>> wednesday night on american history tv in primetime. a look at the 70th anniversary of the 1947 hollywood blacklist hearings. american history tv in primetime all this week at 8:00 p.m. eastern on c-span3. now, jonathan i was counting the life of politics and sports legend, and ali. from the conference in nashville. this is 40 minutes. >> good morning everyone. you for coming and welcome to the 29 festival of books. i'm andrew and it is my great pleasure to have opportunity to introduce jonathan egg this morning, and other that i really

admire and he is here this morning to talk about his new book and a new biography of mohammed ali. i understand this is his only third stop. for he speaks i've been asked to mention a few things. first, the book possible,a of course, is pretty but if you would like to contribute to the cause you can do that at the headquarters for the book possible outside ort online and also i reminded after his remarks he will be heading over to the signing tent which is next to the tent out on the main plaza so you can have him sign your bookrn over there. jonathan's regard is one of the top writers of narrative nonfiction which is my favorite style. it's a fantastic author and best-selling book including two that i have read on lou gehrig and jackie robinson. jonathan is written for "the new york times", theac new yorker, esquire in "the washington post" today he is a contributing writer for "the wall street journal". his biography of commonality is

the most anticipated book of the fall is you have checked out the reviews it's probably the most highly rated book of the fall term as well. there is always a national connection. i don't know if you mentioned these points but i wanted to say that commonalities widow is a vanderbilt graduate and if you ever had a chance to meet at temple, the legendary coach of the [inaudible], he always told the story about after 1960 olympics, summer olympics, where caches clay was with wilma rudolph and after those in the mix caches clayit would come don to nashville in his peak convertible cadillac looking for wilma so jonathan, not sure if you drove down from chicago and a pink cadillac or flu but were excited to have you here and thank you for coming. [applause] >> thank you very much. i'm proud to be here. commonalities to say he was

introduced like that he would say thank you for that introduction you are not as dumb as you look. i don't do that and i wouldn't do that there is a lot that mohammed ali could get away with that i couldn't. we don't really have that much in common, as you might notice from looking at me although we both have unbelievably fast job you want to see it? want to see it again? that's an ali joke. it is important as a biographer to recognize that you do not have that much in common with your subject usually and the job ofsu a biographer is to understd that subject as best you can, often from a distance. that means really paid attention to the facts and doing research. i did 600 interviews and with 40200 interviews and i interviewed many of them over and over and i counted the number of times he was punched

and i worked statisticians to do that and work beach scientists to look at how the patches affected the speech rate and i delved as deeply as i could. my job is to help you understand a person's life and how that lifeta was shaped to understand how that light shaped us as a country and as a people and with all the one of the most interesting and important men of the 20 century, i would argue, it was a huge responsibility that i felt and the other really important piece that biographer has to keep in mind is empathy. you have to try to empathize with your subjects. it does mean you always celebrate him or excuse him in the job is not to glorify or not to pick him up to begin with but not to knock them down either but to always have empathy for your subjects. i'd like to talk about the process and what i've learned along the way and the challengec that i face. dick gregory, social activist and comedian who does best way said to me when i interviewed him he said there is no point in

book white boy, as he said to me, no point in writing this book if you're not can be able to explain to me and asked me to your readers how a black kid growing up in jim crow louisville felt like he could be special. what made you thank you could go around calling itself the greatest of all time. when america said he was inferior andte a second-class citizen and the loss, not just the people around him but the losses of two. you will have to make me and help your readers understand what made this kid think he could be different. that like a great challenge for me asth i began this quest of fr and half years getting to know ali and try to meet ali and i began this one was still alive and i'd like to take you on the journey. one of the first things i did was those who invest some of the older folks and in the beginning of the process of balance of reading all material and interview people might not be

around much longer i began with ali second wife who happen to come to chicago a lot and she was known as belinda, 17 years old when she married ali and she now goes by [inaudible] ali and she came from chicago a lot and she appeared the sniper movie premiere and she grew up in chicago and now lives in florida and i showed up at this movie premiere and i said i'm writing mohammed ali's biography and i like to you. she looked at me like who are you andnd gave you permission to write his biography. the answer of course was nobody but i like the to talk to me anyway. again, there is a sense of response ability that biographer feels. i'm taking his life in my hands he didn't answer to. but i'm going for it anyway and i explained to her that i just wanted to do this right and give them the kind of biography he deserves. not another lovefest or not another book that makes much the same but something that shows how importantes and how importat

he was. you were married with him from the vietnam protest through all the joe frazier rights and i need you to tell me what it's like too be married to this man. she said okay, how much will you pay me? i get that a lot in the boxing world. this is ali's brother and i called them up a few times and he wouldn't answer or talk to me and i said one question. one question for you. not talking to hellish payment. just tell me the name of your dogs name. he said $1000. y said i will not tell you without english give me a thousand's dollars. i said i don't pay for interviews but i'm very persistent so you can ask your wife. in boxing they say you're fighting above your weight when you're just like my wife is an impressive woman and the fact that you got with me tell you how persistent i am and that is what they would say. as i set out on this quest to

understand his life and this is a home where ali grew up and he told me that ali used to stand in the cracks houses there on the right and challenge him to throw rocks at him and see if he could hit them. not much room to dodge and i measured it. 72 inches between 7 the two hous and i wanted to write the view of ali's window the next house over. 72 inches away. stand in the crack and have challenges brother to the rocks at him. some people would say that for the reasons he became quick at avoiding punches they also learned his wife that he was dyslexic. he was never able to read wellin school and that's one of the reasons why he became a class clown. i also learned that his father was abusive, alcoholic, running around with a lot of women and ali came from difficult circumstances. he is not poor and this was a fairly middle-class neighborhood compared to most boxers who came

out of poverty but this was the block where he grew up with school teachers and undertakers in all african american of course but nevertheless he saw an opportunity around him and he saw his biggest opportunity to escape from this and find a way out when he was 12 years old and how many people know the story of ali stolen bicycle? most people have heard that ali had his bicycle stolen and this happens to be one of those great legends that are not true. so often when i dive into these things [inaudible] did not put his arm around jackie robinson in 1947. he was writing a $50 with, big deal, and it starts to rain any ducks into an auditorium to escape the rain comes out as bicycles. he goes looking for a police officer and he finds one in the basement of a gym tells him that his bike is stolen and he'll beat up to get in the police officer says do you fight? ali's cash is clear this time

and he says no, i'm tough and police officer said why don't you come learned about. he falls in love with it and he transfixed by the sites in the gym not just the heavy bags in this beanbag split something else important and there were black kids and white kids fighting in the ring together in their pockets punching white kids and you did not do that w n america in the 1950s and if you did it you got in trouble and you could be arrested for far less than that and ali saw this and began to rewire his brain in a crazy way and said what else can i do and what else can we get away with began taking boxing very seriously. there's another myth and have you heardri about holly used to race the bus to school but one of the things i learned from robert caro, the great lgb biographer and what was it like to be in the room with your

subject and you ask it over and over again so i would ask ali's classmates what was it like to be on the bus when ali was racing and i asked it over and over three or four people it was a making sense to me like i couldn't quite picture it in one of the guys is something about me was his friend said it was a city bus and the pretenses tried to get to school and it hit me, i called owen and you said it was a city bus. doesn't a city bus stop a lot and i almost every block said yeah, so ali was racing the bus ticket stopping right? and he said yeah, plus we got off at chestnut in transferred and he would wait with us for the next bus. so was he really racing the bus i asked. he said no, he was just trying to entertain us and try to remind us all that he was a big shot boxer wanted to be famous. he didn't want to be faster than the bus.

this is one of those key moments provider for when you start to say okay, i get this guy now. he wants to box was great but he also does attention and now i'm trying to get to know ali a little bit. this is the gym where he trained and where he found joe martin in the basement and he not only would train there for when he got done he go to another gym and -- joe martin was white police officer and he is not arresting black people but helping black kids and something new, rewiring the brain what he's been taught growing up he also finds a black trainer and when you done training with joe martin he works hard and goes and trains with fred stoner and another gym and by 1960 by the time he's a senior in high school use the olympic lightweight champion. he comes back to central high school and he's a hero. he's the toast of the town. he is feeling almost every class in part because he's dyslexic in part because you got boxing all

the time they decide to pass them in the said someday this kid will be famous and i don't want to be remembered as the principal flunked the champ and he discovered that he loves teattention. in the olympics in 1960 which was described beautifully and date of david merritt's book ali becomes the mayor of the lipid filtered everyone from every country wants their picture taken with this guy because he is a charm, charisma and he realizes that being outspoken and being loud mouth and his first nickname was the louisville lip that is good for his career and getting more attention and bigger fightss and making more money and less money, too. he talked all the time about how many catalogs he would own and how the different shades of the rainbow and this attitude standing up and making himself known and make himself heard is helping him get bigger fights and by 1964 he gets his first shot at the heavyweight championship against the sky, sonny lifted, the biggest, baddest, meanest man on earth and heavyweight champion was knocked out his last opponent in a matter of seconds and ali is

perhaps more unpopular than a sonny lifted, he is a criminal record and his autobiography is the champ the no one wanted. he is a very unpopular man and ali is more unpopular because of my kid is so unsportsmanlike and bragging about himself is seenms as repulsive to most white americans. people are rooting for sonny and that's a new one for him. it's seen as this is the end of ali's career and there's no way he could beat lifton. but ali is something that lifton is not prepared for mss incredible speed. perhaps learn from dodging those rocks but also something that is given as a gift to him. he's so fast that he boxes like heavyweights for the box. heavyweight is to keep your hands up was hit hard this was a duck the pages but ali is so good you move out of the way and these punches glanced off or missing altogether. opponents get so frustrated tham

they can't get near him and that's exactly what happens to lifton. you see them during these giant punches and looking. early knockout and ali is gone for the punch is gone through the air and then there's that left jab almost as fast as mine is in the face and lifton is getting tired and mad in the matter he gets the harder the swings and the more he misses and by the 25th or sixth round you can see it, lifton is gone. he has no chance. he doesn't get off the stool at the end of this example he gives up the heavy chairmanship without being knocked down or be knocked out because to attorney is too much. what happens "after words" mark ali announces that he is no longer -- is a champion and king of the world but he says i told you on the greatest and by the way, i'm now a member of the nation of islam. not a question. christianity was a religion forced upon me and my people in

slavery in the name cassius clay might as well be a brand steered onto my flesh and i don't have to do that anymore. he makes us unbelievably important announcement that changes the world and changes the way people not only see black athletes but for people all over he says i don't have to do what you tell me to do. i don't have just say what you tell me to say and to be what you want me to be. i'm three. in 1964 those are fighting words. he was unpopular before for being on sports like he is way more unpopular now and soon after he announces he isar changing his name from cassius clay to mohammed ali a name given to him by the founder of the nation of islam, and in almost every picture of ali in the 60s was and his brother is in the picture and he's always hanging around his big brother. that's elijah mohammed in the middle.th

ali joined this group that is considered by the american government a threat to democracy and this is radical group and this isis not orthodox islam bua group that leaves black people in america are never going to be treated equally and there's there's no point in discussing integration and they can only force the wayth out to build thr own businesses to improve their lives and their health and eventually start their own country and america will be forced to give a segment of the united states to the nation of islam for black people to start their own country. ali grew up hearing something similar for his father who also was not a big fan of immigratin and thought black people were never going to be treated equally. ali will never be rich or anything because of the color of your skin. get used to it. ali believed what his father said. appeared to get used to it. he believed because he was different and because he was a boxer and he had this platformis

that america had to listen to what he said that he could fight that and joining the nation of islam gave him a platform to do that. dick gregory also pointed out that i never thought of is that when other black leaders in this country spoke when elijah mohammed or malcolm x, taking their word for filtered by the white media. "the new york times" decided which quotes to use. cbs news decided which clip to use but when mohammed ali stood in thehe center of the ring and said i am the greatest and i talk to a lot and a lot told me that i was going to win this fight and i will praise to elijah mohammed the whole world heard that and no one could edit him and that gave him a special platform that helps explain why he thought he could fight when a lot of other black athletes were forced to accept the deal does make the deal being you did your job, perform your sport kept her mouth shut. something that black athletes are beautiful today. ali did not thinkod he had to accept that and he paid for it.

he refused to fight in vietnam and was convicted of draft evasion and first he said i did not want to go. it's interesting to watch him evolve on this.lv we think of him now as being this objector and pessimist but first he said, take my tax dollars and go by all the bomber jets intake you want because i'm making money and i don't want to go. then he said his work is not fair to black people. black people are dying in disproportionate numbers are not even treated as equals in our own country so i should we fight for country that jesus like second-class citizens. then he said against my religion so he evolved as many people who are opposed to the vietnam war were but he paid a huge price for it, convicted, sentenced to five years in prison, banned from boxing. half years and loses millions of dollars in endorsements invite revenue and finally after threem and half years out of the ring gets his chance to come back and this is in any way the key

moment in ali's career as an athlete. he comes back against joe frazier, fighter of the century, the only time to heavyweights squared off in the ring and by now it's 1971 interviews on the number changed and most americans feel like the war was a mistake and we see that ali paid for his convictions he suffered and he was willing to take that he was willing to sacrifice for his belief whether you agree with him or not and had respect that. then gets put on his rear end by joe frazier in the 14th round, a vicious left hook and he was up in the second half and he said later he was unconscious on the way down in the ground will come up. he bounces right back up any positions that fight if he loses it has got to start fighting his way back to ad rematch fraser d was shot at heavyweight championship and this is when i thank you start to see americanh

became to show some respect because his toughness is now not in question and it used to be that he was thought to be so quick and pretty and talkative that he couldn't really fight that he wasn't a true champ but now people begin to admire his tenacity is nothing else and it still may not agree with his political opinion and is the 70s and the civil right movement is without the street and into the court and ali is becoming a popular figure. he's on johnny carson all the time is of years this guy who said he ate white people in that white people were the blue-eyed devils and he is still saying stuff like that but is also joking around with johnny carson and his this ability to charm us and it's almost possible to do. it's high school girlfriend that you cannot be admitted around ali. even those who went into the room thinking this is a draft dodging trader mf they couldn't resist the guy. he was so likable and when he starts fighting his way back,

stanley crouch said that ali in the 60s was a grizzly bear. he was wild in untamed and dangerous but by the 70s he's more like a circus. he still dangerous but he's fun and he's entertaining.al in the last act of his life which i went to talk about more perhaps he was a teddy bear and we all want to embrace it. he getsto his shot at heavyweigt champ began fighting george foreman in the year of all places and this becomes the fight for black pride to declare who's the biggest, top spot man on earth and don king. this bizarre spectacle in zaire under the dictator and no one has ever seen anything like this and ali is a much slower fighter now. i counted that he took 200,000 punches if your food is amateur fights in the sparring session but by this point in his career he is actually training to take those punches and having the

spine partners hit them as much as they can because he believes he can build up resistance and no one can knock him out if he builds up resistance. he's taking a punches and you'll be immune to a knockout and he left george foreman, the strong as man in the heavyweight boxing pound away at him until foreman's arms start to get tired and then ali begins to fight back. foreman told me to stop the cup here that he believes he was drugged for that fight. by his own manager. he gave $25000 cash to the referee to make sure is a fair fight and he found out later that all these people give more than $25000 so i called ali's manager and the door and said that he gave 25 to the rest and you guys give more and his manager said that's the ridiculous and stupid thing i heard and we only give 10000. [laughter] take it for what you believe.

he beats requirement and becomes a heavyweight champion again and elijah mohammed called him and saidag you had done it all year the champion and it'se time to retire. devote the rest of your life to your religion, your family and after this fight he divorces his wife and he marries veronica and it's time to stop but ali cannot stop. he keeps boxing and in those last yearsrs he bites another sx years and keeps getting slower and slower and takes more and more punches you can see the effect it is having on him. he begins to ask his friends if this is hurting me anything i'm getting brain-damaged and you can go on youtube and watch some of his videos and you can see how muchhi his speeches slowing down and how is beginning to slur his words but he's also a celebrity and he loves it and hg likes hanging around with sonny doing the tvs shows likes theth entourage and like when heik was little boy wo loved the tension. can't get enough of it. this goes on and continues to fight continues into the early '80s and finally in 1981 he

bites larry holmes and takes a terrible beating and fight one more time, this is again and loses his last fight and not the way he wanted to go out but he gets a third act and in the late '80s, early '90s, we forget about ali.im he disappears really pretty good higher than for $3000 to be your used car dealership and sign autographs and less to do. he always loved being around people and if he was bored to go stand in the middle of an intersection and see how long it would take people to notice it. then he did write some people from the intersection and got to lunch and got to dinner after that and maybe come to his next fight. couldn't get enough of people. if he couldn't sleep he'd call for a taxi and go to hospital and visit people in the hospital. these are things that people do not know about because he does love people but he disappeared and was depressed and in 1996 how many people remember watching this on tvv was marked as most amazing thing i've ever seen because no one knows the

light feel of the torch in atlanta and there's rumors that it might be a manner holyfield from atlanta and ali's number under name is not mentioned andh then it hit it off to pine the petition and he emerges in his white tracksuit and the crown doesn't roar. the ground is not applauded. it silent and then you hear an eddible gasp. it is ali.en then the chant goes up. ali. ali. ali. it is if we rediscovered him. we forgot him and we forgiven him and we forgiven all the horrible things he said and even those of us who thought he was a traitor for his stance on vietnam and you have to admit this guy took his punches and there he is with his handshaking and he can't quite like the torch and it looks like you set himself on fire in the flame keeps picking up his arm and were worried that he will not

pull it off to get the thing lit and the crowd begins to floor. in that moment ali is rediscovered. it's in that moment in the next day you can see from the press coverage that he becomes the teddy bear we want too put his our arms around him. i would argue we don't want to remember him as a taper. and remember him for the warrior that he was. it's great that he was willingnd to do this and let us see him suffering to let us see what this disease what parkinson's and always purchase had done to him but that is not he really wass and not why he matters today. one of the things we needed to do working on this book was not only interviews wife, brothers, all his friends, fighters based in the ring to try to meet ali. working on this like i said for more than three years before he passed away several times in which fundraisers were he was supposed to appear and he was ill and didn't make it but i met

his wife a couple of these things and i told her i was working on this and i told her the same thing i told ali friends and family why they should talk to me for free. i'm taking this seriously and wanted this to be the book that ali's grandchildren and great grandchildren would read, nots just see how wonderful he was to see how much he mattered and why. ali's wife said to me yes, that is great and what you're doing that and you should come meet him. i got back after one of these events weremy ali had not been d i wrote him a letter saying my daughter was five at the time asked if she could write a letter to come in. i said yeah, sure, she asked me how to spellsa mohammed and then she broke her own. dear mohammed, my daddy loves me. really loves you. do you love my daddy smart love, lola. i didn't think they could resist us. she called and said bring lola when you come visit. mom and love children. i said we will be in phoenix in a few weeks can we come visit.

and she said yeah, sure, as long as it's on an interview and you're not coming with the tape order and cameras. i said no, spending five years researching him and i want to meet demand. so lola and i went to phoenix with his house he wasn't feeling well today and he didn't come out of his room and we didn't get to meet him. we spent time with his wife and it was really nice and she loved my daughter a lot more than she liked me which was good. a few months later i found he out he would be in louisville for awards or money we went down to louisville and we went down to hung out with his brother and childhood friends and it was so nervous aboutat what i would say to him if i get a chance to meet him. i decided to go for a run on the route kylie used to run and i'm a big runner and i thought i'm running along the streets were ali's front and i'm thinking how ridiculous is this. empathy is important and i'm trying to understand that even though thisng little guy 60 some

odd years later running in his footsteps will learn about what it's like to be ali and a black kid growing uppr in jim crow louisville and it's preposterous. soso i thought okay, now i know i've been asking for it came to r me while i was running the day that if i get to meet him i know what i'm going to say. i went to the event that night and ali was there sitting at a table and one of ali's friends grabbed me and said come on, we've got to go meet him anyone get there and we iran over to the table and his wife introduced me to ali i looked in the eyes and i said my name is jonathan and i'm writing your biography. i know you didn't ask me to but it's anri unbelievable privilege of trying so hard to do it right and i just wanted to know what you want to say. he didn't answer. he looked at me and i think he knew what i was saying and his wife told me later he knew what i was and he didn't answer but that was hardd for me and in a

way it was a good thing because it's my book and it was his life and he lived it. he told us everyday why he mattered and what he was trying to do. photos from the minute he knocked out the minute he defeated sonny lipton, i'm here to say that a black man who called himself the greatest and i'm here to say that i don't have to do what white society or anyone else tells me to do. i'm here to say that we have the right and responsibility to fight for what we believe in. he did all those things and so does every day of our life and when you do those things as ali did when you stand up to power and when you get knocked down and get back on your feet that is when you earn the right to call yourself greatest of all time. thank you very much. [applause]

>> thank you, jonathan. i think this is the ultimate treat for usnk as readers to hae fascinating subject and a brilliant writer, together so thank you again for coming toyo nashville and if you'd like to ask a question because we are and she's been today for to come over to the microphone here you can line up at the microphone to ask your question and we have about ten or 15 minutes for questions to come on over and again after jonathan his answer the question will be heading over to the tent to sign copies of his book.mi thanks again. >> the question i have is i admire ali one of the stories about mohammed ali was after he won the olympics that he threw his gold medal into the river and i bet that i don't know if that is true or not. have you discovered anything about that? >> the good news is the bicycle mist turned out to be true but the gold-medal method probably not.

the story goes in it first appeared in his autobiography that he was back from the olympics and he, was wearing his olympic metal word everywhere and honestly, he wanted to show itit off and he said that on and he was in a restaurant and could get served and so according to his autobiography a white motorcycle game changed him out of the restaurant and as he was fleeing and going across the bridge of the ohio river he threw it into the river in frustration and protest that even a gold medal doesn't earn you service and one of these restaurants. his book was published someone asked him about that and he said what you're talking about. he said what's in the book and he said i didn't read the book what are you talking about. [-left-square-bracket i asked ali's brother bodies and no,o, e lost the metal and he was frantic for days searching for it and work to be and he could barely take it off so how could he lost it but his brother and several other people said he

lost it. that's one of those myths that doesn't turn out to be true unfairly. >> if i can make one comment, i'm a vietnam veteran is at the time i was also involved in the civil rights movement and i did find that the majority of people drafted were those of us who were involved in the civil rights movement and black. my unit was mostly black and there is a basis for his belief that the government out to stop that civil rights movement at the time. >> that is interesting. there certainly no question that black americans were serving and dying in disproportionate numbers to white americans if you saw that ken burns documentary. >> in morning, john. stacy harris, published author as well and when you spoke about wanting to capture his essence and be sure that you are getting it and expressing things the way they actually were in debunking myths andnd so forth i'm in the

process of ghostwriting a book and i've got that same obligation but even a little more finding their voice. what i'm wondering is when he started asking questions and they wereef asking how much mony for that did you ever consider an authorized biography or did you want to be totally free and support. >> request. what is are working on the book and ali's family and his lawyers found out that i was doing this one of his lawyers called and asked if i'd be willing to make this an authorized project in exchange they would give me access to the family and access to ali and they would take half the money to but that wasn't the issue for me. it was a question of what kind of book i wanted to write. if you're writing an offer his book you are subject to your partner and their wishes for the book and they a may not want certain things in there. ali was really clear about the fact he was not a saint and late in life he talked about a lot in

said there was a [inaudible] angel watching everything he did and keeping track of good things and bad things and if he had more good things and bad things he go to heaven but if he said he did a lot of bad things we needed to make up for those in the second part of his life and he believed that he had a chance to do that and works very hard with acts of charity and exit diplomacy but he was not a safe and i thought it was important b that he show the manifold and i didn't want to write a book when i had my hands tied in any way and so i never even considered the idea of doing an offer his book with the ali management team. >> good morning. you are the author of icons and sports, jackie robinson, lou gary, what is your love affair with finale? what made you want to buy that book. >> i'm interested in stories of rebels and i also wrote a book about the ventures of the birth

control pills were real troubles and i was a huge ali fan as a kid and i had a poster on the ceiling of a room and i was thinking about where he seems so different from all my other sport heroes and that a different level than terry brad shaw or o.j. simpson and he was almost like a superhero because first of all he was ann individual sports and ali loved and he never would play football and you never get enough attention and plus he had to wear a helmet and he couldn't see how he was but all he almost seem like a superhero because he was transcending the sport and he was unbelievable entertainer who was so witty and you think about his engagements with [inaudible] and he was a tv star and he could've been had his own variety show and he had this unbelievable important figure that was making front-page news political stance. he always seemed something more

than a sports figure to me. i've never been interested in writing greatat sports book to write a book about what tells about us as a country he seems like the best possible story. to me it was the greatest opportunity of my life will tell that story and i was just so thrilled that i got the chance thinking sure. >> good morning. i was what you learned about the relationship between mohammed ali and howard cosell? >> they were a great partnership. in some ways it was a business partnership that they recognize they were good for each other. he was on the first journalist to accept his name change it to say that he can do whatever religion he wants and maybe because cell was jewish but didn't tell hollywood actors of the current names and we didn't tell jewish people they couldn't drop their long jewish sounding come up with american sounding ones but why should we

tell ali that he can change his name for his new religion. it was democracy and racism but howard saw pass that info from the view in the beginning and ali recognize that being unseemly tv with him showed his warm and human side to so it was really good for both of their crews. i don't think they were super best friends and i don't think they dined at one our homes but they had a real mutual professional admiration. >> can i get you to comment -- i find it odd when i read that mohammed ali's obituaries that we praised him for his resistance and for his courage and then later, when did he die? >> june 2016. >> sussex later, three months later we are dealing with or, my math is off, a year later we are dealing with kneeling football players and the national anthem

and it seems like ali's legacy is just evaporated. >> that's a good question and a good point. it's a one. you are right. you think we would've learned something that ali sacrificed and showed that athletes, back black athletes in particular, should be entitled to be more than athletes and they're entitled to their political opinions and yet here we have the nfl we have the president saying that they should do their jobs and keep their mouth shut and were running into the same issues and i think it's sad and it shows how deeply ingrained these racial attitudes are. >> thank you for coming to nashville to talk to us. i'm been reading the book and it's amazing. the writing is a good to read so many the stories of the times and you brought them back to life. they're all interesting although

is a testament to the book and your talent of writing. my question is a lot of the books that i think are well-known about ali, t king of the world, [inaudible] blood brothers were all written by whiteman in out jonathan eig has a new book out. what you think it says about ali his most well-known books aboutu him are all written by whiteman and why arei people in the black community writing books about him? >> i don't really know i can't speak to why someone is not writing a book but generally -- there are a couple of others written byn african-american writers and they are wonderful to and i don't know why but i think ali was someone who killed a lot of people in appeal to a lot of sportswriters.

he was fighting at w that time d had very few african-american sportswriters covering boxing for the daily press and that might've been a factor. if you look at who is in the press. it was covering the fights they were almost all white writers and that doesn't excuse it but that's probably something to do with it. >> thank you. >> sure. last question, i'm afraid. then i will be signing books "after words". >> yeah, i wanted to know what you learned and i understood that i think up until his death joe frazier had discerned during those bytes ali would obviously do what he did in his promotion but frazier thought he took it too far and referenced him as a gorilla and i thought that frazier died bitter about that and i was wondering if you now our relationship was ever rectified in any way. >> that was one of the things ali was out of and he probably got bad scores for but frazier

was kind to him especially when he was out of boxing and gave the money and help them find work and when he returned to the ring he was brutal and merciless towards frazier and called him an uncle tom and he tried to humiliate him and it hurt joe and it hurt his whole family. his son was taunted at schooll because your dad is an uncle tom and it was strange because ali always treated his white opponents better than his black opponents. i'm not sure i can expand the behavior and it's a shame that no one ever said to him if someone had said to back off joe and it's not funny anymore and i think ali that would give him an edge in the ring, he'd have a psychologicalla edge but he latr apologized to joe late in life but i get the response that it was too little, too late. thank you very much for being here. it's been a pleasure.

[applause] [inaudible conversations] >> wednesday, booktv in prime time features bestsellers. starting at 8:00 p.m. fox news host on the history of the war of 1812 the battle of new orleans. former fox news host gretchen carlson on combating sexual harassment. her book is be fierce. after that national book award winning author tallahassee coach examines race, the obama presidency and the 2016 election in his book. later, jenna bush hager and barbara pierce pushed for member their childhoods in formative years in the white house in their book, sisters first. booktv, all this week in prime time here on season two.

>> washington journal, live every day with news and policy issues that impact you. coming up wednesday morning. be sure to watch c-span's washington journal, live at seven eastern on seve morning. >> c-span's student cam documentary competition is underway. students across the country are busy at work sharing their experience with us through twitter. it is not too late to enter. our deadline is january 18,

2018. we are asking students to choose a provision of the u.s. constitution and create a video illustrating why it is important to you. our competition is open to all middle school and high school students. grades six-12. $100,000 in cash prizes will be awarded. the grand prize of $5000 will go to the student or team with the best overall entry. for more information go to our website student cam .org. ...