to watch previous festival coverage click the book fairs tab on our website, booktv.org. >> [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] >> hello, everyone. you all sound excited. that's good. thank you so much for coming tonight.

my name is xandria phillips and i'm a bookseller at women and children first. we are one of the last 12 feminist bookstores left and the united states, and we wouldn't still be if not for all of you, so thank you for coming to this women and children first bookstore event. give yourself a round of applause. [applause] i'm very grateful to have morgan jerkins and britt julious her to discuss "this will be my undoing." before we begin i i want to maa few general announcements, starting with some information about upcoming events here at women and first. i guess were technically in swedish american museum. on february 26 we will let brittney cooper in conversation with page may and monica trinidad to discuss the book elegant rage, a black woman discovers her superpower. this will be held at the swedish american museum and will take place from seven to 9 p.m. tickets are available online through brown paper tickets. if you're interested to learn

more about our events be sure to sign up for our e-mail list at our table around the corner. you can check out our website and facebook page or follow us on twitter and instagram. one final thing before we continue with tonight stephen, the women's voices find is a nonprofit arm of the story that covers the cost of having events such as the one where having today. please consider putting a dollar or 100 100 and again located ie back. i shoot part of our mission at women and children first is to have well-established authors alongside emerging ones whom have yet to find a larger audience. your contribution helps make that possible. another note, we will be selling the book at the table around the corner as well, and morgan jerkins will be available for photo and personalized autographs following the event. now to the main event. we're happy to host britt julious who is a journalist and essays to gourley writes the

weekly column for the "chicago tribune" and regularly contributes pieces about art, music, race, feminism and culture to publications including the "new york times," esquire, g2, rolling stones and vice. she hosts the talkback come up i guess teaching stories from young women of color. it's an honor to have morgan jerkins with us today. this will be my undoing, and intimate politics from the situation of blackness combined with women. what i love about morgan jerkins assert resistance of monolith. washer speaks -- women of color will relate to come she always does so with a linen so deeply personal and rotating that it is impossible to strip the work of its individual voice and experience. morgan jerkins is a 25-year-old writer living in new york. she graduated from princeton university, was in comfort of literature specializing in

19th century russian literature and postmodern japanese literature. she has an msa from the writing seminars. she's written for the new yorker, "vogue", "new york times," the atlantic, rolling stone, the new republic and buzzfeed among many others. she's a contributing editor at "catapult." at this time we can welcome them to the stage. [applause] >> hello, everyone. that was so nice. a pleasure being with you all tonight. thank you so much for coming out this evening to hear me talk

about "this will be my undoing" with britt. i'm going to read from a section of an essay that was hardest thing i've ever written and it's called a hunger for men's eyes. the past couple of days i've been thinking about the #me too movement and i've been thinking about metropolitan spaces, basically street harassment. a couple of days ago when i was back in harlem, , manhattan, is talking about street harassment and the difficulty of keeping safe as a woman, particularly a black woman and how it's often affected we talk but these issues amongst black men. there was a man in the audience during the q and a who raised his hand. he did not have a question and he said, you know, the reason why men follow the women down the block, or pursue them relentlessly is because they have no home training picky kept

repeating himself. i nodded and tried to be gracious, but in the back of my mind i was like, how can i think about someone's home training when i am fearing for my life? so i'm going to read a section about street harassment and this sort of, i thought of a black woman with regard to my safety and someone else's. so i hope you like it. an nypd sniper tower was set up between 120 night an hundred and 30th street in harlem just a short walk away from where i lived during the summer 2016. i do not know for sure why it was there. it looms in front of the supermarket which is not exactly a hub of illegal activity besides occasional shoplifters whose pictures are posted on the left side of the glass door as you enter. central harlem in general is not that crying heavy. i walked home at 1:50 o'clock in the morning unscathed. i've never been bugged or heard

gunshots. i first thought because it was run the fourth of july may be the nypd was referring for something good entering independence day celebrations. but no. that couldn't be it. i moved in around this time last summer and early been no sniper tower. it's a tall white present communicate to all of us we better not try anything or else. sometimes a the police car woud be parked beside the door and i sprint up to see if there's anyone in the tower but it's windows were tinted black. i wanted to ask passersby for what it was doing but i suit anyone's guess would've been as good as mine. i always said that if god forbid anything happens to me, i would go to the blackness that on top of upturned cranes outside the barbershop or the lot of that before i could ask the police for help.

deaths had triggered another cool summer black rage that burned hotter than the heat itself. in july 2016 of which went up to a jazz concert at prospect park and i took the train home and got off at my usual stop. usually a family good mood or just finished a significant project i would reward myself with food or drink. a bottle of perrier, some gelato, strawberries, that evening i decided i could go for some intel's before returned by the apartment and ended the night with a shower and netflix. there was a deli open on lenox avenue despite the drug addicts lingered for the isles asking some could to spare change i hd inside. this was the same drug addict who i saw two blocks earlier. as i was entering the store a man kept calling me sweetheart and attempted to promote a bmx concert.

everybody laughs at that part about bmx. [laughing] i kept my earbuds in until they approached the counter as i needed to the cash you tell me how much i would have to pay for the mentos. no sooner did i pay for the mentos, a man called out to me and i made eye contact with him before stopping. supposedly dmx was having some concert at heart use in charge of promoting by passing out flyers. i do not know what was so aggressive that nevertheless, i felt sucked into containing the conversation. i asked when the concert was an repeatedly nodded my head feigning interest anarchists i thought had ended his relevant over decade. the man introduced himself as charlie wanted me to take out his number and called him in order to get tickets at a discounted price. i told him i would memorize it but he was not satisfied with my suggestion. there was discussed in his raspy voice. now i see, why are you playing

games with you harlem girls or something else. giving anybody for hit on you and him trying to do business. i'm trying to make money. i mean, i'm handsome and all but it ain't trying to get on your something. you out to playing games you are girls. i'm not from harlem i said dryly. what a one to that moment was you don't know me. in retrospect i think saying that it wasn't from harlem was way of evading his overconfidence but having all women in this never figured out to a science. but in that moment i was scared. his voice was steadily increasing volume, anger punctuating each word like a strike of an organ chord. the rest of harlem disintegrated as if both he and i existed in the vacuum. i felt alone. what if he hits me, i thought? what if he grabs up in significance outside wall of this deli? i took at myself whatever team to enter his number into my contacts directory. luckily for me he didn't link over to see what i was doing.

the woman who went into that deli west of the same woman who continued home. as soon as i walked to the end of the block and waited for the signal, i knew something had changed. i had been violated but i could not be in the mine i had to cross. charlie did not follow me down the block. he did not make rude remarks from the body. he did not break me and get men now terrified me. the pioneer supermarket, the nail salons became two-dimensional as if they could fall down my poker cards. a police car was parked beside the sniper tower. pickets red and blue lights flickering. police officers, one white and the other black leaned up against the side of the car chatting with the ease of the old alike new crowd around the table covered with dvds and vhs cassettes. the black officer inwardly glanced at me and a look back at him but said nothing. yet i wanted to comprehend that

my eyes were compensating for mike close mouth. it was yelling for help. but if either of those officers have lunch at my side, ask what was american i would of gays around configuring increases on markstrom looked behind to see charlie had followed which is not and said, nothing. they would have scoffed thinking i was crazy. if i did speak up and sit as a man harassing me at the deli on 127 and lenox, then what? this was harlem after all, such things are for all intents and purposes normal. i scurried home. once admitted to my room i drop my purse on the floor and sat at my desk in silence. staring silently at my computer screen and went to grip the side of my desk during that i would lose balance and crashed onto the ground but at least i would of come from i was on this earth. i was on the verge of tears and i was angry with myself for it. he did not spit at me come he did not comment at bitch or a hope your key did not put prest

zombie. he did not break me. i did that deserve to cry. i had to earn the right to let mike useful and when i looked at my scarred body i knew that i was unworthy. i repeatedly told myself that it could've been worse and emotional distress is less significant than physical distress. if i didn't have any scars that maternal showed been something i could easily get over. it was all integral and should be kept private. i voice been the personal mitigates negative experiences particularly with men by telling myself that they were never that bad. i texted my male friend with whom i've gone to jazz concert. i think we want him to love with me. i told him what happened and he replied with a sad face emoji. i was dissatisfied with his response but what was he supposed to do? take the subway up to i live which would take two hours at the time of die so we go searching for charlie? it wasn't like we were dating so what could i have done to defend myself?

the summer has never been kind to black people. the charleston massacre happened in june. george zimmerman was acquitted of killing trayvon martin in july. michael brown was murdered in august and now that summer the murders of starting and castille, who knows what they would have done picky could've gotten a simple warning but they could've taken into custody and then god knows what else. i would subject myself for a black man's arrest in 1000 times over over rather than watch his face hit the pavement with the police officers weight on his back. that's not just is. that is a betrayal. when i think about how harlem street are place of the conversation, economy and community i start to second-guess myself. maybe the only good that charlie was trying to sell more tickets to a dmx concert. maybe what he wanted was only money. maybe i misjudged his calling me

sweetheart and patronizing when he really was just trying to be nice because he did not know my name. maybe i cried because i'm still getting used to city a vibrant, not because of fight is going to hurt me. the more excuses i made for him, the less trusting i became of my body and my own instincts. that sniper tower, it is still there. i do not acknowledge it now. i keep my head low and my headphones nestled against my ears. i walked in a fashion summer to that of all the other black women with whom i crossed paths every night as i returned to my apartment. i wonder what kind of secrets they are holding in their bodies, what kind of experiences they had buried to protect someone else at their own expense, whom they can run to for help. thank you. [applause] so taking into, i'm a little

sick. my voice is where it should be but sort of taking that passage into consideration as well as the rest of the book, how did you decide what was going to be included in your collection? how did you decide okay, this is the specifics of wanted to tell, and it would include both references to the ubiquitous miss of street harassment and sort of coupling that with the murders of black men in america? >> in that particular chapter him talking so much about my sexuality and my faith and my mishaps with men, i was hyperaware or obsessed with how i appeared to other people, how

i was often so veiled by other people. i think these type of topics get magnified when you live in the city where the delineation between public and private spaces are very much blurred. and so i i wanted to write abot it because, oftentimes when we talk about street harassment or sexual assault, when we think of the controversy that surrounds public figures like bill cosby or nate parker, oftentimes it puts black women in a very difficult position because there is this belief that they're trying to get the black man down, for black women, particularly those who are survivors of certain types of assaults. i shouldn't have to put that to the side in the name of black progress. so i wanted to write about this chapter, and it was hard, hard to write about this particular experience because as you can

tell while i was reading it, there was so much second-guessing. i didn't want to hurt this person even though that person scared the crap out of me. even to this day i think about what would've happened to be if he would've leaned over and saw that i was not putting his numbers in my contacts. who would've helped me? but i was so concerned about protecting him. it has more to do with him just being a man and also because he is black. when we are i think about the k lives matter moving, police brutality, how ubiquitous that is, i thought felt it would'vea huge loss if i did that incorporate that into this book. >> and so i guess expanding from there then, can you sort of going to what were the decisions in terms of what was the reason behind some of the decision you made in terms of the content of the book? you write pretty extensively about your childhood. for example, you write about your experiences in terms of navigate the writing world. how did you decide that these pieces of your life were going

to really frame this particular narrative that really looks at the black american female experience? >> so if any of you are unfamiliar with the book publishing process, when you were trying to sell an essay collection you had to do something called a book proposal, and one of the components of a book proposal is writing sample chapters that would inevitably end up in the book. it's very interesting because when he decided i was going to write a book about sexual feminism, like through the lens of a black women, all of these memories started come up to the surface. when you start with the book the first chapter talks about wanting to join an all white cheerleading squad. that was of the first memories they came to the surface, like i had to write about it. it was also difficult because, i'm going to make an argument here, you know, because we live in trump's america and edwin is

so much in a race, i really wanted to demonstrate that woke me as even from a person a marvelous background is not letting her past. there are so many false starts, so many jagged edges to that. so when i wrote about my childhood or wrote about my dating experiences and all of that, i wanted to show how messy this evolution to be confident in myself could be. i told myself, you know, i would be doing a disservice to my readers if i tried to present a santa's picture of who i am, because that's not life. and so it was a part of me saying i know this is important. i am trying to be aware of the way it will make people feel but also say that it wasn't always this person. i was very hurt. i was pathologically pretty much insecure, had a lot of self-hatred, and i felt it was

necessary. i wanted to give full portrait of myself to show that. [applause] >> going off of what you said about wanting to write this particular portrait of intersectional feminism, one i guess, why was that sort of important for you to sort of explore? especially because you were young, pretty young, younger than me. and so why did you feel, one, that you had a desire and need to do this, you knew, and what for you in terms of your own life really sort of shaped you to discuss this? >> it's going to sound like a bio. when i graduated i didn't get a job in publishing like i thought i was. and i tell people when they go,

i'm going to talk but not because one point i was afraid to, but now that have this platform thinking i'm going to talk about it. when you're applying for publishing jobs a lot of times it would be like you just need for years of an english for the background, and your five favorite books. i assume we get something something. i get nothing. it was emotionally and financially devastating to go into manhattan for 15 minute interviews and not even get a call back. i had no other choice but to go home. back when i started freelancing back in 2014, this is at a time when editors were hungry for personal essays by when. also by the murder michael brown started the black lives matter moving editors were looking around and saying who has anybody think, talk about these issues that are bubbling to the surface in an emotional way? it was me, at the time writing about these personal essays, and

had an agent probably about a you in who told you what to write about black women? so much of your work online is going to that. i started writing fiction when i was in high school and i did an mfa in fiction. so she's on the work and said maybe you can expand on it. at that time i'm definitely a millennial, like i'm on twitter all the time. that's how i started my career and i was just bombarded in a good way with so much learning about what feminism it. because i came from a tightly knit christian committee. feminist was a bad word. it meant you wanted to overtake the main. it just been everything you could take, so to be bombarded with all this knowledge, these many threads about an even emotional labor, the age of the black women, you know, the horrific murder rates of trans black women, all of these things

and i was like i want to write something. like you said i'm young and what i get to certain age am probably going to read something and there's another little i can add onto this experience but because i feel like we're in such a great moment for black artistic production, across many different mediums can i was like, why not? i made this book proposal and senate. didn't have much hope in an luckily it worked out. >> what were some of the more, you talked about how you had to be very, you want to be very open and not sort of holding back in terms of telling this particular story and telling her own story. so what were some of the more difficult sections for you in terms of writing this book, in terms of polling from your own past? >> one of the most difficult things to write about was an experience i had with a person

who was a bully. thinking about how angry she made me feel but also much i couldn't stand her either. because i had a lot of self-hatred going on and even though at 14 i didn't know what assimilation it or didn't know what respectability, that's what i clung to. i thought it would protect me in the way, and bring up those memories of what i felt about her, but i felt about myself with regard to that experience. also when i i come heartbroken felt like i failed. not only as one but as a black woman, intend with all the success i was getting. those were hard for me because it doesn't depict me in the best light for good light, depending on your -- it was very hard and also it was hard because i was lucky enough to have an astute editor, but when you have a great editor they know when you

are psychologically cutting corners. they can tell when you're writing a paragraph and you're trying to skip ahead to much. there were times i was writing these memories down they told me, hey, you went too fast and you need to submerge yourself even for the because you got more in there. it was very emotionally challenging to not only be afraid, once the story goes on, anyone can see me happy want to but also knowing if i'm going to go there i had to go all the way there. i had never given myself the time in the space before this moment to really sit with those memories because i buried them in order to keep going on with my life. >> do you worry then about the interpretations of your writing, if people are going, they might see things from the service and make certain judgments, do you worry people will only be reading things from the perspective? do you feel confident that people can dig in and know that your sort of polling from the darker or the seedier or the more uncomfortable part of your

past to tell us this specific story? >> yeah, i worry, because even though, like i'm an adult i still want people to like me. i want people to like me a lot, and i think that is part of my former self, the girl to who ws beloved invalidated all the time. when you're writing a book about yourself you have to surrender. you have to surrender and realize once the book leisure hands can anyone has the power to think of everything want to think. people, when the read something, whether it's a positive or negative, they are allowed thate every day i have to tell myself, of course what someone to like my writing but even if they don't get matters still. i have to surrender and give it up as a writer. >> i think something that's interesting about this book,

sometimes the savage with other pieces of art that are coming from a black perspective for "the black eagle" perspective, is that people then assume okay, this is how all black women feel, this is all how black men feel. this represents black people in general. one, i guess to start, do you worry about people sort of judging what you are writing and then taking from that believing this is the only black perspective they should take from things? >> yes, even though i i say the first chapter, and even wrote about the proposal by story is not a one size fits all, it cannot be resolute to any type of experience, even my own because i'm still alive and i'm still living. there is this search for a universal truth a lot of times, particularly when it comes to give that marginalize

communities because a lot of our stories are not told. if you're not careful, the one store you see you think will cover the gamut and it won't. i feel people all time i've certain privileges, like i grew up middle-class, i went to an ivy league university, i'm light-skinned, straight. still people will say she can't speak for all of us i want to argue with you because i'm not. i wrote it down but i still understand the undercurrent of that discomfort because there are more stories that need to be told, and i can do that. it should be expected of me as an art or the writer of the black women who carries out forever because that's reinforcing another negative stereotype. i can't carry the load for the whole community. what i do know is that hopefully thank god, you know, being here with all of you with the success it has received critically and commercially but of editors will

like wake up, you have to get more stories. that's what i hope. >> let's talk about what was the most may be enjoyable or, you know, yeah, what was the most enjoyable chapter for you to write about? you talked about what was the most difficult and sort of digging deep into your experiences with a bully, but what gave you joy in the writing process? >> there were three chapters that gave me joy. i couldn't just do it down. one of them was writing a love letter to michelle, because i love her, but who doesn't? it was easy to write because it was like she just mattered so much to me, so many people. i was going, i was writing. another what about it's like how to survive. it's a manifesto and are so many different points about

celebrating oneself. it was therapeutic for me to write that. and then the last chapter and it's called a black girl like me, writing about my experience as a writer and talking about how hard it was being rejected in college and not getting a job in publishing if you like hey, i have arrived. and so that was also joy, too. polling from those dark memories and pull the reader into an oasis so they are not traumatized and say there are good parts, just stick with me, it's coming. >> speaking of the last chapter, what sort of, there are a lot of young black women here today, which is great, and i guess would want to know and maybe they would want to know what kind of advice or insight would

you give them in terms of approaching the writing community, both the fiction and publishing world as well as working for publications, what kind of advice would you give them? because you went to a lot of particular struggles. i know i went through a lot, sever, especially being in chicago and fighting a lot about music where men don't care what a woman has to say at all. i guess i would want to know what sort of things would you tell your readers and listeners and now? >> don't ask for permission. and i mean it. do not ask for permission. and maybe i'm just like an impatient person but don't do it. like me, i wasn't the type of person player, if i saw an editors email e-mail address ae it on twitter, i'm contacting that person because they put it out there so they did what in which to contact, should you put out there like that. so when people ask me, like, how

did you get published in new yorker? i found the email address and account rejected three times, and the fourth time it worked. how did you get published in atlanta? i got rejected eight times. this was fast rejection. i said the pitch and five minutes later, no. then i got it. don't ask for permission. don't be afraid to reach out to your base, especially authors of color. you can't imagine the type of challenges they face. some writing a book or writing a book proposal to publication, sometimes it is good to have someone say icu. you never know, that person might be your mentor. it surely was for me. find your circle, too. of people who are going to be there for you when the writing gets tough. that's going to applaud you when you find that success. that is incredibly important, but overall i would say as a

black woman, especially in publishing, gravitate, like lean into what you naturally like. don't think you are to investigative journalist that you know you can write an analysis like nobody's business. maybe pop culture is just your thing and that's okay. i would just tell them just don't feel like you have to wait for somebody to tell you go. like you press that key. >> so now we're going to take some questions from the audience. so any questions? i think we will -- are articleo pass the mic around? yes? [inaudible] >> the title of the book? >> i love this question. basically, i have a particular affinity for words that start with the prefix un, unwind, and probably come in doing. as an agent like a lot of the

memories i bring up here i didn't give myself the time and space to ever been unpacked because it was so painful. but now that have some distance from them unable to go backwards and undo these recollections. i was what about the time because i thought it was a bit ominous so maybe this subtitle helps to offset that. but yeah, it's a way of going back word to show you where i came from before launching forward. >> it was interesting to say you sort of got your start in 2014 during sort of like a time when people are looking for personal essays. i have heard the reverse now that hose 2016 election, , it's almost like every has too many problems to hear. do you agree with that, and if so, do you think that's a

problem? >> i agree with it. because like the fact that i'm even here is like a blessing. because trump takes up so much personal space. as soon as he was elected, like, so many bookpeople, culture critics were afraid of what that would mean to their publications because everybody wants to do about trump and all the horrible things the political administration is doing every single day. also what's happening in terms of personal essays is that now i feel like writers don't have a chance to be exported. nothing has have a political opinion, like in 2014 i can talk about a medical emergency. in 2018 i to say how does it relate to health care? i don't want to talk about him

right now because what has havt strong angle. but also facebook has messed it up. the reason why, because companies are getting so much money from video now, they're getting so many clicks. there going to go where the money is. the problem with that is editorial budgets get slashed. peoples jobs get cut. so you don't have people, the editors, the bandwidth to not only publish these essays but also to help hone these writerso they can go from publication to publication to build a portfolio. not only is it trump becoming the president, also because of these video clips that are happening, it's like a domino effect. it is definitely a difference. it's only been, hasn't been for years yet and it still like night and day. >> to talk but it's amazing that you even here in this climate. what do you think people can do to kind of realized that the

trump administration anything happening now is only one sector and keep pushing forward with issues like what you talked about in your book and other things as well? what we do to keep aware? >> it's interesting because i was the people you have to take breaks, like if you want to feel sad every moment of the day, just look at what isis is doing. look what's happening with reproductive health in texas summer. you can find it easily, but everyone has a limit. like i was talking about, like being woke. you cannot be on all the time. there are certain topics you don't know that other gitmo better than you but that doesn't mean you're out of the race. that doesn't mean you can contribute. i always tell people if there's a march going on and you know you can't go because you have a disability or if you're just not feeling well or you know with the police, you could go get arrested. don't feel shamed into doing it.

there are other ways you can contribute. i tried to tell people it's good to stay informed. you have to because the fight will be long, that also because it's a long we need you and get to know when your limits are and to take the rest and get back in. it's going to be here for a while. you can't of anybody else if you're not going to help yourself. it's a cliché but it is the truth. >> where did your love and passion for your work, from? >> well, when i was going out and being bullied. there was so much i want to say but i did say because i was afraid. i went back on every single day and created these stories because i wanted friends. granted, my sentence structure was terrible. the plot was not fair, but i loved it. i could tell a story, i love

entertaining people, i just didn't know craft. but it was there. it was percolating very slowly. >> when i was reading your book i had no idea how old you were. [inaudible] but you sound very mature and led a very interesting life already. what do you think is in your future? [inaudible] [laughing] >> i'm going to write more books. i want to travel more. i want to keep pushing myself as a writer, whether that's reading more challenging words, whether that's finding more communities

that are going. and also want to other people stories. i think what this book i'm not going to talk about -- i still have way more adventure to cover suits could be a while before i write something in a book length on this autobiographical in this way. so that's what i want to do is challenge myself to tell other stories, but tell them with the same amount of warmth and urgency that i can tell my own. >> congratulations on the book. it's really inspired. i was one if you talk a little bit more about feeling foldable, especially when you are writing the book and how you cope with that. i know you talk about 30 nfs been helpful for you but i was wondering if anything else that helps you overcome that feeding of vulnerability? >> somebody got me together, got

me together like they basically corrected me on something. i pride myself in being a gemini and i tell people, -- i was talking to someone about this impasse i was getting at with people, and i said to this person, i was like, i don't get it. i'm not getting these sort of results with other people in terms of connection but i'm really talkative. it doesn't make sense. they start telling me just because you're talking that doesn't mean you're open. that revolutionized everything in my mind. when i started writing this book i was not in therapy. i had no self-care ritual whatsoever. i'm in therapy now. just had an hour-long therapy session with my black female therapist this morning and it was great. i worked out now. i journal and i try to really

slow down the process of when i had negative experiences. because in the past when something negative would happen i would think i did it come it was my fault. because i would never control. i would say this person was a jerk, or allowing myself to be upset which i didn't afford myself to do. now in terms of self-care there's so much, i have more conversation with myself and be more vocal to the people in my life who care about me to let them know of the moment and see this moment when i'm not at 100. i think that's true vulnerability, to intimacy is let some nazi when your good but allow some to care for you in a different capacity when you are weak and you need someone else. >> i have a super nerdy question. have you focus on 19th-century y russian literature and post japanese literature, did any of that influence your work with

the way you approach writing at all? >> wow. it's interesting because in the beginning i was reading works by people who were not like me, that influence by writing particularly when i started my msa because ice tried to sound like men, or a lot of the dead white men. it was actually, , sorry, i wasa little irreverent. i have an instructor really told me you're not writing like yourself. basically, someone pulling a veil or your mask off, why are you trying to assimilate so much. why can't you believe in the beauty of your own voice. it did influence before a long time but it was like i i had to sort of distance myself a little bit from it to you what i really wanted to say. i'm still a a nerd with that stuff, like i i can talk your d off still about japanese

literature because it's what i studied for four years. it was a great time in my life in undergrad because i didn't have any advisor say to me that you are too ambitious. i was likely in an environment where there was no limits on what i wanted to study and i was so thankful that even if those connections only seen so far out, it's always a great conversation starter when i meet people. like i was thankful enough i was able to know that i can go into those places and there were not many boundaries. also i can find a connection and they are there. >> you touched on this oval a bit what do you have any advice for people who are still struggling like paying the bills, trying to get into a ritual of making fighting like the real deal? >> i would say not to reach a much into the work ethics of other people. because it's really damaging. you have to know your stride,

like me, my stripe is i write in the morning because you can talk to me about anything in the morning. like i'm sharp. when it gets to noon, new noonl about four or five, my energy plummets. i'm not writing anything. it's hard because he come across a writer whose as i can write from nine to five and i'm like, no. but i know those two or three hours in the morning, it's going to be good. it's always good to know your stride. if you are a person was like i can only write like 11 o'clock at night and it's only going to be 450 words but it's the best damn 402 or something to that. you can only write but you need light to be . this way and you need key right here, that's okay. just know when, like a stride is. when you know when you're at your optimum, whatever change estimate to get that come you are pretty much unstoppable.

>> your book cover, i have read the book yet but your speaking has a lot of universality to women and men, how to relate to other people. the book cover in particular, like black versus white. there are a number of times where i'm in a situation where you have white privilege or your white and find this, so you couldn't possibly get in my world. another minority, a religious minority so maybe you don't know my world so well. i feel like your message has so much to share with the world about where we are at. so how do you make this not a black versus white issue? how do you take it to the world without being polarized? where are such a polarized

place. >> i think it's interesting because when we talk about our expenses come let's talk about, for example, sexual assault, right? i think the difficulty in talking about my experience as women, i have to bring in my race in the because i can't divorce vituperative bomb is that when you enter into spaces where you're not, maybe the only black woman in the room, oftentimes, a missing to the guitar but as a as a black woman someone thinks as soon as you put that clause in front of you speak you are undermining and you are not just adding a leader, right? if, for example, if i'm talking to someone who is a religious minority and they say -- i sit as a black, talk. it shouldn't be olympic spirit should be a weight undermining one. it's like i think talking about this book and saying how it is a

white america, it's because as a black woman i have to be conscious so much about whiteness functions. and i can't, and yes, there are moments where in certain spaces it's like i'm not worrying about this force, but i have to confront it had come because of the legacy of black people in this country that we're still reckoning with. oftentimes like when you read the book that minimums what does look polarized because as a black girl, as a black woman oftentimes our contributions, are beauty is often erased or ignored. i don't want anyone to see it as a way of me being antagonistic but sort of as a guide, a lesson of elderly in this country feels like, having to sort of deal with these two different realities, have to deal with -- that's what i hope that even in

a moment it is polarized that people understand that this is a legacy that oftentimes black girls and women had to do with and not to be slated for to see for the all these different routes. >> thank you. [applause] >> i was just going to ask everyone to give another round of applause, though thanks for being on it. i just want treatment and when we do have books on sale around the corner, support local business, women and children first. we will have a book signing. [applause] >> a book signing and photos at this table here. thanks so much. [applause] [inaudible conversations]

[inaudible conversations] a look at some of the current best-selling nonfiction books according to amazon.

>> i wanted bernie and his supporters, , because i wanted

them to be a part of what was going to happen. hillary won the primary fair and square. she had 4 million more votes than bernie. she did not set the primary date in florida or alabama or louisiana. she also had more pledged delegates and more unpledged delegates. tim kaine call for the elimination of unpledged delegates. we need to have these debates within the party. when you to have this conversation. if not now, when? >> when are some of these reforms you would like to see in the dnc? >> that unity commission is going to pick on a lot of those so-called intellectual confirms, that pledge versus unpledged delegates. they are also going to take a look at the window, what states go before i were in new hampshire. once upon a time most of the people in florida, we penalize people for going early. 2008. i want to make sure you all know i'm the same donna. i also think that internally the

party is -- time for us is doing a great job in reforming the party. that's what with so many great victories last week across the country. first let's start by let's be honest. howard dean was aptly right, we have to have the 50 state strategy. i love you florida. there's a reason why from florida all the way across new mexico, there's no other state on this side of the line that gets resources. virginia gets a few dollars, north carolina gets a few dollars but again look across this vast country especially in the south. northern states. we have missed opportunities over the last ten years to steal democrats in all the states pick on tuesday tom perez enable us to victory after victory after victory. by the way, we are now 450 votes short of winning three more seats in virginia. so it's important that we invest

down ballot, that we put resources across the country, that we use howard dean's prescription which is all 50 states matter. >> should the dnc get rid of superdelegates? >> as someone who's been a superdelegate for 20 years can i just say no comment? i think we need to have healthy debate. the reason why, i don't want voters to think that my vote matters more than their vote. as long as you have that perception that i'm somehow special, supra, that i have power, i don't want that. with that in mind i can understand that people like me in the future if i want to be the delegate to the convention, i need to run your i don't know as a former chair, chair emeritus, i may have special status but i don't know. don't take away all my love.

>> so the point of the book where you say why wasn't obama famous? talking about the intelligence, where were the intelligence agencies? this was a national emergency. accidents of what i heard a lot of republicans make. if this is all happening, why wasn't president obama talking about it? why wasn't he? >> myerson is that president obama went to the leadership in the congress, republicans and democrats, and they said, mitch mcconnell said you should not make a big deal out of this. you should not go public. and so the president decided, because he told the president it would tip the scales. i know that leader pelosi, paul ryan ignored us. i know chairman lujan went to his counterparts at the republican committee. he was ignored and on october 18 after our brief and with dhs i

went to reince priebus on october 4 which was the republican vice presidential, i mean the vice presidential debate, in virginia, and you looked at me. there's a picture, he looked at me because i was all in him. i said you know this is happening. this is another revolution. >> you always look that way. >> this is another revelation in the book. i try to reach out to sean spicer. not to melissa mccarthy sean spicer. [laughing] but i try to reach out to sean spicer that the entire time we were being hacked. first, i wanted to know what was in the hacking. secondly, i wanted to know about the malware just in case he opened it. if the dnc went down, we would corrupt and election system across the country and want to make sure the republican system was protected. as we have two major political

parties and with databases and i was worried. every time i went up to the republicans, people call me angry, i am a little bit, a little upset that the republicans ignored it. the reason why obama didn't use the bully pulpit more the way you saw angela merkel use it in germany, is because he was told he would tip the scale. i also think there one other reason. and that is because the hillary clinton campaign were convinced they would win. they were so convinced they would win that i don't think they even pull in the last three weeks. she's going to win and meanwhile here i'm putting cold water on their little -- not so fast. i mean, who else would do about how paul's can -- polls. i mean, on the day of the election i mention that it bought into the room and they're all sitting there like what positions they would have in the

administration. the presidential inaugural and i'm sitting there, like, do you know the people in north carolina? there's no electricity and a look at me like, i said you know the long line in philadelphia because people -- you look at me like. it wasn't till 7:00 that night they started like, and i'm like, really? and i was angry at this point. i with a so-called victory party in the first was a brain into was stevie wonder. i worked with him on the campaign to make change for nationality. i said what are you doing your? it's a victory party. people are not -- you should be on the radio. i was panicking. they thought they were going to win. all day they kept saying to me when i was sending them -- have seemed exit polls? i don't believe in exit polls. remember florida? [laughing] >> you can watch this and other programs online at booktv.org.

>> you are watching booktv on c-span2 with top-notch -- .. unfolds daily. in 1979, c-span was created as a public service by america's cable television companies and today we continue to bring you unfiltered coverage of congress >> the supreme court and public poy eventse in washington, d.c. and around the country. c-span is brought to you by your cable or satellite provider. >> host: jimmy soni, in your new book, "a mind at play," you write if there can be said to have been an old boys' club of silicon valley in its initial days, then claude shannon was a