a mrs. sandburg understand importance she wanted it to remain as intact as possible. >> twice a month c-span city tours take booktv and american history tv on the road to explore literary life and history of a selected city. working with our cable partners we visited literary and historic sites as we interview local historian, author as civic leads you can watch past interviews and tours online by going to booktv.org and selecting c-span cities tour from the series drop down at the top of the page. or by visiting c-span.org/cities tour. ... on booktv on c-span2. >> welcome to los angeles and the los angeles times festival

of books held on the campus of the university of southern california. 150,000 people are expected over the next two days to attend hundreds of other programs being held. booktv on c-span2 booktv on c-span2 will be live all weekend with author discussions and calling programs for today's lineup includes authors talking about the trump administration, labor and biographies plus your chance to talk with journalist tim o'reilly and law professor adam linkletter. our fall schedule for the weekend is available at booktv.org. follow us on social media from behind-the-scenes photos and videos at the tv as our address on facebook twitter and instagram. we are kicking off our coverage here in l.a. with author and journalist jorge ramos. his most recent book is called stranger the challenge of a latino immigrant in the trump

area -- arrow. you refer to yourself as -- what do you mean? >> guest: we were realizing many times mexicans and sometimes mexican-americans and sometimes chicanos this is a place where i came when i was an immigrant for the first time and then i realized right now we are having an interview and just yesterday i did a newscast in spanish and i talked my audience in spanish and i realized i was going from one world to another. that's precisely how i feel. unfortunately i would never be american and enough and i will never be mexican enough for many mexicans either so i'm right in between.t

>> host: in fact a the right that i will never be american and off for the americans just as i will never be messing messing--mexican enough for many mexicans. do you feel at home in mexico? >> guest: i don't think i have a home in mexico. i decided to be an immigrant one of the most difficult decisions in my life i left home and i don't have a home anymore. when i think of home i think of my brothers and sisters. when i go back to mexico i see them. i've been looking for thehe idea of home and is an immigrant i think you lose that forever. you are constantly looking for thatat home and it's impossibleo get it back. >> host: has it been worse since november 2016 in your view >> guest: it's been worse since june of 2015 since donald

trump's candidacy. i have an accent. i have tried everything and it doesn't work. my kids correct me constantly. they are my best teachers and the history of the united states changes. cyclical and sometimes anti-immigrant sentiment but never as it is right now. when a candidate says mexican immigrants are--as donald trump 72015 and you know it's a lie and he is lying and he is talking about you and his not telling the truth that was difficult and then when candidate published on instagram your cell phone number for an interview that's difficult and when that candidate throws you

out of a press conference, guess that's difficultow. i never felt the rejection. sometimes i felt it but that hatred is different. it's contagious and in this case it's hard. >> host: do you think donald trump is a racist? >> guest: i don't know police are racist but i know what's coming out of his mouth and what came out of his mouth are racist statements. when he said mexican immigrants are--that's a racist statement. his job because of his mexican heritage, that's a racist statement. when he said people from haiti and african nations, that's a racist treatment is coming from the president of the united states.

we cannot normalize that, it's not normal and it is our responsibility as journalists to question that printing to denounce it. >> stranger: the challenge of an immigrant in the trump era is the name of the book, jorge ramos is the author. is your chance to talk with him. 48 8200, for those of you in the east and central time zone, 202-748-8201 in the mountain or pacific time zone . go ahead and dialed in, we will take your calls in just a minute. mister ramos, your kids feel like foreigners when they go to mexico? >> probably. >> they are americans. >> they were born here in the united states and they feel 100 percent american. and when they goback to mexico with me on vacation or just to visit my mom , i don't think they feel mexican. i don'tthink they do. although nowadays , we are not monolithic.

my son for instance, he's 19. he's human, mexico and american. and that's who we are. you are again going back to this, it's a culture made out of wood and paper which informed by parts of animals. in other words, it's something you people might consider a monster, other people might think of it as incredibly angelic figure. that's who we are. we are made up very different parts from different situations and countries and elements and that's how i feel i am. >> you refer in your book to president obama's support. >> yes, because president obama promised us that he was going to do immigration reform. he didn't do it.

in 2009, before senator kennedy got sick he controlled the white house and the congress and he could have done. he didn't. then president obama supported 12 and a half million immigrants, destroyed thousands of families and he was no other president had done something like that and that is important because i think as a journalist, you'll have to be independent. i've attacked president trump because of his racist remarks but also criticized barack obama for what he gave . there's a chapter in your new book, when to stop being. >> journalists. >> i think we have the responsibility, to report reality as it is, not as we wish it to be in more important social responsibility that we have is to question those who are in power and when it comes to racism, discrimination, corruption , public lies, violation of human rights, i

think we have to take a stance that we shared a holocaust survivor uses to say that neutrality only serve the officers, never the victim and the best examples we have great journalism and journalists. watergate, edward r murrow during the mccarthy area, attacking the established church or the cases of sexual abuse. i think as journalists if we don't do that, who's going to do it? i think of journalism as a public service and our public service is precisely the question those who are in power you think your immigrant experience as you mentioned , having an accent, being first generation, you think it's any different than other immigrants are having? >>. >> it's sadly as any other immigrants. but it is not only me who feel like a stranger, the title of the book. i think thousands upon millions of immigrants and latinos will be like

strangers in their own country. i haven't felt any different for 35 years, as we discussed , this country gave me the opportunities that my country of origin couldn't give me i was a stranger in mexico, that's why i came here and still i feel like a stranger . why is that? i think it has to do with politics but also with the anxiety happening in this country right now. in which many people feel uncomfortable with the revolution that we are living . in 2044 everyone is going to be a minority and many politicians are taking advantage of this anxiety, taking immigrants for crime and for their economic troubles and it is not right. and it is, look, emigrants are less likely to be created criminals than any other citizen. they are lesslikely to be behind bars . billions of dollars a year in

the economy and somehow when we hear president trump talking, it's only that we are being invaded. there are criminals. he's talking about gangs. that's not who we are. i do understand that some immigrants, very few crimes but it is unfair to criticize all the immigrant population like he has done. >> let's hear from some of our colors, from margaret in leavenworth kansas, you're on with jorge ramos. >> what honor to say hello to you and how much i respect you. after all you went through, i would like to tell you we are all strangers in this country. i was an army brat in the 50s and 60s and a ball over and boy, when you go from the north to the south and you get called a yankee and all kind of terrible names, and then being catholic in the

south, when john kennedy was killed, there were some people in myschool were happy . no being an army brat, i don't quite understand you're just feeling like a stranger because i was astranger all over . and i think obama responded to the fact that in chicago there's a lot of companies that import all kinds of illegals so they don't have to pay people and the black population got very angry they were always being displaced by africans like nigerians, filipinos, mexicans and they wanted the jobs and they were always called lazy.i think he did that because of that but corporations use all this to manipulate people. and it's to my knowledge, mexicans are here first. i don't know everything. i watch a lot of history and it looked like they were here first.

>> margaret, a lot there to chew on. let's hear from jorge ramos. >> i appreciate your call, thank you so much and i agree with you that we can feel like strangers in this country. why do i feel like a stranger? when a candidate says, a candidate that became president says go back to univision, he really meant go back to mexico. and one of his supporters tells me outside that press conference where i was subjected, get out of my country. does feel like a stranger and when your community is being attacked constantly.and constantly by the president of the united states, you do feel like a stranger but at the end, i think he went to them. at the end, the idea of tolerance, multicultural society is going to prevail.

at the end, the idea of an america that will prevail is the one that i'm hearing from the dreamers or from the students that survived the massacre in parkland. that's the united states, that's the america i believe and the america that inspires me . >> jorge ramos, what about the balkanization of american politics? the latino immigrants, the black population, women, etc. at what point did we not talk to everybody. >> at a point in which we think that being diverse is a sin, that is exactly the opposite.everyone, this is america, this is the future. these seas are chavez in 1984 gave a wonderful assessment and said we are looking to the future and the future is ours. this is the future.

california is the future. everyone is going to be a minority in 2044. african-americans, native americans, everyone is going to be a minority and when we think of the other as the enemy, that's when division started and i think many politicians are taking advantage of that demographic just to get votes. >> what do you say to somebody who's sincerely afraid of unchecked immigration. >>. >> talk to me, talk to other immigrants. >> this is a very important question because when we see president trump and when we see immigrants talking about this, they are presenting us as criminals. every time an immigrant commits a crime, a generalized. they're criminalizing the whole population and it is trump, as a matter of fact, the more immigrants that you

have, the less prime you have. these are the numbers. in 1990 there were 3.5 million undocumented immigrants in this country. in 2013 that number grew to 11.2 million . so the undocumented population grew incredibly from 3 million to 11 million. in those years, 40 years according to the fbi, violent crimes increase 48 percent. so what is happening? the more immigrants that you have, even undocumented immigrants, the less prime that you have but when you hear politicians and president trump, it's different though i do understand that some people are anxious about that but they have to realize that we are not, that what we are being be portrayed by the trump administration. >> hellofran ? >> caller: i was wondering if your guest has considered races and is not a form of ignorance but a form of deliberate cruelty. there is something people in nature. it is difficultfor me to believe that racist people don't know any better and

they are really that dumb . >> so the question is on racism. well, -- i think that racism happens when you don't know who your neighbor is. and you don't understand what's in front of you. when you are simply afraid of someone just because you don't know him or don't know how to pronounce his name . and i do understand that the country is changing and it's changing very rapidly . and that when everyone is going to be a minority , that you might think that the other is the enemy, but we are not. i think racism happens when you think of the other as the

enemy and the only way you can then breach that is talking to others and understanding that what you are being told in social media is not the truth. >>. >> host: jorge ramos is the host of univision and telephone to which means what? >> going to the point. >> how big is univision's audience, is it nationwide? >> or is it hemisphere wide? >> on univision, this is what happened. when i first came to the united states in california in 1983, there were 50 million latinos. right now there are going to be 60 million latinos and they live 30 years, the hispanic population will grow to more than 100 million. one in three is going to be a lucky in this country. and many of them are still

connected to their countries of origin.many of them speak spanish at home. and that's our audience. it's still growing. many immigrants come to this country will feel more comfortable in spanish and in english and that our audience . it continues to grow but also we have many challenges. there's a huge migration of hives from large screens, and we have to understand that many latinos now feel more comfortable in spanish and that the challenges we're facing right now as any other metals. >> let's hear from brian in, locke wisconsin. >>. >> hello. jorge, i felt horrible when you were removed from the press conference. and when i was a child, that a while ago, i'm 61. you were told anyone can be president.

who would want to be president now? i think a confluence of events, the russians, the anti-integration, this foolishness overemails . has brought this country, i mean, we're going to have supreme court judges for life , not to mention destroying the countries faith and its institutions. like the fbi. taking a guys pension two days before is going to retire. i mean, i'm ashamed. we're ruining this country and it's going to be a hard, hard haul to get back to what we had. >> . >> i do understand what you're telling me, but i am really optimistic.

despite the fact of what i've gone through and despite the fact of what everyone's gone through , i am very optimistic. what donald trump did, using a bodyguard, to reject me from a press conference, is exactly the same thing fidel castro did with me. he prevented me from asking morequestions with a bodyguard. here you have fidel castro and donald trump doing the same thing . >> then youwould say well, we are on the wrong path . yes, in that sense we are on the wrong path but i'm so inspired by what what i'm seeing right now. with the dreamers, and the students from the massacre in parkland school. it is incredible how these millennial's are criticized so much in the past. it's incredible how the parkland survivors and the dreamers are taking the lead in this country and doing very important issues. done control and immigration so if the future of the united states depends on the dreamers and on the parkland

survivors, we are in good hands so i'm inspired by them. i am completely sure that this era and the future of the united states will be completely different. i'm seeing so many movements of resistanceand rebellion . i am not absolutely convinced that having eventually we will be in the right parts of the us will do the right thing. i'm an immigrant. and just one other immigrant throughout have the same opportunities i had . >> august 2015, iowa. getting thrown out of the press conference. what was the result after that. >>. >> nobody paid attention to what we were doing. when i, when we said that it was dangerous for a candidate to make racist statements about immigrants on june

2015, nobody paid attention. people were saying you know, latinos, you don't know what's happening. donald trump is donald trump and then they didn't take it seriously. then when i got ejected from the press conference in iowa they were saying well, that's donald trump. pay attention to that. people don't realize it wasan attack on the first amendment. it was an attack on freedom of speech, and journalism. they said it's donald trump being donald trump . no, first, that case was racism. the second case was an attack on a journalist and we understood what was happening and when i say we, we immigrants, we latinos we realize what was happening and many people did not pay attention and when they pay attention was already too late . >> from stranger, a chapter called disobeyed. here's my advice , jorge

ramos, disobeyed. when you are standing in front of a racist, disobeyed. when they want to discriminateagainst you, disobeyed. when asked for something unjust, disobeyed. when they can't publicly defend what they say in private, disobey. when they demand the above honesty , disobey. when things have to change and there is no other way to do so, disobey. do it peacefully but disobey, disobey. as for my kids. i wrote that for my kids. >> we are in a time in which violence is not an option. i think you have to stand up, speak up and speak out and if , if we remain silent, then things like this are happening, i think we are being complicit and i don't want to be complicit and i don't want my kids to be

complicit and i want to disobey when something is wrong. i think donald trump is presenting to us a moral dilemma and at this moment, silence is not an option. and if you stay silent, then you are taking a side. >> when my kids ask me, who were the journalists when donald trump was president, what do you do? ican safely say i resisted . and i said no, that i asked the questions. >>. >> host: bradford in parksville tennessee. for. >> caller: my comment is this. it seems strange that north american immigration problems could have been nipped in the bud at plymouth bay in 1620. >>. >> all right, brett, we're

going to leave your comments. unless you want to respond to anything you have to say. >> everyone is an immigrant. everyone is an immigrant. we all came from other countries. as a native american. and 40 percent of the founders of the fortune 500 companies were either immigrants or sons of immigrants. and i think the american experiment has been fantastic . i love this. it's very difficult to see these spaces, these accents, any other country in the world. this has had wonderful consequences and we just have to make sure that we continue fighting. for diversity. and for inclusion and for tolerance, that's all. >> richard in brentwood

maryland, you are on tv, author jorge ramos. >> caller: i want to say to the authors that on many occasions i've heard him take a swipe against president obama because he didn't do what he could have done when they had themajority in the house , but i would submit to mister ramos that things had to be prioritized. the country was in an economic upheaval going over the cliff, so i think for him to insist that the president should have pushed this particular issue to the front at all costs, it's a little bit undeserving. you deserve to have your issue heard but not over the economic wherewithal of the nation as a whole and lastly, as far as him being here 35 years, i would like to refer to an interview i once saw

between the author james baldwin and robert kennedy and robert kennedy made, i think it was from cambridge. he made a comment that i see in a few years we will probably have a black president and james baldwin's reply was the issue is that we've been here for about 400 years and irish had been here for less than 80 and already you're running for president and telling me we have to wait and it's not time for that yet so i wanted to say to mister ramos and i followed him somewhat, that during those periods of time, the country was in a bad way and economically, i think it took president over what your issues were. lastly, peter, you are thebest interviewer i've ever seen . thanks . >> host: i agree with that.

>> guest: you are right. let me say that by the fact that president obama deported more immigrants than any other president, that thanks to president obama, we have the dream act and thanks to him, hundreds of thousands of dreamers are able to be even living in this country with no fear. now, president obama told me in an interview in 2008 as a candidate that he was going to introduce immigration reform in his first year in office. that was his promise. that was not my promise, it was his promise. he didn't have to do that. he promised back. >> and he didn't deliver. i do understand that the country was going through an economic racist in 2008. and that there were priorities but i think there are things at the same time, he didn't mean that. he just didn't have to promise it. and he did.

and i think he didn't take his work, that's the only thing i'm saying mercedes in pennsylvania, 30 seconds left . >> caller: mercedes is no longer with us. all right, final question. >> at what point if people want to come to this country, at what point does it become the responsibility of other countries to maybe alter they are doing things to make people not necessarily want to leave? >> immigration is a complex phenomenon. something pushes you out of that country and something pulls you in and i think that it is the responsibility of most countries and also a responsibility of the united states. immigrants don't come here because they want to go to disneyland or because they want to kill other americans. they come here for jobs nobody else wants to do. they are taking care of kids,

building our homes area is also our responsibility. we are complicit. they're coming here, many of them illegally and we have to do something about it. >> trader is the name of the book, the challenge of a latino immigrant in the trump era. this is what, you're abook? >> guest: 13 . it's all right. >> we look forward to having you back. >> guest: 80 in english, thank you we are here on the campus of the university of southern california. "l.a. times" book festival 23rd year in aar row that the festival has been held. over 20 years the c-span has been covering the festival. coming up you will hear authors talking about american culture. then we'll have another call-in with kim o'reilly. his book is called wtf and after that another author panel talking about fees and that includes john farrell talking about his new biography about

richard nixon. that's coming up so let's go under the hancock building and here are authors on american culture. [inaudible conversations] >> it's great to see you all. one of the first events this morning here at the "l.a. times" festival of looks is wonderful. i am delighted to be here to discuss the icons. that is the title of this panel, american culture and i'm thrilled that we have for wonderful writers with me. one book was so big that they needed to people to do it. so quick notes, please silence all cell phones and personal recordings.

we want to make this as conversational as possible so we will talk and in a little while get to questions. we have prepared some microphones in the aisle. it will be recorded and you'll need to speak up. so, let me get to work. these books are strategically placed as you can see. there will be an opportunity to buy the books after, real money to buy a real books of these authors. we have here to my left, i always like to go left as a principle. [laughter] "the man who made movies".

there he is. [applause] and then we have dan and isaac. [applause] dan kois and isaac butler, "the world only spins forward" and then right in the middle there we have the newly minted probably not in your program pulitzer prize winner. [applause] the national book critics circle the winner of our biography category in march.

caroline fraser with "prairie fires" the american dream of laura ingalls wilder. here we are talking about icons and i thought what makes something iconic? i always thought buildings were iconic but what about the people or the people who made this amazingal theater? i thought we were just sort of start left and talk about what makes you bash him iconic? >> he has an icon that nobody really knew what is an icon because history had pretty much forgotten him but he was the founder of the predecessor to 20th century fox. while we have many biographies of the other early movie moguls

it was william fox. i would say what makes him an icon is that he made any contributions to largely uncredited shape the industry for generations to come. you want to understand why the industry is the way it is he is a pivotal figure forf understanding that because of how active he was in directing the early development of the industry really across all dimensions from production to exhibition to distribution. >> hi guys. >> hi. our book is the history of the creation of the play as well as relevance to modern readers in the air goers now. an icon can be described as

someone who is transformative in their world. the play is itself transformed the american theater and transformed pop culture particularly the way the characters are representative and the fate that they often faced and dramatic works like this. the american cultural canon has aof way of welcoming iconic wor. in the theaters for the last 30 years seemed the most likely and there's an argument they rip is most likely to stand time and be next 200, 300he years. the book was a history. we interviewed over 250 people for it and welfare stories into print many of those people themselves are icons. you have meryl streep who wrote

the memorandum is on his leg. what was really fascinating was the interrelationship between those things and this play has that kind of power on the people who are doing it. dan and i both saw this play when we were teenagers and it had this very iconic power as we were watching it. all the people who had worked on it or readle it or taught it it had that same transformative thing. it's audience was one of the wild discoveries throughout the book. >> and laura ingle's wilder has become an icon because she represents an era to era of pioneering and of homesteading and one of the things that is

fascinating about her iconic status is a think she knew as she was becoming an icon that she actually said in an essay that my life represents all of the phases of the frontier. and she really knew that her life inc. all this history from the plains indian wars to homesteading and beyond and of course she wrote the book during the great depression. it was reflective of that era as well. one of the things that was kind of funny about her legacy is that it was then carried forward by a television show that became very famous. her iconic status was

transformed by that show. >> the next thing i was going to ask you whatwa icons become icoc because of the writer? talk about how conscious were your people in making the legacy carolyn explains in the book so brilliantly. what about the other's? >> there was a point. early on while they were making it the newas is going to be a great play. but there was a turning point where they suddenly realized that it was probably--they managed to complete it which was one of the big struggles in the book. they managed to complete it they had an iconic work of art or in their hands. that's suddenly raises the stakes for everyone involved to

radically and then 25 years later when we were interviewing for the book tony particularly was very generous with his time i think in great part because he recognizes that his--hinges on this. the author of angels in america dies but at least i get it there in time for the obituary. so very interesting talking to someone who believes as many famous people are extremely conscious individual yet he also knows the story behind this play is not a story that casts them in the most wonderful light. to his credit in the end it all worked out. >> william fox was always

conscious of the legacy he was going to leave. when he started in movie production in 1915 he had been an exhibitor and distributor but when he started making movies he always wanted to make great movies that would outlast him and establish his name for all time. he barely early recognized it would become a major arts form so much so that in 1960 he tried to get a museum started. nobody went for that idea. it was supposed to be cheap and disposable entertainment. i don't think he ever wanted himself to become an icon. he thought the attention should be on his accomplishments and on the personal level he is very self-effacing. didn't want publicity in contrast to many of the other moguls. he didn't want to do interviews, didn't want to be photographed.

it was all about the industry and what he could contribute. >> and how much is the idea of hardship invested into this idea of being abe nikon? we only think of this in the achievement of someone is extraordinaryy and overcomes great carriers. that's certainly essential to the myth. laura engle'sld wilder--. >> he grew up in the slums of the lower east side and yet a third grade education. itad was one hardship after another. it was not an easy road for him. yet the battle for corrupt government in new york. he had to fight the company to

go into further distribution and go into production. it was one battle after another. >> and wilder's relationship to hardship in her novel is quite interestings because she's very willing to talk about natural disasters and extraordinary blizzards and tornadoes and biblical laundry list of disasters. she is not so willing to talk about man-made disasters or the disasters that her father caused like bringing the family into risk andd hardship. it's interesting to look at what she left out of her books as well as what she put in and how she celebrated their survival from these hardships that didn't want to talk about the disasters

that they brought on themselves. >> that's part of the mythmaking , right? right from the beginning she was very focused on as you say the picture of the frontier. >> a lot, of that had to do wih her feeling about her father. she adored him and idolized him and wanted to present him in the best possible light but the upshot of that was the whole picture of homesteading emerging from the book is one that is very successful and stable and secure when in fact it was really anything but. >> in the memories of the many the people we talked to the experience of putting angels together was often the opposite. many of these people it's a capstone experience but

up until they actually got standing ovations at the end of the first performance the products of putting it up look like sheer misery. they were very blunt about that. many people were telling the stories of these angels and talking about then there was the time i was an angel and i was hanging from the ceiling and i just started rotating around and the wig got torn off my head and tony had to use a broom to turn it back around. the mythmaking for that included that agony of creation and that's the fun of some of those stories.br >> that was true for tony in the writing of it. he had the most expensive writers block in history.

struggling to complete the work on every level. really a part of this myth. >> in caroline's book one sees very clearly a dark side to this i don't want to put words in your mouth but i'm wondering how you grappled with this kind of dark side to any story, any character especially with living characters. >> first i want to hear about the dark side. [laughter] >> the dark side in the book, they are fairly dark for a novel for children but you always have

the feeling that things are going to work at in and and they always have good endings and they have these happy and golden years. they were actually anything but in terms of what happened to her after she got married. but the dark side of her life i think comes through the most clearly when you seeom the fraut relationship that she had with her daughter and how they really struggled to put these books together even as they fought like cats and dogs and didn't really like each other in a lot of ways. it was very difficult and one of the few things that rose in laura had in common was their devotion to the kindness anti-new deal philosophy and that became verypo important to rose later on in her life.

it really takes over her life and crowds out all of her writing and other activities. it's quite striking to see how they both invest themselves in that. laura less so because she was much older eye that point. it is an interesting thing to follow the depression through the book anyway. you can see and farmer boy where there are lava's--lavish descriptions of food a on almost every page and just such an emphasis on self-reliance rather than the elimination of everything else. it's their and it's hard for readers to understand. >> yet there is a reliance on laura.

she goes at nineni years old too what other people's houses and earn money. that seems more self-reliant than the myth. >> right andat again she never wanted to talk about how she'd basically one into service at the age of nine and worked throughout much of herr childhd >> in one way it's good and another way it's just awful. >> later on in her life she had a really hard time with people who during the midst of the dust bowl and the depression who are completely--she's very critical of people. it does feel very harsh.

the dark side of history felt thepe necessity to compromise wh corrupt institutions. he really believed in motion pictures and it's very idealistic in certain ways. but it was also realistic. he had to joined forces with the political structure and they wanted to business with a very colorful character. he ran prostitution rings and protection rackets and gambling houses but he had the money and he helped him get into manhattan fox built an impressive new york theaters and that is how he got on the stage. then later on when wall street

is really taking over but it's largely not regulated and the industry is expanding at such a rapid pace. fox had to make financial corp. compromises which he didn't believe in doing such as short selling to raise money. but it wasn't against the law at that point and if he didn't do if he felt that he would fall behind. and that was an eye-opening aspect in writing the story. usually film history says they had the great idea and they worked hard and they made great movies and that's how they were excess. but i found there was a whole other dimension of so to speak you have to shakeke hands with e devil. >> it's politics. politics is very restorative for us. this is a very left-wing play in

britain in response to a terrible moment in time during the aids crisis in the reagan revolution soaked there were two darknesses for me. one of them was just researching that time which i lived through. but people had friends dying of this mysterious plague and being abandoned by the society that is supposed to take care of them. it gets harder for while, you know so researching that history and finding the exact terrible part you want to include from william f. buckley. that was hard. there's that darkness and the other one is just like a lot of the people who originally worked on the play were hired and one ofrk them died. the people who work cast aside as putting it dramatically but those were cast aside as the play was going along its way and

they tried tovo look out for wht weren't the best interests of the play but there were a lot of human relationships that were challenged shelby say over the course of doing that. sometimes there is was a question about whether those folks would talk to us and it tried to do justice to their story. >> we ended up having a whole chapter in the book. some ofoo the people have that experience in the early years of putting what they believe to be their o wholesale into helping o develop this. it was just tony kushner scribbling on a cast of actors and directors putting collaborative effort in that it takes to make a creative work of art. they put their wholele souls ino theseso characters.

it's how should be representative in this play and decisions that and wrecked respect because the people they were placed with were amazing. at the samee time there's a community of people who is the pinnacle of our experience and a missed opportunity in their lives. >> it's fascinating. i'm interested in the origin of these myths. mostly interested in the book and how they came to be and oral history you did fees. can you talk about how you found her form whether you found the

stories, how did that work for each of you? the process of writing. >> for me it was my friendship with william fox's niece. she was the daughter of his young sister and there was a 25 year age gap between fox and his sister. angela had known william fox and he always kept his home in new york. she lived in california for several months every year so she knew him. she had many many stories and she also had preferences of stories that her mother told her. the angela was a freelance journalist as was i and we became friends. i would hear stories over and over again. she was a wonderful storyteller. for the longest time i assumed

william fox. his name was on the studio surely someone had done a biography of william vox and nobody had. the more i realized how important he wasto i came to believe he was the most important of all the studio founders for the depth and the breadth of his contributions. >> think you is overlooked? >> they think they are two reasons but one was he lost control of his companies and 1930. after he bought the controlling shares of stock in the parent company mgm he made that purchase in early 1929. when things didn't look so bad and then we know what comes in october of 1929. unfortunately c fox was in a serious car accident in the summer of 1929. he really didn't anticipate better prepare forpa it.

he borrowed $27 million in short term loans. hismi adversaries were backed by wall street and he was fighting with them over other issues. they decided we don't want the money back. we want control. after it battled in which he was basically pushed out he was essentially threatened if you don't give us control of fox theaters which at that time had about 1000 theaters we will destroy them. they started filing receivership lawsuits against him and he could see they were just going to smash these very profitable companies. they were at their height of prosperity at that point. fox to save his company handed over control.ag he believed the next generation of management would take care of them and they didn't.

they basically plundered o them. in my opinion he had to discredit him. he couldn't have been a great founder otherwise why would you push him out? fox theaters from the high-def its success was bankrupt in 1932 in fox film was so decimated financially that in 1935 it had to merge with 20th century pictures. i would say the main reason is it couldn't be that great for why did all these people come in and the second reason was he was very a proud person. he was not going to go begging for attention.

>> it had. transformative experiences with the play out. .. 7 and a half hours to watch, that it had a similarly epic origin story that would be fun to tell and we were right. and the question of forum i think isa more crucial one . this book is an oral history which is to say we the authors are not really in it. it's told through the voices of those 250 people we interviewed, a critics and historians and bad decision came to us pretty early on. it's