gun. >> watch c-span's cities tour of springfield, missouri, saturday at noon eastern on c-span2's tv, , and sunday at 2 p.m. on american history tv on c-span3. working with our cable affiliates as we explore america jerk. >> next, hearing on combating online sex trafficking and briefing the legislation that would allow states and victims to sue websites. from a house energy and commerce subcommittee this is one hour 50 minutes. >> we will now come to order. i am sorry that we are few minutes late in beginning, but we have this thing left to do around here called votes. and we did have a vote on the

floor and in the middle of it a colloquy concerning our schedule. at this time i recognize myself for five minutes for an opening statement. good afternoon and a warm welcome to all of our witnesses. we are here and white house turned out to be an absolute gorgeous day in washington, d.c., but we are here to talk about a very ugly subject, and that is online sex trafficking, or as the name of ms. smith's organization describes it more bluntly, slavery. as the stings and the headlines continue to proliferate, those who thought that slavery was something that could never happen in 2017 america, have had to confront the terrifying reality that not only is it happening, it is on the rise. and it is on the rise in large part because the internet, the technological masterpiece of our

time, has made it much, much easier to do. in both the house and the senate this year, we are facing up to the challenge with a long overdue conversation driving toward effective action. with this hearing, it is my hope that the communications and technology subcommittee, with our particular focus, will add some valuable perspective about exactly what is going wrong and what is going right on the tech side as the lowest of the low harness the power of the internet to enslave and exploit our children. i am so very pleased that ms. smith and mr. winkle have been able to join us today to tell their stories of how tennessee has been impacted by this abhorrent crime. like so many of the districts that my colleagues here represent, our home has been invaded by criminals luring in vulnerable women and children, and forcing them into a life of

sex slavery and unspeakable abuse. i know that you both share my deep sadness and outrage that this is happening in our own backyard, and i cannot thank you enough for rescuing these victims, then helping them heal while seeking justice for the abusers. you were doing us a purpose job. for the fifth year in a row, get this, tennessee received in a on his report card into protected innocent challenge, a comprehensive annual study of existing state laws and this is compiled by shared hope international. the challenge produces state report cards that rate how effectively each state responds to the crime of domestic minor sex trafficking. after four years of straight a's, tennessee outdid itself this year by leading the

rankings, number one in the country. what a testimony to the partnership between tennessee law enforcement and victim advocates that you have built and grown together over the years. we are honored that you would taking time away. the debate this year's focus on amendments to section 230 of the communications decency act, which law enforcement has consistently identified as a barrier preventing effective prosecution of online entities that facilitate trafficking, and adequate recourse for trafficking victims. today we welcome my colleague and dear friend mrs. wagner, who has led the charge in the house. i look forward to hearing her testimony about her efforts to find an effective approach to attack and defeat this problem. she has been a passionate and tireless advocate, and i am proud to be a cosponsor of her bill.

i also want to welcome and we look for to hearing the concerns and the perspective of ms. souras and mr. goldman as we consider next steps. with so many women and children waiting on us and counting on us, doing nothing is not an option. this time i yield back my time and i recognize mr. doyle for five minutes. >> thank you, madam chair for holding this important hearing, and thank you to the witnesses for appearing before us today. human trafficking in all its forms, and in particular, sexual trafficking of children and adults, is an abort crime. i want to thank the witnesses here today from end slavery tennessee, the national center for missing and exploited children and the tennessee bureau of investigation. this is hard work you all do and i know that it carries a heavy burden. for my part of what you thank you for your efforts and the efforts of your organizations.

be assured this is an issue of great concern to all of us. i also want to thank representative wagner for testifying before us today. i understand that this is an issue that you been working on for some time, and that the save act that you wrote in which is become law is starting to be used to combat online sex trafficking. i also understand that in reference to the bill before us today, you're working with chairman goodlatte on an amendment in the nature of a substitute to your bill, in hope it will be marked up into judiciary committee. i'm hopeful you be able to move your amended bill out of committee and before the full house for a vote. i also wanted notice the good work being done by senators mccaskill and portman, and the senate permanent subcommittee on investigations. in investigation and report released on backpage.com. this report is truly frightening. the report alleges that back page knowingly facilitated child sex trafficking.

i'm deeply concerned about emails sent by back page moderators seeking to limit the number of ads the reporting in ncmec on a monthly basis. in addition, according to the report backpay to repeatedly edited an alternate ads by deleting words, phrases and images that would indicate child sex trafficking without reporting those ads to ncmec or other authorities. again, according to this report these edits were done for the express purpose of concealing the illegal nature of these activities. back page went so far as to deploy software that automatically deleted terms from ads before publication, words such as amber alert, rape, young and fresh. this filter was apparently deployed for the purpose of concealing the true nature of the transactions that were occurring on the site. the report goes on to say that by their own internal estimates they were editing between 70-80% of the ads in the adult section

of their side. back page would go on to start rejecting ads that contained these words but then they would do so with a pop-up that would include explicit instructions for advertisers as to what the offending word or phrase was and how they could repost their ad to get around their filters. back page use similar techniques when advertisers posted ads identifying people has under 18, simply instructing users to change the posted age in order for the ad to be posted. to my mind this report indicates a fast criminal enterprise that i am hardened by reports that there are ten to multiple veteran investigations using insights from the senate report, and an impaneled grand jury. my hope is that justice can be done. madam chair, thank you for the string and i get back. >> gentleman yield back. ms. brooks, you are recognized. we'll see if chairman walden makes it but your recognize for your comments. >> thank you, madam chair. and i am very, very pleased to

see our colleague and a leader in the house of representatives, representative wagner, who has since we came in together five years ago has been a strong strong voice fighting for the victims and educating the american people about back page and other avenues of sex trafficking. i just want to take a moment to commend the state of indiana. i was involved as nice states attorney from 2001-2007 entering the time the bush of message but he should focus on on exportation and on child exploitation. and we started an effort called ipab now which is about protection against human trafficking. and it brings together law enforcement, victim services. puts in place protocols but i will tell you that the criminals and the perpetrators are always trying to stay one step ahead. they are always trying to find

ways to exploit children, women, and others in order to satisfy their sexual desires. and it's very, very difficult work. law enforcement work around the world to find victims, and the webs they have created and the perpetrators which coordinate around the world are something that we must continue to pursue with every avenue we possibly can. and victims, and finally, i just want to focus on the victims, the victims of this type of sexual exploitation, sexual trafficking can be found in every district in our country from urban areas to rural areas to suburban areas. and i think people are often shocked when you read in our papers or read about the victims here can we must make sure that we're there for the victims. i just want to commend ann wagner and so many members on both sides of the aisle who have

stepped up to really lead the charge and try and say that we cannot allow this type of human slavery in this day and age to continue, and we must continue to fight it. i just want to thank my colleague from missouri for being a leader, and i yield back. >> gentlelady's time back. is there any other members seeking recognition? no other member seeking recognition. the gentlelady yields back. at this time i want to recognize mr. pallone who is not here for his five minutes. any other member seeking recognition? mr. doyle? >> i forgot. i need to ask unions consider in her into the record a letter to yourself and myself from professor alexander levy of the university of notre dame osco. >> without objection, so ordered. all right. at this point our first witness for today's panel will include ms. ann wagner, representing missouri's second congressional

district, who will give opening remarks regarding her efforts on the issue. ms. wagner, you are recognized for five minutes. >> i thank you, madam chairman, and ranking member doyle, and colleagues are hosting this committee hearing today. and for allowing me to get some opening remarks. i appreciate your commitment to addressing online trafficking, and especially appreciate that so many members of this subcommittee have publicly cosponsored h.r. 1865 stopping the victimization of america's children and adults online is my top priority in congress. and i know i have an ally in chairman blackburn. i also appreciate subcommittee members at intense anger and yvette yvette clarke being original cosponsors of my bill. my first major piece of legislation concerning online trafficking was the save act which became law in 2015.

the save act was a first step in addressing federal level prosecutions of websites. unfortunately, it is not yet been used, presumably because the mens rea stand in the legislation knowingly is too high. moreover,, the save act was federally focused and it did not enable states and local prosecutors to protect their communities. i have learned a lot since event, and this is what over a year and half ago i begin working on h.r. 1865, the allowed states and victims to fight online sex trafficking act, or fosta. it would -- it would empower local prosecutors to take down websites that facilitate trafficking before they ever reached the size or the scope of

backpage.com. the house understands that enabling vigorous criminal enforcement is not just important, but mandatory in any legislation we pass. this is what over 107 of my colleagues cosponsored fosta when i personally extend to the mount websites can perpetuate modern day slavery with impunity. what are these websites able to sell our children? because judges have ruled that section 230 prevents websites that exploit the most vulnerable members of our society from being held accountable. congress response to these rulings must be patently clear. section 230 of the the communications decency act was never intended to allow businesses to commit crimes online that they could never commit off-line. when congress passed communications he decency act in

1996 it explicitly acted to prevent the internet from becoming a red light district and it clearly did not believe that rape was a prerequisite of a free and open internet. what congress cannot do is pass a bill that amend section 230 that is so narrow that it could only be used to prosecute backpage.com. let me be plain jerk i support the state and its recent action on my legislative proposal. i appreciate the complicated strategic environment that senators blumenthal and portman and others operating in and i believe that it is a step in the right direction but the senate bill is not the full solution. backpage.com is currently asked mr. doyle stated the largest of the websites that facilitate trafficking in america, but it is already under federal investigation. and it is just a small, small

piece, small piece of this growing criminal echo system. hundreds, let me underscore, hundreds of advertising sites have jumped into the marketplace of illegal sex pic for instance, arrows serves as a high-end market. s-corps in college advertises women close to and under the age of consent. and massage troll is sadly popular in my own district. thanks your senator portman investigation of wealth of evidence against backpage.com has been discovered over the past year and while it may now be possible, though still in kobe difficult to prove that backpage.com knowingly, is not possible to gather this level of evidence for the hundreds of others websites that are profiting from the sex trade. i have spoken with prosecutors across the country who had asked the house to pass a practical solution that will allow them to take predatory websites on the internet. and i am repeatedly told that

any legislation that depends exclusively on the knowingly mens rea standard is merely an washington d.c. feel-good exercise. congress might pat itself on the back but will have accomplished little to prevent the sale of victims online. fosta is centered on the reckless disregard standards that prosecutors need to open cases on bad actor websites, , d we must find a way to maintain a useful mens rea standard, or at the very least, not raise very high bar that victims must always me. if we are serious about helping victims, we must create laws that allow for a robust state and local criminal enforcement. criminal enforcement means is is is will spit out of illegal sex trade. fewer people will ever become victims. demand will be reduced and yes,

civil suits will be easier to bring. criminals who auctioned our children will be put behind bars. i believe in closing we can mark up a bipartisan house bill that will provide meaningful tools to prevent future victimization, and i look forward to working with you to pass a forward facing, forward facing solution that will disrupt the online trafficking industry. i think you madam chairman. i thank you all and the committee and my colleagues for allowing me to give his opening remarks. >> gentlelady yields back. we thank you so much for your remarks and your well wishes that will move forward. at this time we will briefly recess long enough to put the new nameplates up and we will welcome our panel to the table. [inaudible conversations]

[inaudible conversations] >> at this time we welcome our second panel of witnesses. yiota souras, who is the senior vp and general counsel for the national center for missing and exploited children. ms. derri smith, ceo of end slavery tennessee. mr. russ winkler, assistant special agent in charge of the tennessee bureau of investigation, and mr. eric goldman, a professor at santa clara university school of law. welcome to each of you. we appreciate that you are here

today. we are going to our testimony with you, ms. souras per each of you will have five minutes. i ask that you move the microphone to you, such the button in the center so that you activate it and at the end of your five minutes, we will begin the questioning portion of this hearing. ms. souras, you are recognized for fibers. >> thank you. chairman blackburn, ranking member doyle and members of the committee i am honored to be a today on behalf of of the national center for missing and exploited children, and to join the discussion to ensure that america's most vulnerable victims, children trafficked online for rape and sexual abuse, have opportunities for justice against their traffickers, including those who participate in trafficking them online. i'd like to thank congresswoman wachter for her long-standing dedication to child sex

trafficking victims, and her tireless work to create meaningful change for the survivors. as part of our work as a congressionally designated resource center on missing and exploited children, ncmec misses approximately 9800 reports of child sex trafficking every year. over the past five years, 88% of these reports have involved a child being trafficked online. more than 74 of this report from the public relay to an add on the back page. in recent years we've learned an enormous amount about the complexity, worthlessness, and profitability of the sale of children for sex online. but we've also seen courts struggle and fail to hold websites liable for facilitating sex trafficking. today we are at a crossroads on our how best to proceed with legislation that combats this heinous crime. courts have been unable to find their way around the current

application of the cda, statute that is over 21 years old and has created broad immunity, even for websites that support online child sex trafficking. these courts have called on congress to clarify that all facilitators of online sex trafficking, including websites, are not legally protected. the house of representatives anderson and worked on parallel tracks to develop bills that respond to the recent court decisions, and reconciled cda with protections granted to victims under the federal trafficking statute. we believe these bills address the specific legal barriers paid by child sex trafficking victims, coalesce around three legislative solutions. first, ensuring that state attorneys general have the authority to protect children in their own states and can bring criminal and civil actions against online entities that participate in sex trafficking.

second, clarifying that sex trafficking victims can pursue civil remedies against everyone who participates in their trafficking, including websites. and third, defining participation in a trafficking venture under federal law as assisting, supporting, or facilitating sex trafficking. these broad legislative solutions specifically respond to a courts have called on congress to do, provide children with access to justice and hold websites that facilitate sex trafficking responsible. ncmec has assisted tens of thousands of children victimized by online sex trafficking. behind the current debate about the particular details and standards within the legislative proposals, are horrific experiences suffered by these children who are defenseless against predators selling them for rape and sexual abuse online. ncmec has worked closely with

many sex trafficking victims whose cases have been dismissed due to the current broad interpretation of the cpas immunity. we've witnessed the anguish of these children's recovery and effort or hopelessness when courts dismissed the cases against websites that facilitated their trafficking. victims have been denied justice due to the cda include a 14-year-old girl who was trafficked online for two years and advertise and sexually explicit poses. 15-year-old girls, one who was raped over 1000 times while trafficked online for just over a year. and a second girl who was trafficked online for two years and sold from five to 15 customers a day. cases like this remind us of the ongoing suffering of victims and urgency to move forward with current legislation that addresses pass cases and has broad support from all key stakeholders, including the tech

sector. ncmec believes legislation that includes the three core solutions outline more fully in my written test we will provide powerful tools to ensure the rights of child victims by protecting current law that encourages a robust internet. chairman blackburn, we couldn't agree with you more when you said and yesterdays news asked anybody idly is simply not an option. it is time that we hold companies accountable for their actions when they cross the line. we been encouraged by the senate legislative progress, including the support of the internet association and facebook, , and are hopeful under your leadership a similar path forward can be accomplished in the house. in conclusion, we stand ready to assist the committee so that at the end of the day a bill can move expeditiously to the president and ask for enactment into law. thank you. >> gentlelady yields back. ms. smith, you are for five minutes. >> chairman blackburn, ranking

member doyle, members of the subcommittee thank you for holding this hearing on this important topic. it's an honor to offer testimony on the impact of technology on human trafficking victims and survivors. the sexual exploitation perpetrated against women, men, boys and girls in the commercial sex industry is found all across the internet. there's no place for survivor of human trafficking to hide because their victimization is already on display for all to see. the public victimization exponentially complicates the healing process. in the early days of this work i met two girls from atlanta. they were deceived by a girl that that was their friend, held by child safety locks, and driven to nashville by their trafficker. the trafficker got a hotel room, pop an ad up online and was in business within half an hour. i was struck with how easy it was for him to sell those girls, is easiest advertising a bicycle

or a car for sale. i was also struck with how quickly men arranged to have sex with these young people. ssas ordering a pizza. in my years since i've heard hundreds of variations of this story. at least three out of four of the survivors we serve are advertised online, and others were recruited and groomed online. thankfully and undercover detective was answering online ads that day posing as a john. he came to the girls room and ended the exportation within days of its start. they were the lucky ones. once recovered, , survivors stil face threats from predators online who are waiting for them to surface. especially in the early days of survivor recovery, our efforts to monitor online activity are more challenging than simply monitoring phone usage. there are temptations, dangers, and master manipulators ready to

entice survivors back into exploitation. when the tennessee bureau of investigation began proactively attacking human trafficking, they called end slavery tennessee or systems. first they wanted to understand the technology landscape and how it affected victims. how were victims recruited, bought and sold across the internet. they needed first-hand information and what of our young survivors was willing to tell them all she knew about being trafficked online. secondly, the tbi wanted a more direct partnership during the undercover operations. that meant our survivor intervention specialist in case manager on-site during the operation. when tbi identified the victim she met with end slavery tennessee staff. asian women were offered services and way out of exploitation that very day -- these young women. some took the offer, others did not but he did understand that the author did not have an expiration date. the goal was to turn that scary

and often negative interaction with law enforcement into one of hope. once you survive it comes to end slavery tennessee the plant at care often depends on drug addiction, prior victimization can link the time enslaved and the age of the victim. we provided care and services to survivors from the age of four to 52 for the primary focus on liners age 25 and in eight languages. in the past five years were gone from operating out of one office to a small suite of offices and now to a care center and three safehouses. we currently care for about 190 survivors a year a year in nashville, and the surrounding area. survivors need a plethora of rapper and service to their every need. because trafficking victim suffer complex post-traumatic stress disorder, the restorative process can and usually does take years.

to compound of the trump of trafficking, most victims were abused as children or suffered from a range of other adverse childhood experiences that made them vulnerable to exploitation in the first place. it's essential and agency offer case management and the comprehensive array of specialized services in kelly survivor is ready to leave a productive and stable life. in tennessee we as a single point of entry model with one agency in each of the four regions of the state whose entire focus is on providing intensive case management and restoration of victims. together we from the tennessee anti-slavery alliance. this approach ensures that quality consistent trauma informed services are provided statewide in the most effective and efficient possible, and that victims don't fall between the cracks. thank you for this opportunity to address the committee, and i welcome your questions later. >> gentlelady yields back.

mr. winkler, you are recognized for five minutes. >> thank you. chairman blackburn, ranking member doyle, members of the subcommittee, thank you for inviting me today. i is special agent george with the tennessee bureau of investigation and codirector of the tennessee fusion center. one of my responsibilities is to oversee human sex trafficking investigations. since 2011 our governor and my boss tbi director can we been given better tools to combat this disgusting crime. we are proud that this year tennessee ranked number one on the state report card, that is due in large part to the sustain focus of our state leadership. as i stated talking with you, i am overseeing 66 active human sex trafficking investigations with minor victims in big cities and small towns across tennessee. in most of these cases a sex trafficking perpetrator takes the child and forces, threatens,

or courses her, the victim is nearly almost always a a femal, to engage in sex acts for money. in our experience most cases involving the posting of the ads for underage sex on backpage.com, but back page is not the only site. to identify people seeking to engage in commercial sex acts with underage females, we use young appearing female law enforcement officers to post ads online offering sex acts. we see these ads with terms like new to town that her are code n that environment for underage females. the undercover agent establish that there under 18 and phone and text conversations with potential johns all have been men so far in our investigations. numerous men are not deterred by their juvenile status, and eventually show up at the hotels where we set up encounters with undercover agents. they just meet with them in any

hotel room and again engage in conversation that proves that the offenders think that they are under age. money is given to the undercover agents at the men are probably approached by uniform law enforcement officers who are waiting in the next room. for us this is unfortunately a routine operation. the demand is staggering and we know we are not unique among states. our most recent undercover operation and national suburb resulted in 21 minutes being apprehended over a three day time frame where they came to halt around to engage in sex acts with undercover female agents who they believed were juveniles. to target traffickers of underage girls we use mail undercover tbi agents posing as johns. our undercover respond advertisements that are fusion center intelligence analysts find on backpage.com. our analysts use advanced software called spotlight to help identify ads that have a strong likelihood of being

minors. rescuing victims of human sex trafficking is a priority for us. we have established strong cooperative relationships with nonprofit organizations and rusty childhood protective agency. the nonprofit organization end slavery tennessee sometimes on-site during operations pick that offer services him early on scene women who come to the hotels answering back page apps. we have conducted operations and investigations involving numerous perpetrators and victims pick the one constant we encounter in our investigations is the use of online platforms like backpage.com by buyers and sellers of underage sex. before i close i want to point out that human sex trafficking cases offer another example of a crime that is enabled through emergency communication technology. victims are marketed on sites like backpage.com and traffickers and johns often use

anonymous smart phone applications to facilitate and hide their negotiations over these children. this creates unique law enforcement challenges which are sometimes referred to as going dark challenges. so while we need tools to discourage online platforms from facilitating commerce children it is -- we need law enforcement to get additional evidence we need to investigate these horrible crimes. i appreciate the invitation to testify today and look forward to your questions. >> gentleman yields back. mr. goldman, you are recognized for five minutes. >> thank you. chairman blackburn, ranking member doyle and members of the subcommittee, i applaud the efforts of congress and this subcommittee to combat the horrible crime of sex trafficking. these efforts include the loud states of victims fight online sex trafficking act of 2017 called fosta.

base on the expertise of internet law, i'll discuss implications for 47 47 usc 230e law that says congress enacted in 1996 that says websites are not liable for third-party content. section 230 ranks as congress is most come one of congress is most important policy achievements in the last quarter century. section 230 touches deeply each of our lives by enabling the internet services we rely upon every waking hour. it advances free speech by helping ordinary people communicate with a global audience of the first time in history. furthermore, section 230 empress marketplace efficiency across our entire economy and reduces entry barriers so that new and innovative online services can keep emerging. section 230 as a global unique policy. no other country provide such strong protections for online publishers of third-party content. this differentiation gives the united states the global

competitive advantage for such services which has helped create enormous social value in the united states. congress enacted section 230 in response to 1995 ruling that an online service could be liable for user content because it had removed other objectionable content. the ruling created a dilemma for all online services that moderate user content pick online services had to choose between two strategies, one, exercise full editorial control over user content, and accept liability for whatever legally problematic content the best. or two, minimize potential liability for exercising no editorial control over user content. some services can't afford to exercise full editorial control. others can't function with full editorial control. if failing to moderate content perfectly to liability, some online services will abandon efforts to moderate user content or even shut down.

section 230 a limited this this moderators dilemma. section 230 applies records of what online services due to moderate content even with a note about user content. this means online services can deploy and experiment with a wide range of content moderation techniques without fear and by billy for what they miss. this helps online services but it also ups people access publication tools that let them reach new audiences. fosta would reinstate the delimiter for the first time in over two decades it will cause online services to question why they should moderate content. some services will conclude it's too risky to do so to give online services reduce or eliminate their moderation effort, fosta make counter productive because a net increase in sex trafficking promotions and all of the types of antisocial content. section 230 does not give us free pass to online services who are involved in sex trafficking.

as is not limit federal prosecution of the department of justice has prosecuted online services for publishing third-party ads including at least two prosecutions against services, my redbook, the facility online prostitution. furthermore and the 2015 say that congress criminalize online advertising of sex trafficking and a phoenix grand jury has been investigating back page. congress can balance additional anti-sex traffic initiative with section 230 by, one, ensuring that online services face only a single federal standard of liability rather than state-by-state variations that will make it difficult or impossible for online services to determine what law applies to the. q, , encouraging online services to continue performing socially viable content moderation efforts by facing liability on an online services content to facilitate illegal activities, not unwanted nose and especially

saying that online services shall not be legally penalized for their moderation efforts. i oppose fosta because it does not conform to either principal. thank you for the opportunity to address the subcommittee on this very important matter. >> thank you, mr. goldman. gentleman yields back. that concludes our testimony. at this time i have several documents enter for the record. shared hope international exit is cry, the national center on sexual exploitation and the coalition against trafficking in women, submit a statement. we have a letter from shared hope international, an article from the register guard, and a letter written april 3, 2012, that ms. maloney and i did to google, questioning back page pics so we've been working on this for quite a while. and then a letter submitted in

testimony from mr. chris cox, parker from morgan lewis, and he is the outside counsel for net choice. without objection, so ordered. so let's begin our questions. mr. winkler, i want to come to you to begin. you referenced the stain that you have conducted -- staying. we all know that made headlines of course in tennessee but also around the country. we've looked at how tennessee is number one in shared hope internationals study. and what i'd like to from you, and i think everyone on this panel, democrat and republican, would like to hear from you, what do you think is make the difference in tennessee? what do you use most within the law? what would you like to see changed?

the partnership, ms. smith, you may want to weigh in on this, but you were doing something different. you are getting results and i fight for you to begin, mr. winkler, and then ms. smith, for you to add to his answer. >> yes. i think the continued commitment by the general assembly and the governor, the tbi director to support human trafficking investigations and our partnerships across the state with the nonprofit organizations and our partnership with our state child protective services agency, all those things combined have been a tremendous help in tennessee. a lot of emphasis has been placed on enhancements in the law to make it more punishable for both buyers and sellers of sex acts with juveniles. and i think all those things

combined is what has really helped us in tennessee combat this problem. >> okay. ms. smith. >> i agree. i think it takes all parts of the puzzle working together. so you have to have law enforcement, legislature, the courts, child protective services and service providers all working together communicating and collaborating together. i think that something we do very well. law enforcement does work we can't do. investigate, prosecute the perpetrators, rescue. we can bring a survivor and an advocate perspective so that they can work in a trauma informed way to we can bring survivors on the scene at those things to build trust and transfer that tries to law enforcement, so there a lot more likely to cooperate. and if you don't have services in place for the victims, they will not stick around to make a good case. so everything intersects together. >> let me ask you this. how are you all working and educating healthcare

professionals? >> we actually right now working with one of the large hospital systems. they have been working with us for about a year to create training for all of their staff nationwide we are doing a beta rollout now in our region to treat everybody from the our staff to the receptionist at clinics. and we have a protocol in place so that they have a trauma informed response so they know to call the hotline number. they know the protocol provision for mandatory reporting, and then in our case we bring survivors on the scene from our staff to be there immediately to build the trust and to offer them services. >> okay. i want to go to you, ms. souras and ms. smith. i did some reading in preparation for the hearing, and looking at who is kind of the target victim for this. many times it seems if it is

young girls who are in state or foster care or custody, if you will. and i would like for you, we will begin with you, ms. , ms. s and then to ms. smith, to just talk about how these perpetrators of the crime go about targeting these victims, and then add if there's anything you think we could do differently. >> absolutely. thank you, chairman blackburn pick your absolute right that the location of the child often has great location of whether -- ncmec views child sex trafficking victims as a missing child problem. in our experience and as an example just last year 2016, one at a six runaways reported to us were likely sex trafficking victims. and of those 86% were running from state care. so definite correlations between children are running away and also where they are running away from, and begin their ultimate

vulnerabilities. in our experience the average victim is a a girl, even though there are boys, and lgbtq youth are trafficked as well. but again average victim is a girl about 151 half years old, between 15 and 17 is the general age range we see. typically these are children who are really experiencing an array of vulnerabilities. we are looking for something. mib a parental figure. it might be love our affection, someone to care about them. we often talk about children who are seeking really human basic requirements, , safety, securit, shelter. these are children who are not receiving that in their current home or social services setting. so they are very susceptible to false promises, both promises of love, shelter. again, security, very basic needs. that really is how they are lured pick these are children who are often seeking the

smallest remnant of kindness from someone. so the smallest extension of that from a trafficker ear and traffickers know who to extend that to and what that child might be looking for. that is often enough. just again for them to feel like someone has done something kind for them or something to care about for them. >> ms. smith. >> i ditto that 100% and i will say that foster care in the state custody systems is a perfect tool for exportation to because you have those children who are vulnerable, and we know lots of girls who were actually recruited within the system at group home. >> there be someone who was recruited on behalf of the trafficker. it's a system that sets things up for exploitation because these girls learn, all, i have a family who gets paid to take care of me.

that kind of mentality can transfer to a trafficker. well, he's going to take care of me and it's a reasonable that is getting money to do so. i think i would add that there is such a thing as familial trafficking. there are family members who traffic their children for money for drugs usually over alcohol. so in that state system when we're dealing with child services, there needs to be attracted as identifying those chilled and giving them the specialized care that they need. they can't just be lumped in with the truants and the runaways and the unruly children. there needs to be a track that quickly gets them into the services they need. >> hanky. i view to mr. doyle five minute minutes. >> thank you, madam chair. mr. goldman, in your testimony you mentioned two ways you believe that congress can achieve a balanced solution. first, by avoiding the patchwork

of state laws with which websites would have to comply, then seconded by targeting the websites intent to facilitate illegal activities. i wonder have you seen mr. good lots proposed amendment to ms. wagner is legislation that involves targeting the facilitation of prostitution with a specific intense standard and carving a state criminal laws that would do the same thing? with such a proposal service that purpose of ballots? >> i've seen the proposed legislation added to think that the effort to focus on the specific intent to facilitate prostitution is a productive way of approaching the issue, and i considered it to be superior than the alternatives that i've seen. >> i want to plug the good work of the senate permanent subcommittee on investigations because they bring the details of this issue in focus. after reading their staff report

it's clear backpage.com nutley profits from online sex trafficking but that backpage.com also help to develop content for online sex traffickers. professor, it's medicine section 230 does not protect the website -- it's my understanding. could you explain for us with the courts have drawn the line between developing content, content which is not protected and allowing third-party posts, which is? >> the statute excludes anyone, protection for anyone who creates or develops content in whole or in part. some of you develops content in part is not covered by the statute per its terms. in my opinion, the courts have interpreted that to really say that the party doesn't call for section 230 is to develop what is illegal about the content. and so there is a nexus between

developing the content and developing what made it illegal. i think that's a helpful guidance for us to think about. >> if the facts that were laid out in the senate report are true, do you think backpage.com can continue to use section 230 as a shield? >> i must say the fax have raised a lot of questions about exactly how we interpret the statutory language, and i'm eager to see what the courts in that doing with the facts that they have. certainly in fosta is where a lot of suspicion about the legitimacy of the motors but some of what they were doing a common tactics on the internet we need to make sure that whatever happens at back page doesn't also create problems with other side might be doing similar things but with much less pernicious objective. >> tell me about, ms. wagner say back was recently passed into law. can you tell us what tools this legislation gives law enforcement in pursuing sites

like back page and how prosecutors and their investigators are certain to utilize it in their investigation? may be you and mr. winkler could respond to that. >> so the safe act criminalized knowingly advertising sex trafficking, and that is a new crime that did not exist. so it did cover some new areas that it not been covered by any other crime. that law was just passed in 2015. 2015. i don't know what the typical turnaround times are for new crimes being enacted into actual usage of them. it's fairly early in the development of that particular law to gauge whether or not it's been effective. we do know that there is a grand jury investigation that has been investigating back page in phoenix. we don't know what's going on in the grand jury investigation because that's a black box to us. it takes place under the cloak of secrecy. but it would be logical to me that the say back would be one of the grounds with which doj

would ask the grand jury to investigate back page. >> have you been able to utilize that act in any of your investigations or prosecutions? >> no, sir. i'm not familiar with the details of that but did you have a question to about spotlight or did i misunderstand? >> i didn't. >> i'm not familiar with that act. >> i yield back. >> gentleman yields back. mr. guthrie, five minutes. >> thank you, madam chairwoman. i was sitting here just listening and mrs. smith described how quickly girls or ladies were transferred from atlanta, i think is easy as ordering a slice of pizza. mr. winkler commented specifically on online platforms and difficulty having to deal with this. i know section 230 was passed in 1996 through a republican congress to this committee, and a lot of us for a light

regulation touched in a lot of ways. when you hear the stories of what's come out of this, it has to be addressed. absolute has to be addressed. mr. goldman, when mr. doyle asked you about the amendment, i noticed you said it is superior for ability think it is acceptable, something you would like to see passed into law? .. two hold not to mention her ekg investigation. things are taking place. this legislation said.

>> it would be except it will now. >> the issue we do clarify in my personal opinion is that our job to do that if we know there's a bum we don't need to see what a court decision is going to do a quick and clarify that ourselves. is there anything we can do now that you would find acceptable that would address the problem we should rate on the court. >> the whole reason why you are here as you are in a position to take it an edge of you have to solve the problems you see. i think that the best call us to let the existing law in 2015 play out. if we are going to pursue legislation like you said modesto congress does. the two principles i mentioned will be the guiding principles for how i would consider legislation be acceptable.

>> the missouri attorney general, in your for moving forward, what is the issue wednesday by his date, why do they need to be addressed here instead of state by state attorney general's office? they make thank you, representative guthrie. what we really have seen over the past two years is more or less a complete foreclosure in the state attorneys general in their ability to protect children from trafficking in there and stay. all point to the california attorney general investigation and subsequent attempts to prosecute back page now once, and that twice on pimping charges on a long investigation to back page, pimping another related charges filed on back page by the state attorney general's office come in the dismissed all of the pimping

charges based on the broad interpretation charges of a cda. before the end of the senate 2015 shiite iraqis refiled as pimping charges with additional facts to try to answer to the court last order. the new judge in the second case again dismiss the charges again based on the communication act. we have it this point and what we heard from the court in california is really that congress needs to clarify the state attorney generals can join this battle, that they can join federal prosecutors. he didn't ask about civil penalties and attorneys that it is the same in that realm as well. currently state attorney general simply do not have the ability to get around the cda. >> thank you. i actually have a build that is

passed and hopefully hopefully we operates in as we go forward. i was going to ask a question about that, but i'm running out of time just to say what your people on that bill go through everyday, we we are blessed with that kind of work and it's disturbing to see but i'm sure ms. smith come you are seeing the same name, mr. winkler and it's good and we can give them the tools available to do it. i yield back. he met the gentleman yells back. mr. mcnerney cammy recognized for five minutes. i think the chairwoman and the witnesses today. this is a difficult subject and some team that needs to be done. it is urgent. ms. souras, in 2015, congress passed the self advertising victims say that has that effect is giving prosecutors a tool to bring down by type back page

page.com? >> thank you for the opportunity to address that appeared i will piggyback on what mr. bowman said. the save act was that at the end of 2015. basically added advertising as one of the predicate acts one could commit under the federal trafficking statute. one thing important to take into account as the statute was enacted at the end of 2015. back page immediately filed court papers in the federal court here in the district of columbia to basically enjoying the statue seen as unconstitutional against the department of justice. that case was not resolved until october 2016. they may feel the law has been around for a couple of years and no one has used it. i would provide a bit of a counter view i'm not an say the law has only been available to prosecutors from under this act are about the court decision

might've been for just about a gear, which simply is not a long time when you think of the federal investigation to be teed up and pursued. >> i was going to ask you first of all, are we clear of the court possibly overturning the save act at this point? is it mostly the judicial terms? >> it was a curious decision to d.c., district court issued. they did not address the substance of the cost to touche analogy issue. they actually ruled on some ancillary issues. so one could view that act is still being except the bull if it were used in a prosecution to constitutionality argument. >> do you think the congress needs to profound weather the investigators have sufficient resources to combat online x mac trafficking. >> so, that is always a ballot

measure and they have close partnerships with federal and state law enforcement and we always are encouraged by discussions around offering their resources. but what i would suggest is what federal prosecutors need is not necessarily more resources or new laws did they need new players on their scene. by that i mean state attorneys general of civil attorneys. >> i was my next question. does the amendment allows state prosecutors to go ahead and prosecute cases as long as they comply with federal requirements? >> so come the language i've seen, which i understand is very much in flux and a shifted again i believe since i saw a draft of it permits an extremely limited way and then argue much more limited in the current senate

bill. >> thank you. mr. goldman comic thank you for coming out here from the bay area. i want to make sure i understand a few things about section 230. it prohibits thorough law enforcement for most advertisements for sex trafficking. >> no. >> is to protect individuals that actually unattractively engage in trafficking. >> no. >> in your written testimony 330 ranks that one of congress' most important policy achievements in the past 25 years per century. what makes that so important? >> it becomes the infrastructure for the entire internet ecosystem which itself is our entire society. but one little thing it does same publishers are liable for third party content creates a vast array of activity that would make this or any other reason except for the internet and section 230. >> what was the internet look

like without 230? >> we have some example because it's another country and they don't have the same kind of robust user to user interactivity we have here in the united state. it's a habit provided by companies here in the u.s. >> basically 230 is doing what it is supposed to do and we may not need to amend it until they find out if it's effect is as we hope it is. >> it's a very powerful statute install amendments have potential for very dramatic effects. >> thank you. i yield back. >> mr. alston, five minutes. >> i think my friend from tennessee from the bottom of a heart for having this important hearing. modern-day slavery follow for america. it happened in my hometown in texas. slavery for sex and labor.

it is ugly, offensive, but it's real. law enforcement people back home say it doesn't exist, but it does. april 2016 back home and high school senior, very attractive, disappeared at night working out at a local gym 500-yard for my official office in the heart of sugar land. she had just turned 18, so she was a legal adult. her father knew and when he found her in three day she would likely be gone forever. luckily he had resources to hire special forces, green berets, who grieved for his recon and

put a full and on social media. he got her back. that situation had been planned for two years. he snapped shot to communicate with her. get her hooked and keep back from her parents. and so is my family. my daughter went to south africa on overseas study program after college. she went to durban, south africa. no one told us that was a hotbed of human trafficking. had to walk about half a mile

from the dormitory to the classroom. in the middle of a bright, sunny day, 2:00 p.m., the car pulled up for my daughter and her new friend. three large men jumped out, one had a pistol in his left hand. my daughter saw the pistol. the man grabbed her shoulder and tried to take her in the car or luckily she had her back pack hanging with one strap on her right shoulder and the backpack came off and gave their time to pull her right arm and pulled her away. they ran as fast as they ever could. my daughter said was waiting to hear gunshots and being shot. luckily they got to safety and she came home. but she came home different.

those tugs took my daughters in a sense and trust and it's a pain that will never, ever go away from my family. as i mentioned, the girl from the gym, sex trafficking use reverse technology to help them attain an advantage as they hit law enforcement and families as they mentioned snapchat. sixty-second deal, pops up, pops the way. online transactions. i'll start with you, mr. smith. if i can make a decaying come of it clean for one day to end trafficking, what would you do? >> first, let me say my heart goes out to you.

i sat across from parents with some regularity who didn't have an almost got his parents were trafficked and it is one of the hardest things in my job to do, so i'm glad your story was an almost. from my perspective, i see the devastation and lives of young girls, primarily girls. i see even after they come out of trafficking the fear they have at their images are still up online of who might find them and see them in parents have those fears and even looking ahead as we try to help them heal, they are worried about whether their employers will see those sunday or their children or spouse. they are just tentacles that go out in this technology. i think you've alluded to some of those things. the anonymity, the use of the marketplace has to be shut down.

i heard somebody tell me this story. if you take it out of the internet and you say in that hotel over there we will have children being and sold so we can go find them, use them as live bait so to speak. i would be appalled. but we are okay doing that on the internet. somehow that is different. we've got to have mandatory privacy controls. as long as we don't have those controls, predators are going to exploit our children. children are going to lie about their age to get accounts. we've got to get rid of the anonymity. i'm a big believer in free speech, but not in letting people rape our children. >> by a modest time. one final comment. they said this young girl okay, the drugs around the car tire in

the school parking lot in the fifth car on the red and paula on the back of your tire. it would pop up for 62nd and they can't track it. they are devils, absolute evil doubles. we have to stop it. has to, has to, has to. my daughter is lucky. she came home. as you mentioned, most otters aren't that lucky. they don't come home and that is terrible, terrible, terrible. >> ms. e. hsu, five minutes. >> thank you, madam madam chairwoman of the witnesses here today, special welcome to professor goldman from home, santa clara, university here we are all very proud of. professor goldman, when i read the report about tax page.com, i

was absolutely disgusted by their business model. i think we need to be enforcing the law obviously to the fullest extent when it comes to website that are promoting sex trafficking. but with that in mind, i want to clarify some pain about section 230 and i read your testimony and much of it is centered in and around section 230. does anything stop the department of justice from bringing the criminal case against sites like back page.com and are there other ways besides civil cases the victims can seek redress? that's my first question. >> the first part is no, nothing will restrict the department of justice against anyone or any other sites. >> and have it?

>> we have the grand jury investigation taking place in the next and we don't know what the results of that is because the good-natured grand jury investigation. it seems safe to say that back page certainly is on their radar screen. it's beyond my expertise. >> can you make any discussions about how companies can take it upon themselves to be given find other ways to be give about fighting sex trafficking? is that not what 230 civil immunity is designed? >> it does take a partnership of all the players to combat sex trafficking. we need everybody including the technology company. to get there in their willingness to undertake initiatives requires that they

are accountable for making mistakes or for not being instantaneous and their response or for the other kinds of things that are natural and environment . section 230 is an integral part of the solution by making sure we have divided a kind of legal framework that motivates companies to do the work we want them to do. >> thank you. the bills that our colleague came to testify is obviously intended to reduce the placement of antisocial content like sex trafficking online and while -- in your view to be aired. in other words, increase the appearance of such content.

can you explain in a little more detail how that would work. >> i appreciate the opportunity to clarify that. if you make it more liable we will get less of the objectionable content. that assumes that the existing services continue to do the work they are already doing. if we change the liability structure on them the best choice for them is to do less of the policing in moderation work we are already counted upon. so while we might be able to take care of some players we might create other players if those players turn off their policing enough for, create more environments where it can occur. >> do know any examples or online services have used the

flexibility granted by 230 to help combat online sex trafficking or similar crimes or if so how effective they have been? >> one of my co-panelists here. >> yes, absolutely. and the child expectation brown. the development of hashing on the ability to utilize very advanced analytical comparisons and connection between images and data and video have definitely not only increase to report the tremendously, but it means and more content related to exploitation has been reported to us.

that work on the bulk of it came under requiring it parent child. >> thank you. my time is expired. thank you to the witnesses very much. >> we think the gentlelady. mr. bilirakis. five minutes. >> thank you, madam chair very much. thank you for holding the hearing and i appreciate the testimony of the panel and ms. wagner is doing an outstanding job on this panel. glad to see this is her priority. i have a couple questions. in response to increased sex trafficking around the world and in the tampa bay area come and represent the tampa bay area parts of it in florida, our local leaders at the human trafficking and 2014. over the last three years the commission has helped educate a hundred thousand floridians, trained over 3000 community

members and saved many of the dems from captors. recently, the commission of dispersed meeting to specifically address online sex trafficking, partnering with local universities and the sheriff's office are gathering data on local online trafficking that works in the tampa bay area in the big problem in our area. my first question is to ms. smith, based on europe's events, what recommendations do you have for communities around the country beginning to target the online aspects of sex trafficking in our their experience organizations they should reach out to as they move forward? >> thank you for the effort in your homes date. i think that a lot of people are well-intentioned and go in and just have knee-jerk reactions, so it is important that there be

a professional approach to disk as with any other so that there is a need assessment that you have the professionals in place are best qualified to address each of the components of the problem you are tackling whether that is internet or not. you need the kind of collaboration we talked about in our state, where legislators are getting an education, law enforcement getting support for there is a unified system, where people are talking to each other and not a crossroads, where you are defining what your issues are and not comparing apples and oranges. there's some foundational work i think you have to do around the issue of trafficking before you can even move to the online aspects. i think it is important if you have survivor voices who are talking about the ways that they were trafficked and the effects on their lives and their

concerns come in the issues they are facing. i think some of my colleagues here might be even better condition. >> sure, would you like to begin? >> thank you. i certainly agree with everything. one of the things related to sex trafficking is a multifaceted problem and is a multifaceted solution. the community awareness and the used an illicit aid to survivors and what they have gone through and the use of peer counseling and again, learning from and using the experience is that those who have gone through it so we can learn how to better educate on prevention and awareness and science of trafficking to everyone that comes into contact with children in addition to the judicial system in the health care system as well.

>> we've got to beat this together. it's got to be a collaborative effort. i wish everyone could respond that i want to move onto the next question because i don't have very much time. technology has been a facilitator traffickers but also put the hands of law enforcement. mr. winkler, you mention your use of this software to help identify traffickers in a crowd. could you expand on how this technology works and it access with the bureau as my benefit or commission and human trafficking begins in the online monitoring for this illegal behavior. >> yes, sir. my understanding of spotlight is an algorithm or an overlay that looks for ads posted online where there is a strong light would that those ads have been posted by minors are posted

minors. it is a tremendous tool for us. our law enforcement, our agents who are designed in investigations coming used that tool almost on a daily basis to identify human trafficking but guns. any type of technologies like spotlight that would help us in the furtherance of our investigations in the furtherance of our effort to combat human sex trafficking with certainly be welcome. >> thank you, madam chair. think the witnesses are obviously participating today in protecting our nation's vulnerable population. i encourage tampa bay residents to visit to know more

information, no more pascoe on facebook or twitter to learn more and i think my community for taking action. i yield back. >> mr. rush, you're recognized for five minutes. >> i wanted thank you, madam chairwoman for having this hearing. i want to commend you on this particular matter. [inaudible] in this nation [inaudible]

what role does child marriage play themes as though there is another estimate that don't give resource that all -- [inaudible]

[inaudible] so we are trying to create a common standard through legislation. can you respond to anybody? >> i'm sorry i'm getting older and hard of hearing so he may have missed some parts of the. you're asking about child marriage. >> i would say that we've had limited its periods without. we do have a current survivor we are turning who was sold at the age of 14 to be married and her husband brought her here and trafficked her. just a trafficking situation she managed to escape then we are providing her services.

in the years in which i've in which i work kerry did work internationally and came across quite a bit, but domestically a relatively small percentage. >> i've heard in some of our researchers at so far is very, and that young girls particularly are forced into marriages in order to satisfy the minors or exploitation on the imac

[inaudible] is there a racial component to exploitation and? >> i don't have those at my fingertip. i'd be happy to get the information and send it to you later. i do know that there is a higher percentage about 10 american victims. we certainly see lot of latina, but i'm sorry i don't have the percentages. i don't think any of us probably do. >> are a nation in recent days have been highly focused in the work place and also in professional settings in

predominant numbers in the name is and today and in recent days and harassment in the work place and professional settings. how is this affecting children who in most instances are far less powerful and more vulnerable and more voiceless are you lessening child sexual harassment because of these predominant -- [inaudible] in professional settings? >> congressman, what we handle

is obviously a much more type of child at location. i will say the public attention, around this issue do create an environment for additional discussion that we can have with their children with vulnerable populations. again, just regarding communication, being open to reporting. we are seeing some of the same trends with adult and report writing. perhaps it is too early to know that my filter down to the vulnerable populations we worked with. >> the gentleman yield back. >> thank you, madam chairman. this is a test. to sit through. what is the rate or do you have any statistics on the rate of recidivism.

talking about mostly girls let say ms. i know there are some lgbtq or whatever, mostly girls, but they come from the state system. mr. winkler goes up there and bust him with the program. where do they go from there? they don't go to the house with the white picket fence and a dog in the yard and have apple pie that out. if they recidivism? do we know anything about that? >> i can speak experientially from our state. it depends on if you are accounting recidivism is returning to that wife of ex-rotation. >> that's what i'm asking. how you break that cycle for that age group for those people. how do you take them from that, which we all want to do.

then what happens? be met with on a terrific model interstate. currently we have an 89% success rate for the people we serve not going back into exploitation. not going to say it's not incredibly difficult. i believe i read the national average is that he typically runs back to exploitation seven times are thankfully our rates are much lower than that. >> seven times? >> seven times. thankfully, some of the reasons we've had success are we have survivors on staff to build that trust in who mentor, who showed visibly this does not have to define your life. i'm a professional woman. i married her dead children i've got a college degree. this does not have to define your life. that's your first got. the fact that we keep very small

caseload because these girls typically are looking for relationships. the works voided because they want love and accept and cover things all of us want because they have the need. you can provide services all day long but if you don't build a community of other survivors who live within a support group in the relationship with staff and starting to build their outside support system, they will go back and have that in the only way they've ever known. those are keys to our success. i think it takes time. we can't rush this. we tend to do that in specially child services in two months, three month and that's all there is funding for. >> let me give each of you 452nd to answer. what are the top three things we as congress, two or three things whereas congress need to do to help you? >> the number one thing is quite honestly the topic of this

hearing. there need to be legal tools that can effectively break the commercial market. the commercial market these girls run back to as ms. smith ran back to is they are lured back into to the traffic in the same market that again is seen between nine and 10,000 reports of child sex trafficking each year and there is no decrease in those reports. something at a high level needs to happen can be taken down. >> okay. go ahead. >> i have a 15-year-old this week to god or privileges back online. we have a tier system for that. the same day she got those privileges a 40-year-old man was reaching out to her and she sat on the minor and he said that's fine. we see that over and over again. i concur. >> this backstage.com or whatever it is, i've heard of it. i've never looked at it, but you

buy bicycles and couches and refrigerators there and there's also a trafficking section or how does that work? it's not all trafficking right? >> no, it is all trafficking, but it's hidden under euphemisms. by a girl for 40 roses. everyone knows that means $40. it's very late in. pictures are very sexualized. there's not much attempt to hide what is going on. >> anything that encourages innovation and in technology to assist us in conduct game investigations that would assist us in those investigations and happiness to identify trafficking that guns come anything whether that's targeted funding or just whatever, anything you could do along those lines. >> i'm over time but i'm going

to yield myself 452nd that i don't have. >> i appreciate that. i do differ on this. if we could clone my co-panelist. that would be acceptable. >> thank you. ideal back. >> 45 seconds to get installed. mr. flora your recognize. >> that means i get five and a half minutes. i want to thank the panel for being here today and i have to echo mr. long's comment this really is a sad hearing to go through this. but i do appreciate your being here to talk about this. i want to follow up on one of the questions that mr. bilirakis introduced. from what i understand now is the trafficking business if you will is moving from text and photos to live streaming and

video. it's my understanding that technology in the spotlight of the types of technology kept up. what sort of challenge does that present to you? >> i don't know specifically of challenges we are faced with yet. i do know there is a shift from the text format to video and streaming and it is certainly something on the horizon if it's not dirty here and like i said before, anything that you can do that would assist in fostering innovation in that area would be most helpful. >> i have to agree with you here that is one of the things we as policymakers do but not through legislation necessarily, that through encouragement to help get the best and brightest to

silicon valley and through the technology ecosystem to help develop tools to help you stop this terrible crime inflicted on our young people. i appreciate what you do. there is a group that are dead called no bound and they do great work and they deal with the vic inside. one of the neat things in our community they are brought law-enforcement and have educated them about the way these folks over at minds to what is happening to them and they have formed a collaboration with the sheriff, michael mcnamara has set up a sting system, like mr. winkler had talked about in business is booming, but it is understanding

that traffickers are no longer stopping in waco texas, but that doesn't mean they've gone away. they are just another areas you want to continue. we've heard a lot about the terrible consequences about easily the can be lured into sex trafficking. though we haven't talked a whole lot about what can be done to stop expectation worse place. can you talk about your prevention efforts and how technology can be used to stop expectation before it starts? >> great question. thank you. we are doing a lot about prevention. we have recur in small groups with a high risk kids, interactive groups with middle-school and high school students. talking about prevention, what we have to be talking that is demand prevention. because tbi does what they do in our state if somebody picks up

the phone to call for sex been on the other end of the phone might be on first name suburbs, small towns, wherever they are, our laws are strong. they picture make a lot on a press release and a wife and boss of the people they go to church with might see that. those are strong deterrence. some law-enforcement type put up the pictures so everybody can see that's the kind of thing we need to have happening if we are going to prevent this. we've just got to limit the marketplace as we've been talking about. as long as there's anonymity. as long as exploiters can get by with what they're doing. as the gators don't have tools to go after them. one for us that will lose motivation if there is not a legal process that works best for you really have to do. >> was that about 30 seconds into a canoe from a technology perspective to help stop the

exploitation. give a feel for that? i was for you. what can be done from a technology standpoint to stop the exploitation? >> some of the things we've been talking a matter of the privacy controls, anonymity online. we haven't talked about the fact there are new sites popping up constantly. it's hard to even keep track of them. we need resources to keep on track of what is being done. but also, law enforcement needs resources to be able to get with a need for getting perpetrators. >> thank you for your testimony and i yield back the balance of my time. >> ms. walters, five minutes. >> thank you for witnesses for being here today.

it's deeply upsetting that these issues exist in today's society but i'm grateful for the opportunity to discuss how we can put an end to this modern-day slavery. i worked on human trafficking issue since i served in the california state legislature since 2004 and while we think it's a terrific practice of the last 13 years, much, much more must be done. trafficking is a big problem throughout california as i'm sure you are aware and a recent report by polaris founded 2016 california had over 1300 incidences of human trafficking more than any other state. this map that i've got shows the cases in california reported to the national human trafficking hotline, but the math is hard to picture because it only reflects cases in which the location was actually no. this year investigators have

uncovered several large-scale using the internet to sell services and thousands of ads were trafficked through the websites we are all familiar with, back page.com including selling minors for commercial sex. sadly one of those is located in irvine in the heart of my district. the problem is so bad in orange county that a group of law enforcement departments, government agencies, nonprofit and community organizations banded together to conduct anti-trafficking out for. in 2015 the orange county human trafficking task force assisted 225 pounds of the 225 tons, 168 of those states guns were used for sex trafficking. 48 were minors, 47 used for sex trafficking and the stats go on and on. i brought the task force has

done and will continue to do so. i would like to get to some questions. >> ms. smith you mention your testimony in the tennessee bureau of investigations began investigating human traffickers, they called on your group for assistance. do you think state law enforcement agencies have the expertise and resources to combat this problem on their own? >> no, i believe it takes the expertise of a number of players working together. so one person does they wouldn't dream of doing investigating, researching, prosecuting but i think we have to work together to have an approach that doesn't frighten victims away, that that meets them where they are, that brings survivors where they are to build the trust. we have to have services in place to keep the vic them in place long enough to prosecute.

when i first started this work i had a detective who said he was so frustrated with picking at the same 14-year-old girl all the time that he didn't know what to do he lost his motivation. but now he's one of our most robust supporters because the system is working because all the pieces are in place and so law-enforcement is going now and they are fining people. the community is getting educated and they are getting recognized by first responders. services are in place that they need to heal. when that happens it's a game changer. >> different partnerships are being farmed in order to have the communication to make it work. >> absolutely. >> have a couple questions for you. what evidence would a civil attorney need and expect to rely on to establish a website new individual advertised on the site was a minor.

>> i don't have been answered because we haven't seen that issue because section 230 doesn't turn on a website knowledge. we are unclear or a different legal regime and in server.. >> see if you can answer my next question. along the same lines, what evidence would a civil attorney need and expect to rely upon to establish that a website or the individual advertised on the site was an adult sex trafficking but done. >> i insert the same. that's okay, thank you. i yield back the balance of my time. >> mr. costello, recognized for five minutes. to make thank you, first the national center who partnered with the fbi recently connect your 11th annual operation cross-country law-enforcement action focused on recovering underage but tends to sex trafficking. the cross-country sting was an operation including 55 offices in 74 fbi led chad exploitation

task force among first nations east of the country leading to recovery at 84 x-rated minors in the rest of traffickers and individuals including nine in my congressional district. i understand where the cda prided immunity to isps and the persons in. there's an appreciation for why that was the case. i like others have met with her mother whose daughter was having ties in with you here but these ads are and what a sad, it really hits you in the way that compels you to say that is not acceptable and we need to create a standard by which it can be

liable and have a more responsibility that is that's far better then. the question i have is any talk about successful efforts taken online during the operations and how we can revise section cda i would point specifically to the reckless disregard that the information is further as and i think that is very helpful language in ms. wagner's bill as well as normally we are hesitant to give state investigative authorities are law-enforcement jurists action over internet type related crimes because they do different things at different times. ms. souras than anyone else on the panel, kidneys beat to that

collaboration between local and federal law enforcement and how the proposal may best a bad in rootedness out even more effect belief? >> thank you for the question, congressman and thank you for the recognition for cross country. it's an amazing operation undertaken and as you noted was a large variety of partners, local, state, federal that provides recovery services to local groups in addition to the analytical support and we are extremely proud to partner with unforeseen on the operation. i think what you see in that operation in the numbers quoted from your state of pennsylvania are really executive of the scope of the problem. every week, every month in the numbers would be the same. i will defer to mr. winkler

certainly to how there can be better resources put in place for law enforced in it, but the way to really provide assistance into those numbers and i will repeat a little bit of what i said before archie take this song from the highest level to realize that there is a commercial marketplace where these children are commodities and that is why there are so many children who are recovered and rescued during operation for our country and the word back. some children seven, eight times similar to what we see because somebody can make money off of them. until we are able to introduce some laws. again, the bill currently pending in the house that will soon be coming over to the house or the senate currently with 52 cosponsors in the senate.

most of those bills are approaching the issue from the same framework, adding more legal resources, civil remedies. that is really what you are going to start the new vehicle initiatives. that is a solution to cut down on the number of children because it's too hard to break into the next back page, whatever that website might be and there are hundreds, it is our experience -- >> real quick, how important first date and prosecutors to deal to hold out actor websites accountable? how much more in the way of resources? >> it is a tremendous benefit. state attorneys general in every state. i imagined look at this issue, many of them have spoken. >> thank you. i yield back. >> the gentleman yields back. seeing that there are no further

members wishing to ask questions, we thank you all so much for the testimony you have given today. as we conclude i have two more submissions for the record. the opening statement of our ranking member, frank pallone in an op-ed that i wrote this week that was printed. without objection, so ordered. pursuant to committee rules, i remind members that they have 10 business days to submit additional questions for the record and they asked if they do come the net into you that you answer those questions within 10 business days. seeing no further business to come before the committee and the fact that we are now being called to the floor for a vote, i had during the subcommittee so ordered. thank you.

[inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] >> coming appear on c-span two come in the united kingdom is part of the debate, in a no-win for young written debate on the floor house of commons.

>> obviously going to defend ourselves against nuclear north korea and god forbid iran becomes a nuclear weapons state we will defend ourselves against them, too. we are going to keep fighting terrorists come unfortunately and we've got europe and