[inaudible conversations] good evening everybody, good evening ladies and gentlemen. i am done occurred and the executive director of the pilgrim society and home museum which as you know was the oldest museum in the united states. we are here tonight in the great hall. we opened our doors back in 1824 to display the original sessions of the mayflower pilgrims and artwork and artifacts that tell stories of english settlers and the people who hear an early québec. i would like to thank our sponsors for this special presentation this evening.

tonight we are here for a new launching of a new history of plymouth and of the pilgrims, the mayflower, the families of wage and the founding of america published by st. maartens press and written by british journalists and author rebecca fraser who is our honored guests this evening. this new work explores one of america's foundational narratives to the settlement of plymouth through a meticulous and very important lens, that of the -- plymouth story is layered in generations of myths and legends but rebecca fraser reminds us of the deeper meaning and power of this 400-year-old story. the real experiences of the men, women and children who lived in it, their motivations courage and perseverance. please join me in giving a 400

year strong plymouth history welcome to rebecca fraser. [applause] >> it is so wonderful and moving to be here after thinking about the pilgrims for such a very long time and to be surrounded by paintings of them and especially because so many people have been so generous with their time. i've had so much help from donna curtin and rebecca griffith ted baker and steven o'neil who answered many questions over the years and also the presence of the winslow house. it had all kinds of issues to do with plymouth colony's and with that said please forgive my

errors for the great scholars and descendents of the mayflower. anyway is that better like that? anyway, i want to talk about the winslow family especially tonight he cassettes who i approach a story of the mayflower through a make-believe that gives me a bit of a license is an english person to look at one of the founding myths of america because there were so many ongoing english can connections to the winslow's which i feel have not been explored and in fact the national archives in london did reveal the international story of plymouth and the winslows including the fact that the winslow family ran an import-export company from england. when edward winslow was living

there in the 1840s of this is an introduction most story for me and if i may dare to say so the mayflower actually turned out as distinguished as they were to be like canaries on the mine if you'd like to put it like that to test whether new england was habitable as the situation in england got worse. the archbishop appeared to be ready to turn england to catholic. i was very interested in a puritan link and the puritans who set up the english civil war war. it was very interesting to discover edward winslow who was governor of the first successful. in colony in north america also sailed back again. anyway, so that's my dare to approach this great american story. i was just in worchester england

by coincidence on edwards birthday a couple of weeks ago standing in the 17th century hall where he was a student studying latin and greek and how very far this eager young man came 3000 miles to plymouth for religious sake. he was a very respectable young man where his father was a central figure who was made under sure for the county and his father's friends were the elite gentry a force tiexiera especially now as he had done educating at kings college worchester which was the premier voice and girl school. his future seemed assured his parents and that he had an apprenticeship to printers in london probably thanks to his father's connections.

and yet edward chose to effectively run off and become part of the illegal puritan community and light in and a respectable life in england. he not only printed the illegal puritan lecture church of england he also joined that little church with john robinson which hired the mayflower and does have that extraordinary and influence on the history of the world. why was edward on the ship in the first place? i think that he was fascinated by the new world even before he went to lighten because he'd been a printer which published a great growth area in the publishing world of the discovery of america. he had also become a very serious. in london where he worked for a radical printer who in ported

william brewster published partly due to conviction and partly due to make money. he wanted to publish illegal periods and literature himself to contribute to the struggle against the antichrist and in fact if you are radical puritan it wasn't so unusual to want to go to america. colonies were regarded as a weapon in the great war against the reformation. so many policymakers in king james court including the then secretary of state robert norton were in favor of going to the mayflower. lots of people try to help get them out. in fact many people read this illegal literature which was tolerated and then the brewster press headed by of course the famous -- and set a publishing curtain greatest hits of the

state the press attack the king's policy to work or the church of scotland and all hell broke loose. previously the virginia company have been involved in the immigration but now it had to be a much more quarter affair. norton who supported order the british ambassador to holland to send english soldiers and to close on the brewster press and brewster who in fact escape to the north of england. of course enlightened -- in light in these extremely respectful people who had given up everything for working as really manual labor for dutch merchants and in a not particularly nice habitat. that was the town hall were ever toward winslow married his

beautiful skelter in this famous memorial happen by the pilgrim society. that is the front of the house behind which was the garden which 20 families lived in great discomfort but to be with john robinson and that's the saddest obey. they were living in a wooden house and it was really area comfortable. that was one of the reasons they really have to get out particularly as the spanish were about to invade holland again. and their children are being forced to work making clothing a dutch businessman that they themselves had to take the worst jobs and work 12 hour days because a lot of them, it was all they could get. of course they have experienced imprisonment in boston and

england and some of the church also included as you know refugee french fleeing the french wars of religion and other consequence. holland was full of people who had been to america and were thinking about going to america partly because the dutch india company had recently discovered the hudson river. he wasn't that unusual an idea and this wasn't it venture that seemed attractive. the dutch government in fact offered this up my church to come to their plaxo to speak in as they get settlers ahead of cavalo would have been better to in some ways allow the dutch government to help them initially but because of this illegal, because of worcester was now on to run the pilgrims as they call themselves now have the secrecy they had to maintain up their tradition. that meant they couldn't raise enough funds from the things they needed to cut some in

esters now would not touch them and they were regarded as rebel so they didn't have any cattle on the ship or draft animals or even enough corn because we know they had to borrow or take indian corn to plant the next year when they en route arrived but as we know they did pay them back. the church was very dependent on john robinson and who is a once thoughtful man. the church regarded themselves as part of his family. one of the great disappointments when they left holland was that investors had refused to have robinson on the ship tickets he was head of the illegal church and robinson said he would stay behind but at this stage it was only the strongest torment to go. it was really a disappointment for them and in fact it for years they kept hoping that each ship which arrived would have robinson on it which it never

did. robinson was a very strong character, an unusual man who had strong views about the way the church treated the native people and this was a time and it was a great deal of debate and european government circles about the nature of the american indian tribes. robinson came down firmly on the side of those who believed the indians had -- which was a matter of speculation at the time. worship was especially attracted to robinson's idea of the church in america. as robinson would tell them in a letter very firmly they were not there -- and he was also an open-minded man who thought women should play a role in comp additional churches. robinson's absence caused great loom over them as they left by canal on barges and they went to del haven.

there was a great sadness and edward winslow newsom by heart. he had left instructions about how to cooperate with one another which is potentially going to be one of the greatest problems because the new people who were not church members for practical people were going to join them in england. edward winslow was an organizing force in the colony weather was volunteering to meet the native americans or plymouth was in need of a local 16 years at the colony was founded. one has to ask about edward winslows early influences and the first thing i would like to say is probably thanks to the dynamic circles his father moved in the same sort of people that produced shakespeare edward had a very strong civic sense born of pride in the english system of government. we know this because some of the arguments he used to stop the

faraway english government interfering in new england affairs in the 1640s during the remonstrations crisis reflected this and he said he had an idea of england in which representation was key. 150 years before rallying care care -- cry of no taxation without representation was low road is the parliament of england should impose laws upon as having no house of commons no capable of the summons by reason of the distance of the ocean 3000 miles from london then we should lose the freedom i conceived of english indeed. every corporation with their purchases could consent and so oppose whatever they conceived baby hurtful to them but we are not capable of by reason of

distance. it was complex reasoning showing his great respect for parliament but defending new england's independence. although he had been exiled and holland it was something of an ideal and though during the case case -- course of his life he became increasingly illiberal leaving for holland and america was a yearning for a better pure life. and in that he was no different from other intellectuals of the period. the late 16th century in europe was a depressing time. it was wracked by the wars of religion described by poets and writers of corruption and to them the new world was a beacon of hope. you must remember all the essays of writers like montag and thomas utopia which suggested a great dissolution with europe at the same time the inhabitants of the new world were a cause of

enormous interest and they'll were the subject of this shermans preach to the virginia companies at that meeting by the great san francisco poet john dunn. columbus's discovery of the americans in 1492 created a flood of festive commentary and speculation and travel books with the growth area publishing. in 17th century england everything was implored by god christianity and the bible like the discovery of the internet today. discovering the americas altered everything could european philosophers writers and theologians stretch their minds to fit the new continent and its inhabitants into a christian era centric chronology. what happened to the world? were native americans the original inhabitants of the world that survives? could they be some of the last

tribes who had been expelled by the syrians in the eighth century before the common era? it was great interest to edward hennessey got to know the american indians and became very personal friends he believed it was his duty to show that they were cultured in moral people. in england native american relics were collected as excitedly as americans and the father and son who were the most influential collectors of the first half of the 17th century that a fast piece which was said to be the mental of the emperor and i'm going to show it here. and it's in the museum in oxford oxford.

it's covered with nearly 20,000 shelves forming a design of two beasts in the human. the collection forms the basis come and form the basis and that's where the mantle is. it's a wonderful thing to see. american indians often freed from slavery but the arrival of the fascinating princess pocahontas was electrifying because she was supposed to have saved the life of columnist john smith and married one of the virginia -- and the historian david can it i'm had shown when the english in north america they did not see them as essentially, he said they saw the hierarchical societies. not in a relationship of english

superiority in north american imperial ready by the equipment and similarity. princess in one society for the princes to another and whenever winslow was working as a print one pocahontas arrived from the state visit and was treated as the daughter of the great emperor james the first and here is a contemporary, the famous contemporary engraving of her which was probably an original portrait. they are dismayed and engraving of her which looks like one that the queen elizabeth would wear. the daughter of the most powerful prince the emperor of virginia. whether the native americans had a recognizable civilization was the question forming the development of colonization and

in england and spain. the spanish empire organized under the system where the indigenous people were forced into labor in exchange for protection but to strenuous public discussion and debate of 1551. to defend the right of conquest over peoples being combined with natural slaves. the philosopher victoria the spanish bishop in mexico insisted on native rights. the indians custom show the indians were rational beings and educated english people were aware of these debates especially john robertson.

it was hugely influential for the petrovic legend of the spanish. amongst most english colonizers in the early and 1770s as a given that the american indians descended from the same original ancestors themselves and as for the virginia minister in sixth being 13 he converted pocahontas in a paris church in virginia. they had reasonable souls and intellectual -- such a sweetie. there were discovery of classical texts have profound effects on the english colonizers. they thought that the native americans were going to be like the ancient britons and they were going to be bringing culture and the gospel which he had done and alexander inquired

what was -- i think edwards very much have this mindset because he compares the temples of the native americans to diana and of course such ideas based the new people that no one had met before and suggests why the pilgrims are so afraid of people who were a very different culture. edwards first encounters suggest he had this for a virtue and the pilgrims were very impressed by the indian valor and bravery. in fact one of the many reasons roger williams was so happy was because of their very good relations with the native americans and william bradford

and john winthrop noted with amazement tone trauma papers and who were the original owners of the land. it was the american indian tribes of course. anyway the chief became very close friends with the native americans. one of the great things we know about edward winslow was assassination with the people who went to the city in london and became great friends and made money by selling for. we know almost everything we know about the first thanksgiving is based on a few lines from edward winslows letter. in fact there are many other descriptions of a very happy symbian relationship between

them. he describes it as the second wedding to the widowed dallas and became for the kings. it was all very exciting and anyway so i think to edward the native americans had a sort of magic and also you have to remember that at this time in england the revivalists were amazed -- making literature in vogue. planets seem to have many of its elements. as jh elliott had written the dream was a european dream which had little to do with american reality. the indians were not naïve.

nevertheless it took some time the relatives of two opposing ways of life to distinguish themselves and so for over a decade there was a very good friendship between the two peoples and i would say a uniquely tender friendship between them. one of the reasons edward winslow is less well-known than some of the more of a famous pilgrims's first of all longfellow did not dissent from ham and secondly after 25 years he vanished from plymouth. has to be said william bradford who saw it as an active desertion and the last lines are so is he now has been absent without his consent he took these employment upon him but that of course only reminds how much plymouth was part of the

ongoing reformation revolution by luther. although william bradford was interested in what was going on in england compared to edward he was delighted when bishops were gotten rid of but edward was absolutely obsessed about the english revolution and yet become great friends with john winthrop. he used to ask john winthrop to send newsletters about the situation there and i think he was a much more ambitious man and a more wealthy man than william bradford and he was less emotional and heated tent at the famous phrase that plymouth plymouth or dearington was to be a place where religion and

profit went together so edward never saw the danger to religion for prosperity and the daughter destroy the mother. the wealth in this and prosperity was a threat to piety and it destroyed ambition but much as william bradford might want to make a utopia in and material progress which is energetic when winslow was to promote with naturally -- and though i don't want to grieve with increase matter the king philip's war was god using the tribes to punish the puritans for their backsliding i would agree that it was very connected to the new commercial spirit and an amazingly trade was taking on between north america and england in the years before it. the fascination with the native americans of the early settlers and plymouth did give way to commercial considerations when it was felt that for example the

indians ownership of land was standing in the way of making use of new agricultural ideas in old england. an edwards case being a new england patriot overtakes his passion for the american indians and he becomes very much more involved with massachusetts and he also becomes exhilarated at the idea of new england as he would say, the colonies were growing up to be a nation and he was someone who'd gotten to know many members of the puritan or amend terry and party because being an agent for plymouth in london many of the future cause of being the english revolution had been supporting plymouth and so he knows a lot of the movers and shakers. in my view edward becomes distanced from plymouth perhaps

because they were so independently minded and probably most of them would have liked to have backed his promotional freedom that plymouth and in fact the speeches by william bradford with bedford winslow's support refused to allow it to be in a quarter assembly. we have letters from edward to john winthrop saying how he's pining for his company and the weather is stopping him from going from marshfield to boston. even before edwards goes what is really massachusetts in 1646 he was spending much more time and was instrumental in setting up the federation of united colonies in the 1643 after the death which precipitates what historian daniel mandel has described as a cold war between the american indian tribes in the settlers. since edward like others very

much supplement the massachusetts as part of a world that became its best upbringing on the second coming of the saint but he certainly didn't have fears about what commercial prosperity would do to it. anyway broadening of new england's destiny which edward was at such pains to promote and protect during the crisis when newcomers are not independent churches to give them civil rights the making of this prosperity of new england. with all progress overcome to the cordial relations with the native americans i think you have to remember eventually the huge numbers of english people arriving, 25 in new england in 10 years was the an enormous particularly in 1633 when the

plague hit. this created tremendous anxiety people moving to connecticut. also i think sadly edwards to some extent, his view is altered because of the hutchinson controversy which condense many of the more influential than mr.'s that was in the wilderness and this was not an uncorrupt place anymore. you can ball and mike you see it as a change to attitudes. the land fails to appease appease what we now perceive is very powerful neighbors becoming very much greater to the north and they tried to reverse it without success so by the time king philip's cannot even --

peninsula at mt. hope. plymouth was a lot good to get involved with the war but in the end they had become convinced that they have got to. so anyway and we of course have the famous words recorded by john easton of rhode island that king philip said his father had been the first in a english first. the english were like little children and he was the father who protected the indians. there were quite a few contemporary accounts of king philip lord to show how he bitterly resented winslow because he felt betrayed by him. i think the truth is the settlers in particular the winslow's were so much more

involved in international trade that relationship collapses and yet the winslow's headband and important people. anyway it goes to london to plead the case of new england to say new england must be left alone by london and he makes a great speech to the commission on plantations and they read there would be no more appeals. edwards simply can't leave and the fact that the ships had been abolished leads into the idea that the millennial is coming and at the same time in england herbert palin who was an old friend of edwards in boston returned from boston being the first treasure of harvard to take up land in suffolk through

his first wife and he discovers that edward is related to one of the best-known figures of the civil war. they think edwards life changes and i think both portraits -- the portrait of penelope shows a different lifestyle, very different from plymouth that edward and josiah had. he lives in london but he starts importing in exporting and josiah comes to spend quite a lot of time in london and elizabeth, edward stalk her also comes over because he gets very miserable in london. he just can't leave it alone. he's been promoted to one of the

revolutionary commissions and he has actually been chosen to be one of the civilians in charge of expelling spain from jamaica and making english partisan colonies there. edward dies on the way to conquer jamaica end of course just die and penelope. louvre at marshfield but they also spend quite a lot of time in england and penelope's family are aristocratic. there are great houses they live in and they think just die changes and we have letters in which he talks of the insolence of the indians were is the older settlers admire their brave settlers.

they are speculators who think the native americans are using up-to-date methods. he is part of a group getting the native americans land and the new england currency won't be monetized in the restoration and native americans art desperate for european technology and they start selling land for it because they don't have money. there's this terrible terrible rule and i think this had been uncharacteristic of his generation. just die was drastic of new england generation and of his generation and the suspicion had really replaced the open-mindedness of the mayflower days. however just die was not really characteristic of plymouth which remained perhaps because of his questioning suffers foundations and a much more open-minded

colony than the rest of new england. john austin jr. famously refused to take the salem witch trials seriously when he arrived to a court hearing he was surrounded by what he contends would described as winches with their juggling tricks. he refuses to trust salem justice. he is sprung from jail and tell us he said people regain their reason. unlike austin quakers were left alone. there were communities of them in the colony and perhaps the unique mayflower compact which was so much influence by john robinson had a continuous rippling effect on the colonies like a perpetual fountain bubbling up. even if the mayflower compact is much romanticized the fact is this document is rightly regarded as elite forward in the history of democracy. it certainly was an advance of the time in printers carpenters and indentured servants and

barrel makers were not usually 17th century politicians. it wasn't until over 200 years later in england that the working class boring franchise. robinson had left instructions which i would argue emphasizes the value of all human beings regardless of rank or wealth and he says once they have made themselves into a body politic given they did not have any and i quote special mnc whatever their social position should get their full loyalty because he reminded them that the authority which the magistrate is honorable and i think you see in independence of mind in plymouth which you don't see in boston.

it was not required to plymouth settlers to be members of a local church in order to be enfranchised in fact edward was not a member of a church at all until the 70s. as a result you see a great reaction against winslow's decision to some north american indians who surrendered to slavery without trial in d.c. -- direct king philip's world by the reverend boiling and james keats. saying this really shouldn't be happening. what was it that made just die so hostile? it may be doing business in the west indies where slavery becomes common practice. this new lord george was the wealthiest in salem but nevertheless josiah was greatly mourned by his early death and

the other thing that in my view was great about just die was he thought his wife penelope winslow who bought -- brought a case against her father for refusing to grant her a legacy which had been left by her great-grandfather and to me have been wondering ever since the controversy how women were treated in new england it's a sign that actually whatever the ideas of the authoritarian society didn't stop women from taking cases and the case of publishing an assessment which is really vitriolic. she accuses them her brother and her father of criminal conspiracy to deprive her of her

grandfather's money. although it's precipitated at the same time it didn't stop her from querying whether her half rather was really a love to inherit land which had been left by her father herbert and she takes another case against him in 1703 just before she dies. so did distance from her father brings separation which was fine or was it the effect on enlightened philip? women aren't able to keep pubs. the women had to appear in court so likewise to any plans to her children which is an attitude anticipating the custody act in england by several centuries.

so anyway i mixed bag of human beings in human actions but plymouth colony brought out the best in the winslow family. thank you very much. [applause] would anyone like to say something? >> rebecca first of all welcome to plymouth. i am walter and we have spoken on the phone. delighted to see a person to think you've done a nice job of amplifying an aspect of winslow's career that emphasizes his education and to that extent i'm curious about your sense of his ability and his facility for languages and his ability to deal with native peoples and his fascination. could you elaborate on that? >> while i think a lot of these

travel literature of the 17th century. john smith compiled a list of words later on obviously the key to -- it's all about arab -- all about native americans. i think it made him furious about what words meant and in fact good news from new england which was written four years after he arrives here. he describes native american words, what those words mean in great detail and he is obviously studying their world. we know that steven hopkins, it was the only mayflower traveler who has been in the new world before and supposedly one of the reasons he went on expedition was supposedly he knew of few

native american words but clearly at the beginning it was edward. he wanted to relate them to old england where he came from and in a very -- he wanted the world to know about it. and in a very determined way because his first visit to london he said i don't think we'll have any religion in these anxious to correct that. i think he was a very good linguist. he spoke dutch. he knew latin and greek. this was a new challenge which he was very intrigued by. not to say that everyone else wasn't but he published because he was a publisher. >> obviously gone into trading and so forth when he first

landed in plymouth but was he doing at that time? >> well they were sort of panicking thinking where's the money going to come from and in fact there's a wonderful death and william bradford's -- where he says i am so proud of my community that they were weavers and they have become traitors and have become exporters inferring to the wonderful explanation about how everybody adapted to the new world with tremendous energy. guess they were immediately, thanks to this relationship they were able to get first coming down from hudson's a were of course they grew -- and of course when john winthrop arrived plymouth has a hold on the first. for trade to the north.

[inaudible] his father was a churchwarden into a twitch. he was conventional church of england person. his patrons in first assure with puritan gentry and worst assure was where a lot of catholics were piggybacked owclock came from around there but there was also a group full of puritans. but he was strict in the church of england because his father had that sort of position being sort of conformist.

edward himself was the person who made the change so i think he's radicalized. when he goes to london to be a preacher and he waits for john beals who was importing literature and i think there were a lot of little separatist churches in london. now a days although the 50 other people coming on the mayflower who's supposedly were there for practical reasons a lot of them had separatist links. i think priscilla mullins father was a member of the separatist church and there's a lot more suggesting that. i think he's radicalized and that he takes this decision. john knows, why was he importing all of this illegal puritan literature unless he had a different view. he then takes the decision and

goes to holland and joins the separatist church. [inaudible] >> it's very interesting. in 1620 his father up scones. his father was a paralegal. he worked doing legal business and worked as a qualified lawyer. there were various court cases showing that he fled to ireland because he had hard he said that taken money from those that were employed there. schiavo said came from a gentry family because her daughter then marries into the wake family. they claim to be his descended from her but they suddenly were very anxious gentry family and

royalists say edward winslow's whether my nephew were both wireless and there's a wonderful contemporary description by his nephew william which i didn't have time to describe but things saved from execution by a rebel uncle who is edward winslow and get edward winslow didn't mind the wakes investing in this import-export business. he remained close even though she was royalist and all of her brothers were puritans. one came back and then he died but he remained close to her and i found that fascinating that he didn't -- and even more interesting edward winslow's great nephew was archbishop of canterbury in 1760.

>> is a student of early american colonial history i'm particularly fascinated i the clash between various different religious groups such as quakers and catholics that were seeking to evangelize them throughout the course of history. you did mention the uk malaysia and the quicker committees entangling outside of the plantation. were there missionaries are certain individuals from plymouth or from boston. 10 representatives that were seeking possibly to convert those puritan non-separatist groups to their side, to expand? >> well i think, the answer is probably somewhere in this room there's an answer to that but i

would say plymouth was much more tolerant of communities and in fact there's this terrible thing that removes a lot of civil rights of quakers and then his daughter marries the quicker. i think it's in all of these things you can have an apparent glass ceiling and people are behaving quite differently to what the government thinks they should be doing. i'm not sure about conversion. the thing about the posters was just via winslow said as long as they keep quiet we will leave them alone. that was his position so he was very good in my view on quakers. >> can you tell us about your life and how you got interested in writing and fiction versus nonfiction.

i want to hear about you. >> oh about writing. i was a journalist and i wrote a biography and that was very enjoyable. although books take a long time in the end it supposedly went well. [applause]

>> today those homes sell for 300 or $400,000. the african-american families

are prohibited from moving into those homes rented apartments in the city did not gain 200, $300,000 inequity over the next two generations. white families gained equity and today those homes are unaffordable for working-class people. $100,000 in our terms in 1947 was quite the national median income and working-class working class families could afford the homes with an fha mortgage. today those homes are -- middle-class families can't afford enclaves in the 40s and 50's. today nationwide we have a ratio of income. african-american income on average is 60% of white income. african-american wealth is five to 7% of white wealth. most families in this country gained their wealth through

housing equity. this enormous difference between 60% and income ratio and 5% wealth ratio is almost entirely attributable to unconstitutional federal housing policies whose practice in the 1930s, 40s and 50's so the wealth but think is attributable both segregation segregation. >> andrew jackson jackson, why is he special? done mainly he's an orphan at 13 13. he loses his older brother never pushed a war. he and his other brother taken prisoner. the older brother when your older f-14 guys from wounds suffered after he was captured. jackson and his mom are left at jackson goes goes to happen and the next thing you know who she dies. how does you know? because the truck arrives at his house with her stuff in it.

at 13 years old and are jackson is raised by his country. if you want a guy who is patriotic you saw what the country did for him. he saw what everyone did so he could be successful and he wanted to pay back his country. he bled red white and blue. what did he become? instead of using that as an excuse to be a rebel and a criminal he became an attorney general of tennessee in 1791. ..

>> well, he was an indian fighter, he was, had slaves. i can't defend that. i can't defend his whole life. but, man, to think this life shouldn't be on a pedestal and examined, i think, is really a reach. i think it shows the arrogance of our generation that we'd even consider taking his statue down, let alone some of the other statues. when you talk about columbus, when you talk about jackson, to me, it stands. not because he's perfect, but because what he accomplished helped us as a country in every way. >> you can watch this and other programs online at booktv.org. >> booktv recently attended a book party for ken walsh, chief white house or correspondent for "u.s. news & world report" for his most recent book, "ultimate insiders." this is about 45 minutes.