it's critically important. thank you. [applause] the signing line will form down this aisle to my right and i'll invite you to join the aisle to my right. thank you. booktv is on twitter and facebook and we want to hear from you tweet us job twitter.com/booktv or post a comments on facebook.com/booktv.

welcome everyone. welcome good evening. my maim is meredith school of biz alum he been of the stern alumni counsel i accepted my mba in 2004. i'm thrilled to be here with you tonight for an incredibly exciting program. it's great to so many joining us for this talk and i would also like to thank those who are watching our via youtube. it's my pleasure to introduce melissa schilling author of the recent book remarkable story of the trait and label who change the world in conversations with justin fox, columnist @and

professor schilling joins in 2001 and currently herzog family professor of management. her primary area of innovation in strategy and high technology industry such as smartphone, video game and renewable energies she's particularly interested in platform die it signallic, network, creativity and break through innovation you won't find surprising base on title of her new book on moderator is justin fox columnist for bloomberg view writing about business he started there in january of 2015, after serving astorial tore, thank you both for being here this evening. quirky published by public affairs last month already a favorite among academic and experts alike and book suggest that intellect does not create innovator but won social, emotional that enables u true genius to break through not just once but again and again and

after the talk they continue conversation during reception in and book sign here in the room. royalties from all books sold tonight will go to stem kids nyc with a year with round intensive sweet of stem education program for k-12 scholar and now please allow me to it hand a the stage over to melissa and justin. thanks. [applause] so we're going to talk about what's inside this book in a minute but i wanted to ask you first of all melissa how it came to be -- to start that but what do you spend where are time doing most of the time? >> mostly i'm a researcher and teacher. and the research is about innovation, strategy -- >> most of my research is large scale imper call research more known for so big and license network and fair am a of creativity and learning.

and -- innovation and a few years ago well that describe it. what was the goal with that? >> yeah okay well will famous economist who was here at nyu until a couple of years ago. we wanted to study what made people either entrepreneur or investor and he had a hypothesis about education and also about childhood tragedy. and i had disagreements over lunch frequently so we decide ited to do a really large scale project looking at adventure collected 600 on a list, and historical -- going back to -- i want it say maybe going back 200 years and we hired a team of students to collect biographical data on these people and the challenges that when you collect

data on 600 people what you get is relatively thin you don't get a lot of details king thely across all of those people. so when we came away from that project we had information about their work history and education. but i felt really unsatisfied i felt like we didn't really have -- a lot of deep insight into what had made people entrepreneur or investors but then something -- >> before we go on it was right -- but what were the hypotheses and how did it turn out investors and what their education -- >> i can't remember which side he took it and i took at the time. [laughter] but we did find that investor on the whole had more informs than entrepreneur entrepreneurs did not have advance degrees event force did. >> well -- yeah. definitely, definitely the presence of higher education has gotten bigger over time but for everybody not just for inventors. >> sorry back --

>> so i have to say that what really trig arerd this book -- wases in 2010 i was teaching innovation strategy i teach a lot of courses in vat gist innovation strategies, and i do -- i have a texas book in innovation so i'm always revising and staying up and in 2010 about when steve jobs was looking very, very thin, students started asking me what's going to happen? how much of that magic is in the man himself? how much of it is a myth and actually at apple is that embedded in organization structure and the routine of apple? was it him and lose it and can it be handed down and fundamentally what people wanted to know is can i do it? how can i have that capacity? and i went to research thinking well surely someone answered this question and i look at research on psychology and i looked at research in management, and -- it really had not been answered. there's really not that much

research on this topic and in part because it's a hard question to go after and a rigorous way so as i discovered with obama it is very hard to put together a large sample of people to think you get innovators in there. you also can't get them in the laboratory right if you call steve jobs or o elon musk they won't let you study them so studying people were not well suited to studying outliers and people are fund mentally outlies and e they are rare in our history and study them is challenging so i -- i decided to just study steve jobs not because i thought i can publish it but u buzz i needed to know at this point and i wanted to know something about him and i had taught a the case for years. so i knew plenty about apple but this time i wanted to know about steve as a person. so i read everything that i could find written on him i watched all of the videos. read every recorded transcript. just studied his childhood, his

friends, quotes from his girlfriend, quotes from his family. and a really odd thing happened during that time is that i started to notice that he had unusual commonality with another innovator that i had studied before i written a case about about dean years before that time and dean you know him from having segue transport tore but the segway is not his most important innovation. ming biggest flop -- >> really bothers him that it is what people known him for been but it was the infusion pump and dialysis machine and prosthetic arm and mobility wheelchair. so that's kind of -- >> because my nephew with has one of those. that's a -- >> have to write him a thank you note. so dean cayman and steve jobs had strange commonalities i

can't believe how they're connected to innovation and then it hit me i'll do a multiple case study research project to study eight serial break through inno vai or to set up a rigorous process for selecting them to keep myself out of that process so there's not researcher bias, and i didn't even care if it turned into something i could publish. i knew it was a high risk project to find nothing useful or end up not publish it and control group is rest of us but i did it because it was it pure fun, and it was so fun and aluminated in the end i learned so much. not just about managing innovator or selecting and employees, but also about parenting. like you with learn a lot about kids. studying these people -- >> so what you did it then is same they think you did with jobs for all of these people u you've got every biography you could find. and -- not a lot of videos of marie --

but how did you like -- the actual day-to-day was it -- you sit to read and then -- keep it all in a spread sheet or what? what was the basic? >> all of those things so i was on sabbatical and didn't get out i would start reading in the morning. reading, i had spread sheets. i had dry erase boards i was drawing maps between people to do every life compare son you go through this process of identifying theme and then one of the key things you have to do is when you think you have a theme you prove it so find disseption to the rule to see if this is a theme. but last thing you want to believe something that is just maybe a coincidence. so -- in the book i really only talk about themes everything that i talk about in the book is exhibited by at least seven out of eight innovator most are by innovators the exceptions, that two cases where it's, where it's 7 not 8 out of innovator are

interest and of thels themselveses and may be weal talk about it that. >> so what you came up with is basically five -- kind of internal traits but that's the meat of the book is these traits. let's quickly go through five and go back to they will and so number one, a sense of separateness. what does that mean? >> i want to say one thing real quick too as an academic i'm careful about the word traits because psychologist have a specific meaning of what you can call a trait so i tengd to characteristic but it says trait on the cover so -- that yeah. so all except benjamin franklin exhibited this strong sense of separateness where they felt socially disconnected. they felt detached from the world. they didn't feel like they

belonged to it and as a results didn't apply to them. >> i want to quickly go to reid and spend more time on them. and number two extreme confidence. >> yeah. actually a specific form of confidence so they weren't always sort of globally confident you might not concluded that she was globally confident but it is task related confidence, where you have face in your able to overcome obstacles achieve your goal and person with extreme efficacy will take on things that other o people would think were impossible. which we see a lot over and over again. >> number one sense of separateness number two extreme confidence. number three create arive mind. >> okay so this is of things many that chapter. this chapter -- which i focus a lot on nikola in this chapter really highlights the connections between intelligence and creativity and also why the association between genius and madness.

there really -- get become to that in tesla. >> fine. number four -- great at this. you're great. >> i have a crazy idea to get them all in everybody's heads before we go back to them. number four a higher purpose. idealism. >> seven out of eight inno vai or to requester fiercely idealistic pursuing goal that is noble and honorably that drives them not money, you know, not fame. a lot of them sacrifice their health. their reputation, their families, their leisure everything in pursuit this have goal because it was an ideal. >> and exception was -- >> edison. number five, driven to work. not like in a car but -- although some might have been. yeah. >> yeah. they all -- loved to worker but i refer to border coolly i'm a dog person they're known for being just incredible work animals because they get such joy out of herding

sheep, in fact, they'll herd anything. chats and children and chickens, and you don't have to train them o or reward them they do it because they love it. saying among dog people if you don't give theme job it will come up with its open and you will not like it and all on the set were like this. they were happiest when they were working hard. >> so sense a separateness extreme confidence. creative mind higher purpose, driven to work. so let's go back to the separateness. especially because in innovation it seems like so much of the talk in recent years has been about the power of groups. the power of collaborations. >> yeah i have to say that this was a surprising finding for me, and in particular because a lot of work i've done is on collaboration. i do work on network, and everybody in networks believe that social networks are hugely important. not only for developing ideas but implementing ideas to get them defuse sod how could it

possibly be that all of these serial break through innovator didn't have strong social at all but very disconnected. and turns out -- it's actually one who talked about it the most is einstein and could articulate is clearly. he pointed out that first of all he said he felt very detached from people even from his family that he loved humanity. but not necessarily people individually. right he loved humanity as like a global concept. but he felt separate from people. but he also felt it was very important to not become part of the herd to think independently he thought his sense of separateness on one with hand meant he was a littleless genial maybe mellon coolly in words about that and made him able to reject assumption that held other o people back and made him able to challenge received wiz document and hugely responsible for his ability to cast off concepts that kept lorenz from

making the advances that he made so being separate enabled people to challenge rules do it things that other people thought were wrong sometimes or impossible or often statistic with them even when other people argued against them. they were fundamentally unreasonable people but as george points out all progress comes from the unreasonable man. so -- we can see that very clearly in the unreasonableness and see it in elon musk today and steve jobs. >> but you think about -- tesla versus jobs and musk were actually able to get a bunch of other people to help them realize -- they were very separate and very different and hard to get along with in some ways but they have this ability to make things happen. whereas tesla struggled with that all of his life. >> he works mostly alone mostly at night. and other -- you know his greatest inventions were taken off by other people. >> except that wii still using ac electric --

developed when nikola tesla some don't know that much. but nicholas right up there not only invented ac electrical systems pretty much all of them. he also invented wireless communication which was for yearses are attributed to markoni and then kale out in a big court case and realized that he was riching off tesla and invented lighting system and first remote control robot. he -- i actually think that he of everybody on here was the smartest one. his moingd was like a human computerred design system he had this incredible photographic memory. so much so he thought he was having hallucinates to see things because of his memory to build a machine in his mind and turn it and run it. notice it was wobbling a little bit. adjust it turn it. refine it. fix it and when he was completely done he would put it into physical form and it would work perfectly. and -- while you're inclined to doubt

that, many people witnessed him doing all kiengdz of advanced fizz ukes in real time in his head. didn't have to write anything down. just a brilliant, brilliant man. a block from here or couple of blocks from here. lab was on west broadway or lagarde why place within about a block of this building was nicholas tesla's lab. ho you put the that together that best ideas come individually with all of this talk about collaboration and meeting to work together. are there like concern simple meths you can do to release this come out of this? >> absolutely. so one of the implications thing i talk a lot about in the book and psychologists have known this for years and it's amazing that it hadn't really gotten out to management. but brain action groups don't

work but for some reason so embedded that every since they wrote a book in 1956 said that group were better for creativity we bought into that and now almost hair city to argue they don't work and presented it and saying brainstorming groups don't work and people looked at me horrified because we like to do things in teams and we believe they're important. but problem is, the teams may be important for some thing but not great for creativity and number of or quality of ideas or o novel ties and reason is when you get together in a group you might not want to put your craziest things about it. that one is obvious but second one that is fascinating is called production blocking while i'm talking, first of all you're not talking. but you're actually not even really thinking. i'm hijacking your thought process. i'm bringing you over to my ideas while i'm talking. it's hard for you to elaborate

your ideas while i'm talking that means when people are working together they're losing stuff and third piece which the psychologist -- the psychology field hasn't tack about much yet that you really understand it when you start to study mosque and jobs is when people are in groups a lot of people want to avoid conflict. a lot of people struggle with conflict. so they make confession so they stand off all of the sharp corners of their ideas and you end up with this -- it this compromised thing which isn't the beautiful bold unusual and unreasonable idea that you started with. so first of all that means let meme work alone. first -- and then at some point bring them together. at some point you can bring them together but make sure they've committed to ideas. developed them out and feel noer fear and should be encouraged to be weird and unorthodox to make bold hypotheses you have to find a way to signal a high tolerance for failure and high tolerance for unconventionality and weirdness. >> so the next characteristic

extreme kftd. i mean that initially sounds like especially lately for some reason there's been a lot of talk about don and krueger efnght which is people who have low abilities thinking they're brilliant. clearly these people were very confident about themselves and they were brilliant. how do you separate that and figure out you know internally? >> yeah. so you know, this strong selection bias on these people and that all of the people i studied were geniuses. they were geniuses, in fact, when i first went into this project i didn't think steve jobs would be a swreen use but he tested at 10th grade level in fourth grade his school recommended he be advanced two grades. his family said socially he wasn't ready for that so they advanced hmm one grade, and so -- he was basically declared genius by age of fourth grade. but how do you tell if someone

is just confident versus someone smart or -- i guess -- >> because you're right probably millions of million who is possess extreme confidence that you describe here. it's just they're not combined with other things. but you need that -- that confidence thing is interesting because -- efficacy, that is that task related confidence it's not valued it's not justifiable for innovation but for a lot. it's for productivity and sense of well being. like it's a trait that we should actively try to build in people because it's a powerful and empowering trait and you can build it. you can build it in children and build it in employees you can even build it in yourself and easiest way to all of the most effect ifn way to build it is allergy l win so when you experience this early win of doing something -- that you weren't sure you could did and maybe there's opticals that you stick with it and you solve it. that ends up sending strong signal to your mind that you can

overcome obstacles to achieve your goal in each of the innovator lives they have early wince and they talk about it how important it was. how at that moment they knew -- what they could do. they had this incredible confidence steve jobs talks a lot about how building the blue boxes with wads was a crucial moment he said without that. we discovered what we could do and suddenly we could do so much. >> boxes that allow you to -- >> hack phone system to develop a system to hack phone system and he said if there have been been no blue box there wouldn't be no apple so that was important. but direct implications u how you manage kids. if someone is struggling with something a little bit sometimes instinct is to jump in and help them which is good for social bonging and for signals a nurturing relationship. but it's undermines self-efficacy a lot of times you're saying i have faith in

you as long as you think it is something they have a chance of solving they should probably let them work it through and solve it on their orlando own to buildset efficacy and another way that's even easier do you want to know what that one is -- >> sure. >> so interesting humans are -- an interdependent animal that rely on interdependence and wired for social learning meaning you don't have to go to try berries for the summer they'll kl you but you learn from seeing if they kill anyone else. you learn about what you were with likely to be able to jump over or what you can do by observing what other people can to you're wired that way. that's your nature. and so we can actually build it through hero story. so when we have people -- like in school with kids if they learn about someone that they can identify with in some way not some superhero but someone to identify with struggling through some problem and then overcoming it and a succeeding, they also learn something about themselves at that moment. you can build it that way.

>> so does "star wars" count or too superhero? >> "star wars" -- probably counts -- yeah. yeah. >> theive mind it sounds kind of broad but there's some specific things about how these people brains work. >> i say two biggest things in that -- that i found in that chapter, that i talk about in that chapter, the first one is the relationship between intelligence and creativity. we've always known there was some relationship but it's been unclear because it's not the case that all geniuses will be creative and not the case that you have to be yet some relationship and when you -- when you are study it at a neuroscience level what you end up realizing first of all slightly elevated dopamine does you to experience deep focus attention, it reduces your ability to screen out stimuli

called late inhibition so if you have you have that dope moon you feel more creative and more creative and reason that parkinson's patients someone with told me few years ago someone came to me one of my colleagues said did it you hear, that they've discovered that parkinson's people are actually -- much more creative. they suddenly discover all of these artistic abilities, and they have all of these talents they never knew they had and at the tile i was studying nikola tesla and i was thinking a lot about dopamine and i said at that moment it's the levodopa they're treating them with because you treat people with parkinson's with sthimmic dopamine, and sure enough about six months they figured out it was. but so this dopamine elevation it makes you more creative. but it also enhances working memory and executive control. so people with modestly elevated -- dopamine are likely to not only attend to stimuli to be better at defocused attention but they

can retain more of it and working memory is enhances things that look a lot like intelligence. >> how do we elevate dopamine without getting parkinson's it has? >> so elevating if you elevate kronkically don't take it because if you elevate your dopamine too much it or chronically or stimulate dopamine receptors with meth or cocaine or even sex my kids here so i probably shouldn't have made that reference. but if your dopamine is too high, too much your brain which is this very smart animal of its own down regulates it turns them off which is exactly why meth a.d. dictate when they get off of method look like a parkinson's patient. they don't want to talk, experience, they don't experience pleasure from anything. so you don't want to elevate your dopamine that much. ...

>> pushoff the light also

obsessive-compulsive disorder so anything spherical makes them feel important he had to calculate the food every night if it wasn't divisible by three he could not eat it. so you see all the diagnostic criteria and one is the dopamine that is very highly elevated. but then you go back and look at the others everybody but einstein slept vacantly less so marie curie and edison talked about four hours a night franklin was five hours per night steve jobs was between five and six, elon

musk says six and a half hours but the national average is eight and half hours. for developed countries the lowest is japan that is still seven and a half. so they were significantly less. >> so the ceo profile of business magazine i just wonder if they will kill themselves because they don't get enough sleep but maybe they just don't need it. >> i think it can be very hard when the dopamine is elevated the insomniac feel tired they wish they were sleeping but they don't feel tired at all.

>> and the chapter when we are thinking about the association path and what was different was very creative and then to go much faster. >> so five minutes later they start to move the others. but now they can make that connection faster. >> that is with executive control. but elon musk is always thinking ten steps out. that is how his mind works. but to see the world differently than usual and the implications of something.

what happens next? or what caused that what caused that? what caused that? he will get the bigger picture quicker because he is ten steps out. >> so that higher purpose of idealism. there is a lot of differing opinions. what is he doing? is it a big snow job? so what is his higher purpose? >> and if you take the time to study elon musk no way you come away thinking he is about the money. he is not about the money at all. remember he sold his first videogame when he was 12.

so today in 12-year-old you're you're not that impressed but this was the early '80s. when the screens were monochrome. so then he forms an internet company and then sells it to compaq for millions of dollars that starts the financial payments company that becomes paypal that he sold to ebay by the time he sold that company he has $180 million he doesn't need money anymore at that point he could buy an island and drinkable heaters. and then to make a meaningful difference in the world he heard that nasa would not take us to mars. they were like what do you mean? he said i will do it myself

then we got involved with tesla because of energy to move to a renewable energy alternative but he originally came up with the idea of solar city then handed it off to create renewable energy but then mars was the backup plan with a cataclysmic event that the only way to be preserved is if we have a colony on mars. but he really wants to get us to mars but he wants it so badly he will not take spacex public board of directors would force him to make changes so feverishly idealistic. >> what are those other ideals? >> people believe if he could have a free energy system he could eliminate physical human

work to focus on creative endeavors with those lifelong ambitions to global wireless communication systems because we believe if we can talk to each other and that has turned out not to be true. >> but then that enabled more so with that ideal benjamin franklin to huge the idealistic person that he had people follow the whole goal was around industriousness. with the monetary and and free american so tied to that ideal his run was a british loyalist

so he chose that idea of a free america. and so let's talk about dean kamen. it said technically he did not finish high school definitely did not finish college when he was a high school kid he started to tinker he got the contract for museums around new york and then got the contract to do the ball drop he is talented electronic person totally self-taught but then sought a person go to the doctor you have to be connected to a large machine and to be there for hours that disrupts your job and everything about your life and your dignity and he thought i can solve that problem.

he invented the portable dialysis machine than the drug infusion pump that he saw somebody in a wheelchair struggling to get up a curve and he felt so bad started to develop the i bought wheelchair that can climb stairs and stand up on two wheels and balance to be i to iv because that was an important part of dignity to love people in their eye. balancing something on two wheels is complicated people told him it was impossible but it is that technology. so. >> the non- idealist is edison. stomach i looked and i looked and i have to say falling in

love with somebody that you follow intensely but he electrocuted a lot of dogs also like how and of course, not the elephant but over two dozen dogs. boys came in with a dog off the street he would give them an orange just to show it was too powerful. that was tesla's electrical current. so i had a conflicted relationship with edison but i thought i would find that idealism somewhere having something close to the autobiography in 1919 and you could start on that but it is hard work so in the magazine

or the newspaper published in the early 1900s he just basically wrote i don't like to think about the highfalutin things i stay close to the ground that thinking is for other people. he has not an idealist but he loves to work and then i never intended to retire. and to be very materialistic because he likes to win and get patents but he did throw over tesla one point but he was also screwed over by j.p. morgan and then that was general electric. and then he took his name off of the moniker and

consequently then probably francis upton who said so you lost the 4 million that you made from your electrical enterprise and he thought about it and he shrugged and said we had a good time doing it didn't we? >> but the goal was to get just independent enough to work on whatever he wanted to do. >> he did not want to be a bossi wanted to be autonomous. >> but the hard work part but then there is lots of talk lately to be more productive but these people basically worked all the time. >> but the theme is that you

shouldn't work that so hard but in with those things that don't matter very much. like if i don't then i will pay for it he thinks you should work on things that really matter. it was always working on something that really mattered. not going back to the very first thing with the dean kamen they would wear the exact same clothes every single day. so did mary curie and in albert einstein's time they didn't have as many clothes. but with steve jobs and dean kamen and his hard to understand why they would read the same close every day but they don't care what other people think of them because they were separate socially.

those rules that apply to you do not apply to them at the same time they are focused on something more important. why do you wear the same close every day if you just wear a blue work shirt and he said i wear were close when i'm working and if i am awake im working. and then then to have this rack. and then the total jobs indicator. but that made her get to work quicker.

>> we will do questions in a little bit. so start thinking about things you want to ask. but those were the five individual characteristics extreme confidence of redness. >> higher purpose but then the other two chapters talked about the external factors of timing and resources basically and one of the things a bunch of white guys except madame curie and the fact she was able to do that is interesting because she is from poland? >> she grew up in the area occupied by russia and time

when they tried to look at heritage you could not learn polish literature or even use the polish language they tried to rectify that entire area. and to come from a family of intellectuals and then to believe firmly and education. and then to fight against russia without military means and then to lose very badly. but you can't fight russia that way. but then to make sure they are smart and educated and then

every must be educated and this is at a time when most of europe did not allow women to go into higher education. most universities did not allow them in but and with the university that was a public covert school program in basements and churches or the back room of your house. to educate women educating other women. she was running with a group of the smartest and fiercest women of her time educating other women and then from her siblings that were older studying math and science so

scraped up a little money traveled to france alone. and then and squeaked by on a meager existence getting her phd to overcome remarkable laws. so then you realize because what she had to do is intense also later in time to meet that criteria that she invented computer programming language talking about the fact women were not both and then business. this is like world war ii era even women were not welcome in business and science.

so she joined the navy to become an admiral and did computer programs in the navy. and because she was an admiral hp and ibm would talk to her because the military protocol neutered her to make her gender go away. so that illustrates to get into education with more people of color were also jews. so looking at a sample of people on the innovator list when at the very end of the time window so really she was the outlier.

>> had you come up with those eight people? most of them are americans. >> elon musk is south african, marie curie is polish tesla is from serbian dissent jobs as american einstein denounced his german citizenship and benjamin franklin was american and edison was basically but this goes back to a researcher i wanted to give myself out of the process that i could inadvertently introduce bias.

so i have this criteria everybody has to be on multiple but in the first 20 and letting the world identify to be those serial innovators to be those big innovations across their lifetime because if they only have one it is hard to separate so give me one invention instead of a lifetime and people love multiple biographies and to hear their voice but to hear the letters and video transcripts if madame curie

had a biography but one was written by her daughter. and then i found there was a lot of consensus with music because with that element that demand they had a very heterogeneous taste. and then only with science and technology. and with that criteria to be more objective there was those technology innovators. but then frankly it was all white men except madame curie that i picked people from different time periods and industry sectors you don't

want everybody during the ip boudoir just from the electrification era. you want people from different time. >> one of the episodes on the podcasts covered different research studies that were done to find commonality between ceos and they had a hard time finding those. so what do you think makes being a good leader in the ceo category different from the innovator? it is easiest to find those commonalities there but why does that provide that unique with that variable and not

only that we just admire them to be the ceo but to be a good leader and they are very valuable those huge range of applications it is harder to separate and not in those ceo roles. and that trick would be to identify the people in this kind of study that everybody agreed was the best ceo of all time. if we could identify the eight best of all time with the "in-depth" study and then studied them religiously we

would find some commonality. that is a trait you will find for people who are driven. and does things that people would find too hard or too scary. i don't know how they structure their study they probably block more people. >> i have a question about the connection between success and education. that was inflated to you don't need higher education to be extremely successful that might have the opposite effect with that creativity portion.

so i wonder among these people with the highly educated and if there was any connection between their success and innovation? >> that is a big take away from the book. you expect to hear access to capital is a lot. but all of these people there are some stories and nikola tesla arrived in new york with four cents and upon in his pocket. elon musk came over to canada at the age of 17 working on farms in a boiler room and most of them with far less

education and even with education to have that conflicted relationship with education. with those undergraduate degrees. and only interested in classes that he felt were relevant but mme. curie i will leave her out. she is the exception. but tesla was brilliant but was addicted to gambling and dropped out of school. but said that was the best thing that ever happened to him because he stayed on campus to take the classes he wanted to take. einstein has a difficult relationship with his professors.

and then how school can destroy creativity of a person. and then it is self-taught. benjamin franklin was very little schooling. and thomas edison so the doctors thought he was fragile they thought something was wrong with them if they do not send him to school. at some point that then they enrolled him that he was hyperactive in --dash distractible and somebody called him addled like scatterbrained and he told his mom and his mother got so mad she marched down to the school and said he has more brain

then you yourself and homeschooled him but then some of you have read the letter that is self-taught by the time he was 12 with all of the great philosophy text and the library just looking at these incredibly sophisticated books and also not to think education doesn't matter. that is not the case. but these people consume vast amounts of education. they were ravenous. and to see education at their own pace than they needed to

fly down to their own choosing. and with that luck then started in on the encyclopedia. and then in a "rolling stone" interview he said recently. but education matters. standardize education they need self driven education. and then to go off hers are very good and then to shoot off the rocket stomach with that respect for expertise.

>> i have been a professor now 24 years they don't think they are heterogeneous one answer that evaluation form they think the entire class is just like them but some are more visual learners are auditory or like structure or the conversation. frankly they will do better in silence or sublethal want to work in silence or in long stretches and in a first. so i think the challenge with standardized education is the children are not standardized. >> we are done but we will be around so people can ask questions. [applause] >> thank you for the traffic

and thought-provoking conversation. we have books and join us for the reception and don't forget the world he's will go to stem kids nyc. thank you for coming. [applause] [inaudible conversations]