>> a hearing on the 2019 nasa budget. senator chris then hollen on the upcoming midterm elections. after that house oversight hearing on federal employees and union activity. later a senate hearing on financial cyber security. >> nasa administrator jim feinstein test on the 2019 budget request before a senate appropriations subcommittee. topics included some of nasa's planned missions to mars and the

moon. robotic servicing of satellites and the james webb space telescope that is being developed to understand the formation of the first galaxies and the early universe. this is 50 minutes. >> my hand will work as the gavel this afternoon. we will start a couple minutes early. both at 3:15 and so this will be similar hearing that we had last week under similar circumstances. good afternoon and i call his hearing to order. i'm pleased to be joined today by the acting ranking member of the subcommittee, senator shots. we chaired the subcommittee that he was ranking member of before i came here and he has followed me in this capacity and i look forward to working with you and your colleagues on this particular issue under justice, science, national aeronautics and space administration.

we are delighted to have you join us and look forward to the conversation in light of the time constraints i'm going to forgo an opening statement i now turn to the senator from hawaii. >> thank you, mr. chairman. it is good to be back with you chairman moran. thank you administrator terminate for being here. i and ask to enter my statement and ranking member shaheen into the record. >> without objection. >> administrator bridenstine we welcome your testimony. i think we have what you may have been instructed to make it abbreviated but we will have time for you and i encourage you to tell us what you'd like us to know and if we run into trouble we will cut our questions for you may want to go long. >> mr. chairman, mr. ranking member, it's an honor to be here. i have a submitted my written statement for the record and i

know because of the time constraints that we are short on time and i'd be happy to forgo an opening statement and just say this that i've been charged with leading one of the most storied agencies in the united states government. it is the honor of a lifetime and we are people doing very dangerous things even right now on the international space station and flying missions all over the world to deliver science and discovery not only on behalf of this nation but on behalf of the entire world. it's an honor and i am thrilled to be here. i look forward to answering your questions. >> secretary, before we turn to questions let me encourage you to tell us as a part of your statement the vision of the direction of nassau as reflected by its budget priorities. outline for us what you see happening based upon request of you and the administration for

the appropriations from our subcommittee. >> yes, mr. chairman, you are aware of space a policy directive one which is from the president of the united states and directing us to return to the moon and do it in a way that is sustainable in the long term. we have had in the past a number of different efforts to get back to the moon and since 1972 and in fact, we have been at the moon and we still are at the moon with orbiters and other capabilities. this president has said that getting back to the moon with the soft landings for the purpose of an eventual human is the objective to establish american leadership but also to develop science capabilities on the moon and utilize resources of the moon which is a new direction for this country and i think it's an important direction. as we utilize resources of the moon to ultimately take us to mars and beyond. that is a big policy direction

shift. i also want to be clear we are still going to mars as well. in fact, one of my first lunches as the administered was the insight launch which was the lander that is on its way to mars and we look forward to that and doing a soft landing on mars around the things giving timeframe and delivering science for an eventual human trip to mars. we are doing both and we are going to mars but were not taking our eyes off the so many other critical missions of nasa to include earth science, helio physics, astrophysics, planetary science with robotic landers and other things. i would say one of the presidents objectives and we seen a cement nasa transition act that is consistency a purpose and that as we go from one initiation to the other as we do these missions that we are

moving out in a compazine similar objectives to the previous and ministration but at the same time small ships here and there to reflect the priorities of this president. >> thing you very much, and ministry. thank you for joining us. i think this is your debut appearance as the administrator of nasa in front of our committee and i welcome you to your new position and i thank you for working to develop working relationship with the subcommittee and as we try to pursue things from a budget for review and advance the cause of science and space expiration. let me ask you about that balance. our committee has consistently look at studies that help us guide us in making decisions and in the process and obviously budgetary pressures on any agency but including nasa and how do you plan to maintain a

balance in the scientific portfolio between planetary missions, science, biophysics and astrophysics? how do you reach the conclusion to a the right ratio is of where our resources are to go in the mission of necessary? >> that is a great question. it's not an easy question to answer. we have, of course, within nasa the various divisions of science mission director we have a lot of critical important science missions going forward and from previous surveys, as a matter fact. what happens is when we take on some of these really big projects that i can give a few examples that is very salient right now is the james webb's telescope. we take on a project like that which is something nasa needs to do and we need to be at the

leading edge of technology pushing the edge of the envelope but when we take on a big project like that with brand-new technology and and we sometimes have overrun and in cost and that starts to impact parts of the science mission directorate. what we have to do going forward is the balance that we have across the different divisions we need to look at historically how those missions can sometimes potentially crowd out other missions and build architectures that deliver that same civilization changing science but maybe do it in a way where there is less risk involved. one way to do that would be to look more at missions that are say, $200 million or less, and lifecycle cost and instead of the 15 submission divided up between missions and then if one

gets behind schedule or over cost it doesn't impact the other missions currently underway. that is one way to develop architecture across the different science directors and that will not have such a massive impact on the balance of the portfolio within each one. >> perhaps more make a statement but maybe there's a question in this as well. you and i visited in my office one of the things that nasa provides no other agency and other federal program can do is to inspire people and often many times young people and young men and women to aspire to study science and mathematics and engineering and space i have this goal for my own stay-at-home in kansas which we determine ways to increase stem education we need an inspiration and something that captures people's minds and hearts and

nasa, in my view, like no other agency or program can do so. we talked about the budget request when you and i visited in person and it illuminates significant portion of that stem educational for nasa and something that i indicated that i find objectionable explain to me how this can be addressed in other ways but i would ask you, i guess, again what is your vision in view for how nasa can help educate and inspire another generation of individuals interested in science and in doing so of our nation economically advanced technology and to make certain that we are at the forefront of all

scientific educational advancements globally. nasa, in my view, has that mission. >> yes, chairman moran. i cannot agree with your assessment on the importance of education. i cannot agree with you more. i will say this about my own life that i was a young boy in sixth grade i had the opportunity to go to summer camp where i interacted with the wind tunnel for the first time. i learned about the bernoulli theory of flight and a spent a week playing with the wind tunnel and changing the shape of the wing and watch how it changed lift and was the summer before my sixth grade year. that impacted my life in an amazing way and from that point forward i knew that when i grew

up and was going to be a pilot. it was the way it was going to be so i had that personal experience myself. i can tell you as the was a time in my life when i was the director of the tulsa air and space museum and saw firsthand the impact that i had when i was a child and saw the impact on other children as well. fundamentally change the way they view themselves as what they wanted to beat when they grew up in the things they wanted to study i can tell you this -- there is no agency and the federal government they can do what nasa can do when it comes to inspiration as you have mentioned. of course, i've spent time at your museum and the cosmos fear in kansas and wonderful place and the scout troop that my son is a member of we got up there and spent a weekend studying the history and the technology and the capability of nasa and i believe, as you believe, that is critical for our nation and i will tell you this that the 2018

omnibus spending bill that just got passed a few months ago obviously offended the education and your answer right now is moving out to follow the requirements of that spending bill. it is also true that we have had to make difficult decisions in times of challenging financial times and this is one area where of course has been trimmed. what i will tell you is that nasa has -- been there for a month now and nasa has, in its dna, education. going back to the very beginning and it has in its dna inspiration. every day nasa is making historical achievements and everyday whether we want to or not we are inspiring children and changing lives.

i will tell you that we watch it and are committed to it. going forward each one of the mission directorate has the ability to affect education apart from that particular budget line and we will continue to do so. we have in fact just this week started an internship program with over 1600 young folks coming to nasa to determine whether or not they want to do this in their features. we are committed to education and committed to inspiration and i believe in it one 100%. of course nasa will do that regardless of that particular budget line. >> administrator, thank you. i would point out that your budget was committed prior to your confirmation and your budget was a minute prior to the fy 18 omnibus bill taken effect. you start from a new plane and i

do want to make sure that this is emphasized in our efforts and thank you for mentioning the cosmo fear and i look forward to return to kansas. i now organize the ranking member senator shatz. >> thank you, mr. chairman. thank you for being here. do you believe that greenhouse gases are the primary cause of climate change? >> yes. the nasa climate assessment that includes nasa and includes the department of energy and includes noah has clearly stated that it is extremely likely, as the language they use, extremely likely that human activity is the dominant cause of global warming and i have no reason to doubt the science the comes from

that. >> do you agree with the scientific consensus that includes many nasa researchers that the climate is changing as humans are the leading cause? >> yes. >> is a fair to call this an evolution of your views? >> yes. >> do you commit to supporting the funding independence and integrity of climate science at nasa? >> without question. >> thank you, and ministry. we have had multiple conversations both over the table and since then in person and on the phone and i want to recognize your evolution on this issue. i think it is essential for one of the premier science agencies of the federal government for you to abide by the science. it's especially important because as you know you're the first nasa administrator that was an elected official. russell the first nasa administered her with a essentially partisan confirmation vote and we needed to move through this period of ideological disagreement,

political disagreement and back to the point where the nasa administrator is a leader of the science agency and you can't lead a science agency if you are not grounded by the science. i thank you for that and i don't think it is easy i don't think it's easy to come to that conclusion. on the other hand what i have seen from you and from your interactions with you i have come to the conclusion that this is a true evolution and respect the people with whom you work and respect the science and you want the respect and there is no way to move forward if you are going to be undermining the science. i'm pleased to see the strange. i want to ask you about earth science nasa observations and science support resource managers and policymakers and i want to talk to you about the termination of carbon monitoring grant that we talked about, the $10 million. first of all, i object to this termination of those grants but second of all i understand that nasa doesn't number has numerous

lines of effort as it relates to carbon monitoring. talk about this grants and second talk about your commitment to carbon monitoring and earth science generally. >> yes. senators, when you think about the carbon cycle of the earth nasa has a number of different satellites currently that are taking into account how the earth is changing and how our climate is changing and how carbon ultimately plays into that. we have, right now we are spending over $100 million annually on measuring the carbon not only in the atmosphere but on the surface of the earth and in the oceans and other places. that is a critical piece of our earth science division within the science mission directorate. the carbon monitoring system

specifically was a grant program and $10 million every three years and about eight months ago we issued grants and so those grants will go through the year 2020 and that program in the 2018 budget request was not put into the president's budget request and it did not receive a line item in the appropriations process. i will tell you that nasa has a number of programs even going forward and the orbital carbon observatory is currently on orbit and the orbiting carbon observatory three we will launch in january. geo carb is another satellite that we are developing and soon will be launching to monitor carbon and there's a satellite called the eco- stress that does similar things. did i is another so the bottom

line, senator, your nasa is one 100% committed to understanding the carbon cycle which is an extremely high priority and you have my commitment that we will follow the guidance of those to cato surveys for the purpose of keeping it, as you said, a political, bipartisan, nonpartisan because the science must not be partisan. nasa is not a regulatory body and what we want to do is get the science. we want to get the data and make sure that we provide the data and that science to decision-makers who could ultimately make sure were doing the right thing to the nation in the world. you're my commitment that nasa will continue doing that activity and we are. >> thank you. >> senator shatz, picu, senator capito. >> i know you waited a while to get here so you are taking charge.

you and i talked about the facility in fairmont and i want to know -- i know you have been aware and are supportive of that but what do you might envision for the future where that applications might be more beneficial to nasa but also within the federal government. >> yes, ma'am. that's a wonderful question. the facility is currently partnering with a number of different agencies apart from nasa. i can think of the department of energy and the department of homeland security and of course we have nongovernment partners as well so we do utilize nasa to do governmental things that are broader than what nasa itself does. we want to continue doing that. we believe that we are a

national asset that can be utilized by a whole host of government and nongovernment functions. we want to make sure that when we do that we are not impacting nasa's mission so that is an important thing that i want to make sure that we don't impact and suspicions but certainly we see ourselves as a partner to the federal government at large. >> inc. you. last week nasa announced the team from west virginia university was selected to test the research insulated microgravity at the johnson space center. they will be able to deduct their experiments and a pool with the astronauts train for their spacewalk. this is a unique and tremendous opportunity for our students that you can imagine. it's part of nasa's education program. i continue to be frustrated that the imagination continues to call for the limitation of nasa office of education. i would suggest renaming it the office of inspiration because you are inspiring through this educational opportunities the next generation of science,

technology and interest in the space and lighting of a fire among young people. will you work with me to continue to emphasize inspiring the next generation are not sure if your comments on the limitation of the office of education? >> yes, ma'am. we had a lot of die gag and i know -- >> sorry. >> no, you're good. what is interesting is you renamed it the office of inspiration we been moving in that direction at the nasa headquarters but calling at the office of the stem engagement. when we called the office of education people get this idea that we are duplicating services of the department of education or other federal entities. what we do believe is that as you are aware nafta has and is unmatched in the federal government in its ability to inspire young folks and change lives and create the next

generation of scientists and engineers. nasa is exceptionally unique and that in fact you mentioned you had folks with the university of west virginia heading down to houston and so the university of west virginia has done amazing things with robotic return capabilities which will be used for robotic return of material from the margin surface and if i remember right west virginia won a massive prize and this was done by your students and it leads to more and greater technologies for that activity was about $750,000. >> that is correct. and they are working on the west virginia robotic technology center is working on the restore

l and working to refuel satellites in the lower orbit. let me just say if i could have less than a minute i think i share this with you when we talked trying to inspire the next generation of young women and particularly into the stem area i want to thank nasa because doctor peggy came to two elementary schools with me talked about her spacewalk and talked about how she's been in space longer than anybody else in history and she really inspired a lot of young girls that they and that is such a rich resource. i was standing there going to is anyone want to get into public service and no one would even look at me because they were crazy to listen to what it's like to be in space and to get into be up close and personable with such an inspirational figure. i hope the program continues and i hope that the resources you have their you will share with the next generation to inspire.

thank you for that. >> yes, ma'am. thank you. >> senator van: >> thank you. welcome. congratulations and i appreciate the chance to go over that with you and i want to thank you for the tone that you have taken ever since you were sworn in and i do want to underscore the comments of my colleagues and with respect to your commitment to following science and i think the employees at nasa appreciative the town hall meeting where we brought people together and committed to focusing on the mission. i appreciate your enthusiasm about the nasa mission which is a great american success story and for the world. i do want to also underscore the importance of the message we will focus on real science, not political science, including when it comes to organizing the climate changes been driven primarily by carbon emissions

generated by human activity. i'm glad we are all focused on the science. i also want to know you are not responsible for the budget that was submitted. it was our former colleague in the house and we can all go talk to mr. mulvaney but i want to echo concerns that have been raised by all of our colleagues here on a bipartisan basis. specifically with respect to significant concert in the earth science budget. very proud of the fact that maryland is home to nasa and we also share with virginia region the delaware region of space flight facility. on earth sciences and you and i spoke about this yesterday there is proposals to deep cuts aluminate the pace program and some other earth sciences program so if you could again talk about what you see as the

importance of those programs to the nasa mission. >> absolutely. a couple of things that i think are important to make sure because this is a bipartisan issue and want to keep it as bipartisan as i possibly can keep it. it's important for countries and for the world. the president's budget request for 2019 on the earth science side of the ledger was higher than three of the previous administrations budgets for science. it is tied with a fourth so it's right there in the middle historically of the last nine-ten years. i think it's a good budget. obviously, making difficult decisions in tough times we made

a determination that there are a couple programs that ultimately the highest priority. it is absolutely important to me as i know it's important to you that nasa follows the guidance of the survey. a brand-new survey came out in january of this year and that survey indicated that cleary oh and as you mentioned pace are high priorities for the national academy of sciences that created the survey so that being the case what we are doing right now within the earth science division of the mission director is we are evaluating that the cable survey and trying to make sure that were covering the science that they have called for us to cover and at the same time because of what the senate and house did for the 2018 on the bus we are moving forward with those programs. you mentioned and right now we are currently moving forward with those programs and as required by the omnibus of 2018 and so when we get to the point where were ready to present how

nasa sees the new to cato survey that just came out i'll be more than happy to come and review. we can make sure were in the sciencgetting all the science tt they called for. >> i appreciate that. i will probably submit for the record that there other programs that nasa is on a pathbreaking mission for refueling and a number of other programs including discover but if i could just use my remainder of the time to talk about wallops because i know you recently visited wallops. if you could talk about why the flight facility is an important asset for nasa. >> absolutely. just a few days ago i was out there preceding a launch to the international space system and for the spacecraft that was

supplying for the international space station. it's critical asset and helps us maintain our leadership in the world on the international space station. of course, there is a number of different sounding rockets are launched from there for the purposes of weather research and climate research and a whole host of other capabilities. it is also true that there are a number of aircraft out there and former navy aircraft, there is a p3 that is importantly using lidar to measure how thick are the ice sheets in the arctic and on the north pole and in fact recently we had amazingly brave pilot flying over the north pole and flying over greenland and over the north atlantic and

flying over alaska measuring the thickness of the ice using lidar, laser radar, if you will. the capabilities that are coming from that of course are informing helping us understand how the cryo- spirit is changing and the ice on the surface and how that affects the rest of the planet. those missions are important and we have nasa pilots are taking grace risk upon themselves to accomplish that science and all of that is being done from wallops. on the restore al, if i have time, i like to address that if it is okay, chairman. this is important. robotic servicing for our country is a critical capability that we need to have for a whole host of strategic reasons. very soon a number of commercial satellite operators will be launching into lower earth's orbit with thousands of satellites for medications. historically satellites, when they die, we either try to bring them out of orbit or supersede

the meaning we put them into a deep orbit that gets out of the way. on top of all of that some satellites don't work and they die. then they become orbital debris and we have had collisions and we've had reports that indicate in the radium cosmos collision in 2009 the created 5000 pieces of orbital debris those kinds of collisions will continue to happen every five-nine years. we have to make sure we don't do that. orbital servicing of satellites robotic servicing is a critical capability and nasa is committed to it and we want to make sure that were doing it in a way that we can bury and robustly serve to mitigate the orbital debris problem and keep our satellites on orbit longer and make use of that capabilities.

you have that commitment for me that will do that activity. >> thank you. i look forward to working with you. thank you, mr. chairman. >> thank you, senator. i will suggest a modified second round of questions. we have other senators who are expected to arrive and welcome the senator from alaska but in the absence of a new arrival those who are here or will remain here have additional questions till approximately 3:15 and i now recognize the senator from alaska, senator murkowski. >> thank you, mr. chairman. i appreciate it. administrator, nice to see you. i thank you bring a refreshing view of expanding commercial space operations to the four here and look forward to having conversation about what can be done to help lower cost and increase capability for nasa by increasing some of the partnerships and utilizing the capabilities that are offered by the private sector for space

access and operations. we have, in alaska, as you know, some opportunities with civic space complex in kodiak by the alaskan aerospace corporation and can you share with me how you view the potential non- federal spaceport second provide the orbital and suborbital launch capabilities that may fit into future nasa programs and operations. >> yes, senator. nasa is committed to getting more science and more data than we've ever been able to get before and we are able to do that now because there are commercial partners providing data and lowering orbit and imagery as well as publications and all kinds of different sensors are being launched

commercially. they will provide capabilities that have nothing to do with nasa specifically but what that means is that we have the ability as an agency to purchase commercially access to space and to purchase commercially data from other people that are accessing space for other reasons. the way i see it, ma'am, going forward the miniaturization of electronics and the reusability of rockets and unprecedented access to space in the coming years and a facility like kodiak will be a beneficiary of that capability. as an agency that we don't do is when we want to launch commercially and we are going to be launching commercially we do launch commercially a whole host of small satellites to do science and of course even universities are building satellites on her behalf and the more we do that activity the

better data and the more data we receive. what we don't do is tell our partners where to launch from but a healthy, small launch market, medium class market launch is what we want as a nation strategically beyond nasa but beyond our nation strategically and of course kodiak could be a great player in that. >> imagine there's a lot of potential we recognize out there and these emerging small launch vehicle operator have some great opportunities i think to expand our space launch market and bring back some of that launch business that we been seen overseas. hopefully you share that same view of opportunity for how we might proceed with that. let me ask about your plans, if any, to work with federal or nonfederal to help streamline the satellite regulations and

the lunches that would help provide improved broadband infrastructure for rural areas. this is of course a great interest in the north and particularly the howard high north we see this as that opportunity that will really help the buildout our capacity in these remote and rural cause areas and can you speak to that? >> absolutely. it would be my honor to speak to it. historically when we talk about medications from space it's been done from geostationary orbit. anything about directv and dish network even communication satellites for internet for states for example that's done from geostationary orbit which is 33000 kilometers from the earth and highest orbit the upside is that they don't move and then relative to the moving to the earth and the stays --

the downside is there is latency and the time for the signal to travel all the way out to geostationary orbit so what is happening now is a lot of us and i know you're excited about the idea that we've got antennas now that are electronically steerable which means a flat antenna like this notepad would be on someone's house and in lower earth orbit when the satellites are currently coming over the horizon and can't just have your satellite dish locked to one satellite you got to be tracking one satellite and sharing information back and forth and other satellites are coming by and you have to pick those up. electronically steerable satellite antennas are a huge technology breakthrough that are now being commercialized which enables us to do this. take the satellites and geostationary orbits and bring them to lower earth orbit.

this is not necessarily tied to nasa but it is tied to a commercial, robust commercial workplace for communications to point where if we can get it down to lower earth orbit these constellations and the thousands of satellites the latency goes down to the point where you can use the exact same way forms as a cell phone and so now we've got potentially thousands of cell towers in lower earth orbit than any of us can access and you can have portable bandwidth that if there is 100,000 people descending on one part of the country maybe there's a convention in anchorage or something that you could steer the bandwidth to make sure that no one gets blocked out from being able to use their cell phones. this changes how we understand communication on planet earth. i, for example, could be on an aircraft carrier which i have been in the middle of the pacific ocean with no access to

any internet connectivity and all of a sudden it's these constellations get built i would have access immediately, instantaneously. that is transformative. obviously in rural alaska that is a big game changer. >> game changer. >> absolutely. it's a game changer from my old constituents in oklahoma for example. what senator van hollen was talking about robotic servicing that's where those satellites in lower earth orbit with a robust commercial and robotic servicing capability those satellites would generally come out of orbit in five or ten years because there are trace atmosphere in those lower earth orbits. with robotic servicing he can boost the satellite and even change the technology on the satellite to increase capacity to get more data than we've ever gone before and data rates are continuing to increase and it's all about getting more gigabits every second through input and there are a lot of opportunities and nasa wants to be a partner.

that is why robotic servicing is so important we intend to do that. >> exciting. thank you, mr. chairman. >> administrator, we talked about a number of us have written about the topic of education. we take this to the university level and let me do that by talking a moment about the aeronautics aspect of a nasa. nasa, for example, is currently working on a low sonic boom aircraft that is expected to shorten fight times across the country and to destinations around the world. research is done with the faa on traffic management and on integration of piloted and un- piloted vehicles into the airspace and advanced material evidence and characterization will lead to safer, cleaner, more fuel-efficient aircraft. kansas and oklahoma is an aircraft aviation and we are a state that dominate what we do for a living. i want to know your view as to

the role the universities can play in being a partner with nasa in regard to aeronautics. what is desperate what do you expect to happen and how can i be of help to you in that regard? >> that is another wonderful? we see universities as a great opportunity to help us do the research necessary to get more advanced materials and composites for example and i know kansas you in kansas are big into composite repair and composite manufacturing and i know the aeronautics mission is working through an advanced composite with wichita and inconsistent with aerosystems to put together a consortium of research which is the university and manufacturing which is

aerosystems and that partnership along with nasa's some of our brilliant engineers put together an ability frustrated had technologically when it comes to manufacturing aircraft and creating lighter materials that ultimately increase fuel efficiency and improve innovation in our country and make us more competitive in the world. i think that partnership is solid and i think we need to do more of that activity and are supported. >> i appreciate your answer. as i arrived in this chairmen to start committee one of the things that captured my attention in my imagination is the web telescope. it has had its challenges and i am interested in knowing what you see as its history but more importantly we see as its future. there's been a lot of attention

paid to it by congress and gao and the contractor and what do you see forthcoming despite some of the challenges that the telescope is that? >> yes, chairman, that's a challenge that we have and i want to start by saying this and i believe this. with james webb's space telescope another thing nasa does what we ought to be doing is saying at the very leading edge of technology when james webb's space. launches we will seat back to the beginning of the universe and that is an amazing capability that all of us are anxiously anticipating. that being said is important as that mission is in is critical to nasa and the night stays in the world it is had its

challenges because we are at that very leading edge of technology. the impact there had been a number of challenges and you start with the fact that the thrusters were one of the issues that we have is the thrusters were cleaned with a solvent that was not the right solvent and that damaged some of the seals and ultimately required us to go develop new thrusters and build new thrusters and fix busters and the sun shield that was on it in the ability to unfolded and folded back together and tested that has proven more challenging than i think was anticipated and that has set us back in terms of time and budget. we are with our challenges with the james webb space telescope but looking at the impact for

2019 i don't think the impact is that significant because instead of doing operations because you have a budget for operations for james webb will use that operation budget for development and that is not a good thing. i'd rather use it for operations but the reality is for the 2019 budget i don't think it's that big of an impact and not that big of an impact for 2020 for that same reason. the biggest challenge i have and i will probably have to come back and talk is there is a potential they don't want to get ahead of myself busy don't know yet but i might need to come back and talk to you because there's a funding limit on the james webb space telescope set at $8 billion. if the development cost go beyond that we will come back to congress and get reauthorized to continue the mission. i would say that at this point we spent so much money and have come so far and come so close that it's important that we do that and it will testify to that but i'm here to tell you that i don't know if that 8 billion-dollar mark or not. the good thing is we have an independent review that is underway right now by a person

who is exceptionally good at this kind of activity and he and his team will report to us in to you on the status of the james webb here in june. that report comes out we are going to have to come to a meeting of the minds and figure out how we go forward with this program, if indeed we do need to go above the a billion-dollar capital set by congress. >> thank you for your testimony. senator van mullen. >> thank you, mr. chairman. i was checking off on the telescope and you are right we've had setbacks and i hope the independent review gets to the bottom of that but as i understand your test money you are a 100% committed to getting this program to completion and fulfilling the mission, is that right? >> without question the other

question i had to one of the recommendations that come out of the decadal survey and we talked about this a little bit yesterday and the top priority in the large project in the 2010 national research council decadal survey of astronomy at the six is the y field infrared survey telescope, could you talk about why the decadal survey made that a priority and the importance of that mission. >> absolutely. when we think about these big projects like the james webb space telescope and the w first space telescope these are opportunities for us -- we are talking about programs that have a finite lifetime. when the end of the james webb happens we need to have something that can come next. that needs to push the edge a

little further than the previous. i certainly understand all of that in one of the challenges we have is because when we do these flagship programs that take a big chunk of what the decadal survey is wanting in terms of science and if you take 60% of the budget that we have to do in one particular mission that puts us in a difficult spot for all of our other missions. when we think about w first, first of all, we are following through on the omnibus of 2018 and we are looking at the cost of going forward and were committed to not have the same thing that we had to james webb.

that is where we are going forward. when we think of decadal surveys going forward we might want to consider disturbing the risk among more smaller projects rather than one massive project that can clobber an entire division within the nasa budget. >> i look forward to continuing the conversation but they give. >> senator shatz, thank you for filling the role of raking member today. administrator bridenstine, thank you for your testimony. our votes have been called and i would ask you if you would give a moment after the hearing i like to spend a minute with you. >> yes, sir. >> i would announce that our subcommittee will have its markup at 2:30 on june 12 that will include nasa but a full array of issues within our subcommittee jurisdiction and two days later june 14th the full committee is scheduled to meet to do markup of this and other appropriation bills. with that there are no further questions this afternoon. senators may submit different questions for the official hearing record and we request that nasa respond to those questions within 30 days.

the subcommittee now stands in reason subject to call the cha chair. is that the right word? [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudibleve