today we continue to bring you unfiltered coverage of congress, the white house, the supreme court, and public policy events aroundington, d.c., and the country. c-spanalk about the techniques used by telemarketers and ways to prevent illegal calls. this is just under. >> good morning everyone. welcome to the fcc, ftc policy forum on fighting the scourge of illegal robo calls. i'm patrick weber, chief of the consumer and governmental affairs bureau at the fcc. we are very pleased to join forces with the ftc to further

the fight against illegal robo calls and caller id speed. online calls are a major source of complaints to the sec and ftc and we look forward to the policy discussions today that will address ways to protect consumers and encourage the development of private-sector solutions. this morning will hear remarks from fcc and ftc leadership. we will also hear from a diverse group of speakers on three moderated panels focusing on challenges facing consumers and industry today i'm a recent regulatory enforcement efforts, solutions and tools for consumers. today's policy forum is being streamed live with captions on the sec website and will be posted for later viewing once complete. with that, it is a great pleasure to introduce our first featured speaker, sec chairman mr. pai. [applause]

>> thank you so much, patrick. good morning. welcome to the fcc. thank you all for coming. i apologize at the outset that i'm in the midst of a cold so i've been alternating between sounding like barry white and katharine hepburn. nonetheless, i will persist. special thanks to our cohost the traffic team from the ftc and our fearless leader, my friend acting chairwoman and i understand she will be appearing by video. she's not able to be here in person today. thank you as well to my colleagues for taking the time to be here and speak this morning. this cross agency venture and flex the importance of the issue of unwanted robo calls. for years this has generated the most consumer complaints here at the fcc and i know the companions of the federal trade commission have gotten a lot of feedback about it, as well. today's corporation brings together not only the fcc and ftc but also other leaders in government and the private sector and the nonprofit community. it's a group effort and one that

is necessary and appropriate to tackle this challenging issue. it evokes in my mind been bricklin's famous quote upon signing the declaration of independence in 1776, we must indeed all hang together or we most surely we shall all hang separately. to be sure this is perhaps less and x essential issue than one franklin was facing but nonetheless the fight against unwanted robo calls requires a similar unity. none of us will defeat the subscores alone. the unfortunate inventiveness of scammers and technical challenges and the sheer volume of calls that are being unleashed on american consumers are daunting for anyone entity to debate. working together i think we have a better chance. here at the fcc combating unwanted robo calls is our top consumer and have taken multiple steps over the last year to advance the priority. since last november the fcc

empower companies to block calls from his phone numbers that do not or cannot originate calls such as invalid or unassigned phone numbers. this allows phone companies to block many scam calls for the even get to consumers. we are seeking public input on way to authenticate caller id information. it essentially gives phone numbers of verified digital fingerprint that would give every color recipient the competence to answer knowing a legitimate color was on the line. just yesterday they launched an initiative to explore the creation of a database for reassignment phone numbers, a measure that would reduce unwanted calls to consumers. the sec's focus hasn't been limited to the rulemaking side of the ledger alone. aggressive enforcement has been a key component of our strategy. we sent a very clear message that those who engage in illegal robo calls games will pay a price, literally. in 2017 the fcc proposed over

$200 million in fines against illegal robo colors including the largest single fine ever proposed in the history of this agency. i have also personally raised this issue with some of my foreign counterparts to enable our government to share information that is necessary to crack down on organized, illegal robo calling operations. but we all know that this is not enough and that is why we teamed up with the ftc, the consumer advocates and with the private sector to convene this policy forum. we are looking to you for guidance on the steps we've taken and what steps we need to take in the future in order to protect consumers. i should note as well that this event will not be a one that wonder. on april 203rd the fcc and the ftc will be cohosting an event again in a technology expo that will look at applications and technology to minimize or eliminate the number of unwanted robo calls consumers receive. the expo will be held in the

edison place gallery here in washington dc and we certainly hope that those here in the audience and those watching will be able to attend. with that, thank you again for joining us today. i have seen many of you and work with you over the past couple of years on this issue and i know that this has been an engaging and productive day and at the end of it, i am quite confident that we will all hang together in this fight. thank you for your attention and with that i turn it back to patrick to set us on our schedule. [applause] >> thank you, mr. chairman. our next featured speaker is ftc acting chairman ring will be delivering her remarks via prerecorded video. >> thank you for coming to today's rebel call for him. while i can't turn you in person i am thrilled that the ftc and the fcc are coasting this event

to explore the problem of illegal robo calls. we thank you to fcc chairman by and the staff who made this possible. like you i hate when my phone rings due to an illegal robo call. this problem isn't new but it doesn't seem to come in waves and in the late 2000 we saw that the calls were a growing problem in the ftc responded by amending the telemarketing sales roles to prohibit disaster or prerecorded sell calls. unfortunately, change in technology primarily the growth of voice over internet protocol they have nothing more than a

computer and an internet connection. each of these developments has made it easier and more profitable for robo colors to violate the law and harder for law enforcement to stop them that means more calls and negative effects for consumers. the ftc uses every tool at our disposal to combat the challenge of robo calls and aggressive law enforcement, initiatives to escort technological permission and robust consumer and business outreach. let me touch on each. the ftc's robo call and do not call enforcement program has two prongs: our first program target scams that uses robo calls to permit that cause injury to many infidels. for example, in 2017 consumer reported losing $290 million from prod traded over the phone. second,

are enforcement stop to companies responsible for more than 1 billion robo calls a year. in june 2017 the doj on behalf of the fcc and along with plaintiff obtain the largest penalty ever issued in the do not call case. $280 million

we are expanding the site to hang up on the robo calls. to the support of is part of that expanding fight that much more is to come. stay tuned and thank you. [applause] >> thank you to acting chairman. our next featured speaker is fcc

commissioner commissioner clybourn. [applause] >> good morning again everyone. thank you for allowing me to take part in today's conversation on combating illegal robo calls. i am pleased to see regulators, industry leaders and consumer groups come together to discuss the regulatory hurdles posed by these illegal calls that have annoyed countless consumers and scams and millions of americans. to put it plainly, robo calls are out of control and we have the consumer complaints to prove it. we each have had our encounters and robo calls so i think it is fair to say that we share the same feelings. the scenario is a common one. the phone rings and you pick it

up and then you notice that the distinct pause. you sigh because with in seconds that recording offering you a free vacation to the caribbean comes across the phone. now when experiencing a mid-march blizzard in dc is more attractive than an offer to the caribbean we all know we have a problem and increasingly however these nuisance calls are coming from spoof numbers and from seemingly familiar numbers. advancements in technology have enabled robo calls at a scale we simply have not seen before. techniques used by robo callers are becoming increasingly sophisticated. they have even experienced it with artificial intelligence

that allows the robots to hold convincing conversations. according to the latest report that the chairman might have touched this and you know this to that 2.7 billion of those calls were placed nationwide, just last month. equally remarkable is that for phone numbers are responsible for more than 68 million of these calls and given the severity of the problem the fcc and ftc along with industry stakeholders and all of you we are coming together to create clear enforceable rules and encourage the creation of smart, private sector solutions. i agree fully with the conclusion of the robo calls strike test scores that robo calls our best addressed in a holistic manner. deployment of a wide variety of

tools by a broad range of stakeholders. this is why i particularly hard to see portion of today's events devoted to solutions and tools for consumers. while i believe the fcc can and must do more to evade this persistent nuisance there is room for third parties and all stakeholders to create resources to empower consumers. i admire industry efforts to develop caller id authentication and the work of businesses providing blocking services that marble low desert you know anything, i know i'm a set up i'm sorry, i'm in another plane right now. the robo calls are driving me crazy. [laughter] effort such as these highlight their is room and the need for new innovative solutions. i won't be surprised if the

parties in this room will be key. i look forward to the support the conversations today and i stand ready as always to work with you in support of policies and initiatives that put consumers first. thank you again. [applause] >> thank you, commissioner clybourn. you start our first panel and that is going to be moderated by michael caldwell. she special counsel in my office in the consumer and governmental affairs bureau at the fcc. the panel is entitled challenges facing consumers and industry today. i invite the palace to come up and mike.

>> good morning everyone. i am pleased to be here and paste welcome for our first panel. i will let them introduce themselves and then we get started. michelle. >> i michelle and a former consumer protection g from ohio attorney general's office. eleven years ago i started a law firm with three other consumer protection chiefs and a former ohio attorney general. while i'm here representing the industry at heart i would consider myself a consumer advocate as well. i'm here in my capacity as general counsel with the professional assault the customer engagement. case is the only industry, nonprofit association that is dedicated solely to contact centers that placed calls to consumers and businesses and use multiple talents for contacting

consumers and businesses the telephones, text message, social media, chat in those type of avenues. >> good morning. my name is kevin, vice president of law and policy for us health and the broadband association. our member companies represent, you know, traditional wireline broadband companies from small world providers to some of the largest providers in the country. robo calls has been a priority issue for our member companies and over the last several years and i'm thrilled to be here and i want to think chairman pai and the acting chair for bringing this important form together. i do want to reiterate something

that chairman pai said that i wholeheartedly agree with. this is a joint effort. this is something that industry consumer groups, government and we all have to operate and work together on this issue and i do feel having worked on this issue over the last several years i do feel there is a tremendous amount of unity with all of those sectors removing in the same direction and in the right direction i'm looking forward to talking about everything that has been going on. >> ed, with call for action. i'll start by echoing kevin's appreciation to fcc and f tc leadership and staff organizing today's events and look forward to participating. it's a nonprofit network that partners with media outlets and cities of the country to set up volunteer staff consumer hotlines. over the past couple of years it has been interesting in terms of

robo calls because can't do mediation to get people resolutions but what we have seen is our office contract where the predictive dialers are calling so one day our colorado springs office might get a rash of irs related scams and nothing the next day and then it is on to atlanta or different area of the country where we have a consumer health helping. it's been a unique situation in terms of the spike of traffic and for networks the robo calls produce but it's also been fascinating to watch how some of this has evolved based on what we are hearing from consumers. another hat that i have is a great pleasure and opportunity to are currently is that of chairing the sec's consumer advisory commission and kevin and i currently cochair the robo calls working group on that advisory committee and over the past year and a month or so of our term we had three recommendations and they all had a number of different action items for the fcc to pursue and i'm very happy to say that the commission and commission staff have been working very closely

with our membership to make a lot of those action items come to fruition and become a reality so that has been exciting, to. >> thank you for being here this morning. let's go ahead and get started with our panel. the first panel is about challenges facing consumers and industry and the intent of the panel is to set the foundation for the other two panels that come later this morning that we will get into the details about each of these areas. i think want to scratch the surface with this first panel and give an overview of the problem as we see it. the first question that i have and i will directed to both ed and kevin, i read an article in "the new york times" that robo call is getting worse and so i'd like to get your perspective on that and what is the extent of the robo calls problem and is getting better or worse custom

customer. >> sure. i think "the new york times" is pretty spot on with the sense that it is getting worse and the ftc numbers definitely bear that out. i think in 2017 they showed 4.5 million complaints and in 2163.4. the complaint numbers are rising by over a million complaints a year. that bears out if you go back even further in the statistics. that is despite the fact that there are so many tools and resources for consumers on the market. at&t announced yesterday were recently that they have blocked 3.5 alien calls and i know my cell phone provider t-mobile tells me scam likely when my phone rings and i'm not going to answer that. there are tools out there causing consumers to not have to deal this and yet complaints are still on the rise. i think the only conclusion we can reach is that numbers are going up and losses are going up. consumer unit report that this is a $9.5 billion cost to our economy in the money lost through these scams and vocals.

>> kevin. >> yeah, so, i would echo a lot of what ed said there and a couple of things. i don't think it's any surprise that robo calls are the number one consumer complaint at both the fcc and the ftc. we have heard a lot of numbers thrown out there whether it's 2.5 billion last month or 2.1 or 2.7 and i don't know the number is i don't think anyone can say with certainty what the number is but it's a lot of calls and it's too many. i think this has been an ongoing problem over the last several years and as i said the number one consumer complaint but at the same time i do think it is important that there has to note that there has been a lot of good progress on this front for consumers and there are a lot of good things that are happening

out there and in the time i've been working on this issue, you know, five or six years, you know, one of the things that you are seeing that you hear a lot about today there are more tools available to consumers today and there are an increasing number of tools that are available across multiple platforms, wireline, voice, et cetera and that's a good thing. there is more partnering taking place so in other words you are seeing the fcc past the order last month that gives carriers the ability to block categories of calls and that is a good thing. you are hearing about at&t that is blocked 3.5 billion calls. those are 3.5 billion fewer calls that we were able to connect with consumers and that is a good thing.

there is progress being made on things like shaken and mr. where you have seen standards adopted and they were accelerated by six months because of the industry leading strikeforce going testing. that is not to say that everything is great. there is a lot of work that still needs to be done and it still is the number one consumer complaint but i just think it is important that we not lose sight of progress being made and i think it's incumbent upon all of us to continue to move in that direction. >> if i could just ahead one thing, you overlay with the increase in consumer complaints about robo call and the comments the fcc received from industry on this issue and what we are also experiencing recently is a significant rise in a call completion not occurring. industry has testified to provide information to the fcc that says we have seen a drop of

about 20-30% from legitimate businesses in america as a result of the calling and labeling that is occurring and while the industry wholeheartedly supports taking a strong stance against robo calls which are to the detriment of legitimate businesses as well they want t we have to be mindft we are proceeding word in our zeal to eliminate robo calls that there are effects to legitimate businesses that also have to be considered. >> thank you, michelle. very true. it's not that were all in agreement that it is increasing problem and there are more tools available now than ever but what is leading to increased despite the fact that there have been these positive developments -- why are we seeing more and more robo calls? kevin, could you speak to that as well?

>> sure, i think the chairman hit the nail on the head when she talked about that. she noted the two things. you have advances in technology and the way i look at it you had industry in his transition to it enabled networks and you have what i refer to as the merging of the internet with the public switched telephone network. because of that you created kind of a vehicle whereby it's much easier to check those calls into the network. the second piece of that that i think is important to note is chairman noted that it is extremely cheap to make phone calls. we're talking in fractions of a penny. that has created this environment where you can generate a tremendous amount of phone calls at minimal cost.

so, that's one of the key factors that contributed to this and the other factor that is committed to this is the fallibility of caller id. caller id is very, very easy to spoof. that is what the scammers are doing. they are able to spoof these numbers and to create a false sense of trust amongst consumers that might, you know, compel them to pick up the phone or make them more inclined to pick up the phone. as i said before, the good news there is that the industry has developed standards to accelerate both the standards by six months and they're going to testing and it's this host against her standard and best practices that you have heard about and one of the important things and there's a couple of important things to note about shake and start, that will help to reintroduce trust into the

caller id system so when that number says here is who is calling that is who is calling. an important thing to note and michelle hit on this we talk about robo calls but i really like to focus on illegal robo calls because michelle is right, there is a lot of legitimate traffic that gets thrown under this robo call on bella things like school closings, doctor reminders, calls from companies that you have relationships with. we want to basically separate those and get rid of the illegal robo calls and help valid, legitimate robo calls or calls to get through and caller id can do that and it cannot educated and it could help to do that. >> i would add to another thing that is driving this is the success rate. the people who are making these

calls are getting a monetary payout so it is worth their while to keep this going. kevin pointed out that cost less than a penny to place these calls and when you calculate some of the fines that have been issued and divided by the number of calls that were placed the fines are less than a penny every call so you're looking at a scenario where between the cost of making the call and the potential fine you are still spending less than a penny for every call to perpetrate these scams on consumers and to swindle them out of money. i think that's a huge driving factor and why this continues and one of the reasons we started to talk recently about maybe there should be a criminal element here with people spending time in prison as a consequence for the scam calls they are making. >> ed literally took the words out of my mouth. i could not agree with that more. a couple of other things -- we

collectively come industry, whether it's voice providers or all the different, you know, companies like you mail, we want to and i think we are making it more expensive and more challenging for these illegal actors to make calls. in other words, the more costly you make it for them to try to carry these things out it makes it less profitable and at the end of the day i want to remove that component. but i do have to echo what ed said. i would strongly support an industry that would be ready to partner with partners in the federal government on helping to identify these bad actors and bring criminal enforcement. >> i thank you have criminal penalties already and if people are perpetrating frauds there would be crimes that apply to that so i think there are the

tools they are for those types of telephone calls. as we are looking at eliminating the robo calls again something we all support and all are aligned with and as we are looking at the members of the industry being affected by the calling and labeling it's important that two things happen in this echo system that now exists with blocking and labeling. it's very important that legitimate businesses know if their phone numbers are being called or labeled. currently there doesn't exist an easy mechanism for legitimate callers to identify that that is happening. there is currently technology in place that would provide an intercept code for businesses to receive notice that their calls are being blocked and i think it's a workable solution for notifying businesses and also for companies that are notified

that there are calls are being labeled or blocked they need an easy remediation route so that they can contact somebody and you need to understand that the companies are being blocked a legitimate company that is invested significantly in complying with the t cpa or the tsr right now they could have a number of different parties that he would have to contact in one of my who telecom characters that are out could have one of the many analytic companies and other service providers and there is no easy mechanism for legitimate business to contact someone and rectify a situation where calls are being wrongfully blocked and legitimate calls are being wrongfully blocked or labeled. we encourage that as the sec and ftc are moving forward looking for solutions. >> just to put a fishing point on that. i do think it's important to note that telecom have conducted

industry collaborative workshops and efforts to address that issue. that's an important issue. making sure that these legitimate caller originators can get problems text. that is something my sense is that is something that all sectors of the industry are invested in and committed to. >> thank you for that. did you have something else, michelle? >> i would just ahead is the board that would be an important consideration. we have been meeting with industry groups and consumer advocates and with telecom carriers and service providers for a year now without a solution and i want to put an emphasis on the fact that the need for this to happen quickly is paramount important. >> michelle, could you tell us more about we've been purchasing

on the illegal robo calls problem but you speak from the perspective of someone who represents the industry that is trying to reach consumers that is legitimate robo calls. like to talk about the benefits that consumers get from calls from your organizations that you represent. >> sure. but the legitimate businesses and the good actors out there the technology that we have available to reach a number of people in a short period of time is a very good thing. there are a lot of types of calls that consumers and businesses want to receive using this technology for things like important reminders and service delivery reminders, pharmacy refill reminders and the school closing and there are a number of different good reasons and good uses for this type of technology. if you can call more efficiently in the murky world that people

have requested and given their consent to be called that's more efficient process then consumers as well so there are a lot of great applications for the technology but the unfortunate reality is the same good technology for legitimate industry has become a weapon that been used to be a scourge to american citizens for these illegal calls that are happeni happening. those types of calls billy need to be distinguished from legitimate calls that consumers who want to see those calls. >> from the industry perspective, kevin, what are the challenges that the providers run into when it comes to trying to decipher between a legitimate calls and illegal robo calls? >> on that point i think there are a couple of different points to note. i always break down when you are looking at industry sectors that are operating in the space you have the fcc's order that authorized voice providers to conduct blocking basically the

network level on four categories of calls. those are discrete narrowly defined categories and it's do not originate and invalid numbers and unassigned or unallocated numbers. in that category you have what are basically identifiable numbers that can be blocked. when you start looking at the other industry sectors like first to arrive, you mail, there is broader latitude for the categories calls that they can block. i know having participated in a lot of these industry forums they put tremendous effort into looking at multiple characteristics to make sure that when they do find that call or score that call that they get it right.

i do think michelle is right that even in that instance we do want to make sure that there is a mechanism whereby when in an instance of false positive arrive that can be addressed and then it can be resolved ugly and efficiently and there is a lot of different ways that you can go with that. that is a lot of the discussion that is happening. i know us telecom we had one initial workshop in october this year to discuss this exact issue and we have scheduled a second for may 4th here in washington dc and i know pace has similar efforts going on but i think this is a commitment to move in that direction to develop industry solutions to make sure we get a right. >> i would say, i think, too, we are in an agreement that illegal

robo calls need to be stopped but the prevalence of an volume of the illegal calls but consumers in this position of frustration but consumer advocates and sec chair and ftc chair people in the position of saying just hang up the phone or don't answer the call if you don't recognize the number. it does create a scenario where it is difficult for calls that have valuable information like a potential school closing to break through. having said that i do think that when a consumer makes a conscious choice for a product or service offering like a that is an exercise of choice on their part and they are saying i am entrusting this other group to make certain screening decisions me. it's important for those groups engaging in that to be clear and transparent about what they are offering and what could potentially be caught in the net so that consumers are making an

informed consent choice when they decide to enroll for something like that. i do think we can't overlook that this is one way that consumers are exercising some choice about the types of interactions they want to receive. >> thank you, ed. i'd like to talk a little bit about the solution some more and one of the things that factors into this information sharing and one of the things that they mentioned putting the complete data out there so that their party applications can use it for their call blocking and filtering solutions but is there other types of information sharing the could be going on in the private sector and in providers to help develop products and more solutions for consumers? >> on the information sharing i think, you know, i applaud what the fcc and the ftc have done in

sharing that information. previously that information was being released on a monthly basis and is now on a daily basis. but, at the end of the day timeliness on this information is key especially for the analytics developers who are scoring these algorithms. that is a critical component when you consider these illegal robo callers are oftentimes changing the numbers that they are speaking every ten minutes or every hour. that information sharing is good. we fully support that type of information sharing and another area that i would point out that is important information sharing is us telecom has what is called the trans fat group which is 23 voice providers and these are cable, wireless, wireline,

wholesale providers and we act in a cooperative manner to basically share call information in order to trace back illegal robo calls. i do think that type of sharing that is a form of information sharing that is crucial because, you know, i'm a big believer that when you can trace those calls back to their source and identify who was originating those calls you were taking those calls at the root. you're not trying to swat flies if the consumer and by labeling or blocking an individual call. you are pulling it out at the source. that type of information sharing is something that i think is within the industry should be encouraged and should be supported and we certainly

support broad participation in this type of sharing. we can more easily identify where these calls are coming from. >> [inaudible] >> exactly. get on that. >> michelle, did you have something to add? >> we support the information sharing obviously also from the fcc and ftc and that is valuable information and companies have access to that information so they have the ability to look up their phone numbers to see if they are showing up on that database as a database that is receiving the complaint. there's huge value in those types of lists and again, i reiterate the importance of his company's telephone numbers are being blocked we really need a way of knowing that and been able to rectify a system we are blocking where labeling is happening in a way that is appropriate.

>> kevin. >> can i add one more thing? one other factor that i point out that is important especially how we teed up this conversation about the number of complaints being perceived by the ftc and the fcc and, you know, that information sharing also goes from some of these deployed scoring in labeling services to the f tc and sec's complaint mechanisms. in other words, that may be a source of some of the increase in consumer complaints is that you have consumers were now empowered with consumer tools and those tools are reporting to the ftc and providing, you know what i think is real timely, accurate information so that it benefits the broader good, both in terms of enforcement and making existing tools that much more accurate.

>> i was going to say consumers are eager to participate in data sharing as well. if you look at if you google the number that shows up on the phone you can hit ten different results that are going to tell you what the call has been and what would have -- when they gone these calls it comes as were pleased that they want to get those numbers are down and they want to both that this person doesn't harm or stand someone else so there's an eagerness to participate where it is appropriate as well. >> i would even say it from the former regulator simply when we receive complaints and especially in today's environment when marketing and app to send a complaint directly to a regulatory agency oftentimes the consumer is not aware of who is calling and they don't know the content of the call so there is a likelihood of many false positives that are happening throughout the complete process. having said that i still find it valuable information for companies if their phone numbers

are being recorded that they have the abilities to look at the numbers and that they're doing something that is not affecting what they want is to have a positive consumer or business interaction. those types of databases are help. >> the clock says we have one minute left but i see our next speaker is already here and in an effort to keep us on time i think we should wrap up here. thank you all for being here today and for offering your perspectives on this issue. i appreciate your time. [applause] >> thank you, mike. >> thank you to micah and our panel one panelist. our next featured speaker is fcc commissioner brandon carr. [applause]

>> thank you everyone for taking the time to be here at this important discussion that we are having today. thank you for the chance to say a few words. as a consumer i appreciate all the work that industry, consumer groups, federal government, state government is putting into this. my very first meeting as an fcc commissioner was in september of last year and i sat right over here and during the meeting my phone went off and branca forgot to put it on silent and it was, of course, a robo call and my colleagues called me out for it. i got off to the wrong foot this new job but hopefully that won't happen again and we had taken action to address that stuff. trying to address this issue of robo calls is a complicated task technically, under the law and that is why it is so great were seen the partnerships today from the ftc and the fcc and from industry consumer groups.

it will take continued, sustained effort along all of these friends to continue to make progress on these issues but over the past year the fcc for instance we have finally elevated robo calls to our top enforcement priority. that is a good thing. right now consumers receive perhaps 98 million robo calls a day or roughly a thousand robo calls a second. at the fcc we get about 200,000 complaints about robo calls a year and obviously not every protocol you get for every person to get multiple ones will file a complaint at the fcc so you can extrapolate significantly upwards from that to get the sense of the scope of the problem. we need to continue to work with all stakeholders to be creative about identifying about implementing solutions and taking aggressive enforcement action. the fcc was already working on a

number of runs and as you may have discussed already today, i think the estimates are somewhere around 38 million numbers are reassign a year so you can give someone permission to call you and that number is subsequently reassigned to another person and they end up getting spammed from callers even though they didn't give their permission to receive it. we took about yesterday to try to move down the path of reassign numbers database and explore other ways to solving this one piece problem. the pain is another issue that i'm sure a lot of you are running into and i get it a lot. you see phone number and may reflect the same exchange is your cell phone number and it rings a bell that maybe it someone you know and you pick it up and that's another issue we've been taking asset action on. in november of last year we adopted rules that will give phone companies greater stability to block calls that are likely fraudulent do do

their originating number and call authentication is another area where working on in the commission. in july of last year we launched a proceeding that to facilitate methods of authenticating a true source of phone call and we heard a little bit about that in the last panel that is one great worway to get at the root of the problem. the ip networks phone calls coming in it can be difficult to fully trace back where the actual call originated from and that has been stopping some of our enforcement actions so with industry effort and technological progress we will continue to work on the effort as well. finally, the enforcement site. at the fcc last couple months we've been issuing it some of the largest fines in sec history against illegal robo calling which will hopefully stop some of the most abusive practices we are seeing and send the right signal to community that the fcc

is very serious and the ftc is serious and state actors are serious about taking aggressive action against those that are initiating unwanted robo calls. there is more work to do but the fcc, ftc, state and industry partners we are all committed to taking action and we hear from consumers what a problem this is and we understand the scope and nature and the difficulty it is for us to solve it but we are committed to moving forward and welcome to today's event. we look for additional ideas in identifying problem areas and with that, i'll move off the stage and let the experts continue the discussion. i look forward to the continued efforts of these types of groups and see where the fcc will continue to take action to protect consumers. thank you. [applause]

>> thank you, commissioner car. the second panel is entitled recent regulatory and enforcement efforts. it is moderated by tom paul, acting director of the ftc bureau of consumer protection. i invite tom and the panelist to please come up. i will turn it over to tom. thank you.

>> all right. good morning everyone. i'm tom paul and the acting director of the ftc's bureau of consumer protection and i'm thrilled to be here today what we can do to combat unwanted and unlawful robo calls. in our first panel we heard a lot about the prevalent extent nature of the unwanted robo calling problem that we have in the united states. i think that was very appropriate and a great way for us to get started in looking at these issues. unfortunately, our next bill here is going to talk about what state and federal government officials have been doing with the can do and what they like to do to deal with robo call problems. and fortunately we haven't experienced in esteemed group of panelists today to help walk us through what the government is doing and what challenges the government basis and what their plans are for the future to try to deal with illegal robo calls. maybe i can go through and have each of our panelists briefly

say who they are and where they are from in what organization they represent. let's start with christie thompson. >> good morning everybody. christie thompson, but i like to think of myself as the fcc robo call enforcer that is the subject nearest and dearest to my heart. i lead a team of about 40 analysts in attorneys and our number one focus is on consumer protection and of consumer protection right now the biggest issue is, of course, stopping illegal robo calls. >> thank you. >> mark stone, deputy chief in the ftc's consumer bureau and i work on robo calls, policy and rulemaking perspective and absolutely robo calls, illegal robo calls, are a top priority. we are busy. >> i measurement, special counsel in the policy division of the competition bureau and one of the issues we are working

on is call authentication and trust anchorage. ... >> within that office of the consumer protection division we are charged with the civil enforcement of the trade deficits act along with other state and federal related acts. the attorney general is deeply committed to fighting of illegal robo calls. there's enough or for investigators to keep us busy.

>> thank you to our panelists for being here today. some folks have started to do this. i like our panelists to talk about was statute or regulation their organization and forced her influence. one thing that's valuable is there are legal restrictions in place and try to get a sense of how those interact with one another. perhaps we can go through the panelists and talk about what their organization implements in terms of statutes and regulations so we can get an idea of the overall federal and state enforcement scheme looks like. >> that's a hazard of being on the end. the fcc has two main provisions of the communication act

relevant for robo calls. the first is the to cpa which governs prerecorded calls and has been the subject of litigation since it was adopted by congress and 91. the second important provision is the truth and caller id act of 2009. the it that's the act that says it's unlawful to spruce or falsify the caller id information if the purpose is to defraud, calls harm or wrongfully obtain something of value. that dovetails with each other nicely. there's a number of illegal robo calls and the callers, the worst of the worst were trying to defraud consumers you spoofing

is a way to hide from law-enforcement and exercising their right to pursue legal remedies and courts on the consumer level. and to hide from our carrier allies trying to locate these guys and block them. it's very important for us that we exercise both of those to the fullest extent. that's what i do 247. over looking at cases. that's our toolbox. >> i also work a lot on the consumer protection act. i know rubble call is the term under the tcp a rules and just to say not all robo calls are

bad i think we heard that a lot want to express their consent. nevertheless the rules defined illegal robo calls probably for landline phones that are pre-recorded and are also telemarketing. wireless is different, it's calls we have prerecorded voice messages are made with an autodialer. it doesn't matter if there telemarketing or not. so there's some distinction if it's between a landline or not. we also work on the truth of caller id act. >> i don't think there's additional statutes to will talk about the standards later.

>> from the federal trade commission we can reach the legal calls under our main act with a discrete set of rules that govern telemarketing which was amended effective 2009 to prohibit virtual virtually all robo calls unless the consumer has given express written permission to that seller to receive a rubble call. this is a regulatory scheme because the consumer does not have to be on the national do not call registry for the call to be illegal. the difference between the fcc regulatory scheme is the definition of what is telemarketing. for us it has to be the sale of a good or product or solicitation of a donation. informational calls are not covered.

when michelle said the doctor's office called are those are not telemarketing. one additional point on coverage, calls that you somber technology which we see used by for-profit tele- funders the soliciting charitable donations, they consider those robo calls and are not permitted. thank you. >> our primary authority calls from the florida telemarketing act that we can enforce in court. we have the ability to enter into federal court and enforce provisions and we partnered and have obtained very successful results. >> from what we've heard from

chairman and what we've heard about different priorities certainly dealing with robo calls is at the top of the agenda federal and state like to hear about any actions or initiatives that you have to deal with unlawful calls including partnerships with each other or with industry, working with consumer advocates. are there new actions or initiatives that you've undertaken that you like to highlight for the folks in attendance? >> we've heard talk about a commission decision last november and that was one of the first time dave said that the voice service providers are our partners. if we can stop them before they reach consumers that's a win.

in november lester they said they can block calls that are highly likely to be illegal. the commission specified three categories of spoof calls where found no legitimate robo call would be spoofing the numbers. it's a do not originate type and number. think about the irs skin with a say they don't make any calls from this number. the second category are calls with caller id an invalid like a zero zero area code. finally numbers that might be legitimate but have not been allocated or assigned. no reason a legitimate caller

would want to make those calls. the commission in november said voice providers may although they don't have to block these calls before they reach consumers. >> they're looking at other objectives that could be likely to indicate a call is illegal. for example someone spoofs my phone number and then a voice provider sees my numbers making a million robo calls. that's probably not me so were developing a record round that. you want to make sure that my ability to make calls is not compromised. >> i'm glad you asked that question. this morning we filed a case against a massive rubber caller. engaged in making millions of robo calls including calls to consumers whose numbers are on the do not call registry and using deceptive tactics.

i suspect there's not a single person in this room have not received that phone call. another case tackling what we identify as kingpins whether the dialers are voice blasters hosting the calls and pushing them out with the main sellers we brought a series of the cases. they're well known in industry. and our job has been to strategically target them and identify them and imposes much release that we can.

some of the defendants settled then are banned from selling home systems. in other instances trying to achieve a civil penalty amount. one defendant paid $300,000. the state of florida has been a tremendous partner in the fraudulent telemarketing cases which cause enormous economic injury. we have partnerships with her international colleagues who suffer the same impact of these awful telemarketing calls. >> one thing we are interested in helping alone is industry effort to implement, shaken and stir. you've heard about this but the idea is a carrier or phone

company can assign the phone calls as it's being made. it's a way for them to vouch for it to say this is actually coming from the number says. they're able to include that signature on it. when it's received the phone company who will terminate the call or the consumer themselves can make that decision to determine what to do knowing that either they know it's from where they say or cannot be vouch for. that leaves any person along the chain the ability to make those decision. so the consumer could receive this information say there's no vouching for this and i will not accept the call.

it also indicates where it would allow enforcement to trace back and find most people easier with the fcc wants to do is make sure that the standards have been developed or being tested right now we want to make sure this process continues to move forward and can be the floyd broadly and quickly. >> so we have a record open on this. the north american council is currently consulting on ways to make sure we can set up the structure necessary to coordinate collaborate. >> the florida attorney

general's office has a special unit if we get a consumer complaints we can reach out and communicate about what the consumer has said and try to have that phone number stopped. these robo colors are sophisticated and change their phone numbers on a consistent basis. we work with other agencies in our communication with new sca scams. they're changing especially those that target veterans and senior citizens. also other groups that are sensitive and vulnerable to be scams. >> thank you. one question is the difference between unlawful robo calls a awful ones. what you organizations do to try to treat these calls differently in your work?

>> it's easier to differentiate between fraudulent calls it. high pressure sales tactic, the offers going ten soon and then later he couldn't cancel and get a refund and i couldn't get in contact with any good or service. so it's starting out those that are the fraudulent robo calls from legitimate businesses. >> i mentioned us providing providers to block the calls at the same time call completion of all legitimate calls is also important. we encourage voice providers to have a mechanism in place to identify false positives.

nobody wants your kids school robo call to get blocked. you've heard today that we want to make sure robo calls made by legitimate callers desired by consumers are still made and received. the fact that i give up my phone number to someone else should not mean that i stop getting the ones that i consented to. so that's a big part to make sure that they get to the right people even as we move forward. >> i one -underscore the definition of telemarketing is different. the school calls and doctor calls are not telemarketing or robo calls another illegal for purposes with the federal trade commission act. that's not what were doing any law enforcement, nor would we.

we also don't distinguish the tween a call to a wireline or a wireless one. those are not relevant distinctions. the world of industry robo calls that are legitimate is a very near fairly narrow slice. the fcc has no interest chilling that world. >> that's right. that is tracks what we see on the fcc side as well to think that they could drawing more than the most abusive types of robo calls. we have the prosecutorial

discretion to decide what cases to take. me and my enforcement attorneys are not interested in taking cases against school districts that may be calling more than they should. we don't have time or resources to police nonproblematic robo calls. we look at what are the consumers telling us are problematic. that's where we were focus our efforts. thus the irs and the microsoft scams. my favorite is the carpet cleaning roofing scams. were going after the worst of the worst because they need the most attention immediately. >> what is the most important and significant challenge your organization faces and dealing with the illegal robo calls.

>> spoofing is the gasoline on the robo calling fire. it allows illegal robo calls to thrive and spread. it makes it very difficult for me to find the bad guys and take action. thus most significant challenge for us going through the process of identifying where they come from. it's a laborious enforcement process. we have to send a daisy chain of subpoena these. there is no identifier we can trust in the call stream information. that's changing, which i'm very glad. with the standards that are being rolled out. another significant change in the last five years has been folks like u.s. telecom have

gotten together there trace back group and are working together cooperatively to save me for example five or six steps in the subpoena process. the group of carriers sharing information and tracing back the call as far as they can before letting us know when referring it to us means numerous carriers in the chain that i don't have to contact to subpoena or try to get information from because they have already done that work. that has been helpful. i couldn't be happier with our continued partnership will not front. >> i totally agree on what industry is done in trace back has been helpful. when you have a spoof number what you do and how do you work with it?

every month we have upwards of 400,000 reports about unwanted calls. not that everyone is illegal but one can probably pursue the vast majority are every business they were putting on the public record consumer reports of 18000 phone numbers. that's a lot of information out there is a lot of potential targets to work with. the challenge with law-enforcement in this area as we all have limited resources. how do targets here getting the biggest bang for the buck? one challenge has been telemarketing from abroad we see this in the irs scams. from microsoft or dell, your computer is infected. we met several times in india with indian authorities and

stakeholders and had a series of meetings here. we've been successful in shutting down some of the operations with the indian authorities and particularly the department of justice here. there's a crackdown and fall of 2016. there are ways to try to combat the illegal telemarketing from abroad. >> the challenge for us is will return our policy lens to a robo caller spoofing and try to get a bead on that. they we hear about neighbor spoofing all the time. that's a challenge to us. it's gratifying to see so many folks coming together. we've never work better with industry and with their federal partners. residue consumer outreach.

say were trying to help in trying to prevent illegal robo calls. and to make sure that you can trust want a phone number pops up. you know who that is and you can pick it up. also if you are unsure about the caller to hang up in google the phone number. a big part of this is talking to consumers and letting them know their best methods to protect themselves. >> i echo everything the panel has said about spoofing, the international presence and there's also the component of locating the actual room where the calls are coming from. in central florida we have conducted immediate access cases where we enter the telemarketing room and we actually see the

telemarketers set up and we see the network system that have been built in. finding them is a challenge because they create a web and web of shell companies. >> the d.c. circuit issued a decisions ruling on a number of object students of a 2015 order clarifying aspects of the tcp a bar against automatic dialing devices. >> am wondering if some of our colleagues could briefly describe what the d.c. circuit held and if the panelists could speak on if the decision will have an impact the governments ability to go with unwanted robo calls are not. >> were still digesting.

was complex but at high level they ruled on a couple of things. the fcc interpretation which is relevant and also the fcc's of reassign numbers issue and finally consents. there is one other issue. they said that the past fcc decision was flawed. that was the big headline from the decision. secondly they reverse the past commissions decisions including the one call safe harbor including when the caller had one call to find out the number had been reassigned generally that impelled the past decision finding that consumers have a right to go past consent. the decision is somewhat

complex. some of things we've taken are not based on any decision or interpretation. the court noted favorably the reassigned numbers initiative voted on yesterday. caller id authentication and call blocking don't depend on any specific interpretation. i think these other efforts would proceed the largest couple of cases we have looked at in the past year than the notice of apparent liability were based on the truth in caller id, and on the pc pa which was the focus of the court's action in its most recent decision. in terms of putting folks like

adrian out of business, doesn't really affect our work to enforce the spoofing laws. even the court's decision for making illegal robo calls but they were included in the prerecorded voice message. sunder that the autodialer issue that was the key focus of the decision doesn't enter into that. we feel confident we will continue to bring cases. especially when those mass prefers a mess robo colors are engagement spoofing which violates a separate statute. you'll see more from us even after this decision. >> thank you. let's turn to some possible solutions to overcoming the challenges folks on the panel

have mentioned. changes in the law brother statute or regulation to be helpful to you in your efforts when dealing with unlawful robo calls? and whether you think there's changes in statute or regulation that you think could be helpful and if so, how? >> pierced to see his butt on record now for repeal of the common carrier exemption. it doesn't make sense in this day and age. it doesn't pedal or hinder our ability to go after some bad actors out there, particularly in the reselling markets where we see specific carriers that are hosting robo caller's that are placing illegal calls. we also encounter instances

where if they're not actual carriers will report to be carriers. so it raises our enforcement costs going after them. >> the fcc has been on record for a couple of improvements that would help in terms of enforcement. one is that we have a one-year statute of limitations so extending that to two years instead of one would be helpful. previously we talked about the difficulty in finding the back ice when these spoof numbers. and all of the bad guys do it. patches slows down our ability to find them which means from a practical perspective several months like abide. even in four notified of the robo call the day after it happened.

it will take us some time to figure out where it came from and identify and untangle the nest of shell companies pay close mentioned. that eats into the one-year statute of limitations. seems like a long time but from enforcement it isn't. . . it is not an authorization holder, permit, or license holder of the fcc with a maximum enforcement action that we can take against that rowboat color is to send them a citation which is effectively illegal warning letter, don't do this in the future or you will get in trouble. purpose for that as an active by congress was to make sure that the folks who aren't especially

well versed don't get swept up into some of the more nuanced portions of the communications act which makes sense but at this point it is so well known that robo calls are a problem and the target that we are going after are so clearly and obviously intentionally violated the law that having a warning letter at the outset is really frustrating and would be helpful as congress did in the spoofing context to exempt that part of the medications act from the citation requirement. >> thank you. one thing folks have noted is that many of the bad actors and their assets are located abroad. one of the impediments to proceeding against foreign-based actors and other things that can

be done to overcome those obstacles and maybe we can ask louis to respond to that first. >> well, through the safe web act we have lots of tools that can use to seek to have entities located offshore so we can issue process and do parts of an investigation and honestly where there are assets of sure that gets incredibly, skated and we tend though to see even in the indian telemarketing operations that are targeting us citizens and canadians and others we often see something in the us and something that we can freeze as part of a federal court proceeding and in some instances we have defendants who for a variety of reasons are willing to repatriate at the federal located offshore so we had a fair amount of success but there

is no question this is a challenging area. >> in terms of shaken and stirred it should be possible if countries have these systems in place they can coordinate them to work across borders what would be possible to have international calls be vouched as well. it does require more coordination and something we hope to see in the future. >> it has been very challenging when you identify a bad guy robo color and determine that they are operating overseas. i don't think it is any secret there are some countries that we have great relations in relationships with in terms of the united states as the great back and forth and cooperative relationship for law enforcement purposes and there are other countries for whom that is not the case and we have been

frustrated before raising back tracing calls to locations and countries that have a difficult or overly hostile with the united states because back to speaking there is very little chance that we will persuade the lawmakers in those jurisdictions to go after their citizens and with those investigations. it becomes frustrating but that is where cooperation with the ftc and other elements of the federal united federal government state department and other law and agencies becomes extremely vital to have that medication back and forth. >> i want to draw an input line and correct me if i am wrong but much of what i would call the abusive telemarketing where they are selling home alarm systems

and medical alert devices and energy solar panels i think most of that is emanating from the united states and what we are seeing -- in the kingpin telemarketer, rebel call might have a call center in the philippines and nicaragua in somewhere else but the core of that operation, the abuse of telemarketing operation, is in the united states where we see the international significant international issues is where we are seeing hard-core fraudulent telemarketing. >> thank you. another question and i heard a lot first panel about what industry is doing but i like to hear from each of the panelists as to what is the most important thing that the industry does to help you do your job and what could industry do or better to help you protect consumers from illegal robo calls and maybe we can start at this end with denise.

>> i mean, i think the most helpful information from private industry is helping us locate the originating phone calls and to not allow those massive robo calls to keep going through the carrier system but obviously the subpoena responses that we obtained from the company's in our investigation and i think more outreach and education to the consumers that the apps are available in certain things to avoid when you get these robo calls would be helpful and especially with those that are senior citizens. in the state of florida where we have a great consumer population of senior citizens they are not aware of the technology that is available and more trusting of people that call on the phone and speak to them and more likely to stand money for the scams and don't want to be rude and hang up the phone when they probably should. outreach and informants and they

have family members that the schools are out there and available would greatly assist us from our investment side. >> one word. innovate. do what you do best. it is just remarkable to see the proliferation and variety of call blocking technologies that have developed over the last several years and sitting from the ftc we are proud of the role we played in these technological developments starting in 2012 for the first rebel call challenge. when we look at people we visited recently it is wonderful to come in and tell us what you're doing and tell us how we can assist and the dynamic shift the marketplace from just a few years ago when it was call blocking is illegal and we can't do it and don't even say the word to now concerns with perhaps the unintended consequences of too much call

blocking. that is a dynamic marketplace and that is exactly what we want to see happy. >> i think the call authentication standards are industry developed and that is one of the great things that has been happening in this field. as for what can be done it is a matter of they have been developed and tested in a matter of being deployed as fully and quickly as we can get them out there. making sure that industry is working together with each other and coordinating properly to bring that out in these systems are going to be out there in usable to a wide variety. >> for us it's call blocking and we worked very well with industry and the telecom industry to encourage call blocking on objective basis so making sure that call blocking is arbitrary and based on good objective criteria and at the same time the fcc made call blocking optional and voluntary

and one thing we are interested in hearing is what is difficult about call blocking for some carriers is a cost issue or other issues and we like to see more carriers blocked based on the grounds that we said can block on and i think that's a big part of our work is how carriers the that in what may be some of the struggles they are facing. >> from my perspective from the enforcement inside the best thing that the carriers in industry have done for us in the last few years and can continue to do is work with us and continue to share information with us and continue to think of new ways to combat an ever evolving landscape of illegal activity. the fraudsters that we are up against our creative and highly

skilled and very adaptive. when you close off one way that they could and they will explore and expand into another way. that presents a challenge that will require 1% and industry in consumer groups all work together. in the space there is not one of those individuals pieces that have all of the answers or the ability to control the whole ecosystem and stop it. it really requires every consumers and government and industry all working together to solve the problem and to keep talking to each other about the new issues that are coming up when they come up so that we can tackle them immediately. >> thank you. one thing that has been mentioned a number of times on the panels is the value of partnerships whether that's federal federal, federal state, among government officials. if you talk about things that

are partners governmental partners could do better or differently in the future to be more effective. >> speaking for us i think we have developed a great relationship with federal trade commission. i think in my shop we do a lot of rulemaking in the ftc has been instrumental in offering great comments on how we might move forward. i think also doing outreach together is a really good idea. part of that i think the fcc has terrific outreach materials we do as well and making sure that consumers understand we are one federal government working for them would be great. a lot of times we get questions around whether to file a plate with the fcc or the ftc and is an opportunity for us to continue to work together. >> i think we do a pretty good job of it. i appreciate what mark says and the other panelists here but we

been working properly to with the fcc this issue for however long and estate partners have been tremendous and not just florida but we work through monthly calls on what is happening on the telemarketing front and it's a target rich environment so we all need to be at the table and we are all at the table. >> you know, working with federal trade commission has been a wonderful experience and going into federal court and getting the injunction and the asset freezes and having the receiver take over the business and try to get restitution for consumers we are on the ground and we are the boots on the ground that can conduct the surveillance and look into the maze of shell companies and big companies and trying to track down the money so we can seize it and ultimately get it to the consumers and provide injunctive release like a lifelong telemarketing ban or a fan against deceptive and

misrepresentations when it comes to selling goods and services over the telephone so i think the partnership with federal trade commission has been great. we are in communication with the federal communications commission to their targets some of them are located in were in constant vacation with our federal partners and we also work with our different state regulators in florida and we have the licensing arm of the telemarketing statues the department of agriculture and consumer services so we are constantly working with them to stop the robo calls and also where we share information with canada and other foreign countries and federal partners and without the various states. >> one question that comes out when i talk about consumer protection law is how we can work better with consumer advocates and other nonprofit organizations and nongovernmental organizations in the light. what is their role in dealing with unwanted robo calls, unaffordable calls and other

things that we could do better working with them to help consumers throw that out for any other panelists respond to. >> i see susan and mark morgan and i'm sure they have their own views but i do them as enormous resources. if i have questions about what is going on i asked them and if there is some particular, you know, push i'd like them to assist with i will readily turn to them and i hope and it's been my experience that they will do the same with us. they have the ability to reach people through pipelines that we don't and we rely on them to do just that. >> i would echo that. we rely tremendously on consumer groups to help us. a lot of our proceedings are paper proceedings and so we depend on their submission on legal and policy questions and

in addition to forming policy and law it's important that they are helpful in the average perspective that they help us get the word out on what we are doing but then we can do what consumers are experiencing every day so they are invaluable. >> consumer complaint drive what i do every day. we look at what consumers are talking about in what the problems they face. they filed complaints with us and file complaint minutes but the ftc and we don't believe in enforcing solutions for which there are no problems. we go after what consumers tell us what they need to go after. that is robo calls right now. what we hope to get the most out of consumer groups and out of consumers themselves is information at the actionable intelligence and actual intel, something enough information that can start an investigation

that solves the problem and find the bad guy that is making hundreds of millions of illegal robo calls. our work with consumer advocacy groups has been very helpful and we been able to say and explain this is what we need in consumer complaints in order for us to pick it up and start the process. it has been great how receptive consumer groups have been and working with folks who offer consumer solutions to the problem have feedback for us and others they have interfaced daily with consumers in their users and they can say hey we have these are the patterns piercing. those conversations help us help inform our enforcement efforts and make it make my job significantly easier. >> thank you. i guess we've got ten more

minutes left so i want to impose one last question and let people elaborate on that. the question is if each panelist could identify what is most important thing the government could do to decrease the prevalence of unwanted or unlawful robo calls and perhaps we will start with duties this time in here from the panelist what is the most important thing we can do to decrease unwanted robo calls going forward? >> going after the kingpins of these industries that are very well known and their connectors and they connect the different businesses to each other and they are very sophisticated and constantly have scans that are evolving. really targeting those individuals and going against them with the full force of the law that we can with the tools we are provided in what remedies we are providing under the law. it causes a deterrent effect.

i remember we went into a medical and they were selling robo calls and they were calling nursing homes and other senior citizens that said this is john from shipping in a family member or friend recommended you and get this device and it's similar to a life alert and it someone else and the consumers thought my family member thanks i need this and it's free is the robo calls said let me give them that information but lo and behold they found out that the consumer was charged a monthly fee and they were never told of it and when you try to cancel they cannot. when we went into the room and saw the large telemarketing room with individuals on the phone with sophisticated filing systems at their computer and their fingertips and we heard from the business owners that their marketing cost for these robo calls were so cheap that there was no incentive to stop. but when we went in and went in with the receiver and the attorneys from the federal trade

commission along with our criminal they are with the apartment of agricultural services and have criminal powers but they came in with us and we showed them that we were very serious about stopping this and a lot of the telemarketers later told us that they didn't realize what they were doing was wrong because they were told something else from their bosses. it causes a deterrent when we go into these businesses and sees the personal assets in the business assets and later get a federal court order banning them from the industry and then it goes to the internet and these people can never find jobs or they're not permitted under the order but some will go out in the industry because that's all they know but they are now tagged with our lunches with effort and will cannot find a job in the industry. from top to bottom i think being aggressive with these robo colors and working with our partners and taking a stand does cause a deterrent effect and i've seen it firsthand.

>> those three prongs. one is the relentless law enforcement. i want to tease that out a bit when were talking about abuse of telemarketing, not the fraudulent. the dish network case was filed in 2009 and took years to get it litigated decision in the present spent $280 million penalty and i say this with the caveat that is is on appeal but, but the nature of the telemarketing set up there, the network and essentially even a seller saying i am not responsible for how my product is marketed or how might product is telemarketing. this is what we hear time and time again. you have the dialer says i don't know who is using my platform and how can i possibly know? it's easy to know. or you can have the reseller unwanted call, it's not me back

it's a home warranty or a vacation, whatever -- you have the affiliate and the person who is just doing the robo call that says press one if you want the home warranty saying i don't know what i am carrying on that and i don't know what the mechanism is. on law enforcement part of our job at the ftc is to push the case to develop cases like dish and i think the case you are referring to is like watch. again the same type of affiliate telemarketing network where you have the seller saying i'm not responsible for how my product is marketed. moving the case also there's greater clarity and greater deterrence is a top priority from where i sit. the other two areas are innovation, stirring technology, entering the market place is to develop the tools that are needed. third prong is always outreach in consumer education. will hear from that on the next

panel. the materials we put out our first rate and we partnered with fcc and partnered with the state and it the message is not just hang up to recognize but the message is also here is information on the great call blocking tools out there and here are the things you can do to protect your privacy. >> i've been here talking about effort to combat spoofing so feel free to accuse me of television but it's one the most important efforts. it does address the most egregious types of fraud and it provides information into the system that allows carriers, third-party developers, manufacturers and consumers of self to deal with these problems stand. i agree. the biggest thing is call on medication. in the interim we can facilitate call blocking and also to greater enforcement but in the end spoofing is a big part of the problem.

if you are third-party blocking there some dependent but it's a way to abate some of that. it's longer-term but it strikes me that that call id authentication is where everyone should be focused. >> yeah, i would echo the same thing. if you're in a tunnel, i'm in there with you. i one 100% agree. rolling out call authentication is, i think, going to make the biggest difference in the government's ability to stamp out illegal abuse of robo calling and also the ability of the carriers to exercise, you know, to aid their customers in blocking those calls that their customers also do not want. that is the biggest piece in the second piece is that in the meantime mark was alluding to

it's incumbent on all of us to continue to work together and bring the expertise that each one of us has in the consumers and government together to combat the problem while the technological upgrades are being completed. >> great. thank you very much. i think we are out of time and i want to thank all of our panelists for sharing their insights and information about all of the fabulous work they are trying to do to deal with illegal robo calls and thank you very much. [applause] >> thank you again, tom and all of our panels. for next featured speaker is ftc commissioner carol mcsweeney, commissioner mcsweeney.

>> what a polite audience. thank you very much. i want to say first of all good morning and what a pleasure it is to be here this morning. thank you to the f tc for hosting this discussion and thank you very much for all of the federal trade commission staff who have been working tirelessly on this issue for number of years and it has been a pleasure getting to know them. i've been at the ftc and as you can see from the discussion on the last panel working collaboratively with the ftc and state partners to fight the scourge of robo calls with the tools they have. i want to commend them for their efforts. i will start with the usual disclaimer that i am giving you my own views, not the official views of the ftc. but i think it is the official view of the ftc that robo calls

are a top consumer complaint year-over-year and that we need to be using all of our tools in our toolbox to combat the problem. i want to start by noting that the origins of some of our authorities in this area, privacy and more specifically american's right to control over their data is once again in the news. it bears noting that the origin of the do not call registry stemmed from a bipartisan effort to protect americans privacy in 2003. it was unanimously passed and at the time democrats and republicans came together to provide a way of people to protect themselves from unwanted intrusion in telemarketing calls recognize that we are here today because technology and scammers find ways around this protections and more on that in a minute but i don't think that makes the achievement of providing consumers with stronger protections any less notable. if anything, the news and events of last week -underscore that americans consumers deserve

stronger protections for their data. the technology we are using in our daily lives is increasingly sophisticated in the amount of data we are sharing is increasingly intimate. without proper protections our own data can be and essentially is being used against us. the incentives in the marketplace drive toward ever greater collection and use of data in the fcc, the ftc and other expert consumer protection regulars have a role to play in providing protections for consumers. without stronger and without a stronger and more resilient framework one that includes requiring choices for the monetization of sensitive information american consumers will be left vulnerable at a time when we can least afford to be. i think american consumers need a stronger protections for additionally and those include comments of data security and privacy laws, transparency and accountability for data brokers and rights to control over our data. type of democrats and applicants to get to come together to make

progress on the significant privacy issue just like they did 15 years ago. i am happy to be here today to say that i think it is encouraging to hear how the ftc in a state partners are in engaged in unrelenting enforcement efforts to shut down law violators. they continue to flutter phones with illegal calls. here we can all agree that having as many law-enforcement partners on the beat as possible to safeguard consumer privacy protect consumers from fraud and abuse is a no-brainer. as we just heard multiple enforcement partners leverage different expertise, different jurisdictional authority in different resources to combat the threat. i am particularly proud of the enforcement action announced today against home security installation company alliance security and its telemarketers. according to our complete the alliance defendants made at

least 2 million illegal calls to consumers. they violated the law is no way to solve security. as we know even with many cops on the beat the calls keep coming in consumers need effective tools to stop the endless calls and the need for meaningful choices to select the best tool for them. the good news is that today there are growing number of call blocking tools in texas. the first came to the commission in 2014 consumers had very few options to stop unwanted calls. as a result the federal trade commission's first robo call challenge was available for both over ip home phones which is a good start but there are also very few options for wireless and little to no options being offered directly by the providers. after three more ftc challenges and continues work the industry and all of our partners today the landscape is very different. a number of providers offer some type of call blocking services

directly to their voice over ip or wireless customers are both in wireless customers now have a number of call blocking apps to choose from. ctia will hear from on the next panel put out a list of over 40 apps for ios and android phones alone. why are these tools having a greater impact and what can we do to help? ... >> second, these tools are not available to all consumers. not all providers offer call blocking.

when consumers pay for phone service shouldn't they expect there getting the best available protection from illegal calls? finally consumers with copper landmines have very few options to stop the calls. the best way to feel the gaps in what i'm excited to hear more about is to empower and expect providers to deploy solutions at the network level that will reach every consumer. effective tools should be available to all consumers. trust must be restored to caller id information through adoption of the framework sooner rather than later. i know the ftc stands ready to do our part to make sure consumers understand the tools and how to use them to protect themselves. excited to turn it over to the next panel for a discussion of the solutions and tools that are available. thank you. [applause]

>> thank you commissioner. has said, third panel is entitled solution and tools for consumers. moderated by julie who is chief of the fcc's office of engineering and technology. eventually to come up the panelist as well. >> and i turned it over to

julie. >> will give you a minute to get settled. good morning. a lot of pressure on the panel because it's the last panel before lunch. this panel will talk about some of the solutions. in my home when the phone rings and the first thing we do is listen for the announcement of the id. i get calls from unavailable and out of area. then when there's a number that perhaps in new york where you might have relatives and you don't recognize the number any say should i pick it up maybe it's somebody calling about something that is happened. i take a chance and not answering it.

see go ahead and sometimes my wife will say to me why did you pick that up. so this panel is to talk about solutions the pressure is on for me if i don't have something good to say when i get home i might not get in the door. there's a lot of traffic work going on. just a start i want to have each of our panelists introduce themselves and say something about their organization. >> my name is alex. ceo of the company we are a seattle-based company. one of the business lines is to help our partners wireless carriers and smart oems deal with this robo calls plague. we also have abs we provide for

direct download by consumers but that's not a significant. the largest team in the industry of data scientists and engineers dedicated to determining who are the bad callers, who are the good callers and provide as much information at your fingertips of the user base of they can make informed decisions. >> and jim here with alice in here in the context it shaken which will be discussed today came from the task force i was a joint effort that been fortunate enough to be involved in that activity since the very beginning when we decided it had to be called shaken. >> i'm alex, the ceo of e-mail.

we provide a call blocking after mobile phones and we supply the index which is what the world looks like in terms of robo calls every month. we have blocked well over 1 billion calls at this point. >> i marco saunders, i work with the national consumer law center. republic law firm that represents them before agencies. >> and crystalline -- we represent and we have been working on fighting illegal robo calls for a while. we were involved with the industry strikeforce and help draft that report. after the strikeforce ended we

took on the work and developed a ctia rubble call working group that meets every week. were working on abatement solutions and are a member of the fcc's nancy's call working group and are working hard now that getting the governance structure to calls up and running so we can onboard the industry to fight back. were a member of the advisory committee as it has mentioned they've made many recommendations on call blocking during the last year. i'm looking forward to talking about the tools that are carriers are doing and the apps that's representative by the two alex is on the panel. >> i'm met with from the federal trade commission. so responsibility for letting regular people understand how to

have better experiences as consumers and help businesses comply with consumer protection law. >> to kick it off, talk about how consumers protect themselves against robo calls. let's start a little bit on the government side. it is a privilege and honor to be working so closely with ftc. terrific things happen when government agencies work together. there is terrific information online at the fcc website. we have pamphlets in the back. for those watching on the web you can check it out on www

www.ftc.gov/robo calls. this terrific information about what you can do as a consumer and the resources available. we'll talk about what ftc has been doing. >> what i would tell somebody's there are great resources. i'm excited to hear more about the tools that industry is coming out with. a few years ago it wasn't so easy to get this advice. the services are effective and becoming more so. we put out information today and you can get this on the table. in go to ftc.gov/calls. the first thing you want think about widgets take a vantage of call blocking is to think about what phone you're using. if you have a mobile phone you want might want to download a nap. some are free some are provided through carrier services.

and you considers built-in features on your phone. if you have a landline you may need to buy a device. there are some that use blacklist or white list to limit the call to make sure only calls you on are getting through. if you have internet phone and many people is not that easy to tell, check with your carrier. there might be blocking services that either stop the calls i have the information show up about whether it's a scam color telemarketer or put those messages straight through to voicemail. the do not call registry still has some value especially in signaling. it's not going to stop a lot of illegal robo calls.

if you're on the registry and you get a call from somebody attempting to say something, they're not respecting the registry. if they're not respecting that life probably don't want to do business with them. if you get unwanted rubble call hangup. there's no reason to stay on the line. keep yourself informed of the scams out there is a good idea. you can go to ftc.gov/scams inside a first gamma alerts for your e-mail. >> the telephone consumer protection act that only provides the tools for public enforcement against robo colors, but also provides the ability of consumers to hire an attorney

and bring action against robo colors themselves. that's a valuable tool people should know about that they should can go into court and get $500 for every illegal robo call that they received. >> i know there's a lot going on against industry and preventing calls from getting through in the first place. if we could hear from the service providers and what they are doing. >> i have a little bit of tunnel vision around shaken that i want to put that into perspective. basic color id is a tool for identifying robo calls you do not want to receive. white list, blacklist built on that. anonymous call rejection.

effective of easy spoofing undermines the effectiveness of it and that led to the apps, either internal ones the third-party ones represented here today. those help. again, spoofing makes it harder for them to do their job. that's where shaken comes in. not as a solution. shaken by itself is not a solution. it's enabling technology that provides reliable information into the apps and can make them more effective in the long term. can also help with the enforcement initiatives for tracing calls back to the origin and a reliable way. it is a key enabler. to follow up, is there something the consumer needs to do with the provider? i say more about what shaken is if you're explaining it to a

layperson? >> yes. at its core, shaken allows the original service provider to find the call ends a test what they know. all calls assigned are not the same. if they know that's your number than they can assign this is your number. if they don't know it's your number but they know who originated it. like i know how to find them if they do something bad you can do a a partial which says is somewhat reliable. many of one sets a gateway coming in from who knows where. don't have any idea but i know it entered my network which might be useful. the other thing. the receiving end that information is verified so you

cannot mess with the tim between. when that is signed, the service provider attaches a unique origination id which can be used on trace back that allows you to identify when he go back. now i know exactly where it came from. it provides more information about the call primarily to assist the engine to add that into the mix of what they do. >> to help stem the tide. >> precisely. >> can you talk on the wireless side. >> since jim talked about trace back a minute focus on the tools that are wireless carriers have in place now that are not

dependent on a customer downloading an app. and then i get into the apps which have exploded over the last couple of years. at&t to start launch a product called at&t called protect. thousand december of 2016, free network service. it allows customers with iphones or android to automatically block suspected fraudulent calls. if flakes span calls so the customer can choose whether to answer it or not. also on the app customers can block an unlimited number of telephone numbers for 30 days. you can download the app or on the at&t website. at&t and the wireline side may call protect available to its ip wireline home phone users.

and alex will talk about this initiative. through this they blocked 3.5 billion unwanted robo calls. sprint offers a service. premium color id service on a prescription basis. liquids android and smart phones inability to identify a higher percentage of the nuisance calls but you can block them as well. they work with a company called sequence. t-mobile launched a product called scam id.

this is/are at this time. automatic network base. pre-for their customers. it identifies calls from known scammers across all platforms on small forms and feature phones. if a scam call is detected color id will display something called scam likely. it gives customers the option to answer permanently blocked. another called scam block. you can use it free and it will allow calls from known scammers blocked. privacy star also has a nap in the marketplace. they have blocked within 3 billion scam calls since the launch of the product. verizon is currently trialing the free level robo call labeling called spa scam alert. so all wireline customers and includes copper and digital voice. it warns against robo calls is available through the entire

wireline customer base. a more robust version with thousands of members will be in production next month. they worked with the company to develop a one click solution. it simplifies the consumers to sign up for the blocking service. on the wireless side they offer all customers who subscribe, a feature at no charge that identifies us spam call. they're working with a company called sequence. besides those tools are carriers are in play today, the app ecosystem has exploded. in 2016, we studied across-the-board wireless, windows and blackberry.

at the time there is a lot of apps call blocking or labeling apps. but we have recently went through and looked at it again. now, their 550 apps available. this 495% increase since we launched our website. i think the marketplace is working but we need to continue working. consumers have something to work with. >> what about this third-party providers if you could talk about what you've been doing. >> my company is called high up. we have apps that you can

download directly on iphone or android. what a choice for consumers. over 500 out and i think the app store is effective it guides consumers to more effective apps. i'm concerned about the fact that in the u.s. market the iphone is a bit crip will appear to what they have to widely a dry side. if you want to download an android app that's well rated to you can probably avoid most recent calls right away. on an iphone if you downloaded and you actually have to look through settings then a phone menu and then you get down to

call blocking to make it work. most consumers don't understand that. even though there are good apps available most consumers are unable to activate the services. otherwise on the operator side were excited to be working within announced partner what i am concerned about is the industry's ability to find the right solutions. to some have to be ours. maybe just to be a little controversy over because i think it's an important issue. we have to solve this issue. >> how soon the spoofing issues

huge. there's a lot of companies could do. how fast can we move along on this. were really eager to see something coming out. to be placed into action. were very excited. that is the foundation of that mark stronger if this issue can be dealt with. it's hundreds of companies believed services. >> i want to talk about some of the apps. the basic idea of a call blocking appears to decide when the numbers about gaia not ring. everybody has different ways so

we didn't think a nap was good enough so we detect somebody's a bad guy we replace your mobile voice mail and play two to do the numbers out of service. that stop them from making the call. we took the approach that you want to block it at the source. we try to fool the bad guys. second is that is not black-and-white. cvs is telling your prescription has arrived. there's a huge amount in the middle were debt collectors call 50 times. it's hard to tell if there wanted or not. if we think it's in the middle we route them to voicemail without rain your phone.

see you can play the bag greeting and we can take the middle-of-the-road people throw meant to voicemail and let consumers decide what to do. >> so, there's pluses and minuses with having lots of things to choose from. on one hand you can sort through and sometimes overwhelmed. anybody could comment on what the reactions and experiences have been. are they effective. i stumped the panel spirit some have high ratings and i think they been affected but they out to 6 million phone calls i think it's starting to work. i'm always concerned about maybe

some actors being overly aggressive. into quickly fighting the bad robo callers. what do you in terms of driving out the bad colors from the good one. i am concerned that there might be too many solutions. >> one thing rears surprises that they actually want the bazooka. as on our android app we had a weightless feature. if the callers in your contacts your phone will ring. you have to find in and tap for things. we put it out there to say does anybody wanted. as it's going most people have it on the not.

in order to help trap help consumers get through it we've listed on each of the pages top aft beside user rater's, number of downloads but i've also attached pdf of the entire app per platform. i don't pick and choose. i want the consumers to decide. there is a way to help consumers try some of the top-rated wants. >> we tried to play at what were say to make sure it's useful. when call blocking apps came out we would test some of these to see if some of these were good

or not downloading the third-party app but then the call tried to bring through the app as opposed to a regular phone app and ultimately we decided we were ready. there's a few ways that people can sort out what's best for them. going to the site if you want to check alyssa's curated are going onto the app store and typing in your carrier with call blocking. one of the things they tell us is the preferred price by the zero. the first thing they want to see is what's offered through the carrier. it's night and day from a few

years ago. i'm using irs and label someone box others. it provides a lot of information. >> i know alex to touched on th. how do you distinguish the bad actors, the things you want to block from the things that should get through. kenny say little bit for consumers about how this works so i make sure that maybe some choose to take the bazooka but others like i talked about maybe this is a call i wanted. how do you sort those? >> we look at over 30 attributes. our team has some techniques to

on a real-time basis detect and assign a reputation to a caller. >> is a daunting technical challenge. one thing is that we don't have a blacklist. we are looking at every call is an event on its own. we may choose to assign the call about a good reputation. the worst red beautician would result in it not being blocked. very few results in the en bloc. so those calls could be dangerous. racine a big rise and then receded 1200% increase this year than last year.

but then there's all the shades of gray. we can be spamming era nuisance. it's very subjective. who considers that nuisance. when fundraising calls are coming through the 5050 changes. i think there's an incident about school alerts and it's important to receive notifications. given our company is premised on fighting these there's other examples to in terms of debt collectors. the change my credit card recently and had our service blocked out the debt collector from getting through to me.

it's important that some of these calls gets through. one of these people are doing important work and they need to get through to consumers. we take the false positive seriously. i reported false positive is .01%. >> what are the things if you're trying this a service provider that i the clues that this is an unwanted call. >> talk about the solution. the key thing is how do you identify the bad actors if you're not doing the right thing. it doesn't solve it because you

can still get a phone number and be fully attested. it doesn't mean that's not a bad call. it's not all of it. you can also be assured that as soon as you work out some technique between the good and the bad they're going to change the techniques. you need to have the stakeholders and all the key segments. the men that call blocking apps and the users. the stakeholder has to work together to identify the technique. since his first work that change. that's why you need to make sure that structures flexible than

when they try something different you come back and look at it work out what needs to be done. other times they'll consistent. that flexibility quick response is key. if you have that you're well-positioned if not it will end ugly. >> so we behave somewhat similar that we have a dynamic blacklist in a dynamic weightless. it's factors of a behavior number that makes us believe this particular call is a bad thing. one thing we do is recognize the good call to make sure you let them through. we bought some technology called audio fingerprinting that looked at the voicemails and audios left by a given number at a given time. then we can tell what another numbers doing something similar.

then if another never calls since the same. so looking at the content of the interactions that is key. >> going to talk about the difference between good and bad. i think there could be difference of opinion on which group different colors fit. looking at the top 20 robo callers in february of the nation, 16 were debt collectors. not two of them will look like scammers. sixteen were debt collectors. so according to many debt collectors manual they will collect each accounts many

student loans have eight accounts. there subject to getting it calls a day from a debt collector. is that a good or bad guy. >> i just leave it at that. even if there is a dead 80 calls a day may be too much. >> are the things that we've been talking about effective against spoofing. >> nothing can be done until this takes place. racine almost 30% of nuisance

calls today are the so-called neighbor spoofing scan. these are typically scams the bad actors will call year they have the same six digits in the beginning. some are curious to see who's calling. usually it's the first six digits we have some techniques to spread that out. for example it would be to block any caller that comes in and those who happens randomly have a similar number. i can't tell you the technique that were using.

it would no longer be effective. but that is an example of spoofing if you're smart you can block those on the belt on the point about not shaking the way i look at it is very effective techniques but in many cents the foundation has weaknesses. they're providing a firm foundation for those things. you don't have to wait for for the two comments received them good smarter by seeing the definition of a neighborhood.

those started seeing the five digits so it turns out there are problems. let's happen with our user base is there deciding i would rather just white list i'm a very strict them so that consumers are taking it into their own hands and taking it into their problem. >> let's take it in to caller id where we on that and what's involved in accomplishing it? >> so step back, in january of 2017 euros published that is

continuing only recently had over a half-dozen provider who has completed testing. there the process of testing and those who are watching and getting ready. all of that is proceeding with the infrastructure to deploy that. we should the governance framework. our intention that by about now will get the processes in place. i talked about the need of various stakeholders to share information and look at how we respond to that. that's what it would do. to be honest, the trust anchor

slow that down a little bit. and were set up in running now. the key thing is that because of the need for all the stakeholders to be involved to understand the perspectives you actually need to have the governments ability up and running almost before you have it deployed. you don't want to deploy and then try to figure out how to manage it after the fact. >> so you have the framework developed, the testing is being done and i encourage all carriers to get on board. as far as the nancy's work were

working for that on may of this year. i'm hoping that they set up that governing structure. >> i think we for this question which were on the enforcement side to discourage it. from your perspective to the government to to encourage further development of solutions across the board to anyone? >> that the gold should be is a vibrant ecosystem of different labs, carrier should do with a can do. i look at a lot of apps and

there's things on how to get better at stopping the calls. so how to get that ecosystem the main way to get it is driving the carriers to open more things up to the so they have the data to use to make it easy to sign up. he left out that apple has a fix list. a million and a half members that's a crazy way to do it although android has its own set of problems there. i think getting them to help push these would be good to everybody.

>> it's interesting to me that the engineers think it's with engineering and the lawyers think it's. >> as a lawyer i think the fixes with the engineering. but the law still has a very important place that is a really critical question that will have tremendous ramifications about what types of calls are considered covered by that consumer protection law. if the fcc moves forward and when to sell it like the

equipment generating the calls that it will not be covered by that law. then all the calls in which they are talking to the receiver, the person is getting the call will be no coverage. no ability or consumer has to consent. were no ability for the consumer to say stop calling me and have a lot of require that the caller stop. as i described a minute ago. the ability for consumers to say stop calling for these automated calls is critical. whether that caller is in their white list or gravest or blacklists. the ftc rules do not cover these robo calls they only cover

prerecorded and artificial voice. the whole burden will be on the federal communications commission to cover these calls so they have some ability to control them. >> i don't have an opinion on enforcement but as a newcomer to d.c., were holed up in our bubble. most the time it's been really nice to see an effective spark that took place a couple years ago. there's good conversation around spoofing an action is taking place now. i'm concerned about there being too much discourse about coverage or the ability to

detect these bad callers and maybe not as much of the false positives. for looking at a long-term view and i want there to be as much innovation and solutions available. there is an example recently was self driving cars hitting someone. the better shut down innovation temporarily. i can think of all sorts of awful scenarios that would take place if too many calls are blocked. i'm not can i give specific examples but summer life or death. i don't think it's governments role to enforce on how this happens but elevating the cost of false positives would be

healthy to make sure innovation continues in the long run as rapidly as possible. >> i think specific area where continuing to have a conversation among industry association and government will be in the labeling of calls. there's been some interesting work going on and it will be more important as the standards come into effect that people understand if they get a green or yellow or red what that means and not be unique across every type of device. the other information sharing is the actual data about calling the what people are reporting. were happy that we have been able to take the information people take from us let's report

it they can always report unwanted calls on the national do not call registry and were making that information available on a daily basis so that can help make the algorithm smarter and better. both information sharing is really important. >> were down to the last few minutes. any final thoughts he wanted to that we did not cover? >> i'm glad the lawyers and engineers are on the same path. >> person i go back to having worked in the national do not call registry. it doesn't not stop unwanted calls now.

we feel like we've come in into an area where there's promising technologies. we hope regular people will take advantage of those check out some of these. they can go to ftc.gov and go to places in checking out apps in the app store are going to give a good result. >> the work is not done that we will continue to work at it in partnership with the ftc, the wireline and wireless industry, the third-party app developers. the illegal robo callers will keep at it. we cannot just sit here after calls gets up and running we have to keep fighting every day. >> i would support that. it will get better but will take

longer than we would like. one thing when people talk about solutions. that's the wrong mindset. you have to keep working at it it will get better but never be solved. let's keep going. >> it will be an ongoing battle. a lot of think the panelist and it's encouraging all the work that has been done. there's progress being made in your working to have the numbers go in the opposite direction. it underscores the importance of government industry through third-party providers and all of the stakeholders all coming together to tackle this problem. so thank you i give you a round of applause.

[applause]er david

cameron testifies about global security. unfoldsn, where history daily. in 1979, c-span was created as a public service by america's cable television companies and today we continue to bring you unfiltered coverage of congress, the white house, the supreme court, and public policy events aroundington, d.c., and the country. c-span