>> investment fund ceo william browder has been a critic of russian president vladimir putin says the death of his attorney and a russian prison. mr. browder discuss latin america written on sundays "washington journal." this is our. >> host:th joining us from transfer capital management and being viewed by some as public enemy number one by vladimir putin. that is how gentlemen's quarterly puts it in john flynn is live background. let me share with you what he writes. the hair entails a build browder, howard businessman became an enemy of the russian state, how he has to live in constant fear, never knowing if the long arm of the kremlin will him or kill him. it's his own daily terror.

what history tells us is about the way he operates and what he might want from this country should scare all of us. thank you for being with us. you're on c-span. >> guest: great to be here. >> host: is that a fair assessment? >> guest: is it a fair assessment of vladimir putin's number one enemy? i think it is. i've done a lot of things over the last decade to cause him very personal trouble in retaliation for reaction to the murder of my russian voyeur can assert a madness being a russian prison after myy lawyer uncoverd in r a public machine, so yes is an accurate description. >> host: which led to an act which congress explain specifically what this does. >> guest: sure. he was my lawyer and russia. i was running an investment fund out there. he uncovered a massive $230 million russian government

corruption schemes involving officials among first in officers. he exposed instead of arresting the people who committed fraud against the russian government, and they arrested sergey mcnasty himself, tortured and then killed him in and horrific beating in 2009 at 37 years old. i got the news the next day and endedel about to his memory come into his family and myself that i was going to go after the people killed in an make sure you do it justice. for the last eight years that i've been doing. the major tool to get justice in this case was created in a law. it was introduced by benjamin cardin a democrat from maryland, john mccain been introduced in

2010. it passed the senate 92 to four novemberer 2012, passed the houe with 89% and was signed into law vladimir putin reacted unbelievablyev angrily. he banned the adoption of russian orphans by american families. many of you remember that. having stated repealing the act was the single largest foreign priority. we've seen numerous efforts bowling in all sorts of crazy stuff begin up to a major initiative launched by an agent of vladimir putin coming vladimir putin, woman many americans who know now is that talia bessel vizcaya who is famous because she was the person on june 9, 2016th who went to trump tower and met with donald trump junior, jared kushner and paul manafort with a

specific agenda of trying to repeal the magnitsky act on behalf of vladimir putin. is a long and shocking story of how we affect what we found the achilles' heel of the putin regime. >> host: as you connect the dots, let me take that one step further to one of the motivating is as it is confirmed he was involved with meddling 2016, was the fact in 2012? >> guest: unfortunately this is the primary motivator to take sides in the election. he believed for good or bad reasons donald trump would be more likely than hillary clintot to repeal the magnitsky act. it was the single largest foreign policy priority. we know he sent an emissary to approach the trump campaign totr do this.

and we know he was actively involved, putin was actively involved in manipulating our outcomes in america. we know that based on the hack of the dnc and all sorts of fake information for facebook and twitter. what we don't know, and this is very important, whether thiss ws just putin expressing his own preferences in a vacuum on his own or whether he was doing it with conjunction with anyone in the united states. that is to be investigated and proven one way or they other. >> host: how much is the earth? >> guest: she became the richest man inld the world for fast extortion and blackmail in russia and the estimate of his net worth is $200 billion. poster were to get those figures from? >> guest: when he became president he had one group of people basically stealing power

from him, the russian oligarchs. the russian oligarchs were taking away the power of the presidency and he decided at one point in time to rest the richest oligarchs in russia, the ownerr but is company. he arrested him, put him on trial, put them in jail the rest of the oligarchs and putin said what we have to do to make sure we don't suffer the same fate as michael orta koski and putin said 50%. the estimate of salt as young as 50%ia of the russian oligarchs n russia in the above approximately $400 billion which gets me to $200 billion for his net worth. >> host: william browder: is a a -- are you worried for her own personal safety or that of your family? >> guest: well, word is an emotional concept. i don't worry. i don't spend my time living in fear. however, there were very, very real direct threats from the to me. governmentrn

they have threatened to kill me, kidnap me. they're trying to haveve me arrested, extradited. there is a very real fear or risk that at some point they try to do something to me. >> host: the relationship between donald trump and russian president latimer pruden, how would you describe it? >> guest: it's a strange relationship. first of all, difference between theth relationship between donad trump and the trump administration to vladimir putin. donald trump says a bunch of things which i find unpleasant andd defensive. vladimir putin is not a killer, not a good guy and we should respect him. the sentiments are notot true. having said that, he's put together an administration of people executed in the foreign policy who are as tough and perhaps in some cases tougher

than me on russia. yessan general mattis, defense secretary is extremely tough on russia. mcmaster and his national security council, pompeo come ahead of the cia community haley, even rex tillerson. if y you listen to his speech lt week at the wilson center in washington, that's an extremely hawkish speech. the actual policy of the united statesst of america come the trp administration is tough based on st just mentioned and putin hasn't gotten an inch of whatever he thought he might get by supporting donald trump. at the moment we have a person who is tweeting nice things about vladimir putin as saying nice things in interviews that the policies haven't changed so far as of yet. >> host: based on reporting this morning covering his speculation on how long rex tillerson will stay on as secretary of state. the headline is he hasn't

learned his lesson according to trump allies making references he's open to negotiations with north korea and as you indicated, some of his criticism of the russian government. >> guest: i don't know. i've read a lot of things over the course of weeks the rex tillerson was absolutely out an average statements from donald trump saying is absolutely not a the one and so forth. very much like to show the apprentice. who knows who is knows who is in and who is out. he's still the secretary of state and the policies seem to be tough towards russia. donald trump has a lot of political latitude to warm up relations with russia with whoever he appoints because there is an extremely heavy cloud hanging over his head about whether he is at some kind of side dealings with putin. while that hangs the race had he can't do anything without having the whole country question his decision. >> host:ay i want to be clear, are you saying the russian

president is a killer? >> guest: i am saying vladimir putin is a cold-blooded killer.hic >> host: will he be reelected next year? >> guest: there is a very big assumption in your question that there's a real election taking place. in russia they have this façade of democracy, but there is no democracy in russia. what is vladimir putin do to make sure there is no chance is not the leader? the arrests come in some cases kills or exiles anyone with any chance of challenging him. he controls absolutely every aspect of the media. television, radio, newspaper, internet so if anything bad is said about him won't be seen by people. and then he created this fake election with a stuffed ballot boxese to make sure they get results that looks like what they want. 100% certainty of latimer pruden will be in power until he dies a

natural death or until somebody overthrowsws him. >> host: we are talking with william browder, head of transfer capital, graduate of of chicago and earned his master's froms stanford. tell us about your firm and will get to phone calls. >> i went out to russia when the berlin wall came down. i come from an initial family background. i thought it was late of the american communist party and the rebellion was to become a businessman. when the berlin wall came down i decided if my grandfather was the largest, communist america would become the largest capitalist and easternge europe. set up a firm called hermitage capital. but while for a long time and then it went very now but when we discovered corruption, exposed to and in that case i was being a threat to national security, expelledse from russia on my offices were then rated.

it took my documents, stole $230 million of taxes they paid, my lawyer and covered it, exposed it as he was then arrested, tortured and killed by the putin regime and couldn't participate in the covered up. "washington journal" he was also on our podcast online and anywhere you can check out your c-span radio app also for apple users. let's get to phone calls. don and lawrence, kansas with william browder. >> caller: guesstimate my question for mr. browder is how many oligarchs adversely affect it by the magnitsky active had reported contacts with trump associates in the news and such and if you are aware, could you name a few, please? >> guest: the magnitsky has sanctioned 34. false iraq, torture and death, and other murders.

there were no oligarchs as you describe on the list at present. they're a senior government officials, jailers, judges and other human rights violators. some people are wealthy, very wealthy in their own right.ht summer amid level officials. the reason the magnitsky active so terrifying is not out what it's done so far. it's what it could do in the future. what i said a few minutes ago as putin is the richest guy in the world with $200 billion. that is not held by him personally. it's all but oligarch trustees and we have since determined putin is one of the recipients of the crime that sergey magnitsky discovered, exposed and was called for. what will happen is if he's not holding the money and the money in his the money in his own

income in the u.s. government will go after the oligarchs and that's where the realfo risk lis for vladimir putin. post to where is the money being held? >> guest: is being held by russian oligarchs, the ones you see in the "forbes" list and they invest their money through major u.s. and european banks and hedge funds, private equity funds, and all sorts of other things. what looks like legitimate money a russian oligarchs through financial institutions is in some cases prudence money. >> host: kenya's joining us. lorain, ohio. morning. >> caller: good morning. it's curious how the reagan mondale benefited america. >> guest: i'm not that familiar with uranium one deal, so i don't know how to analyze who did what to whom i'm not, but i am an expert on all the things vladimir putin is up to. >> host: your former partner who is still left behind a wife and how many children?

>> guest: sir circa magnitsky behind a wife and two children. they are now out of russia. >> host: good morning. >> caller: good morning. in 1849, russia sold at alaska for $7 million. donald trump is upset about that. he will never beat that deal. seeing as russia was our ally in world war i, world war ii, we gettingg the most half a million people in world war i. the united states and britain combined, the russia lost 15 million. they were working on nuclear weapons and we as a nation for some reason or another don't even think about the fact some of our policies are leaving us bur situation in our backyards, nuclear fallout. it is the shame gossip seems to

rule on this planet. you see these policemen shooting individuals in the back, no arms on them and you start putting those on thehe news. we won't have time for anything else but talking about the inhumanity. that is my comment, buddy. >> i hear you about all the terrible things going on in america and i agree with you. that does not justify the terrible things vladimir putin isis doing. a lot of people say we should be thinking about russia to minister to russia maybe they would behavewe themselves. appeasement has proven never to work. if you remember back in world war ii, very famous british prime minister and britain didn't want to be involved in world warr ii. his name is neville chamberlain and he went and had a meetinger with hitler and he thought hitler had gotten something, had made a promise that he was ready

to appease hitler by giving away czechoslovakia. in reality, appeasement didn't work with adolf hitler in appeasement will work with vladimir putin in the world right now where putin is an extremely nasty man causing all sorts of trouble, bombing children in syria, doing a lot of that stuff and the only policy we can have truth to it than russia's one of appeasement.notme >> at the end of year the russian president as a marathon news conference. the headlines in the "washington times" are invented. c-span.org. here is the next. >> we'll all do respect for the opposition in the u.s. that's an object about gone. there have been some themes not

been able to execute like a health care reform for national relationship, promise to improve relations with russia. even if he wanted to do that, he is not able, but does he still haveve this decision? you have to ask him. i really hope he has that desire because it's the threat of the russian and american nation that weat will overcome shared threa, terrorists, terrorism, environmental issues. issues,

what can you glean from his answer? >> what does is terrible things. he invades foreign countries and gets involved i in crazy, dope e olympics, gets involved in meddling in our election and then he says we shoulden work together. yes, of course we should be working together but here you have country with an economy the size of italy that's basically starting its own people and using these resources to cause trouble in the rest of the world and it is out there saying we should work together. well, he's got a responsibility just to stop the bad stuff that he does. we have this possibility as americas. and europe as strong democracies, as free countries to stop him from doing the nasty stuff he is doing.

all this talk of working together only works if he works with us on the terms of civilized western countries,, noncriminal countries and so the duties is on him and the burden is on him to stop doing that stuff he is doing. >> host: an extensive piece cowritten by greg muller and philip rucker of "the washington post"'s front page above the fold how trumps pursuit of has led the universe vulnerable to the us bride and here's a summary of it. your response. >> guest: so far he has not been able to rollback anything because -- so let's look at the chronology. russia hacked the election by hacking dnc and spreading a fake

news and many other things we don't know aboutt. yet. that's a matter of fact. the obama administration in the last days of their administration imposed sanctions on russia for doing that. after those sanctions were put in place andt they are put in place by executive order there was some talk with donald trump came into office that he was thinking about lifting those sanctions. since he was talking aboutd. lifting the sanctions congress got involved and said it was a nonpartisan issue were democrats and republicans got together and they said should o the president be able to lift sanctions on russia on his own volition based on these things that have already been put in place. congress decided the summer on a vote i believe 98-two and 413-four to take away the power from the sanctions where they would vote on them in the future. there has not been an inch given away on a this particular issue. in terms of the importance of making sure that we are not exposed to the stuff in the future i think there's a big

agenda of not allowing russia to metal in the future elections and this has become a partisan issue because many people think that if you put too much attention on the fact that they meddled in the past election that takes away from the legitimacy of the election and i think that whatever happened in the last election we need to look forward and say we shouldn't let any country whether russia or anyone else have an impact on elections here or anywhere else in the world for that matter and my home country of britain this is a big issue and in france and the shouldn't be a partisan issue but an issue of national security. >> host: richard join is from virginia. independent line with bill browder who is in new york. good morning, richard. >> caller: good morning. this issue, antipathy towards russia that is so prevalent today it's thedi media screams t in the bankers scream it. it needs to be understood that vladimir putin did one thing which upset these people so much

and that is he destroyed or removed that central bank that russia had the dominion of the [inaudible] crowd. >> guest: i'm not sureto what im responding to. the central bank of russia was eliminated or i should say the central bank of russia was the russia andnk of there were no other banks in 1991 and then the freed up banking and it allowed the banks to enter and this was a good decade for bottom came in and as a result there are many things in russia and many banks in the world. i don't believe that rothschild bank is in russia. i'm not sure what to say about that. >> host: in case you want to get more information on a guess this

is a piece that he wrote last month available online at cnn .com. why does vladimir boone hate me? what is a summary of this piece. >> guest: the summary of this piece is vladimir putin hates me because in my opinion the primary objective of vladimir putin's presidency has been to accumulate wealth. he has done so by stealing from other people and stealing from the state in order to commit those crimes he said to have a lot ofeo people working for the imprisonment torturing and extorting people for money. and the processes become worth $200 billion in the $200 billion is now at risk because of the [inaudible] act which i was very instrumental in getting past in the united states and four other countries, five other countries. it puts farm implements money at risk and he's very upset about that because that's the thing he cares about and he put all this

work in because it's not easy to steal that money and put her those people and it was hard work for vladimir putin and now all of a sudden there's a chance that money will be frozen in the west and that makes a mad. >> host: that act was passed in 2012 leadpr in the senate by jon mccain, republican of arizona, signed by president obama and enable the us to withhold these as industries financial assetsts of russian officials involved in human rights violations. savanna is joining us from maryland. good morning. >> caller: good morning. mr. browder, i'm a former lobbyist assert associate attorney and i'm a son astonished at what you accomplished. i have context knowing how hard that is. i wanted to ask you what people like me do to further your mission? >> guest: most everything at this point and let me take one steppe back. what happens with flat american

what happened russia is that when we get to the truth of different situations it turns out to be much much worse, 100 times worse than our speculation. recently there was a movie that came out called interest about doping program in russia in the socialistic's. it was an exposé about the person in charge of the doping program fled to america and when he came out here and told us what was really going on it was 100 times worse than what people thought about his exposé. i think the same thing is true in most aspects of what vladimir is up to. the most important thing that you and others can do as citizens in his people engaged in the process is to say that russia is a pride, it's a country that is threatening our well-being and it doesn't which is well and that things are worse than weul think that not better we should contain them to

appease them. it applies to the [inaudible] act in any involvement they might have in election fraud or manipulation imperious other aspects. we need to wake up and become a country that contains russia and doesn't appease russia. >> host: can you provide insight into the personal life of vladimir putin, his wife, his children?es >> guest: i don't think he has much of a personal life anymore. he divorced his wife a while ago. his children, i believe, live outsideey the country and are hidden from view completely. any russian journalist who writes about them binds the publication shut down. they don't have the warm, fuzzy thing like we have in america or we where royal family or the were the presidents family where people are seen walking across the white house lawn or what the wife is wearing in.

in russia it's this cold, stark, lonely place for farmer putin is sitting by himself in a big palace. he doesn't seem to be a man who needs a lot of warmth and i view him as being a sociopathic individual and has no capacity for empathy and not a sympathetic character. >> host: lauren is joining us from alexandria. good morning. >> caller: good morning. how will we get along with process we can done them for everything. trump i know doesn't agree with irving but he's trying to make friends with them. i think acts like the democrats do here in the united states. >> guest: i take a bit of offense to comparing a cold-blooded sociopathic killer with people who you may not agree with. i've been up close and personal he's been involved in the murder or the cover-up of my murder of my lawyer and for us, opposition

politician of mine and other people. this is a different order and this is not about agreeing or disagreeing but like pablo escobar and this man has nukes. different people have different approaches toward differentow political issues and in america and in europe for whatever our differences are between democrats and since i live in london, labor and service, these are minor differences. these are differences will have a person who is basically involved in terror in killing and doing things like that. you got to know vladimir put in the way i've known him you would understand this is not a man we can to strike to buddy up with. he doesn't respect it. he looks at any type of attempts at friendship as weakness and doesn't view it as something that will change his behavior. >> host: built browder because

of the tremendous interest in calls forgetting we will extend and heavy stick around for some more calls and questions. will continue with steve who is joining us from smith creek, michigan. good morning, steve. independently. >> caller: good morning. i hear what you're saying. is a cold-blooded mass murderer and i'd like to liken him to [inaudible] here in the united states. >> guest: again, i'm not here to defend clinton but let me just tell you a story about what you did with my lawyer and then we can decide whether that happened in the united states. my lawyer surrogate was murdered by the regime because he uncovered a massive 230 million-dollar question scheme. promoted people who murdered in the crime that my lawyer discovered and three years after they murdered my lawyer they put him on trial in the first ever trial against the dead man in

the history of russia. whatever differences you may have here and i don't live in united states because i live in the uk but whatever differences between trump and clinton and so forth the department of justice is pleased that people on trial for political reasons they are not chasing around human right activist and trying to kill them. there's a whole other order of magnitude to any other disagreement you may have politically here in the united states. >> host: when was last time youe talk to your partner? >> guest: i was in touch with sir shortly before he was arrested when he was testifying for this tax rebate fraud on a conference call. he was very adamant and angry about what the russian government official saidrn under his country and his patriot

wanted to stop. in retaliation for that they arrested him and tortured him and told him. >> host: jennifer from somerset, new jersey. democrats line. good morning. >> caller: good morning. on herou for being television and this f is good fr us to know. i like to ask you a question. if you can give us information on's activity in south america, alaska, turkey and why america shouldld be concerned? >> guest: great question. a better timee to cover all the areas pulitzer turkey. turkey is a country very close to russia and very strategic for russia and turkey is effectively gone from being an enemy to russia to becoming an ally to vladimir. the turkish president makes him

look like a vegetarian in terms of all of his crackdown in terms of arresting people. vladimir is also involved in venezuela. they have basically are doing what i call predatory lending in venezuela where venezuelans are desperate for cash and vladimir putin is effectively taking over the venezuelan oil industry and what you should know about putin is they basically run a foreign policy where they infringe and get involved in every country of internal affairs and the rentals was projects and hundreds of them and none of them and most of them, i was a, are not successful but everyt once in a while the amazing success. they do not care if 99 out of a hundred are not successful but looking for moments when they have success.

it's not justet meddling in america their meddling in europe and latin america and everywhere. looking to get lucky weekend. >> host: couple of tweaks. this is from what you are saying. and then there is this from audreyho says. take that question. what is involved? >> guest: what the sanctions are about and i'll talk specifically about the act is what happens when it freezes the assets of people that have lived in america and it forbids their travel to america but most importantly in this is something some people don't know is that it asks the opec sanction last. this is the us treasury sanction list and if you get added to that list there is no bank in the world wants to do business with you anymore, not just america but any bank in the world. no bank wants to be in violation

of us sanctions because they can be fined millions and hundreds or even billions of dollars. if you're on the sanctions list the moment you get put on the list to become a financial pariah and are no longer allowed to have a bank account anywhere in the world. that is what gets all these questions and get the vladimir putin regime is the idea that they can be financial pariah is effectively overnight with one swipe of the pen from the us government. >> host: respond to the street from a viewer with a handle and white reserves. >> guest: it is weakness and who does bad stuff and then he says let's be friends. you have to understand it's difficult for civilized people in the west civilized americans and europeans, to look at and understand what his psychology is.

it's so one of the prison yard psychology and it's like everyone in the prison yard is carried around their shanks and about to stab each other. where he comes from and this is different than us and you can't look at him and say he's like us because he is not. he's either kill or be killed. stabbed or be stepped. now were comingg in and saying just be nice to us and he laughs at us. >> host: michael from monroe, new york. the public in line. good morning. >> caller: good morning. i'd like to comment on your guest h saying. tune into hitler. shame. a hitler killed jews systematically and is a jew friend. i admire your work but your dguest field to represent whats

security is immediate for america. for instance, for such a bigger threat from iran which america and the obama administration try to friend and they also killed people. i would like to get an answer to these questions. >> guest: well, the question is really what is more threatening, russia or iran? i would argue that russia is more of a threat to the national security of america and iran. why do i say that? because russia is the single largest stockpile of nuclear weapons of any country in the world in russia is on the border of europe which are our allies in a buffer between us and them is that russia is planning to recently

decided for the first time since the second world war to redraw the map of europe by invading a foreign country, ukraine. russia has also or vladimir putin has also been involved in killing in syria innocent peop people, supporting the assad regime and thehe use of chemical weapons and also some other things. i should also point out that russia is very actively involved with iran. i think any objective analysis if you light it up and dispassionately put aside prejudices is a more dangerous person than just about anyone else in the world right now. it may not people who have preconceived paper but that's what you come to. >> host: augustine, georgia, your next. >> caller: thank you, steve. thank you bill for your act of courage and patriotism. i'm a former us marine and i've

done traveling as marine and will travel instantly close capacity but i was looking at my passports from around the world and my passport and i wanted to thank you for your act of courage and your true act of patriotism and am also a fellow illinois was proud of your true american spirit and i mean that the bottom of my heart. i don't see this as a political person and i did watch your testimony at congress, you're very straight shooter and i would trust you with my investments i had them to make but any case i just want to thank you very much for your american spirit and you represent freedom very well and i encourage, physical courage. god bless you. >> guest: thank you. i'm no longer in the business of managing money but a full-time human rights activist. i wouldn't manage her money but i do appreciate your support and i'm trying and doing and my

campaign is not about left and right, republican or democrat, totally nonpartisan but this is about fighting evil and evil sorts of different clothes and skin and we found a way to fight evil. the evil of the century which involves dictators do terrible things in their country and i want to keep their money safe in the west. i should point out that my campaign has gone beyond russia. we now have a global act and it targets bad guys, dictators, killers from everywhere and it's a piece of legislation and recently passed in the uk and passed in estonia and in the name of serge we want to create consequences for bad guys.

>> host: the president once again said there is absolutely no collusion between his campaign and the russian government. what is your response? >> guest: we don't know whether there is or isn't but we know russian government wanted to influence the outcome here and we don't know whether they were engaged or whether it was a unilateral or bilateral effort. for all sitting here is arm chair as policeman and investigators with 11000's of the information that law-enforcement in the united states has. robert mueller and his team are extremely capable individuals. they have access to wiretaps and access to subpoena powers and access to witnesses the likes of which none of us have access to. we have tiny little pieces of the puzzle in eventually the puzzle will crystallize. it will crystallize that there was nothing or it will crystallize that there was collusion.

in the meantime i will not speculate based on insufficient information and ile don't thinki have to because he will get the answer from people who will have the answer. >> host: any insight because you up earlier at the meeting that took place in june of lastly year between donald trump junior and that russian lawyer. >> guest: my insights are that we know exactly what the russians wanted in that meeting and that is the one thing that everyone has agreed on in that meeting and has said so is that they try to repeal the magnitsky act. my insight from that is that the russians would not have tried to repeal the most important piece of human rights legislation in the century if they didn't have something equal to offer and so we don't know what that was that they were offering. and we don't know whether it was accepted. all we can say with any degree of certainty is what they wanted. and we can't say with any certainty what happened after that. this will eventually come out one way or the other with this investigation but in the

meantime everyone is on all the sides of this argument are already speculating and we should wait and see what we welcome our listeners on c-span radio, heard coast-to-coast on sirius xm. dave from. kansas you are next. >> caller: thank you. thank you for all your work. my question is regarding the next steps of tracking the money with block chain and that point on the rise it seems like a haven for people to hide dark money. as your asks their friends what are the bad guys doing to stay one step ahead and what can the international community do to try to keep pace with them? you very much. >> guest: i'm glad you asked that question. i was just in washington testified before congress about the 25th anniversary of the trim six and i was discussing where the strengths and weaknesses were in one of the

big strengths of the magnitsky act was the rise of bitcoin and other capital currencies. the beauty of the current sanction regime is that it does, as i said, create a pariah are the people who are sanctioned because when you can do business in the banking system you're basically sunk. however, with the advent of the coin and untraceable crypto currencies this is like a gift fromn es f god for dictators, cs and other gangsters. at the moment it's unregulated. same way that facebook and twitter were unregulated and bad guys took advantage of those to try to change people's perception with big news and types of things. we have a big problem. washington is behind the curve on this thing and it's a big, big issue which needs to be addressed. crypto currencies, anonymous use of the currencies have only one great benefit and that is for

criminals and it needs to be regulated and stopped. >> host: oklahoma, clyde, good morning. democrat line yeah,om well, hel. >> host: go ahead, clyde. >> caller: [inaudible] >> host: comment on the question. go ahead, sir. >> guest: i become very sensitized to russians and what they want and what their aspirations are. i should point out this is really important that when i'm talking about but americans are not talking about r russians. there's 141 million russians and 140 of them are decent and

hard-working and the best people you'll come across and there's 1 million criminals were occupying the country. was working for one american. the average russian -- you'd be amazed how decent and good these people are. i feel bad for the russians and my wife is russian and my staff is russian and they are some of the best people on earth but they been terribly mistreated by these very vicious criminals that are occupying their country. >> host: can russia help us with regard to north korea? >> guest: i believe that china is the key to north korea, not russia.th plus a and vitamin always tries to insert themselves into the international situation to become a spoiler. he could cause harm to our situation in north korea and i wouldn't be surprised if some of the nasty stuff coming out of north korea as brush and fingerprints on it. i think at the end of the day china is the key to north korea not russia. >> host: i want to put on the screen a photograph from the 1980s. president reagan in moscow, red

square, shaking the hand of a young russian boy and find him is vladimir putin. my question, bill potter, is how does someone who worked for the kgb in the 80s become the russian leader and such a dominant leader in this country? >> guest: it was kind of anes accident. when boris yeltsin was the president of russia he was getting oldid and decrepit and e couldn't last much longer and this was around 1999 and the people around the oligarchs decided they needed to have nesomeone replace yelton who wouldn't take back their money and boris yeltsin wanted someone who would replace them if they departed him on the first day about crimes he had committed. they looked around in the past theey guy in the prime ministero come i in to be his potential replacement in his name was sergey [inaudible] and he didn't last long. then they picked another guy called sergey [inaudible] former head of the police in russia or

not he didn't work out very well another guy [inaudible] he did work out well. vladimir putin was the fourth guy they picked to the prime minister to replace boris yeltsin and he was like a fourth choice and no one knew who this guy was the most part he seemed reliable and he wasn't a drinker and all is cost often and this guy comes in and he effectively does an entire kgb coup of the country. i think it was a bad mistake and boris yelton believed that it was a mistake when he saw what happened and many other people believe the same thing. it's a sad thing with what happened to russia with the weight vladimir putin quietly came in and took over the country for his own credit queens. >> host: philip from oklahoma. good morning yes, you had a call or a minute ago said something about not being a mass murderer ho aboutmember something him blowing up an airplane that

had 200 some people on it. my next comment is no collusion that what happened the meeting at trump tower, i haven't heard anything anymore about adopting se russian children. nothing. so there has to be collusion. let muller do his job. the republicans need to get off of that and let him do his job and they must be getting close to trumped otherwise i think they might -- they are just starting to stir up trouble about that. >> host: thank you, phil. let's get a response. >> guest: thank you for bringing up the mh 17 which was the malaysian airlinerot shut down 2 in the innocent civilians were killed and the russians were shooting ats the. but america was involved in setting up apartment bombs across russia and then blamed it

on the chechens when he first came to power. 2000 people died and 10000 people have been killed in ukraine and there should not have been a war in ukraine. hundreds if not thousands of innocence in syria have been bombed using russian bombers. is an extremely nasty piece of work and a lot of terrible stuff and anyone who tries to in any way take away that responsibility from him is doing the wrong thing. in terms of collusion i agree with the caller and let's just wait and find out what the answer is from law enforcement. why speculate in the meantime. >> host: steve from fishers, indiana. good morning. you're on the air with the broader. morning.: yes, good the current prime minister of poland claims his brother when primeentleman was minister was killed along with some other polish leaders in an airplane crash and he insists that was responsible.

does mr. browder have any information on that or does he believe that and that is my question. >> guest: excellent question. i read the same story yesterday. basically from my experience and i've been close to a number of investigations involving murders and other atrocities committed by vladimir putin and generally the news as you dig deeper it's much worse than you think. personally i do not believe that was an innocent pilot error and i don't believe the president of a silent sovereign state would have ann incompetent pilot and the whole thing strikes me as being odd. in the article i read yesterday what you are referring to, i think, the new president of poland has reopened anla investigation and they believe there were two explosions on that airplane before it went down with the previous president of poland and most of the

cabinet. it strikes me as a kind of thing that vladimir would do although i don't have evidence one way or iter to prove or disprove but i think it be interesting to watch that. >> host: go back to the issue of north korea, bill potter, because the president was asked about that before heading on marine one earlieres today. this is from the south lawn at the white house. let's listen. >> it was great. he said very nice things about what i've done for this country in terms of the economy but he also said negative things in terms of what is going on elsewhere but the primary point was to talk about north korea because love to have his help on korea. china is helping, russia is not helping and we like to have russia's help. one that was the president earlier this morning. the broader, your reaction. >> guest: i think russia should help. people not give them any favors and we will not exonerate them from their misdeeds for help. that is effectively -- if that

is what i think it is then is effectively doing hostagetaking here and my hostage is the investigations going on and the infringementve i've done if they want to help. that's not how this works. if they want help, this is a country with the economy the size of italy. the military budget 15th of ours. we don't need to run by the sky. he should be offering help to us on a complimentary basis. >> host: if you travel outside the major metropolitan areas like moscow what is lifelike inside russia? >> guest: most people in russia are suffering from poverty to their suffering from destitution and the reason they are on the roads are -- you can drive into potholes the size of cars and there is no proper medical care

and the schools are not staffed with teachers and no payment and this is a rich country. 10% of the world natural gas and the reason for all that is because all the money has been stolen by about a thousand corrupt senior officials andli oligarchs. it's a tragic situation of the country that should be a strong, middle income country where thec average person is living in destitute poverty. >> host: sandy from cleveland, ohio. good morning. democrat line. >> caller: good morning. how are you? it sounds like to me the russian government is really looking at having sanctions lifted from the magnitsky act in it seems like congress has the last word on it so i am wondering what are the advantage piece for the russian government if the sanctions have to be listed from the magnitsky act how will that when you're

dealing with what you said i think $200 million or more the russian government has more than that in the bank account probably. what will the advantage for the russian government to have the sanctions lifted? >> host: thank you, sandy. bill potter was seen $200 billion was the estimated worth of p. >> guest: it's not for the russian people but what they're worried about is the sanctions on individuals. vladimir putin is worried about the patient himself. the oligarchs around him are worried about being sanctioned and what they are doing with the world because the sanctions have gone against him personally and that's the beauty of the sanctions is that they will target the russian people in the target individuals and it goes

after the people were stealing from the russian people. when i was testifying in congress yesterday i sat next to the famous chess champ to be in his russian about my age and he was saying in the testimony in theress talking about magnitsky act that the magnitsky act is the single most precious thing oute there because it gos after the russian crooks and the guys stealing from the russian people. sport people want to follow you or get more information about your work what is the best way to do so. >> guest: i'm active on her. bill potter att the broader. i'm talking about my campaign and i'mm talking about how it affects the united states in europe and i'm carrying on and i'll be doing this a long time james, jacksonville, florida. in line. good morning. >> caller: wanted to get your thoughts on the russian

collusion with the attempt to repeal neutrality. all i have to say is i'm a college student and i go to ucs and ip for their internet there and a big thing that college and still is a streamne live video d my concern is why would russia and the fcc be against one that price -- what we apologize for that. i thought he was good going that direction but we expect better questions and more tolerant. want to justin in stillwater, oklahoma. >> caller: yeah, hi. i wanted to see if i could go back to the school hostage thing and i think if i remember it was near the beginning of vladimir. tenure and i think about some of

the outrage and antigovernment sentiment that was t started hee with the response to waco and i wonder why people don't look at that kind of approach basically just going violently and taking over and letting a lot of hostages be shot. >> host: thank you, justin. bill prouder you are shaking her head to what we need to understand is that he doesn't care about casualties in these situations so he's talking about schoolol taken over in chechnya and there were many, many childreng taken hostage and vladimir was more bored aboutut killing the hostae takers that he was about saving the hostages. hundreds of children were killed in these situations. the difference russia in america

is the reason why he doesn't care is that he doesn't operate in a democracy where he can be thrown out for mishandling a situation like this. he can effectively stop the ballot boxes and there's no real democracy. there's been ais number of these terrorist incidences where basically he goes and kills everyone in the room and there is something called [inaudible], a theater in the same thing happened many, many people died this happens over and over again. this is one of the big symptoms of a dictatorship or the dictator just does not care because it's no consequence to him. >> host: them your perspective what is the best way for us to understand vladimir putin? >> guest: i will give you a plug for my book. if you want to understand

vladimir properly read my book called red notice. it's a true story of high finance murder and one man's fight for justice. my book is not a [inaudible] read but it tells my story of fighting with get a full, clear, crystallized understanding of who this guy is by reading my book. it reads like a spy story, a real-life spy story and everyone reads it and comes away with this bill, i knew it was bad for a no idea he was this bad. >> host: what is next in terms for you to draw attention to your former partner, this act and our relations or the lack thereof. >> guest: my big project now is to take the magnitsky act which is passed in the united states and canada and lithuania and to globalize it. your many other countries to sign up for it and get it to be dealing withof murder, torture and other countries and have it be the legacy so that surrogates life and his death was endless and meaningless and his life had

impact on others in the world. >> host: william browder, thank you for your time in europe. appreciate it. >> guest: thank you. >> c-span's washington journal live every day the news and policy issues that impact you. coming up saturday morning: be sure to watch c-span's washington journal live at seven eastern saturday morning. join the discussion.

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