>> reagan rising in the decisive years and also you've written about world war ii and several other books on ronald reagan. >> book tv on c-span twos coverage continues with the panel on politics. joshua greene and national book award finalist nancy mclean, participate. >> this is the tenth annual tucson festival books. we wish to thank the resource corporation for sponsoring the session. this will last one hour including questions and answers. following the session panelists

will be participating in the c-span event and then he will go to the signing area. the other members will proceed to assign intent and will be autographing books on the mall. books are available for purchase in any book you buy at the festival supports or literacy efforts. because you're enjoying the festival we hope your member of the friends of the festival program or sponsor. out of respect for your audience members please silence your cell phone. now i will introduce the authors. on my far left joshua greene is a bloomberg businessweek national correspondent former

editor at the atlantic. he lives in washington, d.c. the book he recently put out is called devil's bargain. steve bannon, donald trump and the storming of the presidency. a great cover as mentioned yesterday. [applause] david johnston is a long time investigative journalists who worked all over the country. his most recent newspaper has been the new york times and he is the editor-in-chief of the website called d.c. report.org. he's had the good fortune of covering donald trump when he was just a casino guy in atlantic city. if you want to take a look at the files related to trump in a certain joke trafficker i'm sure david johnston would be happy to share that with you.

[applause] and nancy mclean is a professor of history and public policy at duke. her book in the title of the session was a finalist for the national book award in the l.a. times book of the year last year. [applause] we should introduce myself. i'm to work for there is on a daily star mom columnist there. so, let's get into this so can have as much as possible. the making of donald trump 2016 and it's even worse than you think, great title.

so i want to start with nancy, her book talks about the growth of the libertarian movement that you know best by the koch brothers pushing of it but she goes back into the history of it and how a man named james buchanan started this movement at the university of virginia in the 50s. one thing i was curious about his in what way the trump presidency embodies the libertarian movement that controls the state of arizona and how it departs from this. >> i would not say that buchanan started the movement but what he did in brown versus board of education was set out to develop

a new school of economy of philosophy that would counter the new deal and the emerging civil rights movement. he would do so by taking a and believing elected officials serve the common good and acted in good faith trying to do right by the people. so he managed to get a nobel prize but since much he started the libertarian movement but he supplied the ideas that had made charles coke money so effective. he said to people we have got more accomplished in the last five years than i have tried in last 50 years. my book argues his weaponization of the set has enabled that success and i believe we would not have donald trump and the white house had it not been for

the steady application of this strategy. i'm happy to come back and go into that. >> we will want you to elaborate on that. for joshua greene, one of the weird things about the trump presidency is that he came to pyro channeling bannon's advice and intuition on populism. how does that then fit with the libertarianism that helped him get into office? >> this is the fascinating thing about trump, he was elected based on a set of ideas in opposition to the ideas and political philosophy nancy describes that buchanan originated her weapon nice trump is a bannon style populist who differentiated himself in the

other republicans all of whom are accolades a buchanan whether they know it. trump stood apart and set i'm going to support things like middle-class workers i'm not going to cut government benefits, he explicitly said he would not cut programs like social security, medicare and medicaid. he went a step further and ridiculed his opponents for being puppets of the koch brothers and people who supported them. there was a real interest there seem to be emerging this third way populist republicanism that filter to the tea party and had taken over a large chunk of the republican congress you had this bizarre nominee who was getting far on these.

it spoke to the weakness of the republican orthodox, the ideas like tax cuts for the wealthy in a foreign policy that work for reagan but 35 years later had lost the appeal to a downscale white elderly and role populist space. but when trump got elected that was in his policy. there are inheritors of the idea that nancy describes and has become almost -- lake willing to sign legislation in direct opposition to what he promised to do on the campaign trail. >> david you know about trump's

long career before he became a politician. as you have seen him govern his that a very hands-on but how does his personality and career predict what you have seen in the last year? >> donald ran for office on a platform that i alone can save you and that should resonate with people. i wrote books about how the bottom 90% of americans are having this. in the year 2012 the bottom 90% of americans had a smaller income than in 1967.

people have thus pensions healthcare has gone down it was easy to appeal to people even at the 90th percentile a combined with this donald is a master sales men. he doesn't know anything but he knows intuitively how to appeal to people. aiding him was these public choice and what happened after watergate. what happened after watergate were campaign-finance laws that backfired. the idea was to clean up politics get rid of cash. i remember when ike covered the legislature one state senator talks about how he would give speeches and people would stuff money in his pocket. there is no accountability for this.

along comes the abuse of the 5o1c for organizations created for very specific purpose. in the mix comes well-funded groups who lied about what it was about. it's widely believed the irs targeted conservative groups. you don't have to have the irs permission to be a c-4. the guy who decided they needed to be on the lookout for peoples whose applications indicated they would be partisan and illegal targeted right and left groups he basically said this thing will fall down or be a fire trap and we will not approve it but everybody thinks otherwise because the initial report came from darrell and

wants the beast as i sometimes called the news media it's really hard to break that narrative. donald trump was masterful and taken advantage of this buchanan's theories, and especially the campaign-finance laws that concentrated. >> you are hinting at specifics that you have seen the trump way of governing can you elaborate? >> i think our media has done us a disservice where they think the koch story was a story until 2015 and after that it became donald trump all the time. they're not helping us put the stories together.

some journalists are good pointing out trump is surrounded by people who have come to the koch donor network. betsy devos, a personal attorney, i could go on. but he's surrounded by those folks. i moving the agenda through quickly. i think of him as the distractor in chief. while he distracts us this whole koch agendas movie through federal departments and the judiciary in states controlled by this radicalized party. i don't want to set my panelists with it but to take a timeout and stop paying attention to them for a week at least your mental health will improve, but you also noticed if you look to

the places you care whether the pa or department of labor justice there's so much going on that were not paying attention to his we been distracted. i do wish our media new their history. my first book -- he averted the original populist categories to call the people parasites and call the wealthiest citizens among us and corporations of prey and through those ideas reshape the right and political landscape. you can have a populist language with a libertarian economics. were seeing this more and more in europe. were seeing a resurgence of

fascist in austria and germany and they are not disconnected it's a bit of a family feud but these are people with the same vision and long-term strategy and serious tactical dispute. but they're coming from the same family tree. >> one thing that has struck me, one of the difficulties that purveyors of hard white libertarian ideas have as their policies when looked at are not very popular with the public. the point nancy makes in her book. what trump has done was style himself as a rhetorical populist wall allowing this to filter through two different agencies any see it and legislation that congress has passed. he is hit upon a model of salesmanship that allows ideas

to move forward when you look back to the campaign the candidates that stood for these ideas openly were not the ones that succeeded. >> nancy is right, we focus too much on the crazy twitters and tweets, that's why my friends and i started d.c..org. it's free and we don't show mailing list. we cover what congress in america do not what politicians say. this is the real deficit there's a superb story in the new york times about worker safety issue. there's another issue we wrote about were to workers -- and i'm

wondering why it's not front page news everywhere. donald is the master of distraction. when something arises that gets in his way and his brilliant at this. and he's been doing it his whole life and he's no richard nader of lots of fake news. >> on populism as a historian what is that populist style being used to do? invoking the people and trashing the elites. you get someone like bernie standers but it's very clear that he's trying to get healthcare and i'm not campaigning for him but i'm just saying in one case you see what population populism is doing and donald's cases use to have divisions between us to make white people angry and make them feel like they've had things taken from them. and he's using that to discredit

knowledge and education. in the classic cases climate science. this whole koch political project because it's in the fossil fuel industry they are deadly against any government action to address what's happening to the planet. they're discrediting client sima scientist as well as trying to promote smog about the reality of what's happening to our planet. trump is part of that. if you look at his cpa what scott pruitt has done it's to undermine what people want which is clean air and water so his populism is being used toward a different end. i don't think it's adequate for journalists to say populism without saying what it's been used to do.

[applause] 's are those the only priorities in? these koch style priorities were are there some benin -type parties? i think of illegal immigration but steel tariffs are recent phenomenon. >> i think of trump style populism is having two components. the racial anti- immigrant and anti- muslim component. there's no question that even after bannon left that trump is willing to move forward on that. he's doing it. the other side i look at be an economic populism. early in the first year there really was not much action taken

to promote the kind of working-class reform the people like bannon and trump had touted. it's not because there wasn't a debate inside the administration. bannon have proposed increasing taxes on high-end earners. he had flirted with endorsing janet yellen and having breitbart news i think that would be interesting the problem is that he really didn't have an effect that i see then you have an amalgamation of impulsive populist decisions on things

like the muslim travel ban and the tariffs which may now be unwound. coupled to the right wing libertarian ideas that established leaders have spent their careers pushing. >> so does this popular rhetoric and related rhetoric sally keeps his presidency sustain i do think that's a part of what keeps his supporters loyal to him. trump has a visceral understanding of who his voters are, what his spaces and what kinds of issues they react to. certainly they react to attack against illegal immigrants.

i don't think trump get selected if not for that. i don't think you necessarily need to deliver clear policies including the ones you campaigned on. instead you could look at attacking nfl football players who kneel as result the police retaliate kick up his cultural battles that are amplified by right wing talk radio. when we write about trump we tend to do it from the standpoint of comparing his favorability numbers and trump doesn't really do that while. on the other hand he has managed to maintain somewhere between 38 and 44% of the population viewing him favorably. not so much because he's doing something to deliver for them but because he has managed to keep them loyal to him by pushing things like laws to

demonize illegal immigrants, by attacking companies or post tariffs and by sparking cultural battles like on the nfl and things like that. his new swan is trying to move forward and he understands that in some sense this connects with his base voters. they will stick with them he would have he doesn't deliver what he promised. >> if we bring in the religious right and the white evangelicals who supported president trump apply very different metrics to his character and behavior then president obama's. he's been given a free pass by

the leaders of the white evangelical cause. it is something they value in terms of neil gorsuch and against women and homosexuals i think a lot of what's happening here to is that there's a lot of discomfort in our country. they worry about their children and then there caught and appearance anxiety about their children's futures are profound source of power for demagogy's. saw political leaders who took example of that. they wanted to make sure that

the in evangelicals come out for the rest of the agenda. these policies are not popular so in my state relying a prejudice to get people from the polls whether it's against gay people the point about the devoted base you talk about this unraveling in your last chapter and i wonder if it will unravel as long as it has this debate voted base and continues to show power in terms of getting things appointed. >> as josh mentioned earlier trump is not an office doing what he said he would do on the campaign trail. donald trump may well serve two

terms. i may not live long enough to see it but after 229 years we may see the end of america as we know it because of these ideas and what's happening. we had people who call themselves christians who are supporting a man who has said repeatedly that those who follow the teachings of jesus christ are schmucks and idiots. if somebody just lights you or declined to do a favor because it would be unethical donald says they should be punched in the face 15 times. and what gives him pleasures destroying the lives of other people. yet, you see this of god wants me to be rich and those who

foment disdain at a minimum of the poor and anybody who has read the new testament knows that's anti- testament anti- christian. there are no underlying principles about what's going on. we've known for a long time that people vote with their pocketbooks. we know that people float and emotional responses. people have been living in economic tear for a long time. you can drive through big parts of this country anyone see economic activity going on. it is easy to exploit this to people. one of the underlying causes is

the campaign finance system which if we don't change it will be a government. another element. [applause] is to engage from politics. some said i want they're all corrupt. they're all terrible. i would like to live in america that followed the ideals of both founders of this country and framers were logic and reason and open debate especially supporting and protecting the debate from those people whose ideas you just hate to make sure they are heard. so what we're seeing. heavy in my book i say donald trump is not the disease, he's the symptoms.

the disease is americans are giving up democracy. to some extent we seen some revival. when barack obama was elected it woke up some tea party folks others a rich people's movement and this is been going on over 100 years. the election of trump has woken up both centrists and people on the left. whether that will translate into action is another issue. the cokes have a well-funded machine. >> there very strategic there good husbands of the assets that they are lucky enough to own. but their ideas will lose in an open free marketplace where there's competition for ideas. i cannot articulate what it is the democrats stand for.

>> what is it then that would bring about this. are you exaggerating when he say you might live to see that. what are the specifics of your concern? that money will force the collapse of the system? >> one thing that helped donald get elected is the disconnect between what's going on in washington the swamp in the lives of ordinary people. spot all these laws that were passed for every day the government reaches into your pockets in ways you don't see takes a penny here and in a cold there. if you could get a penny a day from every person in america you would have $1.1 billion. there's an industry that does that by regulation congress

ordered a study that says 2 cents a day. what's a billion dollars. why is washington disconnected from us? why don't we have universal healthcare why don't we have an education system design for the economy of today not the 19th century industrial economy. it's because of the disconnect caused by the political donor. that's what's happening. if we keep going down the road people will give up on democracy. your liberty is what you will lose. >> i agree with where david is going.

one thing my book talks about is the operational strategy to make this happen. i've seen these folks who are part of their team same again and again that they understand the majority will never agree with them. politicians who are accountable to the voters will not push through this radical agenda. >> but i think it's more than that buchanan urge those on his team and i know charles koch was listening well that if you don't like the outcome of politics over a long time and stop focusing on who rules and think about the rules and how you can change the rules to get different outcomes. that's what buchanan

contributed. some examples would be we sought start with a bang with scott walker in wisconsin and he didn't campaign saying he was gonna take way collective-bargaining rights he says something else but that the first thing he said was that we dropped the bomb. so he destroyed the unions or tried to and then from there and this is happening not only were measures to weekends the workers taking aim at teachers but voters this depression like we have not seen since the reconstruction of populist movement. and also the most sophisticated and radical gerrymander of our

history to make sure that the rent-controlled states there shooting their voters. they're grossly misrepresented the electorate that just a question of ideas but of fact that rules have been changed. look at wisconsin. nobody would've predicted it would of went for donald trump the tip because the units lost their power et cetera. we have to pay attention to this rule change of the ultimate one they're pushing for is the constitutional convention. we have never had a state convening convention but these guys while we been watching the distracting chief have lined up 28 states needed there's no controls on on their six

republican-controlled states that have not yet authorize the convention which gets us to 34. i believe the $1.5 trillion deficit the tax scam that deficit will be the reason they will use to convene to get the remaining six states sandel pass a balanced budget amendment until they realize social security would be undermined, anything you care about. this is radical rules change. >> can i have for a slightly different scenario. nasa don't want you to leave them but got harm of what you're hearing. there is one way to stop were seeing it in real life and real

time. to organize resistant vote out of office the people were applying these policies. [applause] one of the stories is that he would come up with these ideas was often the legislator that failed to approve them. enough people stood up and recognize that he was doing organized and defeated these measures i see that happening are ready and cover politics on a day-to-day level. i spent time last fall and the people i wrote about were generation of young democratic tech entrepreneurs from silicon valley for whom the election of donald trump was a pivotal moment.

they've come up with different apps and websites to organize people. because virginia had an off year election it became a testing ground for field organizing technology. i know how many of you know what happened but in the state house republicans headed to - 1 advantage and they were routed on election day. came down to a single vote. to me that signified or suggest what could happen if republicans continue along these lines another point i agree that gerrymandering has been a key to republicans extending power even where they don't have intellectual majority. the supreme court said you've gone too far based on the map it

looks like it would be something much fair. it is possible to stop the loss from going ahead. but would have to happen is for democrats to win back the house. [applause] will take audience questions so feel free to go to a microphone. we've been talking about the koch brothers that they were not real trump enthusiasts but the billionaires he ended up landing via steve bannon. if you could explain is that were his financial support is going to come from in the future?

>> i tell how bannon and trump came together and how they pulled off this incredible upset that nobody saw coming. big part is how they use money in organizations in much the same way buchanan did to come up with foundations and ideas they could deploy against democrats and hillary clinton. how many remember the book clinton cash. it was a book of opposition research thought up by bannon and funded and produced by a nonprofit organization that assemble lawyers and researchers in dark web data scientist put together all this damning information. they also funded breitbart news all of these things worked in

conjunction to help elevate and elect donald trump. another example of the power of money in organizations and how they can prove video. hillary clinton did win more votes but was interesting it's got trump elected but that partnership has fallen apart. bannon is now often europe going around with european fascist and helping in the elections over there. i think the force that the koch brothers has reasserted their control partly through pants and partly because trump doesn't have any interest in pushing any of his own maybe tariffs which the folks wouldn't agree with. shows powers billionaires can have organizing behind the

scenes to use these foundations and fortunes to bring about political outcomes that do not have majority support. >> you're talking about dark money and i wonder if you know what kind of facts would be needed for a case to go to the supreme court that could overturn citizens united? >> i don't think there's any political opportunity for that. through a series of decisions in the hobby lobby case what we have done is imbue corporations with increasing power. corporations are important vessels for creating wealth and organizing and encouraging risk-taking. the supreme court has literally held the corporation have

religious rights. >> have been concerned about education. my background is economics. in 2008 when we crashed one of the problems with finding solutions was by then economics had been discredited in economic universities. on this campus we have a koch funded freedom center. it's not part of economics but they're pushing it. the other thing is that they distributed a textbook to our schools. i haven't read it. it really scares me. . . economics they don't mention 1929 or 2008 you have

ratted -- you have read the textbook? because we don't want our young raised but one of the highlights they explained that they became extinct because they were not entrepreneurs, and i'm not making that up. we need the folks on the education part. >> i think that is incredibly important you've already experienced they have more charter schools and money going to charter schools and i understand at the same time, teachers are the worst paid in the country and have the third-highest i class-size. you have a big struggle on your hands but it's also something going on nationally in the states controlled by this radicalized republican party. they will talk about school reform and they are seekingd to

privatize the public m educatio. make no mistake about it, they want to undermine public education and individual savings accounts for your children and there is no public support now in universities, they've become a critical part of the strategy that connected with the chief political adviser. there is an amazing group of young people not quite like the ones in florida, but they've builtte a group called on coax y campus. i urge you to write it down and look them up and think about supporting them. these are brave young people georgearted out at mason. public university has been recognized.

students came togethe together l how academic integrity was being corrupted. they are brilliant researchers supply inc. the journalists organizing on many campuses including this one here and the more people they have the better they can do that work that we have to realize that this is at this moment undermining high your education as we know it to try to turn i it to their purpoe is to discredit the genuine educators and scientists and arrest them with the groups they felt like turning point usa and engorgengorge these centers andi understand that there is one of the news come out about this your tea party dominated state legislature and governor used the power over the whole state budget of arizona state university in order to use taxpayer dollars against the ten year line positions and a rival curriculum to the real

curriculum, so i urge everyone in this room to start paying attention to those issues, look at what's going on at the university of arizona and get information. they have a ton of good documentation and they are hopeful. [applause] i am concerned about the language we use here and the questioner used the word and you pick it up, discredit. nobody has discredited. they have suppressed them and it's important that we not feed ground that we shouldn't se butt because nancy is right about what's going on here. the system has become so corrupt that public school an a public e university of california and los angeles accepted a gift basket businesst school from a man banned from life from the securities markets and the one professor that stood up and said this is wrong, a market oriented

republican professor was basicallyli forced out. don't cede ground about things. suppressed is what is going on, suppression, nobody has appealed to the accounting identities were changed the basic underlying theory of economics, it is the promotion of a group of ideas that look elegant on paper and have nothing to do with human behavior. [applause] >> university of arizona i am a business emphasis did you might look at the athletic department. [laughter] >> iem a local, so i've submitted reports were tried to submit a report on the police not doing their job and violence in town and i was attacked by two immigrants because i looked to the university and brought a two-page thing to the mayor's office.

i wasn't even allowed in the mayor's office. i went to your office paper and asked to speak and they said a security guard gets to decide. you don't like that because it's against your paper. the question is the institutions that enable corruption, and we have federalism and you eluded to [inaudible] the question is the convention of states, that is keeping with federalism. the subtext might have been -- >> the question is is this convention of states thing an

indicationy that the federalism itself cannot take the extent of the difference that's going on? >> you mean across the country? >> i think i understand what he's been saying because i followed this thing being pushed by coat and alan and others and it's not something that comes naturally frome federalism, that's why we haven't done it before it even the conservative journalistsbe like berger and te samuel alito, not samuel alito, i'm sorry, antonin scalia said that that is a crazy idea to convene so it is and just critics on the left, its critics on the right. i know a lot of other people want to ask questions, let me refer you to the website of common cause that has done a lot of that this constitutional convention they have excellent information and got four states

to rescind their authorization but the problem is at this point there's no more states they could get to rescind. >> i would encourage the dc report to read our piece on federalism and how jeff sessions has stood on its head. >> in your book you talk about buchanan going down to chile and how he absolutely destroyed their economy down there. could that translate into what might have been here? and also, we need to expose alec. >> one of the things that got me interested in buchanan after i found this report that he dated 1959 in the footnote is i learned in passing from some comparative political scientists mentioned that buchanan's

virginia school have more impact under the pen o'shea dictatorship than the freedom of chicago school and there's been a ton written about the school and what he did not, i couldn't find anything in that snippet about to buchanan so i did the research and found out that yes indeed he had a lasting impact because he was brought in in 1982 advice on a document that became known as the constitution of liberty because they knew they would have to go back to the representative government that they wanted to walk in all the things they had achieved. there was no free press etc. and one of the things was social security reform and the language we are hearing now what they did is privatize the whole system, take people's pensions and put them with financial firms which behaved about as well as our financial firms so people lost their life savings into these firms have gouged people come cs a terrible system that has been nearly impossible to reverse

because of the constitution he advised on so i have a chapter on the chilean experience because i don't think it is a sidebar, i think as the slogan says that the past is prologue and people need to understand this history in order to understand what a at least the right would like to do and after buchanan got back from the early 1980s, the cato institute made the privatizatio privatization p agenda item and they'vee been using the energy of the tea party groups for an agenda that includes the social security and medicare privatization. so i believe that what they have is a deadly dogma that is obvious in the case of climate and it's happening in the planet to provide action on it but also in terms of the world they are able to bring in ideall i beliea historian and a citizen it will be unsustainable for the rest of us socially, economically,

environmentally. [applause] >> doesn't the threa >> doesn't the threat of a runaway convention serve as a check. he was opposed to that and called it the common because he feareded the idea of a runaway convention that is in other words maybe you go in wanting to have a balanced budget amendment and come up with a second amendment repealed or altered to. it's to convene the constitutional convention from being a runaway convention.

they have the liberty amendments getting rid of the 17th aamendment's. there's so much happening right now people are stressed and you have a million things you are thinking about that we are at a fundamental turning point in the society and what happens over the next few years will be absolutely decisive. it's time to pay attention and alert others that you know for the many different groups doing the good work folks have said.

i want to ask a little bit more about this push to repeal the amendment. you feel this is part and parcel about all the things you are talking about. there was a column in the star this very morning by one of the local conservative columnists saying he doesn't like if the legislature wants to but the abe political parties take the senate candidates, they want the legislator to pick instead of us. so, where, how do you see that and can you talk about that a little bit more? >> there is a well-funded drive and given to people that are promoting it, i won't be shocked if we do all sorts of things we require to own a gun and turn ourselves into a theocracy who say we haven't fully incorporated the amendment and therefore you choose to be a

theocracy. it's a very dangerous idea but it may be upon us right away. >> i have something else depressing to add. do you have any commentary on the role of sinclair broadcasting on with this? >> i can speak on this on the only journalist that has caused the broadcast and what sinclair does is worse than the telecast inttelecasting to the company tt went out of business. they made a deal that would give them more of a footprint a than fox. thist is a larger fundamental trend. one of the problems with t capitalism is the competitors fall off, donald trump against

those to fail in the city and the monopoly and in the competition we call it the antitrust then you would tend towards the monopoly or duopoly, oligopoly because two of the three firms can raise the price is high here and limit the marketplace more than a single firm. i would argue we should go back to that television stations and you can't own a newspaper in the same market, period. we need to promote robust competition, particularly in the news. >> there were some reports that have been coming in for a while but the last few days saying that sinclair broadcasting has taken over all of these local newspapers and is forcing the

local editorial boards to carry kind of a approach from the agenda and taking advantage of the fact that people must trust ttheir local reporters. when you know that it's happening and you have a sinclair publication make sure that you ask them about their coverage and policy that is quite frankly. >> we have time for one more question over on c-span land. you could stumble into a nuclear war. according to some calculations

to nuclear weapons that are around the. it will destroy a civilization. >> let me address that quickly. donald promised during the campaign but of course we would use nuclear weapons. he's looking for the opportunity to use them and he thinks it helps enhance his power and we should be very concerned about the fact the white house has said we will fulfill every campaign promise. >> i spent all of my career looking at patterns as a former software engineer and i'm looking at a pattern i'm concerned donald trump appears to be the very first non- politician. you d view as the panel c. dot starting of a pattern.

my wife wouldn't like me t wouly this, but i am nervous about a possible run by oprah winfrey and here's the reason why. if you read the news last week and she unloaded a 35% stake of weight watchers just before they announced they have headwind problems going against folks. so i'm afrai i am afraid of a ma stewart situation. i know for fact there are a number of prominent businessmen looking at running who wouldn't probably be doing so had he not gotten elected. so there is no problem that it has expanded the range of conceivable presidential candidates to include. they've changed politics in a way that wouldn't revert back to the days before he was president

of. it goes right to your question. >> let me also say i agree and we can't have people without a public commitment in their entire career no commitments to the common good. without that, thanks to these ideas that discredited the public service and government interests andse so forth, but i will say and i think we have all seen this and you are seeing it herees in arizona we have something in human affairs called unintendedom consequences they need to pay attention to the country to respect public service to care about the common good and i see that changing things but as a part of that everyone should say we don't want oprah winfrey we want people on our side who have no civic experience we want people who've proven themselves to care

about the public who know the issues and who are good at it to be running and they should be the candidates. [applause] >> don't forget to become a friend of the festival. it's a free event [inaudible] >> inaudible