absolutely proud we are to join with pro mundo and new america foundation to host this discussion, men in the me too movement, moving from silence to solidarity and how do we do that? i think all of us in this room would agree that we are in the middle of something pretty darn historic. but just how historic i think remains to be seen. this could be the beginning of the end of a culture of silence, of fear, of complacency. this could be the beginning of the end of violence against women, one of the most destructive and universal challenges we face. i think it's too early to see where this momentum right now with the me too movement is going to lead, but the one thing we do know is that we're going to make sure more women's voices are heard and more women's rights are protected, absolutely. you know, when vital voices was started 21 years ago, we didn't

have the allies or the awareness that we have today. today we have stronger laws and louder advocates. but violence against women still persists. in fact, many people would believe looking at the numbers that things are getting worse, not better. why? why in 2018 do we still face this major problem? why? because violence against women is tolerated. it's accepted. it's culturally condoned. so really we're not going to be able to address the issue of violence against women until we change culture. men are absolutely critical in that equation. what we've known at vital voices for a long time is that we are never going to get from where we are today to where we want to be in the future without men as our partners and allies. and i'm so thrilled to have so many of these great men with us here today. in fact, each year vital voices honors extraordinary men with

the voices of solidarity award, and we actually have three of those extraordinary guys here who have really dedicated their lives, 20, 30 years to ending violence against women. we have don mcpherson with us we have don mcpherson with us today, one of our first honorees. gary barker, of course from promundo, and jackson katz. we are so thrilled to have our honorees with us. these are men i really feel are helping us deal with the silent majority. the majority of men are nonviolent, but they're also silent. so how do we move from that silent majority to voices of solidarity to truly create change? launching us in this first discussion i'm going to turn it over to my great colleague cindy dyer. she has dedicated her life to eliminating violence against women.

ms. dyer: thank you so much, elise. we are so excited, thank you all for coming out here on a cold friday morning and for joining us as we begin a discussion about what is driving some of this sexual assault and harassment that we see and how can men and women work together to move forward to change that pattern? i have got an amazing panel. immediately to my first left is ms. summers who is the national organizers of the women's march the to her left, gary barker president and ceo of promundo. jackson katz, professor and founder of nvp strategies. and jessica raven, executive director of collective action for safe spaces. i'm going to start off the conversation and encourage all my other panelists to jump in with gary barker. gary has been a long-time advocate in the engagement of

men's engagement to end violence against women and he and his promundo has conducted extensive research against violence. so i'm going to start off with you, gary, and if you can tell us based on your experience and knowledge, what do we know about what drives sexual assault and harassment? mr. barker: well, first, i get to say that promundo believes in data and research so we're kind of about making facts great making facts great again, particularly important in this moment, which is to say what is it that -- what do we know about it as we got lots of blogs going out, lots of conversation, what do we know that drives sexual harassment and sexual assault? and the simplest answer is the way that we raise our sons. this thing that we call manhood, sometimes we call it toxic which i think kind of takes us down a negative, it kind of doesn't give much space for men to do

other things. and that's not just a vague thing. we can measure it and we can look at whether we're making changes to improve. so we've -- some of you know we did a study together with acts last year called the man bucks and we included questions there about sexual harassment. so what do we know what drives it and which men are carrying it out? we talked to random samples of young men in the u.s., u.k., and mexico. what is sobering to say is it's not about toppling a few men in power. we found in the last month 20% to 1/3 of men ages 28 to 30 carried out some kind of harassment or bullying against women or same-sex peers. it's not a random thing. it's important to say what elise did, that the majority are not. but it's important to say that's in the last month how many young men are carrying out some kind of harm, most of it sexual and most of it gender based, with that frequency. which young men? it wasn't education, ethnicity, it wasn't urban rural, or much difference across the three countries except the u.s. young men did it more, so that's

also a little bit sobering. yes, more. you can see why mexico wants to build a wall, because our young men were the ones showing the most rigid norms about this. which young men? the single largest factor was if you bought into a rigid tough-guy version of manhood you were more likely to harass. so those of you who like grass, we did this quintiles, if you're in the farthest tough guy quintile, you are five times more likely to harass than the guys who are not in that box. so what this says is these norms are created every single day and it's the silence around them. if we're not talking to our sons we know that they're happening out, whether it's online porn, whether it's male peers who say this is how you fit in, this is how you be the cool guy, we know what it takes to break that cycle. so i think we're sobered by how big and how powerful that version of manhood is and yet we've got a lot of voices in this room who know what we can

do to change it. what do we know about what breaks that cycle and changes those norms? ms. dyer: the description that gary has given for the other panelists, is that consistent? i know that many of you have done research or have anecdotal information from your direct work. is that consistent with your experiences of what is driving or empowering young men to

that's one way that, you know, one behavior that we can look at. and also i think a lot of it is driven from what comes out of pain is rejection. ms. dyer: i'm going to ask my next question is actually for jessica down at the end. we are so excited to see more men taking a stand in this movement, whether it be from wearing buttons at the awards ceremonies or speaking out, we're so happy to see more men. you can talk with us about in your experience what is it that you think not only we like to point or what are men getting wrong, but also what are men getting right and what do you want to see more of? >> yeah, thank you for this question. i think that -- well, in terms of what we're getting -- i think all of us what we're doing better now is believing in supporting survivors, not just men, but people are starting to pay attention to the experiences of survivors.

i think that what we often are getting wrong in this national conversation on sexual violence is getting stuck in the gender binary. so this idea that -- basically i think that when we divide the genders between, you know, like it's men's violence against women, what happens is we leave out experiences those who are most marginalized, trans women of color, homeless survivors, nonbinary people, in terms of what men are getting right, i think there are a lot of men, queer and trans men, so i think straight men can learn a lot from them. we can't talk about gender straight -- we're talking about gender straight men and often white women. and that, even in using the term

sexual harassment, i've started to move away from that term because it doesn't include often the experiences of transwomen of color that i work with in the community or muslim women who do experience sexual violence but it's broader than that, it's not about sex, it's about power. and that manifests in different ways for different communities. so transwomen of color are often be misgendered, experiencing employment discrimination, being excluded from public spaces. muslim women that i've worked with have been harassed about hijab. so by narrowing the conversation to sexual harassment, we also narrow our idea of what the solutions might be so we don't think about housing as a solution to sexual violence because we're not thinking about homeless survivors. we don't think about employment as a solution to sexual violence because we're not thinking about, you know, black transwomen who are excluded from many places of employment and then turning to sex work to survive and then experiencing

high rates of police sexual violence. so i think that's what we i think can do a lot better at, centering the experiences of marginalized communities so that we can broaden our solutions and develop comprehensive solutions to sexual violence. ms. dyer: i hear, gary, that was similar when you were discussing the research that you had done, you specifically noted that the harassment was occurring to women but also you said to the lgbt community so i can see the consistency and similarity in jessica's comments. mr. barker: sure. and i think, you know, yonta was saying that as well, i think this is a challenging topic to bring up, which is that we know that another driver of men's use of violence is the violence they've experienced or witnessed growing up. and in saying that, we've got to be very humble and thoughtful about not trying to say men are the victims here after all. i think that's where that conversation sometimes goes. but i do think to acknowledge

the humanity that's often beaten out of boys of all sexual orientations growing up in far different ways needs to be acknowledged as part of this. i'm glad you brought up the trauma issue. that's a huge driver. the violence that we carry out as men is the violence that we have learned and often had happen on our bodies. if you ask boys and men about men's violence, all of us have an experience that we also feel i am afraid of that too. in saying that too we have to say it's not the same as your experience of that violence, and i think that's a tough one for us to hang on to and be humble about. ms. dyer: you know, as a perfect segue, neal, you and your colleagues that men can stop rape have been working directly with young men, the people that we are in fact talking about. and i am so -- what a valuable perspective that is. and i'm so curious to know is, you know, what do the young men, these individual men that you are working with, what do they feel about this movement?

how are they reacting to this movement? mr. irvin: yeah, i think it's a great opportunity to build on what's been said. i think our young people and for those of you who may not be aware, men can stop rape through our men of strength club and through our women inspiring strength and empowerment program for our female peers, meet weekly with young people not only here in washington, d.c., but 19 states and we do it through middle school through post secondary. for us, the conversations that are being had are very similar that older adults may be having. it makes sense to them intellectually. but for us what is even more important, it makes sense to them emotionally that they get -- we were talking last night at dinner that the younger people really grasp not only the intersections of all of this violence, but the impact it's having on their own lives and their friend's lives. so they're really motivated during this time to speak out. you know, young people are very empowered to talk and share their positions. so for us at men can stop rape

we're very excited to see it because it does support the importance of primary prevention, it does support the messages that we've been trying to promote. it does promote a message of inclusion, and it is an invitation and it's male positive. i mean, it's celebrating the fact that boys do like and want to be boys and that is not anti someone else, anyone else, but allows them space to figure out how they can contribute in the work. so we're very pleased with that because we feel that they are getting both kind of healthy body healthy mind approach to responding to this for a lifetime, not just for a season. >> i think one of the concerns because we feel that they are is that because there are so much of a focus on women and, as you said, sort of this negative men are bad, men are doing these bad things that we don't want to have young men and boys say, well, no, this is -- this movement is not for me because it's not about me. i'm a good -- you know, we won't want to turn them off. i'm wondering if any of you in your work are seeing men or

young men and boys respond negatively to this focus on young women. jackson. mr. katz: clearly one of the things you have to deal with as an educator or trainer or somebody who engages men and young men and boys across the spectrum, racial and ethnic spectrum, is guys do come to these conversations often defensive and they think they're going to be lectured and told what not to do. none of us who have been doing this work, i can speak for those of us that i know and certainly to my colleagues to my left and right, we never do that. that's not how the good education works. you engage people where they're at. you engage people, young men, you talk to them about how sort of cultural ideas how manhood have impacted them negatively as well as contributing to them harming other people. if you make those connections, michael kauffman wrote an article 31 years ago called the triad of men's violence. it's men's violence against women, men's violence against

other men, men's violence against themselves. all three are connected. people don't make these connections normally, but have you rape on college campuses where young men are raping their fellow students, women, men, and others. but you also have men over 50 committing suicide by gun. gun violence is a huge problem in this country. some people don't even realize that the majority of gun violence is suicide. and older white men are the primary category of men who commit suicide by gun. in other words, violence turned inward. the same system that produces young men who rape women on college campuses is the same system that produces older men who take a gun to their head. when you talk to men about these kind of things and make these connections, a lot of men realize this isn't just aboutal -- about all truism although that's important, it's also about self-interest. it's about taking care of themselves and their buddies. when you broaden the conversation that way, a lot of men relax, it's like i'm not

being bashed in this moment, i'm actually being challenged in a way to look inward, to be introinspective and take that and that new self-awareness and do something about it. that's the other piece. it's important that men have personal self-reflection and critical self-awareness and personal growth but it can't end there because with privilege comes responsibility. so we have to have growth personally and then take whatever have you learned about yourself and others and then go out and change the world, if you will, and change the spheres of influence that you have in your life. whether it's young boys in the peer cultures or powerful men in the highest pinnacles of power and authority. >> jackson, i appreciate this. this movement there are is not your first rodeo. you've been in this movement a long time and you've seen sort of phases and cycles, so you've seen this before. and i want to ask you, you know, based on the really the lengthy work that you have done, what is

the way for us to -- what are some things that have really worked as a way to make sure that men feel like this is a movement that they can join rather than a movement that is being pushed on them? and you mentioned one of those ways, but i'm wondering what are the best -- how do we get them to feel more involved and more engaged? mr. katz: that's a great question. i think that this has to be understood as a leadership issue and a social justice leadership imperative, period, end of sentence. for example, on college campuses where i worked for years and decades, people still to this day organizers try to figure out how do we get men involved? it used to be when i was young we would have table tents and posters put up on the wall and we'd be asking people to come to a meeting. now the technology has shifted obviously and there's text messages and all kinds of social media. we're going to have a meeting we hope some young men who are interested are going to come to this event. i'm done with that. i was done with that as a 20-year-old. if this is an imperative, if

college campuses are interested in saying we're going to end violence, it can't be an optional thing where we hope men will come. it has to be organically built at institutional practices at all levels that starts from the top. i think we have to make clear this is a leadership imperative. what i mean by that, at every level of institutional power, because this isn't about individual behavior, this is about institutional priorities and follow-through and accountability. at every level, if you're a principal of a high school, think of all the men and women obviously and there's men and women who are the principals of high schools, but there's lot of people who are men who are the principals of high schools who haven't done anything about these issues. they haven't used their platform in any way. meanwhile, we know from decades of research and gary's research is cutting edge as well as other research that shows this. we know that something over 50% of rape victims are raped by the age of 15 can which means that high school principals are presiding over kids who are already survivors of sexual violence, teen relationship abuse. we know this

we know this if the data is strong. why aren't those principles initiating mandatory programming and training for all the educators and coaches? why is itfo built in on the curricular side? if we know this and are serious about taking this seriously, so the key thing is institutional leadership. in the military, command climate is the commander, not the 19-year old troops. the commander has responsibility for setting the tone, making accountability follow-through, supporting survivors and creating a talentor and that's n the corporate world where it's tone, corporate ceos and managers and directors, they are ultimately what rickk-- responsible for what happens. if it becomes clear to institutional priority other men will follow because i think other then are waiting and eager

for this. they are often defensive, but you get them through the door you can begin the process, but you have to get them through the door. >> just to support every thing jack said, uc schools, doesn't matter it really does start with how we institutionalize this in terms of dosage and the things i said last night, we would never teach algebra once a week and never around these issues wait until they either are senior about to leave for college or orientation, so to support everything jack said, if we don't start training principals, school boards around how to institutionalize this album understand and another is research that supports this, the academic performance will be better so we still get algebra and calculus and all that. we have to create an institutional norm that this is a priority from k-12 and the

post secondary and it will transition into the workforce as a cultural expectation and jackson also said we can look to the military fort they still need to improve, but there is structure about leadership taking responsibility for the tone is set and wherever we had seen the most impact, male female however identify when young people are prioritized in the environment they are in and prioritized as one save and inclusive we see the production of the cut through the roof. >> jessica. >> i just wanted to build on that because i think jackson is correct, it it starts with leadership and has to start young. on the mother of a four year old boy who likes to wear dresses and we are on-- were in a plane the other day and a looking through magazine and we saw a picture of what appeared to be a

man wearing a skirt and he said boys don't wearng dresses and i thought that's strange you are wearing a dress the other day, don't you like to wear dresseshe and he said yeah. he said yeah, i'm a boy of, but somehow even though he's been wearing dresses all his life he's been learning in day care in preschool that suddenly this isn't okay and not appropriate so as to start with leadership and also i think we all have power to change those norms. i'm a believer in bystander intervention, so speaking out and calling out everyday sexism and teaching by standard intervention in schools of a young ageut and like jackson sad earlier, it's not really helpful to talk too men and boys of perpetrators of violence. it's not help at talk to people and say stop raping, stop harassing women. it's helpful to tell them what they can do, so intervening is one thing they can do to stop

the violence of other people, stop the harassment of other people and going by-- bystander prevention training helps people that are likely to cause harm to intervene and stop arm for meeting cause and build of theal thing in some-- makes them less likely to engage in behaviors themselves. >> in my opinion, went to becomes a leadership problem is already a learned behavior so i think to stop this issue and to be more progressive armies harassment-- issues, we really need to start at the heart adolescent age like three, four, five, six, sevenen and to teach our children what correct behavior is and it all goes down to the kind to one another. keep your hands to yourself. your body is your temple. you don't own anyone else's body and get on the right to put hands on anyone else, so iha thk

it's great to say leadership needs to take control and be more progressive and speak up, but i also think in our homes and our parents we need to be responsible for the rate they raise their children because i don't think that you go to school and you learn how to beat up kids. i think you have already learned that behavior and it comes from societyth and its something you learn as early as four, five, six, seven. >> i think i absolutely agree that both jessica says this, we need to do the stuff inr school and it can't be voluntary. not only to said we don't do algebra once a week, but algebra is not voluntary. we say this is stuff you need to be a citizen. another piece where we need to think about institutionalizing

this is parent training peer parents need support for what we do, so whether it's to leave and we know how precious this is. i think other ways to say we nudge you towards, we make obligatory certain parent training and we support you in that role because that's a crucial moment for early childhood. whether you watch gender equality modelsch in the home or watch violence in the home visit hugeol parenting, all the big institution and has be part of the workplace. we don't ask you, it do your timesheet. there are things we make you do and those in institutions wheres leadership says this is nonnegotiable, not trying to recruit young men to come to something. we have them as captive audience and make them do this, but obviously in a positive way.

>> i just want to build on something jessica said. i'm one of the architects of the bystander approach and i've been frustrated the last number of years in the us how may people have taken the social justice and feminist foundation of the bystander approach and move it away to what i believe a glorified nightclub bouncer model, see something say something.to in other words not diving deep into the gendered norms that underlie these behaviors, but talking about how you intervene at the point of attack and researchers and activists globally have a consensus that the most powerful and effective work and engaging young men and boys in gender violence profess -- prevention is what's called gendered transformative work which is giving boys and then the opportunity to think ,ritically about how manhood using that" underlies most of the visa behavior boys and men engage in towards girls and

women's: towards other boys and men and themselves and if you don't do the gender transformative work, it's just superficial and a waste of resources. we have enormous resources in the us and progressive programs in countries in the callable self doing more progressive work on this banner and we are in the .s it's pathetic and. i also can't let this moment zero. at the white house right now the popular conversation is a discussion about domestic violence and what's the difference between a guy who's a good employee and good worker, but has a side to himself that his dark, women in the battered women's movement and then men in the battered men's movement have known about this forer 50 yearst least that it doesn't matter, a guy can be a great performer at work and a great professional and be abusive. it's like where are the voices of women and men in the domestic violence movements on cnn today?

we have the same talking heads talk about domestic violence because they read an article in huffington post or something and now they are experts on the rustic violence. why don't they bring in many women who work with abusive men who have incredible insight? wise and a partt of the cultural conversation at this moment and it would be a way to elevate the work of domestic violence who have been attic and working for low wages for decades without recognition. now it's right in the white house and they should be on tv. they should be interviewed. women, men, others that are really smart about sexual assault, harassment and abuse and then you turn on the tvis ad you have talking heads that barely know anything about the issue and they are considered experts? give me a break. one thing we need to do about this moment is to take advantage of this cultural spotlight and

fishing media to cover these issues more deeply and bringing the people that know what they're talking about. >> as the national organizer of the women's march i know i thing or two about inspiring an organization, so tell us, how do we inspire and organize around this topic? had to make it be lasting and meaningful? >> i think that how we organize around things-- you usually organize-- sorry, organize around things and there's a crisis, so we were able to in the women's march two organize around what many felt was a crisis in our country and right now, we are experiencing a crisis of leadership and i think through popular conversation, popular television, popular music, popular movies is how we get the message out there, but i am one that always feels that organizing anything you do has to start at the local level first and it has to be a

conversation that starts in the home, a conversation in the community, a conversation that's regional and has to be national and international, so i think when you have people who are experiencing these horrible atrocities to their person, you don't want to exploit them. you want to give them a you also want people to feel like they can relate to a person is going throughop, so to organize around this topics , we need music-- violence to women is dead. we need people to stop words that are negative like the b wordrd and call you women words that are unfavorable and i don't like to repeat those things, but we all know what i'm talking about and we also need to make sure leadership like you said is vital to this conversation that leadership is suggesting anybody positive kind of projective--

projecting a body positive conversation that we all understand that violence of any kind is unacceptable, so in spite-- until we can someone like a very popular person with a princess diana for example, if princess diana had experienced sexual violence the whole world would be outraged, so we usually organize around crisis, but we have to be smarter than that and be able to organize it in our community first. >> jessica, i'm going to give you one last comment and then we have a couple minutes to take questions from the audience, so be thinking. >> i want to echo this like yesa and also what jackson said it's not the talking heads on tv that we need to upliftt. chain-- change happens when we

listen to survivors. >> i completely agree. developing more survivor advocates and leadership opportunity and wet-- recognizing theirrs opportuniti. are there questions we have from the audience during the last few minutes of this panel? yes? >> hello, my name is avery and i'm a senior at george washington university and my question is how do we ensure the actual quality and content in this educational material is good cause of contract these things and i'm gone through training and i haven't been conference of our effective and i spoken to men who after do not feel like they've learned a lot from it so how do we sure-- enter the content is quality? >> it's a work in progress.

some of us are leading and talking about how we can use our expertise and decades of experience, but what we know works with men y and young men d try to figure out how to translate that into broader policy around the country because i do think there is very variable education going on, a lot of non- education going on. most high schools have zero on these matters and the ones that do are mostly inadequate to be blunt, so we have a long way to go, but i think part of the way to ensure the quality is to get the right people in the-- room. get the people in the room making policy decisions as well as following through and how do you evaluate effectiveness of a prevention program. how you evaluate what you're preventing if you're preventing it, so some of this long-term and sort of gender norm change and how do you measure that. one thing, when i was in high

school i never met an oblique a person.er i had met many people, but i had never met an openly gay person. what i'm saying is change happens. there's an organized movement, lg bt movement that's been transformative and if you look at the demographics be younger population of the us for example is heavily supportive up a full spectrum of lg bt writes in a way that is distinct from the older demographics population and that's because of the change that has happened. change doesn't happen possibly his their movement and engagement and if we do that then we will see the change and open measure it, but it's all political. everything gets measured because people want to bucket funded and have to prove your efficacy and that's all political because how you define your success matters in terms of whether you get funded and it's difficult to

measure social change if you're having an an effect speed you operate 19 states in doing this very thing. he also witnesses is where kerry's research is andrtant and michael lindon jackson, when you say comprehensive, if we could make a half-day, a three-day, an hour-long workshop comprehensive enough to make it so that behaviors and emotions connected to what this work requires of us for a lifetime we probably would focus on world peace and everyone would have-- when we talk about comprehensive, men can stop rape right now, we are tagamet people's lives who are in crisis and then by the time they start killing-- the vetting

of the content of the curriculum depending on what we are trying to accomplish goes back to what i said earlier in terms of mandating how we teach this. by the time you get to george washington and one of our club members also alum of gw is here now working in the marketing world, by the time you step on that campus, you should be entering your 13th year of training around this issue. that's what comprehensive looks like , so it's a challenge for us to figure out how to be strategic as we can with the resources available to really promote what conference of intervention, training requires of us. >> the one thing we know for sure is that it's easier to raise a nonviolent boy that it is to change a violent man, so i'm so excited to be able to turn this panel over to the next panel. first, let me think our amazing panelists. [applause].

our next panel is actually going to take a closer look at how to work with young men and women on these issues focusing on the campuses, but 13th year of training. happy to introduce the next moderator, haley swenson, public fellow and editor of the better life lab slate channel. thank you so much for being here, haleyy, and thank you to our panelists. [applause]. >> thank you for your patience. it will just be a minute.

we are grateful for this opportunity to sit here with some amazing activists and scholars today. we are really focusing on the way in which sexual assault for years has been said considered a campus issue and when we hear about violence against women it's with a shocking statistic of one in four to one in five women will be raped before she graduates on a college campus and i think the #metoo moment has showed us it doesn't end at graduation, that sexual violence and sexual harassment follows people into their career-- career after college, so the

purpose of this panel is to think holistically and just as the last panel finished off, think about what kind of groundwork we lay in college that can be transferred from beyond. am going to start by introducing michael, a foremost expert on masculinity and author of many books about men and masculinity. michael has a study this issue in many different parts ofrk the lifespan, but i'm interested to about what it is when men enter their careers they need to have already learned to beat theks-- be peope who promote gender efficacy in the workforceli. >> thank you for inviting me. i'm thrilled to participate and basically want to sate of the last panel what they said, i mean, that's really-- i have a couple things i want to amplify from what i have heard, so the first thing i heard was that this is not necessarily normative.

i think getting inside the idea .asculinity is important what i hear in the workplace and here on college campuses from a large number of men now in the me to moment is we don't know what to say. we don't-- we are walking on egg shells. we don't want to be jerksks. that's good news. most men don't want to be jerks. most men don't do this. our role in some respect is to provide support for those who don't do it so they can intervene and challenge those who do. most men don't want to be jerks, but they don't know how not to be jerks because of what they have learned from other men, so i want to say two things about this. first i want to echo something said earlier that we don't teach college of a once. i'm university -based and i also do a lot of work outside universities and in universities we are constantly bemoaning the fact that the american public school system has ill-prepared

students for for college level work h, so we have remedial math programs, remedial writing programs in the things we assumed once upon a time they would've got in high schoolou, t they don't so we are sove sorry about that, we will do something about it so everyone has to take a writing course, these entry-level courses that should've been done in high school, so why don't we transfer that to match-- sex education? because most students across the country have virtually note sex education if they do its abstinence -based which is even worse than note sex education that seems to me and set up sitting on a college campus , we should say everyone is required to sex education in their college years. not just orientation or just an hour during orientation. when your brand new line a campus and all you want it to his make friends, get drunk and get laid, but rather all through

your years in college, so i think mandatory conference of sex education college should be one thing we can do. the second thing i want to say about universities and echo something jackson said earlier is these are institutional arrangements and these impulses come from the top-down. we talk about the military that way or politics and it's through corporations when ceos and executive say this is important, i want this workplace to be so safe that everyone can completely show up and be really productive, but we know that more gender equal workplaces are more productive and more profitable, so i'm thinking about this sort of institutionally. here's something that happens on .ollege campuses this is an institutional think

so i keep thinking like this is that i'm people. this is on as. did juno but according to nationalcc rules-- nationally recognized greek letter sororities are prohibited from serving alcohol at parties? according to the fraternity council, greek fraternities are permitted to serve alcohol at partiess subject to local alcohl regulations, of course. who has the parties? this is a structural thing. i keep thinking-- i don't know, it's an experiment. i have this experiment idea. want one campus to come forward and save for the next two years, only for sororities can serve alcohol at parties and the fraternities are prohibited. do you think sexual assault would go down? i don't know. let's find out. what might happen if instead of guys standing at the doordo sayg

is he hot enough, does he dance the way we want, does he drink the way we want, we willl let hr in some are you a baby enough to come in? no, we would have women at the door saying are you gentlemen enough to commend. i know some guys would sneak in, but even if she does get drunk and she's barely standing up, she just goes upstairs, her bedroom. i'm a social scientist and i could it's worth a try. this is an institutional arrangement. this is on as. we let this happen in enabling students for it. >> thank you for that. what a way to start out. [laughter] >> i have nothing to say. [laughter] >> i hope you have something to say because my next question is for andy clark and he has co-authored a book "we believe you" featuring stories of survivors. i wondered if you could talk about how the sudden surge of

stories about workplace abuses and sexual violence in workplace has affected what you doing campusesnt in the sense of the movement on campus. >> thank you for having me and for hosting this lovely panel discussion. i think the person to recognize is that this-- we haven't talked about this for centuries, quite literally centuries. i also want to say that there are people in this room and on this stage with me who have been doing this work since before i was even born and so it's really because of you that we are able to have this conversation, but we also have all of yougr young in this time up and i think it's important to have this space. to start out with, this is not new it's just maybe fallen on deaf ears and i think it's important to recognize the way we have been having a lot of these conversations has been sideloador, workplace, college campus, k-12, but they are all

interconnected and we can't talk about sexual violence on college campuses without talking about the military, without talking about the catholic churchki ande can talk about sexual violence without talking about racism and homophobia, so that is another thing i want to touch on later, but to echo what you say on the previous panel and to answer your question, yes, we absolutely have to start earlier it's the first time we are talking about sexual assault is at college and--at orientation it's way too late. so to tie those strings together , my sister is a kindergarten teacher and she hears on the playground he hits you because he likes you, he's chasing you because he thinks you're cute, it's just a schoolyard crush. fast-forward a little bit to middle school. i want a researcher to tell me how many hours of the girls education are lost every single year because they are taken out

of their chemistry class or alger class, english class because their skirts are two such short. their collarbones are showingag and then we give a message to our young men that they are suddenly not responsible enough to control their behavior. what message does that send their kids or our kids? we know sexual assault happens much earlier than college, so whether this is elementary school, high school, college, someone reports abuse in the questionabs is why did you go e with them. what were you wearing? flashback to that high school classroomou where you were remod from your educational setting because you were told your collarbones were too distracting , so this is interconnected and i really want to tie that together from the first panel to say if we start at the college level not to excuse the responsibility of colleges to teach our studentsu, it's too late to.d so, i wanted to say that and--

what else? >> has the enthusiasm of this moment just, i mean, even started off with a #metoo with the millions of people sharing and still-- many of whom had never been a part of any activism on this issue at alll, has invigorated the campus movement? >> i think it's really important to recognize that there are many different ways to be a survivor and that there is notot one rigt way and while the meeting will-- hot tag me to movement and i say that in quotes because it was started in the '90s and before that, no one should have to publicly stand on a stage until their story to be believed and supportedd and if someone wants to share their story, absolutely. if they don't want to, their story is no less valid, so i think yes while if you give

people a safe space to share their stories many people will, but we can't to judge people for not because they might not feel safe doing so. i also think it's important to recognize who's a stories are elevated work of the media to be quite honest like stories of people who look like me and we need to start changing that narrative especially when we know that native women, women of color, black women, lg bt communities experience higher rates of violence and are often a raise from the conversation, so while this effort is getting so much traffic and i'm grateful for that i think it's important we take a critical look at the media and ho' different folks narratives are told which is one of the reasons we wrote "we believe you" to make sure folks could tell their stories in their own words.

>> thank you. , to bring our third panelist in don mcpherson is an all-american quarterback from syracuse. >> was. >> was, what-- runner-up for the heisman part trophy and a decade-long activist who is spent on time talking to college students specifically about these questions and i'm curious about the way in which colleges have been a place-- they could most of their attention for being breeding grounds for toxic masculinity, but other ways in which colleges have been a place for transformation. >> i think the last thing you said is significant that colleges are place for transformation and everything that goes back to the algebra analysis. colleges are pleasant transformation when you talk about any kind of academic discipline or excellence or pursuit of acceptance and that's where the shift has to change on

college campuses and i think it's something that's important and i can go back to what michael said.. we had dinner last night i listened to it they said and i was 29 years old and i tell the story often when i met jackson. 29 years old and a new what it meant people i could be an american play football and behave new york or because i'm a new yorker. i was 29 years old and i knew what it meant to be the youngest of five children and i knew all the things that shaped my identity except masculinity and i was a off of mail as a football player and considered this iconic masculinity and i had no idea what it meant so to have this conversation and having transformative conversations we have to get to the point where we talk to men in different ways and this is

the other side of this, we on the outside of the movemental typically talk about this and there is the one thing we do with activism, which is pushing g e issue, pushing the facts, pushing the specifics, being more inclusive in this education that needs to happen. i always say we don't raise voice not to be women so i was raised in the ideology. i was raised not to be a woman in terms of masculinity s so whn i met jackson i had to switch to be very proactive in how i understood masculinity and i had to reconstruct some me different lessons i learned and rehabilitate some meetings i learned about what it meant to be a man and that took been immersed with jackson. if you listen to jackson and you hear i used to sit together like we did last night and listen to manually grapple with how the culture expects of us and been and how do we internalize that

and how we make that work in d r lives and that to me is the place wherein i feel like if weo the work of higher education than we need to approach this , not necessarily in the way we approach activists, but the way we approach it as educators and in education we don't do prevention work in higher ed. we do excellence work. we do competency work, so very often people look at sports and to elevate sports and you sports as a platform. the problem is we miss the reality of the sports analogy and what that can do. sports, we prepare to make good decisions. it's not what you see on game day or in the olympics, you see athletes compete in the olympics this week who have been preparing for years for 90 seconds, so when we talk about this is whyvi we mentioned by standing behavior and the gender

analysis and crate a bouncer program is not like at the everyday conversations happening over and over and over that lead to what happens in 90 seconds, so that's where the education needs to happen and we need to understand men have come to this conversation with really no understanding of masculinity. it's one of the reasons why gender equality falls on deaf ears with man's because we don't realize we have gender, so women say we want equity. we say equity of what because we don't have that thing you have because we are devoid of gender, gender ideology because we've never been raised-- >> for the men who are listening and it's not falling on deaf ears and maybe men in this audience or watching our lifestream or men we may encounter after we later todaye, what is one concrete thing you would advise men who are serious about thinking of themselves of having a gender and being invested in gender activity, what should they do ask who

wants to start cracks. >> first of all, i just want to say the general context, i think -- i went to echo something it's really a moment of where for the first time when women are speaking they are being believed t and i think this tooa long time and i keep thinking that the person who started this is anita hilll and after what happened to her women went quiet , but they have been talking to each other all of this time and the know-how to believe each other in the know-how to talk about this, so this is a moment where women are being believed. even mitch mcconnell said he believes the women. i mean, women are being believed , so this is a moment of opportunity for us. it's not inevitable that this will continue to become the water shed moment it has the potential to. i think part of the answer to whether that happens or not is how we engage with men. one other thing is to say i want to tell you that i'm an activist

in an academic, so i'm very optimistic. as nap-- acted as i'm optimistic because i believe change is possible and as a professor i believe that if my students engage, there lies will be better. that's optimism. so, bear with me. i think it's really important-- there was a survey-- what-- opportunity to menace to reaping past behavior, to rethink what they have learned, what they have been taught, how they have behaved and begin to atonene for some of that and we theorize some of that. the economist published a survey in november, that shows that ask men and workplaces, to age cohorts of men 18 to make 30 and over 60 amassed questions about workplace interaction and

workplace behaviorof. let's be clear, masturbating in front of someone has always been wrong, but they as this sort of low level stuff, is it okay to call a woman honey or sweetheart is it okay to come up behind her give her a neck massage? is it okay to say you look beautiful today? about two thirds of the 18 to make 30 euros it's not okay and 80% of the 60 and over said it was. .oung people know this we have been doing this for a really long time and we have to follow them because those new norms are becoming more embedded in young people culture. here's one concrete thing, i think that this is a moment that men can do two things, the first is we have to listen to opera. we have to listen to women and stop talking to women and telling them about their oppression. we have to listen.

the second thing is if we start to listen to women we have to start talking to other men, so i had a very concrete workplace idea. everyone in this room is probably had this experience. you've been in a meeting where you are virtually the only woman for another women in the room and there's a lot of men in the room and someone says something sexist and everyone looks at you like here she goess. big eye roll like she's going to ronan nowli, so the women is put in the position of either feeling terrible and making everyone else you'll terrible or feeling terrible alone. she's going to feel bad. after the meeting one of the guys in the room half-hour later comes out to you and says i'm really sorry about what happened in that meeting and at that point you want to strangle him. you want to say where were you when i needed you, so here's what i think has to happen and i would say, i can't speak up by myself because they whirl

marginalized me and i will become it on a really warm will get the patronizing haley and michaelnd when they say sorry ad that kind of condescending way so here's what you have to do, look around the room, men, look around the room and see if there is someone else like you who's looking down at their shoes whose shuffling papers uncomfortably and say in a half-hour after the meeting you called to them and you say listen, i'm not down with what bob just a set over there, so next time we go to a meeting on going to say something, but as soon as i do you have to jump in and say i don't like it either because if two people-- if one person does it he's marginalized, but if two people do it we opened up a space and other guys can say don't like it either and it stops there, so we do two things, we have to support each other and challenging one another those

are the conversations that have to happen with men. very concrete because we've all been in the meeting. >> thank you. may be more brief. [laughter] >> sorry. .'m a college professor they pay me to speak in an hour 20 minutes psalms. >> thank you. >> float. vote, seriously run for office, show up and vote and i will be brief. i want everyone to take away that there's something you could do on an individual level and everyone's activism doesn't have to look the same. i give this example often when trying to convince legislators we should talk about concerns and preschool and elementary school. anecdotally there is a scientific research to back this up, but young boys will more

often than not pet this dog without asking permission and parents will not do anything. young girls are more likely to ask permission, hey, i have a dog where does your dog like to be petted and if they don't parents will punish them, so thinking about consent and permission in everyday ways is really important and whether you are a doctor, teacher, student, sister, friend, parent, ally there is something you can docht so my challenge would be not only to voteay, but wiki everydy life whether you were watching the super bowl last saturday there was a sexist commercial and you didn't say anything or who you have lunch with after this. so, think about those things you can do in your everyday life and finally it should not be on incumbent on survivors to end sexual violence and rape culturs

and i know having allies is important but i will end on the note that if your survivor of sexual violence that i believe you and to know what happened was not your fault whether you are live streamingg or in this room and yet, i believe you are not alone. >> i think that they that men should understand and it's not just about fathers, but many general is that it's not a matter of talking to our daughters. its matter talking to our sons and being courageous and talking to our sons so they are better men than we are. there's a commercial that's a really pathetic commercial of a father and son in a car that breaks down and they called out someone come fix the car and the father says this is a good opportunity to have this up conversation, whatever difficult conversation and all of a sudden the assistance comes any sappy.

men are punks when it comes to this. >> right. [laughter] >> if being a man is being courageous. shut the blank back up and listen. be engaged in the conversation. i'm tired of this notion of this masculinity and the same time we say i'm going to be accused of saying something wrong. if you say something wrong, own it and it can have a conversation and be buried in the conversation. be brave enough to be wrong. that's the challenge. i don't like-- this is a challenge to men. enough with this already. say the wrong thing. have the conversation. be engaged.

if you don't and you are silent you are hurting your son because right now-- right now women are saying. [inaudible] if we as men don't say we need to wake up and help our sons and this is also the same philosophy about higher education. if i'm a college president where mymy minimized the two should kw in the workplace or do i want toti be an institution where we like our frat boys because they donate well to the institution or do i want my men leaving this institution knowing how to be in the workplace and relationships. that's what we should strive for so if i'm a dad t, do i want my son to be the guy that's going on than olympic grade swimmer at

stanford, but i raped an unconscious woman behind a dumpster, where is the dissidents in our culture that we don't see that as an absolute failure of raising our sons to be better people? we should be ashamed that those men are living in the same decade we are because we haven't given them the tools to be better people, so i sit amend this is on us to raise the next generation of menpp to be better than we are. [applause]. >> thank you. [applause]. >> concrete take away so i will paraphrase. be quiet. listen. be engaged and be brave. actually step up and face these things head-on. the worst thing that happens seems to be someone is mad at something you said in the stakes are so much higher for survivors

thank you so much to our panel and at this point i'm going to turn things over to gary who you have not already. do we have time for questions? let's take a question. >> speaking of technology. >> this question comes from someone following along on facebook. the question is, what does the panel think of the #mentor her campaign? it seems very patriarchal and sends the wrong message that women need helpan. can we get this this leaders to patronizing women and stop sending them the wrong message to organizations? >> michael? >> michael? >> i think the context is important. i share the same kind of discomfort with of the #with the idea that it seems to be a kind

of rescuing or condescending idea, but in the corporate world i work a lot of companies. mentorship programs, sponsorship are vital for people to be able to navigate theco corporate, you know their rising corporation. we know that mentorship programs and especially sponsorship programs-- mentoring programs are basically sort of a cartographer, you sort of take someone under your wing and help them map the company and then you're kind of a civil engineer. you help them build a bridge from one part of theerer-- overs obstacle or something and then you are cheerleader saying you go it seems to me, i've worked in a lot of mentoring program in her ashley and they tend to be very successful in the women like them. in the corporate-- and they are successful and effective, so in the corporate world, that idea of mandatory has a somewhat

different-- it has different connotation for us and research is quite persuasive as well. on the other hand, i have the same reaction when i heard it which is this is one of those moments where it sounds like men rescuing damsels in distress like we will help you, we will take it from here and that results in something i like to call premature self-congratulation for the men, so i'm not thrilled about it, so i'm really-- i go both ways on. >> do we have time for one more? questions?

get a microphone for you here. >> am coming from the international organization for migration and i have a question in regards to this that he spoke of some gray areas of sexual harassment and where you noted that he saw on the study that men over the age of 60 were more likely to not be so aware that their actions were an appropriate. how do we hold people that are currently in their positions at the top, how do we hold them accountable? right now it's a lot of he said, she said, how do you prosecute that a lot of the time? for example from things i've heard, those people are maybe placed on administrative leave or they are moved to somewhere else. that's how it's dealt with, so how do we change that? >> not to simply wait for the

next way the people to rise to that. of this is the key question right now, i think. a lot of these accusations that have been levied against some of the people have been 30 or 40 years old and i think we have to acknowledge that the rules have changed. my dad worked in the workplace that looked like dog drapers and by that, i mean, all of the men all of their offices with the windows in the women, the of pool were gathered in the center and sexual access to them was considered a perk of the job. that was normal. it's not normal anymore.. so, the norms have changed and it is important to say we then are being invited to read your rise our past behavior, the stuff we learned in locker rooms is now not acceptable. we have to acknowledge that. so, i kind of think in one respect with him to hold people accountable for past behavior.

on the other hand, i also think we have to acknowledge that we are playing by different rules so it's important maybe something in the neighborhood of truth and reconciliation idea where if we say i did this, i was taught to do this, i behaved in this way because i thought that was normal and so if i do that, what do i get in return for that? the ideas some kind of reconciliation i get to come back into the universe of this course. well, he did that so you're now exiled, so we have to find a way to both acknowledge what we did and also find ways to come back and be accountable for it in moving forward. inadequate answer? >> very short? >> very short. number one, we need to talk about accountability like we are

all pretty awareaw. we are very aware of what's happening and we need accountability and back and look like legislation, but it also needs to be cultural shifts and change. they need to happen together. yeah, i just think accountability is huge just because someone grew up 60 years ago if i be an explanation, but it's not an excusee. >> thank you so much of my fantastic panelists. on going to bring up gary barker for some final thoughts. [applause]. >> just a quick couple of final reflections and first 20 think vital voices for hosting us. thank youpa. really hard to follow up with any kind of overarching conclusions because i think that lots of points right to what we

need to. number one, was giving talks and few have seen the images if you haven't been there if that 2500 white entitled men and a small percentage number of women and getting some talks on this topic , a lot of nervous men who i think were actually thrilled when trump came in because they had a reason not to talk about sexual harassment. the main question they kept coming up withmf is is is this going too far now i suddenly feel their incredible and i said embrace that moment because this is what women have felt like for centuries. [applause]. that didn't get me many friends and i probably won't get invited back, but i did say this is the moment of change in that moment where you don't know where you're going we can do something men don't do often, which is ask for direction. then they just ran off to the coffee bar, but i do think that's one of the things we have to talk about is to say then,

ask for directions. you don't know if this is then ask. that is part of what we have to stayot clearly, stop and ask. the other party want to bring up and i think while we are focused on this #metoo movement and harassment and remember this sexual harassment is not the disease. it's a symptom of this thing called patriarch gender equality and we like to pretend we have overcome it. i think we also have to put it in that framework. the solution is not a one off, not that 45 minute powerpoint that hr departments are doing. it's the whole sweep the policies we need from parental leave to equal pay. we know that paul sweep of things we need to achieve full equality. let's remember this is a bigger picture and 30 you heard me make the joke about making facts

grading at the beginning. we do have evidence of things that workbe and we have a thing called the center for disease control has not been put out of business, but this administration is trying to. there is data around conference of sexuality education and sexual violence prevention that the cdc has developed over years there's more needed, but they cannot do it if they are being gutted and we are paying attention to lots of other stuff so i think that's one of the casualties in this administration that we need to pay attention to and before the final point is that while men should be uncomfortable and that is okay and live with that moment, i think, we could also add a couple of drops of sugar or honey to the water at the end of this which is to say i think this moment also has a potential to be the greatest revolution in our lives as men, which and i think several of you alluded to it i think done ewan particular, we get to be better men.

we get to have the connections we want and acknowledge we don't know everything that we haven't done all of those brave things we said we did and we get to be kind of more connected, rounded, happier human beings which is a bad thing for us or the planet, so part of this is to figure out what men in the door say we have men in-- skin in this game. i love your posters here and i will stand down. remember where this conversation started, not that we are going to take it over and it's about asis, but to kind of living that moment and say our life can get better this #metoo moment meant and i learned that from these gentlemen and also the women whose pictures here but us to say a gender exists and is causg harm and we as men-- some of us are conversing afterwards because we want to say we didn't invent this work yesterday. there are things we can do in a more unified way. thanks for offering this. [applause].

.. >> on our "after words" program, black lives matter cofounder patrice khan colors discusses her life, activism and the gunnings of the black -- beginnings of the black lives matter movement. also this weekend you'll see a recent book party for james o'keefe, project veritas author and author of my fright for truth in -- my fight for truth in the the era of fake news. and laura