my state didn't find out until it went public that they tried to hack into our state. we didn't know it. in the case of illinois and mentioned they got right into the voter security. we have support for this bill from the freedom caucus and in the house, mark meadows is carrying a similar version coming the identical bill to one i've done with lindsay dad is a little bit different than the one senator langford and i have and both of those bills are aimed at this because there's concern on the left and on the right when you have dozens and dozens of states that have updated their election infrastructure equipment in the past decade. you think russia doesn't know that? i'm not disclosing some secret. when you have that going on in something like 10 or 12 --

>> we will be these remarks are earlier today and go live now to the internet policy conference this afternoon. we will hear from congressman bob goodlatte. >> we are on a tight schedule, but to introduce our keynote speaker for the first part of lunch come i want to introduce jeremy berman who i introduced earlier today. jeremy created all of this to create an organization that could carry policy where no one really cared about it. to treat everybody as a stakeholder, even if they didn't know it yet and we've had a long time and now is not the case. this is kind of important and thanks to jerry and the other members of the board of directors. i also want to recognize congressman rick white, one of her major programs and a member from the state of washington during that time. rick, thank you for coming. our next speaker succeeded,

congressman wei. jeremy berman founded our organization. he's been a driving force for having deep conversation before anyone thought it was important. jerry will introduce our next speaker. jerry berman. [applause] >> is congressman goodlatte here? he is coming in. it is an honor for me to be here and to introduce congressman goodlatte. as many of you know, he is retiring this year after a long run success there of virginia. he worked tirelessly on encryption policy comer surveillance policy. we've dialogued over the years on these issues.

but what was critical and it's been absolutely critical to the success of the internet education foundation, which runs because of bob goodlatte and tim morgan and they both deserve a hand just for that. [applause] for my last word before i turn it over to bob is back when we started this come in the big issue for the internet with spam no one, and we were a footnote, but going through free speech, what we learned as they were going -- there were going to be multiple policy issues that confronted it. but there is going to be no global government to govern it and that what we had to do is consider ourselves part of a community with a responsibility to work together, not just for

the bottom line, but for the health and openness of this media and that required state of the night come in really getting together in scene where are we, what are the issues, working together not just in this room, but having the dialogue in government, civil society in the private sector, not going off on your round, but holding hands to the solutions together because if you don't do that, we will not end up with an open internet. as i pass along, i just urge you, the community commenting cooperation, think dialogue. bob goodlatte has helped us with that and he deserves a lot of credit and i'm really glad to be here to introduce in and our speaker. thank you very much.

[applause] >> wow, jerry thank you for those very kind words. they are from the heart, but they are not undeserved as you say. former congressman rick white who is the actual cofounder of the congressional internet caucus i took over for him about two years later back in the mid-1990s and really the credit for this organization goes overwhelmingly to jerry for having found it and then having the brilliant idea to take it on because tim makes this event a success every year. let's give 10 day round of applause. [applause] it's an honor to be with all of you again this year and we have another very interesting ceo to talk about internet related

issues and in particular his company and the technology they've deployed. a fellow inc. ceo joins state of the net to tell the story of building and scaling a simple walkie-talkie act that has wide ranging applicability from saving lives to disasters to driving efficiency and business. this fall rescue workers and taxpayers relied on fellow to say fled the guns by hurricane harvey and it became the communication hub for the cajun navy. mr. moore has been ceo for over six years, growing the company's user base to about 100 million. mr. moore is also the founder of the audio streaming service to an end, which offers thousands of radio on demand for over 75 million users and today we are going to talk about the power of the internet apps like

zello destabilized during emergencies and the importance of the internet in enabling technologies and companies like zello. bill, welcome very much. we are delighted to have you with us today. >> thank you very much. delighted to be here. thank you for having me. >> was given a a round of applause. [laughter] >> tell us about zello. >> sure come a walkie-talkie app on your phone and if anybody had the thrill of the kid of plane on a walkie-talkie, zello is about live voice communication to improve human flourishing through voice communication, whether companionship or cooperation solving problems and is such a fine medium to work with. the internet today is a sterile, hostile place with lots of text and pictures and my voice as we are now is wonderful because it's real.

i can't fake. but that creates a level of intimacy that doesn't exist in text or photos or other stylus communications. it demands attention from both sides. it creates trust. it's how we communicate. a 2-year-old can use zello come a 9-year-old person can use zello. one is a consumer app where we have 120 million registered users to stay in touch with friends and family or people they don't know so they cannot live channels that are private or public channels. the other half is the revenue model that companies use zello to replace radios as they deploy mobile apps to their workforce until somebody will be rolling out workflow application and you kind of think why are we spending $500, $1500 on the

secure radios they are six-year in location and 100-dollar wi-fi does the same thing or $150 android phone for mobile worker. it is per month and make it a private network and the administration and the free consumer version. >> very good. >> tell us about these very practical applications that may not have been anticipated by people when they found themselves in crisis that the so-called cajun navy, boats going out into neighborhoods to find people and rescue them out of their houses. what can you tell us about that? >> it wasn't a complete surprise because radio has been a bill to

communication tool when the stakes are high. again, the lead voice and pure emotion with large groups of people very efficiently and really the first inkling we've had in these crisis situations in various countries, zello has been the number one overall apps starting in turkey in the arab spring and egypt, the government of venezuela shut down zello during the height of their troubles, which unfortunately was a few years ago. also ukraine was another one. another good scene before harvey in south africa has a terrible crime problem and they developed a crowd source neighborhood watch, 9-1-1 back up around zello come in millions of people use it. very effective they are. the group asian navy gets the credit if anyone saw what's

happening with hurricane harvey and some others. they came together after katrina, saying the whole bear. they came to houston for harvey and they were first used because they had some intention they used over multiple instances and learned zello works really great. if you need help to get on zello. there were thousands and thousands of people who came from texas and nearby with rocks and boats and chainsaws and fuels in the air and highway driving they are finding zello channels and they are finding these dispatchers that emerged kind of automatic, who are sending them to the right places and if people need help they are

finding zello channels. her effective, very exciting. just to communications with the thousands of volunteers that they brought to bear that was so effective. >> is this an example of the internet and new technology undercutting or supplementing the traditional way people would've addressed it prior to hurricanes, the one in new orleans for example that hold the area of the south coast, didn't have the technology available so few people would have it in the communication because only the police, fire and rescue organizations would have the big traditional walkie-talkie type devices and now you've got everybody able to communicate with everybody else who has a device. >> there some overlap in plenty of room to prove we can get into love how these public agencies

with the rule of law structured and trained work better with a huge number of volunteers. but forever a disaster recovery setup bonds type and handout radios that cost $1500, protocols for who can use them and if you have a radio you're pretty special and there is a command structure created around not. so we saw with harvey and also irma and another example in puerto rico and now everybody has a radio. it makes it possible and superfast and is available to everybody. not only that, what we saw was these dispatchers that emerged and put together within hours in

the maintained that the process for who gets help, what are the rules? in these dispatchers didn't need to be in that time. in fact, half of them were out of state. one of the best was in new jersey for their bedroom. it is this wonderful infrastructure that we can take it an edge of that's going to happen bottom-up because they can get to it and want to help. >> that's not how most people are using it. families are deploying and they can talk to may be apparent for someone else is living by themselves with their families. >> there's so many use cases in a really broad demographic of the kinds of people who use zello. friends and family would be one for a ski trip. there's really no reason to buy

walkie-talkies or you are going camping, probably the same for you have a chat group with your friend. you want to organize young people at a bar, perfect for that. it is also popular for connect them with people through millions of public channels and often they are about a topic. the mini cooper they have a road rally and so they get on a channel for that rally for this channel called the glasscock channel, profanity laden, fun to listen to when you're drinking with your buddies or a weather watcher, storm chaser channel or religious evangelization channels of all sorts of these public channels. it's one of those cases. >> very good. how has the network infrastructure played a role in innovations like zello?

>> it's been so exciting. the first half of my career and early internet protocols and you fast-forward now 20, 30 years an unbelievable these devices everybody has in their pockets that are so cheap and sell fast and so great and so companies like zello, there's 23 people in the company with 120 million users. making a difference in just the leveraging the power that these layers of technology have had on society has been so much fun to watch and so exciting and it wouldn't exist in any way whatsoever. >> with that in mind, what role do you see the public having in encouraging that kind of investment infrastructure necessary to make zello work? >> of the free market style guide this would be personal. be careful and let's not fix what's not broken. it's worked extraordinarily

well, like plenty of problems. one of the things that becomes clear to me at zello through the emergencies you brought this up earlier was how much to supplement, you know, what his friend, what his fellow, but it is clearly friend and also easy to see the official organizations work in where i think you can how by looking now. what is happening here whether it came from inside this organization are not, how do we best use these new technologies and alternatives that are moving so much faster because there is such a different environment >> sera texas-based company. that the decision made to locate their arrested that you were there in the companies -- >> very purposeful.

the company was really built in was really built-in texas family moved to palo alto for venture investors in the higher people in dallas and zello came on at the same team and doing their best to san francisco palo alto or to austin, texas and we chose austin with no regret. access is a wonderful business climate. often really is a fabulous place with a culture that the slogan is keep austin weird and it's true. in every dimension. it steps on a paradox a variant thinking how world-class university they are and it's very easy to encourage people to move to austin, so that's been a great decision on our part.

>> what should states and cities be thinking about in trying to attract investment in businesses and talent like you've brought together with zello? >> i wonder how much they can do , you know, stay out of the way would be one answer. again, a light touch. it does feel like so much of it needs to be organic. the university has to be key wherever you see this technology companies working. >> so, before tuneln you founded tunein. you may not know if it should listen to train for your amazon's alexa and other smartphone devices. tell us about tunein and your

journey from tunein to zello. >> to journey to tunein started early in my career. i wanted a company and went through way too long getting ready and have to learn all these different disciplines. my own story was 9/11 have been at the year was 40 years old and i thought this a wake-up call. in the original idea with tivo for radio because i love audio, i love radio and i thought okay, the vcr for radio come another's tivo, but may learn buildout to learn not many people want that. but through a pretty tough , five, six, seven years of supporting connected devices for radio feature, the iphone came out with apps and exploded and quickly became a top overall app, top 50 apps for quite a

while and most of the markets around the globe and finally about that time would have been knock from sequoia capital who said we like what's going on. why don't we help? i wasn't there to much longer and about that time, zello is really the brainchild, the founder and the io and he and his team had done such great work from st. petersburg, russia. he was this amazing development team and i tried to get a handful of people with some success he was a holdout. he starts to get some traction with zello because it's a different kind of radio, it's about life conversation.

conversation and you hear the power in it that people have camped out nbc tens of thousands of communities come together, so it's an easy decision to help alex in a way that he needed unbelievable talent from st. petersburg, russia who needed somehow for now is the point we moved to austin. >> we have a lot of people engaged in internet technology public policy issues, but we also have entrepreneurs here and online we have lots of people who were starting up their own tech companies. any advice you give them? >> two successes and one major mistake was making decisions because you're afraid because it's hard. when i look back, most of my

mistakes have been because of that. you're doing something because you're afraid of what may go wrong. in the case of tunein, we had no revenue model and there is good reason to be afraid for a long time. and so, happily with zello we have a wonderful revenue model and because i mark spirits amateur and because there's cash in the bank and not nearly as afraid and so find a revenue model that works for your not dependent on outside money coming in for too long because that's a pretty risky business. >> a bit of a connection between the two as well. radiohead and recent year has been viewed as old tech as opposed to electric cars are the internet of things. what is your take on that and what is such an exciting innovation for you.

>> radio is about voice. top or sports or conversations are part assets of former radio. it is such a fundamental part of being human, so it's been around forever. as radio or phone calls, it is 8:00 a.m. rfm, ham radio for cb radio, satellite radio, those are really incidental, but the median itself is very exciting and the advertising medium is phenomenal. someone you trust in your head as a way of solving problems. one of the great things about radio is it is a companion. you can enjoy radio, enjoyed audio while you are doing something else. so unlike a video, you can be driving and listening for

running and listening. it is a medium that is always with you. in the zello version, as i explained it has so much power to communicate compared to tax, but it doesn't have the barriers for the cost of video, the social barriers. when are you going to turn on your skype camera? it's a pretty high bar versus when would you turn on your microphone. so is a fundamental we enjoy us humans is so important, isn't going away, a great mix of technology. i'm so excited about alexei voice control operation. >> attunement streams a lot of sports including my favorite major league baseball. and i am wondering if the future of tunein life events like sports or music.

>> tunein has been anchored on live from the beginning and one of the things that is so special about radio. it is five, happening now. and of course sports really demand alive and so, tv and radio oath there is recognition that is a core. audio advertising is a pretty tough business to be building a subscription option, which is great because it is tough for podcast another talent on the end. still not a great market for audio apps, but sports is important, news, talks. >> time for some questions here. [inaudible]

>> well, you need some kind of data connection. that information really is the start of the hurricanes working by magic. it needs a network. it could be any kind. wi-fi or it could be so, but it's worked well around the globe in countries where nothing else works and that's one of the reasons it's been popular in a crisis situation. but you've got to have something. more questions. yes, sir. >> my name is terry had been. the federal government and states are investing frankly billions of dollars in deploying a nationwide verse that network. this description of zello sounds like you would eliminate the need for that type of investment am i misunderstanding what your service provides?

>> first responders need reliable network or they need to communicate between agencies. there is a need i'm sure for technology. i'm not that close. our business traction in the commercial sector first for some government business that these agencies need and that work that's reliable where they can communicate between organizations. it doesn't need to be radio. that's been tough for these agencies. as a citizen in newark at the spectrum is allocated for public service. for technologies that are reliable they've been around a long time. the real-life reliability of today's networks are unbelievable and so applications like zello can rival to the top without all the money or complications and certainly are

well suited for citizens and mismatch of citizens in agencies. i'm pretty excited about how can zello do better there. >> we have time for one more question. >> thank you from a gentleman. i am lower like callie at georgetown. i work with congress on bringing it into the 21st century. i'd be really interested in hearing both of your opinions on this. so congress is really not capped up with digital technologies certainly. it also working on it 45% less capacity on expertise than in the 1970s. i can actually get you the data. >> about see how. >> it's only recently there's been more additional data. things like 30% to 50% of

hearings happening and they fallen off the radar screen. the one idea that some of us have is we create through technology and data in social media is c-span channel four which doesn't exist right now but it would be a civic channel but has a cure ration purpose for congress that has time and space restrictions that old marvel institutions have to find and locate optimal knowledge for people's own constituents in that district. i know mr. goodlatte, you have been on top of the internet forever and where the cofounder of the caucus in the 90s i believe when i worked on the hill and it seems like now it is possible to do this, but the problem is as you put it there is no revenue model for

congress. it is a public serving organization and the prophet edition of this kind of service would be a disaster right think unless they were really strict rules put around it to protect it. do you see this as some pain possibly the technology and data industry might do on behalf of democratic institutions? >> well, yes i guess the short answer, what is realistic, how much can we help? one of the lessons from harvey back to send a mass scale is a self organizing with the right infrastructure and the right rules respond to meet the needs of society in such a wonderful way. of course a free market is based on that principle. not totally with the wicked pda style market for the dissemination and orchestration of that.

it's a way outside of my zone of expertise. i know at zello, we are totally satisfied when you see which you've worked on be used for good and make a difference and i'm sure that is true for most every other technology. so that's a challenge for both of us. i think we are the last thing standing between you and lunch and therefore we are going to get out of the way and tim or someone would sell you how to go about getting lunch. [applause] [inaudible conversations]

[inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations]

[inaudible conversations] tran tan -- [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations]

>> so, a brief break in this internet policy conference that is taking place all day here in the nation's capitol. we will continue with live coverage as soon as they return. this afternoon we expect to hear remarks from congressman greg walden in sec congressman robert mcdowell this afternoon. rosa morsel and rob rosenstein will address the conference. we will be recording their comments and will have been later in the c-span networks. while we wait to return will go back to this morning's "washington journal" for discussion about tax policy. >> welcome backs. to the progra. nina olson is the irs national taxpayer advocate here to talk

about the irs and implementation of new tax law amongst other things. good morning to you. just go good morning. >> host: remind people about the role you take a direct. >> guest: and the voice of the taxpayer at the iris. i had the taxpayer advocate service about 17, 1800 employees. we hope the taxpayer solve their problemsms with the irs and make legislative and administrative recommendations to mitigate those problems. >> host: one of the things he written frequently about in your part to congress was the new tax law passed and signed into law by the president. is the irs ready to implement that? >> guest: that was a major concern because of the budget as the irs has experienced particularly since 2010. about 20% in inflation-adjusted dollars than in a major list like the new tax law,, which requires about 400 new changes to form. there are 140 filing season

systems they need to be reprogrammed and people need to be retrained and taxpayers need to be educated and that is on top of its regular work. i have been very concerned about that. the irs is plugging along, doing things, but it has been a budget request for additional funding for tax reform implementation to congress. >> host: if there were deficiencies leading up to this, what were they caused by? >> guest: you know, some of it is there t was an underestimatin of the importance of taxpayer service and outreachye and education that i think people have not given full credence to the fact that any major change is going to have great anxiety to the taxpayers of the united states. they wantei stability in their lives in terms the relationship of the tax collector and not having answers and not knowing and not necessarily been able to getho through on the phones are the irs tax law questions online

off on the day after filing season in so if you call on that day, it is like there's nobody there to answer. to me, particularly with the new law, and that is when t i'm thinking, well how is this going to affect me next year? i finished my 2017 return. i see what happened in 2017, what is going to go away or what will be added in 2018? that's when i pick up the phone and call the irs. as of now there would be nobody to answer the phone and i'm concerned about that. >> host: these are things we will consider an hour with nina olson. call 202-748-0000 or 202-748-0001 for the mountain pacific time zone. you can also tweet questions i c-span wj. what are the chief concerns looking for the irs to get answers? >> obviously what we saw in december was concerned about the property taxaxce limitation andi

think there was a great deal of confusion and it is still working its way through and i think we'll probably be facing this in the father that for years as people say i paid in advance or not should be a contribution to my state or whatever and whether the courts uphold back, i don't know. now what you are seeing in most people's minds are theymi withholding per rack in the irs has put out a withholding table, but they are still working on the w-4 formally used to claim exemptions but there's no personal exemption under thehe w law for thisco current year ando you have to redesign not form in the irs is also i working on a little website, calculator on the website, but they don't have thepe calculator out and people are going to have to fudge. i tried to do it for myself last week and it took me literally about two hours to calculate

what i thought was the right amount to be withheld every two weeks, which is how ii get paid to make sure that i wasn't under withheld, but i also wasn't putting a lot of money and because i don't particularly want to give an interest-free loan to anybody. >> host: normally in this kind of questions in the past someone would call the irs, someone most likely would have an answer. >> guest: you could have an answer up on the website into a calculator or things like that. they are running around trying to get that out. they realize that is critical. like i say, there are about 400 forms, publications, rulings that have to be revised based on this law and that is going to take a year or two, a year and a half if not much longer going forward justst to get a sick information in the basic provisions of the law. >> host: listen to the words of treasury secretary steve someone who is interviewed about the implementation process and

then get your take on it. here he is. >> a massive amount of work at treasury in the iris prodigious amount withholding tables of people would get tax breaks in february. the good news is there is nothing they've identified so far that we think is particularly problematic that we need technical correction. there were like 80 sections of the bill better left to the secretary to put out regulations. we have a lot of work at treasury and irs. >> very often the iris as marburg but there doesn't seem to be new evidence of hiring more irs agents. is there an effort or you need to do that? >> this touches every single aspect of y the irs from technology to processes to forms and we are speaking to congress about getting additional funding for the implementation. we would expect that we would

hire significant number of people to help with the implementation. >> what you get from that? >> guest: i agree with him in the way he has assessed it and in fact the administration put out a request come a formal request for $397 million over twowo years. 18 and 19. in not is what we call full-time equivalent, you know, hours, positions to deal with outreach education taxpayer assistance. so that his new hires and not his admit they can't. you know, i think about the two year we have to do her programming now to be able to do the testing, if satoru for next filing season and it's really just 11 months and that is not very long in something as massive as this to be redesigning a significant number of the systems.

so do they've been getting not come under or two things. the irs will implementl this bill, this law, but if they don't get the funding, what will they take the money from in order to reprogram the systems like god and that is where i'm really concerned. we've seen that happen before when i arrested not give funding to implement the affordable care act and they really put on hold taxpayer friendly and important improvements to the computers, to the system and i am worried if we don't get that funding, we will see that start again and i don't want that to happen. postcode nina olson, iris national taxpayer advocate. 202-748-0000 eastern and central time zones. 202-748-0001 in the mountain pacific time zone. we will start in new jersey with pat. you are on with nina olson. go ahead. >> hello, ms. olson. can you tell me has the iris changed with implementing the

affordable care act?? i was told many times on "washington journal" the only way for them to collect the penalty was to withhold the refund and just a month or so ago i got a letter asking me to file amended returns showing proof of payment or else pay penalty. what did they do to the affordable care act? on this new tax law, does the penalty go away and 2018 or what i have to wait until 2020 to avoid the penalty? >> guest: it is my understanding and believe me, i am still studying the act at the same time as everybody else. it is a very large bill. but it does not go away for the taxea year 2018 for the returnsf your filing in 2019. my understanding is that goes away for the return -- the tax year 2019 for the returns you would be filing in 2020 and if i am wrong, someone can correct me, but that is my understanding

of it. in terms of the implementation, the law says the only way the irs can pull out this is by basically offsetting the refund our taxpayers making those payments. you have a refund on your regularr tax reform in the penalty they will offset the amount of the penalty up to the amount of your refund in there will still be a liability on the books if you get a refund for next year they can offset it again if you owe from the year before they can offset it against an extra's refund as well, but they can't go on a monday, mainly they can go into your bank account or your wages. that doesn't mean they won't send letters out to you as they have questions about whether you have the correct coverage or some people have not filed the form to reconcile what subsidy they've gotten an advance in and what they might owe at the end of the year and the irs will

normally through processing of returned sendd out letters sayig please send us this information or else we will impose the penalty because we don't tank you have the right coverage. that may be the notice to cotton and not maybe something easily resolved if you have the receipts or the evidence in things like that. that goes do you need to call the g irs that get through on te phones and depending what time of year it is, that is a very challenging thing to do. but i would not ignore that notice. i always tell people, do not ignore notices. the worst thing you can do is not respond because the irs in many ways is a machine and it will keep rolling and you agree you did something wrong and you don't want to be in that conversation. >> host: today is the first day people can file? >> guest: yes, january 29th. john, go ahead. >> caller: good morning.

the irs is antiquated the 21st century. do you ever hear a block chain algorithms, you know, monitor your account. why can't irs do the same thing in that the end as your income goes up will take her out. ifyo your income goes down i'll take what's up at the end of the year they will send you a check. ron paul said once a smaller government. being a lobbyist and talk to steve mnuchin. >> host: okay color, we get it. >> guest: i am not a lobbyist. i'm a federal employee and i was appointed by the secretary in 2001 but my job described by congress in the internal revenue code, which is to be an irs employee, but be independent and speak up for taxpayers. in fact, your points are really well taken about how antiquated the irs is and i have written pages and pages and pages in the

annual report to congress pointing out how antiquated it is and how behind the times it is compared to other tax systems around the world. you know, it is not just watching. it is use of artificial intelligence. the irs has the two oldest databases in the federal government according to the government accountability office which are systems wherecc we hod the individual tax information in all the business tax your information and that is scary when you think about that. on the other hand, one of the things that we don't have in our system and the system you describe that knows what money you have coming in, although we have a lot of information reporting of wages and interest and dividend incomes, other countries have what they call a pay as you earn system so that what you make from your employer is withheld in exact rate and all you have to do at the end of

the year, you don't even have to do anything. the government knows this information and tells you whether or -- that you are done unless you've had of employment income or your thoughts on stock sales or something like that. then and only then do you have to file. addedd information reporting can be a burden on employers are independent contractors and so far there hasn't been a political will to do that kind of thing. my office has actually this year proposed something like that and we are working on a study next year to show what the rest of thees world does and what steps the irs could take to get a little closer to that. >> host:wi a couple related twitter. over how come they can do better job of identifying fraud. another person as what about security. we'll fraud increase thiswi yea? >> you know, from 2005, my office because we get the cases

from taxpayers. we get 240,000 cases a year from taxpayers who really have problems with the irs and the number one issue that we have had since about 20 times has been identity theft. it really blossomed into used to be identity theft was maybe a one-off person getting a social security card and trying something too cute by half but it moved into organized crime and organized effort and that is what we've seen. the irs has a lot of filter to try using intelligence to try to identify the trends in the schemes and things like that. some things that have really happened but have held does congress last year was the first filing season, and this is the second time of ordered employers to give us their w-2 information

by january 31st when they filed a social security and what that is done is given as today is the 29th, so by wednesday, we will have most of the w-2 information so we can run returns through as they come in to see whether this is a fraudulent return because the w-2 isis made up and doesn't mah the real return the taxpayer is. last year we were able to not stop as many legitimate tax payers when we didn't have that information we didn't know which one was thee correct returned ad you have to stop both and that puts a burden on the legitimate taxpayer. so that is getting better. i have decided, you know, that these are very, very clever and for every more you whacked down, and there's another one with

another scheme and it's just very difficult. we're always going to have some legitimate tax tears caught up in this and you need to give them one employee. don't make them call and tell their story to different people in this year, the irs has agreed that. it's taken since 2005 to agree. and will really work with you so you don't fall through the cracks. there's a local taxpayer office at this one in every state. actually 79 around the country so sounds a far more than one who stays with you start to finish and if you have more than one year caught up, we are not

going to close the case until you resolve all of those issues. >> taxpayer advocate irs.gov. more information about the local offices. teresa in north carolina, hi there. hi, how are you? i'm calling to ask the question that this year will you be able to take the interest off their home and property taxes. i get one for month and i don't really know. we can still use this next year or will it be impacted this year 's >> when you say this year, for the year you were filing, 2017, the old law is in place so you'll be a lot to a lot to deduct your state and local income taxes if you can itemize as well as your property tax is

on your personal residence. and then the same thing with your mortgage interest. there is the current research, the loan has to be a million dollars or less. we will be filing 2019, the rules have19 changed. at the top for your state and local income taxes and property taxes combined for $10,000. if you claimed more than $10,000 in 2017, you'll only be able to0 claim up to $10,000 in 18 and for mortgages, it's the cap you can deduct your mortgage interest, but only up to a loan for 750,000 except some mortgage loans are grandfathered in. if you have a loan today or rather the end of 2017, it was a

million, then that sort of grandfathered in. i'm not mortgage interest side, that his words you really need to look at the rules once the irs issues guidance on not been also called the irs and get answers to your tax law questions or you may feel n like you need to go to a preparer. one thing that i've really recommended to the irs and is absolutely necessary in addition to keeping the phones for tax law questions open beyond april 17th this year is that there be a dedicatedd phone line for people like you to be able to call a toll-free number to ask those questions without having to hire someone right away. the answer may be these are the basic rules and you may feel i don't understand the basic rules and now i need to consult with

someone. but your government should be able to give you the basic rules and not basic information. >> host: this is the basic 20171040. any changes they should know about? >> guest: not really. the main change is more procedural refunds being issued for people who are getting the earned income tax credit and the advanced child tax credit and they were involved in not. they're refunds will be delayed until february 15th and they probably won't go out until a week or 10 days after that date and that is the law. >> host: leads attributed to what? >> guest: about was when they were concerned about improper payments for the earned income tax credit, which is a refundable tax credit. you don't have to owe any taxes and you'll still get money back and it is given to the working poor, primarily who have children so it go to low income

working families, but there's been, it's a very complex provision, so there's a lot of error in it. it's not the most erroneous thing, but the dollars going out congress has been concerned. let's get the w-2's and early and get a chance to match them come a chance to look at these returns before we issue the refunds. they have said no refunds every year on those two provisions for returns with those provisions until april 15th. >> host: sheila is in louisiana. hi, there. >> host: the question is about publication 17 for the 2017 income tax ear. it is still incorrect on the website irs. can you tell me when you're going to do? >> guest: it's an old publication. have you checked this morning? because even when last week,

since the filing season hadn't begun -- >> a proud sponsor of the lunch today as well as one of the projects of the internet education foundation. the congressional act challenges many of you know is a congressional initiative in which members of congress post across the country to inspire students to get involved in computer science and stem education. .. >> he has been a spearhead in terms of bringing the congressional app challenge to oregon district two, and it's exciting to see what his students have created. i am excited to be here to introduce robert mcdowell who will be doing a fireside chat with the house committee

chairman of energy and commerce, chairman greg walden. robert served as commissioner of the fcc from 2006 to 2013, and he is currently a partner at cooley llp. robert and chairman walden, please come up to the stage. [applause] >> well, thank you. great to be here. we're getting the post-lunch buzz. maybe everyone will fall asleep, and you can say all sorts of controversial things, and no one will pay attention. [laughter] so i'm going to give him a very brief introduction because he really doesn't need one, as the cliche goes, but also because we're short on time. chairman walden is from the state of oregon. his family came in an actual wagon train in 1845, served in the -- in both houses of the statehouse in oregon, and in

1998 -- i'm cutting through a lot of history here very quickly -- he's married to the very patient and virtuous mylene for almost 36 years, and they live in hood river with their son, anthony. he was chair of the nrcc from 2012-2016 where he racked up more of a larger republican majority in 80 years or something like -- okay, in history. ever, ever. and he's been chair of house energy and commerce which has unlimited jurisdiction, i understand -- [laughter] sorry. made a little sliver there. since 2016. as a former fcc commissioner, there are a few numbers and letters which are very important, w7eqi. that's his amateur radio license qualifying -- [laughter] which we all had to know at the fcc. so why don't we jump right into things. there have been a few things in the news cycle in the past, oh,

12 hours or 24 hours or so. [laughter] one of which has to do with, apparently, national security council, someone there has made a recommended that, for national security reasons, the next generation 5g networks being built here with private risk capital in the united states of america should be nationalized, owned and operated, i guess, by the federal government. so i don't know if you want to think about that a little longer -- [laughter] do you have an opinion or do you want to make some news? >> or if i want to make -- well, first of all, thank you. i want to thank the f challenge, melissa and everybody that works on that and helping young people take a real interest in coding and in getting involved in this internet ecosystem that we all care so much. and, robert, thank you for your service on the fcc. it was always a joy to have you before the committee when i chaired the subcommittee on telecommunications and the internet, and you're just a

terrific public servant, and we appreciate your leadership and bringing your brain power to all these issues. 5g. you know, we've done a lot of work over the last few years to clear spectrum, to get it out into the public domain so we can expand out and be the center for innovation and really increase connectivity across our land. when i learned about this issue, i think it was yesterday when it broke, side note, didn't know. [laughter] you know, it kind of -- first thing that came to mind, obviously, we all care about the security of our networks and all those issues and the security for the country. but the first thing came to me mind was that hack that got into all the government's secure data called opm. now, a government that can't protect the data of its own employees, i just struggle with the notion it's going to run a complete architecture and network that will be hack-free. nor do i think it's in the best interests of the kind of culture and economy we have here that believes in capital investment

from the private sector. we're not venezuela. you know, we don't need to have the government run everything as the only choice. now, we need to make sure these networks are safe and and secure. we know there are bad actors out there and in different countries trying to infiltrate our networks, so i got that you've got to have a partnership here. government taking it over, controlling it is probably, clearly, not the way to go. >> so i just was sent a text saying that the white house is now saying they're not considering nationalizing 5g. >> that's good. [laughter] nor 3g. >> nor 4g. 4g, actually -- >> they're going for 2g. the it's the next great thing. [laughter] no, look, we have to be able to have these discussions. we're having a little fun with this here. we need to have robust discussion, people need to kick out ideas, i get that, and i don't think it had elevated itself to where the white house had a position on this, by the way. and i have every confidence that, you know, some of the

other important elements of the government, the fcc, the ntia would have weighed in in the proper time and matter. this is a leaked document, apparently, according to news reports. it should also trouble us, frankly, the other part of us -- the national security council can't keep track of its own power point? [laughter] just saying. >> that's probably all i should say on that topic. [laughter] my staff says i'm out of time, gotta go. >> so i think originally before this news sort of broke with the state of the union coming up, as we always have state of the net around the time of the state of the union, and infrastructure being a hot topic for 2018, historically infrastructure initiatives have been very bipartisan. when i say that thinking about spectrum in particular, but it could be a number of different things involving the internet, broadband in particular. and what would you like to see happen this year? >> well, i'd like to continue to build on our successes from the

past. as you know back to 2012, we were able to free up -- begin the process to free up the spectrum that went to auction, generated incredible receipts, unpredicted in terms of amount. it was $44.4 billion, by the way, for those of you that keep score,cbo gave us a zero score when it sold, $44 billion, and the rest of the television auction took place. and we've got to fix the repack piece to make sure it's properly funded which was the commitment to broadcasters. so that is working its way through the process right now. i've been in regular contact with -- do i have to call him assistant secretary? >> you know, for those of you who don't know, he was the chief counsel on telecom subcommittee for six years, and now i have to probably address him as the honorable too, but not in public. [laughter] >> you could also subpoena -- [laughter] >> you know, i am waiting, my

team over here already has the letters written. 38 questions for everything he says. [laughter] but to continue, so we did 2012, we did spectrum auction, we're continuing to scrub spectrum because it is finite. what else is out there that we can bring to market. so that's one piece of this as a continuing effort. second, the fcc under chairman pai, who i want to give great applause to, he's been a great leader to work with and has identified that they should follow the law. this is shocking news in the nation's capital. [laughter] there is a problem in the law that precludes him from legally putting the auction, some of the auction deposits, proceeds into the proper place legally. the last administration just went ahead and did it. he's not going to do that. we literally have to change the law to say you can deposit it here, there, wherever. that's high on our list so we can proceed in regular order with more spectrum auction. second, we have of a hearing

tomorrow starting at ten, we have 25 pieces of legislation, ideas from republicans, democrats, republicans and democrats, democrats and republicans -- [laughter] on infrastructure. and a lot of it has to do with getting the government's processes out of the analog age into the digital age. and by that i mean streamlining how you can move forward and getting the government to move at the pace of innovation in the high-tech sector. or i give you an example, and i'm going to refer to my notes because sometimes you get fact checked in this business. [laughter] crown castle. crown castling was a wireless infrastructure company, and in 2016 was looking to expand their tower site which was in a parking lot by a 14x10 area adjacent to its existing tower. they had to prove there was no adverse effect in doing that in a parking lot. they had two dozen entities to work through.

it took them five months to complete and thousands of dollars just to add 40 square -- 140 square feet around the tower they already have. so my friend and colleague, fred shimkus, has introduced a bill addressing the subject. it's things like that that stand in the way of the buildout we all want. and in our rural areas, this is especially important, in districts such as mine it's even more important where 55% of the land in the district i represent -- which, by the way, is two-thirds of the land mass of oregon -- but with all the siting requirements, it's not that you want to void the environmental requirements, it's just you need to be able to expedite the process so it does -- i had a tiny little town of less than probably 150 people

spend well over three years trying to get permits to put four power poles on bureau of land management land so they could finally get three-phase power into this town. four power poles. so, i mean, these are the things we're going to look at, see how do we expedite the process going forward. and then we want to make sure the mapping's done right. when the obama administration did the stimulus, they pushed the money out the door before they knew where the maps were for areas underserved. we want to get the mapping right. the limited federal resource that does get spent on broadband buildout should be spent in areas where it's least economically attractive to the private sector. in other words, we don't need to overbuild, and we need to build where there's minimal service. 39% of rural areas in america, some 23 million people, lack access to modern day high-spied internet -- high-speed internet. so we've got a whole series of bills to lock at all of those

issues and more. >> so you come from a uniquely rural area, you just said how large and diffuse the population is. very few people spread over a large area. what do you think are some of the better solutions for rural -- you talked about removing regulatory barriers that the state and federal -- or and local level. but what else could be done. more spectrumsome. >> you're always going to need the backhaul, so you need to get fiber out across these areas and using existing right-of-ways makes sense, but also i think with the new wireless technology, perhaps a new satellite technology, the ability to move more data through existing systems makes sense. let's face it, in some of these areas i've got some county cans where there's one person for every nine miles of power line. that's probably not going to be economically achievable by

connecting each house with a cable or fiber. but what you can do now from a wireless standpoint and when you get to 5g and get 100x of the throughput you can get now with lte, that's going to change lives. so i think the faster we can get 5g developed here and then out, removing these -- i'll call them analog impediments, and then getting the streamline part with the federal agencies. and the trump administration issued a couple of proclamations directing the federal agencies to try and streamline their siting efforts. and, again, it's not to void any of the environmental laws, it's just to try and speed up the process. >> so we look forward to dave giving us more federal spectrum to auction -- >> by thursday. >> by thursday, okay. good to know. >> i have a subpoena. [laughter] >> so net neutrality. i know we're short on time here, but how does the fcc's recent

action affect broadband rollout but also legislative priorities? >> you know, it affects it. it's affected it for years. i remember sitting down in my capitol office with senator thune and then-chairman upton and myself and tom wheeler asking tom not to proceed and give congress an opportunity to legislate. and we thought we were moving down a pretty good path that they, and then that got reversed, and he went ahead we the title ii regulation. the effect of that was we had real difficulty trying to find any bipartisan agreement on anything that came anywhere near the fcc since then because one side says it's, oh, all net neutrality. no, actually, we need to modernize the fcc, we need to do other things, and so we're marching through that. look, we ought to be able to find common ground to prevent the bad behaviors that all of us can agree upon, throttling, blocking. we're going to have a hearing on paid prioritization, because that gets into how the internet

works today. you know, you have, in effect, paid prioritization, cdns, you have a situation where traffic's prioritized today. 9/11 calls should be prioritized over watching some crazy cat video on youtube, right? voice packets over data packets. there are things that happen today in the management of the internet that make sense. and i don't think they're fully understood by the public or my colleagues or even myself. i mean, that's why we do hearings, that's why we ask for the input. we want to get the policy right. but what with we need to get is certainty. certainty will drive more investment. if we just continue on with litigation versus litigation, administration versus administration, america will move further back and back in innovation. and i don't want that to happen. i want broadband investment to go up, not go flat. and i think you're seeing that with the tax code changes and other things we can do. we can drive more investment in

broadband buildout. and it's done at the private sector more than the public sector. you know, you think about the huge amount of coverage over the arra investment in the obama administration was $7 billion. the private sector every year does about 80. 75, 77, 78 billion a year. that's where it's at. that's what's going to build out. and we need to cement that partnership, move forward and get connectivity everywhere we can at high speed. so i'd like to see us move forward in a bipartisan way on the issues where we can find agreement. i think the cra is dead on arrival at 1600 pennsylvania avenue. it's great politics for some, but it's not going to, it's not -- even if it passes the house and the senate, i can't imagine it'll end up with the djt on the paperwork. and so why are we coming together today, as i've tried to do for the last five years before the net neutrality rules were implemented by the wheeler administration or fcc, and

legislate in this space? and so i'm asking all parties, let's do it. i've had draft proposals on the table since probably 2014, 2015. >> part of what you're saying is the cra effort is not the legislative solution that some are advertising it to be. >> no, it's just a bulldozer. takes you back to where it was and says the fcc can't do any activity in this space, most likely. which may not be what people want. and beyond that, you know, you're seeing a growing debate out there including at davos where some pretty surprising characters said it's more than just the internet service providers that may need to have a discussion about net neutrality, it may be the edge providers, it may be the facebooks and the amazons and all that. and the more you learn about how they operate and how their algorithms work and the trolls and, you know, how many followers do you really have and how many did you just buy, and is somebody monetizing all that, by the way? you know, you go back, you're in the newseum here, and a great

newspaper business has to certify how many readers they have and publish that. because that's what they sell advertising rates based upon. you think about today's information world, are we getting scammed in this market? who knows? i don't know. we know there are bots out there that pretend to be people, and there are followers that don't exist, and all of this is getting monetized. i think there's role for the ftc, the fcc and congress. >> is this an area where your committee will be doing some further investigation? >> yep, absolutely. >> on the state of the market, the state of the net overall? >> absolutely. here's my view, you've got to put the consumer first. and if you put the consumer first, it means you have a market you can trust in, and that will drive innovation and competition which should lower prices and expand choices more consumers. and if there's bad behavior, we will go after it, i don't care who it is. and the energy and commerce committee has a pretty good record on doing that going back, republican and democrat chairs. >> excellent. so you mentioned earlier the

broadcaster repack process. this is in the wake of the 600 megahertz auction, the spectrum act of 2012 which you and i worked on a little bit together when i was at the commission as you were writing it. and it's a complex endeavor with the fcc's about to undertake, and you mentioned before there might need to be some more help or thought in that area. i wanted you to sort of elaborate. >> you know, the commitment that was med to broadcasters -- made to broadcasters, if you're not part of the auction, we're going to do our best to make sure you're not harmed in viewership or paying price or penalty because you're getting moved around. additionally in the legislation we put forward, we had $3 billion was the identified figure of what we thought it would cost to do the repack. that got negotiated down between the parties to $1.75 billion and now, guess what? the number is probably about $3 billion. now we've allocate all the auction proceeds, so we have to go find money to make this up. we need to make this up not only to keep our word, but also to

grease the skids at getting the repack done. public broadcasters are running into a problem because the fcc, i think, is only laying out 80% of the money at the time, so there are questions about where going, what you can commit to and what are you going to get reimbursed. we don't need that. so i'm working really hard to figure out the funding stream and make any other associated changes we need to to make sure the repack can continue on time. 39 months, you've got tower issues with a limited supply of people that climb and move and erect towers. that's an issue we've looked at in the committee. we don't need anything that stands in the way of this progress, because what stands in the way there is building out the new networks and the higher speeds and throughputs and coverage areas. we need all this to stay on track and work. it's what the investors in the spectrum paid for, was the spectrum on a timeline. they pred date canned their business model on that, broadcasters were promised they

wouldn't incur any losses, and congress now needs to step up and true this up. and i think we'll have an opportunity to do that. >> and do you think that can be done on a bipartisan basisesome. >> yeah, i hope so. i don't -- you know, frank pallone who i've developed a great working relationship with on many issues, i know he's got a bill authorizing this. it's always easy to authorize, by the way. it's hard to appropriate from an authorizing standpoint. [laughter] appropriators get funny about that. but we've got to find the money. and we're shoulder to shoulder on that. >> very good. so i know we're starting to run out of time, but the recent false alarm in hawaii brought attention to all of our emergency alerts and even a conversation regarding 9/11 and next generation 99 11. -- 911, what would you like to see happen in. >> we'll have the commission before the committee next week, is that right? i've got to look -- february. >> false alarm. >> well, i guarantee you a

couple of things, one, you mentioned i'm an amateur radio operator, although i'm not active too much, and two, i have a wired in emergency alert system in two or three radio stations because my wife and i ran radio stations for 20 years. i go back far enough to remember when it was the emergency broadcast system and it was an orange book in the control room next to the operator, and inside was a pink envelope that had identification codes in case of a national emergency. and those got changed out i'll say every month, you got a new envelope, you destroyed the old one, you never opened it. it's like ripping the thing off your mattress, i think, i don't know what was going to happen -- [laughter] seriously, this was very well thought out. i cannot imagine a scenario where me sitting goes, hey, pushed the wrong button, and we have a nuclear attack coming.

i just don't know how that would have happened. and so i think this needs evaluation. i talked to chairman pi that night -- chairman pai that night, there could have been loss of life as a result of this because, you know, we had, we had an interesting thing when i was in the radio business. fortunately, i had a retired guy who just wanted to do saturday morning shift. and tom was a great guy, cool head, and they were doing a mock drilling in oregon, and the whole shtick was that one of the major main stem dams across the columbia river had been breached. now, if that happens, portland's under a whole bunch of water. is so they're going through all the drills and emergency casualty stuff, this is all a drill, and he gets the call saying, okay, now it's your turn to activate the emergency alert system and notify people of this disaster. and he said, okay, thanks. no, you have to do that. he said, no, no, no, i don't think i'm going to push the button and actually go on the air and say bonneville dam's

been breached. i think that's sort of orson wells stuff. he refused to do it, but it can get to that level. wherever we are, we've got to be cognizant that safeguards are in place and especially in these treacherous times, dangerous times in places like hawaii or guam or somewhere that there's better command and control. so on the 50th anniversary of 9/11, on these events happening, i look forward to working with our first responder community and broadcasters and states and fcc to see whatten went wrong and how do we make sure it doesn't happen again. >> how are we on time? >> good for a question. >> one or two questions? are you willing to entertain one or two -- >> of course. i'll take 'em, you answer 'em. [laughter] >> we'll start over here first. >> thank you very much for -- >> wait for the mic. >> yeah. >> i apologize, i should have said that. we do have microphones, and there are people watching on the internet, apparently. >> i thought this was all off

the record. [laughter] >> a lot of tweets. >> thank you, congressman and commissioner, for a very enlightening presentation. i was encouraged to hear your discussions regarding infrastructure, and when we -- >> you say who you're with? >> i'm here with connect americans now, my name is bill sheeting. and when we talk about the digital divide in rural america, we often hear a lot about public investment but little about specific technologies that will deliver broadband to underserved areas. and there are some stakeholders, including the coalition connect americans now, who are advocating for the use of tv-wide space technology to play a role in this mission. do you believe it should be a part of the solution, and then if so, what steps do congress and the fcc need to take to unsure -- >> you know, i think they can be. so as an old radio guy, i want to make sure we don't have interference, that's the first thing. wherever you are in the spectrum, light scared and all the issue -- light squared and

all the issues that followed that, you want to maximize use of the spectrum, but you don't want to create unintended consequences that in this case could be interference with existing users. and so that's something we asked the gao to look at, that's something we're continuing to investigate. i'm not opposed at all to it as long as there isn't some sort of interference issue. that has to be first and foremost. but, look, we're scouring every bit of spectrum we can to do the kinds of things that you're talking about as well as look at unlicensed, what the appropriate amount of that is. it's attention we had in the 2012 act. we're going to try to get millimeter spectrum out there. there's a lot we're doing. there was a time i would say in 2012, and i may be wrong on this, but where we thought some of the upper-end spectrum weren't really sure what that would be used for and did it have much value, and now we know that's some of the new beachfront, if you will. we're looking at how do we

maximize use of that as long as there isn't an interference area. >> do you have time for one more? >> yeah, sure. >> just wait for the mic and identify yourself -- >> [inaudible] can you say anything about any opportunity to update the 1996 telecommunications act. in other words, reform. >> yeah, thank you. you know, i started an effort on that when i chaired the telecommunications and internet subcommittee. we did a very extensive information-gathering project, connect update, and it had a lot of good input on how how to do that. it was my hope to do kind of a major rewrite. that, as i mentioned earlier, kind of collided with the big net neutrality in the room and kind of precluded our ability to move forward. on a big one. so what we're doing is looking piece by piece by piece. as a, as a member of congress, jurisdiction over an agency, i also think we need to look at the fcc's functions, how it works today ask modern -- and

modernize it. we always have all that obligation over all our agencies. so there's kind of that piece. then i try and look at the statutory responsibilities the commission has. and i think we're basically carving those up a piece at a time and program at a time. so we live in a, obviously, a different era than when the '96 act was written. the market has changed dramatically. and so we need to look at these different programs piece by piece, and that's what we're doing. so i would not look for a comprehensive redo of the '96 act. i think instead you'll see programmatic, program by program evaluations and changes going forward. and i should say under marsha blackburn, she's a terrific chair of that subcommittee, she's done a great job, and, you know, is full of vim and vigor and fire and wants to get things done. >> so colonel tom parker was elvis presley's manager, and he

always said leave the crowd wanting more. >> we should have stopped -- >> so elvis has left the building, ladies and gentlemen. please give him a big round of applause. [applause] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations]

[inaudible conversations] >> this afternoon a preview of the president's state of the union address. joining that discussion, hosted by "the washington post," kellyanne conway, nancy pelosi and senators angus king and shelley moore capito. live coverage at 2:30 eastern on our companion network, c-span. >> the president of the united states. [applause] >> tuesday night, president donald trump gives his first

state of the union address to congress and the nation. join us on c-span for a preview of the evening starting at 8 p.m. eastern, then the state of the union speech live at 9 p.m. following the speech, the democratic response from congressman joe kennedy. we'll also hear your reaction and comments from members of congress. president trump's state of the union address, tuesday night, live on c-span. listen live on the free c-span radio app and available live or on demand on your desktop, phone or tablet at c-span.org. >> and here's more about tomorrow night's state of the union address and a look at what's coming up this week in washington from this morning's "washington journal." >> host: joining us for a discussion onn many things, particularly in light of the white house and congress this week, are two guests. we're joining by darlene supervel, also