him, talking about forces well be unleashed we cannot imagine. and who knows where this is going lead. because the kennedys had this sort of atmospheric connection to this country. people feared them. some hated them. and people loved them. they excited us. and i think in most cases in a very positive way. when jack kennedy went to debate nixon in 1960, bobby was his

cornern man and when he said goodbye to him in the green room, he said, kick him in the balls. who doesn't want a brother like nat? you know who is behind you. henry cabot lodge said, erase in the assassin's image. a real morale booster. i look like an assassin? try not to look like one too much. i mean, jesus. anyway, know what this book is about. and i didn't realize it until i spent he last crazy six, seven mons intensely writing it. so it's about the writing, i guess, and the research, and all the research is based on people i know. or got to know very well. frank man co witness, and ethel kennedy and kathleen kennedy and people close. tip o'neill who i worked with all the years, almost all of

this is inside stuff, stuff that nobody else knows about. the book is really -- i wrote this in the beginning. the book is about what america could use as a leader today. it's what we lack today. and what we lack is empathy, for real people. true empathy. not phony, after lunch at the rotary club b. s. religion, that kind of stuff, but true religious belief. when bobby talked to black crowd in indianapolis he said, let's say a prayer for our country him meant it. prayer meant something to him. secondly, unity. he tried to bring blacks and whites together. when he went through gary, indiana, not like ron howard sang about it. gary, indiana, tough, ethnic town with people with long unspellable names from eastern superthe blacks moving in and rode through the town with the first black mayor littler tony

ziai. the guys remember him. the boxing -- he was the other guy in "somebody up there likes me" about rocky greats llano. he won the third match. everybody my age who is here know wes grew up with booking, boxing. so empathy, unity, being a moral compass. somebody who actually -- we like to thing, the time we're kids watching robin hood movies, when the king or the president, richard the lyon heart shows up, he will do the right thing, be the right person, if it comes down to a judgment, we don't have any of those thing notices our leadership. we don't have empathy, true empathy. even for a war widow. we do not have unity because the person at the top wants to vision because if he can get his 40% he is happy. if he can get 35, he's happy. as long as he gets that. so division is working. people against him play the same

game but i don't hold them as accountable because they're rocketing but both sides love to play the division game. more moneys into the coffers. and third we lack a moral compass. someone who can remember -- when it really comed to crunch and isn't political anymore, the right decision, how to deal with north korea. somebody that is iran, a moral judgment that helps us? i think we need a moral judgment. these issues are too tricky without a moral guidance. impossible for human beings to decide sometimes. you need something moral to guide you. and i think we need all those things. if bobby kennedy and your spirit is running against donald trump this year you have a good candidate. you have a very good candidate. hope you read the book. i loved writing it. i think bobby is more interesting than jack because he is more like us. accessible. wasn't gifted, wasn't elegant. he was the kid that the father

didn't like. and maybe that's why he understood the overlooked. a friend of mine once said -- i was in the peace corps with them and talk about his love life with women and said people don't mind being using, they mind being discarded. isn't that everything? discarded. every since we started the archie bunker thing in the l.a. 70s, making fun of white working people, we kissed them gob. make fun of people, you call the deplorable, theyhart you. saw they cling to their guns and religious? oh, yeah, cling to my. okay. i'm a little person and you're a big person. thank you. i'll be voting for the other guy this time. we need some unity again. and this is my guy. thank you. [applause] >> thank you. i'll take questions now.

i told our guys 18 minutes. i'll be glad to -- i stuck generally to the book. there's a lot of stuff but whatever. i'm here, i'm here. i think you have to get in line, miss. go ahead. please. you voice must be heard. hope i have half men and women here, mainsplaining is over. let's mix it up. >> i've often thought how much better life would be today if bobby kennedy had not left us. often, often thought that. i'm so glad you wrote the book. i look forward to reading it. and maybe the answers are in there, but i wanted to ask, would bobby be successful today and is there another bobby

kennedy -- >> that's the hardest question, but let me think. i think his brother's tribute to him at st. patrick's cathedral after he died was good. he saw suffering and tried to heal it. saw war ask tried to stop it. i think of the vietnam after -- i was part of growing up, anticommunism and i did think the world was being taken over by communists and understand how with got into and didn't want to lose like we lost to the germans, taking one country at a time if get all that. but that was pretty clear by the mid-60s we weren't going to win over there, the people therefor saw it as a nationalistic struggle and it was them against the europeans against us this, french and then us. bobby said, i think he would have tried to end the war. think the war is two times longer thanked had to be. go to the wall in washington, all the people who were killed, i think half as many. i think if the war ended in '69 under the same term wed got in

'73 bit the way. we come home -- get the p.o.w.s and come home. not much of other deal for the communist side. they got to us leave. you go, that's all they wanted to us do all the war was about. we said, okay, we leave. just let us take our prisoners back with us. they could have cut that deal anytime they wanted to. a good deal nor commune gist side. don't think we gained anything by staying there you watch the documentary, i'm sure everybody watched it, on pbs, it was just politics. johnson and then even worse, nixon, sticking it tout get re-elected. wives for election, so king king henry kissinger comes off more by and still celebrated. i don't get it. the division we have in this country in the classes between the hard hats and the long hairs, town versus gown, all that stuff really got aggravated in '60s and never left us during watergate. so it just kept getting worse,

this rural versus urban, the whole thing everybody in this room knows what i'm talking's. the fight that is the definition of everything election. the reagan democrats and at the trump peoples and you can't get the facts to them. facts mean nothing. it's all about which side you're on. we'll see this in alabama in four weeks. see what happens down there i think -- it's tough down. the only alternative to moore is a liberal democrat, basically. pro choice, liberal democrat. just think the abortion issue -- we don't recognize down here -- or up here -- down here is like up here. so, i think that's a tricky one. but it think doug jones will win, think. >> hi, chris. >> three years in there for three years and then bring somebody in who is a conservative and doesn't have

problems. >> thank you for the book, i see at the end of the book it says that bobby saw the election at that time as a fight for the soul of america. we are now in fight big-time, and he does mention our peace corps, and what that did in the inspiration that came from that. but he sees youth. he saw youth as getting involved with drugs, and it's becoming more and more tellistic, i stopped -- materialistic, stop teaching. see the long line for the new iphone, what have you, but stillel stihl just as i was optimistic about domestic peace corps when is was ongoing and worked for bobby's election from the ann arbor campus, i see that i have to have faith in the young people. what do you see? i see that they are people with

plenty of young people out there that want an america like the america i loved and are beginning to doubt. how do you see the young people? what can be done? >> i look at my kids. i look at my kids. i don't do polls. look at my kids and they're very idealistic. and they just are. and they all -- they probably vote the way you want them to. they are very -- almost pristine in their liberalism. i'm not worried about it. >> i'd like you to -- >> i don't think do. >> read the back to the college campuses and speak there. >> okay. well. want to book me? i'm there. >> okay. >> i'm there i'm at any college campus, 34 honorary degrees. i love it. i have about -- i have three or

four i want. they'll never get because i'm pro choice, but i do love going to college campuses campuses ank you're right and people dish know what kids are fascinated by? my kids are. they love any story of the '60s. the 760s -- the music was unbelievable, the culture, the site geist on campus. and every guy is facing the draft and every young woman knows the guys enemies to them are facing the draft. captures your attention. and it was real. politics was not a theory. when i was as chapel hill, it was exciting ump miss it. and i do think the '60s were great despite the horror. bill clinton says if you liked the 6 odd you're probably progressive. if not, you're conservative. thought the '60s were wild and i was -- i was at the march on the pentagon.

i the baby carriages and the nuns and before the antiwar thing got better. all thing get bitter. imi think you're more optimistic than you let on. thank you for teaching. teaching it. >> two quick questions. will we ever get rid of the hastert rule, and speak offering great politicians, every go with tip o'neill to batey's royal royce in boston. ...

>> >> i don't care if it is a gas station or police force. [laughter] if they don't expect these things they're not a first world country. [laughter] they looked at as tuesday my god is a great country with ballet people but they don't have a great political system i believe in it. >> caller: [applause] but with the majority of the republican caucus to bring that to the floor we could have a comprehensive immigration system with that

senate bill with 12 republican bills have all the elements as the open-door policy. nowhere for it to be enforced. and hiring is why people come period you have to regulate it. in the country would want to be doled out libration you regulate it if you keep and then you are a joke. we are a joke. we just go along if you have a job you are here. but to be honest in and above the table and they had this but that rule that prevented it from coming to a vote. democrats were all for instagram, a corker, mckean, it was a good bill and was in their hands now they will argue

this another 20 or 30 years for another live a million people because stupid rules are observed. it should have them laughed out of court. >> and look forward to reading your book. there was a line in the book to comment that he was in the senate which means that he wasn't much of us senator but it was a vehicle for him speenineteen was not a club memberet but teddy was. he talked about how he had to teach his brother had to sit there and pretend to be tinterested. [laughter] >> but teddy got along with the older guys but bobby was

right and wrong. >> so talk about the people of p there. [laughter] >> i will say we're always gets me in trouble is i say they are attractive but i don't know maybe they are. but then do something or say something. make me believe in you don't just be attractive. cory booker. he is so thrilled with mendez. so take a a look at his people they love that menendez they should be looking at this s

guy very seriously. it also getting his resilience girlfriends into the country? and your job is not to do that that is not your job. spee if -- [applause] the then that means you have to have a tape recorder if you do this i will do that it is very hard to get. ever since that macdonald case you're not doing a favor for anybody. why would anybody walk aroundy with it walks like that? to establish cronyism? sorry we have to raise their standards. this is what i like. i am watching young joe kennedy and mr. brown

because hillary had him on the ticket she would have won. [applause] pick a working guy and is day labor guy from the rust belt that would've been a good match with hillary instead of nobody can even remember her running mate. that is what she wanted. she didn't want a competing personality and she could affect anybody she wanted and she blew it. wisconsin and ohio and pennsylvaniaer acting like she was interested in those people. [laughter] >> [inaudible] >> there probably isn't likely. [laughter]

>> i wonder if they will get rid of the electoral college?. >> that will never happen. >> why?. >> whitey think we have it?. >> title think we need it. >> wide we haven't?. >> it is political. >> could answer. because the small states don't want to be pushed around by the big states it will always be there because in idaho you matter if it you get rid of the electoral college you don't matter anymore there will be in florida or new york the of california thoseho states will run the country. [applause] [laughter] that is exactly what the rest of the countryhi thinks for you get all the pleated

the arkin flight to the coast. [laughter] it is called american a with the electoral college. every time i see a national poll between york and california there will be democratic and this is important for different reasons. it better say 12 if they take it by 12 points if it single-digit the republicans will win because of berkeley in chicago in atlanta and miami new york city 90 percent democratic. as they are flooded into the seam of districts in they

win because their votes are allocated around the country. they like to be in the cities that are d a diverse. been going together with different kinds of people to be monochromatic. >> i promise to read your body book but i know you worked as a speechwriter for jimmy carter. i am writing a biography of carter so i want to know how you look back? [laughter] i think jimmy carter was honest with a great executive ability but he was a good guy and try good things which he writes, conservation and understood we would have a

nuclear arms proliferation which we do today. he knew what he was talking about. he just didn't have the background of political authority to pull together the government and also was not a liberal. period and much more of a moderate. but i loved it and i am playing around with their force one. smoking cigarettes, goody and -- drinking good wine and writing presidenthe speeches. we would sit there knocking out index card speeches you cannot be it. itor was the greatest job in the world. i don't care.

but it is exciting. asi was there when we lost. and then to go all across the country. >> barack we are stopping anywhere?. >> their reason is even now florida people can now to see the president but not go for him. with those nice suburban people. >>.

>> and then for the next few months. >> talk about his relationship to lyndon johnson. rob reiner was pretty critical of bobby. and then to talk about. >> i had dinner with rob reinerma last week at his house. it really isov about lbj. it starts in 1940. and was then acolyte of fdr. sitting next to him in the oval office with his embassador he does not like the yen does not a trust it is

all in the book. come on hold and have dinner tonight we cannot wait to see you. i will fire the sob. [laughter] so then god hears about that and then with fdr and in the first meet 1953 and lyndon johnson is the majority leader to be very ceremonial embodies sitting there quietly and i to larry king he said johnson would make a beeline for anybody not kissing his but and body wasn't. so finally he goes down youngun man? that was a fish

handshake then he walks over and says it is 1940, so really it is like two dogs meeting on the sidewalk and they did not like each other. the course bobby wanted to succeed jack. that is the fact just the news frontier and johnson was in the way. and he said scurrilous things about the kennedys have a lot of that was true. but the kids were very sensitive, of three of them the oldou man will put those kids did. one of them killed himself fighting the nazis for go he killed himself in the

amazingly dangerous mission in occupied france. then jack went missing for a week he could have been gone easily by the japanese destroyer risking their lives and he gave up just to get into a ship. they were great americans, the kids from another came from ireland as the air corer guy from australia to liberate those camps. and the kennedys were like that.r so bringing that up and

neville chamberlain umbrella type of guy. >> using the kennedy's like that? bid jack really getting care. bobby saw right and wrong and he is not to be rewarded.et they are very interesting. separately they were very different people but the questiont is good hatred. [laughter] friends in need anything but enemy only means one thing. >> so there is never enough time we need a round of applause. [applause]

[inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] >> booktv on c-span2 live coverage of miami book fair. chris matthews will join us later to take your calls and about 15 minutes the next author is one nation, we are

in the middle of the miami book fair at miami-dade college joining us now is former senator and author author, his book neighbors in arms. senator, first of all, what is theer of pressler amendment that you discuss in youroo book? to make a prohibited aid or military relations with pakistan if they developed a nuclear weapon or using our money to develop one. it was endorsed by the first george w. -- george bush but then bill clinton came in and administratively lifted that. originally there was a series of amendments and john glenn and i worked on this.

but i believe there would not be nuclear weapons in the indian subcontinent today because pakistan was given nuclear weapons by the pentagon so the united states has been the main proliferators of nuclear and conventional weapons and then sold them to north korea with our approval but we have been a major polluter of nuclear weapons. that is part of the passion i have to wake people up to that fact. >> before we get into this, where did your interests develop? rick i became chairman of the armed control subcommittee and i was enmeshed in this issue in the '70s. serving 72 years in congress

but at this point nuclear nonproliferation. but then they backed off because of my amendment they thought they would be entangled but the pressler amendment was debated every year over 12 years with the basis of debates on asia that largely lifted by bill clinton and i would talk to al gore. you may be non-proliferation but the first thing you'd do is lift that against pakistan to of nuclear weapons? the only answer i got is we don't know why we're letting them have the bomb. that was the very beginning then they would develop the bomb unless pakistan got one. >> u.s. gave the technology

to pakistan. >> correct. >> host: is in your view should they be declared a terrorist date?. >> yes. i say that in my book they are. because they harbored terrorists in the meet the qualifications in by four different sets of generals the president of united states cannot launch a nuclear weapon without the concurrence of 15 other people. but in pakistan there are four sets of generals. i am trying to write a novel about these terrorist going to pakistan to buy the bonds to bring them to south

dakota and then set off in different cities. it is a very dangerous situation we are in. pakistan is much more korea.us than north >> host: really? then why has the u.s. been allied with pakistan over years?. >> with a militaryy investment to form the octopus of all theof armed contractors and all the people that are pro orem's export all over washington john glenn had an amendment from participating or sending in the arms to pakistan. then they go to the commerce department l that basically since them the same thing. it goes on and on that way. for policy is not made in

that traditional way. but the very first thing the indian passenger has to do is hire a law firms are lobbying firms that is the truth of the matter washington d.c. is the only place that is true. or even foundations. the brookings foundation and they are very much composite to give arms to india and pakistan. >> host: this follow the arms is follow the of many?. >> yes. bill wolf foreign policy is now made by the octopus i was talking to some young students that want to be active in foreign policy

than i want to join a lobbying firm just to get into the united states senate is a sad situation. >> host: senator pressler do you think india should be a nuclear power?. >> it is and will remain. and we would not have developed nuclear weapons if pakistan had not. just the other day the brazilian ambassador to brazil had a nuclear weapon they would have the nuclearized south america. they just did not want to collide. but of brazil got the nuclear weapon and venezuela and then castro.

so as the sequential occurrence missile when the arms lobby industry happened in india developed one. >> should pakistan continue to get closer?. >> we can but be very careful because the so-called new agreement between india and the united states is in arms sale agreement on our part of of his last trip to india was a arms sales nothing about helping the people of india or agriculture or a solution it was nuclear materials but did not resolve those liability issues because people though it will never

happen. but today they are buying from those impoverished nationss with billions of dollars spent on arms from the united states. >> neighbors in arms. is the name of the buck. before we let you go what is your take on the current state of the u.s. senate?. >> the strange thing about the senate when it was run we voted all day we would go and tell everybody agrees with one vote and voting on amendments all day. with the real estate tax there should be amendments but it is the most dysfunctional from health care and the tax bill they try to get it down to one vote so everybody has to

agree verbally but they should be voting on amendments all day for regular order. that is regular order and that is the way it was when i was there. but that is not done any more so they have very few votes on key issues just like the tax bill is one vote and it should be 40 per day going until denies your on record for everything but the modern day senate doesn't want to go on the record for anything especially foreign policy. not like the war powers after something like that and it is unfortunate but also because the public punishes the senators for taking a specific position. m4 regular order going back to the legislative amendment and several votes per day.

>> before we got started we were chatting about the fact senatorut frank and will not be at this book fair because of the current situation you mentioned you were in the senate when. >> i don't know all the facts about the case but essentially bob did resign the that was done years ago and i don't know how much those analogies are i don't have as much information but i did like both senators personally i think he is of brilliant tax lawyer. >> larry pressler is our

guest here at the miami book fair. >> host: continuing here at miami book fair we will go back into the hall where authors are speaking and coming up next we are talking about the book one nation. booktv will be live all day long with collins with chris matthews and walter isaacson .at . . . come on.

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[inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] you are watching the tv on c-span2. the next event has not yet started here at the miami bookstore. one nation after trump is the

name of his book. you can see him chatting with some folks but he's not quite ready to begin his presentation. we will bring it to life when he does. will let you know about our weekend in miami. after we hear this next author presentation, we will hear from walter isaacson, chris matthews will be joining us your onset. he will be in chapman hall where the events are being held as is katie of msnbc with her book unbelievable about the 2016 campaign. american family, the goldstar family will also be speaking in the hall and katie and chris matthews will be both doing call ins with a spread we have a special treat, we enjoy it, mitch kaplan.

what is your reading. we want to hear from you. it's always been fun because we hear from viewers. to hear what you are reading is interesting. that will be happening today. ewe have a full schedule today. we are back again tomorrow with collins and offer events. the president of spellman college, the former president, will be joining us. why are all the black kids sitting together in the cafeteria is the title of her book. that is coming up tomorrow as well as mark boutin and of course senator al franken was due to close the festival on sunday night but unfortunately he has canceled. that will not happen. that's all coming up this weekend on the tv from the

miami book fair. it's a beautiful day if you happen to be the area, come on down and cs. the c-span buses here passing out bookbags. let's go back in and wait for the next event to start. [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations]

[inaudible conversations] good morning. please take your seat. we are about to start. it is my pleasure to welcome you to the miami book fair. what a wonderful week it has been. it's not even over. i hope you are enjoying all

the presentations, the engagement and the hustle and bustle of the book fair and the street fair in particular. i would like t to give a special welcome to those fairgoers from out of town. can i see a show of hands for out-of-town visitors? welcome to miami. [applause] as many of you know, the sphere would not be possible without the collaboration of hundreds of volunteers, corporate angst unity sponsors such as a way tell and many, many others. i might add, without the convening of miami-dade college is the founder and true presenter of miami book fair. let's give round of applause.

[applause] we are going to get started. this room is always full of engagement. once a guest speaker has concluded, you have the opportunity to ask questions. we will have a few minutes for questions so please do access the microphone in the middle. at this time i like you to ask you to silence your devices and follow me as i give a brief introduction about our guest speaker today. norman is a resident scholar at the american enterprise institute and a contributing editor and columnist at the national journal i and the atlantic. he is the co-author of new york times best se seller, it's even worse than it looks. his book, one nation after trump, a guide for the

perplexed and disillusioned, the desperate and the not yet deported. it's truly an essential book for this era. it's a roadmap for how we can move forward on a unified front. miease help me welcome norman to miami book fair. [applause] >> thank you so much. i have been to many, many book fairs. there is nothing like this. [applause] it is a real testament to the city. the incredible intellectual

diversity and the crowd is certainly a testament to that. i want to add one little foot mark to the introduction which tells us something about our times. back in 1992, i was the first holster for comedy central in its first coverage of our politics in decision 92. i just want to tell you about the first goal i did, kind of an inspired pole. back then, all of the television efforts would get these 900 phone numbers where they would have viewers call in and pay 75 cents to give their opinion on an issue. we got our own 900 call in number and the question was would you call 75 cents to call in and ask your opinion on an issue. we were flooded with calls and 97% said no. as you look at polls, just

keep that in the back your mind. we are at the 294 of the trump presidency or as he says, longer than any other president. for me as many others, it has been 294 days of mostly unrelenting pain. i have two co-authors on this book. we did a book in 2006 called the broken branch, and then we did that book about our politics more generally in p2012 called it's even worse than it looks and then we updated in 2016 to it's even worse than it was and i joked

for some time that the next book would have to be called run for your life, but we decided to go on a slightly different direction and we added in the third co-author, the wonderful scholar, and i do want to say it makes a greatt holiday gift. thanksgiving isvi right around the corner. bar mitzvahs, christenings, great thing, great gift. he felt the need to address what had happened to our politics and to our culture and yet after three books who have given me the title of the debbie downer of american

politics, this book which is a tough critique is hopeful at the end and i will come to that. i will say, i was a little hopeful even during the campaign. i talked to some of my nervous friends and i said don't worry, even if he gets elected, he won't be there long. he will leave us for a younger country. [laughter] he may be leaving us for an older country before we know it, but that's a different matter. let me talk just a little bit about what's in the book and address the situation a little more generally. i am hopeful we can have some dialogue as well. this book is really in three parts.k the first part is how we got here. the second is what the dangers are, and the third is what we can do about it and where were going.

i will say part of my motivation for doing this, and i came up with the subtitle first, which covers much of the country that i would have people say to me every day, what do we do? what do we do now. we really felt the need to talk about what can be done and how we need to rise, and thee hopefulness is built on the belief that donald trump u has jolted the country into realizing what the threat is. i will come back to that but first let me talk about how we got here. we are not referring to just getting donald trump, but to the conditions that led to a trump, that go back decades, and that we could call the rise of trumpets him, but it's something even broader than that and i don't want to play into his ego on that front. at least a part of it is broader changes in the society that go beyond our politics.

we have a chapter on thety decline of community, the sense of detachment that people have from their own communities from c their citizens that has taken place over a lot of territories in the country. some of which are written about very eloquently abou by robert putnam in his book bowling alone also by bill bishop in his book more recent vintage, the big sort of people have increasingly moved into areas where they are surrounded by like-minded people but also created the ersense of geographical detachment of one group of citizens from another. this does go back a long way. we even have sociologists in the 1960s, the moaning, the decline in community, but of course it's also tied to some of the great economic

dislocations and have occurred over many decades. there's another powerful book by this sociologist kai erickson about a community in west virginia that really was a small town in a vibrant community where citizens were linked to one another and institutions worked very well together and then they had a flood in it kind of destroyed the livelihood in the community fell apart. those institutions stop working and we saw enormous dysfunction built into it. we had as well, the book by the great african-american sociologist about what happens in the thriving communities and inner cities with an african-american working-class population when the jobs moved out, and as that happens, the community went under him enormous stress and the client. it's the same thing we see with other places with rural areas and urban areas and places where things are

working the way they used too.s iethese problems in society transcend all of the categories we normally think tabout including the racial ones. we are seeing it play out in a lot of places. those stresses are there and a part of our great challenge is to reknit and rebuild community in the country and rebuild it around something broader than a local area as well that can re-create this great sense of patriotism that is not the negative nationalism, pitting one group another that we are seeing played out now. there's a real distinction between the two. there's also the political side of it. here too, the seeds of donald trump and trumpets him go back right away. some of it, let's face it, are because of the enormous changes in our geography that

changed our politics going back to the 1960s, starting with barry goldwater, that seminal moment when lbj signed the voting rights act and turned to his aid and said this is going to cost the democratic party the south for generations to come. some of it actually precedes that and the rise of air-conditioning as a common phenomenon, i'm old enough to remember when i was a kid and air-conditioning was not commonplace at home and at a hot day we would go to movie theaters cool off, but then it became a commonplace thing and all the sudden the south became a place where people could move and live year-round , and that meant a lot of seniors moving from the northeast and the midwest down south, and those were often republicans who had populated regions that were thriving

places for moderate republicans and move them south and it helped to make the voting rights act in the civil rights revolution. the south, moving from a solidly democratic region to the most significant republican region, and of course, music, i often asked to be accompanied by music, but right now i'd rather not. they created some great divisions racially in the south that transformed it as well. the northeast and midwest had been bastions of moderate republicans and became strongholds for democrats, the west coast went through a similar transformation, and wet saw our parties that had been, when i first came to washington, kind of conglomerates cutting across a lot of ideological boundaries but with most of thett members

somewhere near the middle beginning to change and those changes affected both parties but they affected one more than the other. back in the 1970s, when i was teaching political science full-time, i would describe congress in this sense but i would say imagine if we took and put themrs on buses and drove them a mile and a half east to the capital which was ourhe football stadium and we told them to go on the field and placed themselves where the worldview would make them the most comfortable and we went up into the press box. we would look down on what would be like a normal distribution. the vast majority people somewhere near the midfield strike, generally between the 40-yard lines and quite a mixture between the two parties, trailing off to a small number as you move down and away from the midfield area. if we fast forward to today and repaint the football lines on the now defunct stadium and

went into the press box and look down on the members of the 115th congress, we would see a pretty barren midfield area. at one side of the field a lot of people congregated around the 20 or 25-yard line trailing off to a smaller number and on the otherrra side, you would have one or two people before he you got to the goal line and then you have a whole lot behind talpost and even more floating in the river nearby. that is a real change in our politics. the fact is, you can have a polarization of the swords fthat we talk about so much and still have problem solving. i look back on, for example, the odd couple, last week my co-author ej and i were at the edward m kennedy institute on the senate in boston where they re-created the senate chamber, and i was reflecting on that relationship between

teddy kennedy, proud liberal and orin hatch, a proud conservative. and lifestyles that cannot have been more different. they have provided health insurance to 9 million children. that wouldn't exist if it weren't for that relationship. it will also tell you something about the tribal nation of our politics now and the radicalization that children's health insurance program is now almost two months without being funded, and we have 9 million children left vulnerable as a consequence, and the chairman of the committee responsible for it is orin hatch who has instead decided to push through a tax bill that provides great benefits for owners of private jets well whtaking away the scholarship tax-free status for graduate

students so even those people who were problem solvers are not anymore, but we had it back then and then began to change and he began to change with newt gingrich. when new came into congress, and i met him right after he arrived after the 1978 election and i met him in hjanuary 1979 and tom and i sponsored a series of small dinners every couple of months with members of the class of 1978 to take them through, off the record, their experiences in their first term in congress and we picked eight people representing different viewpoints in different regions, but also we want to pick people who would make a mark. we have dick cheney among them but he sort of dominated the conversations but he wanted to find a way to create a

publican majority in congress. at the time he arrived, 24 consecutive read years and the only way to do it was to create this national sense of disgust with politics and washington and everybody there so people would say throw them all out and not read the end. ins would go on the outs would go and to be frank, after 24 years, power does corrupt, they have become arrogant and rrcomplacent and were condescending toward the majority, the minority, and often a little corrupt and they overreacted, but he deliberately tribal lies the process including those who had gone along with the majority because they got through the policies they wanted and then do the same thing in the country.

a populist outrage over a pay raise for public officials, bill clinton's election gave them the vehicle to do it but it permanently transform the way we deal with our politics. he brought in a group of people who viewed the world in tribal ways and also viewed washington as an intercesso cesspool. just to give you one story that i first wanted to be careful of, but tells you what happened in the politics, one of the people who came in during that era was a man named rick santorum. he's now familiar to the. several years after he left the senate, one of my dear friends and great heroes alan simpson, a conservative republican from miami walked into the capital and he walked into the chamber together and they saw dale bumpers, a

former democratic senator from arkansas and almeda beeline over to him and they had a warm embrace and then he saw santorum looking agitated and motioned him over and he said was that all about and simpson said that's dale bumpers. were almost like blood brothers. weird dear friends we worked on many things and santorum said we don't do things like that around here anymore. that's tribalism. when i sauce something, to validate the story, i said was he agitated because you are embracing the democrats or because you are embracing a a guy. [laughter] i won't tell you his response but maybe a little bit of both. but that tribalism mattered

and at the same time, that pay raise that i mentioned mattered as well. that was in 1988 and what we had was the elites in society, at the time we had quadra onnual gatherings to evaluate what we should do with the pay of members of congress and judges and top executives, and they decided that because they haven't had a raise in ten years and it was getting hard to find judges willing to come in for those lifetime appointments and members of ercongress were getting stressed , they would make up for ten years of inflation with 25% pay raise. it was supported by ronald reagan as he left office and george herbert walker bush and all the leaders in congress and the public went ballistic. now, the previous year, the federal communications commission had eliminated the

so-called fairness doctrine which said if you are in a broadcast and you present one point of view, you have to balance it with another.. with that, rush limbaugh who rad been a noontime talkshow host in sacramento moved to new york to try to make his way and then the payraise gave him the rockets start dumb and that created talk radio as a political phenomenon and began the tradition of tribal media that we have now. all of those things mattered and all of it became amplified as they moved through, into the obama era and then what we saw was the economic strain and the populism that emerged full-blown with the financial collapse in 2008 and the response of the elites as president george w. bush and his treasury secretary hank ,paulson and the chair of this

fed and all the previous chairs met with the leaders in congress and said the entire global economy could collapse and make the great depression look mild by comparison. we had to act now and they came up with the bailout known as the troubled assets relief program. what many people fail to remember is that itt actually failed, despite that urgency in the enormous support in the house of representatives because a group of radical house republicans and said why should we believe any of this. dropped over 700 points which back then was a big deal and they came back and passed it but the resentments remained and most american said wait a minute, let me get this straight, just like the 25% pay raise when most of us were getting a 1%. year end maybe we were making 25000 while they were make and 87500 and itching and complaining that it wasn't enough, this time it was what you did was get together and

bail out the people that got us into this mess and then they got big bonuses on top of that. what happened to us? we lost our houses o or if we didn't lose her houses, they declined in value by 30 or 40% and most americans don't have cash savings. their nest egg is in the home and as you get older you can downsize and have a retirement fund breaking out money that you can give your kids for tuition or for a down payment on their homes and that was devastating. i will mention one thing that will tell you something about the nature of our country and our times, a survey that's done every year and most recently showed the most shocking numbers i've seen. people are asked if you had an emergency that required $400 in cash could you come up with it. 68% of americans say no. so, you blow a lot on your

car. a tree hits the house and you've got to pay the deductible on the insurance. you have a medical emergency, you can't come up with cash in the bailout, what did that say. those americans, and even those with s some resources but who were hurt. you lost your job or if you didn't lose your job with the stagnant economy, your employer knew they had you where you wanted to and can make you work longer hours for less pay. we saw the occupy los wall street movement emerged and the party on the right and all that began to feed on itself to create some of the seeds that could create the emergence of a donald trump and trump himself splitted that s anxiety and some of the larger anxieties over the changes in our country, the growing diversity, the fact that by 2050, white americans will no longer be a majority in the country, when he

cynically exploited the birther movement to become the leader of a movement that is openly racist in nature, and that gave him a platform to run for president. at the same time, as obama came in, republican leaders in congress, on a inauguration eve 2009, desperate, demoralized, depressed because not only have they lost the white house, they lost the house, they lost the senate and they met met togethe together, including some who called themselves the young guns and they had dinner at the caucus room, a restaurant just a few blocks from the white housee and they emerged with a spring in their step because they figured out that the way to move ahead was

unite completely in opposition to everything obama democrats wanted and he legitimized any of the actions that were done, blocking as much as they could and that worked like a charm heading into the midterm elections in 2010 and the young guns expand around the country taking a page from the gingrich playbook and p reap crew did a bunch of candidates and exploited that tea party anger and said if you bring us intos power and give us the congress, will bring obama to his knees and we will revoke obamacare and will blow upe' dodd frank and will blow up government as we know it and they won the sweeping victory and none of it happened. and then they came back in 2012 and said don't worry, if you vote for us, after all, the scale has been pulled away from the eyes of americans, they know him for what he is. it'll be a one term presidency and we can do what we want and it didn't work. then it 2014 we were outnumbered to the one, if we

can win the senate we outnumber them and will bring obama to his knees and get rid of obamacare and dodd frank and none of it happened. that set the stage for the 2016 nomination contest. conventional wisdom said republicans will do what they always do. then they will nominate the obvious establishment candidate in the obvious candidate was jeb bush. we have bush 41 and bush 43, no child left behind, but he was the lost child who was in fact left behind because the reaction of the tea party populace republicans and conservatives out there was that you're no better than the other ones. you told us government was

evil and you blow it up and you didn't your establishment is just like the rest of them and an outsider was going to be the choice. it didn't have to be donald trump. it could've been ted cruz. the insiders outsider who was calling his own leader a liar which had never been done arbefore work ben ben carson, the celebrated neurosurgeon and after american conservative, but trump had his finger on the party and understood the dislocation that people felt in the loss of community, the sense of their own role in society was slipping away and some of the populism, theof isolationism, the nativism, and often the racism that can accompany its, and it's when he got to the right of everybody else on immigration, talking about the mexican rape is

coming in and praying on us and putting up the fence and the wall and making mexico pay for it in the muslim ban and all of that, and if you watch those debates you can see ted cruz before that anyone can get to the right opinion on anything, and it's when trump took on the other candidates and belittled them. he really likes to belittle floridians. and all the other candidates, and then taking on fox news and making kelly's and it was basically i'm not like these week establishment figures who bow down to obama, i'm not taking crab from anybody and he played on another great meme in american life which is politics are so awful, they don't do anything, they're so corrupt, why can't we run government like a business and he gave a map promise and i will tell you right now we are

fulfilling that promise. we are running it like a business, the business is trump university. so, all of that enable trump to win the nomination and the frank reality that we had two candidates who were underwater in terms of public support and they gave him the conditions in which he could compete and then a lot of things that happen in the final two weeks, combined with what we now know was a big fat thumb on the scales of our political system , combined with some voter suppression which we now know made a difference in wisconsin and gave them the ability to win even though he did not win the popular vote. now, he won under the rules. that's the reality. those rules may need some rethinking. i will just talk for one

minute about the electoral college and note that from the moment when the popular vote actually meant anything at all, in 1824, all the way up through 172 years and 44 elections, we had three in which there is some question about whether the winner of the popular mandate actually was elected president, one where it was very clear, one out of 44. from 2000 on we had five elections. that tells you we are heading down a path where increasingly we will see the winner of the popular vote lose electoral college and it can happen once and we can say those are the rules which is what happened in 2000, when it happens twice and then three times and four times, the question of the legitimacy of the presidency is going to be a very real one and it's something we will have to deal with.

let me talk for a few minutes about the second part of thehe boand what brought it about. i want to mention three words. attackers he. [inaudible] the first two are familiar. attackers he, and that's a real danger that we have, and we've seen some very powerful books including a a best seller about the steps that move you away from a vibrant democracy toward and autocracy, and the fact is it goes sliding step-by-step, little by little. i don't like to use this analog analogy, jim fallows

is constantly talking against it, but this is a little bit like the frog put in the pot of cold water. it changes degree by degree and it's only when it starts to boil that he realizes where she realizes that it's the point of no return. what we know is it starts with attacks on the free press. the press is the enemy of the people. a phrase originated, rejected as being too dangerous, picked up by trump. it moves to attacks on the judiciary and the independent judiciary which we saw during the campaign with the mexican judge, which we've seen since on the attack of judges that have ruled against the travel ban. we see it with the attacks on the system of justice, now on the fbi, the intelligence services which are a threat on muller himself including from abroad. we see it with the sense of i am the only one in the

campaign and the egotism. what trump just said a couple weeks ago with the multiple vacancies in almost all of the key positions in the state department. we don't need to fill those, i'm the only one that matters, and in a whole host of ways we see that movement. we see it on facts and science and on the opposition. the delegitimize is the opposition. we've never seen anything like this. the in-your-face moves to benefit personally with your family and throughout your entire administration from government itself. that includes billionaire like the treasury secretary and the head of the national economic council as well as the president and his family. the threat in the system designed, i'll go back to the first sentence in the book, american democracy was never designed to give us a

president like donald trump. we are designed toon create some boundaries around the process. those boundaries that were working reasonably well with the independent judiciary but start with an independent congress. how many hearings in the house and senate, in ten months on violations of the two a monumentss clauses and on every efforts including by the family to enrich themselves? zero. not one. no checks and balances. now the 17th century term that comes from a greek word, and i'm not doing what i can to bring it back, and the greek word basically means government by the worst and most unscrupulous among us, extended to the worst kind of government. so, you have a president who has the least experience of any in our history. no experience in any level of

government. the one who comes closest is abraham lincoln, one term in congress. he knew he needed people around him who knew what they were doing. the book, the team of rivals was not about bringing a bunch of people together and pitting them against each other, it was oh my god i need the most expensive people and that means bringing in people who hate me and who iran against me. trump bringsngng in a chief of staff, a guy who had been a party functionary and in the wisconsin legislature. whenever you see him, always keep in mind that. [inaudible] do not look at him without thinking of that. think of his name without the vowels. then you bring into your

cabinet goldman sachs executives and business types who have never served in government before. and then, with the 600 or so top policies. [inaudible] kim bassler ships don't even have nominations. when you have a president who goes to asia with the threat of a nuclear conflict with north korea, and we do not have an ambassador inut south korea, and you don't trust anybody else, when you have a secretary of state hollowing out the diplomatic corps and will take decades to bring

back the experience of the people who are leaving in droves, none of that is an effective way to run government. when you have a budget directoror who rightly calls himself a right-wing nutcase who calls comes up with a budget that says let's cutss spending because we don't like whether satellites because they tell us something about climate but they are the early warning system for hurricanes. take away the early warning so people don't have time to prepare and then cut funding for fema c can build the wall, cut funding for the pandemics which everyone hundred years we have a pandemic, the last one was 1917 in 1918 which the flu killed more than world war

one and world war ii combined. all of those things need our focus. just a few minutes on, i know the time. just a few minutes on why i'm hopeful and where we go from here. i thought of this while i was watching dunkirk. the west was facing a deep threat. they were caught with 400,000 troops on the beach, sitting ducks, the british military and what was left, british civil society saw the threat and rose to the occasion.

i hope donald trump is our dunkirk. we have to recognize that society divided is a society that cannot survive. we are divided politically, tribally, blue states and red states, seeing other as the enemy or not just in adversary , more americans saying they would be upset of a child of theirs married someone from another party or even another religion or race. we are divided into geographical boundaries were metropolitan areas that are highly educated and thriving in the global economy find they are facing a very different atmosphere as you move to smaller towns and into rural areas of the society is

coming apart at the seams. ifbl we don't find a way to heal those wounds and that includes the racial divide, then we are not to be able to survive in a way that we have before. that could have gone on if we didn't have a trump until it was a point of no return. now i think were starting to realize we had to find ways to recommunicate and build a different level of empathy and build it around patriotism that celebrates what we are what we can be in what we should be in a new optimism.m. at the same time, the extra essentia threat to our planet

and to a community that is not responding to a popular will in any fashion. we see that with proposals on healthcare and taxes and many other areas, we will now find ourert way forward. all what we are seeing is this wonderful response from so many elements of the civil society. it includes lawyers, probably more lawyer jokes and any other in the society, look at how they responded to the travel ban. orbut how they responded to pro bono efforts with people getting up on immigration law so they can help people that are caught up in this cruel approach that were seeing.he another part of the.

[inaudible] we are seeing it with religious groups that are stepping up, including the catholic bishops, moving back to help protect the safety net , one of the great callings of our great religions and the effort to build both sanctuary congregations and also to create a different climate and dialogue. we are seeing it with some of the groups like the campaign legal center which i am a chair, the citizens for responsibility and ethics in washington, taking on the photography and some of the other challenges of the law. we are seeing it with the muller investigations and groups of indivisible rising from the grassroots up to mobilize, and what we are seeing is there's a different response we've had before. the occupycc movement, in contrast, occupied and then they went away.

nowce we are seeing sustained effort and that played out in virginia and other areas.s knowing that their actions are being watched and holding them accountable for it. with that, and if we can create a different way, and this is a tough thing, separating out a group of people who are truly evil, there are evil people in the society who are exploiting racism and anti-semitism and ugly valuesug to separate us and some of them in the tribal media because they could make a lot of money but also because you can build a network that reinforces some of those views, separate them out from others from those who may support political figures, exploiting those views and doing it out of the great upheaval they face in their lives in the sense of despair they feel toward their futuresd

and those of their children, and we have to find a way to develop a dialogue with them. if we can do all those things we will not just survive all of this, but we can thrive and create a better america. with that, i will see two things, one have a nice day and to, remember the holidays are coming. [laughter] [applause] now i am happy to take some questions or comments. >> a couple of things. first, on the state department, it seems the intentional state department doesn't seem accidental. first, do you think it's

accidental that tillerson secretary of state is presiding over what's going on? also, d do you think the muller investigation is going to get to this already see that going. >> lastly importantly, structural solutions. i don't hear you talk about the structural solutions in terms of the electoral college. out easily, if that can beoc fixe fixed, the democrats would win so that would be crucial. can you say something more about that. >> really quickly, one of the things we have to keep in mind is that rex tillerson secretary of state because condoleezzale rice recommended them. he served on an exxon community and thought he was smart and might be good. i hope every night they kicked themselves for what they have done. we know one of the reasons tillerson was picked is because he looks like a secretary of state and bob

corker was not picked because he is too short. i don't do any of us expected he would be systematically destroying the state department the way he is. i'm nott sure what the reasons are, but we also know a guy from exxon who was awarded the top metal from russia is somebody who needs to be watched very carefully. s on the electoral college, we are strong supporters of the electoral vote compact in states. you don't have to do this with the constitutional amendment. 165 electoral votes representedtaave and pass laws t as soon as you get over the 270 mark, in their law they will. [inaudible] there are still some structural issues and dilemmas though.

>> is that going anywhere. >> it will take a while. one of the problems is that small states have no great interest in changing things but i would also say, this is nottff a matter of guaranteeing the democrats can win elections. what's important is that we have totwar vibrant parties that can compete for national elections. the choice is, do they try to have policies that can reach out more broadly to compete in a fair national election or do they instead narrowed the choice to rely on billionaire ndnding them and on folder suppression. think the country and the republican party would be so much better served if they moved in the former direction. >> can you talk a little bit about the republican philosophy. >> starving the beast, one of the things that's happened, we have a republican party that's gone from a conservative party which believes the government should be smaller and leaner andd meaner and that we need

government, many parts of it, and those parts should work effectively and efficiently, and one part has always beenas the policy and our positioning abroad. now it's a radical version and the radical version is if any parts of government work good that's bad because people will like it and want more of it. the tax bill is very much aimed at cutting out revenue from the government and forcing government to downsize as a consequence. it's a cynical approach, to some degree it goes back to david stockman at the beginning of the reagan administration who then denounced it because he said it can't work. the tax bill hits them directly, 25 billion takeno

directly out of medicare and that will have an impact on dual eligibles and the system itself and it's not a functioning government approach to actually helping citizens. >> there is more than enough reason to blame the republicans for where were at now. part of the problems is also on the shoulders of the democrats. i'm reminded of a story of how lbj, when he was in west virginia, actually went to the trouble to talk to this one particular person, and you know the story, where he talks to this one particular person who was voted republican all his life but because lbj went in there and talk to him personall personally, he got this man to switch his vote

and the county to switch outvoted. i think the big problem is that democrats have given too much of the country to the republicans. it's a big problem because most of the problems you mentioned are systemic and to fix many of thosemind problems, the electoral college with money in the syste system. >> so let me answer in a couple ways. the first is there are no angels here. this is not one wonderful group of people in one horrible group of people. it's m the nature of politics.

you cannot put one groups pain against another. we should be talking about the white working class, we should be talking about the working class. [applause] this has been a problem that has affected all communities and there are policies that can help deal with them and alleviate the pain, and you also cannot approach this simply from an elitist perspective. now, when you talk about analogies, looking at the past, many people have said. [inaudible] i would also argue that very powerfully, this could be a little bit like reconstruction. if you remember, in the aftermath of the civil war.ar , the south had basically weight share cropper's with white, black, all of whom were struggling to make it in a small group of economic elites exploiting the system and an easy opening that was almost there for the working people

to unite and take on those elites. what the elites did is realize they could use race as a wedge to exploit and divide, and we are paying a price that even now. we are seeing it again. we had to fight against that. : all groups that are facing these stresses and try and find ways for each of them to see why others have pain and look at it through a different prism. so thanks. yeah. >> yes. you spent a lot of time talking about how trump used racism, appeals to racism in his campaign supposedly, although there's really not any proof of that. but what i wanted to ask, i wanted to ask you kind of the >> -- maybe it's the democrats >> maybe it's the democrats

tries to drum up hatred with the black lives matter and that stuff and in addition to that open borders which i con sang thely hear in thes and like you say by 2050 you pick a clause. you're thee. racist you want to displace the white population by 2050 if we continue these how is that not racism. so first just one little piece of evidence, when you see marcherses in charlottesville some wearing withing white hoods changting racist and anti-semitic slowen go and president says there are a lot of fine people there, and saying nothing after a bunch of people are murtded in the church in charleston, i view that as evidence, and i think we have a lot more.

when you run a campaign say ising barack obama is born in kenya is not -- i think the writing is on the wall with that one. now having said that -- and -- i don't celebrate the fact that the country will not be a majority white after 2050 but i view it as a variety. you can go back to 1920s and 30s and all kinds of people who talk about the italian pliewght thehe country. and the same with other ethnic groups, that -- face theou different reality isy late colleague ben, said people want to cool to this country because they want to make better live t for themselves and others because they celebrate the freedomel and prosperity of america. they're the right kinds of people that come here. they have built this country

into what had it is whatever their race or creed or national origin or religion, and that doesn't mean you don't have ways of o protect your borders, and t when you have a party now that's trying to cut legal immigration as well i as illegal immigratio, i do not find that as being something that fits either our tradition or our ability to thrive in the future. if we're going to end up like your honor countries with aging population and young y people can't pay for what will happen to older people if we don't have a sigh brant work force who wants to make it to make their families betters we're not going to survive as a country, and i just -- do noti view that in the same way.am now, having said that, i don't think there's a contradiction between understanding what the black lives matter movement is all about 37. i cannot imagine i get emotional

because i lohse a son. i can't imagine what it is like for a. family to send a teenager out for an evening and worry that that kid might be shot by a cop just for driving while black. there's a difference. those things happen in this society. but you can feel that pain and also feel the pain of a family in a small town caught up with an opioid addiction because jobs aren't there and society isn't providing for them. there's nothing that cases one is -- to the other and what we have to do is make people understand all of that pain. yes. [applause] i appreciate that. tomoperez the new dnc chair strikes me as an awfully good

guy i love his energy. and i listen to everything he said leading up to the election and after. it's's my sense that he talks about -- you know, the tenants quite often asqu he should to keep things. yet every time i watch and listen to him he's never said in addition specific about democracy growth and it strikes me that he by default it a degree if that continues run risk of seeding that issue to the republicans -- period where independents will bebe crucial any thoughts. >> yeah, yods think -- there are two camps. i think in a party in the minority. one is you just high lite your opposition to what majority is doingig and it is almost sense that if m somebody is committing suicide you don't -- you know, kill them along the way. but the other is that you offer yourha own positive agenda.

and if you don't do that, you may succeed in the midterm election. m but you're not going to be prepared to govern, and if you can't offer people soul sense of which is why a chapter that makeses great holiday gift is -- is an democracying agenda, and it's about creating growth, and jobs and by the way, or there many ways in a tax bill to provide incentives for companies to actually do jobs instead of just g saying do more money andt will trick are l down when it trick are les down to shareholders and ceos. but what we've seen is enormous reservoir in money corporations that they could use to create nor jobs that they don't. you need to have incentives to do if. i would like to see those alternatives. but i also want to see democratic party that starts to put reare sources into state legislative races. and intond secretary of state races. which are the ones that -- control elections -- so or there a lot of things that have been to be done tom perez

has niflt energy i hope he begins to channel in a different way h iowa and i hope that democrats in congress and in the states start to work on their own plans. i have about five more minutes if ctd just take remaining questions and then i'll try to answer them take them all and then i'll answer. t >> okay. in january we're going to do a book study of your book at church for anybody who is interested. particularly focusing on the last parts on the -- serve positive proposals, i wonder if there's any those proposals that you would like to highlight this morning. >> sure. >> hi, hello. i want to thank you for your shoutout to the legal community per part of the pushback i work for the american civil liberty for last 40 years and we were, thank you. involved in that but i think to change subject and ask you today is "times" editorial talks about

the significance of in virginia, of the refranchisement of the right to vote for former felony, and i want to make a little commercial here. we have the opportunity to change florida, and in changing florida change the country by the effort here in florida. people here will see that addition outside and if we can refranchise over a million people here in florida, that's one of the major ways we might be able t to accomplish many of the things that you've been talking about. thank you. [applause] youn mentioned drug act back in 1983 the kurpght current tax bill takes away incentive for rare disease drug research what can we do now to say come back to being your compassionate self mr. hatch?

[applause] thank you. okay. what can we do? just quickly on all of those in terms of proposals, if we're looking at the structures of government, we need to not just focus on the electoral college but we look at redistrict reform and what i hope will be one very good change that we can make state is by state in our presidential elections which is to allow rank are choice voting or preference voting so that you're not only vote for first choice but second and your third and then those votes get allocated as you move further u down. and that's because -- to remove the possibility that a jill or rile of or o patsy canon can switch outcome of a election and let them have opportunities and let people vote for those if they want but not alter results in elections so a lot ofso proposals worth

discussing. on the felon if you look at the some of the videos on youtube of former felons this is virginia. able to vote for the first time, people who had pads their debt to society who were productive citizens and wanted back a very precious right. and many of them -- it you know and had sit allergen african-americans more than others but plenty of others as well. many of them caught up in the drug wave with these mandatory minimum sentences put away for many years -- didn't do anything horrible or violent. the idea that they are forever forbidsen from voting i think, is an of and of hatch who i word with in the podcast and call a friend in the past who has been enormous disappointment and you look at this tax bill with many provisions leak the orphan drug one like taking the scholarship opportunities away. if you have vladimir piewtsen

and want to destroy science, technology boy you would love this particular provision.. one of the things that all of pus have to do is to go out and get some members of congress and -- because this bill is going to come around again in the b house and we're going to see a vote very soon in the senate. and marco rubio has to be many y informed about horrible things many this bill and what would what they would do to floridian and others in the country to hold accountable for the vote they cast and then hatch will be leaving before long somehow bringing him back to being the problem solving conservative that he was. really has to be a task for people in utah i'm afraidz and for those of us outside who are able to hit him on twitter as i do on a fairly regular basis thank you all veryou much. appreciate it. [applause]

thank you u mr. orangeseen and he'll be signing his book on this floor. on the other side of the elevators. but please make your way there if you would like to have your are book autographed. thank you. please by help us by leaving the room as yikly as possible if you're not remain hadding for the next program. and you're watching booktv on c-span2 live conch the miami book fair for the 20th year in a row we are in miami, held on the campusn of miami-dade college in the downtown area, got a booktv

set here as well, as the c-span bus, and if you're in the area come on down to pack up a book bag from the bus to take a tour as well. in about 15 minutes walter isakson will be speaking about his new book on leonardo da vinci. joining us now in the booktv set on the center of the festival, is journalist and author helen thorpe her new pest book just out -- is called the newcomers finding ref tiewj friendship and hope in an american classroom. now ms. thorpe before we get into that book, is there a relationship between your three books or -- a thread that connects them? >> yeah, absolutely. my first book was about undocumented students, growing up here families immigrated from mexico and people coming of this age and department have legal status. my second book was about -- women very longs serving in iraq and afghanistan trying to come

back home and that's a little bit like immigration because you're returning to your home country. but it's hard to come back. so it's a big transition as well. and many this case, i'm looking at you know refugee teenagers coming to this country and tryingou to learn english. in an english language acquisition classroom and struggling to figure out high school and america even as they're struggle to learn english. i think there's a thread there for sure, yeah. >> what is the high school that you chose? >> so i put myself in a classroom at south high school in denver, colorado. and that school has expertise welcoming refugee and immigrants a third foreign born two-thirds american. and it's just an incredible school because they've got power professionals who speak every language under the sun and they have a lot of been doing this for expee tees welcoming and immigrants, yeah.

>> what are the demographics of south is it a magnet school is it a public school? >> it's a public high school and it's a neighborhood high school but it's also the place that is designated whose school has been intruptd and a lot of foreign born kids they lived through war and their coming from war zones so theirir schooling interrupted by conflict and they've had some times flee their home country. the great thing that they do there is they -- they really have integrated school so that foreign born kids and american born kids become friends, and they serve on students senate to the. the kids are incredibly well integrated learning a lot from one with another which is great to see. is not necessarily a book about policy this is a book about people. and it's 22 kids how did choose them or did they chose you? >> i put them in beginner language classroom and 22 kids whone arrived that year just turned out to be a perfect map was global refugee crisis so if

there's a country like congo sending refugees here that classroom got four kids from the congo a country like burma also producing a lot of refugees they sent two student to the room. country like iraq and other country that had we're seeing a lot ofun refugee from they sent two students to the room so that room map the crisis but at an individual level where you could get to know people and really understand thend crisis not as a big thing that seems overwhelming but in a human way at a human scale. and kids were funny and hill lair and friendly delighted to be here. theyth were very thank hadful. they wanted to become friends with one another and they didn't have a common language that was funny to see. their attempt -- >> so what was day one like with kids who spoke -- e nearly 22 languages? >> day one was point yengt

because kids were soo scared and oklahomaed that rule was just total silent but by the end of the year trajectory of learning at a fast curve by the end of the year room pfts filled with sound and noise and happiness, and kids were flirting flirtinge another making friends and having is sleepovers at each other's homes. the kids were getting each other high-fives they were -- you know one young man asked another girl to marry him. [laughter] so doing things that teenagers do. so teacher noticed that kids were having trouble sitting in and figuring out america he had actually found a mentor for each of his students from the rest of the room and invited mentorses to have lunch with his kids so you saw -- you know, a very high achieving pair of iraqi twins who were in -- the advance placement classes come to have lunch with newly

arrived students from iraq. and you saw kids who spoke swahili serving to come have lunch with kids who spoke, so there was a lot of integration by the teacher and guidance counselor to help kids make friends and integrate and amazingly the newcomers of they're called in the school started serving on students sthat by year two started playing soccer. one of thein kids even his first year began -- running on the track team and winning a lot ofea medals. so he became a hero in the high school. he was from -- all of the students were in snapchat bragging about him and meldings he was anding so exciting to see kids succeed in this kind of way.. : did they spend all day eddy williams who was a teacher, correct? >> yeah. did they spend all day in one with clm or integrate into other

classrooms as well? >> to emphasis english they have three class periods with eddy williams teaching them english and then they have science and matz and art, and gym. and eddy wems was extraordinary teacher his background, his mom is latina and fluent in english and? spanish but he know what is it is like to learn a new language and his mom has been english language acquisition classes as a child so he was sensitive to what that experience was like and he wanted his kids to feel at home in his room. >> how did you get access? >> when i showed up right before school started the principal said i read your first book, just like us, i know you're very sensitive and wrote about undocumented students you're welcome to spend as much time you want in any room in this high school so -- that was amaze. but i think really the first book paved the way. >> did the parents have issue ors with you being there?

so i sent letters loam to all of the parents they invited me to their home i actually quickly began sharing meals to iraqi family middle eastern feast they like to eat sit on the floor so we did that together. the family invited me home and i had meals with them. they have a habit of you eat out of one bowl -- it's a tradition so one bowl with three spoons in it and we share from the same bowl they explained to me this was a wayed of being hospitable but also traditionally ine, their cultura way to make sure you're not poisoned because if you're sharing from one bowl you can't fit poison in an old fashion habit with sounds funny and outlandish but i appreciate they werean teaching me about their custom share food the way they would at home. >>were there cultural problems with all of the new students coming in? >> one thing i saw happen some countries have a history of conflict so eat yoap ka can be

about in conflict and some students had had a little bit of an argument when they were supposed to be on stage together during culture fest, and they couldn't agree with about that because of soflt conflicts that they were having in their home country. but no for the most part students got along tremendously well and figureed they were sharing circumstances immigrating to that country and what that experience was like and had more in common than what divided them. fnlings who areos one or two tht you spent extra time to or gravitated towards? >> i was truck by two boys in the congo because they showed up and learning kuive was so fast. faster than anybody else but also started coming over to me and putting down his homework in front of me and figured out that was underutilized e resource and happy to do that i spent time with their family and then i federalled to the congo to

understand better the journey they had taken, you know, why they had to leave congo what they went to which i visited and then what their journey was like here. soy spent a lot of time request that family got to know two boys really well. >> newcomers is about people but there's a policy aspect what's the sat us of these 22 students today? >> so the 22 students -- for the most part they're refugee so they arrive with refugee status. but init all cases they have let friends ore family at home in their home countries of the country where is they been living. and they're wishingng that more people could come to this country as refugees they're hoping that in the future, its united states will admit a greater number of refugees. how did you end up in devin? >> well, i was in denver for love movied to denver to get merdes and it has been a great home i got to launch my book there this week and cover bock store. i got a warm outpouring of

support which was wonderful to see. >> for six years you had a second job. rs>> i did, i was first lady of colorado which my then husband -- was serving as governor he's still governor but i'm no longer deash >> john. that was a joy it was really a joy.it yeah. incredible experience. >> did that help you get into south high school do you think? >> it probably did it also helped me get used to public stage so i'm better at public speaking that kind of thing as a result also. yeah.d >> helen thorpe when it comes to current immigration policy, current discussion and national discussion we're having on immigration, did these students pay attention to that? >> they fade attention a lot. they were confused by our election schedule and we were havinge primaries they kept thinking general election had happened and i had to explain to them no we have a long process here.. but they were very sophisticated in their understanding of their own treatment in the yeedz and how refugees were maybe

misunderstood and think wanted to explain their stories they wanted to say, you know we're very happy to be here. we have no animosity towards americans in our home country like in iraq. those families had helped americans during the invasion they really wanted people to know that.o >> what did they not like about the senate >> the only thing they didn't like sometimes they were cold like in denver it was snowing. and they wrnght used to that and never worn winter coats before and they came from a warm country. number one complaingt? >> did all 22 graduate? >> now in mainstream classes i watched them read to kill a mockingbird that was incredible feet to see. >> do you plan on following up request this group? >> i think we're friends for life and bonded over experience of their talent learning english. and first year here. >> helen thorpe newest book is called the newcomers finding refuge friendship, and hope, in

an f classroom. thank you. >> booktv live conch the miami book fair now continues, we're going to go back into chapman hall, here on the keamps of miami-dade college, and best selling biographer, and head of the as pen institute walter isakson will be talking about his latest book it's on leonardo da vinci, a reminder you can follow booktv on social media. at booktv is our handle, and we're on facebook, instagram, and twitter. this is beak tv's live coverage in miami. [inaudible conversations]

[inaudible conversations] good afternoon. ladies and gentlemen, please take your seats. we're about to begin the next session. wonderful good afternoon to everyone and qk to o miami book fair as if i look out -- i see many. of you who have been with us all morning. and i'm sure there are had many who have been with us since last

sunday who own od the fair request us last sunday? wonderful. i amm malu harris truly it is a pleasure to welcome you to miami book fair, 2017, and as other guests are coming in, let me also pay a special welcome as always convey our gratitude toll the circle of friends of miami book fair. and with your support, we are able to continue this oustanding cultural and literary event for the community. and also for the visitors that come from near and far for this book fair during the month of november. as you may know the book fair is really year round. so i hope that you do visit us all year long, but particularly or for this 7-day extravaganza of wonderful arts book sellers, presenters, chefs, and had many

other literary enthusiasts so thank you for being here. i also wants to at this time ask as always that you silence your devices so that we can all enjoy the program. and so to help me introduce our speaker, please help me to welcome javier general counsel motors. javier. [applause] of course miami book fair we're very pleased to have you here. south motors is a family company around for 60 years to treat heevery customer like family another commitment at the family made from the very beginning. was the commitment to give back to the community. through events such as this. this is u our pleasure to have someone like walter isakson here. it is a --

pleasure to have someone of his magnitude and of his knowledge and wealth of the experience to have someone h like you here. my notes are blanking out. walter is the university professor of history at two lane, a former ceo of the aspen institute, chairman of cnn, and managerring editor of "time" magazine. he's the author of the innovators how a group of hack ers created a digital resolution a buying if i, jobs and ion seen and had his university benjamin franklin and walter brings to life leonardo da vinci for us without further adieu walter. [applause] thank you eduardo thank you all

from the mike book fair i've been here for every bock and it is always a great pleasure to be in this city. one reason it is great to be in miami is like other city of this world it is now become a mix of very creative people with a tolerance for all sorts of people and that was what made leonardo da vinci so creative. i've written about a lot of smart people and at a certain point it occurs to me that smart people are a dime a dozen. they don't usually amount to much. right? it takes being innovative imaginative and creative and one recipe for that is being able to stand at the intersection of arts and sciences to love both the humanities and engineering. i remember watching steve jobs gives us product presentation.

he would always end with that street sign of the liberal arts meeting technology. and say that's where creativity lies. and i thought yeah that's what ben franklin did, even einstein would pull out his violin and play mozart when he was having trouble with his equation saying that music had and art help connect him to the spirit of the cosmos and the harmony of the fear. t but the ultimate of that and the person i decided to be the capstone of a series of books about createssivety and how to achieve is it lowe that are doe da vinci then he had the great good turn to be born out-of-wedlock. had he born he would be a notary like a great grandfather -- leonardo loved as he grew up in

a tiny swirl is lag to blend, fantasy and reality, he loved to x,ink out of the box. he loved to do things different all of the thing use do not want this your notary. but it did help him become a creative art whois loved pattern of nature and also it meant he one of the to universities oren schools to have his head crammed filled with this of the middle ages until he got to o become what he called a disciple of experience. meaning he did experiments he always questioned what whatevere was told and -- decided he wasue going po to see if it was right. he wasn't going to risk accept or o receive wisdom soviet union

as a little kid those streams running down to the arno he put rocks in them and see how water rippled and swirl of water becomes one of the many patterns in nature that become his passion. and we see it throughout his life.y he asked why is the sky blue and when birdd takes off, its wings go up faster or down faster? but leonardo -- unlike us -- never outgrew his wonder years. he was the most insashably curious person in history and that is key number one to his creativity we can see in his notebooks every week -- weird questions he decided he needed to know, not just why is the sky blue. but why does water swirl the way it does when it goes into a

basin or o o pond. or o -- what is size of the sun and how would you measure it and my favorite what does the tong of a woodpecker look like? i have to imagine describe the tongue of the woodpecker why even care and how would you even know open up a woodpecker but that'sde leonardo. is struck as curiosity and tried to learn everything by age 12 his father brings him to the town like town i've been talking about, one of those createssive cities in which all sorts of people work together. leonardo was lucky he was born the same year that gutenberg opened his print shop and spread itas to florence. so in his notebooks we see leonardo say go down to bridge and buy translation of euclid or

get bock and all he wanted to learn and constant and noble saw that year he was born so people coming from the arab are world bringing mathematic and leonardo is quite a misfit. besides being ill legitimate he's left-handed, he's gay he's a vegetarian he's a bit of a hair tick and they love hill in florence it was under lorenzo and the family one of those places with people of diverse backgrounds all fit in a live and let live place. leonardo worked in a workshop of andrej about -- people call it was a an artist studio but another secret to leonardo he loved to do everything look at the famous you know the there and what he builds on top of the ball on

there and when he was a young apprentice and helped soughter the copper ball and he draws all of the mechanisms they use to put it on top of the dome. it is the ultimate the connection that he makes his whole life between art and science. between bowty and engineering. among things they do is pageant and play and leonardo loves them he's a good looking kid and kind of proud of how good looking he is. we know how good looking he is. he did a statue of david a young 12-year-old david. and the young 12-year-old leonardo is right there in the center catch by somebody else in the workshop pose for david. and in the plays they do, they do costume and one of leonardo first sketches etching silver

point on the left the warrior another -- but he's doing it as a set of costumes for the visit of the dukebu of malon lowe that are de did drawing on the left but they mix fantasy and reality dragons had also the wings of a bat that aix scientifically accurate and everywhere in it those curl and swirls that leonardo like he did it for his engineering the curl and the i swirls. he sort off payments people say didn't he invent the helicopter, this drawing here the famous draw. orpe yeah, except for it was doe too for a play. by one of the plays that they

produced because sometimes we don't fox on the fact that producing play and the pageant was a big job back then they didn't have tv. they didn't have movies so there were pageants and plays and leonardo loved it because it blurred line between fantasy and reality. and in fact, he so much loves blurring that line between fantasy and reality that once he does drawings like thiss a helicopter, he decided maybe i'll make a real flying machine so as you know for a long pert of his life he's trying to design flying machines. and he makes great gliderrer he also can never make a manpowerred flying machine that will off so he studied birds in flight of birds to figure out why they have a different weight rash wroa to their muscles realizes it is impossible. another small listens from leonardo. sometimes ---- you should try to do the impossible so at least you'll find out why it can't be done.

two he is a painter and such a good painter that the legend is he got so awed by him that he decide not to do it again but let him handle painting manager this studioec and this baptism f christ we see a pattern we'll see throughout leonardo's life when he's very young, he does most of the painting. but leonardo did does that riff jordan comings from ancient of time and flowing into the bodies -- and in this case literally as pulls water over jesus, and if you look carefully, and i thank simon my publisher because they use such high quality paper that you can see the color reproduction if you look at the ripples next to ankle of jesus -- you see how scientifically

accurate it is that kid imho loves that rippling water had to turn it into engineer hadding and into art but most importantly in his notebooks around that time e leonardo -- is saying that goal of a painter should also be to express the interim motion through outward expression and so angel on far left is e leonardo one next to him baroque did and leonardo angel a deep emotion as we see the twist of the neck and expression of the face. people express art and other emotions so one that he painted next to him -- about the only expression on that angel face is you can see how dide i get here next to ths far more beautiful angel.

and the florence and three quarters profile with a river again coming down and connecting us to nature. connecting from the and chengt mountains the river curving the way he had loved curl into blood of humanning connecting us to the world. thishu is not the mona lisa with expression in the river he wouldn't pay until the evened his life. doing a lot more agnat and saying it is a shame he wasted his time doing all of this math and geology and science and

anatomy because he could have painted more paintings well that's true. but if he hngt done pattern of nature and p enriched about beig curious about everything i don't think he would have gotten to the mona lisa which is the culmination of a lifetime spent finding pattern of nature. he also used his theatrical knowledge to do paintings with maji done when he was yng and in florence, we don't just see a scene. we see that swirl he loves. a curving spiral -- and it's a drama, it's a staged drama -- in perspective as if it were on a stage with the second king offering the gift at very bottom swelling up to the first king already bowing down -- andhe each person in the spiral expression is reflect i-of the

person before them. it was very complicatedded and leonardo doesn't finish the paint and that happens to leonardo often. he puts things aside. flying machines that don't fly, tanks that don't roll. paintings and gives to a man about to discover america, at the time and i don't think he just gaveer up on painting. but i a think he always thought that maybe he would learn more andd could apply yet another brush belt whether it was mona lisa which he kept for 16 years or -- admiration of the he gives to friends towh hold for him and he never fully gets become to it and painting he can around the same time in the wiltedderness and it's unfinished but you can see that about 20, 30 years later after you put the painting aside, he does more agnatny

experiment and dissect corporation and gets it right in his anatomy drawing on far right here and he goes back to his jerome painting and redoes neck muscles of that and so qhaw what you see is somebody who makes hill a bad note reis and sometimes let the perfect be the neeflt good. like steve jobs who wouldn't shipme original macintosh becaue a circuit board inside wasn't pretty and so they held it up until they could make the circuit board that nobody would ever see, pretty like wise, leonardo often is hold on to his drawing and saysly learn something more i'll be able to make it better. the way i understood that but was not bying looking at the painting which people writtenning so brilliantly,

uh-uh but i use his notebooks -- i didn't realize 20 years ago when i was wondering arranged my wife studied in florence art history and we saw paints and go to italy quite a bit but i was stumbling across in italy his notebook pages and i realized that that was the clue to how his mind danced around different subjects just take a simple -- not simple but a page like this. first of all marvel how goods of a technology paper is. for the storage and retrieval of information. 500 years later, we can still see it. 50 years from now your facebook post and your tweets fortunately are not going to be reare treefable. but paper it is really good the operating system never goes out. so -- in the center left you see that warrior that he's always u draw. but you see a tree.

trunk branching into the torso of the warrior, as leonardo's mind goes through something he's been thinking about which is the analogy between nature and human. and especially what we can call leonardo's law of branching which is when there's a branch of a tree, a branch, the cross section of b the area of the branch toalingses up to the trunk and that's true of rivers and tributary it is true of our honoree so leonardo is making those connection and top left he's making the connections between the swirls of water he loves and curls of hair. he writes about curls of hair have the same spiral form and by the way he even makes stab at matte of the equation. as for math he's always trying to transform one shape into -- a different shape but with the same area.

a problem to make it the same area using circle using a ruler and and chengt math math call puzzle that's not actually totally soable because it is a very irrational number but leonardoto trieses to throughout his life -- the square the circle. you can see it and writing to left to right because he taught himself to write and he's a left hander and doesn't want to smudge and you see the list of things he wants to learn that we -- qeerd things like inflate the lung of a pig and see whether they expand in length as much width you got to be kidding but he's turning 30 when he does this. at bottom left is a recipe for using husk of certain types of thuts and boil them in oil medical record --

in order to make a blondish hair dye. and suddenly you say man the guy is human kind of vein about his appearance. thoseth beautiful curly locks ad he's worried about going gray. [laughter] that's our leonardo around that time too he finds the companion of his life a nickname for the little devil. siali able to be a petty thief and everything else that leonardo likes him and that's how he gets his nickname so tht is like we can watch him with his beautiful curly hair, age and see hill in the notebooks as part of leonardo's life. at that period of turning 30 maybe starting to turn gray, his father notarizedded the contracts and two of the paintings he hasn't yet in st. overroam so you can kind of imagine that maybe it was tile

to move on. time leave wonderful florence. and when he does is he goes as part of a cultural dell gigs to millan because florence was not a great military power. he was even able to lose battles to pisa which was probably hard to do -- but they have a lot of influence because what you night call we might --ar call soft power. it would send engineer and artist to do things like the 15 chapel or build buildings and in 148282 there's a big delegation that goes from florence to millan sent bit family to the duke of millan that is led by a playwright and a poet, and it has an architect artist and engineers, and of all things lee mar doe goes as a u musician. because he does everything

especially because he loves theater and invented musical instrument like a violin but highway made it in shape of a horse's head so bring it as a gift as part of that cultural delegation. at just a painter he's blocked on last couple of paintings he's done so -- writes one of the coolest job application letters in history. toe the duke of millan and it's 11 paragraphs long. and the first ten paragraphs al about engineering and science, he saysen i can make great weapons of war. including large cross bow he says i can build great buildings to divert rivers. and it's only in the 11th paragraph almost as an

afterthought when he says -- i can also paint. as wells as any person of course he can but he revels in fact when he guess to millan he eventually earns a position as engineer and painter to the duke of millan. and he works on project collaboratively because once again i want to emphasize that createssivety is a team sport. innovation cools from collaboration. we think of leonardo as going to someones in the castle and maybe doing his great drawing like a man or his painting but, in fact, he worked with a lot of other people especially in the court of millan. his close friend the great math he does draw for devine proportion and he gets a feel for it useful in art. he also works with architects in

engineers, and his first real big thing that he does is work with three or four friends on helping fix up the millan cathedral like steever steve jobs leonardo believed that simplicity was a soul of beauty. as you're looking you're probably thinking this is not the soul of beauty. this is a gothic monstrosity, but lee that are dean his friend are asked to help design this -- i can't quite show it but little lantern tower on top that comes up with a simple design of a square, and as you can tell the authorities in millan don't build it they build a monstrosity instead but in working on it, lee mar doe has become very close friends with three or four other architects and nrmings most notably --

[inaudible conversations] the cool thing is -- he painted a picture of the two of them together that's him on the right. round face holding -- leonardo on the left and purple tunic and notebook in front of him going from right to left, though, he was always said to have had a muscular well built wellay proportioned athletic boy that chiseled face. and of course the wonderful flowing curly locks of blond or maybe dyed blond hair. and it should be proportional to a human. he wants to connect the human to

nature also to the spirit. and the renaissance as you know was partly a rebirth of classical knowledge. you read you know that rediscovery rei is part of the renaissance well for his friends and leonardo there was a man you script that had just been rediscovered by the the ancient roman architect -- and it writes about how buildings especially churches and temples should reflect the proportions of a human and it is page after page line after line of the exact proportions of the human body. which leonardo will say as they sayy here's proportion -- one thing i had discovered in leonardo notebook is that -- ever since his childhood he doesn't accept received wisdom he's a design of his own experiment so what he does in

page after page of his notebook is due proportion working with assistance the measure to the ten to cheekbone to nose to breast sitting, standing running dozens and dozens hundreds of proportions that he does. with hiss friends he's geeking out totally obsessive on issue of squaring the circle. as page after page ways to do squares and circle yet all of the same area until having done they go down to pavia a town very close to millan. where they're building a cathedral that is more to their liking a very simple cathedral, and they all decide to go to the castle and look at the man ewe discriminate there because there's the copy of the manuscript of the trvia but

they're going illustrate man and we know leonardo but his friends also do it. there it is the man -- in proportion in the circle in the square, in the -- church design is. all sitting according to the proportions of the the truvia we see the drawings -- and who had a nice dinner where they were doing it and had came lee mar doe brought his companion who spilled wine on the table we know from a notebook so we can imagine these guys doing it. looking at -- hoping these unspill wine and then leonardo he does his version. yeah right as you look at leonardo the man -- can see it is a work of brilliant silence and puts it sideways to be in the measurement and everything in there is scientifically

proportion according to to the measurements leonardo made and he gets it exactly accurate. and he said that the naval should be the center of the earth but implies that the genital are center of creation so leonardo puts a circle and square on the same base. but as you can see the circle is going up a little bit higher so naval is at exact center of the circle genitals are the center of the square, and circle goes up and he's squaring the circle. making them the same area. besidinginging being a work of great science and great math it is a work of unbelievable art. unnecessary beauty see his friends are doing stick figures there's leonardo with his left-handed cross hatching making it -- awesomely beautiful.

i went to the fourth floor in venice where they keep it in storming because it can't be exposed to light. my wife and i and translator who was working with me we had talkedse them into showing it to us if you with look at the dust jacket and author picture in the back there i am leaning over having walked up four flights of stairs in july in venice in air-conditioning builds so there's a threat if i drop some sweat under this picture -- 500 yearssw from now people will be saying i wonder what leonardo meant by that -- so i was very careful. but you see the shortly in the line he knew exactly what he was doing. it's that sketch -- et right in the center of the naval there. and you get a chill almost because you feel you're in the presence of the hand of the master. and then you look at the face that face starings at you we

motion and intensity as you stare at it -- mind should go back to things you've seen about leonardo, and look at that picture to extent is leonardo drawing himself substantial doubting naked spread eagle and in the earth in cosmo in the center of creation asking how do i fit in? this is what makes it the greatestst drawing connecting te art -- the sciences, the humanities, and the spirit all in the curious mind saying what am i doing here. how do i -- fit in? he does throughout his time atom call drawings and not just great -- of great anatomy they also

combine art and science. the visual display of information is somebody who thought they could do weaponry thisd is a map of imola. he -- and nicole and his friend and the war lord all spend the winter of 1502 a few months in amola what would be a great scene in a movie if i may say as leonardo realizes that greatest weapon of war is understanding where you are, and he paces off street with -- able tods an aerial view even though there's no airplane or balloon or drones and it looks like a current map you would have of a military map. but if you read matt's when he says -- up with of his great weapons was surprise. he always u knew where he have and where enemy was, and what terrain was better than any adversary and all of this is part of it and he even cook up a theme buzz leonardo loves

quarter in flow since he was a little boy of diverting the so that florence qowld go right to the sea. why this is suddenly after america and christopher columbus have become important to be a sea port. if you're going to be part of the age of exploration also if you can't be in military you can divert river. so you can sort of starve them out. and in the theater come together in this painting in millan he does, of course, last supper and -- one that is noticeable it is work of a theater designer as if jesus is saying all right everybody -- get on this side of the table if

yowpght to be o in the picture. correct all going to vanishing point upon the forehead of jesus. outward you can see them radiate out but walls go back and accelerate perspective way, why? well imagine look on stage here and scenery that you imagine leonardo would have done the scenery comes in that way -- to make it look deeper. it's not just a moment many time buter art critic say it is eerie because it is a frozen moment not to me. itit feels like a sequential dra narrative drama had monks come in from the right -- jesus saying -- one of you shall betray me. you see it rippling out and like water away and first group of

apostle on side are reacting with this and next part of the narrative is me lord or he who will betray you and almost seems to bounce back the way ripples do as jesus says -- see that -- and you see there on the left, our left dipping his hand and then final narrative goes on and there's reaching for wine and even in a spill paint we get a dramatic narrative and curious things about it, and shadow on coming from a back window. and did he get it wrong. how could he have messedded that up -- and d then you go visit the

monastery and you go into the room where it is an you marvel at the picture and look up to your left and then the real room is the only window and you realized that it is a light coming in midday from that window that leonardo is using to light the right wall of the painting and the table with a shadow from it directly. that science of art pane engineering also came together very very famously a few days ago. i did not know it was going on sale but i went to sigh it in london as you know on sale in kristys. call reason i was mesmerized by it shows leonardo blurs lines

knowing because he studied optics that we don't see in a that sharp line because we have two eye and our retina, see it very point of the retina so there's nothing really sharp about the line. things get closer to you they get is happenner look at curl of jesus so spirals that leonardo loved in the light luster and as it gets to his chest, they get a little bit clear and then there's tay right hand. and it is sharply something they said maybe he didn't paint the whole thing because he wouldn't have painted a hand that sharp. as i look at notebook he's writing on perpghtive and he talks about perspective like in the last syrup and how distance perspective warnings with how you do artificial perspective in a big painting like last supper but he has a section called acuity, a sharpness perspective and he writes about how

is at a distance it's not perfectly easy to see. it is a focal point of our line so lines are sharp in doing it that way with the sharpness, he's making it look like the hand is coming out off the panel to bless us. it is accurate with inclusion on bottom right oftt that orb buts there's something strange about it if you think of a lens or solid crystal -- even a bottle of water i guess and you think of your hand behind it like this or whatever --

you can imagine you can see it is distorted inverted like any lens. and yet -- there if you look in my book is the high quality reproduction or i went to see it and look very carefully there is not the tiniest bit of distortion. in jesus' -- why is that? it could be he just didn't e know that's ridiculous even as a kid he's doing that billion and light waves hit curvee objects and then doing lenses and studying crystal for isabella so we know he knows. it could be heis knows that -- you think it will be too distracting with a beautiful picture and all of a sudden words are office and people will be distracted so he doesn't do it. maybe. other thing it is salvador showing miraculous quality he's showing a miracle that nothing hend touches is ever distorted good thing about leonardo is you

can be your own -- thinker of the mysteries and figure out what was in his head. he was not very close to michael angelo, in fact, when michael angelo statue of daifd is done he's on committee to figure out where to put it and leonardo wants it put under arches but you can see in his notebook he also draws the statue if you look carefully that is what leonardo calls -- [inaudible conversations] a decent ornament i.e. a covering up genital. now, this is odd because leonardo was not good about nudity he has sketches but something about michael angelo and so the first ho years that david is gleyed it has a brass fig leaf ornament cover it up because lee mar doe wanted it that way.

one thing he does is see pattern across nature as i said and this from his heart drawings he dissected human art and pigs hearts that were still beating because his had gun to figure out how do i paint whatever it may be but being leonardo it deinvolves into curiosity but curiosity sake and he wants to know everything so dissecting heart and he discovers a major discovery in science is how heart valve works people thought it pushes valve open and pressure from heart and pushes it closes and on it page on the left leonardo is saying no that would crumple it. what happens is when fluid moves from size chamber to smaller world it creates a spiral.

thee swirls of quarter that heo loved he says it is by swirling water it spreads out the membrane and that's why the heart valve membrane spreads out and closes even there he has a glass device that he is shown that you can use to prove this and indeed he's right that's how even our art pcial heart valve now work because of this.is but to think about leonardo is every now and then you're remindinged he's human he's doing more and more drawings doing another cross section on the bottom. and then he gets distracted and mind wonders and he draws with a heart inside of hmm but i think is kind of sweet. ands it reminds us yet again he human the guy is but in all of his there's always a connection of art and science. it's always the beauty of how we

fitnn in to creation. and it always has from his earliest drawing to the end this wonderful pattern of nature like the quarter flowing into the bowl t and the pond and causing swirls the water going past the obstacle in coming swirls when he was a kid and when he's diverting the river in middle age or trying to, and as an old man looking at the swirl of water it all comes together in one of the greatest picture was done on the left you see him dissect humane to discover that very center of the rett retina the cone see black and white detail and he goes from his own experiment? judgment and -- that edges of the retina tend to see color and shadows better. he also dissects human face so he knows every muscle and every shall it touches human lips -- and every nerve that controls

every muscle. makes all sorts of discoveries about muscle of is will and way cher shaped even ones that we could have discovered had had we withtakenned our wonder years of being curious and being observant is such as bottom lip is muscle on its own you be pout it and move it top is not if you can't pout it alone because it is connected with other muscles. i see people trying it. if you're with on c-span you're nowing looking ridiculous wait nlg you get home do to in front of are mirror who you're alone. but all of that knowledge despite what the said about being a waste of time i think culminate of course from the greatest smile ever painted. but you see the river coming from time connecting to roads of

civilization and then to us as humans how do we fit in? but if you want you look at the eyes they're amazing. but start with the lips. of years he spent putting layer after layer of the tiniest brush strokes of glaze oil which is the tiniest -- pigment in it because light will go down to primer coat and then down, and he knows he can make it look intraiskt. as he does the lips -- he gets the muscles and the movement and shadow exactly right. but he also -- makes it so that tiniest black and white details on our right and especially right go straight so if you're staring at corner of the lips closeup the smile is elusive kind of disappears on you. but back to forehead or chin or cheek -- suddenly the lights up again

because you're seeing it with a different part of your eye in a so -- she's somebody who has emotional reaction -- but they change and as our emotion changes, she seems to interact with us as if it is augmented reality it is a deep mystery of emotions being expressed by facial and other gestures and changing interactively with it. that's why among many other things, it is a great connection of art to science and a great masterpiece.in he brings it with them after 16 years to france why he's dying. his patron is france is the first, gives a them a manner hoe next to the she shatto by st. johnhn baptist still perfect them when i did einstein i

looked at thehe last notebook faming to see what was he doing that night in princeton when his burst he knows he's dying. he does two-thirds of a page of equation even though he's dying he still trying to get us a step closer to the unified theory that will connect electromagnetism to i gravity en though he knows he's not able to do it he's trying to do it. and leonardo on his last notebook page that we know of still trying to square the circle using trek of euclid with right angle and explains how maybe this will make a shape but then make a square and siring l with a chart in the middle showing him how to do it. but the very last plien -- pauses but he writes the soup o is getting cold you can imagine him -- up there in that bedroom with

sal and cook and rest of the entourage downstairs and he's still struggling to get us one step closer to spirit manifest in the laws of the universe. but the soup is getting cold. thank you all. thank you. thanks. [applause] thank you. thank you so much mr. isakson and audience if you would like to have a book autoimraffed, you may do so on the other side of the elevators. right on the floor thank you so much once more. >> thank you very much.