they were really sure if he was going to make it. and he wasn't just about baseball. he changed america for the better. >> you are watching book to be on c-span two book tv, television for serious readers. >> morning before we begin to ask you to turn off your self on and any other electronic devic devices. >> good morning. emjoi myers, director of public affairs program. on behalf of the carnegie

council i welcome you to this public affairs program. you honored to have us our guest david, his presidency of international committee where he oversees humanitarian relief i know the name resonates with most of our audience. if you want to learn more please take a moment to read his bio which was handed out when you checked in. today he will discuss refugees. it's also the subject of rescue, refugees and the political crisis of our time. it is about our duty to strangers. the crisis may no longer be

front-page news, it's ongoing and global. the fallout this is only part of the outfield. the fact is, refugees are fleeing countries from afghanistan to somalia, the seeking shelter and wondering how they will survive. there's always been refugees. this seems to be something different about what is happening. in becoming not only a human enormous humanitarian crisis but a political challenge there's moral questions, issues that we care deeply about. david offers a roadmap of a widespread refugee crisis. he tells us what it means to be a refugee he shows a crisis

about what can be done with citizens with the urge to change lives it's a fight to withhold if we fail refugees then we betray our own history, values and interests. please join me to walk marquess. >> of money. it's a privilege to be here at the council today. this is quite a challenging menu the first thing i want to be sure of is the people who are on the second row are in no way second-class citizens. the people on the overflow room

and not third class citizens. bias on you even though we cannot see you physically here. i want to say thank you to you for letting me come today. one of the purposes of writing the book is to take the refugee crisis out of a self-selected world and bring it into wider conversation. one of my diagnoses of this crisis is the world's refugees are complacency with the law has

been properly looked after. one reason was to be able to have breakfast and talk about the nature of this in some way it's a hallmark and in some ways that has distinctive characteristics. to try to engage people with the wider interest to see this issue of global displacement people forced from their homes is deeply connected to the fate of the global system. the fact that they're interested in international affairs is something i tried to discuss in the book. i thought i would talk for 20 minutes or so and then invite questions i wanted to talk about four things. what is the refugee crisis today, why should we care, what

can be done about it, and what will have to do about it. i've learned that i'm extremely leery of anything that might be seen as self-promotion. i realize that self-promotion is the name of the game. i can even tell you that every copy by leads to $2.25 donation. any of you think you're buying one copy i have news for you. you be going away with ten. so what is the crisis, what we have to do.

mr. with the bare fact. 65 million people displaced by their home by conflict or persecution in the world. not economic migrants. people who are choosing to leave their home and country to seat economic betterment. there homeless because of work because of war. fourteen or so within their own home country. 7 million syrians have been bombed or driven out of their homes but still living within syria. in nigeria 2 million -- about 25 million are refugees 22 and a half million inches keep in your

the 25 million have been driven and they've gone into a neighboring country. one danger of this crisis feels like a dehumanized number. there's one in every 110 people and the planet. but the characteristics of these people are important to understand. half under the age of 18. will come back to what that means.

40% who have been allowed to come here have been kids. eighteen characteristic is their children. the second is there displaced for a long time. the displacement was for a limited period of time my mother was a refugee from poland, today, the average length of displacement is ten years. once you been a refugee for five years average goes up to 21 years. were talking about not just a large-scale of displacement, were talking about long-term displacement.

the ten-year average replacement 60% of refugees live in urban areas. 60% of these refugees are in urban areas. the challenge is difference. in a can you guaranteed food and if you're sick you'll get healthcare. we have an urbanized a slave population and obviously there's a different book to be written about why should be happening now. i just want you to have in your

mind there about 20 to 25 weeks states who do not have the political system 800,000 people large of an out of the country and nine weeks. you have 20 or 25 weeks states around the world that cannot share power of weekend divided political system as prime minister in the u.k. for several years and the international political system is weaker divided there the in very difficult to talk about his find

it by -- today about 45% of our beneficiaries are muslim. a large part of this crisis is located in muslim majority countries. what exists in the world sell sedan has a billion refugees that has nothing to do with this one. the fact there is this electric explosive debate within the world my description here pits pluralism against perfect condition. that degree -- none are

short-term trends. weeks states divided into national systems a huge debate, there is long-term trend. so what were dealing with something that will go on. the long-term crisis, not something that will go away. then why should we care? i was brought up to believe that if there someone in the in your able to help the many don't snatch is to raise commits a crime. there's a moral call to this that we should not be ashamed of. we no longer have the excuse that the crisis is something we don't know about. even the 1990s is that i'm not sure what's happening, even in

25 years if you think back to the refugee crisis in the 70s ignorance was used as an excuse. today we don't have that excuse. we know the circumstances it's a choice whether or not we as part of the richer western world people say to me we have our own problems at home said yes maturity doesn't end at home. and that is the central choice that i think we have to address. we have to learn that a country like uganda where the average income is $962 year has taken a million refugees.

i met this deputy chairman of the local counsel which is receiving all of these. he's an elected politician. they said what you think about this refugee crisis and they said i'm not building a wall. this is the age of globalization. he knew about the debate. one thing i bring out the burke which is important is humanitarian should not rely only on an argument. we should make a hardheaded argument.

i think the strategic argument for exercising responsibility by the west can come back to talk about what the u.s. means. georgians of the west has this marvelous phrase about the atlantic charger sunday churchill. it was four months before the u.s. entered the war. they talked about the atlantic charter that was about the framing of a postwar peace. churchill is forced to swallow the harsh medicine that empires would have to give independence to their colonies. self-determination was important

but so was social justice and international corporation. it was the birth certificate of the west. my argument is that there are historic reasons and strategic reasons for believing it's in our best interest not just the right thing to do. if we trash own history by trashing refugees then we trash own history that's dangerous. in the modern world in the global village of someone's house is on fire than your house is on fire. if you are european you know the searing refugee crisis did not stay in syria. there's also a national security argument.

about the national security ca case. we had a discussion about how is nothing more powerful for the recruiting sergeants of isis than to be told the u.s. has not got the bank will press muslims around the world. it's shocking but true that the isis social media channels were celebrating when trump put out his executive order stopping refugees from coming here. there is a national security argument. it's true that isis has been vanquished in parts of iraq, al qaeda in some ways is on the back foot. this is a generational change not just a short-term military

challenge. there strategic arguments as well. you might agree it's a big crisis that you could do something you think the problem is so big we can't solve it. my case to use there are things that can be done. we have to change the way the human the humanitarian sector works of her to do justice to the nature of the displacement. your distinguished ambassadors and i hope there in the vortex of this which is caught in the middle of this in an international system that's breaking. unless we reframe our approach to humanitarian endeavor we will fail. reframing is fundamentally about taking on the fiction that the

refugee crisis is a short-term crisis. the fiction is helpful for hosting countries. it's quite convenient they can say these people are here for a short time. we need to provide shelter. the truth is, the large majority of refugees will stay. less than 1% of refugees one homeless year. says we will give you short-term -- to keep these people a live. were trying to tackle long-term problems of violence against women, poverty and unemployment with short-term grants. it's crazy. i think for things are important. one, we should be saying the

expectation is that adult refugees are able to work. if you're displaced for ten years you need to work. it's only going to be possible if countries like jordan for supporting a given massive economic support. jordan has of program and debt that has gone up and they have gone six or 50000 registered refugees. they need a different kind of offer. there are short-term a. they can say about 33% youth unemployment problem if i'm going to let refugees were, i need to ensure my own population gets help. they work informally which drive some underground which has its own problem.

there's a safety benefit and economic benefit from them becoming a taxpayer. secondly, the saddest statistic is that half of all refugees are children and less than 2% of the military budget goes on education. the total scandal. it's incredibly stupid. 250,000 syrians in lebanon who hasn't had any education since they left syria. such as a moral scandal, strategic stupidity. we have to take on the idea that education is so luxury not a lifeline. the first thing parents will say his wares education from a kid. we have very exciting week coming up.

we partnered with sesame street and you may have heard of this and we are in the running to win a 100 million-dollar prize from the mccarthy foundation that would address early childhood trauma. a lot of people say we have to build schools. for many kids are not in a mindset where they're ready to go to school. the brain trauma means they need early social and economic to support. this would be the largest early childhood development program ever. we have to think about education differently. the third aspect is what is the thing refugees like the most, cash. money. for syrian refugees don't have

access to bank account when you leave. the basic ideas that since there lebanon urban areas that have to pay rent and buy food. the best thing you can give them is cash, you can do electronically or safely and economic benefit local communities because they are paying rent and shopping. the fourth element is we have to address when the argument we have to win the argument but welcome a small number of refugees to our shores as a small contribution to the fight against refugee crisis.

i'm not american, i observe your politics, it's a real tragedy the country that has the most successful refugee resettlement program welcoming about 90000 out of 25 million, it's a tragedy the program is being strangled. the administration said they put a cap of 45000. the figures we publish that you will end up with a maximum of 15000 coming this year. that's a scandal. refugee resettlement, it means getting the adults into work and teaching them english, giving them a carnival, the car loan repayment rates among refugee families are higher among others.

people say what's different about being a refugee in one thing is that you tell people get cars. you don't have to the year. 98% of the car loans get paid back. compared to 88%. it's a tragedy the program is being strangled. twenty-six offices around the you. this went to a trickle the number of people being allowed in. he said be cheaply question they come here. for some of the most vulnerable refugees a new start in life is what they need. it's a symbolic stand and it's one thing for the king of jordan to say america's given me money but then they're saying america

refuses to take any refugees thirdly, i'm sure family stories in this room are actually good for the country. they become productive citizens because they know the price of living in a country that doesn't give them that freedom. my point and rehearsing those aspects is to say, the argument that this is unmanageable is not true. expect's. it is manageable if we do basic things that are more sensible focus. i think we should talk about whether it's possible to win the argument, i think it is possible. it's not possible to persuade everyone. you can still win the election.

the key is whether or not it looks like you're in control of your own country. my diagnosis of your politics is that the real poison in the refugee crisis is 11 million undocumented part of the immigration system that has present the refugee debate. so, i think it's possible to win the argument. so what can you all do other than buy my book? first is that you will. some is like it's become accepted that let some refugees

come in. so the program is found but not properly understood. the morning is that you won't have a refugee resettlement program unless you argue for. secondly there are refugees who have arrived after arriving they need to be buddies with your grandchildren, the next nation to how the system works. english language teaching. the need to be invited to your house for dinner. whenever b&b where hosts are invited to the family. i'm not an air b&b host but we wanted to invite a family say came and had dinner with us. in the end the conversation was about 15 or 16-year-old kid in what advice we could give him about school choices.

so there is the human touch really matters. if you're an employer give refugees a chance to get a job with your business. they need a chance to make success of their and obviously want you to be supportive, one of the reasons i took the job skills i thought is not well enough known. sound by einstein in 1933. this speaks to the history of the city in a profound way. were now the largest ngo like you to become supporters, some of your those who are not we would like you to be supporters of the organization.

it is a jew in the work it does. thank you for listening. i'll be happy to take questions. [applause] >> 's obviously when the irc hygiene they hired the right person. thank you. sure there's many questions. please identify yourself. >> hello. you wanted to talk about the question of democratic incentive. i do think it's a huge issue. to take a vivid example of this in the west 2016 they bargained with turkey to basically block the onward movement of refugees into europe.

america to set don't to this will lose the support of our own population feeling of loss control over our own borders. should i think about is a cynical actor is a necessary concession to the need of democratic consent? >> one thing that i was taught at university that i remember, whenever you're given a difficult question is should challenge it. in all seriousness, i would challenge her premise. the argument in europe was not that we have to come to deal with turkey, the argument was unless we come to deal with turkey we won't be able to manage the problem.

why was europe in a position to not be able to do that. in 2012 or 13 when the refugees were slow syria military about middle eastern refugees. when it broke loose focus of crashes-division of ukraine. so they ignored the refugee crisis until 2015. it's been playing catch-up. because of playing catch-up, to not establish shared responsibility among 20 countries. the responsibility fell to greece and italy. offender the dublin regulation of where we first land have to register first asylum there. germany and sweden was the best place to go.

now you cannot run the system using just four countries within 28 and in trying to persuade relocation was an organizer bowl. that's the fundamental problem that faced them in 2015 or 16. silly this year they have a proper system so that thing was a security aspect. the lesson is not that a managed flow is on acceptable to the population, set the choices you have to manage regulative for people doesn't take away the difficult choices. were nonmanaged unregulated for people. the pressure to, be there

anyway. fundamentally you can win a majority as long as it looks like you're in control. looks like you don't control you can hold it the sense of brown. >> david, is there future in convincing european publics accepting immigrants is seven pages of the society which otherwise would not be filled? because of the alert that politicians who are native and anti- immigrant seem to have places like germany, the czech republic, even austria. i take your point you have to convince them you're controlling it.

is there -- that they need immigration to keep their societies moving for? >> immigration is different from refugees. were talking about immigrants who have different rights. in the case of refugees not safe to be sent home and if you're an immigrant that's not the case. here's the real thing if i really had the answer i probably still be in politics. the real paradox of this is that countries and communities that

have the most immigrants are the happiest about it. the greatest backlash against immigrants since and communities, cities and towns in countries that have the fewest immigrants. the hungarian tragedy is an example of this. so is the u.k. situation. the most integrated and diverse communities are the happiest. the biggest backlash against refugees of those that hardly have ready refugees. that's what makes me think this is an manageable case. there was the case of people who didn't have immigrants in the community really about them.

but those who did have lots of immigrants hated them. they'll be unmanageable. given its reverse, you have to believe it's manageable. we've also shown how not to manage it. i was in the education ministry and we decided as part of the enlargement of the e.u. the u.k. that was barreling along economically and thought we were invincible we said poland, the czech republic, that's fine, we hadn't option of seven-year transitional time and we said no we don't want to do that. though some mistake. we had a study and 500,000 arrive.

speaks to the point whether you know you're doing. it's a long way of saying, i think it's an argument that can be one. but it has to be one. people are going to move. it's question of whether or not they're moving legally or illegally. i think it is not communities that are being left behind economically and economic reasons. unless we address this you will be very hard to contain the anger. a separate question.

>> do so full of ideas and so many things we want to know about. you haven't had a chance to address -- problem in the pope with their there's so many of them were to suggest could be done? >> it basically means you have the answer. people say quite a lot. we've been working in miramar for 30 years. responsible for the health provision for hundred 20000 people. muslims and non-muslims in the work that we do we get terrible -- the first thing is that our

workers need to do their work for the remaining that's a political dynamic i hope you have the scenes. although he was decided the deal is if you don't sorted out i'm getting use it. on the bangladesh side is very difficult. the bangladeshis have not wanted to give refugee status historically to hang i was becoming. at the moment the battle bangladesh is being open to

international health and they really need it. aaron has a team in. it's a real time to mobilize this it's also important all of the experiences that it ends up being long-term we need to make it a and also for bangladesh. >> this country i'm sure send that refugee close muslim and the focuses of that issue.

we have an extraordinary number of refugees committed from true crises in honduras, guatemala, we have century city problems. maybe if you would texas you know more about it they get very little knowledge here. i'd like to know your take on that. >> there's undoubtedly people fleeing for their lives they can entitled to claim refugee status. the challenging thing is that i can get my head around the crisis in south sudan where you have rival sanctions and a frozen political process and mutual and global players. it's within my understanding try

to tackle the roots of the problem. the guatemala situation criminal gangs" here is of local populations is a different root of the problem. you write, there's a different issue about undocumented immigrants. people fleeing their due process needs to apply because they're terrorized. especially on kids.

>> talks about whether you can make people believe that you know you're doing of the government knows what it's doing. i've lived here for 40 years i don't so i know what's going on in the u.k. but the refugees refugees because of war religious intolerance, smaller group than the economic refugees, my problem in listening to this is we have enough problems with worsening religious intolerance, we've had that since the 1930s and my experience. we've got millions of them now. but the background to this

mission nobody wants to deal with is that the world population is increasing particularly in places like africa. minutes in short supply how to deal with this problem that whatever you do in one case because of refugees you have this background, some of sort of like a doomsday background. how do you deal with that it's a person in your position? >> i point to three trends, the 200 year or longer deeps structural treads. one is around climate.

in a way they interact. you about population? the thing we know is that the poor you are the more kids you have. it seems paradoxical or perverse. but it's the fact. africa is a big cut in. there are parts for their massive population issues. it is trackable not just to countries according to their income. u.s. have practices with family planning a birth-control better very effects to local culture. there also vexed here because one thing is they don't plan any

family-planning. it's a vexed issue all around. our experience is that will look on the micro scale. work about family planning and birth spacing to try to give women a break between having kids. it's a long haul. i don't have an easy way of saying how it's tied in to the conflict, but i think it excuses us from doing the range of other things around employment. one of the biggest driver is getting adolescents into

education. like you can take a few questions at once i can get through them. >> i want you to go back to which said about jordan and 33% unemployment. what can i do coming up with jobs. jobs are available to keep people in the country that they've got to? >> here in parliament us concerning the 40 billion marshall plan for africa to help deal with the problem when you think of that?

>> i think we did a study about trends economy. the first is the domestic side it's huge around significant parts of the sector and then thirdly only 4% of the experts go to your. it's really very small. the diagnosis fundamentally if there is lack of matching of jordanian countries into european supply chains. american companies is better. . .

>> that's europe is interesting with its development aid but if you think of the marshall plan? it was a political plan and also a private sector plan so the real marshall plan to bring together different elements of government that does address the issues of local conflict that does bring in the private secto sector.

there are 300 million people but the discussion we are having two things that are very difficult is the relationship for humanitarian reasons and our argument is you should not be using development money in order to manage the migration. but then you are kept separate

but for those african migrants is significant so to have any type of systematic relations are very challenging. and there is conflict in the country with massive profiteering and trade and to be on that is very challenging. >> i would like to ask you to expand about refugees seems it is a positive factor of their acceptance that they meet

refugees in the workplace. rather than someplace else. that i would assume that refugees have the means to escape political persecution not simply shepherds or unskilled people so are they educated and skilled from the average person? >> my question goes back to germany and turkey they have taken enormous numbers refugees. do you have a comment that the

status of the refugees like the healthcare you have mentioned and jobs? >> i actually work at the office and it has been a pleasure to hear you speak. my question goes back to the digital warfare issue that should be raising eyebrows and i want to hear your opinion about the rise of the hate groups and the right-wing politics and the anti- muslim rhetoric that is the age of

information not only of concerned individuals but reaching out to our congressional leaders with the next step and getting a good accurate representation. >> so to go in reverse order. >> so he is trying to work with them. i don't resent that at all. the tweet that the president put out it is important to

know why it got such a massive reaction. that were demonizing those citizens. but we have a law with this group that have been found guilty. that is bad enough but by people shouting britain first that this betrayed such a understanding of humanity that

was a complete explosion i hope the president understands because he would make himself look so much better but it is important to understand the point with that chasm so there is some online and off-line to say this with hatred directed towards anyone that there are big responsibilities that

muslim of the american armed forces i am a muslim who in business or in sports but with the debate of anti- submitted them so one of the first reactions but with a parliamentary committee it is headed by somebody who is not jewish. so to take on hate is all of our irresponsibility. and actually you sanction that

and endorse that. >> that is why the chinks in the armor and by the way that is the fuel they were desperate for. turkey with 2.7 refugees and then for the rest of the 2.5 million with those work opportunities but there is also a lot that is abusive and dangerous.

but it is very well organized. it is incredible because with the town of 40000 people with those refugees integrating into local society there is a public and private sector responsibility and that processing claim is done quickly. there are 40 or 50% but if you don't qualify then go to that appropriate route otherwise you close the whole basis of

the system it is pretty well run having said that there are rough edges but they use the time to be well organized. >> just to finish up but it is a very mixed sure that we do have evidence how refugees live in the united states. over a 20 year period. 53billion-dollar dividend that

the refugees contribute more than the cost of taxes and benefits so there is a good aggregate evidence that everybody will be a software engineer but these are the people who really know those who suffer and that makes him good neighbors and good employees. [applause] [inaudible conversations]

[inaudible conversations] >> every month the past 20 years and nonfiction author has joined us for a fascinating three-hour conversation about their work. in 2018 we are changing course we have invited 12 fiction authors of historical fiction national security thrillers, science, social commentators.

their books have been read by millions around the country and around the world. if you are a reader plan to join us as an attractive program the first sunday of every month letting you call in talking directly to your favorite authors. >> hello. this afternoon we are pleased to welcome him after ed asner with his book "the grouchy historian" a television