that one. [laughing] >> you don't want to answer that one? >> directions, subjects generally? >> possibly more intelligence, more world war ii, more drama, and more interesting men and women doing things we don't know about yet. >> the hidden history of world war ii. thank you all for coming. [applause] >> we will have the book signing now over at the book signing tent. [inaudible conversations]

>> good morning. good morning. how are you? i've been asked to remind you to turn off your cell phones if you have been. i assume everyone does. and no flash photography, i was told that. if you do that will quickly we would appreciate it. my name is bobby hawthorne, i live in austin but a group in northeast texas. during the time of segregation i went to school that was segregated until i was in ninth grade. i have a little bit of time textured also worked university from 1937-2006 and by that time by the time i got there, schools

have been integrated but there was still in the constitution, participation is open to all students except for correctives and defective spirit we're dealing with some kind of an organization that wasn't always politically correct. it's my pleasure to introduce michael hurd, , a man i've known for many years and his friendship i value deeply. michael is the director of prairie view a&m texas and in for the preservation of history and culture which documents the history of african-american texas pretties worked as a sportswriter for the houston post, also american-statesman from "usa today" and yahoo! sports. recent books include black college football, 1882-1992, 100 years of history, education and pride. he serves on the selection committee for the black college football hall of fame. he also makes one of the best cheesesteaks i've ever eaten. [laughing]

my job is as simple as possible so michael can say as much as possible in the short time we have. we will have time at the end for q&a and we hope you will follow us over to university of texas press tent will be signing books, and i certainly urge you all to buy his book. it's "thursday night lights: the story of black high school in texas" it's not only highly readable and enjoyable, it's a very important document. so with that said please welcome michael hurd. [applause] >> michael, give us an idea when you begin writing this book and what was your inspiration for writing it and what was the process that you went through in writing it? >> first of all, bobby, i'm glad to be a thank you all for coming out to the session. i write in the book i feel like i've been writing this book since adolescence. because i grew up like so many

of the guys i write about and talk about in this book. the high school football i grew up in houston, texas, back in the stone age in the 60s in houston, graduated in the spring of 1967, and the fall of 1967 was the first season of black schools and white schools competed against each other. so statewide it was the first season for integration across the state. to that point these were the people that i knew about. these were the players, coaches and the schools that i was familiar with. the first time i heard the term friday night lights i had to i do what that meant. that had no relevance to me at all. i write in the book i had spoken with one of the players, several of the players i spoke with, when asked what of them about what thursday night lights make

him he said thursday night lights? he said that's for white folks. literally that what's it was. around this date black high schools play the games on wednesday and thursday nights. that was the situation when i grew up in houston, all the games are played at jefferson stadium on wednesday and thursday nights. all of the games were played during the week. my inspiration was to write about this time and to write about so many incredible athletes come so many incredible coaches that literally nobody knew about because the mainstream media didn't talk about these guys. they didn't know about these guys, and yet as they go on in their careers to become incredible players in the nfl, the afl, and all, all of these guys are big-time college players, and some of them were even ground breakers in terms of breaking the color barrier in previous all-white schools. i wanted to write about this

time, what it meant, what it was all about. it's all so traces black history in texas. the book covers 50 years from 1920-1970. i chronicle what that and it was like including what it was like for blacks even get education. there's a a huge debate about t of course back in the 1800 that whether or not blacks deserve to be educating him with the state want to spend money on educating black people. we have a sports book will also have a large dose of black history. i assume it was against the rules for white school, longview high school to live black school. was in the rules or do you know? did you go back and look? >> it was either not allowed or go not inclined to do so.

i didn't have to look back because it wasn't going to happen. [laughing] talking about an era of segregation and racism. there was no social co-mingling so to speak in terms of black and white. that extend to athletics and other areas. there was not even a thought or a possibility that black schools and white schools would compete against each other until we get to the merger. >> was there ever any instance

we had a successful program in a black school that somehow generated some interest for some support in the large white community where there was, there were like looking at these guys and they were football fans and thinking these guys are really good? so there were white guys, white fans going to black games? did that ever happened? >> no. [laughing] >> 042. >> because of that, it was really, it was really a weird set up where it you are black you were not allowed to attend a white game. as lack fans and you want to go to a high school for the friday night game at a white school, you either have to stand outside the fence or if there was a really tall tree nearby you could climb a tree and watch the game from that tree.

there was also an acknowledgment in terms of attendance because white fans would go to the black high school games and some of the guys that i spoke with talked about when they would travel, the fancy would travel with them were white fans. there was this measure of acknowledgment in the community, but that didn't extend to media. the media still didn't talk about these teams. they didn't talk about the players and coaches and that sort of thing. the point during my research, there was very little to be found. there was a great coach in houston, patterson who, my favorite, maybe i'm biased because i grew up watching pat beat us all the time at worthy, but coach patterson 14 states have been shipped in but he also won state chama chips in basketball and baseball. in my research i found one story

about coach patterson and it was a future story in the local black newspaper in houston. but a coach like that in all that he accomplished, and yet there was really no acknowledgment of why he did. that extended to the teams as well. the teams were never fully embraced around community. yet the fans, they would be white fans at the games but that was no relationship be on that. >> talk about the role of african-american press and how it covered and documented and promoted football. >> i also read a lot about black college football history, and that was the book bobby mentioned about i wrote about black history and historical black colleges which dates back to 1892. the thing that i found in doing my research and becoming a

library geek and just sitting in libraries from california to texas and going through microfilm and finding on microfilm back issues of the black newspapers like the chicago defender and the pittsburgh courier and the atlanta daily world and so forth. those with the papers that covered the black colleges. in the sense of a high school situation, the papers in houston, the forward times, the forward times, what i grew up with in the weekly newspapers. so every thursday i with sprint to the local grocery store and pick up a a copy of both of the newspapers, because they were writing about us. they were writing positive stories about us. they were writing stories about some of my classmates who were playing, to saving -- anticipating in athletics.

but writing about these games and the coaches and so forth and so on. those were the guys that gave all those schools whatever publicity they would get. the sanitary register, i thought of stories in the san antonio register. one quick story but when i was doing my research on black college football and i started finding these papers, when i was in high school we didn't get black history. again this was in the '60s. we didn't get black history studies. we got that there was slavery, there was emancipation and here we are. [laughing] >> that's it. there was nothing before that and there was nothing after that. so i would have, during my research i would have all these, why don't i know about this moment? why don't i know about that? why don't i know about this event? my intent when i found these newspapers online was just to go

to the sports section and see what the writing about the black college sports. i could never do it. i i would get, open the paper, e first real, and the front page and i'm stuck. i have to read this story. now i have to read this story. now i have to read this editorial. it opened up this world for me, this was in the early 80s and this is literally when i started this turn from being a sports writer to a sports historian. and then from a sports historian to a black historian. the coverage that the high schools got in texas all came from the black media. i knew like that i would read newspapers religiously every week, and that's how they would get the word out. because the local dailies didn't cover those guys on a regular basis. some of the stories are most of the stories they wrote were a paragraph or two or maybe even

just a score from a playoff game, but in terms of daily coverage, none of that ever really materialized. >> i think it's important, given all bit of history about, how it began and how it sort of paralleled your uil in a very separate but unequal weight. >> separate and very unequal. the league survived and how it came to be was as image and university of texas started the uil in 1910. it was about volleyball if i'm not mistaken. ten years later in 1920, 1919, a group of black teachers from the colored teachers state association got together at per view and said we need to do what the uil is doing for white kids we need to offer that for black

kids. so the pdl started at the texas interscholastic school of college kids at per view. prayer view was the equivalent for the black community, prairie view was the university of texas. it was literally the flagship university for black education in texas. i'm sorry i'm being -- in 1920 these teachers get together and they pattern, it didn't become the pdil until the '60s. before that they were called various names, the negro league, the caller league, and polite company of course. but they come together and they start the league. it was, more about track and field. when you first started it had nothing to do with football and basketball, , ironically, even

though there were a few teams they were playing. it was all about track and field and that's what these guys met. it was a track meet at free review which prairie view was at the center for the black community in texas for all things educational. and, of course, we get the athletics that come along. so they put together this leak and the pattern after the uil to govern competition for black students and academics, including typing and that sort of thing, but also a band competition and, of course, athletics. ..

if you are in lubbock, you can make that same plane if you beat up on our moline and amer allow. it is finally night 1039, caught patterson put together coming he desired and a plan for a playoff competition, so you don't get the first official state champion until the night team 40 season and now was fort worth who is a really good player at prairie view. they come together and they start probably to crank out the incredible players, these marvelous teams. i can get to the demise if you want.

>> to 10 years between brown v. board of education and the great integration of schools happened in the late 60s, 67, 68 to 69. >> as you know, a pretty exciting time for the country in general. usually as we make the transition for the segregation to integration. one thing that happened with brown v. board in 1954 with some of the schools in texas picked up on that immediately and begin to integrate primarily in el paso. the school year 1955, el paso decided to integrate. now, what caused for the ui though was a pretty big deal because the clause in their constitution and said their membership was available only to

any public way school. so now you have schools in el paso, corpus christi, san antonio and cities that didn't have large black populations. a lot of those towns integrated immediately. so the el paso school district said we will have some black players in the season. does that mean we can participate the? bad made for the first time start to think about and i'm sure they were seen this coming. they were seen integration come along. for the first time they started to think about how do we deal with this? how are we going to handle this? basically they said very quietly and they told the schools it's okay you can how black players. you can still compete, but there were seven schools wouldn't play teams that had black players.

so you still had that going on. but as integration starts to get closer in the issue starts to get better, and uil starts to think about we really have to make the change in the constitution. in the change is just an added to the constitution where they've remove the word white to basically any schools. in the 1967, and they emerge and is not a merger. it's a hostile takeover. because what happens at its peak, and made 500 member schools. not all of them had football teams all around the state. what happens with integration in the so-called merger is all but

eight black schools go away. they disappear. they demolish those schools. there are no instances i'm aware of where you have white students attending black students. primarily black students being bused to white schools. you had some incredible black coaches and some incredible black teachers. the best of the best lost their jobs and were asked to join the assistant coaches and that didn't sit so well with a lot of those coaches. a lot of those guys retired or left the profession and some became administrators. coach haskins became a big-time administrator, but that was the situation. so you have the so-called merger of these two leagues, but

nothing is left. just be a schools. five schools in houston, worthy, cashmere, whitley and booker t. washington. fort worth terrell and dallas, washington. those are the only schools left. i went to my 50th class reunion recently and it was very sad. i couldn't believe what i was seeing because the football team i counted, and 25 players on that team, 25 players and it was the same with jack gates and it was the same thing. they simply would've happened if those schools have noticeably declined and they finally closed those schools as well.

soon i'm pretty sure we are going to see no legacy for the black high schools in texas and the wonderful history they had. does another at the tastes. >> a number of stories about schools do when they were ordered to integrate and they certainly didn't go easily in today's, and they basically took all the trophies, medals, ribbons, rituals to the dump and dumped them and sent the black kids to the way school and then start over. >> they did. i think this was in austin. i know a lot of those schools had tremendously devoted alumni and wanted to preserve that history. a lot of that history was drawn away. they pulled some things come and they found some things in dumpsters.

they found a lot of things in closet, you know, growing dust and cobwebs and plaques, trophies, uniforms, you name it. a lot of that stuff was just going away. people came through and said we need to try to preserve some of this and they've done a pretty good job of saving some of that. most of that you would absolutely have thrown away. the coaches make association of houston as a group of men, wonderful man who have preserved a lot of bad history and they had it on display at a building. one of the things that really excited me to write this book was about 10 years ago i went to my first coaches association, so every summer they recognized a lot of the formal coaches and

players and a lot of these guys guys -- a lot of these guys have never been recognized. for two minutes they can stand fair and say this is who i am. this is what i did. thank you. they get recognized. no one had ever asked these guys to tell their story. nobody had ever asked him who they were. nobody ever asked them what they had done. again, talking about people like kenny used in, bubba smith, head of belmont, charlton pollitt. six of those guys come in p. bil guys in the pro football hall of fame. these guys came from nothing,

but they give those guys their moment of same minute so moving and touching to be there and see those guys have their moment, you know. i think that's when i really started after attending a couple of those i've got to write this one. [applause] >> i do have to ask you this. i've talked to a lot of a lot of people, primarily white coaches have led administrators to lived in that time and they tell me they came to texas more smoothly because of all, the texans by and large the football more than the fact they had segregation. would you agree to that? >> in a way i would. i certainly have this conversation more than one over

the last decade or so. they secretly salivated about having this black talent. all of this athleticism, the power. the pdil was a wide-open league. the football was exciting. the athletes were incredible. my classmate, clifford branch who played with the oakland raiders three-time super bowl, was the first schoolboy in texas in 1966, the first schoolboy to run a 100-yard dash. that record lasted as long as it took to set up the next event. the next event come a kid named reggie robinson, 9.100-yard

dash. this is the caliber of astley you had as pdil. those coaches come and just think about it, all of a sudden you can infuse all of this speed in your play the more exciting brand of football. a lot of those coaches couldn't wait to have that talent and whether or not, whatever the rules were about segregation and uil, one of those coaches were glad to have that happen. on the other hand, there is this kind of disrespect for black coaches. a lot of the white coaches and i think i quote this in the book of a quote about we are going to give you guys a little bit of time to catch up because we know you are behind a coach you to basically you guys don't know how to coach. you just put the football out there and let your guys play and whoever wins are wins.

well, that first season, there was a meeting in houston in the point of the meeting was telling the black coaches, could you guys kind of hold this back a little bit. because they were beating their competitions like 60 to nothing. they were winning very easily. but when that happened, immigration comes along. a lot of the white coaches really glad to see that. one of the things that happened was they would go to these coaches meetings. black coaches could it go to the high school coaches association. sometimes they really want to have a voice. so the white coaches would go to these meetings and they would talk about i got one meeting. they had gotten a black

superstar and they will glad to get to that point. >> i want you to tell the real quickly, without too much elaboration, who were the two best teams? >> the two best teams. you know, probably the best team is more of a pdil alumni so to speak. 1985 jackie t. which ironically would be very soundly beating the friday night lights and jackie team. so there we sat and to be politically correct i would say everybody else. the two teams about to mean. coach coach charles brown, nate tien 60th in 1965. 13 and zero in both of those

seasons and they wanted the pdil in five of six seasons they won their district and competed for state championships. the coach had a mini dynasty back then. >> time to open the floor for questions. please feel free to take the microphone. >> mr. heard, and delighted you mention my hometown of corpus christi. i was under the understanding 1960, my hometown won two state championships. the colts, the hornet in my high school, miller high school became the first racially integrated football team in texas to win the state championship by recruiting

johnny roland who went on to be in the nfl rookie of the year. he's still a legend in my high school. they have a big insuring picture of him and we are so proud and the father of my best friend was the coach at miller and he went over and he said if you go to miller, gould. tua state football championship in your senior year in five other players transferred over and they beat wichita falls analysis first racially integrated team. am so glad you mentioned all that. >> thank you so much. that's a mere corpus christi had three state champions because the catholic school they are also won a state championship that year. >> we had another question.

very good presentation and discussion. i've got two questions that i need to do two questions. one of them is what you consider to be the highlight of the 50 year. you cover with the 1950s, 1960s and a half that for the question of the impact of the post-world war ii period and maybe a little bit of our money in the black community. the second question is were there in a small school is a little more successful during the period of the pdil because it's easy to look at dallas and houston. close the highlighted 1950s, 1960s and already small school successful during the period of pdil? >> i think they may be moved up to three asn.1. livingston was probably the best

high school football team in east texas in the 1950s. livingstone won something like three or four and they had a playoffs record where they went 73 games and only lost two games in competing for the playoffs. livingston was a really dominant team. i would say that era that stands out to me because i tend to relate to black high schools with historically black colleges they all say. the great relationship or you into a black high school and then a black college in the beauty otherwise most of the guys who went to black colleges graduated. they graduated to get degrees to go back to their hometown in become teachers and coaches that in turn would send their best

players to the black colleges. so i look at the 1950s as just a golden era in general. i don't think there would be more resources are my money necessarily. better players came out of that era. did i answer that? >> of a fellow houstonian. i know there's a great rivalries in the state, but has there ever been anything in the 50s come the third word against the third word against theirs toward comity they played played on thanksgiving if i'm not mistaken. >> the biggest high school football event in the country with the eighth weekly. the tour as many as 40,000 fans. we are talking about playing in a stadium at the time the 30,000

fans. i don't think my powerpoint is working very well. fans standing around the field was the event of the season for the black community because so many were the second and third black high schools opened up in houston. so you have this community where most of the people kind of know each other. their families i went to school together. thanksgiving day was like i said across the country the largest high school football event in the united states throughout the 50s in the 60s. it was really sad to see that go away when the league went away as well. thank you. >> are you or anyone else undertaking a comprehensive

project to get an history of the players and coaches? >> yes, i am. in the course of researching, but also for the work that i do have her review. we are really trying to keep to this history in terms of oral history. as we talked about a lot of what was left out the schools, you know, which is discarded and it isn't fair. i was really disappointed that so many of the guys they wanted to talk with a dirty pastime. nobody ever tells the story. there is no documentation for any of that. i am working to try to keep as much of that as they can. >> mr. hurd, thank you very much for your book. i can't wait to go get it.

i grew up in lubbock, texas in the early 60s had just some things from the white point of view, attending some of the games, with banquet of great halftime they have. wow, do they make us look bad over here. and unlike bobby said, when we finally integrated back in 67, at least love a great football team. >> that's a good point. the big aspects like high school football as well as black college, especially black college football was halftime, where you have a lot of people in the first half, but towards the halftime in the second quarter you start to see the

fans and trade stands to fill up because the bands were so exciting in the showmanship was off the charts so halftime was a very big deal. >> you mentioned can be used in earlier and he's going into the texas high school hall of fame. mean joe greene went down last year. your reaction to those guys going in there and secondly, do you feel like there is material there to nominate more people had more of the players have the potential to go into the hall of fame? >> without a doubt. some of those guys have never been recognized at all. so i think the texas football hall of fame is starting to pick up on some of that. i know they started with some of the coaches. coach patterson was the first pdil coach to go in and that's only been may be the last 10 or

15 years if i'm not mistaken. via joe greene, can be used in was of the pro football hall of fame. from dollars high school outdoors. a lot of those guys who deserve that kind of recognition and i'm glad to see those guys go ahead and then hope that the beginning or the can and duration of adding. thank you. >> looking forward to reading your book, but who is the greatest pdil player we've never heard of? >> i like a guy named john p. who played and livingston. he was surrounding back. and at prairie view back the day

[inaudible] however, a great football plater. >> i'm curious if the schools were segregated at first, why was their football games on thursday and friday? is there a reason for the football games? >> the primary reason was every town in texas had a black school in a white school. most of them had black schools. some of the black schools had to commute from other communities in terms of football, they shared the public school stadium

sunday than on tuesday nights another night. you can say is logistics and they kind of grow from now. who got to use the public school stadium and win. >> i believe we are out of time. [applause]

[inaudible conversations] >> good afternoon